To add comments or start new threads please go to the full version of: Everything Is Electromagnetic Theoretically
PhysForum Science, Physics and Technology Discussion Forums > Relativity, Quantum Mechanics and New Theories > Relativity, Quantum Mechanics, New Theories

Nick
A fellow board member here, Solid State Universe, claimed to me that everything is electromagnetic.

I beg to differ. The Nuetron isn't.

MITCH RAEMSCH -- FORGIVE ME SOLID STATE UNIVERSE --
AlphaNumeric
Bishadi claims it too.

While I disagree with them, I would point out that the neutron does have charged components and so has a magnetic moment etc.
Nick
QUOTE (AlphaNumeric+May 17 2007, 07:19 AM)
Bishadi claims it too.

While I disagree with them, I would point out that the neutron does have charged components and so has a magnetic moment etc.

IS A NEUTRON ITS COMPONENTS OR IS IT AN INDEPENDENT ENTITY IN ITS OWN RIGHT?



AS IF I DON'T KNOW. tongue.gif

MITCH RAEMSCH -- LIGHT FELL --
regallow
A neutron is not stable when it is removed from a nucleus; it decays into an electron, a proton, and an antineutrino. To consider a neutron an independent entity in its own right is inappropriate, since it appears to consist of other stable and less energetic particles.

I don't know Solid State Universe's electromagnetic-based theory, but here's my own (after a little background). It allows for electromagnetic and gravitational forces but not the weak and strong forces.

EVERY subatomic particle that has been physically detected is either an electron, positron, proton, antiproton, neutrino, antineutrino, or photon (which is its own antiparticle), or an unstable combination of those. There are no exceptions.

Quarks and antiquarks have never been (to my knowledge) physically observed, but all of the others above have been separately detected and measured. Some deep inelastic scattering results indicate charges are one-third (or a multiple of one-third) of what they should be, while elastic scattering at lower energies show the charges to be normal. Quarks are used to account for these deep inelastic scattering results that don't agree with Coulomb's Law. That is done by modeling the proton as an assemblage of three quarks, two Up quarks (each with charge +2/3) and one Down quark with a charge of -1/3.

Then it becomes necessary to explain how these three quarks are held together as one proton, which itself is a completely stable particle when separated from all other matter. The strong force is used to explain a proton's stability and the stability of atomic nuclei. Rudimentary quantum mechanics explains forces in terms of force-carrying particles rather than fields, so gluons are added to the model as carriers of the strong force. Electromagnetic force is carried by photons in that model, and some radioactive decay is explained by a weak nuclear force carried by W and Z bosons. Gravity is carried by gravitons in that model. This is my simplified attempt to explain some of the Standard Model in its basic form. Being simplified, it leaves out a whole lot but hopefully isn't misleading.

So the main tasks that must be done in order to create an electromagnetic alternative to the Standard Model are the following:

1. Provide a testable electromagnetic model of the electron, positron, proton, and antiproton in electromagnetic terms. I've done that (see A new model...). Photons are purely electromagnetic, so they don't have to be redefined. That leaves neutrinos, antineutrinos, quarks, and gluons to be explained electromagnetically. Plus the weak and strong forces, and if you REALLY want to get rid of it, gravity.

2. Show that tests support the model in (1). Someone else will hopefully perform valid testing of my model. Anyone else's model would need to be tested as well.

3. Explain in electromagnetic terms the results of deep inelastic scattering. My model (1 above) results in particles that appear to have a charge of 1 from a distance but a charge of 1/3 at their radius (plus or minus charge depending on the particle). Remodeling deep inelastic scattering results, using a modified Rutherford scattering formula with my particle model, could result in a completely electromagnetic match between theory and experiment. That would result in support for the electromagnetic proton model in (1) and would drop the need for Up and Down quarks and gluons as they relate to the proton. The evidence for other quarks would have to be explained electromagnetically, as well.

4. Explain how a neutron or antineutron is held together electromagnetically and explain its mass, spin, charge of 0, and magnetic moment. I might never work on that problem to its completion. I can, however, explain the neutron's charge, and explain its observed magnetic moment in reasonably simple terms with my electron and proton models with an accuracy of 0.999864330. That analysis provides some clues regarding how the neutron can be electromagnetically structured. If modeled electromagnetically, that would eliminate the primary evidence for the weak force.

5. Explain neutrinos and antineutrinos in electromagnetic terms. I have two possible explanations. They could be, as someone else has stated, partial photons that do not conform to E=hf and therefore do not normally get absorbed by electrons, protons, their antiparticles, or composite particles. Alternatively they could be pure kinetic energy. My current speculative model of a neutron includes some funky (technical term) internal movement and an interaction with surrounding space that causes the center of mass to move in a loop. That could lead to linear movement of the center of mass when a proton breaks apart.

6. Explain how atomic nuclei can be held together electromagnetically. That would eliminate the need for the strong force. My belief is that the modified coulomb field of electrons and protons in my model, plus some coulombic inbalances within neutrons, change the electromagnetic interactions enough between nucleic particles to allow stability. I may never try to model nuclei in detail.

7. Explain gravity in electromagnetic terms. I believe gravity is part of a triumvirate of forces: electric, magnetic, and gravitational. Hence I would not get rid of it but it might be possible to explain gravity as an effect created by the presence of electric and/or magnetic energy. The fact that the Poynting (and velocity) vector of a photon is always in the direction of ExH, that a photon always moves at c in free space, and that it has energy and relativistic mass seem to be clues to the interrelationship between gravity and the other two forces. Gravity, in my opinion, might be modeled within the framework of a modified set of Maxwell's equations. But then, you would have to drop the quantum concept of force carrier virtual particles and revert to the use of field theories.

Quantum mechanics would survive as a very effective shorthand way of dealing with interactions between particles, but it would not play a significant role in defining the internal structure of particles.
Zephir
QUOTE (Nick+May 17 2007, 06:38 AM)
A fellow board member here, Solid State Universe, claimed to me that everything is electromagnetic. I beg to differ. The neutron isn't.

The neutrino as well, it hasn't even apparent magnetic moment.
regallow
QUOTE (regallow+May 18 2007, 03:01 AM)
5.  .....  That could lead to linear movement of the center of mass when a proton breaks apart.

I meant to say neutron, not proton. My brain doesn't function properly at 3am. Sleep is good.
IAMoraes
QUOTE (Nick+May 16 2007, 11:38 PM)
A fellow board member here, Solid State Universe, claimed to me that everything is electromagnetic

I have no objections either way but where is the link to SSU's page? I saw it once but it's way over my knowledge level. Maybe we should take a second look.

(right off the top of my head: he is right)
czeslaw
The space has its vacuum energy and there are charged particle-antiparticle.
The photon as the entity id neutra but it is an electromagnetic wave.

every particles are built of charged quarks. A neutral atom is build of charged proton and electron.

The neutrino has no charge only but what is that ? We do not know much about the neutrino.
LearmSceince
QUOTE (regallow+May 18 2007, 08:01 AM)
EVERY subatomic particle that has been physically detected is either an electron, positron, proton, antiproton, neutrino, antineutrino, or photon (which is its own antiparticle), or an unstable combination of those.  There are no exceptions.

What about the Muon, Tau, Omega Minus, hundreds of kinds of mesons, W's and Z?

QUOTE (czeslaw+)

every particles are built of charged quarks.

Leptons and bosons are not made of quarks. Examples include the photon, electron, and neutrino.

QUOTE (Nick with the broken caplock+)

IS A NEUTRON ITS COMPONENTS OR IS IT AN INDEPENDENT ENTITY IN ITS OWN RIGHT?


It depends on the energy scale. For atomic and nuclear physics, you can consider it its own thing. In particular, it has no dipole electric moment (think about that).
fivedoughnut
Ahoy, Neutrons ?


I've a notion, much of the nature of the universe / multiverse is derived from
mutual co-existence of energy. I feel the governing factor for this 'harmony' to be found in prime numbers.

A neutron (extra-nuclear), which in my model is a binary wavicle i.e, an electronic wavicle which encapsulates a much smaller protonic wavicle. Both share a common "frame of reference" with regards to their auto generated singularities, although the intrinsic harmonic incompatability of this structure allows for only around 15 minutes of union before the electron is "evicted".

In the nucleus of atoms, stability of the neutron might somehow result from 'frequency buffering' of the electronic wavicle from adjacent protons, allowing long lasting compatabilty; the electron wavicle frequency (with regards to the proton) is stationed at a relative prime value; it may be this that allows my binary system supposition to defy the Pauli Exclusion principle..... thinking more about Pauli's little gem .... pehaps this is all to do with primes too.
PhysOrg scientific forums are totally dedicated to science, physics, and technology. Besides topical forums such as nanotechnology, quantum physics, silicon and III-V technology, applied physics, materials, space and others, you can also join our news and publications discussions. We also provide an off-topic forum category. If you need specific help on a scientific problem or have a question related to physics or technology, visit the PhysOrg Forums. Here you’ll find experts from various fields online every day.
To quit out of "lo-fi" mode and return to the regular forums, please click here.