Whether or not Global Warming is true, and whether or not we really are running out of fossil fuels, finding alternative sources of energy that have lower environmental and economic impacts simply makes sense.
One of the forerunners in the current search for alternative fuels is Ethanol, otherwise known as grain alcohol. Ethanol can be manufactured by fermentation with no dependence on fossil fuels, has an energy density of about 2/3 that of gasoline, and is perceived to have favorable environmental impact since it has lower combustion byproducts.
There are currently two main crops used to produce ethanol: corn, and cane sugar. The increasing use of ethanol made from corn is causing an increase in global food costs. Cane sugar seems to be a better source, providing almost 6 times the EROEI of corn ethanol, but promoting this source could result in farmers growing sugar cane at the expense of corn, resulting in similar price inflation.
Ethanol cannot be used in our current engines except as a blend with gasoline. When the gasoline runs out, we will be left with engines that have no fuel.
My proposed alternative is algae-based biofuel, specifically biogasoline. It has an energy density approximately equal to gasoline, and can use the existing distribution infrastructure. Manufacture of algae-based fuels does not significantly impact farmland usage, and can be used fed our dirty sewage water. Additionally, it can be used in existing gasoline engines.
It is my opinion that the United States should discourage the use of ethanol, and should instead promote research and production of biogasoline. This will prevent us from being left high and dry if and when the oil runs out.
I am considering starting an effort to make this policy change happen here in the United States, and I'm curious what level of support I might expect to receive.
Thanks in advance for any and all feedback.
Dabeer
Not if the alcohol is made from non food/waste products(sawdust/wheat chaff, etc) are used to make it. Otherwise, it will affect food prices too much.
Grumpy
Not if the alcohol is made from non food/waste products(sawdust/wheat chaff, etc) are used to make it. Otherwise, it will affect food prices too much.
Grumpy
QUOTE (Grumpy+Jun 2 2008, 05:48 PM)
Dabeer
Not if the alcohol is made from non food/waste products(sawdust/wheat chaff, etc) are used to make it. Otherwise, it will affect food prices too much.
Grumpy
I think you're referring to ethanol from cellulose, which is currently not economical - it costs more to make because it is harder to break down the cellulose. I'm not horrendously opposed to this type of ethanol production, but I don't think companies will willingly abandon the more economical corn and cane sugar methods just to protect food prices.
Just to clarify your position, would you support an effort to discourage ethanol use in the USA?
Not if the alcohol is made from non food/waste products(sawdust/wheat chaff, etc) are used to make it. Otherwise, it will affect food prices too much.
Grumpy
I think you're referring to ethanol from cellulose, which is currently not economical - it costs more to make because it is harder to break down the cellulose. I'm not horrendously opposed to this type of ethanol production, but I don't think companies will willingly abandon the more economical corn and cane sugar methods just to protect food prices.
Just to clarify your position, would you support an effort to discourage ethanol use in the USA?
Dabeer,
You might check out these people, if you haven't already;
http://www.ethanol.org/
http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/story?id=45323
While I agree with you that doing something is better than doing nothing regarding alternatives, politics, big business and apathy seem to be getting in the way.
You might check out these people, if you haven't already;
http://www.ethanol.org/
http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/story?id=45323
While I agree with you that doing something is better than doing nothing regarding alternatives, politics, big business and apathy seem to be getting in the way.
QUOTE (xtrmn8r+Jun 2 2008, 07:05 PM)
Dabeer,
You might check out these people, if you haven't already;
http://www.ethanol.org/
http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/story?id=45323
While I agree with you that doing something is better than doing nothing regarding alternatives, politics, big business and apathy seem to be getting in the way.
What I'd like to do is make a political move, possibly a petition or letter-writing campaign, possibly even write a draft bill once enough support is indicated, to discourage the use of ethanol in the USA. I know ethanol seems to have worked for Brazil, but now that it's gone global I don't think the world can support it (unless cellulose ethanol becomes viable).
As you said, resistance from big business will be a huge hurdle to overcome, but I think it's worth the effort.
You might check out these people, if you haven't already;
http://www.ethanol.org/
http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/story?id=45323
While I agree with you that doing something is better than doing nothing regarding alternatives, politics, big business and apathy seem to be getting in the way.
What I'd like to do is make a political move, possibly a petition or letter-writing campaign, possibly even write a draft bill once enough support is indicated, to discourage the use of ethanol in the USA. I know ethanol seems to have worked for Brazil, but now that it's gone global I don't think the world can support it (unless cellulose ethanol becomes viable).
As you said, resistance from big business will be a huge hurdle to overcome, but I think it's worth the effort.
QUOTE (Dabeer+Jun 2 2008, 10:07 PM)
I think you're referring to ethanol from cellulose, which is currently not economical - it costs more to make because it is harder to break down the cellulose. I'm not horrendously opposed to this type of ethanol production, but I don't think companies will willingly abandon the more economical corn and cane sugar methods just to protect food prices.
Just to clarify your position, would you support an effort to discourage ethanol use in the USA?
Grumpy's right - let's genetically engineer super-microbes which efficiently convert waste cellulose into ethanol - generally speaking; a lot of people do not bother recycling their old newspapers etc, but if stuff like this could be collected/ taken away to a conversion plant, & in return, those who donate would receive money-off fuel vouchers etc, proportional to their contributions - Imagine how popular this would be!
Just to clarify your position, would you support an effort to discourage ethanol use in the USA?
Grumpy's right - let's genetically engineer super-microbes which efficiently convert waste cellulose into ethanol - generally speaking; a lot of people do not bother recycling their old newspapers etc, but if stuff like this could be collected/ taken away to a conversion plant, & in return, those who donate would receive money-off fuel vouchers etc, proportional to their contributions - Imagine how popular this would be!
QUOTE (Sec+Jun 3 2008, 01:37 AM)
Grumpy's right - let's genetically engineer super-microbes which efficiently convert waste cellulose into ethanol - generally speaking; a lot of people do not bother recycling their old newspapers etc, but if stuff like this could be collected/ taken away to a conversion plant, & in return, those who donate would receive money-off fuel vouchers etc, proportional to their contributions - Imagine how popular this would be!
While agree that better, more economical ways to convert waste cellulose into ethanol would be a very good thing, and definitely worthy of more research, I still have problems with ethanol as the final solution.
1. Existing engines cannot run off on pure ethanol. The vast majority of our vehicles would have to be replaced or retrofitted to run on pure ethanol.
2. The energy density of ethanol is 2/3 that of gasoline. Our tanks would be larger, our driving distances smaller, and our fill-ups more frequent.
3. The existing supply and distribution systems are inadequate for dealing with pure ethanol. While they might not need to be completely replaced, significant overhauls would need to be performed.
I also have issues with our use of ethanol as a gasoline additive.
1. Ethanol contributes to higher hydrocarbon emissions, and thus pollution. (This is from wikipedia, and is uncited, as of yet I have been unable to confirm it).
2. Ethanol reduces the amount of energy in each gallon of fuel, requiring more frequent trips to the pump.
I do agree that ethanol is better than MBTE as an oxygenate, but an even better solution would be to eliminate the need for an oxygenate in the first place. Increase the standards for gasoline quality, and the need for an oxygenate decreases.
While agree that better, more economical ways to convert waste cellulose into ethanol would be a very good thing, and definitely worthy of more research, I still have problems with ethanol as the final solution.
1. Existing engines cannot run off on pure ethanol. The vast majority of our vehicles would have to be replaced or retrofitted to run on pure ethanol.
2. The energy density of ethanol is 2/3 that of gasoline. Our tanks would be larger, our driving distances smaller, and our fill-ups more frequent.
3. The existing supply and distribution systems are inadequate for dealing with pure ethanol. While they might not need to be completely replaced, significant overhauls would need to be performed.
I also have issues with our use of ethanol as a gasoline additive.
1. Ethanol contributes to higher hydrocarbon emissions, and thus pollution. (This is from wikipedia, and is uncited, as of yet I have been unable to confirm it).
2. Ethanol reduces the amount of energy in each gallon of fuel, requiring more frequent trips to the pump.
I do agree that ethanol is better than MBTE as an oxygenate, but an even better solution would be to eliminate the need for an oxygenate in the first place. Increase the standards for gasoline quality, and the need for an oxygenate decreases.
Draw up a petition and I'll gladly sign it. I like the idea of encouraging recycling with fuel vouchers Sec, but I don't know much about the conversion of such materials and its current potential for applicability. You don't have to go very deep into non cane based ethanol before you risk expending more energy in making it than you from its use. Politicians have used ethanol to lull the public into thinking that ravenous attempts are being made to control the fuel situation.
I'm a hydrogen man myself and I think that's where our research dollars should be spent.
I'm a hydrogen man myself and I think that's where our research dollars should be spent.
QUOTE
Renova Energy ships Ethanol for Indy Car Series
indy race car, indy ethanolThe 2006 series IndyCar series used a blend of 90 percent methanol and 10 percent methanol and in 2007 the series began using Ethanol 100. The Indy Racing League (IRL) and Honda (the IRL's sole engine provider) ran extensive tests using 100 percent ethanol in the 3.5-liter, V-8 engines. According to a senior technical director for the IndyCar Series, testing in the new engine has yielded impressive results, and the transition has been flawless. Renova Energy is the provider of 100 percent fuel-grade ethanol for the IndyCar® Series. The IndyCar series is the first in motorsports to feature a renewable fuel source, in 2007. The series held its first Open Test of the alternative race fuel at Daytona International Speedway during the Jan. 31-Feb. 1 race sessions. The 17-race IndyCar Series season opens March 24 under the lights at Homestead-Miami Speedway. The schedule runs through September, with the Indianapolis 500 on May 26.
indy race car, indy ethanolThe 2006 series IndyCar series used a blend of 90 percent methanol and 10 percent methanol and in 2007 the series began using Ethanol 100. The Indy Racing League (IRL) and Honda (the IRL's sole engine provider) ran extensive tests using 100 percent ethanol in the 3.5-liter, V-8 engines. According to a senior technical director for the IndyCar Series, testing in the new engine has yielded impressive results, and the transition has been flawless. Renova Energy is the provider of 100 percent fuel-grade ethanol for the IndyCar® Series. The IndyCar series is the first in motorsports to feature a renewable fuel source, in 2007. The series held its first Open Test of the alternative race fuel at Daytona International Speedway during the Jan. 31-Feb. 1 race sessions. The 17-race IndyCar Series season opens March 24 under the lights at Homestead-Miami Speedway. The schedule runs through September, with the Indianapolis 500 on May 26.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| Renova Energy ships Ethanol for Indy Car Series indy race car, indy ethanolThe 2006 series IndyCar series used a blend of 90 percent methanol and 10 percent methanol and in 2007 the series began using Ethanol 100. The Indy Racing League (IRL) and Honda (the IRL's sole engine provider) ran extensive tests using 100 percent ethanol in the 3.5-liter, V-8 engines. According to a senior technical director for the IndyCar Series, testing in the new engine has yielded impressive results, and the transition has been flawless. Renova Energy is the provider of 100 percent fuel-grade ethanol for the IndyCar® Series. The IndyCar series is the first in motorsports to feature a renewable fuel source, in 2007. The series held its first Open Test of the alternative race fuel at Daytona International Speedway during the Jan. 31-Feb. 1 race sessions. The 17-race IndyCar Series season opens March 24 under the lights at Homestead-Miami Speedway. The schedule runs through September, with the Indianapolis 500 on May 26. |
2. Ethanol reduces the amount of energy in each gallon of fuel, requiring more frequent trips to the pump.
Indy ran on 100% Ethanol this year, so I'd think Ethanol as an alternative fuel is viable, even if production efficiency needs improvement.
QUOTE (nobody+Jun 3 2008, 01:14 PM)
Indy ran on 100% Ethanol this year, so I'd think Ethanol as an alternative fuel is viable, even if production efficiency needs improvement.
Indy runs engines that are designed for that type of fuel. They run at very high speeds and with very high compression ratios. Ethanol is appropriate for this type of engine.
To convert America's fleet of gasoline engines to ethanol engines would require a significant investment and would result in significant waste (all the old engines have to be disposed of somehow).
Additionally, 100% Ethanol has not been approved as a motor fuel in the USA.
However, even if this were done, you are still left with commuter vehicles running high-performance engines - completely inappropriate, in my opinion.
Indy runs engines that are designed for that type of fuel. They run at very high speeds and with very high compression ratios. Ethanol is appropriate for this type of engine.
To convert America's fleet of gasoline engines to ethanol engines would require a significant investment and would result in significant waste (all the old engines have to be disposed of somehow).
Additionally, 100% Ethanol has not been approved as a motor fuel in the USA.
However, even if this were done, you are still left with commuter vehicles running high-performance engines - completely inappropriate, in my opinion.
QUOTE (DuzmA+Jun 3 2008, 02:09 PM)
I'm a hydrogen man myself and I think that's where our research dollars should be spent.
Bah!
Hydrogen is a method of storing energy, not an energy source. And quite frankly, its much easier to handle hydrogen when its dangling off the ends or side of a carbon chain.
Bah!
Hydrogen is a method of storing energy, not an energy source. And quite frankly, its much easier to handle hydrogen when its dangling off the ends or side of a carbon chain.
support.
Down here we have ethanol powered buses, and the exhaust fumes actually smell quite pleasant
Down here we have ethanol powered buses, and the exhaust fumes actually smell quite pleasant
And in Brazil, cars running from ethanol smell nothing at all, so they probably don't exhaust any hydrocarbons. The oxygen atom in ethanol works rather against hydrocarbons.
About gas versus food:
We're in trouble this year, not because Chinese and Indians eat more or differently, neither because of the tiny amount of food converted to ethanol, but because we've produced less.
Australia (the third exporter I think) only produced half the usual quantites this years. The same happened last year. For lack of rain. Ethanol production is negligible in comparison.
Spain produced less last year, and this year is just catastrophic, for lack of rain. The EU has been a net importer or cereals last year for the very first time.
So:
Scarce food is a consequence of bad weather, not of ethanol.
These figures are very easy to check, and I fear we hear other explanations for dishonest reasons.
But hey, weather doesn't mean climate!
About gas versus food:
We're in trouble this year, not because Chinese and Indians eat more or differently, neither because of the tiny amount of food converted to ethanol, but because we've produced less.
Australia (the third exporter I think) only produced half the usual quantites this years. The same happened last year. For lack of rain. Ethanol production is negligible in comparison.
Spain produced less last year, and this year is just catastrophic, for lack of rain. The EU has been a net importer or cereals last year for the very first time.
So:
Scarce food is a consequence of bad weather, not of ethanol.
These figures are very easy to check, and I fear we hear other explanations for dishonest reasons.
But hey, weather doesn't mean climate!
QUOTE (Dabeer+Jun 4 2008, 06:29 AM)
To convert America's fleet of gasoline engines to ethanol engines would require a significant investment and would result in significant waste (all the old engines have to be disposed of somehow).
This is not really an issue, unless the petrol wa to run out in the next couple of years.
How long do most people keep their cars? A significant percentage will be replaced in the next few years. If the engine manufacturers stop producing petrol engines today and moved to ethanol (or other alternatives), within a decade there would not be much demand for petrol .
On another note. A while ago, I worked in a chemical plant that produced high octane petrol from natural gas (methane). First the methane was converted into methanol, then a later process converted the methanol into petrol.
This is not really an issue, unless the petrol wa to run out in the next couple of years.
How long do most people keep their cars? A significant percentage will be replaced in the next few years. If the engine manufacturers stop producing petrol engines today and moved to ethanol (or other alternatives), within a decade there would not be much demand for petrol .
On another note. A while ago, I worked in a chemical plant that produced high octane petrol from natural gas (methane). First the methane was converted into methanol, then a later process converted the methanol into petrol.
QUOTE (N O M+)
This is not really an issue, unless the petrol wa to run out in the next couple of years.
And you don't think it's going to? I'm almost certain that petroleum production will not be able to meet demand quite soon, and that the problem will get worse so long as demand stays high.
QUOTE (N O M+)
How long do most people keep their cars? A significant percentage will be replaced in the next few years. If the engine manufacturers stop producing petrol engines today and moved to ethanol (or other alternatives), within a decade there would not be much demand for petrol .
While it's true that in our current consumer society, many people get new cars as frequently as they can afford, it is not true for all people. Many people drive their cars as long as they can, simply because they cannot afford a new car, among other reasons.
Even if migrating the world's fleet of gasoline vehicles to ethanol vehicles were feasible, I don't think that ethanol is the correct alternative fuel choice. I'd prefer to see biogasoline and biodiesel produced by algae. This fuel runs in our current engines, uses the same distribution chain, and places no demands on our food supplies.
While it's true that in our current consumer society, many people get new cars as frequently as they can afford, it is not true for all people. Many people drive their cars as long as they can, simply because they cannot afford a new car, among other reasons.
Even if migrating the world's fleet of gasoline vehicles to ethanol vehicles were feasible, I don't think that ethanol is the correct alternative fuel choice. I'd prefer to see biogasoline and biodiesel produced by algae. This fuel runs in our current engines, uses the same distribution chain, and places no demands on our food supplies.
QUOTE (N O M+)
On another note. A while ago, I worked in a chemical plant that produced high octane petrol from natural gas (methane). First the methane was converted into methanol, then a later process converted the methanol into petrol.
Sure, petroleum is one way of making ethanol, but it's not a good way especially if the petroleum source dries up.
Sure, petroleum is one way of making ethanol, but it's not a good way especially if the petroleum source dries up.
QUOTE (Dabeer+Jun 9 2008, 06:36 PM)
And you don't think it's going to? I'm almost certain that petroleum production will not be able to meet demand quite soon, and that the problem will get worse so long as demand stays high.
Hey, I found this when searchin fer info on the subject.
Long Term World Oil Supply
From what I saw, even very liberal estimates show that we won't even reach our peak oil production until 2026, another 18 years off. The most believable one puts it at 2037, an the most conservative at 2047. No estimate shows oil completely dryin up (or more accurately, becomin too expensive to be used the way we use it) before the 22nd century, although the mos' liberal estimate gives that point at right around 2100.
Hey, I found this when searchin fer info on the subject.
Long Term World Oil Supply
QUOTE
In any event, the world production peak for conventionally reservoired crude is unlikely to be "right around the corner" as so many other estimators have been predicting. Our analysis shows that it will be closer to the middle of the 21st century than to its beginning. Given the long lead times required for significant mass-market penetration of new energy technologies, this result in no way justifies complacency about both supply-side and demand-side research and development.
From what I saw, even very liberal estimates show that we won't even reach our peak oil production until 2026, another 18 years off. The most believable one puts it at 2037, an the most conservative at 2047. No estimate shows oil completely dryin up (or more accurately, becomin too expensive to be used the way we use it) before the 22nd century, although the mos' liberal estimate gives that point at right around 2100.
Hemp seed is the most volatile natural plant oil, and the weight of oil to seed is also one of the highest. The plant also yields a tremendous amount of seeds.
Fromhttp://www.taima.org/en/fibre.html
Fromhttp://www.taima.org/en/fibre.html
Hemp as a Fuel / Energy Source
By Jeremy Briggs
Biodiesel fuel from Hemp Seed Oil
Hemp seed oil can be used as is in bio-diesel engines. Methyl esters, or bio-diesel, can be made from any oil or fat including hemp seed oil. The reaction requires the oil, an alcohol (usually methanol), and a catalyst, which produces bio-diesel and small amount of glycerol or glycerin. When co-fired with 15% methanol, bio-diesel fuel produces energy less than 1/3 as pollution as petroleum diesel.
Energy and Fuel from Hemp Stalks through Pyrolysis
Pyrolysis is the technique of applying high heat to biomass, or organic plants and tree matter, with little or no air. Reduced emissions from coal-fired power plants and automobiles can be accomplished by converting biomass to fuel utilizing pyrolysis technology. The process can produce, from lingo-cellulosic material (like the stalks of hemp), charcoal, gasoline, ethanol, non-condensable gasses, acetic acid, acetone, methane, and methanol. Process adjustments can be done to favor charcoal, pyrolytic oil, gas, or methanol, with 95.5% fuel-to-feed ratios. Around 68% of the energy of the raw biomass will be contained in the charcoal and fuel oils -- renewable energy generated here at home, instead of overpaying for foreign petroleum.
Pyrolysis facilities can run 3 shifts a day, and since pyrolysis facilities need to be within 50 miles of the energy crop to be cost effective, many new local and rural jobs will be created, not to mention the employment opportunities in trucking and transportation.
Hemp vs. Fossil Fuels
Pyrolysis facilities can use the same technology used now to process fossil fuel oil and coal. Petroleum coal and oil conversion is more efficient in terms of fuel-to-feed ratio, but there are many advantages to conversion by pyrolysis.
1) Biomass has a heating value of 5000-8000 BTU/lb, with virtually no ash or sulfur emissions.
2) Ethanol, methanol, methane gas, and gasoline can be derived from biomass at a fraction of the cost of the current cost of oil, coal, or nuclear energy, especially when environmental costs are factored in. Each acre of hemp could yield about 1000 gallons of methanol.
3) When an energy crop is growing, it takes carbon dioxide (CO2) from the air, and releases an equal amount when it is burned, creating a balanced system, unlike petroleum fuels, which only release CO2. When an energy crop like hemp is grown on a massive scale, it will initially lower the CO2 in the air, and then stabilize it at a level lower than before the planting of the energy crop.
4) Use of biomass would end acid rain, end sulfer-based smog, and reverse the greenhouse effect.
QUOTE
Hemp oil is so versatile that it can be used instead of diesel fuel or you can fry tempura in it. Before petroleum and electric lightbulbs, lamps burning hemp seed oil illuminated homes around the world. One ha of seed hemp produces about 1000-1500 litres of hemp oil plus several thousand kg of cellulose-rich fibre. One ha of fibre hemp produces about 8000-11000 kg of dry biomass.
As a renewable resource from living plants hemp does not contribute to the greenhouse effect. The growing plants absorb as much CO2 as will later be released when oil or other plant matter is burnt. Unlike fossil fuels (oil, coal, gas) or nuclear fuels hemp could supply us with raw materials for thousands of years, without ever changing our climate and without producing waste that remains radioactive for millions of years.
As a renewable resource from living plants hemp does not contribute to the greenhouse effect. The growing plants absorb as much CO2 as will later be released when oil or other plant matter is burnt. Unlike fossil fuels (oil, coal, gas) or nuclear fuels hemp could supply us with raw materials for thousands of years, without ever changing our climate and without producing waste that remains radioactive for millions of years.
Fromhttp://www.taima.org/en/fibre.html
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| Hemp oil is so versatile that it can be used instead of diesel fuel or you can fry tempura in it. Before petroleum and electric lightbulbs, lamps burning hemp seed oil illuminated homes around the world. One ha of seed hemp produces about 1000-1500 litres of hemp oil plus several thousand kg of cellulose-rich fibre. One ha of fibre hemp produces about 8000-11000 kg of dry biomass. As a renewable resource from living plants hemp does not contribute to the greenhouse effect. The growing plants absorb as much CO2 as will later be released when oil or other plant matter is burnt. Unlike fossil fuels (oil, coal, gas) or nuclear fuels hemp could supply us with raw materials for thousands of years, without ever changing our climate and without producing waste that remains radioactive for millions of years. |
Fromhttp://www.taima.org/en/fibre.html
Hemp as a Fuel / Energy Source
By Jeremy Briggs
Biodiesel fuel from Hemp Seed Oil
Hemp seed oil can be used as is in bio-diesel engines. Methyl esters, or bio-diesel, can be made from any oil or fat including hemp seed oil. The reaction requires the oil, an alcohol (usually methanol), and a catalyst, which produces bio-diesel and small amount of glycerol or glycerin. When co-fired with 15% methanol, bio-diesel fuel produces energy less than 1/3 as pollution as petroleum diesel.
Energy and Fuel from Hemp Stalks through Pyrolysis
Pyrolysis is the technique of applying high heat to biomass, or organic plants and tree matter, with little or no air. Reduced emissions from coal-fired power plants and automobiles can be accomplished by converting biomass to fuel utilizing pyrolysis technology. The process can produce, from lingo-cellulosic material (like the stalks of hemp), charcoal, gasoline, ethanol, non-condensable gasses, acetic acid, acetone, methane, and methanol. Process adjustments can be done to favor charcoal, pyrolytic oil, gas, or methanol, with 95.5% fuel-to-feed ratios. Around 68% of the energy of the raw biomass will be contained in the charcoal and fuel oils -- renewable energy generated here at home, instead of overpaying for foreign petroleum.
Pyrolysis facilities can run 3 shifts a day, and since pyrolysis facilities need to be within 50 miles of the energy crop to be cost effective, many new local and rural jobs will be created, not to mention the employment opportunities in trucking and transportation.
Hemp vs. Fossil Fuels
Pyrolysis facilities can use the same technology used now to process fossil fuel oil and coal. Petroleum coal and oil conversion is more efficient in terms of fuel-to-feed ratio, but there are many advantages to conversion by pyrolysis.
1) Biomass has a heating value of 5000-8000 BTU/lb, with virtually no ash or sulfur emissions.
2) Ethanol, methanol, methane gas, and gasoline can be derived from biomass at a fraction of the cost of the current cost of oil, coal, or nuclear energy, especially when environmental costs are factored in. Each acre of hemp could yield about 1000 gallons of methanol.
3) When an energy crop is growing, it takes carbon dioxide (CO2) from the air, and releases an equal amount when it is burned, creating a balanced system, unlike petroleum fuels, which only release CO2. When an energy crop like hemp is grown on a massive scale, it will initially lower the CO2 in the air, and then stabilize it at a level lower than before the planting of the energy crop.
4) Use of biomass would end acid rain, end sulfer-based smog, and reverse the greenhouse effect.
From http://www.hemphasis.net/Fuel-Energy/fuel.htm
http://www.hempcar.org/biofacts.shtml Did you know that the Model T was originally designed to run on hemp oil? If only...
Fromhttp://www.hempworld.com/Hemp-CyberFarm_com/htms/hemp-products/bio-diesel/bio-diesel.html
http://www.hempcar.org/biofacts.shtml Did you know that the Model T was originally designed to run on hemp oil? If only...
QUOTE
Vegetable Oil Will Fuel New Jersey Test Buses! (source Inv. Buss. Daily)
NJTransit is conducting a four-month test of a blended diesel fuel containing vegetable oil, like that from soy beans (hemp-seed). The National Bio Diesel Board is providing the fuel free of charge, thanks to a grant from the United Soybean Board. The B-20 fuel, containing 20% vegetable oil, was developed by Twin Rivers Technologies, Inc. of Quincy, Mass
Do you know more about this? E-mail us at Matthew@HempWorld.com
*Industrial-Hemp has no psychoactive properties following definition of the European Economic Community (EEC); THC content is less than 0.3%. In general, low THC-seed varieties without psychoactive properties are those that have a THC content of less than 1%. (See also No-THC Hemp-seed.) THC= Delta-9 TetraHydroCannabinol.
NJTransit is conducting a four-month test of a blended diesel fuel containing vegetable oil, like that from soy beans (hemp-seed). The National Bio Diesel Board is providing the fuel free of charge, thanks to a grant from the United Soybean Board. The B-20 fuel, containing 20% vegetable oil, was developed by Twin Rivers Technologies, Inc. of Quincy, Mass
Do you know more about this? E-mail us at Matthew@HempWorld.com
*Industrial-Hemp has no psychoactive properties following definition of the European Economic Community (EEC); THC content is less than 0.3%. In general, low THC-seed varieties without psychoactive properties are those that have a THC content of less than 1%. (See also No-THC Hemp-seed.) THC= Delta-9 TetraHydroCannabinol.
Fromhttp://www.hempworld.com/Hemp-CyberFarm_com/htms/hemp-products/bio-diesel/bio-diesel.html
QUOTE (MjolnirPants+Jun 9 2008, 04:33 PM)
Hey, I found this when searchin fer info on the subject.
Long Term World Oil Supply
From what I saw, even very liberal estimates show that we won't even reach our peak oil production until 2026, another 18 years off. The most believable one puts it at 2037, an the most conservative at 2047. No estimate shows oil completely dryin up (or more accurately, becomin too expensive to be used the way we use it) before the 22nd century, although the mos' liberal estimate gives that point at right around 2100.
I don't see that as a reason to start now. Finding a solid alternative now gives us plenty of time to wean ourselves from foreign oil and to work out any kinks in the process.
Long Term World Oil Supply
From what I saw, even very liberal estimates show that we won't even reach our peak oil production until 2026, another 18 years off. The most believable one puts it at 2037, an the most conservative at 2047. No estimate shows oil completely dryin up (or more accurately, becomin too expensive to be used the way we use it) before the 22nd century, although the mos' liberal estimate gives that point at right around 2100.
I don't see that as a reason to start now. Finding a solid alternative now gives us plenty of time to wean ourselves from foreign oil and to work out any kinks in the process.
QUOTE (soundhertz+Jun 9 2008, 10:04 PM)
Hemp seed is the most volatile natural plant oil, and the weight of oil to seed is also one of the highest. The plant also yields a tremendous amount of seeds.
Fromhttp://www.taima.org/en/fibre.html
From http://www.hemphasis.net/Fuel-Energy/fuel.htm
http://www.hempcar.org/biofacts.shtml Did you know that the Model T was originally designed to run on hemp oil? If only...
Fromhttp://www.hempworld.com/Hemp-CyberFarm_com/htms/hemp-products/bio-diesel/bio-diesel.html
That's some pretty cool info. I'll have to do some more reading on the subject, maybe include it as an alternative suggestion.
Fromhttp://www.taima.org/en/fibre.html
From http://www.hemphasis.net/Fuel-Energy/fuel.htm
http://www.hempcar.org/biofacts.shtml Did you know that the Model T was originally designed to run on hemp oil? If only...
Fromhttp://www.hempworld.com/Hemp-CyberFarm_com/htms/hemp-products/bio-diesel/bio-diesel.html
That's some pretty cool info. I'll have to do some more reading on the subject, maybe include it as an alternative suggestion.
QUOTE (Dabeer+Jun 10 2008, 06:36 AM)
QUOTE (N O M+)
On another note. A while ago, I worked in a chemical plant that produced high octane petrol from natural gas (methane). First the methane was converted into methanol, then a later process converted the methanol into petrol.
Sure, petroleum is one way of making ethanol, but it's not a good way especially if the petroleum source dries up.
No, I certainly wasn't suggesting petrol to alcohol. I was suggesting petrol from methane, which could be either from underground sources or produced from bio waste.
Sure, petroleum is one way of making ethanol, but it's not a good way especially if the petroleum source dries up.
No, I certainly wasn't suggesting petrol to alcohol. I was suggesting petrol from methane, which could be either from underground sources or produced from bio waste.
QUOTE (N O M+Jun 10 2008, 12:05 AM)
Sure, petroleum is one way of making ethanol, but it's not a good way especially if the petroleum source dries up. [/QUOTE]
No, I certainly wasn't suggesting petrol to alcohol. I was suggesting petrol from methane, which could be either from underground sources or produced from bio waste.
Ah, I see that now, sorry about that.
That is interesting, I didn't know they could do that. I do know they capture and use the methane at landfills, but I never considered that they would be processing it into gasoline.
No, I certainly wasn't suggesting petrol to alcohol. I was suggesting petrol from methane, which could be either from underground sources or produced from bio waste.
Ah, I see that now, sorry about that.
That is interesting, I didn't know they could do that. I do know they capture and use the methane at landfills, but I never considered that they would be processing it into gasoline.
QUOTE (Dabeer+Jun 10 2008, 03:39 AM)
I don't see that as a reason to start now. Finding a solid alternative now gives us plenty of time to wean ourselves from foreign oil and to work out any kinks in the process.
'Natch
I weren't disagreein with ya, son. In fact, I think th'more we do to ween ourselves o oil, the better.
It's jes the cost o ethanol that worries me. Plus, yer lowerin food production t'make it, which means the prices o food go up while the price o ethanol don't drop much at all, cause it's still expensive t'ferment. (You can only ferment saturations up to 15%, yanno, else ya kill the yeast.)
I think a variety o fuels need to be considered, here. Not jes one.
'Natch
I weren't disagreein with ya, son. In fact, I think th'more we do to ween ourselves o oil, the better.
It's jes the cost o ethanol that worries me. Plus, yer lowerin food production t'make it, which means the prices o food go up while the price o ethanol don't drop much at all, cause it's still expensive t'ferment. (You can only ferment saturations up to 15%, yanno, else ya kill the yeast.)
I think a variety o fuels need to be considered, here. Not jes one.
QUOTE (MjolnirPants+Jun 10 2008, 10:12 AM)
'Natch
I weren't disagreein with ya, son. In fact, I think th'more we do to ween ourselves o oil, the better.
It's jes the cost o ethanol that worries me. Plus, yer lowerin food production t'make it, which means the prices o food go up while the price o ethanol don't drop much at all, cause it's still expensive t'ferment. (You can only ferment saturations up to 15%, yanno, else ya kill the yeast.)
I think a variety o fuels need to be considered, here. Not jes one.
Exactly. Your argument is exactly why I want to petition the US government to not commit to ethanol, and to instead research other alternatives such as algae-based biogasoline and biodiesel.
I weren't disagreein with ya, son. In fact, I think th'more we do to ween ourselves o oil, the better.
It's jes the cost o ethanol that worries me. Plus, yer lowerin food production t'make it, which means the prices o food go up while the price o ethanol don't drop much at all, cause it's still expensive t'ferment. (You can only ferment saturations up to 15%, yanno, else ya kill the yeast.)
I think a variety o fuels need to be considered, here. Not jes one.
Exactly. Your argument is exactly why I want to petition the US government to not commit to ethanol, and to instead research other alternatives such as algae-based biogasoline and biodiesel.
QUOTE (Dabeer+Jun 10 2008, 02:27 PM)
Exactly. Your argument is exactly why I want to petition the US government to not commit to ethanol, and to instead research other alternatives such as algae-based biogasoline and biodiesel.
What is you petition asking?
It sounds like you are lobbying for you pet project while seeking the funds currently used for ethanol.
Some of your arguments are very weak.
I can, in my shop, convert a modern gasoline engine to run on ethanol for less than the price of a paint job!
If done at the manufacturing level the cost is about 5% of this cost.
Why will it be only corn production that is switched to sugar cane?
I raise pine trees for pulp and lumber with side projects in bamboo and pasture for cattle. Should I find that corn or sugar cane is more profitable, I may switch!!
Research for a great variety of fuels is being carried out by many private companies and individuals right now.
Got a pet project? Get out and give it your best shot....try not to kill others projects in the process.
Bruce
What is you petition asking?
It sounds like you are lobbying for you pet project while seeking the funds currently used for ethanol.
Some of your arguments are very weak.
I can, in my shop, convert a modern gasoline engine to run on ethanol for less than the price of a paint job!
If done at the manufacturing level the cost is about 5% of this cost.
Why will it be only corn production that is switched to sugar cane?
I raise pine trees for pulp and lumber with side projects in bamboo and pasture for cattle. Should I find that corn or sugar cane is more profitable, I may switch!!
Research for a great variety of fuels is being carried out by many private companies and individuals right now.
Got a pet project? Get out and give it your best shot....try not to kill others projects in the process.
Bruce
QUOTE (egnorant+Jun 12 2008, 03:09 PM)
What is you petition asking?
It sounds like you are lobbying for you pet project while seeking the funds currently used for ethanol.
Some of your arguments are very weak.
I can, in my shop, convert a modern gasoline engine to run on ethanol for less than the price of a paint job!
If done at the manufacturing level the cost is about 5% of this cost.
Why will it be only corn production that is switched to sugar cane?
I raise pine trees for pulp and lumber with side projects in bamboo and pasture for cattle. Should I find that corn or sugar cane is more profitable, I may switch!!
Research for a great variety of fuels is being carried out by many private companies and individuals right now.
Got a pet project? Get out and give it your best shot....try not to kill others projects in the process.
Bruce
I have to agree with that, I am working on a gasoline replacement from earth worms.
Feeding worms waist by products, I find the slime the earth worms produce is a long chain molecule that can be converted into a bio fuel, and since I am using waste products no harm the the environment.
IT is a long way from producing a viable fuel but it gives me something to do in my spare time.
It sounds like you are lobbying for you pet project while seeking the funds currently used for ethanol.
Some of your arguments are very weak.
I can, in my shop, convert a modern gasoline engine to run on ethanol for less than the price of a paint job!
If done at the manufacturing level the cost is about 5% of this cost.
Why will it be only corn production that is switched to sugar cane?
I raise pine trees for pulp and lumber with side projects in bamboo and pasture for cattle. Should I find that corn or sugar cane is more profitable, I may switch!!
Research for a great variety of fuels is being carried out by many private companies and individuals right now.
Got a pet project? Get out and give it your best shot....try not to kill others projects in the process.
Bruce
I have to agree with that, I am working on a gasoline replacement from earth worms.
Feeding worms waist by products, I find the slime the earth worms produce is a long chain molecule that can be converted into a bio fuel, and since I am using waste products no harm the the environment.
IT is a long way from producing a viable fuel but it gives me something to do in my spare time.
QUOTE (egnorant+)
What is you petition asking?
I would like the US Government to discourage the use of ethanol that is produced from food stocks, whether corn or sugar. Production of ethanol from waste cellulose should be promoted.
I would like the US Government to promote alternative sources of fuel that avoid adverse effects on our economy, whether through raising food or other commodity prices, requiring substantial replacement or retrofitting of our infrastructure, placing a higher burden on consumers, etc.
I believe that ethanol has valid applications, but that transitioning our transportation infrastructure to pure ethanol is the wrong choice. I believe that biodiesel or biogasoline, whether from algae or from other waste sources, deserves more attention and support than it is getting.
I would like the US Government to discourage the use of ethanol that is produced from food stocks, whether corn or sugar. Production of ethanol from waste cellulose should be promoted.
I would like the US Government to promote alternative sources of fuel that avoid adverse effects on our economy, whether through raising food or other commodity prices, requiring substantial replacement or retrofitting of our infrastructure, placing a higher burden on consumers, etc.
I believe that ethanol has valid applications, but that transitioning our transportation infrastructure to pure ethanol is the wrong choice. I believe that biodiesel or biogasoline, whether from algae or from other waste sources, deserves more attention and support than it is getting.
QUOTE (egnorant+)
It sounds like you are lobbying for you pet project while seeking the funds currently used for ethanol.
I am a computer scientist, not a biologist or any other profession having anything to do with alternative fuels, and I do not have any pet or side projects in those areas. I simply have a strong opinion, and I'm curious to see if my opinion is shared. My opinion might not be right, but only through discussion such as this will that ever be proven.
I am a computer scientist, not a biologist or any other profession having anything to do with alternative fuels, and I do not have any pet or side projects in those areas. I simply have a strong opinion, and I'm curious to see if my opinion is shared. My opinion might not be right, but only through discussion such as this will that ever be proven.
QUOTE (egnorant+)
Some of your arguments are very weak.
Really? Let's see...
Really? Let's see...
QUOTE (egnorant+)
I can, in my shop, convert a modern gasoline engine to run on ethanol for less than the price of a paint job!
Pure ethanol, not a blend? And would the government subsidize this procedure for every car owner? There are a great many people that would not be able to afford such a procedure.
Pure ethanol, not a blend? And would the government subsidize this procedure for every car owner? There are a great many people that would not be able to afford such a procedure.
QUOTE (egnorant+)
If done at the manufacturing level the cost is about 5% of this cost.
This still requires consumers to replace their current vehicles, something a great many drivers cannot afford.
This still requires consumers to replace their current vehicles, something a great many drivers cannot afford.
QUOTE (egnorant+)
Why will it be only corn production that is switched to sugar cane?
It won't be just corn, I don't think we should be using ethanol from any food source, or even from any crop that would cause a farmer, looking for a profit, to switch from a food crop to a fuel crop. This switch would simply drive food prices even higher. I have no problem with, and I encourage more research into, ethanol production from waste cellulose.
QUOTE (egnorant+)
I raise pine trees for pulp and lumber with side projects in bamboo and pasture for cattle. Should I find that corn or sugar cane is more profitable, I may switch!!
This is exactly what I do not want. The prices for the other commodities you produce will rise, adversely effecting our economy, as farmers switch to more profitable fuel crops.
Other issues you didn't mention:
1. Infrastructure overhaul. Distributing pure ethanol would require that the existing gasoline distribution and point-of-sale systems be replaced or retrofitted.
2. Energy density. While ethanol does quite well as a race fuel due to it's high octane rating, it does not do as well for overall transportation. This lower energy density would require larger fuel tanks and/or more frequent trips to the pump, thus placing an additional burden on the consumers.
This is exactly what I do not want. The prices for the other commodities you produce will rise, adversely effecting our economy, as farmers switch to more profitable fuel crops.
Other issues you didn't mention:
1. Infrastructure overhaul. Distributing pure ethanol would require that the existing gasoline distribution and point-of-sale systems be replaced or retrofitted.
2. Energy density. While ethanol does quite well as a race fuel due to it's high octane rating, it does not do as well for overall transportation. This lower energy density would require larger fuel tanks and/or more frequent trips to the pump, thus placing an additional burden on the consumers.
QUOTE (egnorant+)
Research for a great variety of fuels is being carried out by many private companies and individuals right now.
I agree that many small private companies are engaged in this research. I believe that the US Government should provide support for this research. I also believe the US Government should provide some encouragement for larger companies, such as Exxon and Chevron, to also pursue this research, instead of letting them sit back and enjoy their profit margins.
I agree that many small private companies are engaged in this research. I believe that the US Government should provide support for this research. I also believe the US Government should provide some encouragement for larger companies, such as Exxon and Chevron, to also pursue this research, instead of letting them sit back and enjoy their profit margins.
QUOTE (egnorant+)
Got a pet project? Get out and give it your best shot....try not to kill others projects in the process.
If I had the resources to engage in an algae-based biogasoline production project, I would do so in a heartbeat.
I'm not trying to "kill" ethanol - I'm just trying to make sure the US doesn't place all it's chips on ethanol, and instead examines all of the available alternatives.
If I had the resources to engage in an algae-based biogasoline production project, I would do so in a heartbeat.
I'm not trying to "kill" ethanol - I'm just trying to make sure the US doesn't place all it's chips on ethanol, and instead examines all of the available alternatives.
I agree with the general idea that we should be using sources that don't offer much else, ie waste or recyclable sources. Using something like corn seems foolhardy. Lots of people need corn, and it's a fragile resource already, being dependent on the weather. Speaking of which - a quick scan of the news will underscore my point .
QUOTE (Dabeer+Jun 12 2008, 04:16 PM)
[QUOTE](egnorant)
I raise pine trees for pulp and lumber with side projects in bamboo and pasture for cattle. Should I find that corn or sugar cane is more profitable, I may switch!! [QUOTE/]
This is exactly what I do not want. The prices for the other commodities you produce will rise, adversely effecting our economy, as farmers switch to more profitable fuel crops.
Suppose I switch to algae based bio fuels?
Are you contemplating a statute that will prevent my from switching in order to
support the status quo?
One thing I have discovered is that "what I want" and "what is correct" and "what is practical" and "what is going to happen" are often VERY different things.
My problem with your post is wanting to get the government to discourage anything!!
As some of us were gearing up for waste oil bio diesel in our area we were met with politics and large companies with too much money.
Local company setup a specific waste collection program and then pushed legislation concerning the collection of this oil.
Basically it was re-defined as a hazardous waste and only licensed and inspected companies could collect the oil.
Guess who defined the inspection program and the collection and storage rules?
The only qualified inspectors were employees of??? Take a guess?
3 smaller oil collection companies were shut down and price for collection went from restaurants being paid a small fee (.02 per gallon)for the oil to being charged
for pickup (.09 per gallon).
5 year contracts with automatic renewals and built in price increases to this local monopoly.
Let the market sort this out!
Bruce
I raise pine trees for pulp and lumber with side projects in bamboo and pasture for cattle. Should I find that corn or sugar cane is more profitable, I may switch!! [QUOTE/]
This is exactly what I do not want. The prices for the other commodities you produce will rise, adversely effecting our economy, as farmers switch to more profitable fuel crops.
Suppose I switch to algae based bio fuels?
Are you contemplating a statute that will prevent my from switching in order to
support the status quo?
One thing I have discovered is that "what I want" and "what is correct" and "what is practical" and "what is going to happen" are often VERY different things.
My problem with your post is wanting to get the government to discourage anything!!
As some of us were gearing up for waste oil bio diesel in our area we were met with politics and large companies with too much money.
Local company setup a specific waste collection program and then pushed legislation concerning the collection of this oil.
Basically it was re-defined as a hazardous waste and only licensed and inspected companies could collect the oil.
Guess who defined the inspection program and the collection and storage rules?
The only qualified inspectors were employees of??? Take a guess?
3 smaller oil collection companies were shut down and price for collection went from restaurants being paid a small fee (.02 per gallon)for the oil to being charged
for pickup (.09 per gallon).
5 year contracts with automatic renewals and built in price increases to this local monopoly.
Let the market sort this out!
Bruce
QUOTE (egnorant+Jun 15 2008, 04:58 PM)
Suppose I switch to algae based bio fuels?
Are you contemplating a statute that will prevent my from switching in order to
support the status quo?
One thing I have discovered is that "what I want" and "what is correct" and "what is practical" and "what is going to happen" are often VERY different things.
My problem with your post is wanting to get the government to discourage anything!!
As some of us were gearing up for waste oil bio diesel in our area we were met with politics and large companies with too much money.
Local company setup a specific waste collection program and then pushed legislation concerning the collection of this oil.
Basically it was re-defined as a hazardous waste and only licensed and inspected companies could collect the oil.
Guess who defined the inspection program and the collection and storage rules?
The only qualified inspectors were employees of??? Take a guess?
3 smaller oil collection companies were shut down and price for collection went from restaurants being paid a small fee (.02 per gallon)for the oil to being charged
for pickup (.09 per gallon).
5 year contracts with automatic renewals and built in price increases to this local monopoly.
Let the market sort this out!
Bruce
I understand the point you just made, and I can agree with you. Unfortunately, what I see is the government pushing ethanol over all other alternatives, and I do not think they should be doing this. I think they should be supporting research into all alternatives, not just focusing on "the easy way out" which is ethanol - easy because it's already available and in use, not easy in that it's correct or practical.
My personal belief is that ethanol is not correct and is not practical. Production of ethanol has negative effects on food prices, thus not correct. Ethanol distribution and use requires replacement or retrofitting of our automotive fleet and our point-of-sale distribution systems, and is thus not practical. It also has a lower energy density than gasoline, requiring more frequent fillups - a negative effect on the consumer. I'm referring, of course, to the use of a pure ethanol fuel, not a blend like E90 or E85.
My personal belief is that algae-based biogasoline is correct and practical. Production consumes waste sewage water and sunlight, and thus has a positive effect on our society rather than a negative, and is thus more correct. Distribution and consumption use the equipment that consumers and retailers already own, and does not require any upgrades, replacements, or retrofitting, and is thus more practical. It also has the same energy density as regular petroleum-based gasoline, and will thus not negatively effect the consumer.
I have no vested interest in any specific alternative. "What I want" does not play into my opinion or my efforts here to change "what will happen", I am only basing this on what is correct and what is practical.
Should someone come up with a more correct and/or more practical answer than algae-based biogasoline, I would support that instead.
I guess I should say I don't want the US to be led blindly into ethanol without an adequate look into all the alternatives.
Are you contemplating a statute that will prevent my from switching in order to
support the status quo?
One thing I have discovered is that "what I want" and "what is correct" and "what is practical" and "what is going to happen" are often VERY different things.
My problem with your post is wanting to get the government to discourage anything!!
As some of us were gearing up for waste oil bio diesel in our area we were met with politics and large companies with too much money.
Local company setup a specific waste collection program and then pushed legislation concerning the collection of this oil.
Basically it was re-defined as a hazardous waste and only licensed and inspected companies could collect the oil.
Guess who defined the inspection program and the collection and storage rules?
The only qualified inspectors were employees of??? Take a guess?
3 smaller oil collection companies were shut down and price for collection went from restaurants being paid a small fee (.02 per gallon)for the oil to being charged
for pickup (.09 per gallon).
5 year contracts with automatic renewals and built in price increases to this local monopoly.
Let the market sort this out!
Bruce
I understand the point you just made, and I can agree with you. Unfortunately, what I see is the government pushing ethanol over all other alternatives, and I do not think they should be doing this. I think they should be supporting research into all alternatives, not just focusing on "the easy way out" which is ethanol - easy because it's already available and in use, not easy in that it's correct or practical.
My personal belief is that ethanol is not correct and is not practical. Production of ethanol has negative effects on food prices, thus not correct. Ethanol distribution and use requires replacement or retrofitting of our automotive fleet and our point-of-sale distribution systems, and is thus not practical. It also has a lower energy density than gasoline, requiring more frequent fillups - a negative effect on the consumer. I'm referring, of course, to the use of a pure ethanol fuel, not a blend like E90 or E85.
My personal belief is that algae-based biogasoline is correct and practical. Production consumes waste sewage water and sunlight, and thus has a positive effect on our society rather than a negative, and is thus more correct. Distribution and consumption use the equipment that consumers and retailers already own, and does not require any upgrades, replacements, or retrofitting, and is thus more practical. It also has the same energy density as regular petroleum-based gasoline, and will thus not negatively effect the consumer.
I have no vested interest in any specific alternative. "What I want" does not play into my opinion or my efforts here to change "what will happen", I am only basing this on what is correct and what is practical.
Should someone come up with a more correct and/or more practical answer than algae-based biogasoline, I would support that instead.
I guess I should say I don't want the US to be led blindly into ethanol without an adequate look into all the alternatives.
Now THIS:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/envi...icle4133668.ece
...is what I'm talking about. This is the idea that knocks out algae fuels in my mind. I hope it's for real.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/envi...icle4133668.ece
...is what I'm talking about. This is the idea that knocks out algae fuels in my mind. I hope it's for real.
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