I welcome you for a discussion on the most hot topic of the day "End of the world 2012"
Vijay Kumar
I doubt anything will happen.
I think Kyoto kicks in.
We might have $1000 DNA sequencing by then too.
We might have $1000 DNA sequencing by then too.
Theres always Eta Carinae to think about. She could go up in 2012. Check out my post in the Space forum.
(from the 2012 website)
So if people don't start off the nuclear war God will???
QUOTE
It is now 2004 and still there is no sign of an imminent nuclear World war. The future happenings can get delayed but they cannot be permanently postponed for now it is not even within the control of God, the Almighty Creator to set things right.
So if people don't start off the nuclear war God will???
The Mayans split time up into 3 eras. They lived in the 2nd one. I believe the Mayan calender predicts the end of the 2nd era and the beginning of the 3rd in 2012.
So - come 2011, should we party like it's 1999?
QUOTE
So - come 2011, should we party like it's 1999?
Ugh, I hope not. That New Years was my wife's turn to pick our activities. I wound up bored out of my skull and suffering from inhalation of large quantities of second-hand smoke at Midnight Bingo. Party like it's 1999, indeed!
Anyway, who cares? All apocalyptic prophecies to this date have proven wrong, I see little reason why yours should be any different. If the end is supposed to come, show me your faith, and sign over all your worldly belongings to me for the date Jan 1, 2013. (This is WAY more fun than trying to convince Evangelicals, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc, who only have a "feeling" the End is coming "within our lifetimes"!) Oh, and no cheating by wasting, spending, or giving it away before that date: you'll spoil it and show me that you truly have no faith!
I have better things to do than worry about an impending apocalypse predicted by some goatherder that saw demons behind every tree. I didn't panick when the End was supposed to arrive because some nerds in the 70's didn't think of adding support for an extra two digits in computers' BIOS.
QUOTE (sinned34+)
I have better things to do than worry about an impending apocalypse predicted by some goatherder that saw demons behind every tree.
sinned34: I have better things to do, too. Like continuing to cast demons out of people in Jesus Christ's name, just like I've done for many, many years. What think ye of that?
P.S. By the way, I don't herd goats. I do seek "lost sheep", though.
sinned34: I have better things to do, too. Like continuing to cast demons out of people in Jesus Christ's name, just like I've done for many, many years. What think ye of that?
P.S. By the way, I don't herd goats. I do seek "lost sheep", though.
Would it be immoral to bilk people who believed in this 2012 nonsense out of their money?
By the way, I don't believe the world will end in 2012...in case my last post gave anyone the wrong impression.
QUOTE (El_Machinae+Mar 20 2006, 08:48 PM)
Would it be immoral to bilk people who believed in this 2012 nonsense out of their money?
Yeah, but if they're dumb enough to fall for it, it's they're own fault for being stupid.
Yeah, but if they're dumb enough to fall for it, it's they're own fault for being stupid.
I wouldn't really worry so much about nuclear wars in the sense of wiping out the planet like mars.
One thing is certain the smaller the bigger, such as splitting the atom.
Good thing the theories worked out for that!!
That is what would be greater feared, this "small", such as our Scientists are shrinking into neutrinos and quarks and ant-matter.
What if their theories didn't work out and they caused some sort of atomic "chain" reaction on a grand scale, say comparable to the "philadelphia experiment".
That is a greater worry than a nuke bomb for myself, anyway.
The other is Earth Shifts.
My research into Atlantis, as you all may or may not know, reveals a great importance of 6482.bC as a time of great disaster as our Scientists recently also became aware of.
It also points to roughly 3000 year Cycles of this Great Disaster which I feel is from Earth Shifts which result in Great Floods and Tsunamis world wide. Two factors being Iceland moving some 700 miles north and the Pyramid Rose Line which I believe once marked the Earth's axis.
So the dates:
6482....... bC Great World Flood, Atlantis I destroyed, Bospherous straite flood
3482....... bC Flood of Gilgamesh, Deukalion, Great Atlantis II Battle (3473.bC)
482........ bC
2518....... aD.
5518....... aD.
Becomes more relevant and as you can see some 512 years to go.
One thing is certain the smaller the bigger, such as splitting the atom.
Good thing the theories worked out for that!!
That is what would be greater feared, this "small", such as our Scientists are shrinking into neutrinos and quarks and ant-matter.
What if their theories didn't work out and they caused some sort of atomic "chain" reaction on a grand scale, say comparable to the "philadelphia experiment".
That is a greater worry than a nuke bomb for myself, anyway.
The other is Earth Shifts.
My research into Atlantis, as you all may or may not know, reveals a great importance of 6482.bC as a time of great disaster as our Scientists recently also became aware of.
It also points to roughly 3000 year Cycles of this Great Disaster which I feel is from Earth Shifts which result in Great Floods and Tsunamis world wide. Two factors being Iceland moving some 700 miles north and the Pyramid Rose Line which I believe once marked the Earth's axis.
So the dates:
6482....... bC Great World Flood, Atlantis I destroyed, Bospherous straite flood
3482....... bC Flood of Gilgamesh, Deukalion, Great Atlantis II Battle (3473.bC)
482........ bC
2518....... aD.
5518....... aD.
Becomes more relevant and as you can see some 512 years to go.
(newguy)
Bloody Hell! Do you actually see the Demons come out or do you just work with people who have mental health problems?
(Paul Riven)
Bloody Hell! Do you actually see the Demons come out or do you just work with people who have mental health problems?
(Paul Riven)
ant-matter
That is small! Is it a typo, a joke or a genuine misunderstanding?
If you desire and enjoy casting out demons, thetans, or pirates in the name of Jesus Christ, L. Ron Hubbard, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster, then by all means carry on. Just so long as you're not causing injury to others around you, and you keep up with interesting conversations without descending into SoLoved/Messenger/Dad1/Steve###-like insanity! Ye desireth not the imposition of your beliefs on others by way of government decree, so you know I loves ya, Newsie. As much as atheists and nondenominational but evangelical-leaning Christians can, anyways...
If you desire and enjoy casting out demons, thetans, or pirates in the name of Jesus Christ, L. Ron Hubbard, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster, then by all means carry on. Just so long as you're not causing injury to others around you, and you keep up with interesting conversations without descending into SoLoved/Messenger/Dad1/Steve###-like insanity! Ye desireth not the imposition of your beliefs on others by way of government decree, so you know I loves ya, Newsie. As much as atheists and nondenominational but evangelical-leaning Christians can, anyways...
P.S. By the way, I don't herd goats. I do seek "lost sheep", though.
And therefore, from this day forth, ye shall be known as Little Bo Newguy!
PS: I'm just attempting to joke with you, Newsie. Please don't take offense to anything in this post
QUOTE
Like continuing to cast demons out of people in Jesus Christ's name, just like I've done for many, many years. What think ye of that?
Bloody Hell! Do you actually see the Demons come out or do you just work with people who have mental health problems?
(Paul Riven)
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| Like continuing to cast demons out of people in Jesus Christ's name, just like I've done for many, many years. What think ye of that? |
Bloody Hell! Do you actually see the Demons come out or do you just work with people who have mental health problems?
(Paul Riven)
ant-matter
That is small! Is it a typo, a joke or a genuine misunderstanding?
The world will end.
So what?
Really, the catastrophists say that the end is near and there isn't a thing we can do about it... so if they are right, what's the point?
You go about living your life the best you can whaile you can...
just like always.
So what?
Really, the catastrophists say that the end is near and there isn't a thing we can do about it... so if they are right, what's the point?
You go about living your life the best you can whaile you can...
just like always.
QUOTE
I have better things to do, too. Like continuing to cast demons out of people in Jesus Christ's name, just like I've done for many, many years. What think ye of that?
If you desire and enjoy casting out demons, thetans, or pirates in the name of Jesus Christ, L. Ron Hubbard, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster, then by all means carry on. Just so long as you're not causing injury to others around you, and you keep up with interesting conversations without descending into SoLoved/Messenger/Dad1/Steve###-like insanity! Ye desireth not the imposition of your beliefs on others by way of government decree, so you know I loves ya, Newsie. As much as atheists and nondenominational but evangelical-leaning Christians can, anyways...
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| I have better things to do, too. Like continuing to cast demons out of people in Jesus Christ's name, just like I've done for many, many years. What think ye of that? |
If you desire and enjoy casting out demons, thetans, or pirates in the name of Jesus Christ, L. Ron Hubbard, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster, then by all means carry on. Just so long as you're not causing injury to others around you, and you keep up with interesting conversations without descending into SoLoved/Messenger/Dad1/Steve###-like insanity! Ye desireth not the imposition of your beliefs on others by way of government decree, so you know I loves ya, Newsie. As much as atheists and nondenominational but evangelical-leaning Christians can, anyways...
P.S. By the way, I don't herd goats. I do seek "lost sheep", though.
And therefore, from this day forth, ye shall be known as Little Bo Newguy!
PS: I'm just attempting to joke with you, Newsie. Please don't take offense to anything in this post
QUOTE (spaghettihoop+Mar 21 2006, 08:41 PM)
(newguy)
Bloody Hell! Do you actually see the Demons come out or do you just work with people who have mental health problems?
spaghettihoop: No, I've never actually seen the demons come out. I have seen ALL SORTS, and I mean ALL SORTS, of wild manifestations, though, and I've seen immediate healings take place before my very eyes on a multitude of different occasions. I have also(no sense in holding back) heard demons scream when coming out of people. And, no, probably 90% of the time it wasn't/isn't "mental" problems that I was/am dealing with...mostly physical torment(paralysis, deafness, fever, etc.).
Bloody Hell! Do you actually see the Demons come out or do you just work with people who have mental health problems?
spaghettihoop: No, I've never actually seen the demons come out. I have seen ALL SORTS, and I mean ALL SORTS, of wild manifestations, though, and I've seen immediate healings take place before my very eyes on a multitude of different occasions. I have also(no sense in holding back) heard demons scream when coming out of people. And, no, probably 90% of the time it wasn't/isn't "mental" problems that I was/am dealing with...mostly physical torment(paralysis, deafness, fever, etc.).
PS: I'm just attempting to joke with you, Newsie. Please don't take offense to anything in this post
sinned34: No offense taken. Actually, and I trust that you've read enough of my posts to know that I'm not the type to flatter, I genuinely appreciate the sincerity of your posts, whether I agree with the content or not. Have a good one.
QUOTE
Like continuing to cast demons out of people in Jesus Christ's name, just like I've done for many, many years. What think ye of that?
Bloody Hell! Do you actually see the Demons come out or do you just work with people who have mental health problems?
spaghettihoop: No, I've never actually seen the demons come out. I have seen ALL SORTS, and I mean ALL SORTS, of wild manifestations, though, and I've seen immediate healings take place before my very eyes on a multitude of different occasions. I have also(no sense in holding back) heard demons scream when coming out of people. And, no, probably 90% of the time it wasn't/isn't "mental" problems that I was/am dealing with...mostly physical torment(paralysis, deafness, fever, etc.).
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| Like continuing to cast demons out of people in Jesus Christ's name, just like I've done for many, many years. What think ye of that? |
Bloody Hell! Do you actually see the Demons come out or do you just work with people who have mental health problems?
spaghettihoop: No, I've never actually seen the demons come out. I have seen ALL SORTS, and I mean ALL SORTS, of wild manifestations, though, and I've seen immediate healings take place before my very eyes on a multitude of different occasions. I have also(no sense in holding back) heard demons scream when coming out of people. And, no, probably 90% of the time it wasn't/isn't "mental" problems that I was/am dealing with...mostly physical torment(paralysis, deafness, fever, etc.).
PS: I'm just attempting to joke with you, Newsie. Please don't take offense to anything in this post
sinned34: No offense taken. Actually, and I trust that you've read enough of my posts to know that I'm not the type to flatter, I genuinely appreciate the sincerity of your posts, whether I agree with the content or not. Have a good one.
Hey Newguy, its sure been a while. It seems the creation/evolution forum has come grinding to a halt as of late. What gives? How else am I going to avoid work now? hahahaha just kidding....or am I???
Hope all is well in the wacky world of tshirt sales. Things are going well here....really well actually. Anyways, to throw in my 2 cents, if the world ends in 2012...oh well, nothing I can do, so why worry about it right? Although, like most of the skeptics, I highly doubt it will end. And as a scientist I will have to see it end to believe it.....and its pretty hard to see the world end as an outside observer, so I guess I will never believe now will I?
Oh, and since you don't like my last Richard Feynman quote, here is one he said on his death bed
He has some great quotes....let me post some others, just because I find them so amusing.
"Mathematics is not real, but it feels real. Where is this place?"
# "What I cannot create, I do not understand." (Taken from his chalkboard after his death.)
# "Know how to solve every problem that has ever been solved." (Taken from his chalkboard after his death.)
"I cannot define the real problem, therefore I suspect there's no real problem, but I'm not sure there's no real problem." (about Quantum Mechanics)
What an interesting character. Anyone who hasn't read about Richard Feynman I suggest they do. He was very interesting, and led quite the extraordinary life.
Cheers everyone.
Hope all is well in the wacky world of tshirt sales. Things are going well here....really well actually. Anyways, to throw in my 2 cents, if the world ends in 2012...oh well, nothing I can do, so why worry about it right? Although, like most of the skeptics, I highly doubt it will end. And as a scientist I will have to see it end to believe it.....and its pretty hard to see the world end as an outside observer, so I guess I will never believe now will I?
Oh, and since you don't like my last Richard Feynman quote, here is one he said on his death bed
QUOTE
"I'd hate to die twice. It's so boring"
He has some great quotes....let me post some others, just because I find them so amusing.
"Mathematics is not real, but it feels real. Where is this place?"
# "What I cannot create, I do not understand." (Taken from his chalkboard after his death.)
# "Know how to solve every problem that has ever been solved." (Taken from his chalkboard after his death.)
"I cannot define the real problem, therefore I suspect there's no real problem, but I'm not sure there's no real problem." (about Quantum Mechanics)
What an interesting character. Anyone who hasn't read about Richard Feynman I suggest they do. He was very interesting, and led quite the extraordinary life.
Cheers everyone.
QUOTE (newguy+Mar 21 2006, 11:56 PM)
QUOTE (spaghettihoop+Mar 21 2006, 08:41 PM)
(newguy)
Bloody Hell! Do you actually see the Demons come out or do you just work with people who have mental health problems?
spaghettihoop: No, I've never actually seen the demons come out. I have seen ALL SORTS, and I mean ALL SORTS, of wild manifestations, though, and I've seen immediate healings take place before my very eyes on a multitude of different occasions. I have also(no sense in holding back) heard demons scream when coming out of people. And, no, probably 90% of the time it wasn't/isn't "mental" problems that I was/am dealing with...mostly physical torment(paralysis, deafness, fever, etc.).
Bloody Hell! Do you actually see the Demons come out or do you just work with people who have mental health problems?
spaghettihoop: No, I've never actually seen the demons come out. I have seen ALL SORTS, and I mean ALL SORTS, of wild manifestations, though, and I've seen immediate healings take place before my very eyes on a multitude of different occasions. I have also(no sense in holding back) heard demons scream when coming out of people. And, no, probably 90% of the time it wasn't/isn't "mental" problems that I was/am dealing with...mostly physical torment(paralysis, deafness, fever, etc.).
PS: I'm just attempting to joke with you, Newsie. Please don't take offense to anything in this post
sinned34: No offense taken. Actually, and I trust that you've read enough of my posts to know that I'm not the type to flatter, I genuinely appreciate the sincerity of your posts, whether I agree with the content or not. Have a good one.
Have a video of any of these events?
QUOTE
Like continuing to cast demons out of people in Jesus Christ's name, just like I've done for many, many years. What think ye of that?
Bloody Hell! Do you actually see the Demons come out or do you just work with people who have mental health problems?
spaghettihoop: No, I've never actually seen the demons come out. I have seen ALL SORTS, and I mean ALL SORTS, of wild manifestations, though, and I've seen immediate healings take place before my very eyes on a multitude of different occasions. I have also(no sense in holding back) heard demons scream when coming out of people. And, no, probably 90% of the time it wasn't/isn't "mental" problems that I was/am dealing with...mostly physical torment(paralysis, deafness, fever, etc.).
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| Like continuing to cast demons out of people in Jesus Christ's name, just like I've done for many, many years. What think ye of that? |
Bloody Hell! Do you actually see the Demons come out or do you just work with people who have mental health problems?
spaghettihoop: No, I've never actually seen the demons come out. I have seen ALL SORTS, and I mean ALL SORTS, of wild manifestations, though, and I've seen immediate healings take place before my very eyes on a multitude of different occasions. I have also(no sense in holding back) heard demons scream when coming out of people. And, no, probably 90% of the time it wasn't/isn't "mental" problems that I was/am dealing with...mostly physical torment(paralysis, deafness, fever, etc.).
PS: I'm just attempting to joke with you, Newsie. Please don't take offense to anything in this post
sinned34: No offense taken. Actually, and I trust that you've read enough of my posts to know that I'm not the type to flatter, I genuinely appreciate the sincerity of your posts, whether I agree with the content or not. Have a good one.
Have a video of any of these events?
QUOTE (CommonSense+)
Have a video of any of these events?
Common Sense: No, I deliberately do not. I haven't really had any discussions with you in the past, so I'm assuming that you don't know too much about my background. I'm NOT into "theatrics" nor am I out to win any arguments. I'm strictly into people and genuinely trying to help them. I have had many different people over the years witness the things that I've briefly described. Ironically, many of the witnesses were people that refused to ever let me pray for them, but they were more than willing to introduce me to friends or family members that needed help.
Steveo: The Creation/Evolution forum is kind of dead, isn't it? Maybe we can "resurrect it" by bringing back Messenger & Steve1957?
The wacky world of t-shirts is as wacky as ever. Between travel time and actual work time, I'm working 64 hours over the next 4 days. Throw in some sleep(I hope) and some showers and there's not too much time left for anything else. By the way, I never said that I didn't like Richard Feynman's quote. I just said that I felt sorry for him. I always "like" when someone speaks their mind. At the same time, I have a genuine distaste for hypocrites. One more thing, the Biblical definition of "dying twice" is anything but boring. Have a good one.
Common Sense: No, I deliberately do not. I haven't really had any discussions with you in the past, so I'm assuming that you don't know too much about my background. I'm NOT into "theatrics" nor am I out to win any arguments. I'm strictly into people and genuinely trying to help them. I have had many different people over the years witness the things that I've briefly described. Ironically, many of the witnesses were people that refused to ever let me pray for them, but they were more than willing to introduce me to friends or family members that needed help.
Steveo: The Creation/Evolution forum is kind of dead, isn't it? Maybe we can "resurrect it" by bringing back Messenger & Steve1957?
The wacky world of t-shirts is as wacky as ever. Between travel time and actual work time, I'm working 64 hours over the next 4 days. Throw in some sleep(I hope) and some showers and there's not too much time left for anything else. By the way, I never said that I didn't like Richard Feynman's quote. I just said that I felt sorry for him. I always "like" when someone speaks their mind. At the same time, I have a genuine distaste for hypocrites. One more thing, the Biblical definition of "dying twice" is anything but boring. Have a good one.
QUOTE (newguy+Mar 22 2006, 01:36 AM)
QUOTE (CommonSense+)
Have a video of any of these events?
Common Sense: No, I deliberately do not. I haven't really had any discussions with you in the past, so I'm assuming that you don't know too much about my background. I'm NOT into "theatrics" nor am I out to win any arguments. I'm strictly into people and genuinely trying to help them. I have had many different people over the years witness the things that I've briefly described. Ironically, many of the witnesses were people that refused to ever let me pray for them, but they were more than willing to introduce me to friends or family members that needed help.
Steveo: The Creation/Evolution forum is kind of dead, isn't it? Maybe we can "resurrect it" by bringing back Messenger & Steve1957? The wacky world of t-shirts is as wacky as ever. Between travel time and actual work time, I'm working 64 hours over the next 4 days. Throw in some sleep(I hope) and some showers and there's not too much time left for anything else. By the way, I never said that I didn't like Richard Feynman's quote. I just said that I felt sorry for him. I always "like" when someone speaks their mind. At the same time, I have a genuine distaste for hypocrites. One more thing, the Biblical definition of "dying twice" is anything but boring. Have a good one.
I didn't think so.
Common Sense: No, I deliberately do not. I haven't really had any discussions with you in the past, so I'm assuming that you don't know too much about my background. I'm NOT into "theatrics" nor am I out to win any arguments. I'm strictly into people and genuinely trying to help them. I have had many different people over the years witness the things that I've briefly described. Ironically, many of the witnesses were people that refused to ever let me pray for them, but they were more than willing to introduce me to friends or family members that needed help.
Steveo: The Creation/Evolution forum is kind of dead, isn't it? Maybe we can "resurrect it" by bringing back Messenger & Steve1957?
The wacky world of t-shirts is as wacky as ever. Between travel time and actual work time, I'm working 64 hours over the next 4 days. Throw in some sleep(I hope) and some showers and there's not too much time left for anything else. By the way, I never said that I didn't like Richard Feynman's quote. I just said that I felt sorry for him. I always "like" when someone speaks their mind. At the same time, I have a genuine distaste for hypocrites. One more thing, the Biblical definition of "dying twice" is anything but boring. Have a good one. I didn't think so.
QUOTE (newguy+Mar 21 2006, 06:36 PM)
QUOTE (CommonSense+)
Have a video of any of these events?
Common Sense: No, I deliberately do not. I haven't really had any discussions with you in the past, so I'm assuming that you don't know too much about my background. I'm NOT into "theatrics" nor am I out to win any arguments. I'm strictly into people and genuinely trying to help them. I have had many different people over the years witness the things that I've briefly described. Ironically, many of the witnesses were people that refused to ever let me pray for them, but they were more than willing to introduce me to friends or family members that needed help.
You say you deliberately do not ...
A question for you Newguy- while you may not be out to win arguments you do often bring up faith healing and casting out demons as ( I assume?) indications of the power of Jesus Christ and salvation through him.
A lot of people might be willing to at least consider the possibilities if given hard evidence, things that can be measured and tested. Some of those people might actually find salvation, not through the evidence themselves, but through the process that evidence intiated.
It seems to me that if you are going to offer people a route to salvation rahter than an eternity in hell you would want to offer up up everything you could to enable them to make a proper informed choice.
So, if you could provide such evidence, evidence that could lead to the eventual salvation of some, why deliberately choose not to?
( Perhaps you feel it is up to each individual to find his own way ... but that isn't the impression I get from your posts. )
Resurrect it so it can die twice? hahaha.
Hope you have enough time to eat in there. I would be awfully hungry without eating in 4 days. Yeah, but Richard Feynman was not, nor claimed to be the Messiah, and he deduced by his first death that IF he could die twice it would be boring again. Beautiful logic! hehe
See, for me this wouldn't be enough, because a plausible alternate explanation is that I've wigged out on acid and don't remember.
In fact, I can think of no 'miracles' that cannot be done through either technology or brain damage - meaning any miracles do not prove the existence of God.
See, for me this wouldn't be enough, because a plausible alternate explanation is that I've wigged out on acid and don't remember.
In fact, I can think of no 'miracles' that cannot be done through either technology or brain damage - meaning any miracles do not prove the existence of God.
No, they wouldn't prove the existence of God, but it might show that the "faithful" know something we don't.
Faith healing could be tested under rigorous and controlled conditions ( which would take care of the possibility it was an acid flashback ;-) )
If you took a number of people with diagnosed medical disorders, confirmed by multiple physicians, mix in some actors... then randomly assign them to healers ( also some being actors ) you could do a reasonable study to see if belivers had a better prognosis than non-believers, to see if it mattered whether the healer was real or not. Results could be compared to conventional medical treatment for the same conditions.
A clear result favouring healing of believers and non beleivers by real faith healers would be astoundingly significant. Whatever the source it would mean that some people had a genuine "healing power."
Of course, such a set up could be considered to be "testing" god, and some people may have a problem with that. I guess it depends on whether your view of god is one that accepts a questioning mind not.
Resurrect it so it can die twice? hahaha.
Hope you have enough time to eat in there. I would be awfully hungry without eating in 4 days. Yeah, but Richard Feynman was not, nor claimed to be the Messiah, and he deduced by his first death that IF he could die twice it would be boring again. Beautiful logic! hehe
Steveo: I left for work at 6:00 a.m. and just got home at midnight. I didn't think I had enough energy to "chuckle", but your line about resurrecting the Creation/Evolution forum so that it could "die twice" really "hit the spot". Yeah, I forgot about the eating part...only in my post, that is. This cold front from Canada is hurting my business. You and sinned34 conjuring up spells or something? Only kidding. Talk to you later.
Common Sense & grendle: I'll do my best to get to your posts tomorrow, after I've had some sleep. Talk to you later.
Common Sense: No, I deliberately do not. I haven't really had any discussions with you in the past, so I'm assuming that you don't know too much about my background. I'm NOT into "theatrics" nor am I out to win any arguments. I'm strictly into people and genuinely trying to help them. I have had many different people over the years witness the things that I've briefly described. Ironically, many of the witnesses were people that refused to ever let me pray for them, but they were more than willing to introduce me to friends or family members that needed help.
You say you deliberately do not ...
A question for you Newguy- while you may not be out to win arguments you do often bring up faith healing and casting out demons as ( I assume?) indications of the power of Jesus Christ and salvation through him.
A lot of people might be willing to at least consider the possibilities if given hard evidence, things that can be measured and tested. Some of those people might actually find salvation, not through the evidence themselves, but through the process that evidence intiated.
It seems to me that if you are going to offer people a route to salvation rahter than an eternity in hell you would want to offer up up everything you could to enable them to make a proper informed choice.
So, if you could provide such evidence, evidence that could lead to the eventual salvation of some, why deliberately choose not to?
( Perhaps you feel it is up to each individual to find his own way ... but that isn't the impression I get from your posts. )
Common Sense & grendle: I don't know how familiar either one of you are with what transpires regularly within the so-called "Christian"(in quotes, deliberately) world. I do know, from past conversations, that sinned34 is pretty familiar with certain things, including the so-called "deliverance"(casting out of demons) ministry. For example, sinned34 has mentioned Bob Larsen in the past. Bob Larsen, in my opinion, is a SHOWMAN. I've seen VIDEOS of his(and many other so-called "ministers") where he is supposedly casting demons out of people. It was a CIRCUS, as far as I'm concerned. The cameras followed his every move...the microphone was moved from his mouth to the person's mouth to catch what the demons were saying...etc., etc., etc. Bob Larsen is but ONE of a very large segment of professing "Christianity" that use such "methods". As far as I'm concerned, these are people that are FULL OF PRIDE and are only out to make a name for THEMSELVES, while simultaneously exploiting the very people that they should be helping. Their "cause" is NOT really the gospel of Christ. The scriptures are very clear that God resists the proud and gives grace unto the humble. Once someone seeks "to make a name for themselves"...well, they are the ones who will ultimately need "deliverance". As I've mentioned in the past, I used to preach fairly regularly on the streets. There was at least one case where someone was "delivered" of evil spirits right on the streets of the Bronx, NY. There was a HUGE crowd gathered around to witness that event(including the police and EMS workers...somebody(ies) called them). In this instance, it was my wife(she wasn't my wife at the time) that prayed deliverance for a woman. Perhaps, when I have more free time(I'm getting ready to leave for work...I've got a 17 hour work day ahead of me), I'll give you the full account. Additionally, I have often(almost every single instance) had other people there when praying "deliverance" for someone. For me to "bring a film crew", so to speak, as far as I'm concerned, would be to "tempt God". I'm NOT saying that it couldn't be done in genuine humility...I am saying that it is a very fine line that I haven't been willing to walk, thus far. It might interest you to know(maybe it won't) that MANY of the people who have witnessed "deliverance" with their very own eyes still hardened their hearts to the gospel of Jesus Christ. As I mentioned in my previous post, many of the people that I've prayed for have been "recommended" to me by those who refused to let me pray deliverance for them. Additionally, some of the very people who have been "delivered" have hardened their hearts against God...a very large percentage, as a matter of fact. As I've also mentioned in the past, "deliverance" and healing do not, in and of themselves, equal salvation. The "root" issue is an issue of sin and freedom from it that is available through Jesus Christ. This is what God is after(me too). I don't mean this next statement to sound facetious(this is a very serious matter), but, as I've also stated in the past:
HAVE BIBLE, WILL TRAVEL.
I've never(since becoming a Christian) done anything "in the dark". I "hide in plain sight". I'm willing to help anyone who genuinely desires help...just leave the "film crews" outside, please. Gotta run. I'm open to more dialogue, but my work schedule is extremely hectic until late Sunday evening. Talk to you later.
HAVE BIBLE, WILL TRAVEL.
I've never(since becoming a Christian) done anything "in the dark". I "hide in plain sight". I'm willing to help anyone who genuinely desires help...just leave the "film crews" outside, please. Gotta run. I'm open to more dialogue, but my work schedule is extremely hectic until late Sunday evening. Talk to you later.
SO newguy, you're really a defender of your faith. But I don't think there's a need to believe in the Bible. Just simple faith will do. Anyways, you don't need to prove your claim when you speak of religion.
I know a lot more than you think I know about this.
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/week510/cover.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2003/godonbrainqa.shtml
And that's only the tip of my iceberg. To understand it clearly you may want to learn about Evolutionary Psychology.
Until I see a hand grow back before my eyes (Or some other impossible miracle) I will assume this is all illusions of the brain. Just like some people have large and small noses, some have more or less activity in this part of the brain. The more activity, the more likely the person will easily believe in an all powerful entity. Events will be exaggerated like demons being cast out in public. Was there an event which could be massaged into this definition? I have little doubt. But ACTUAL demons being cast out is another story unproven in the history of man.
We're just chimps following the alpha-male. We satisfy our instincts to follow the alpha-male by convincing ourselves of an all powerful entity above all to follow. Our primate brain's logic is clouded by our instinctual primate need. Our instincts are so honed over a billion years that we don't even know this seamless effect is happening. So when a group comes together to pray for a God it's no different than a primate group coming together around an alpha male. We are told this all powerful entity should be feared much like primates fear the alpha.
There is much more to this but this is the short verson of what I have concluded after some 20 years of looking into this.
That's why I need more evidence than just "Believe me".
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/week510/cover.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2003/godonbrainqa.shtml
And that's only the tip of my iceberg. To understand it clearly you may want to learn about Evolutionary Psychology.
Until I see a hand grow back before my eyes (Or some other impossible miracle) I will assume this is all illusions of the brain. Just like some people have large and small noses, some have more or less activity in this part of the brain. The more activity, the more likely the person will easily believe in an all powerful entity. Events will be exaggerated like demons being cast out in public. Was there an event which could be massaged into this definition? I have little doubt. But ACTUAL demons being cast out is another story unproven in the history of man.
We're just chimps following the alpha-male. We satisfy our instincts to follow the alpha-male by convincing ourselves of an all powerful entity above all to follow. Our primate brain's logic is clouded by our instinctual primate need. Our instincts are so honed over a billion years that we don't even know this seamless effect is happening. So when a group comes together to pray for a God it's no different than a primate group coming together around an alpha male. We are told this all powerful entity should be feared much like primates fear the alpha.
There is much more to this but this is the short verson of what I have concluded after some 20 years of looking into this.
That's why I need more evidence than just "Believe me".
QUOTE
Steveo: The Creation/Evolution forum is kind of dead, isn't it? Maybe we can "resurrect it" by bringing back Messenger & Steve1957? blink.gif The wacky world of t-shirts is as wacky as ever. Between travel time and actual work time, I'm working 64 hours over the next 4 days. Throw in some sleep(I hope) and some showers and there's not too much time left for anything else. By the way, I never said that I didn't like Richard Feynman's quote. I just said that I felt sorry for him. I always "like" when someone speaks their mind. At the same time, I have a genuine distaste for hypocrites. One more thing, the Biblical definition of "dying twice" is anything but boring. Have a good one.
Resurrect it so it can die twice? hahaha.
Hope you have enough time to eat in there. I would be awfully hungry without eating in 4 days. Yeah, but Richard Feynman was not, nor claimed to be the Messiah, and he deduced by his first death that IF he could die twice it would be boring again. Beautiful logic! hehe
QUOTE
Until I see a hand grow back before my eyes (Or some other impossible miracle) I will assume this is all illusions of the brain.
See, for me this wouldn't be enough, because a plausible alternate explanation is that I've wigged out on acid and don't remember.
In fact, I can think of no 'miracles' that cannot be done through either technology or brain damage - meaning any miracles do not prove the existence of God.
the world is not ending in 6 years. why would it? the only thing that could conceivably accomplish this is a nuclear winter and then what ever survives will just continue on and evolution will continue. it'll only end for us and most living organisms so it's not the end of the world. it's just the end of our existance.
QUOTE (El_Machinae+Mar 22 2006, 08:25 PM)
QUOTE
Until I see a hand grow back before my eyes (Or some other impossible miracle) I will assume this is all illusions of the brain.
See, for me this wouldn't be enough, because a plausible alternate explanation is that I've wigged out on acid and don't remember.
In fact, I can think of no 'miracles' that cannot be done through either technology or brain damage - meaning any miracles do not prove the existence of God.
No, they wouldn't prove the existence of God, but it might show that the "faithful" know something we don't.
Faith healing could be tested under rigorous and controlled conditions ( which would take care of the possibility it was an acid flashback ;-) )
If you took a number of people with diagnosed medical disorders, confirmed by multiple physicians, mix in some actors... then randomly assign them to healers ( also some being actors ) you could do a reasonable study to see if belivers had a better prognosis than non-believers, to see if it mattered whether the healer was real or not. Results could be compared to conventional medical treatment for the same conditions.
A clear result favouring healing of believers and non beleivers by real faith healers would be astoundingly significant. Whatever the source it would mean that some people had a genuine "healing power."
Of course, such a set up could be considered to be "testing" god, and some people may have a problem with that. I guess it depends on whether your view of god is one that accepts a questioning mind not.
QUOTE (Steveo+Mar 22 2006, 04:01 PM)
QUOTE
Steveo: The Creation/Evolution forum is kind of dead, isn't it? Maybe we can "resurrect it" by bringing back Messenger & Steve1957? blink.gif The wacky world of t-shirts is as wacky as ever. Between travel time and actual work time, I'm working 64 hours over the next 4 days. Throw in some sleep(I hope) and some showers and there's not too much time left for anything else. By the way, I never said that I didn't like Richard Feynman's quote. I just said that I felt sorry for him. I always "like" when someone speaks their mind. At the same time, I have a genuine distaste for hypocrites. One more thing, the Biblical definition of "dying twice" is anything but boring. Have a good one.
Resurrect it so it can die twice? hahaha.
Hope you have enough time to eat in there. I would be awfully hungry without eating in 4 days. Yeah, but Richard Feynman was not, nor claimed to be the Messiah, and he deduced by his first death that IF he could die twice it would be boring again. Beautiful logic! hehe
Steveo: I left for work at 6:00 a.m. and just got home at midnight. I didn't think I had enough energy to "chuckle", but your line about resurrecting the Creation/Evolution forum so that it could "die twice" really "hit the spot". Yeah, I forgot about the eating part...only in my post, that is. This cold front from Canada is hurting my business. You and sinned34 conjuring up spells or something? Only kidding. Talk to you later.
Common Sense & grendle: I'll do my best to get to your posts tomorrow, after I've had some sleep. Talk to you later.
QUOTE (El_Machinae+Mar 18 2006, 04:46 PM)
I think Kyoto kicks in.
We might have $1000 DNA sequencing by then too.
All I can say is woot.
"End of the world" -- more often means, end of the system, or system/worldy revolution; most often because of technologies. The church lost control of the government in many ways, for example.
Eventually, our evolution and our "nature" will loose control of us, wont they?
We might have $1000 DNA sequencing by then too.
All I can say is woot.
"End of the world" -- more often means, end of the system, or system/worldy revolution; most often because of technologies. The church lost control of the government in many ways, for example.
Eventually, our evolution and our "nature" will loose control of us, wont they?
QUOTE (newguy+Mar 22 2006, 10:13 PM)
Common Sense & grendle: I'll do my best to get to your posts tomorrow, after I've had some sleep. Talk to you later.
No rush, Newguy. I'm going to be spending a lot of time over the next few days with a dying parent, so when I am in here to read things it will just be as a distraction from the rest anyway.
And if our Canadian weather is hurting T shirt sales, you could always start selling touques
No rush, Newguy. I'm going to be spending a lot of time over the next few days with a dying parent, so when I am in here to read things it will just be as a distraction from the rest anyway.
And if our Canadian weather is hurting T shirt sales, you could always start selling touques
QUOTE (grendle+Mar 24 2006, 03:02 AM)
QUOTE (newguy+Mar 22 2006, 10:13 PM)
Common Sense & grendle: I'll do my best to get to your posts tomorrow, after I've had some sleep. Talk to you later.
No rush, Newguy. I'm going to be spending a lot of time over the next few days with a dying parent, so when I am in here to read things it will just be as a distraction from the rest anyway.
And if our Canadian weather is hurting T shirt sales, you could always start selling touques
grendle: Sorry to hear about your parent's approaching death. I lost my Dad a few years ago. Ironically, my best friend's mother died two days ago and I have to go out of state this morning to the funeral. I'll try to get to your post tonight. Touques???
Glad my attempt at humor hit the spot! Hey, I can't control the weather.....take a look on the global warming threads.....huge arguements there. And touques are articles of clothing that keep your head warm in the winter.
No rush, Newguy. I'm going to be spending a lot of time over the next few days with a dying parent, so when I am in here to read things it will just be as a distraction from the rest anyway.
And if our Canadian weather is hurting T shirt sales, you could always start selling touques
grendle: Sorry to hear about your parent's approaching death. I lost my Dad a few years ago. Ironically, my best friend's mother died two days ago and I have to go out of state this morning to the funeral. I'll try to get to your post tonight. Touques???
QUOTE
Steveo: I left for work at 6:00 a.m. and just got home at midnight. I didn't think I had enough energy to "chuckle", but your line about resurrecting the Creation/Evolution forum so that it could "die twice" really "hit the spot". Yeah, I forgot about the eating part...only in my post, that is. This cold front from Canada is hurting my business. You and sinned34 conjuring up spells or something? Only kidding. Talk to you later
Glad my attempt at humor hit the spot! Hey, I can't control the weather.....take a look on the global warming threads.....huge arguements there. And touques are articles of clothing that keep your head warm in the winter.
Touque ( english canadian spelling )
All part of our master plan to take over the world and install a Tim Horton's on every corner
( Okay, I'll ease off on the canadian culture references now )
All part of our master plan to take over the world and install a Tim Horton's on every corner
( Okay, I'll ease off on the canadian culture references now
)
QUOTE (grendle+)
A question for you Newguy- while you may not be out to win arguments you do often bring up faith healing and casting out demons as ( I assume?) indications of the power of Jesus Christ and salvation through him.
grendle: One of the reasons that I "bring up faith healing and casting out demons" so frequently is because, in the past, many people on this forum were demanding "tangible evidence". If I tell you that I've been "born again" of the Holy Spirit of God, which I have been, then how could I possibly prove this to you "tangibly"? What "evidence" could I present to show you that my body is now the temple of the Holy Spirit and that I have communion or fellowship with God, Spirit to spirit? It could be argued, and rightly so, that the evidence of this "new birth" would be a "new life". Jesus did say that you will know a tree by its fruit. However, a "new life", in and of itself, rarely, if ever, will satisfy the "skeptic". The "skeptic" will inevitably say that the individual merely turned over a "new leaf". When it comes to the areas of faith healing and deliverance(casting out demons), there is, oftentimes, "tangible evidence". For example, if someone was paralyzed and then was no longer paralyzed after being prayed for in Jesus Christ's name, then there would be something to "see". Another reason that I "bring up faith healing and casting out demons" so frequently is because almost all, if not all, of the examples of "Christianity"(in quotes, deliberately) that are offered by the *AHEM* "unbiased scientists" on this forum have to do with such attrocities as the Crusades, Inquisitions, Jim Jones/Guyana, Timothy McVeigh/Oklahoma City bombing, Eric Rudolph/abortion clinic bombings, Adolph Hitler/Nazi Germany, Galileo's condemnation by the Roman Catholic church, etc., etc., etc. NONE of these things have the least bit to do with true Christianity. As a Christian, I am out to HELP people. It is said of Christ:
"How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him."(Acts 10:38)
I'll continue to HELP people by following in Christ's footsteps of "doing good" and "healing". Another very important reason why I "bring up faith healing and casting out demons" so frequently is to refute this "blind faith" garbage that is so often "put out by the curb" by so many of the *AHEM* "unbiased scientists" on this forum. My "faith" is NOT "blind". I've "seen" plenty and I mean PLENTY! The definition of "faith" that is constantly used by the *AHEM* "unbiased scientists" on this forum is nothing less than a STRAWMAN...at least in my opinion, for whatever that's worth.
grendle: One of the reasons that I "bring up faith healing and casting out demons" so frequently is because, in the past, many people on this forum were demanding "tangible evidence". If I tell you that I've been "born again" of the Holy Spirit of God, which I have been, then how could I possibly prove this to you "tangibly"? What "evidence" could I present to show you that my body is now the temple of the Holy Spirit and that I have communion or fellowship with God, Spirit to spirit? It could be argued, and rightly so, that the evidence of this "new birth" would be a "new life". Jesus did say that you will know a tree by its fruit. However, a "new life", in and of itself, rarely, if ever, will satisfy the "skeptic". The "skeptic" will inevitably say that the individual merely turned over a "new leaf". When it comes to the areas of faith healing and deliverance(casting out demons), there is, oftentimes, "tangible evidence". For example, if someone was paralyzed and then was no longer paralyzed after being prayed for in Jesus Christ's name, then there would be something to "see". Another reason that I "bring up faith healing and casting out demons" so frequently is because almost all, if not all, of the examples of "Christianity"(in quotes, deliberately) that are offered by the *AHEM* "unbiased scientists" on this forum have to do with such attrocities as the Crusades, Inquisitions, Jim Jones/Guyana, Timothy McVeigh/Oklahoma City bombing, Eric Rudolph/abortion clinic bombings, Adolph Hitler/Nazi Germany, Galileo's condemnation by the Roman Catholic church, etc., etc., etc. NONE of these things have the least bit to do with true Christianity. As a Christian, I am out to HELP people. It is said of Christ:
"How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him."(Acts 10:38)
I'll continue to HELP people by following in Christ's footsteps of "doing good" and "healing". Another very important reason why I "bring up faith healing and casting out demons" so frequently is to refute this "blind faith" garbage that is so often "put out by the curb" by so many of the *AHEM* "unbiased scientists" on this forum. My "faith" is NOT "blind". I've "seen" plenty and I mean PLENTY! The definition of "faith" that is constantly used by the *AHEM* "unbiased scientists" on this forum is nothing less than a STRAWMAN...at least in my opinion, for whatever that's worth.
QUOTE (grendle+)
If you took a number of people with diagnosed medical disorders, confirmed by multiple physicians, mix in some actors... then randomly assign them to healers ( also some being actors ) you could do a reasonable study to see if belivers had a better prognosis than non-believers, to see if it mattered whether the healer was real or not. Results could be compared to conventional medical treatment for the same conditions.
A clear result favouring healing of believers and non beleivers by real faith healers would be astoundingly significant. Whatever the source it would mean that some people had a genuine "healing power."
First of all, you wouldn't need to go out and search for "actors"...many of the people within professing Christianity with "healing ministries" are "actors" already. "Actors" are the ones who love to be seen "on camera", you know. What about the people who are genuinely ill? Why do they need to be exploited in such a way as to convince "skeptics"(I'm not mocking your "skepticism") like yourself? As I've already stated, I have personally seen very large numbers of people who have witnessed either healings or deliverance from evil spirits in another individual with their own eyes and have still hardened their heart towards God and Christ. The scriptures bear record of the same. Here are a couple of examples:
"Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his might works were done, because they repented not..."
(Matthew 11:20)
The witnessing of Jesus' "mighty works" did not bring many people to the place of repentance.
"And while he yet spake, behold a multitude, and he that was called Judas, one of the twelve, went before them, and drew near unto Jesus to kiss him. But Jesus said unto him, Judas, betrayest thou the Son of man with a kiss? When they which were about him saw what would follow, they said unto him, Lord, shall we smite with the sword? And one of them smote the servant of the high priest, and cut off his right ear. And Jesus answered and said, Suffer ye thus far. And he touched his ear, and healed him. Then Jesus said unto the chief priests, and captains of the temple, and the elders, which were come to him, Be ye come out, as against a thief, with swords and staves? When I was daily with you in the temple, ye stretched forth no hands against me: but this is your hour, and the power of darkness. Then took they him, and led him, and brought him into the high priest's house."(Luke 22:47-54)
While Jesus was being arrested in the Garden of Gethsemane, Peter(mentioned by name in another gospel account) drew out his sword and cut off the right ear of the servant of the high priest. Jesus stretched forth his hand and healed the servant's ear in front of everybody present. Did any of them, specifically the man who was "healed", fall on their knees and hail Him as their King? NO! They went right on and arrested Him that He might ultimately be crucified. Healing, as I've stated several times in the past, does not equal or necessarily lead to salvation. The "hard of heart" won't "believe", no matter what they "see". As I said, I have witnessed this firsthand many, many times. Some of my worst enemies on this planet are people that I've either cast demons out of in Jesus Christ's name or successsfully prayed healing for in Jesus Christ's name. The "problem", as I've also mentioned in the past, is that I didn't stop with their "deliverance" or "healing"...I spoke to them about that dreaded issue of SIN. You think people don't love their SIN more than God? I'll tell you, THEY DO. This, according to Jesus Christ, is why men will ultimately be condemned.
"And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God."(John 3:19-21)
Additionally, why do you need to "witness" something taking place in others to convince you? Why not have something take place WITHIN YOURSELF to convince you? As a Christian, I am called to the following:
"Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God."(II Corinthians 5:20)
As an "ambassador for Christ", one who is here in Christ's "stead" or in Christ's "behalf", my desire is for you to be "reconciled to God". This is the crux of Christianity. There are many verses of scripture within the Bible, you know. I could have chosen any one of them for the "quote" at the bottom of my posts. I deliberately chose the following.
"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."
(John 17:3)
My genuine desire for you, and for everyone else on this planet, is that you would KNOW GOD yourself. I don't want anyone "riding on my coattails", so to speak. You, as can everyone else, can have the Spirit of God dwelling inside of you, personally. That is what God is after and that is what I am after. The "problem" is that God's Spirit isn't called the HOLY Spirit for nothing. Much of the "communion" or "fellowship" that one will experience with God's Spirit will be in regards to working genuine HOLINESS within that individual. This, according to my many years of personal observation, is what really keeps most people(I didn't say "all" people) away from KNOWING GOD.
Common Sense: NO. I don't want you to just "Believe me", as I've hopefully just explained to grendle. I want everyone to KNOW GOD themselves as "this is life eternal".
A clear result favouring healing of believers and non beleivers by real faith healers would be astoundingly significant. Whatever the source it would mean that some people had a genuine "healing power."
First of all, you wouldn't need to go out and search for "actors"...many of the people within professing Christianity with "healing ministries" are "actors" already. "Actors" are the ones who love to be seen "on camera", you know.
What about the people who are genuinely ill? Why do they need to be exploited in such a way as to convince "skeptics"(I'm not mocking your "skepticism") like yourself? As I've already stated, I have personally seen very large numbers of people who have witnessed either healings or deliverance from evil spirits in another individual with their own eyes and have still hardened their heart towards God and Christ. The scriptures bear record of the same. Here are a couple of examples:"Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his might works were done, because they repented not..."
(Matthew 11:20)
The witnessing of Jesus' "mighty works" did not bring many people to the place of repentance.
"And while he yet spake, behold a multitude, and he that was called Judas, one of the twelve, went before them, and drew near unto Jesus to kiss him. But Jesus said unto him, Judas, betrayest thou the Son of man with a kiss? When they which were about him saw what would follow, they said unto him, Lord, shall we smite with the sword? And one of them smote the servant of the high priest, and cut off his right ear. And Jesus answered and said, Suffer ye thus far. And he touched his ear, and healed him. Then Jesus said unto the chief priests, and captains of the temple, and the elders, which were come to him, Be ye come out, as against a thief, with swords and staves? When I was daily with you in the temple, ye stretched forth no hands against me: but this is your hour, and the power of darkness. Then took they him, and led him, and brought him into the high priest's house."(Luke 22:47-54)
While Jesus was being arrested in the Garden of Gethsemane, Peter(mentioned by name in another gospel account) drew out his sword and cut off the right ear of the servant of the high priest. Jesus stretched forth his hand and healed the servant's ear in front of everybody present. Did any of them, specifically the man who was "healed", fall on their knees and hail Him as their King? NO! They went right on and arrested Him that He might ultimately be crucified. Healing, as I've stated several times in the past, does not equal or necessarily lead to salvation. The "hard of heart" won't "believe", no matter what they "see". As I said, I have witnessed this firsthand many, many times. Some of my worst enemies on this planet are people that I've either cast demons out of in Jesus Christ's name or successsfully prayed healing for in Jesus Christ's name. The "problem", as I've also mentioned in the past, is that I didn't stop with their "deliverance" or "healing"...I spoke to them about that dreaded issue of SIN. You think people don't love their SIN more than God? I'll tell you, THEY DO. This, according to Jesus Christ, is why men will ultimately be condemned.
"And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God."(John 3:19-21)
Additionally, why do you need to "witness" something taking place in others to convince you? Why not have something take place WITHIN YOURSELF to convince you? As a Christian, I am called to the following:
"Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God."(II Corinthians 5:20)
As an "ambassador for Christ", one who is here in Christ's "stead" or in Christ's "behalf", my desire is for you to be "reconciled to God". This is the crux of Christianity. There are many verses of scripture within the Bible, you know. I could have chosen any one of them for the "quote" at the bottom of my posts. I deliberately chose the following.
"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."
(John 17:3)
My genuine desire for you, and for everyone else on this planet, is that you would KNOW GOD yourself. I don't want anyone "riding on my coattails", so to speak. You, as can everyone else, can have the Spirit of God dwelling inside of you, personally. That is what God is after and that is what I am after. The "problem" is that God's Spirit isn't called the HOLY Spirit for nothing. Much of the "communion" or "fellowship" that one will experience with God's Spirit will be in regards to working genuine HOLINESS within that individual. This, according to my many years of personal observation, is what really keeps most people(I didn't say "all" people) away from KNOWING GOD.
Common Sense: NO. I don't want you to just "Believe me", as I've hopefully just explained to grendle. I want everyone to KNOW GOD themselves as "this is life eternal".
This reply post in relation to Paulo Riven's post on the fist page of this topic.
I had read of all the posts prior to yours about this 2012 apocalyps inculding yours I decided I had better just Lookup the Philadelphia Experiment and have a read before jumping the gun and dismissing this `2012 Party Over of Time' as crock!
And guess what 2012 was mentioned in that account.
I looked at Http.//www.aglfire.com/id/PR/phillysteak.html
Title: Philadelphia Experiment:Montauk Experiment
The story is a very picturesque account of a suposed Experiment that Involved Einstien and Tesla.
Well Tesla has had the Tesla Coil named after him: So we can assume that it had something to with extreamly powefull magnetic fields created by massive currets and voltages through coils?
However the story didnt say how any device worked - well there was mention of generators firing up, some box containg the zero time point referance(What the heck could that be?), time travel through Hyperspace time loop 40 years into the future people included and then returning back in time to the 1940's
The rest the rest was a very picturesque account of the effects to crewmembers aboard the navy ship Elderidge - whe when the ship vanished/disapeared compeatly not mearly being invisible for several hours then materializing back where some crew members where inbeded in the steel stuctures of the ship like floors walls etc some dying some needing amputation to be freed.
Well I'm sceptical that that sort of thing could have been done aspecially with 1940's technology (The zero point time referance box thing sounds really sus)
I dare anyone to try to reproduce the experiment and the results published in a respected Scientific journal!
What i know of currently about using extreamly large currents passed through superconducting coils causing high Tesla Magnetic feild strengths - relates to reaserch into antigravity so that a spacecraft can levitate like a flying saucer and using that theretic antigravity system as a means of propulsion.
I had read of all the posts prior to yours about this 2012 apocalyps inculding yours I decided I had better just Lookup the Philadelphia Experiment and have a read before jumping the gun and dismissing this `2012 Party Over of Time' as crock!
And guess what 2012 was mentioned in that account.
I looked at Http.//www.aglfire.com/id/PR/phillysteak.html
Title: Philadelphia Experiment:Montauk Experiment
The story is a very picturesque account of a suposed Experiment that Involved Einstien and Tesla.
Well Tesla has had the Tesla Coil named after him: So we can assume that it had something to with extreamly powefull magnetic fields created by massive currets and voltages through coils?
However the story didnt say how any device worked - well there was mention of generators firing up, some box containg the zero time point referance(What the heck could that be?), time travel through Hyperspace time loop 40 years into the future people included and then returning back in time to the 1940's
The rest the rest was a very picturesque account of the effects to crewmembers aboard the navy ship Elderidge - whe when the ship vanished/disapeared compeatly not mearly being invisible for several hours then materializing back where some crew members where inbeded in the steel stuctures of the ship like floors walls etc some dying some needing amputation to be freed.
Well I'm sceptical that that sort of thing could have been done aspecially with 1940's technology (The zero point time referance box thing sounds really sus)
I dare anyone to try to reproduce the experiment and the results published in a respected Scientific journal!
What i know of currently about using extreamly large currents passed through superconducting coils causing high Tesla Magnetic feild strengths - relates to reaserch into antigravity so that a spacecraft can levitate like a flying saucer and using that theretic antigravity system as a means of propulsion.
Sinned, there is a guy in one of my classes that has a touque that looks just like a hockey helmet...complete with chin strap. I think it looks quite funny, however, I still find it amusing that they would design a touque that looks like a hockey helmet!
How 'bout them Oilers eh? Good weekend for Mac T and the boys! (I have been purposefully talking Canadian in the last sentence to try and exclude everyone except for Sinned and Grendle)
How 'bout them Oilers eh? Good weekend for Mac T and the boys! (I have been purposefully talking Canadian in the last sentence to try and exclude everyone except for Sinned and Grendle)
Newguy:
Glad to hear it. I'm notorious for my sense of humour, one that most people don't seem to "get" and is difficult to express properly through text.
Glad to hear it. I'm notorious for my sense of humour, one that most people don't seem to "get" and is difficult to express properly through text.
I don't know how familiar either one of you are with what transpires regularly within the so-called "Christian"(in quotes, deliberately) world. I do know, from past conversations, that sinned34 is pretty familiar with certain things, including the so-called "deliverance"(casting out of demons) ministry. For example, sinned34 has mentioned Bob Larsen in the past. Bob Larsen, in my opinion, is a SHOWMAN.
Yeah, I used to love Bob Larsen. I owned a couple of his books, and watched a handful of his videos. I saw a recent special on television that showed Bob up to his old tricks, and it made me a little embarrassed knowing that I once had fallen for that trash. Ah, well... Live and learn!
Yeah, I'm afraid that's my fault, Newsie: on the 24th I had to take a trip to Grand Rapids for business, so I sacrificed a beer to the Weather Gods (which means I drank it for Them) that Canadian weather would blanket the USA to make me feel more at home. I'm back now, so hopefully the weather will return to normal, eh?
Grendle:
Yeah, I'm afraid that's my fault, Newsie: on the 24th I had to take a trip to Grand Rapids for business, so I sacrificed a beer to the Weather Gods (which means I drank it for Them) that Canadian weather would blanket the USA to make me feel more at home. I'm back now, so hopefully the weather will return to normal, eh?
Grendle:
All part of our master plan to take over the world and install a Tim Horton's on every corner
Grendle, how DARE you let slip our plans to integrate our doughnuts, leafy pennies, and second-rate entertainers in a bid to eventually dominate American society?!?! Just for that, thou shalt be cursed to drink nothing but Bud Light next time you seek to sate your thirst! (That said, I committed a sin whilst in Grand Rapids: I did consume the fruit of Krispy Kreme, and did call it "good"!)
Steveo:
Yeah, you're not kidding! What happened to the CS/IDers? I can't believe that we crushed them beneath the Boot Of Logic & Reason +2. Perhaps they're off reading the opposing view instead of spending all their time on pro-creationist websites? I know, I know: it would take a miracle!
Yeah, you're not kidding! What happened to the CS/IDers? I can't believe that we crushed them beneath the Boot Of Logic & Reason +2. Perhaps they're off reading the opposing view instead of spending all their time on pro-creationist websites? I know, I know: it would take a miracle!
there is a guy in one of my classes that has a touque that looks just like a hockey helmet...complete with chin strap. I think it looks quite funny, however, I still find it amusing that they would design a touque that looks like a hockey helmet!
How 'bout them Oilers eh? Good weekend for Mac T and the boys! (I have been purposefully talking Canadian in the last sentence to try and exclude everyone except for Sinned and Grendle)
That's just great! I was in the USA for two of the three games against Vancouver, and I couldn't even get the scores on ESPN's ticker! I went to an IHL game in Grand Rapids, and it was brutal: the announcer had to tell the crowd when their team went onto a PP/PK instead of just announcing the penalties. I found myself spending 25% of the time explaining the nuances of the game to those in my section!
QUOTE
No offense taken. Actually, and I trust that you've read enough of my posts to know that I'm not the type to flatter, I genuinely appreciate the sincerity of your posts, whether I agree with the content or not. Have a good one.
Glad to hear it. I'm notorious for my sense of humour, one that most people don't seem to "get" and is difficult to express properly through text.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| No offense taken. Actually, and I trust that you've read enough of my posts to know that I'm not the type to flatter, I genuinely appreciate the sincerity of your posts, whether I agree with the content or not. Have a good one. |
Glad to hear it. I'm notorious for my sense of humour, one that most people don't seem to "get" and is difficult to express properly through text.
I don't know how familiar either one of you are with what transpires regularly within the so-called "Christian"(in quotes, deliberately) world. I do know, from past conversations, that sinned34 is pretty familiar with certain things, including the so-called "deliverance"(casting out of demons) ministry. For example, sinned34 has mentioned Bob Larsen in the past. Bob Larsen, in my opinion, is a SHOWMAN.
Yeah, I used to love Bob Larsen. I owned a couple of his books, and watched a handful of his videos. I saw a recent special on television that showed Bob up to his old tricks, and it made me a little embarrassed knowing that I once had fallen for that trash. Ah, well... Live and learn!
QUOTE
This cold front from Canada is hurting my business. You and sinned34 conjuring up spells or something? Only kidding. Talk to you later.
Yeah, I'm afraid that's my fault, Newsie: on the 24th I had to take a trip to Grand Rapids for business, so I sacrificed a beer to the Weather Gods (which means I drank it for Them) that Canadian weather would blanket the USA to make me feel more at home. I'm back now, so hopefully the weather will return to normal, eh?
Grendle:
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| This cold front from Canada is hurting my business. You and sinned34 conjuring up spells or something? Only kidding. Talk to you later. |
Yeah, I'm afraid that's my fault, Newsie: on the 24th I had to take a trip to Grand Rapids for business, so I sacrificed a beer to the Weather Gods (which means I drank it for Them) that Canadian weather would blanket the USA to make me feel more at home. I'm back now, so hopefully the weather will return to normal, eh?
Grendle:
All part of our master plan to take over the world and install a Tim Horton's on every corner
Grendle, how DARE you let slip our plans to integrate our doughnuts, leafy pennies, and second-rate entertainers in a bid to eventually dominate American society?!?! Just for that, thou shalt be cursed to drink nothing but Bud Light next time you seek to sate your thirst! (That said, I committed a sin whilst in Grand Rapids: I did consume the fruit of Krispy Kreme, and did call it "good"!)
Steveo:
QUOTE
It seems the creation/evolution forum has come grinding to a halt as of late. What gives? How else am I going to avoid work now? hahahaha just kidding....or am I???
Yeah, you're not kidding! What happened to the CS/IDers? I can't believe that we crushed them beneath the Boot Of Logic & Reason +2. Perhaps they're off reading the opposing view instead of spending all their time on pro-creationist websites? I know, I know: it would take a miracle!
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| It seems the creation/evolution forum has come grinding to a halt as of late. What gives? How else am I going to avoid work now? hahahaha just kidding....or am I??? |
Yeah, you're not kidding! What happened to the CS/IDers? I can't believe that we crushed them beneath the Boot Of Logic & Reason +2. Perhaps they're off reading the opposing view instead of spending all their time on pro-creationist websites? I know, I know: it would take a miracle!
there is a guy in one of my classes that has a touque that looks just like a hockey helmet...complete with chin strap. I think it looks quite funny, however, I still find it amusing that they would design a touque that looks like a hockey helmet!
How 'bout them Oilers eh? Good weekend for Mac T and the boys! (I have been purposefully talking Canadian in the last sentence to try and exclude everyone except for Sinned and Grendle)
That's just great! I was in the USA for two of the three games against Vancouver, and I couldn't even get the scores on ESPN's ticker! I went to an IHL game in Grand Rapids, and it was brutal: the announcer had to tell the crowd when their team went onto a PP/PK instead of just announcing the penalties. I found myself spending 25% of the time explaining the nuances of the game to those in my section!
sinned34: I'm supposed to be on a "sabbatical"...it will have to start after this post.
QUOTE (sinned34+)
Yeah, I used to love Bob Larsen. I owned a couple of his books, and watched a handful of his videos. I saw a recent special on television that showed Bob up to his old tricks, and it made me a little embarrassed knowing that I once had fallen for that trash. Ah, well... Live and learn!
Although I would be the first to agree with you that Bob Larsen's "tricks" are "trash", at the same time, there is true deliverance available through Jesus Christ. A few years ago, a pastor contacted the Star-Ledger newspaper after they did their story about my street preaching. The Star-Ledger called me and asked me if they could give this pastor my phone # and I agreed and the pastor called me. While on the phone, the topic of deliverance came up(What a surprise, eh?). He invited me to preach to his congregation the next week and I agreed. I gave close to a two hour teaching on the topic of deliverance. When the teaching was finished, I was basically shoved aside by this pastor and he began to employ Bob Larsen-like tactics upon the people. He asked me to join in with him and I refused. Needless to say, we had a "nice little talk" afterwards and...well, let's just say I won't be getting any more invitations to preach to his congregation any time soon. Anyhow, the reason these charlatans have no genuine results is simple: GOD RESISTS THE PROUD. I'm sorry...did you hear me way down there(steve52 has me way up here on my "high horse")? As I just recently suggested to grendle, it is the ACTORS that desire to be "on camera".
Oh, one more thing.
Ugh, I hope not. That New Years was my wife's turn to pick our activities.
Yes you might like to know the "end of times" is a literal metaphor!
Sinned, sentencing him to drink nothing but Bud Light? Wow, you must be mad. Hahaha. I would never even force my worst enemy to drink bud light hehe. They even sell Krispy Kreme donuts in the walmarts in southern Alberta now....apparently Edmonton was supposed to get one, but for whatever reason that fell through.
Sinned, sentencing him to drink nothing but Bud Light? Wow, you must be mad. Hahaha. I would never even force my worst enemy to drink bud light hehe. They even sell Krispy Kreme donuts in the walmarts in southern Alberta now....apparently Edmonton was supposed to get one, but for whatever reason that fell through.
That's just great! I was in the USA for two of the three games against Vancouver, and I couldn't even get the scores on ESPN's ticker! I went to an IHL game in Grand Rapids, and it was brutal: the announcer had to tell the crowd when their team went onto a PP/PK instead of just announcing the penalties. I found myself spending 25% of the time explaining the nuances of the game to those in my section! tongue.gif
Thats pretty crappy. What a double standard between Canadians travelling to America, verses the other way around. They can get all of their sports scores, and just have to put up with a bit of hockey and curling coverage, where as we don't even get our hockey scores unless we have the internet. So at the game you were the token Canadian eh? And I thought some states new a bit about Hockey......I hope the fans in Minnesota, and Detroit and Boston at least know the game a little bit.....
Yeah, I actually tried Bud Light for the first time on that trip. I was drinking a Guinness and was chatting up the bartender. She gave me a free glass of Bud Light when I told her I'd never actually drank that swill (she was the one to call it "swill" first), and after my first gulp I asked her why she gave me a pint of foamy water.
Yeah, I actually tried Bud Light for the first time on that trip. I was drinking a Guinness and was chatting up the bartender. She gave me a free glass of Bud Light when I told her I'd never actually drank that swill (she was the one to call it "swill" first), and after my first gulp I asked her why she gave me a pint of foamy water.
So at the game you were the token Canadian eh? And I thought some states new a bit about Hockey......I hope the fans in Minnesota, and Detroit and Boston at least know the game a little bit.....
To be fair, the gentleman seated behind me said he played hockey as a kid, and he seemed pretty clued in. Unfortunately, there were no fights (the linesmen jumped in too early a couple of times) so I didn't get to see if American fans really DO dislike fighting in hockey... At least the fans cheered and booed at the right times!
I have drunk Bud Light only once myself.....when they had the promotion with a free NFL DVD in it...can't remember what was supposed to be on it.....not only did I have to drink the stuff, but it was missing the advertised DVD.....Bud Light isn't even good enough for Beer bongs.....I think that night was the most beer bongs I have done before being drunk.
I have drunk Bud Light only once myself.....when they had the promotion with a free NFL DVD in it...can't remember what was supposed to be on it.....not only did I have to drink the stuff, but it was missing the advertised DVD.....Bud Light isn't even good enough for Beer bongs.....I think that night was the most beer bongs I have done before being drunk.
Q. What do Bud Light and sex in a canoe have in common?
A. They are both f--king close to water.
However, thats where the similarities end, because sex in a canoe would still be good.....Bud Light is terrible! haha
Although I would be the first to agree with you that Bob Larsen's "tricks" are "trash", at the same time, there is true deliverance available through Jesus Christ. A few years ago, a pastor contacted the Star-Ledger newspaper after they did their story about my street preaching. The Star-Ledger called me and asked me if they could give this pastor my phone # and I agreed and the pastor called me. While on the phone, the topic of deliverance came up(What a surprise, eh?). He invited me to preach to his congregation the next week and I agreed. I gave close to a two hour teaching on the topic of deliverance. When the teaching was finished, I was basically shoved aside by this pastor and he began to employ Bob Larsen-like tactics upon the people. He asked me to join in with him and I refused. Needless to say, we had a "nice little talk" afterwards and...well, let's just say I won't be getting any more invitations to preach to his congregation any time soon. Anyhow, the reason these charlatans have no genuine results is simple: GOD RESISTS THE PROUD. I'm sorry...did you hear me way down there(steve52 has me way up here on my "high horse")? As I just recently suggested to grendle, it is the ACTORS that desire to be "on camera".
Oh, one more thing.
QUOTE (sinned34+)
Yeah, you're not kidding! What happened to the CS/IDers? I can't believe that we crushed them beneath the Boot Of Logic & Reason +2. Perhaps they're off reading the opposing view instead of spending all their time on pro-creationist websites? I know, I know: it would take a miracle!
I think I might have "had a hand" in helping dismiss a few people...At least "a few fingers"???
I think I might have "had a hand" in helping dismiss a few people...At least "a few fingers"???
the answer is 42 (or was it 49?).
I plan to hide and watch. I will damn sure help it along if I can!!
A good shake up will do mankind (the survivors) good.
If we don't stop the breeding and growth of cities, our mother nature will. Perhaps the gods none here believe in will give y'all a glimpse before the major smack-down. For certain, we have a highly unstable culture built upon the idea if infinite expansion in a finite world. Just one small setback and the majority of our urban population will be in dire straits. Most are unprepared to live in the world our great-grandfathers lived in. Turn you eyes away when it happens. It will not be pretty.
I plan to hide and watch. I will damn sure help it along if I can!!
A good shake up will do mankind (the survivors) good.
If we don't stop the breeding and growth of cities, our mother nature will. Perhaps the gods none here believe in will give y'all a glimpse before the major smack-down. For certain, we have a highly unstable culture built upon the idea if infinite expansion in a finite world. Just one small setback and the majority of our urban population will be in dire straits. Most are unprepared to live in the world our great-grandfathers lived in. Turn you eyes away when it happens. It will not be pretty.
QUOTE (sinned34+Mar 20 2006, 10:55 AM)
QUOTE
So - come 2011, should we party like it's 1999?
Ugh, I hope not. That New Years was my wife's turn to pick our activities.
Yes you might like to know the "end of times" is a literal metaphor!
This is silly. Mark 13:32, 33:
But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the father. Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.
That proves to you that the end of the world is not 2012. It also proves that anyone who believes that 2012 is the end of the world is foolish.
When Jesus cast out "demons," I think he was healing the insane. After all, his perpose wasn't to explain to the people what insanity was, and the people thought that the insane were possessed by demons.
But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the father. Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.
That proves to you that the end of the world is not 2012. It also proves that anyone who believes that 2012 is the end of the world is foolish.
When Jesus cast out "demons," I think he was healing the insane. After all, his perpose wasn't to explain to the people what insanity was, and the people thought that the insane were possessed by demons.
QUOTE
Grendle, how DARE you let slip our plans to integrate our doughnuts, leafy pennies, and second-rate entertainers in a bid to eventually dominate American society?!?! Just for that, thou shalt be cursed to drink nothing but Bud Light next time you seek to sate your thirst! (That said, I committed a sin whilst in Grand Rapids: I did consume the fruit of Krispy Kreme, and did call it "good"!)
Sinned, sentencing him to drink nothing but Bud Light? Wow, you must be mad. Hahaha. I would never even force my worst enemy to drink bud light hehe. They even sell Krispy Kreme donuts in the walmarts in southern Alberta now....apparently Edmonton was supposed to get one, but for whatever reason that fell through.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| Grendle, how DARE you let slip our plans to integrate our doughnuts, leafy pennies, and second-rate entertainers in a bid to eventually dominate American society?!?! Just for that, thou shalt be cursed to drink nothing but Bud Light next time you seek to sate your thirst! (That said, I committed a sin whilst in Grand Rapids: I did consume the fruit of Krispy Kreme, and did call it "good"!) |
Sinned, sentencing him to drink nothing but Bud Light? Wow, you must be mad. Hahaha. I would never even force my worst enemy to drink bud light hehe. They even sell Krispy Kreme donuts in the walmarts in southern Alberta now....apparently Edmonton was supposed to get one, but for whatever reason that fell through.
That's just great! I was in the USA for two of the three games against Vancouver, and I couldn't even get the scores on ESPN's ticker! I went to an IHL game in Grand Rapids, and it was brutal: the announcer had to tell the crowd when their team went onto a PP/PK instead of just announcing the penalties. I found myself spending 25% of the time explaining the nuances of the game to those in my section! tongue.gif
Thats pretty crappy. What a double standard between Canadians travelling to America, verses the other way around. They can get all of their sports scores, and just have to put up with a bit of hockey and curling coverage, where as we don't even get our hockey scores unless we have the internet. So at the game you were the token Canadian eh? And I thought some states new a bit about Hockey......I hope the fans in Minnesota, and Detroit and Boston at least know the game a little bit.....
QUOTE
sentencing him to drink nothing but Bud Light? Wow, you must be mad. Hahaha. I would never even force my worst enemy to drink bud light hehe.
Yeah, I actually tried Bud Light for the first time on that trip. I was drinking a Guinness and was chatting up the bartender. She gave me a free glass of Bud Light when I told her I'd never actually drank that swill (she was the one to call it "swill" first), and after my first gulp I asked her why she gave me a pint of foamy water.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| sentencing him to drink nothing but Bud Light? Wow, you must be mad. Hahaha. I would never even force my worst enemy to drink bud light hehe. |
Yeah, I actually tried Bud Light for the first time on that trip. I was drinking a Guinness and was chatting up the bartender. She gave me a free glass of Bud Light when I told her I'd never actually drank that swill (she was the one to call it "swill" first), and after my first gulp I asked her why she gave me a pint of foamy water.
So at the game you were the token Canadian eh? And I thought some states new a bit about Hockey......I hope the fans in Minnesota, and Detroit and Boston at least know the game a little bit.....
To be fair, the gentleman seated behind me said he played hockey as a kid, and he seemed pretty clued in. Unfortunately, there were no fights (the linesmen jumped in too early a couple of times) so I didn't get to see if American fans really DO dislike fighting in hockey... At least the fans cheered and booed at the right times!
QUOTE (sinned34+Mar 27 2006, 02:14 PM)
Grendle, how DARE you let slip our plans to integrate our doughnuts, leafy pennies, and second-rate entertainers in a bid to eventually dominate American society?!?! Just for that, thou shalt be cursed to drink nothing but Bud Light next time you seek to sate your thirst! (That said, I committed a sin whilst in Grand Rapids: I did consume the fruit of Krispy Kreme, and did call it "good"!)
Hate to rain on your parade, but you Canadians ARE Americans, so how can you dominate American society??? I am a citizen of the United States of America, which is a country located in America........ and sharing space on the continent with Canada
Now all kidding aside, this thread is becoming funny. Keep it up! I *do* like the bantering. And thanks for the education on the "touque"! Heard the word before, but didn't recognize it in print, and didn't know what it was.
So I now know what a touque is, but not what will happen in 2012... Life goes on!
Hate to rain on your parade, but you Canadians ARE Americans, so how can you dominate American society??? I am a citizen of the United States of America, which is a country located in America........ and sharing space on the continent with Canada
Now all kidding aside, this thread is becoming funny. Keep it up! I *do* like the bantering. And thanks for the education on the "touque"! Heard the word before, but didn't recognize it in print, and didn't know what it was.
So I now know what a touque is, but not what will happen in 2012... Life goes on!
QUOTE (555Joshua+)
When Jesus cast out "demons," I think he was healing the insane. After all, his perpose wasn't to explain to the people what insanity was, and the people thought that the insane were possessed by demons.
555Joshua: Just for the record...
Jesus cast out a spirit that was causing a man to be dumb(unable to speak) and deaf(Mark 9:17-29)...
Jesus cast out a spirit that caused a woman to be bowed over for 18 years(Luke 13:11-13)...
Jesus cast out a spirit that caused a man to be dumb(unable to speak) and blind(Matthew 12:22)...
Etc., etc., etc. Some spirits/demons did cause mental illness, but many were directly related to physical ailments as well. Like I said, that was just for the record.
555Joshua: Just for the record...
Jesus cast out a spirit that was causing a man to be dumb(unable to speak) and deaf(Mark 9:17-29)...
Jesus cast out a spirit that caused a woman to be bowed over for 18 years(Luke 13:11-13)...
Jesus cast out a spirit that caused a man to be dumb(unable to speak) and blind(Matthew 12:22)...
Etc., etc., etc. Some spirits/demons did cause mental illness, but many were directly related to physical ailments as well. Like I said, that was just for the record.
QUOTE (sinned34+Mar 29 2006, 02:44 PM)
Yeah, I actually tried Bud Light for the first time on that trip.
Q. What do Bud Light and sex in a canoe have in common?
A. They are both f--king close to water.
Q. What do Bud Light and sex in a canoe have in common?
A. They are both f--king close to water.
QUOTE
Yeah, I actually tried Bud Light for the first time on that trip. I was drinking a Guinness and was chatting up the bartender. She gave me a free glass of Bud Light when I told her I'd never actually drank that swill (she was the one to call it "swill" first), and after my first gulp I asked her why she gave me a pint of foamy water.
I have drunk Bud Light only once myself.....when they had the promotion with a free NFL DVD in it...can't remember what was supposed to be on it.....not only did I have to drink the stuff, but it was missing the advertised DVD.....Bud Light isn't even good enough for Beer bongs.....I think that night was the most beer bongs I have done before being drunk.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| Yeah, I actually tried Bud Light for the first time on that trip. I was drinking a Guinness and was chatting up the bartender. She gave me a free glass of Bud Light when I told her I'd never actually drank that swill (she was the one to call it "swill" first), and after my first gulp I asked her why she gave me a pint of foamy water. |
I have drunk Bud Light only once myself.....when they had the promotion with a free NFL DVD in it...can't remember what was supposed to be on it.....not only did I have to drink the stuff, but it was missing the advertised DVD.....Bud Light isn't even good enough for Beer bongs.....I think that night was the most beer bongs I have done before being drunk.
Q. What do Bud Light and sex in a canoe have in common?
A. They are both f--king close to water.
However, thats where the similarities end, because sex in a canoe would still be good.....Bud Light is terrible! haha
QUOTE (Steveo+)
However, thats where the similarities end, because sex in a canoe would still be good.....Bud Light is terrible! haha
What if steve52,
was in your canoe...
In that case, I'd definitely opt for the green eggs and ham, instead.
What if steve52,
was in your canoe...
In that case, I'd definitely opt for the green eggs and ham, instead.
QUOTE (newguy+)
Jesus cast out a spirit that was causing a man to be dumb(unable to speak) and deaf(Mark 9:17-29)
Then what's the difference between being possessed by demons and inheriting a genetic desease? You can't tell me that angels turned bad are in the human genome. What I think is that these genetic sequences are in fact the "demons" Jesus spoke of. After all, they were wicked. And the screaming thing, I think that was an exaggeration made by the witnesses. I mean, how many times have the "demons" you cast out actually screamed?
You got me there, however when I think of sex in a canoe, or anywhere else, I think of it with the woman that I love.....sorry for not specifying. And in that case, I would jump out of the canoe and go swimming......no Bud Light, no canoe sex with Steve52, and no green eggs....is the ham green too? Or is it regular ham.....I do like ham!
You got me there, however when I think of sex in a canoe, or anywhere else, I think of it with the woman that I love.....sorry for not specifying. And in that case, I would jump out of the canoe and go swimming......no Bud Light, no canoe sex with Steve52, and no green eggs....is the ham green too? Or is it regular ham.....I do like ham!
You know what they say, "If it's good for you, you won't like it."
Not true......I like a couple of things that are good for me....however, I would argue that Bud Light is not good for you. First of all, its beer. Empty calories, and alcohol, which will dehydrate you, and make you drunk and act like a fool (however, getting drunk off of such a weak beer is debatable....but another issue I guess). Plus it tastes bad. Not good like beer, and not good like water.....sort of like gross water with a really bad aftertaste. Good beer (which varies for people - however the main agreement is that Bud Light does not fall into this category at all) has empty calories, and will make you get drunk and act like a fool, however it tastes good......so its better for you than Bud Light, 2 negatives, and a positive, compared to 3 negatives (or if you consider getting drunk and acting like a fool - which sometimes I do - a good thing, then its 1 and 2 negatives respectively)
Then what's the difference between being possessed by demons and inheriting a genetic desease? You can't tell me that angels turned bad are in the human genome. What I think is that these genetic sequences are in fact the "demons" Jesus spoke of. After all, they were wicked. And the screaming thing, I think that was an exaggeration made by the witnesses. I mean, how many times have the "demons" you cast out actually screamed?
QUOTE (Steveo+)
Sinned, sentencing him to drink nothing but Bud Light? Wow, you must be mad. Hahaha. I would never even force my worst enemy to drink bud light hehe.
You know what they say, "If it's good for you, you won't like it."
You know what they say, "If it's good for you, you won't like it."
QUOTE
What if steve52,
was in your canoe...
In that case, I'd definitely opt for the green eggs and ham, instead.
was in your canoe...
In that case, I'd definitely opt for the green eggs and ham, instead.
You got me there, however when I think of sex in a canoe, or anywhere else, I think of it with the woman that I love.....sorry for not specifying. And in that case, I would jump out of the canoe and go swimming......no Bud Light, no canoe sex with Steve52, and no green eggs....is the ham green too? Or is it regular ham.....I do like ham!
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| What if steve52, was in your canoe... In that case, I'd definitely opt for the green eggs and ham, instead. |
You got me there, however when I think of sex in a canoe, or anywhere else, I think of it with the woman that I love.....sorry for not specifying. And in that case, I would jump out of the canoe and go swimming......no Bud Light, no canoe sex with Steve52, and no green eggs....is the ham green too? Or is it regular ham.....I do like ham!
You know what they say, "If it's good for you, you won't like it."
Not true......I like a couple of things that are good for me....however, I would argue that Bud Light is not good for you. First of all, its beer. Empty calories, and alcohol, which will dehydrate you, and make you drunk and act like a fool (however, getting drunk off of such a weak beer is debatable....but another issue I guess). Plus it tastes bad. Not good like beer, and not good like water.....sort of like gross water with a really bad aftertaste. Good beer (which varies for people - however the main agreement is that Bud Light does not fall into this category at all) has empty calories, and will make you get drunk and act like a fool, however it tastes good......so its better for you than Bud Light, 2 negatives, and a positive, compared to 3 negatives (or if you consider getting drunk and acting like a fool - which sometimes I do - a good thing, then its 1 and 2 negatives respectively)
QUOTE (Steveo+)
I would argue that Bud Light is not good for you. First of all, its beer. Empty calories, and alcohol, which will dehydrate you, and make you drunk and act like a fool
And that's bad for you?
Actually, what I was referring to is the fact that it's diet, which is supposed to be good for you.
And that's bad for you?
Actually, what I was referring to is the fact that it's diet, which is supposed to be good for you.
world will end when I die 
QUOTE (555Joshua+)
Then what's the difference between being possessed by demons and inheriting a genetic desease? You can't tell me that angels turned bad are in the human genome. What I think is that these genetic sequences are in fact the "demons" Jesus spoke of. After all, they were wicked.
555Joshua: I don't know everything about demons/evil spirits, so I generally stick with what I do know and just offer possible answers(somewhat "educated guesses) to the rest. Additionally, I don't know too much about genetic diseases(hardly anything), but I have dealt with what are generally known as "generational curses" in the past. Before anyone laughs, there are many people throughout the modern world(in some cases, whole tribes) who still regularly seek to place a "curse" upon people. Personally, I don't take this practice lightly. Just as I have met people who have genuinely been "born again" of the Holy Spirit, I have also met people who are in direct contact with the other side of the spirit world. In fact, my wife was studying to be a witch in her homeland of Panama before she came to the States and consequently became a Christian. I have mentioned in the past how a friend of ours and I prayed for my wife(she was diagnosed with uteral cancer) and how a tumor came out of her "lower regions"(you know what I mean). I have never mentioned that we had to break a "curse" over her before this happened. While we were praying for my wife, she had a vision in which she saw one of her grandmothers(witchcraft has been practiced for many generations on both sides of her family) holding her up in the air as an infant and dedicating both her and her womb to Satan. I have also mentioned in the past that my wife's womb used to be facing the wrong way and she was told by doctors that she would NEVER have children(we have two). Anyhow, when she shared this vision with us, in Jesus Christ's name, we broke any curses that might have been placed over her or her womb. When we did, a literal fountain of blood came pouring/spurting out of her "lower regions"(you know what I mean). There was blood over the walls of our bedroom(my wife was naked at the time...she had been sitting in a hot tub, trying to alleviate some of the pain that she was feeling), over the carpet and over the bed. She ran to the bathroom and sat down on the toilet(sorry to be so graphic) and I laid hands on her and a tumor came out of her and landed in the toilet. The tumor was big enough that we initially thought that it was a premature baby(actually, we had only been married for a few weeks at the time and we were both celibate for quite a long time prior to being married, so this would have been impossible anyway), but, upon brief examination(it was floating in bloody water, hardly a sight for sore eyes), it was indeed a tumor. As I've testified before, about a half an hour later, my wife, our friend and I attended an outdoor picnic where my wife ran around kicking a soccer ball with children. Whom the Son sets free, is free indeed.
As far as "angels gone bad inhabiting the human genome" is concerned... First of all, I don't personally know if demons/evil spirits and angels are the same thing or not. Some would say "yes", others would say "no". Personally, I'm not sure. Those who say they are NOT the same thing usually point to the following portion of scripture to "make their case":
"But when Paul perceived that the one part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee: of the hope and resurrection of the dead I am called in question. And when he had said so, there arose a dissension between the Pharisees and the Sadducees: and the multitude was divided. For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, neither angel, nor spirit: but the Pharisees confess both."(Acts 23:6-8)
Some look to the last part of that quote, "neither angel, nor spirit", and claim that the "spirits" being spoken of are "evil spirits", as opposed to "human spirits", and therefore conclude that demons/spirits and angels are NOT one and the same thing. As I said, I don't know. In either case, this I do know. Evil spirits are living beings and they can inhabit the bodies of humans. Jesus said:
"When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation."(Matthew 12:43-45)
One who is delivered of an evil spirit and doesn't "fill their house" with God will ultimately wind up in a worse condition than they were originally in before being delivered. Jesus said that this same principle applied to the Jews of His day. He regularly cast out demons, healed the sick, cleansed the lepers, raised the dead, etc. among them and, yet, many of them NEVER truly turned to God. Their latter condition would be worse than their former condition. Anyhow, the Bible has many examples of demons speaking to Jesus and demonstrating other characteristics that are common among living beings.
Man could never turn away from the appeal that evil has turn on them. Because it is in our nature to seek for something evil. We cannot erase it in our existence. We are born with it. Evil makes us human.
no, you need to shut it before this happens, that's my point. And yes I will, it is most tasty.
no, you need to shut it before this happens, that's my point. And yes I will, it is most tasty.
The words of newguy have ended.
Thank god.
555Joshua: I don't know everything about demons/evil spirits, so I generally stick with what I do know and just offer possible answers(somewhat "educated guesses) to the rest. Additionally, I don't know too much about genetic diseases(hardly anything), but I have dealt with what are generally known as "generational curses" in the past. Before anyone laughs, there are many people throughout the modern world(in some cases, whole tribes) who still regularly seek to place a "curse" upon people. Personally, I don't take this practice lightly. Just as I have met people who have genuinely been "born again" of the Holy Spirit, I have also met people who are in direct contact with the other side of the spirit world. In fact, my wife was studying to be a witch in her homeland of Panama before she came to the States and consequently became a Christian. I have mentioned in the past how a friend of ours and I prayed for my wife(she was diagnosed with uteral cancer) and how a tumor came out of her "lower regions"(you know what I mean). I have never mentioned that we had to break a "curse" over her before this happened. While we were praying for my wife, she had a vision in which she saw one of her grandmothers(witchcraft has been practiced for many generations on both sides of her family) holding her up in the air as an infant and dedicating both her and her womb to Satan. I have also mentioned in the past that my wife's womb used to be facing the wrong way and she was told by doctors that she would NEVER have children(we have two). Anyhow, when she shared this vision with us, in Jesus Christ's name, we broke any curses that might have been placed over her or her womb. When we did, a literal fountain of blood came pouring/spurting out of her "lower regions"(you know what I mean). There was blood over the walls of our bedroom(my wife was naked at the time...she had been sitting in a hot tub, trying to alleviate some of the pain that she was feeling), over the carpet and over the bed. She ran to the bathroom and sat down on the toilet(sorry to be so graphic) and I laid hands on her and a tumor came out of her and landed in the toilet. The tumor was big enough that we initially thought that it was a premature baby(actually, we had only been married for a few weeks at the time and we were both celibate for quite a long time prior to being married, so this would have been impossible anyway), but, upon brief examination(it was floating in bloody water, hardly a sight for sore eyes), it was indeed a tumor. As I've testified before, about a half an hour later, my wife, our friend and I attended an outdoor picnic where my wife ran around kicking a soccer ball with children. Whom the Son sets free, is free indeed.
As far as "angels gone bad inhabiting the human genome" is concerned... First of all, I don't personally know if demons/evil spirits and angels are the same thing or not. Some would say "yes", others would say "no". Personally, I'm not sure. Those who say they are NOT the same thing usually point to the following portion of scripture to "make their case":
"But when Paul perceived that the one part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee: of the hope and resurrection of the dead I am called in question. And when he had said so, there arose a dissension between the Pharisees and the Sadducees: and the multitude was divided. For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, neither angel, nor spirit: but the Pharisees confess both."(Acts 23:6-8)
Some look to the last part of that quote, "neither angel, nor spirit", and claim that the "spirits" being spoken of are "evil spirits", as opposed to "human spirits", and therefore conclude that demons/spirits and angels are NOT one and the same thing. As I said, I don't know. In either case, this I do know. Evil spirits are living beings and they can inhabit the bodies of humans. Jesus said:
"When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation."(Matthew 12:43-45)
One who is delivered of an evil spirit and doesn't "fill their house" with God will ultimately wind up in a worse condition than they were originally in before being delivered. Jesus said that this same principle applied to the Jews of His day. He regularly cast out demons, healed the sick, cleansed the lepers, raised the dead, etc. among them and, yet, many of them NEVER truly turned to God. Their latter condition would be worse than their former condition. Anyhow, the Bible has many examples of demons speaking to Jesus and demonstrating other characteristics that are common among living beings.
QUOTE (555Joshua+)
And the screaming thing, I think that was an exaggeration made by the witnesses. I mean, how many times have the "demons" you cast out actually screamed?
Honestly? Hundreds of times. I'm open to further discussion. I hope this info satisfies, at least for now. Talk to you later.
Honestly? Hundreds of times. I'm open to further discussion. I hope this info satisfies, at least for now. Talk to you later.
So Newguy, how does one find out they have a demon inside of them?
Glad your wife is better and you have a family!
Glad your wife is better and you have a family!
"THEY": That's a very good question...I trust it's sincere. I only have a few moments right now and I want to give this question a rather thorough answer. I'm going to try to answer it later on tonight, but I might have to put it off until some time late tomorrow. As long as I'm still alive(you never know), I do have every intention of answering it. Until then...
Oh, thanks. I'm glad too.
Oh, thanks. I'm glad too.
I'm pretty speechless. You got me. Wow.
"THEY": Sorry, I haven't forgotten you or your question. I just worked a tremendously long day and then got stuck in a couple hours of traffic, to boot. I've got to get up really early tomorrow and do it all over again. I'll try to get to your question, hopefully on Sunday, when I'm a little more rested and alert. Thanks for your patience.
That is Ok, I have been hecka busy today too, (should be nearly home now but still here at work). I will be back Monday, so no hurry on my end! Have a great weekend!
QUOTE ("THEY"+)
So Newguy, how does one find out they have a demon inside of them?
"THEY": Sorry it took me so long to get to your question. I'm still pretty "groggy"(alot of work, a little sleep...Daylight Savings Time didn't help either), but I'll do my best to at least start answering your question. First of all, there are several different demons/spirits mentioned within scripture. They all show characteristics of living beings(they speak, have knowledge, have "lusts" or desires, etc.). Some could quite possibly best be described as "spirits of infirmity", or spirits that cause disease("dis-ease"), either physically or mentally. Others, clearly(based on both scripture and much experience) seek to fulfill their own "lusts" or desires through a physical body that they can gain access to. I have dealt quite extensively with both types for many years. To be as honest as I can, I would say that when PRAYING FOR OTHERS,
I have most often dealt with "spirits of infirmity"(probably 90% of the time or more). The reason for this is obvious to me. Most of the people that I've prayed for were perfectly willing to be set free from pain, sickness and "dis-ease". At the same time, however, these same people that I've encountered were rarely ever willing to be set free from SIN. I'm not insinuating that "The devil MADE THEM do it", to paraphrase Flip Wilson, but I am certainly suggesting that they were willfully in league with an indwelling "spirit" and had no desire whatsoever to break that league. It has been said that "God doesn't deliver us from our friends, He delivers us from our enemies" and I agree. The way that one might know(I'm not saying that demons/spirits are necessarily the only possible cause for what I'm about to describe) that such people(those who are "dis-eased") "have a demon inside of them" is simply through either their sickness or "dis-ease"(the Bible sometimes uses the term "grieviously vexed"). Sorry, but it's oftentimes that simple. God has also given the gift of the "discerning of spirits"(I Corinthians 12:10) to some by the Holy Spirit, but, as I've already said, oftentimes it's as simple as just seeing an individual's sickness or "dis-ease"(after awhile, "past experience" definitely comes into play...not that this is a game). Here would be one of several possible Biblical references that shows that a "spirit" was causing an "infirmity":
"And he was teaching in one of the synagogues on the sabbath. And, behold, there was a woman which had a spirit
of infirmity eighteen years, and was bowed together, and could in no wise lift up herself. And when Jesus saw her,
he called her to him, and said unto her, Woman, thou art loosed from thine infirmity. And he laid his hands on her: and immediately she was made straight, and glorified God. And the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because that Jesus had healed on the sabbath day, and said unto the people, There are six days in which men ought to work: in them therefore come and be healed, and not on the sabbath day. The Lord then answered him, and said, Thou hypocrite, doth not each one of you on the sabbath loose his ox or his @ss from the stall, and lead him away to watering? And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day? And when he had said these things, all his adversaries were ashamed: and all the people rejoiced for all the glorious things that were done by him."(Luke 13:10-17)
Here we see the account of a woman who was "bowed together" or "hunched over" for 18 years. Jesus dealt with the true source of this woman's "bondage" which was a "spirit of infirmity". I have personally prayed deliverance for people on many occasions that had "infirmities" that could easily be placed in the same category as this woman. I will briefly mention one of them, one that, again, is very "close to home" for me. About 5 years ago, when I first got married, I was invited by a group of people to come down to Florida(Navarre) and hold Bible studies. Over the course of a few weeks, my wife, a friend of ours, and I successfully prayed "deliverance" for several different individuals. During our stay in Florida(My wife and I were actually in Florida for about 8 months. The Bible studies did not last that long, however. Once I got around to teaching on the topic of SIN and freedom from it through Christ...well, let's just say that "all hell broke loose". Eventually, the same people that invited me to come down to Florida basically "ran me out of town", even though I left willingly. One of them went so far as to swerve the mattress truck he drove towards me in an attempt to "scare me off" when our paths crossed on one of the roads in Florida. Anyhow, like I said, that was just to better help you understand the actual timeframe), my mother-in-law also stayed with us for about 2 1/2 or 3 weeks. One night, while sitting at home(we rented a house in Navarre) and chatting, my wife suddenly "went stiff"(she was sitting on the floor next to me at the time and engaged in a conversation with her mother) and fell over backwards with tears slowing streaming down her face. We spoke to her, but all she did was slowly release her tears. I've gotten to the point where "deliverance"(casting out demons in Jesus Christ's name) is so commonplace that I think it is not only my "second nature" to pray deliverance, but, rather, my "first nature". I immediately laid hands on her and commanded any spirits that were causing her to be paralyzed to come out of her in Jesus Christ's name. More than one manifested and came out of her(yes, 555Joshua, they came out "screaming") and she has been fine ever since. It was then that I learned for the first time from both my wife and her mother that this "paralysis" plagued my wife, on and off, starting from when she was a child. She had been to many different doctors and the best that any of them could do was to tell her that she could possibly be totally paralyzed one day as they could not discover what was causing her condition. I also learned that when my wife was around 23/24 years old, the left side of her body(the left side of her face, her left arm and left leg) "went dead" and "stayed dead" for about 1 month. Once again, many doctors could offer her no help nor diagnose the source of her paralysis. It was at this time that my wife first visited a witchdoctor. After some crazy rituals(breaking a chicken's neck, etc.), my wife(she wasn't my wife at the time...I didn't even know her as we were in different countries) regained the full use of the left side of her body. This "healing" immediately thrust her into the world of witchcraft and, as I said, she was actually studying to become a practicing witch. That was just a little background. I'll tell you what the Panamanian doctors couldn't tell my wife...A "spirit of infirmity" was causing her paralysis. As I mentioned in a previous post, witchcraft has been a part of my wife's family background for several generations. I'm not talking about "crooked noses with warts on them" and "boiling cauldrons", but I am most definitely talking about people who have deliberately gone about to contact the dark side of the spirit world to harness spiritual power which was often used to "curse" people. I know this sounds somewhat "odd", in this day and age, but such things do regularly take place today in certain parts of the world. Anyhow, through their direct involvement in witchcraft and with witchdoctors, my wife and her family members have "picked up"(I don't know what other terminology to use) many "spirits", some of which they have since been delivered from. My mother-in-law is pretty much a "storehouse of sickness" to this very day. She has just about everything wrong with her that you could imagine and has been to many different doctors. None of them can diagnose the cause of any of her many illnesses and pains. We(my wife and I) have diagnosed plenty of them already. At times, in the past, my mother-in-law has allowed us to pray "deliverance" for her(sorry, but she's a stubborn woman and somewhat of a racist...I'm white, my wife/her daughter is black) and she has had several different spirits manifest in her and come out of her. As I've also mentioned in the past on one of these threads, my mother-in-law was born deaf in her left ear. While praying for her during our stay in Florida, a spirit came out of her left ear and she has heard perfectly from that ear ever since(it's been about 5 years now). Anyhow...
I'd really like to talk more about what I would term "spirits of lust" or spirits that seek to fulfill their "lusts" or desires through human bodies that they gain access to, but I'm really "pooped" at the moment. I'd also like to address how I actually initially got involved in all of this "deliverance" in the first place. I've deliberately held off on mentioning that for months...after you hear my experience, you might understand why I have yet to describe it. I trust that, by now, most people that know me on this forum trust both my sincerity and sanity. Hopefully, most won't change their minds about me by the time I'm done. If they do...well, what can I say? I'm going to be honest regardless of what anyone else thinks. I've got to go get some rest. I'll offer more when I'm better rested. Thanks for your question and your understanding.
P.S. I clicked on your username and viewed your "feedback". Seems that I won you some favor with Drude(He referred to you as "he", but it seems that you are a "she" from some of your posts that I've read). Glad that I could help.
"THEY": Sorry it took me so long to get to your question. I'm still pretty "groggy"(alot of work, a little sleep...Daylight Savings Time didn't help either), but I'll do my best to at least start answering your question. First of all, there are several different demons/spirits mentioned within scripture. They all show characteristics of living beings(they speak, have knowledge, have "lusts" or desires, etc.). Some could quite possibly best be described as "spirits of infirmity", or spirits that cause disease("dis-ease"), either physically or mentally. Others, clearly(based on both scripture and much experience) seek to fulfill their own "lusts" or desires through a physical body that they can gain access to. I have dealt quite extensively with both types for many years. To be as honest as I can, I would say that when PRAYING FOR OTHERS,
I have most often dealt with "spirits of infirmity"(probably 90% of the time or more). The reason for this is obvious to me. Most of the people that I've prayed for were perfectly willing to be set free from pain, sickness and "dis-ease". At the same time, however, these same people that I've encountered were rarely ever willing to be set free from SIN. I'm not insinuating that "The devil MADE THEM do it", to paraphrase Flip Wilson, but I am certainly suggesting that they were willfully in league with an indwelling "spirit" and had no desire whatsoever to break that league. It has been said that "God doesn't deliver us from our friends, He delivers us from our enemies" and I agree. The way that one might know(I'm not saying that demons/spirits are necessarily the only possible cause for what I'm about to describe) that such people(those who are "dis-eased") "have a demon inside of them" is simply through either their sickness or "dis-ease"(the Bible sometimes uses the term "grieviously vexed"). Sorry, but it's oftentimes that simple. God has also given the gift of the "discerning of spirits"(I Corinthians 12:10) to some by the Holy Spirit, but, as I've already said, oftentimes it's as simple as just seeing an individual's sickness or "dis-ease"(after awhile, "past experience" definitely comes into play...not that this is a game). Here would be one of several possible Biblical references that shows that a "spirit" was causing an "infirmity":
"And he was teaching in one of the synagogues on the sabbath. And, behold, there was a woman which had a spirit
of infirmity eighteen years, and was bowed together, and could in no wise lift up herself. And when Jesus saw her,
he called her to him, and said unto her, Woman, thou art loosed from thine infirmity. And he laid his hands on her: and immediately she was made straight, and glorified God. And the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because that Jesus had healed on the sabbath day, and said unto the people, There are six days in which men ought to work: in them therefore come and be healed, and not on the sabbath day. The Lord then answered him, and said, Thou hypocrite, doth not each one of you on the sabbath loose his ox or his @ss from the stall, and lead him away to watering? And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day? And when he had said these things, all his adversaries were ashamed: and all the people rejoiced for all the glorious things that were done by him."(Luke 13:10-17)
Here we see the account of a woman who was "bowed together" or "hunched over" for 18 years. Jesus dealt with the true source of this woman's "bondage" which was a "spirit of infirmity". I have personally prayed deliverance for people on many occasions that had "infirmities" that could easily be placed in the same category as this woman. I will briefly mention one of them, one that, again, is very "close to home" for me. About 5 years ago, when I first got married, I was invited by a group of people to come down to Florida(Navarre) and hold Bible studies. Over the course of a few weeks, my wife, a friend of ours, and I successfully prayed "deliverance" for several different individuals. During our stay in Florida(My wife and I were actually in Florida for about 8 months. The Bible studies did not last that long, however. Once I got around to teaching on the topic of SIN and freedom from it through Christ...well, let's just say that "all hell broke loose". Eventually, the same people that invited me to come down to Florida basically "ran me out of town", even though I left willingly. One of them went so far as to swerve the mattress truck he drove towards me in an attempt to "scare me off" when our paths crossed on one of the roads in Florida. Anyhow, like I said, that was just to better help you understand the actual timeframe), my mother-in-law also stayed with us for about 2 1/2 or 3 weeks. One night, while sitting at home(we rented a house in Navarre) and chatting, my wife suddenly "went stiff"(she was sitting on the floor next to me at the time and engaged in a conversation with her mother) and fell over backwards with tears slowing streaming down her face. We spoke to her, but all she did was slowly release her tears. I've gotten to the point where "deliverance"(casting out demons in Jesus Christ's name) is so commonplace that I think it is not only my "second nature" to pray deliverance, but, rather, my "first nature". I immediately laid hands on her and commanded any spirits that were causing her to be paralyzed to come out of her in Jesus Christ's name. More than one manifested and came out of her(yes, 555Joshua, they came out "screaming") and she has been fine ever since. It was then that I learned for the first time from both my wife and her mother that this "paralysis" plagued my wife, on and off, starting from when she was a child. She had been to many different doctors and the best that any of them could do was to tell her that she could possibly be totally paralyzed one day as they could not discover what was causing her condition. I also learned that when my wife was around 23/24 years old, the left side of her body(the left side of her face, her left arm and left leg) "went dead" and "stayed dead" for about 1 month. Once again, many doctors could offer her no help nor diagnose the source of her paralysis. It was at this time that my wife first visited a witchdoctor. After some crazy rituals(breaking a chicken's neck, etc.), my wife(she wasn't my wife at the time...I didn't even know her as we were in different countries) regained the full use of the left side of her body. This "healing" immediately thrust her into the world of witchcraft and, as I said, she was actually studying to become a practicing witch. That was just a little background. I'll tell you what the Panamanian doctors couldn't tell my wife...A "spirit of infirmity" was causing her paralysis. As I mentioned in a previous post, witchcraft has been a part of my wife's family background for several generations. I'm not talking about "crooked noses with warts on them" and "boiling cauldrons", but I am most definitely talking about people who have deliberately gone about to contact the dark side of the spirit world to harness spiritual power which was often used to "curse" people. I know this sounds somewhat "odd", in this day and age, but such things do regularly take place today in certain parts of the world. Anyhow, through their direct involvement in witchcraft and with witchdoctors, my wife and her family members have "picked up"(I don't know what other terminology to use) many "spirits", some of which they have since been delivered from. My mother-in-law is pretty much a "storehouse of sickness" to this very day. She has just about everything wrong with her that you could imagine and has been to many different doctors. None of them can diagnose the cause of any of her many illnesses and pains. We(my wife and I) have diagnosed plenty of them already. At times, in the past, my mother-in-law has allowed us to pray "deliverance" for her(sorry, but she's a stubborn woman and somewhat of a racist...I'm white, my wife/her daughter is black) and she has had several different spirits manifest in her and come out of her. As I've also mentioned in the past on one of these threads, my mother-in-law was born deaf in her left ear. While praying for her during our stay in Florida, a spirit came out of her left ear and she has heard perfectly from that ear ever since(it's been about 5 years now). Anyhow...
I'd really like to talk more about what I would term "spirits of lust" or spirits that seek to fulfill their "lusts" or desires through human bodies that they gain access to, but I'm really "pooped" at the moment. I'd also like to address how I actually initially got involved in all of this "deliverance" in the first place. I've deliberately held off on mentioning that for months...after you hear my experience, you might understand why I have yet to describe it. I trust that, by now, most people that know me on this forum trust both my sincerity and sanity. Hopefully, most won't change their minds about me by the time I'm done. If they do...well, what can I say? I'm going to be honest regardless of what anyone else thinks. I've got to go get some rest. I'll offer more when I'm better rested. Thanks for your question and your understanding.
P.S. I clicked on your username and viewed your "feedback". Seems that I won you some favor with Drude(He referred to you as "he", but it seems that you are a "she" from some of your posts that I've read). Glad that I could help.
Well, then I need your help getting rid of my demons. They've got a party going on in my body. There're playing Twister and it hurts like hell. 
So wha'do you say? will ya dab some holy water on me and watch me dissolve? 
There're playing Twister and it hurts like hell. So wha'do you say? will ya dab some holy water on me and watch me dissolve?
555Joshua: You caught me while I've only got a few moments(I should have more time later today). First of all, I personally find NOTHING humorous about the topic of "deliverance". Was my wife laughing or mocking when she was paralyzed? No. She was crying. Was my wife laughing or mocking when blood was spurting out of her over the walls, carpet and bed? No. She was quite troubled, actually. In fact, NONE of the many different people that I've prayed either deliverance or healing for over the years were laughing or mocking. They were all in some sort of bondage, whether physical, mental or spiritual. I will not waste my time with anyone who wants to "make light" of this topic. You are certainly free, as is everyone else on this forum or in this world, to "make fun" of either me or the things that I discuss. That is your prerogative. I am also free to budget my time wisely. I perfectly intend to do just that. Enjoy your game of "Twister". Maybe you can get steve52, Messenger and Grumpy to play with you...they're some of the greatest "twisters" that I've ever encountered. No "holy water" at this end, sir. As far as your "dissolving" is concerned...
...although I do have alot of experience on this forum "putting out flaming strawmen"(my dealings with steve52 and his many "flaming strawmen"), I'm afraid I can't help you on this one. Later...
...although I do have alot of experience on this forum "putting out flaming strawmen"(my dealings with steve52 and his many "flaming strawmen"), I'm afraid I can't help you on this one. Later...
I am sorry I upset you so badly. I wasn't trying to make fun of you or what you do. I was just joking about myself. Again, sorry if I offended anyone you've delivered. I didn't mean to sound like I thought sorrow was funny. I don't. I was trying to say I'm screwed up, but I guess I should have been more straightforward.
Again, sorry if I offended anyone you've delivered. I didn't mean to sound like I thought sorrow was funny. I don't. I was trying to say I'm screwed up, but I guess I should have been more straightforward.
555Joshua: No apology necessary, although I'm glad that you clarified things. In case you haven't noticed, there are
two things that I'm not too fond of. One would be those who flagrantly mock things that they know nothing about.
The second would be those who willfully and knowingly lie to get something that they are after by dishonest means. Apparently, you're not guilty of either one of these two things on this forum. Just for the record, my responses are sometimes deliberately "sharp". This does not mean, though, that I harbor any genuine ill will towards anyone. This
just means that I'm trying to get people to think about what they're saying/doing. Have a good one.
two things that I'm not too fond of. One would be those who flagrantly mock things that they know nothing about.
The second would be those who willfully and knowingly lie to get something that they are after by dishonest means. Apparently, you're not guilty of either one of these two things on this forum. Just for the record, my responses are sometimes deliberately "sharp". This does not mean, though, that I harbor any genuine ill will towards anyone. This
just means that I'm trying to get people to think about what they're saying/doing. Have a good one.
QUOTE (Newguy+)
This
just means that I'm trying to get people to think about what they're saying/doing.
Well, you're real good at that. You made me crap my pants.
just means that I'm trying to get people to think about what they're saying/doing.
Well, you're real good at that. You made me crap my pants.
555Joshua: I just got home from a 17 hour work day. I'm "pooped". Apparently, so are you. Sorry about your little "accident", but it made me laugh. Have a good one.
Sorry about your little "accident", but it made me laugh. Have a good one.
Just so you know, I wasn't serious.
555Joshua: Don't worry...I recognize real sh*t when I see/smell it. That's why I hardly ever correspond with certain individuals on this forum. Have a good one.
Have a good one.
I thought so but...you never can tell.
Ta ta
Ta ta
We've reduced this forum to a discussion of pants crapping.
Can't wait till 2012!!!!!
Let's party!!!!
Let's party!!!!
God will cause the leaders all over the world to launch nuclear weapons on every nation, of the globe, IF mankind doesn't turn away from the appeal that Evil has on them. People must regard Him properly again, by doing right before Him or else they will face the consequence of becoming doomed, to being reduced to a pile of ashes.
QUOTE
IF mankind doesn't turn away from the appeal that Evil has on them
Man could never turn away from the appeal that evil has turn on them. Because it is in our nature to seek for something evil. We cannot erase it in our existence. We are born with it. Evil makes us human.
2012 will come and go like any other year and like Y2K.
QUOTE (newguy+Apr 3 2006, 11:42 AM)
555Joshua: You caught me while I've only got a few moments(I should have more time later today). First of all, I personally find NOTHING humorous about the topic of "deliverance". Was my wife laughing or mocking when she was paralyzed? No. She was crying. Was my wife laughing or mocking when blood was spurting out of her over the walls, carpet and bed? No. She was quite troubled, actually. In fact, NONE of the many different people that I've prayed either deliverance or healing for over the years were laughing or mocking. They were all in some sort of bondage, whether physical, mental or spiritual. I will not waste my time with anyone who wants to "make light" of this topic. You are certainly free, as is everyone else on this forum or in this world, to "make fun" of either me or the things that I discuss. That is your prerogative. I am also free to budget my time wisely. I perfectly intend to do just that. Enjoy your game of "Twister". Maybe you can get steve52, Messenger and Grumpy to play with you...they're some of the greatest "twisters" that I've ever encountered. No "holy water" at this end, sir. As far as your "dissolving" is concerned...
...although I do have alot of experience on this forum "putting out flaming strawmen"(my dealings with steve52 and his many "flaming strawmen"), I'm afraid I can't help you on this one. Later...
I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to say you're full of crap, dude. If not for one reason alone, you don't know how to keep your mouth shut. If you speak the truth then you better learn how to use discrimination. I've experienced some extremely strange stuff myself, but I'm not going to be talking about it to a bunch of people who aren't going to recieve it. If anything you match the pattern of a typical BS'er, why do they lie? Who knows, that is one thing I've never figured out.
...although I do have alot of experience on this forum "putting out flaming strawmen"(my dealings with steve52 and his many "flaming strawmen"), I'm afraid I can't help you on this one. Later...
I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to say you're full of crap, dude. If not for one reason alone, you don't know how to keep your mouth shut. If you speak the truth then you better learn how to use discrimination. I've experienced some extremely strange stuff myself, but I'm not going to be talking about it to a bunch of people who aren't going to recieve it. If anything you match the pattern of a typical BS'er, why do they lie? Who knows, that is one thing I've never figured out.
oomchu: Your timing is perfect. I just said "farewell" on another thread due mainly to the ignorance of most of the people on this forum that I've dialogued with thus far. You got your name on the list, just in the nick of time. So, you think I should have kept my mouth shut, do you? Funny(not really), "THEY" didn't seem to think so. No, actually she not only asked me a public question, which I answered(you know, the one that you think I shouldn't have), but we also exchanged a couple of "Personal Messages". How's that "ignorance cloud" doing over your head, anyhow? If a bolt of lightning shoots out of it and ZAPS! you back into reality any time soon, then do let me know, won't you? In the meantime, feel free to enjoy your ignorance. If you'd like to share your ignorance some more, then I'm afraid that you'll have to share it with someone else other than me. Yeah, I'm sorry, but I'll be too busy living my honest, Christian life. By the way, my honesty is well known by God, those that I've been able to help in Jesus Christ's name, myself, my family, my friends and those that I conduct business with on a regular basis. That's good enough for me. Sorry(not really), but your ignorance does absolutely nothing to change anyone's reality but your own. Farewell. Oh, one more thing before I go...I do know how to keep my mouth shut. I shut it at times like this when I've reached the point of casting my pearls before swine. Enjoy your slop.
The words of newguy have ended.
The words of newguy have ended.
Hey, newguy!! I'm sure you won't reply again saying that you do know how to keep your mouth shut. Well, don't keep your mouth shut. Promises are really meant to be broken. I've proven that. ANd don't worry about the people who've criticized you.
I hope you will still reply..
I hope you will still reply..
howtothinklikegod/all: Actually, I just had to post something on the feedback thread because some newcomer named "F*CK YOU" just finished posting some derogatory things about 555Joshua and Drude. Due to the coincidental timing of that, I felt it necessary to state that I know nothing of this individual and I trust that is something that the administrators will rectify shortly. I also noticed that the HYPOCRITICAL COWARD "Grumpy" posted a negative feedback on me now that I'm gone(well, aside from this). Anyone who wants me to publicly refute his latest lie can simply contact me via "Personal Message" and I'll gladly refute his garbage. The guy is sick. Farewell, again.
Edit: Apparently the administrators have already found out about "F*CK YOU" and removed all of his posts. Hopefully, that will alleviate that potential problem. My offer still holds in regards to the HYPOCRITICAL COWARD. No one has taken me up on my offer thus far. I see no need to answer the HYPOCRITICAL COWARD unless someone requests it, as the HYPOCRITICAL COWARD has a serious problem with cognitive dissonance. Anyhow, hopefully this will officially be it.
Good bye.
Edit: Apparently the administrators have already found out about "F*CK YOU" and removed all of his posts. Hopefully, that will alleviate that potential problem. My offer still holds in regards to the HYPOCRITICAL COWARD. No one has taken me up on my offer thus far. I see no need to answer the HYPOCRITICAL COWARD unless someone requests it, as the HYPOCRITICAL COWARD has a serious problem with cognitive dissonance. Anyhow, hopefully this will officially be it.
Good bye.
QUOTE
I shut it at times like this when I've reached the point of casting my pearls before swine. Enjoy your slop.
no, you need to shut it before this happens, that's my point. And yes I will, it is most tasty.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| I shut it at times like this when I've reached the point of casting my pearls before swine. Enjoy your slop. |
no, you need to shut it before this happens, that's my point. And yes I will, it is most tasty.
The words of newguy have ended.
Thank god.
New guy
The coward is the one who runs away when he can't deal with the questions in a civil manner and must resort to name calling.
That's OK, run on home with your tail between your legs. I'd rather see you run than to continue your lies and decietful behavior that seem to be your stock in trade of late.
As for the negative feedback, you earned that by your own behavior and your lying words. I gave you the benefit of a doubt but you showed you weren't worthy of it, in fact you added insult to insult in your lies against me, so I had to admit I was mistaken in my first feedback post. If you don't like my assesment, change your childish behavior, or don't, I don't care.
Grumpy
The coward is the one who runs away when he can't deal with the questions in a civil manner and must resort to name calling.
That's OK, run on home with your tail between your legs. I'd rather see you run than to continue your lies and decietful behavior that seem to be your stock in trade of late.
As for the negative feedback, you earned that by your own behavior and your lying words. I gave you the benefit of a doubt but you showed you weren't worthy of it, in fact you added insult to insult in your lies against me, so I had to admit I was mistaken in my first feedback post. If you don't like my assesment, change your childish behavior, or don't, I don't care.
Grumpy
Grumpy: You really don't understand what "name calling" is, do you? Words like "hypocrite" and "liar" do exist and do have proper applications in this life in regards to certain types of individuals. You're the type. Since you've been begging for me to prove my allegations for so long, I'll be happy to oblige you, but it won't be today, due to my heavy work schedule. I doubt that any of the proof that I'll offer will have any effect on you, since you've clearly manifested your cognitive dissonance many times in the past. At the same time, however, hopefully my refutation, when it comes, will help to open the eyes of some others on this forum. Additionally, I neither have a tail nor did I run. I've never been the type to run from hypocrites...I've always confronted them head on. In your case, due to your cognitive dissonance, I concluded that it would be a waste of time to dialogue with you further. I repeatedly made a public offer to the other forum members to refute your lies, but no one seemed the least bit interested. However, due to your persistence in this matter, I will oblige you one more time. As I said, it will have to wait for at least another day as my work schedule runs today from 4:00 a.m. until around 11:30 p.m., including travel time. Just remember, you asked for it. We'll see who's been lying...
Wow! Where did 2012 go?
Anyway, I saw the word 'hypocrit' and thought I'd just say this...
The moment another one of us dies unnecessarily and violently, at the hands of another, we prove to ourselves just how exactly like all the other 'animals' we are, if not indeed worse.
And so, to kill another, or support those that do, in the name of your 'God', is to actively support the Theory Of Evolution. (Big TOE!)
CHANGE is your REAL GOD. (Motion, with Connectivity)
Knot.
Anyway, I saw the word 'hypocrit' and thought I'd just say this...
The moment another one of us dies unnecessarily and violently, at the hands of another, we prove to ourselves just how exactly like all the other 'animals' we are, if not indeed worse.
And so, to kill another, or support those that do, in the name of your 'God', is to actively support the Theory Of Evolution. (Big TOE!)
CHANGE is your REAL GOD. (Motion, with Connectivity)
Knot.
I hope that newcomer named F*CK has already learned hie lesson. He should not join this forum because he doesn't belong here. Well, newguy, I hope you find the true reason why you keep on posting and posting. And answer knotofthisworld's question: where did the 2012 go???
Good luck to you, newguy. Hope you will still post something here if you have the time...
Good luck to you, newguy. Hope you will still post something here if you have the time...
QUOTE (newguy+Apr 3 2006, 12:12 AM)
One night, while sitting at home(we rented a house in Navarre) and chatting, my wife suddenly "went stiff"(she was sitting on the floor next to me at the time and engaged in a conversation with her mother) and fell over backwards with tears slowing streaming down her face. We spoke to her, but all she did was slowly release her tears. I've gotten to the point where "deliverance"(casting out demons in Jesus Christ's name) is so commonplace that I think it is not only my "second nature" to pray deliverance, but, rather, my "first nature". I immediately laid hands on her and commanded any spirits that were causing her to be paralyzed to come out of her in Jesus Christ's name. More than one manifested and came out of her(yes, 555Joshua, they came out "screaming") and she has been fine ever since.
mentioned in a previous post, witchcraft has been a part of my wife's family background for several generations. I'm not talking about "crooked noses with warts on them" and "boiling cauldrons", but I am most definitely talking about people who have deliberately gone about to contact the dark side of the spirit world to harness spiritual power which was often used to "curse" people. I know this sounds somewhat "odd", in this day and age, but such things do regularly take place today in certain parts of the world. Anyhow, through their direct involvement in witchcraft and with witchdoctors, my wife and her family members have "picked up"(I don't know what other terminology to use) many "spirits", some of which they have since been delivered from. My mother-in-law is pretty much a "storehouse of sickness" to this very day. She has just about everything wrong with her that you could imagine and has been to many different doctors. None of them can diagnose the cause of any of her many illnesses and pains. We(my wife and I) have diagnosed plenty of them already.
hi newguy
i am sorry if it takes me a long time to reply or even participate on the forum because i live here in honduras and i don´t have any internet at home because is expensive so what i do is came here to the city download some of the pages of the topics that i am interested burned them in a cd take home this cd and download the pages from the cd to my pc at home and take some time after work every day to read everything that has been said .i do this once in the weekends .
so my question about what i quote is this:
even when i don´t share your beliefs i can assure that what you are telling about whichcraft in those countries of american central is true ,lots of people still believes in this kind of things one funny thing i have seen in the past is this man who used to play lottery ( the national lottery sponsored by the government the numbers to play are from 00 to 99) so this man used to aling all the numbers of the lottery in a circle and the put a candle in the center of the circle , light the candle and let it burn in the night so in the morning so in the morning he returned to check in which direction was pointing in the wick of the candle and this is the number he buyed in the lottery .of course usually he never won anything but he believed god was able to reveal the number trough this particular method ,this is what we call white sorcery (sorry if i extended in the example
so the question is this
if the family of your wife had better resources (money ) and better doctors or better medical tecnology to give her a right diagnose of her illness and they still haven¨t found the cause of her illness would you still believe she applies to a deliverance because doctors in this country are not very accurate in the diagnose of illness ( in the public health system they lack experience knowledge and technology and the good ones in the private system are very expensive ) .
i am trying to find the logic on this whit no offense or do any mockery.
mentioned in a previous post, witchcraft has been a part of my wife's family background for several generations. I'm not talking about "crooked noses with warts on them" and "boiling cauldrons", but I am most definitely talking about people who have deliberately gone about to contact the dark side of the spirit world to harness spiritual power which was often used to "curse" people. I know this sounds somewhat "odd", in this day and age, but such things do regularly take place today in certain parts of the world. Anyhow, through their direct involvement in witchcraft and with witchdoctors, my wife and her family members have "picked up"(I don't know what other terminology to use) many "spirits", some of which they have since been delivered from. My mother-in-law is pretty much a "storehouse of sickness" to this very day. She has just about everything wrong with her that you could imagine and has been to many different doctors. None of them can diagnose the cause of any of her many illnesses and pains. We(my wife and I) have diagnosed plenty of them already.
hi newguy
i am sorry if it takes me a long time to reply or even participate on the forum because i live here in honduras and i don´t have any internet at home because is expensive so what i do is came here to the city download some of the pages of the topics that i am interested burned them in a cd take home this cd and download the pages from the cd to my pc at home and take some time after work every day to read everything that has been said .i do this once in the weekends .
so my question about what i quote is this:
even when i don´t share your beliefs i can assure that what you are telling about whichcraft in those countries of american central is true ,lots of people still believes in this kind of things one funny thing i have seen in the past is this man who used to play lottery ( the national lottery sponsored by the government the numbers to play are from 00 to 99) so this man used to aling all the numbers of the lottery in a circle and the put a candle in the center of the circle , light the candle and let it burn in the night so in the morning so in the morning he returned to check in which direction was pointing in the wick of the candle and this is the number he buyed in the lottery .of course usually he never won anything but he believed god was able to reveal the number trough this particular method ,this is what we call white sorcery (sorry if i extended in the example
so the question is this
if the family of your wife had better resources (money ) and better doctors or better medical tecnology to give her a right diagnose of her illness and they still haven¨t found the cause of her illness would you still believe she applies to a deliverance because doctors in this country are not very accurate in the diagnose of illness ( in the public health system they lack experience knowledge and technology and the good ones in the private system are very expensive ) .
i am trying to find the logic on this whit no offense or do any mockery.
ashken: Before answering your question, I must commend you for the efforts that you put forth just to be able to participate in this forum. Hopefully, my answer will be worthy of all the work you had to do to even ask the question.
QUOTE (ashken+)
if the family of your wife had better resources (money ) and better doctors or better medical tecnology to give her a right diagnose of her illness and they still haven¨t found the cause of her illness would you still believe she applies to a deliverance because doctors in this country are not very accurate in the diagnose of illness ( in the public health system they lack experience knowledge and technology and the good ones in the private system are very expensive ) .
i am trying to find the logic on this whit no offense or do any mockery.
I'm sorry to begin my answer to you with a question, but I have to ask the following:
How could any doctor have properly diagnosed a spiritual(demonically influenced) problem? Wouldn't that be without their field of knowledge or expertise?
Regardless of any doctor's diagnosis, my wife still needed deliverance from an evil spirit, so I would have to say "YES", my wife still "applies to a deliverance", to use your words. The spirits(more than one) did come out of her screaming and she was instantaneously healed. Also, please understand that I have prayed for many, many different people over the years and 90+% of them were from this country(USA). Many of them had both money and "good doctors" and still couldn't be helped. This reminds me of a particular passage of scripture from the Bible:
"And a certain woman, which had an issue of blood twelve years, And had suffered many things of many physicians, and had spent all that she had, and was nothing bettered, but rather grew worse, When she had heard of Jesus, came in the press behind, and touched his garment. For she said, If I may touch but his clothes, I shall be whole. And straightway the fountain of her blood was dried up; and she felt in her body that she was healed of that plague."
(Mark 5:25-29)
There are diseases(dis-eases) that are simply never going to be cured by natural means because their cause is not natural but spiritual(demonically influenced).
I feel kind of bad stopping here because of all the effort that you've already given and will have to give to just read my response. The Bible does say much about the nature or activity of demons/evil spirits. If you'd like, I'd be happy to dialogue with you along those lines. One more thing...although I'm somewhat forced to talk about myself when discussing deliverance(since I've been doing the praying), deliverance is all about Jesus Christ and His superiority over the demonic realm. Additionally, the goal of my conversations is never to draw attention to myself, but rather to bear witness of Christ and offer help to anyone who would sincerely desire it. That's all, for now. If you have any further questions, then it shall be my pleasure to attempt to answer them for you. Have a good one.
i am trying to find the logic on this whit no offense or do any mockery.
I'm sorry to begin my answer to you with a question, but I have to ask the following:
How could any doctor have properly diagnosed a spiritual(demonically influenced) problem? Wouldn't that be without their field of knowledge or expertise?
Regardless of any doctor's diagnosis, my wife still needed deliverance from an evil spirit, so I would have to say "YES", my wife still "applies to a deliverance", to use your words. The spirits(more than one) did come out of her screaming and she was instantaneously healed. Also, please understand that I have prayed for many, many different people over the years and 90+% of them were from this country(USA). Many of them had both money and "good doctors" and still couldn't be helped. This reminds me of a particular passage of scripture from the Bible:
"And a certain woman, which had an issue of blood twelve years, And had suffered many things of many physicians, and had spent all that she had, and was nothing bettered, but rather grew worse, When she had heard of Jesus, came in the press behind, and touched his garment. For she said, If I may touch but his clothes, I shall be whole. And straightway the fountain of her blood was dried up; and she felt in her body that she was healed of that plague."
(Mark 5:25-29)
There are diseases(dis-eases) that are simply never going to be cured by natural means because their cause is not natural but spiritual(demonically influenced).
I feel kind of bad stopping here because of all the effort that you've already given and will have to give to just read my response. The Bible does say much about the nature or activity of demons/evil spirits. If you'd like, I'd be happy to dialogue with you along those lines. One more thing...although I'm somewhat forced to talk about myself when discussing deliverance(since I've been doing the praying), deliverance is all about Jesus Christ and His superiority over the demonic realm. Additionally, the goal of my conversations is never to draw attention to myself, but rather to bear witness of Christ and offer help to anyone who would sincerely desire it. That's all, for now. If you have any further questions, then it shall be my pleasure to attempt to answer them for you. Have a good one.
Newguy,
This story is a little confusing to me. Probably because I have a scientific bent of mind. I have some questions
1)According to your wife's account, what exactly did she experience?
2) Did she see any demons?
3) Did she have any other symptoms apart from falling backwards and tears?
1)According to your wife's account, what exactly did she experience?
2) Did she see any demons?
3) Did she have any other symptoms apart from falling backwards and tears?
We spoke to her, but all she did was slowly release her tears. I've gotten to the point where "deliverance"(casting out demons in Jesus Christ's name) is so commonplace that I think it is not only my "second nature" to pray deliverance, but, rather, my "first nature".
The symptoms you have mentioned so far seems to be for mental seizure which is not rare. It happens to perfectly normal human beings due to hyperactivity in the brain.
4) How did you assume this was demonic possession? Did you even consider other possibilities?
I am not sure what 'manifested' means.
5) Did you see or hear any demons? If you heard screaming, did the voice come from your wife or some other source?
I am not sure what 'manifested' means.
5) Did you see or hear any demons? If you heard screaming, did the voice come from your wife or some other source?
Anyhow, through their direct involvement in witchcraft and with witchdoctors, my wife and her family members have "picked up"(I don't know what other terminology to use) many "spirits", some of which they have since been delivered from. My mother-in-law is pretty much a "storehouse of sickness" to this very day.
It seems like your wife's sickness is hereditary.
6) Does you mother-in-law exhibit similar symptoms?
7) Please explain what you mean by "storehouse of sickness". What symptoms does she exhibit?
Diagnosing a problem is not a simple process. Sometimes it requires a lot of investigation and still the cause cannot be determined. But that does not mean we should find super-natural explanations.
In the event you described for your wife, you did not mention having consulted any doctor.
This story is a little confusing to me. Probably because I have a scientific bent of mind. I have some questions
QUOTE
One night, while sitting at home(we rented a house in Navarre) and chatting, my wife suddenly "went stiff"(she was sitting on the floor next to me at the time and engaged in a conversation with her mother) and fell over backwards with tears slowing streaming down her face.
1)According to your wife's account, what exactly did she experience?
2) Did she see any demons?
3) Did she have any other symptoms apart from falling backwards and tears?
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| One night, while sitting at home(we rented a house in Navarre) and chatting, my wife suddenly "went stiff"(she was sitting on the floor next to me at the time and engaged in a conversation with her mother) and fell over backwards with tears slowing streaming down her face. |
1)According to your wife's account, what exactly did she experience?
2) Did she see any demons?
3) Did she have any other symptoms apart from falling backwards and tears?
We spoke to her, but all she did was slowly release her tears. I've gotten to the point where "deliverance"(casting out demons in Jesus Christ's name) is so commonplace that I think it is not only my "second nature" to pray deliverance, but, rather, my "first nature".
The symptoms you have mentioned so far seems to be for mental seizure which is not rare. It happens to perfectly normal human beings due to hyperactivity in the brain.
4) How did you assume this was demonic possession? Did you even consider other possibilities?
QUOTE
More than one manifested and came out of her(yes, 555Joshua, they came out "screaming") and she has been fine ever since.
I am not sure what 'manifested' means.
5) Did you see or hear any demons? If you heard screaming, did the voice come from your wife or some other source?
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| More than one manifested and came out of her(yes, 555Joshua, they came out "screaming") and she has been fine ever since. |
I am not sure what 'manifested' means.
5) Did you see or hear any demons? If you heard screaming, did the voice come from your wife or some other source?
Anyhow, through their direct involvement in witchcraft and with witchdoctors, my wife and her family members have "picked up"(I don't know what other terminology to use) many "spirits", some of which they have since been delivered from. My mother-in-law is pretty much a "storehouse of sickness" to this very day.
It seems like your wife's sickness is hereditary.
6) Does you mother-in-law exhibit similar symptoms?
7) Please explain what you mean by "storehouse of sickness". What symptoms does she exhibit?
QUOTE
She has just about everything wrong with her that you could imagine and has been to many different doctors. None of them can diagnose the cause of any of her many illnesses and pains. We(my wife and I) have diagnosed plenty of them already.
Diagnosing a problem is not a simple process. Sometimes it requires a lot of investigation and still the cause cannot be determined. But that does not mean we should find super-natural explanations.
In the event you described for your wife, you did not mention having consulted any doctor.
vkamath: I just got home from a very long day of work. I pretty much have to go right to bed and then start all over again very early tomorrow morning. I should have a little time to answer your questions tomorrow night. I'll talk to you then. Thanks.
okay, guys.....where's the 2012???
QUOTE (howtothinklikegod+Apr 24 2006, 09:44 AM)
okay, guys.....where's the 2012???
Dec 21, 2012 Party is at my house! But my crystal ball is currently broken, I can't tell you what will happen. Probably the same thing that happened at Y2K will happen in 2012. Maybe not. Nostrodamus, the bible, Native Americans, and many other cultures all have predicted very similar things, but no one knows exactly what will happen or when. So BYOB!
Dec 21, 2012 Party is at my house! But my crystal ball is currently broken, I can't tell you what will happen. Probably the same thing that happened at Y2K will happen in 2012. Maybe not. Nostrodamus, the bible, Native Americans, and many other cultures all have predicted very similar things, but no one knows exactly what will happen or when. So BYOB!
The Maya found that on December 21, not only will it be the first day of winter, but the sun will be aligned with the milkyway. That's why they ended there calendar then. Nothing's going to happen.
Farewell
Farewell
In 2012 my fart will be extremely toxic and smelly. It will wipe out entire humanity.
OR...if you want I could just hold it back.
OR...if you want I could just hold it back.
Exactly Joshua! The Mayans were great astronomers, plain and simple. It is a new astronomical period. And the calendar doesn't end on that date like many believe. It continues. As will life. So lets party! I won't be around to fire up the BBQ next time the sun crosses the galactical plane......
edit: vkamath, you are officially UNINVITED......
The Mayans were great astronomers, plain and simple. It is a new astronomical period. And the calendar doesn't end on that date like many believe. It continues. As will life. So lets party! I won't be around to fire up the BBQ next time the sun crosses the galactical plane...... edit: vkamath, you are officially UNINVITED......
QUOTE (vkamath+)
Newguy,
This story is a little confusing to me. Probably because I have a scientific bent of mind. I have some questions
This story is a little confusing to me. Probably because I have a scientific bent of mind. I have some questions
QUOTE (newguy+)
One night, while sitting at home(we rented a house in Navarre) and chatting, my wife suddenly "went stiff"(she was sitting on the floor next to me at the time and engaged in a conversation with her mother) and fell over backwards with tears slowing streaming down her face.
1)According to your wife's account, what exactly did she experience?
2) Did she see any demons?
3) Did she have any other symptoms apart from falling backwards and tears?
vkamath: Before answering your questions, I'm going to give you just a little background information that might better help you to understand some of what transpired in regards to my wife's paralysis and my response to it. First of all, I knew my wife(she wasn't my wife at that time) from a Bible study that I used to teach in Pennsylvania. We were never anything more than just friends. At one point about 5 1/2 years ago, I needed to go down to Navarre, Florida to help out of friend of mine who was having some troubles. Coincidentally(?), at the same time my wife(as I said, we were just friends at this point) and her friend needed to go down to Pensacola, Florida to visit her cousin and then she and her friend were supposed to go on a missionary trip with a couple that they knew from Florida. Since we had similar destinations(Navarre and Pensacola aren't all that far apart from each other) and since none of us had a car(as I testified in the past, I had given mine away to someone years earlier), we all boarded a bus from NYC to Florida(I think it was about a 27 hour ride). Once we reached Florida, my eventual wife and I were supposed to be seeing each other for the last time. Not only was she supposed to embark on a missionary trip, but she was also engaged to be married to another man. Well, to make a long story short, during the bus trip to Florida, God spoke to me and told me that she was going to be my wife(I hadn't dated anyone for about 15 years prior to this). As it turned out, on the same bus ride, God spoke to my eventual wife that I was going to be her husband and we were engaged 11 days later and then got married on the beach in Florida just 3 months after that. I told you all of that to simply say this: Due to the "quickness" of our marriage, I didn't know a heck of alot about my wife's background. Quite frankly, I hardly knew anything. Now on to your questions.
1. According to my wife's account, PHYSICALLY she experienced total paralysis of her body(that is why she fell over backwards), while emotionally or mentally she experienced fear(she was crying because she thought that what the doctors in Panama had told her might one day come upon her was now a reality).
2. No, she did not see any demons and, just for the record, I've never seen one either.
3. As far as other symptons are concerned, please understand that this whole incident only lasted about a few minutes or so. She was basically focused in on the aforementioned paralysis and the fear associated with it.
1)According to your wife's account, what exactly did she experience?
2) Did she see any demons?
3) Did she have any other symptoms apart from falling backwards and tears?
vkamath: Before answering your questions, I'm going to give you just a little background information that might better help you to understand some of what transpired in regards to my wife's paralysis and my response to it. First of all, I knew my wife(she wasn't my wife at that time) from a Bible study that I used to teach in Pennsylvania. We were never anything more than just friends. At one point about 5 1/2 years ago, I needed to go down to Navarre, Florida to help out of friend of mine who was having some troubles. Coincidentally(?), at the same time my wife(as I said, we were just friends at this point) and her friend needed to go down to Pensacola, Florida to visit her cousin and then she and her friend were supposed to go on a missionary trip with a couple that they knew from Florida. Since we had similar destinations(Navarre and Pensacola aren't all that far apart from each other) and since none of us had a car(as I testified in the past, I had given mine away to someone years earlier), we all boarded a bus from NYC to Florida(I think it was about a 27 hour ride). Once we reached Florida, my eventual wife and I were supposed to be seeing each other for the last time. Not only was she supposed to embark on a missionary trip, but she was also engaged to be married to another man. Well, to make a long story short, during the bus trip to Florida, God spoke to me and told me that she was going to be my wife(I hadn't dated anyone for about 15 years prior to this). As it turned out, on the same bus ride, God spoke to my eventual wife that I was going to be her husband and we were engaged 11 days later and then got married on the beach in Florida just 3 months after that. I told you all of that to simply say this: Due to the "quickness" of our marriage, I didn't know a heck of alot about my wife's background. Quite frankly, I hardly knew anything. Now on to your questions.
1. According to my wife's account, PHYSICALLY she experienced total paralysis of her body(that is why she fell over backwards), while emotionally or mentally she experienced fear(she was crying because she thought that what the doctors in Panama had told her might one day come upon her was now a reality).
2. No, she did not see any demons and, just for the record, I've never seen one either.
3. As far as other symptons are concerned, please understand that this whole incident only lasted about a few minutes or so. She was basically focused in on the aforementioned paralysis and the fear associated with it.
QUOTE (newguy+)
We spoke to her, but all she did was slowly release her tears. I've gotten to the point where "deliverance"(casting out demons in Jesus Christ's name) is so commonplace that I think it is not only my "second nature" to pray deliverance, but, rather, my "first nature"
QUOTE (vkamath+)
The symptoms you have mentioned so far seems to be for mental seizure which is not rare. It happens to perfectly normal human beings due to hyperactivity in the brain.
4) How did you assume this was demonic possession? Did you even consider other possibilities?
The symptons may very well have great similarity to what you've described, however, by the time I'm finished, hopefully you'll understand why I've ruled out that possibility in hindsight.
4. I'm not picking on words, but I wouldn't say that it was demonic "possession". I know that that terminology appears frequently in the King James Version of the Bible, but it would better be translated as "demonized". Honestly, no, at that time I did not even consider other possibilities. I can understand why this might seem either strange or bizarre to you, but I'll attempt to explain to you now why it was the "logical" conclusion for me at that time. As I've testified before, prior to my wife's paralysis in Navarre, both my wife and I had successfully prayed deliverance for several people in Florida. Spiritual warfare is just that...it is a war. With this mindset(and I've had enough experience in this area where this is my "normal" mindset), a "counter-attack" could be pretty much expected. This was certainly one of them, but not the last, by any means.
4) How did you assume this was demonic possession? Did you even consider other possibilities?
The symptons may very well have great similarity to what you've described, however, by the time I'm finished, hopefully you'll understand why I've ruled out that possibility in hindsight.
4. I'm not picking on words, but I wouldn't say that it was demonic "possession". I know that that terminology appears frequently in the King James Version of the Bible, but it would better be translated as "demonized". Honestly, no, at that time I did not even consider other possibilities. I can understand why this might seem either strange or bizarre to you, but I'll attempt to explain to you now why it was the "logical" conclusion for me at that time. As I've testified before, prior to my wife's paralysis in Navarre, both my wife and I had successfully prayed deliverance for several people in Florida. Spiritual warfare is just that...it is a war. With this mindset(and I've had enough experience in this area where this is my "normal" mindset), a "counter-attack" could be pretty much expected. This was certainly one of them, but not the last, by any means.
QUOTE (newguy+)
More than one manifested and came out of her(yes, 555Joshua, they came out "screaming") and she has been fine ever since.
QUOTE (vkamath+)
I am not sure what 'manifested' means.
5) Did you see or hear any demons? If you heard screaming, did the voice come from your wife or some other source?
"Manifested" merely means "made themselves known". Let me explain. "Demons" or "spirits" are living beings. They have knowledge, they have the ability to speak, they have lusts or desires and they have supernatural strength. Scripturally speaking, human bodies are oftentimes described as being either "temples" or "houses". If a "spirit" can gain access to a human body, then "casting them out" is basically just that. They are being "expelled" or "evicted" and they don't go willingly. There are oftentimes "manifestations" before a demon leaves someone's body. I'll quickly give one Biblical example of this(there are many more):
"And one of the multitude answered and said, Master, I have brought unto thee my son, which hath a dumb spirit; And wheresoever he taketh him, he teareth him: and he foameth, and gnasheth with his teeth, and pineth away: and I spake to thy disciples that they should cast him out; and they could not. He answereth him, and saith, O faithless generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him unto me. And they brought him unto him: and when he saw him, straightway the spirit tare him; and he fell on the ground, and wallowed foaming. And he asked his father, How long is it ago since this came unto him? And he said, Of a child. And ofttimes it hath cast him into the fire, and into the waters, to destroy him: but if thou canst do any thing, have compassion on us, and help us. Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth. And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief. When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him. And the spirit cried, and rent him sore, and came out of him: and he was as one dead; insomuch that many said, He is dead. But Jesus took him by the hand, and lifted him up; and he arose."
(Mark 9:17-27)
There are alot of different "manifestations" in just this one account and I've personally witnessed some of them myself on alot more than one occasion.
"Gnashing of teeth"...many times.
"Spirit tare or tore him"...many times. Similar outwardly to a convulsion. Looks like the person is being torn from inside. Oftentimes contortions around the facial area.
"Spirit cried or screamed or roared"...multitude of times.
"He was as one dead"...at least twice. I prayed for a friend of mine once whose wife was totally opposed to deliverance(Many would gladly have her as their "queen" on this forum. She was supposedly a Christian, but she was the biggest hypocrite that you'd ever want to meet. She despised Christ.) Anyhow, the first time that I prayed for her husband in their living room, he was "thrown" about 5 feet or so and was just lying there. I honestly thought that he was dead and that his wife was going to kill me. I know this isn't a "light" topic, but I'm just being honest. Anyhow, he got up shortly thereafter and he had been delivered.
5. Once again, neither I nor my wife saw a demon. As far as the voice is concerned, we would both publicly testify(most would simply dismiss it as hearsay) that it was definitely not her voice. As I stated before, a demon is being "cast out" against its will and will oftentimes "manifest" both physically and verbally.
5) Did you see or hear any demons? If you heard screaming, did the voice come from your wife or some other source?
"Manifested" merely means "made themselves known". Let me explain. "Demons" or "spirits" are living beings. They have knowledge, they have the ability to speak, they have lusts or desires and they have supernatural strength. Scripturally speaking, human bodies are oftentimes described as being either "temples" or "houses". If a "spirit" can gain access to a human body, then "casting them out" is basically just that. They are being "expelled" or "evicted" and they don't go willingly. There are oftentimes "manifestations" before a demon leaves someone's body. I'll quickly give one Biblical example of this(there are many more):
"And one of the multitude answered and said, Master, I have brought unto thee my son, which hath a dumb spirit; And wheresoever he taketh him, he teareth him: and he foameth, and gnasheth with his teeth, and pineth away: and I spake to thy disciples that they should cast him out; and they could not. He answereth him, and saith, O faithless generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him unto me. And they brought him unto him: and when he saw him, straightway the spirit tare him; and he fell on the ground, and wallowed foaming. And he asked his father, How long is it ago since this came unto him? And he said, Of a child. And ofttimes it hath cast him into the fire, and into the waters, to destroy him: but if thou canst do any thing, have compassion on us, and help us. Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth. And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief. When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him. And the spirit cried, and rent him sore, and came out of him: and he was as one dead; insomuch that many said, He is dead. But Jesus took him by the hand, and lifted him up; and he arose."
(Mark 9:17-27)
There are alot of different "manifestations" in just this one account and I've personally witnessed some of them myself on alot more than one occasion.
"Gnashing of teeth"...many times.
"Spirit tare or tore him"...many times. Similar outwardly to a convulsion. Looks like the person is being torn from inside. Oftentimes contortions around the facial area.
"Spirit cried or screamed or roared"...multitude of times.
"He was as one dead"...at least twice. I prayed for a friend of mine once whose wife was totally opposed to deliverance(Many would gladly have her as their "queen" on this forum. She was supposedly a Christian, but she was the biggest hypocrite that you'd ever want to meet. She despised Christ.) Anyhow, the first time that I prayed for her husband in their living room, he was "thrown" about 5 feet or so and was just lying there. I honestly thought that he was dead and that his wife was going to kill me. I know this isn't a "light" topic, but I'm just being honest. Anyhow, he got up shortly thereafter and he had been delivered.
5. Once again, neither I nor my wife saw a demon. As far as the voice is concerned, we would both publicly testify(most would simply dismiss it as hearsay) that it was definitely not her voice. As I stated before, a demon is being "cast out" against its will and will oftentimes "manifest" both physically and verbally.
QUOTE (newguy+)
Anyhow, through their direct involvement in witchcraft and with witchdoctors, my wife and her family members have "picked up"(I don't know what other terminology to use) many "spirits", some of which they have since been delivered from. My mother-in-law is pretty much a "storehouse of sickness" to this very day.
QUOTE (vkamath+)
It seems like your wife's sickness is hereditary.
6) Does you mother-in-law exhibit similar symptoms?
7) Please explain what you mean by "storehouse of sickness". What symptoms does she exhibit?
Once again, I can certainly understand your beliefs concerning "hereditary sickness". Without specifically addressing that topic at this moment, I will say that I've dealt with what would be commonly known as(at least in some Christian "circles") "generational curses".
6. As far as the paralysis is concerned, no. At the same time, in other areas, there have been many commonalities between my wife and her mother.
7. By "storehouse of sickness", I simply mean that she has had, and still does have, many different ailments, many of which doctors have been unable to diagnose the cause of them(Mainly pains in various parts of her body). She has also had problems with asthma, congestive heart failure and a host of other diseases/conditions.
6) Does you mother-in-law exhibit similar symptoms?
7) Please explain what you mean by "storehouse of sickness". What symptoms does she exhibit?
Once again, I can certainly understand your beliefs concerning "hereditary sickness". Without specifically addressing that topic at this moment, I will say that I've dealt with what would be commonly known as(at least in some Christian "circles") "generational curses".
6. As far as the paralysis is concerned, no. At the same time, in other areas, there have been many commonalities between my wife and her mother.
7. By "storehouse of sickness", I simply mean that she has had, and still does have, many different ailments, many of which doctors have been unable to diagnose the cause of them(Mainly pains in various parts of her body). She has also had problems with asthma, congestive heart failure and a host of other diseases/conditions.
QUOTE (newguy+)
She has just about everything wrong with her that you could imagine and has been to many different doctors. None of them can diagnose the cause of any of her many illnesses and pains. We(my wife and I) have diagnosed plenty of them already.
QUOTE (vkamath+)
Diagnosing a problem is not a simple process. Sometimes it requires a lot of investigation and still the cause cannot be determined. But that does not mean we should find super-natural explanations.
In the event you described for your wife, you did not mention having consulted any doctor.
I understand what you're saying about "diagnosis" and yet, at the same time, as I've stated before, "experience" is a very big factor where deliverance is concerned. I have had many similar experiences with people that were in no way related to each other and lived in totally different states. In "war", you can learn alot about "the enemy" and how he operates. As far as my mother-in-law is concerned, my wife and I have prayed for her(when she's allowed us to) and, among other things, she regained hearing in one of her ears(she was born deaf in that ear). Additionally, she is at least the second person that I've prayed for who seemed to be "dead". So much so that my wife ran out of the room and locked herself in the bathroom and my wife's cousin ran out of the house and drove home(My wife is laughing as I read this aloud to her...I can assure you, she wasn't laughing when it originally happened). In my mother-in-law's case, it was like something out of a horror movie. Literally.
No, we did not consult any doctor. First of all(really second of all), this all transpired very quickly. Secondly(really first of all), I have thoroughly studied the medical profession in the past and I'll be happy to share some of my "findings" with you in the future.
That's all for now. Dinnertime. Talk to you later. Oh, by the way, thanks for asking your questions in a mature manner. I appreciate it. And, as always, this is about Jesus Christ(not me) and his superiority over the demonic realm and sickness.
In the event you described for your wife, you did not mention having consulted any doctor.
I understand what you're saying about "diagnosis" and yet, at the same time, as I've stated before, "experience" is a very big factor where deliverance is concerned. I have had many similar experiences with people that were in no way related to each other and lived in totally different states. In "war", you can learn alot about "the enemy" and how he operates. As far as my mother-in-law is concerned, my wife and I have prayed for her(when she's allowed us to) and, among other things, she regained hearing in one of her ears(she was born deaf in that ear). Additionally, she is at least the second person that I've prayed for who seemed to be "dead". So much so that my wife ran out of the room and locked herself in the bathroom and my wife's cousin ran out of the house and drove home(My wife is laughing as I read this aloud to her...I can assure you, she wasn't laughing when it originally happened). In my mother-in-law's case, it was like something out of a horror movie. Literally.
No, we did not consult any doctor. First of all(really second of all), this all transpired very quickly. Secondly(really first of all), I have thoroughly studied the medical profession in the past and I'll be happy to share some of my "findings" with you in the future.
That's all for now. Dinnertime. Talk to you later. Oh, by the way, thanks for asking your questions in a mature manner. I appreciate it. And, as always, this is about Jesus Christ(not me) and his superiority over the demonic realm and sickness.
QUOTE ("THEY"+Apr 24 2006, 01:18 PM)
Exactly Joshua! The Mayans were great astronomers, plain and simple. It is a new astronomical period. And the calendar doesn't end on that date like many believe. It continues. As will life. So lets party! I won't be around to fire up the BBQ next time the sun crosses the galactical plane......
edit: vkamath, you are officially UNINVITED......
Sounds like a plan to me. Party at THEY's house, winter solstice 2012! I'll bring the potato salad.
The Mayans were great astronomers, plain and simple. It is a new astronomical period. And the calendar doesn't end on that date like many believe. It continues. As will life. So lets party! I won't be around to fire up the BBQ next time the sun crosses the galactical plane...... edit: vkamath, you are officially UNINVITED......
Sounds like a plan to me. Party at THEY's house, winter solstice 2012! I'll bring the potato salad.
Everything has an end.
So....just make every second worthwhile....
So....just make every second worthwhile....
Newguy,
Thanks for taking the time to answers all my questions in detail.
I have myself experienced total paralysis, but my experience was during sleep. This has happened 2 to 3 times when I was around 17-18 years old. I did not have any hallucinations, but I was having complete paralysis. I could not move an inch of my body. I was completely awake. I could not even scream for help. It was very frightening. The only thing I could do was to take my time and relax and then go back to sleep. Once I learned to do that, this stopped happening. I have mentioned this incident earlier in the Ghosts topic on Physorg.
I did not find any evidence to link this with anything supernatural.
I have myself experienced total paralysis, but my experience was during sleep. This has happened 2 to 3 times when I was around 17-18 years old. I did not have any hallucinations, but I was having complete paralysis. I could not move an inch of my body. I was completely awake. I could not even scream for help. It was very frightening. The only thing I could do was to take my time and relax and then go back to sleep. Once I learned to do that, this stopped happening. I have mentioned this incident earlier in the Ghosts topic on Physorg.
I did not find any evidence to link this with anything supernatural.
2. No, she did not see any demons and, just for the record, I've never seen one either.
Due to your inclinations towards spiritual and religious matters, you find Demons to be the best explanation.
I have never experienced or even seen anybody ever being 'demonized'. I think this is due to my habit of look at hard evidence before reaching any conclusion. I don't have the Spiritual warfare mindset.
So this is bizarre for me, but normal for you.
I have never experienced or even seen anybody ever being 'demonized'. I think this is due to my habit of look at hard evidence before reaching any conclusion. I don't have the Spiritual warfare mindset.
So this is bizarre for me, but normal for you.
"Manifested" merely means "made themselves known". Let me explain. "Demons" or "spirits" are living beings. They have knowledge, they have the ability to speak, they have lusts or desires and they have supernatural strength. Scripturally speaking, human bodies are oftentimes described as being either "temples" or "houses". If a "spirit" can gain access to a human body, then "casting them out" is basically just that.
What I note here is that manifestations are always symptoms of the patient. Were there any manifestations apart from the victim? As you mentioned, you have never seen a demon. Have you heard a demonic voice at a different location from where the patient was present?
My father-in-law has diabetes and heart disease. My mother-in-law has (high) blood pressure, regular stomach indigestion and pains in parts of her body. These are not illnesses that just disappear overnight. They take good precautions such as regularizing sleep, food habits, exercise to prevent any problems. They have never considered undergoing 'deliverance'.
I see the root cause of their problems as the following
1) Age
2) Heredity
3) High stress in their jobs and their lives in the past.
4) Improper food and sleep habits in the past
My father-in-law has diabetes and heart disease. My mother-in-law has (high) blood pressure, regular stomach indigestion and pains in parts of her body. These are not illnesses that just disappear overnight. They take good precautions such as regularizing sleep, food habits, exercise to prevent any problems. They have never considered undergoing 'deliverance'.
I see the root cause of their problems as the following
1) Age
2) Heredity
3) High stress in their jobs and their lives in the past.
4) Improper food and sleep habits in the past
No, we did not consult any doctor. First of all(really second of all), this all transpired very quickly. Secondly(really first of all), I have thoroughly studied the medical profession in the past and I'll be happy to share some of my "findings" with you in the future.
If I had such a incident, I would seek help from professionals in the medical field.
Thanks for taking the time to answers all my questions in detail.
QUOTE
1. According to my wife's account, PHYSICALLY she experienced total paralysis of her body(that is why she fell over backwards), while emotionally or mentally she experienced fear(she was crying because she thought that what the doctors in Panama had told her might one day come upon her was now a reality).
I have myself experienced total paralysis, but my experience was during sleep. This has happened 2 to 3 times when I was around 17-18 years old. I did not have any hallucinations, but I was having complete paralysis. I could not move an inch of my body. I was completely awake. I could not even scream for help. It was very frightening. The only thing I could do was to take my time and relax and then go back to sleep. Once I learned to do that, this stopped happening. I have mentioned this incident earlier in the Ghosts topic on Physorg.
I did not find any evidence to link this with anything supernatural.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| 1. According to my wife's account, PHYSICALLY she experienced total paralysis of her body(that is why she fell over backwards), while emotionally or mentally she experienced fear(she was crying because she thought that what the doctors in Panama had told her might one day come upon her was now a reality). |
I have myself experienced total paralysis, but my experience was during sleep. This has happened 2 to 3 times when I was around 17-18 years old. I did not have any hallucinations, but I was having complete paralysis. I could not move an inch of my body. I was completely awake. I could not even scream for help. It was very frightening. The only thing I could do was to take my time and relax and then go back to sleep. Once I learned to do that, this stopped happening. I have mentioned this incident earlier in the Ghosts topic on Physorg.
I did not find any evidence to link this with anything supernatural.
2. No, she did not see any demons and, just for the record, I've never seen one either.
Due to your inclinations towards spiritual and religious matters, you find Demons to be the best explanation.
QUOTE
As I've testified before, prior to my wife's paralysis in Navarre, both my wife and I had successfully prayed deliverance for several people in Florida. Spiritual warfare is just that...it is a war. With this mindset(and I've had enough experience in this area where this is my "normal" mindset), a "counter-attack" could be pretty much expected.
I have never experienced or even seen anybody ever being 'demonized'. I think this is due to my habit of look at hard evidence before reaching any conclusion. I don't have the Spiritual warfare mindset.
So this is bizarre for me, but normal for you.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| As I've testified before, prior to my wife's paralysis in Navarre, both my wife and I had successfully prayed deliverance for several people in Florida. Spiritual warfare is just that...it is a war. With this mindset(and I've had enough experience in this area where this is my "normal" mindset), a "counter-attack" could be pretty much expected. |
I have never experienced or even seen anybody ever being 'demonized'. I think this is due to my habit of look at hard evidence before reaching any conclusion. I don't have the Spiritual warfare mindset.
So this is bizarre for me, but normal for you.
"Manifested" merely means "made themselves known". Let me explain. "Demons" or "spirits" are living beings. They have knowledge, they have the ability to speak, they have lusts or desires and they have supernatural strength. Scripturally speaking, human bodies are oftentimes described as being either "temples" or "houses". If a "spirit" can gain access to a human body, then "casting them out" is basically just that.
What I note here is that manifestations are always symptoms of the patient. Were there any manifestations apart from the victim? As you mentioned, you have never seen a demon. Have you heard a demonic voice at a different location from where the patient was present?
QUOTE
7. By "storehouse of sickness", I simply mean that she has had, and still does have, many different ailments, many of which doctors have been unable to diagnose the cause of them(Mainly pains in various parts of her body). She has also had problems with asthma, congestive heart failure and a host of other diseases/conditions.
My father-in-law has diabetes and heart disease. My mother-in-law has (high) blood pressure, regular stomach indigestion and pains in parts of her body. These are not illnesses that just disappear overnight. They take good precautions such as regularizing sleep, food habits, exercise to prevent any problems. They have never considered undergoing 'deliverance'.
I see the root cause of their problems as the following
1) Age
2) Heredity
3) High stress in their jobs and their lives in the past.
4) Improper food and sleep habits in the past
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| 7. By "storehouse of sickness", I simply mean that she has had, and still does have, many different ailments, many of which doctors have been unable to diagnose the cause of them(Mainly pains in various parts of her body). She has also had problems with asthma, congestive heart failure and a host of other diseases/conditions. |
My father-in-law has diabetes and heart disease. My mother-in-law has (high) blood pressure, regular stomach indigestion and pains in parts of her body. These are not illnesses that just disappear overnight. They take good precautions such as regularizing sleep, food habits, exercise to prevent any problems. They have never considered undergoing 'deliverance'.
I see the root cause of their problems as the following
1) Age
2) Heredity
3) High stress in their jobs and their lives in the past.
4) Improper food and sleep habits in the past
No, we did not consult any doctor. First of all(really second of all), this all transpired very quickly. Secondly(really first of all), I have thoroughly studied the medical profession in the past and I'll be happy to share some of my "findings" with you in the future.
If I had such a incident, I would seek help from professionals in the medical field.
vkamath: I just got home from a 19 hour work day. I'll do my best to respond to your post tomorrow. Thanks.
QUOTE (vkamath+)
Diagnosing a problem is not a simple process. Sometimes it requires a lot of investigation and still the cause cannot be determined. But that does not mean we should find super-natural explanations.
In the event you described for your wife, you did not mention having consulted any doctor.
In the event you described for your wife, you did not mention having consulted any doctor.
QUOTE (vkamath+)
If I had such a incident, I would seek help from professionals in the medical field.
vkamath: I do plan on addressing the entirety of your most recent questions for me at a later time, however, for now, I just want to focus in on the medical profession a little. The medical profession may not be as "natural" as you apparently think it is. As I mentioned in a previous post, I have studied the origins of the medical profession somewhat extensively in the past. I had, at one time several years ago, put together several pages of information regarding the medical profession, but, alas, my wife and I suffered a fire nearly four years ago in which we pretty much lost everything(including my research papers) but our lives and my Bible. Anyhow, here's a few tidbits for you to hopefully consider. Let's start with the "Hippocratic Oath":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath
The Hippocratic Oath is an oath traditionally taken by physicians pertaining to the ethical practice of medicine. It's widely believed that the oath was written by Hippocrates or one of his students 1, but recently it has been proposed that the oath was written by Pythagoreans [1]. Although mostly of historical and traditional value, the oath is considered a rite of passage for practitioners of medicine. The Hippocratic Oath (Original, translated from Greek. The oath is reportedly that of Hippocrates, the parent of medicine, written in the 4th Century B.C.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I swear by Apollo the physician, by Æsculapius, Hygeia, and Panacea, and I take to witness all the gods, all the goddesses, to keep according to my ability and my judgement, the following Oath.
To consider dear to me as my parents him who taught me this art; to live in common with him and if necessary to share my goods with him; To look upon his children as my own brothers, to teach them this art if they so desire without fee or written promise; to impart to my sons and the sons of the master who taught me and the disciples who have enrolled themselves and have agreed to the rules of the profession, but to these alone the precepts and the instruction.
I will prescribe regimens for the good of my patients according to my ability and my judgment and never do harm to anyone.
To please no one will I prescribe a deadly drug nor give advice which may cause his death.
Nor will I give a woman a pessary to procure abortion.
But I will preserve the purity of my life and my art.
I will not cut for stone, even for patients in whom the disease is manifest; I will leave this operation to be performed by practitioners, specialists in this art.
In every house where I come I will enter only for the good of my patients, keeping myself far from all intentional ill-doing and all seduction and especially from the pleasures of love with women or with men, be they free or slaves.
All that may come to my knowledge in the exercise of my profession or in daily commerce with men, which ought not to be spread abroad, I will keep secret and will never reveal.
If I keep this oath faithfully, may I enjoy my life and practice my art, respected by all men and in all times; but if I swerve from it or violate it, may the reverse be my lot."
Seems that they forgot that part about aiding women to "procure abortions", but that's another topic for another day. Anyhow, I trust you noticed the names of certain "gods" followed by a generic reference to "all the gods" and "all the goddesses".
Let's look briefly at the symbol for the medical profession, shall we?
http://drblayney.com/Asclepius.html#worm
The Caduceus vs the Staff of Asclepius (Asklepian 03)
Keith Blayney Sept 2002, revised Oct 2005
Mercury (Hermes) & merchant approach disapproving Asclepius (Physician) and the naked Graces (Meditrine, Hygeia and Panacea)
[Engraved from an original in the then Museum Pio Clemens in Rome
Galerie Mythologique, Recueil de Monuments by Aubin Louis Millin, Paris 1811.]
- Asclepius dealt with patients - merchants make deals with clients
- Asclepius is linked with a constellation of idealistic medical ideas
- Hermes is linked with hermetic occultism
- Mercury is identified with mercantile mercenary views
[1] The Caduceus of Mercury (Roman) and the Karykeion of Hermes (Greek)
Many "medical" organisations use a symbol of a short rod entwined by two snakes and topped by a pair of wings, which is actually the caduceus or magic wand of the Greek god Hermes (Roman Mercury), messenger of the gods, inventor of (magical) incantations, conductor of the dead and protector of merchants and thieves. It is derived from the Greek karykeion = "herald's staff", itself based on the word "eruko" meaning restrain, control.
It is interesting to see that most of organisations using this symbol are generally either commercial or military (or American). New Zealand examples include drug and pharmaceutical companies. A study by Friedlander confirms this impression.
The link between the caduceus of Hermes (Mercury) and medicine seems to have arisen by the seventh century A.D., when Hermes had come to be linked with alchemy. Alchemists were referred to as the sons of Hermes, as Hermetists or Hermeticists and as "practitioners of the hermetic arts". There are clear occult associations with the caduceus.
The caduceus was the magic staff of Hermes (Mercury), the god of commerce, eloquence, invention, travel and theft, and so was a symbol of heralds and commerce, not medicine.
The words caduity & caducous imply temporality, perishableness and senility, while the medical profession espouses renewal, vitality and health.
[2] The Staff of Asclepius (Æsclepius, Asklepios)
[Personification of Medical or healing Art and its ideals]
Professional and patient centred organisations (such as the NZMA, in fact most medical Associations around the world including the World Health Organization) use the "correct" and traditional symbol of medicine, the staff of Asclepius with a single serpent encircling a staff, classically a rough-hewn knotty tree limb. Asclepius (an ancient greek physician deified as the god of medicine) is traditionally depicted as a bearded man wearing a robe that leaves his chest uncovered and holding a staff with his sacred single serpent coiled around it, (example right) symbolizing renewal of youth as the serpent casts off its skin. The single serpent staff also appears on a Sumerian vase of c. 2000 B.C. representing the healing god Ningishita, the prototype of the Greek Asklepios. However, there is a more practical origin postulated which makes sense [See Dracunculus medinensis].
Asclepius and his staff
Statue of Askleppios at Guys Hospital
Who was Asclepius? Asclepius was most probably a skilled physician who practised in Greece around 1200BC (and described in Homer's Iliad). Eventually through myth and legend he came to be worshipped as Asclepius, the (Greek) god of Healing. [See BBC reference]
Medical schools developed, which were usually connected to temples or shrines called Asclepions (Asclepieia) dedicated to Asclepius. The Asclepion became very important in Greek society. Patients believed they could be cured by sleeping in them. They would visit, offering gifts and sacrifices to the god, and be treated by priest healers (called the Asclepiadae). The worship of Asclepius spread to Rome and continued as late as the sixth century.
The Asclepiadae were a large order of priest physicians who controlled the sacred secrets of healing, which were passed from father to son. Harmless Aesculapian snakes were kept in the combination hospital-temples built by the ancient Greeks and, later, by the Romans in honor of the god. The snakes are found not only in their original range of southern Europe, but also in the various places in Germany and Austria where Roman temples had been established. Escaped snakes survived and flourished.
Smooth, glossy, and slender, the snake has a uniformly brown back with a streak of darker color behind the eyes. The snake's belly is yellowish or whitish and has ridged scales that catch easily on rough surfaces, making it especially adapted for climbing trees. Scientific classification: The Aesculapian snake belongs to the family Colubridae. It is classified as Elaphe longissima.
The Myth: Asclepius is the god of Healing. He is the son of Apollo and the nymph, Coronis. While pregnant with Asclepius, Coronis secretly took a second, mortal lover. When Apollo found out, he sent Artemis to kill her. While burning on the funeral pyre, Apollo felt pity and rescued the unborn child from the corpse. Asclepius was taught about medicine and healing by the wise centaur, Cheiron, and became so skilled in it that he succeeded in bringing one of his patients back from the dead. Zeus felt that the immortality of the Gods was threatened and killed the healer with a thunderbolt. At Apollo's request, Asclepius was placed among the stars as Ophiuchus, the serpent-bearer.
Meditrine, Hygeia and Panacea: The children of Asclepius included his daughters Meditrina, Hygeia and Panacea who were symbols of medicine, hygiene and healing (literally, "all healing") respectively. Two of the sons of Asclepius appeared in Homer's Illiad as physicians in the Greek army (Machaon and Podalirius).
Note that the classic Hippocratice Oath is sworn "by Apollo the physician, by Æsculapius, Hygeia, and Panacea, ....."
The probable medical origin of the single serpent around a rod: In ancient times infection by parasitic worms was common. The filarial worm Dracunculus medinensis aka "the fiery serpent", aka "the dragon of Medina" aka "the guinea worm" crawled around the victim's body, just under the skin. Physicians treated this infection by cutting a slit in the patient's skin, just in front of the worm's path. As the worm crawled out the cut, the physician carefully wound the pest around a stick until the entire animal had been removed. It is believed that because this type of infection was so common, physicians advertised their services by displaying a sign with the worm on a stick. [See graphic photos -not for the faint-hearted or Benjamin.]
The staff as a Medical symbol: From the early 16th century onwards, the staff of Asclepius and the caduceus of Hermes were widely used as printers’ marks especially as frontispieces to pharmacopoeias in the 17th and 18th centuries. Over time the rod and serpent (the Asclepian staff) emerged as an independent symbol of medicine.
Despite the unequivocal claim of the staff of Asclepius to represent medicine (and healing), the caduceus, a rod with two entwined serpents topped by a pair of wings appears to be the more popular symbol of medicine in the United States, probably due to simple confusion between the caduceus and the staff of Asclepius, the true symbol of medicine. Many people use the word caduceus to mean both of these emblems.
If you do a little research on your own(as I did many years ago), then I trust that you will discover that the earliest "hospitals" were "pagan temples" that were dedicated to the "gods" of healing. Continuing on with this same article:
The Caduceus of Hermes
The Greek Hermes found his analogue in Egypt as the ancient Wisdom god Thoth, as Taaut of the Phoenicians and in Rome as the god Mercury (all linked with a magic rod with twin snakes).
The mythical origin of his magic twin serpent caduceus is described in the story of Tiresias. Poulenc, in "Les Mamelles de Tiresias" (The Breasts of Tiresias) tells how Tiresias--the seer who was so unhelpful to Oepidus and Family- found two snakes copulating, and to separate them stuck his staff between them. Immediately he was turned into a woman, and remained so for seven years, until he was able to repeat his action, and change back to male. The transformative power in this story, strong enough to completely reverse even physical polarities of male and female, comes from the union of the two serpents, passed on by the wand. Tiresias' staff, complete with serpents, was later passed on to Hermes...
Occult Hermetic Connection: An occult description of the Caduceus of Hermes (Mercury) is that the serpents may represent positive and negative kundalini as it moves through the chakras and around the spine (the staff) to the head where it communicates with MIND by intellection, the domain of Mercury [wings].
Caduceus Power Wand: This wand is sold at occult, new age & witchcraft stores such as Abaxion with descriptions such as "It's central phallic rod represents the potentiality of the masculine, and is initmately surrounded by the writhing, woven shakti energies of two coupling serpents. The rod also represents the spine [sushumna] while the serpents conduct spiritual currents [pranas] along the ida and pingala channels in a double helix pattern from the chakra at the base of the spine up to the pineal gland".
According to occultists, there are three principal nadis (Sanskrit for channel) in the human body. The sushumna (the spinal column through which the life-forces flow), by which means we enter and leave the body, the Ida (refreshment and stimulation of spirit), which is associated with the higher mind or manas and the Pingala, (reddish-brown), associated with kama or the force of desire. (G. de Purucker "Man in Evolution" ch. 15 & 16; and "Fountain-Source of Occultism", pp. 458-63).
Hermetic: There are few names to which more diverse persons and disciplines lay claim than the term "Hermetic". Alchemists have applied the adjective "Hermetic" to their art, while magicians (not the entertaining type) attach the name to their ceremonies of evocation and invocation. Followers of Meister Eckhart, Raymond Lull, Paracelsus, Jacob Boehme, and most recently Valentin Tomberg are joined by academic scholars of esoterica, all of whom attach the word "Hermetic" to their activities.
The most abiding impact of Hermeticism on Western culture came about by way of the heterodox mystical, or occult, tradition. Renaissance occultism, with its alchemy, astrology, ceremonial magic, and occult medicine, became saturated with the teachings of the Hermetic books. This content has remained a permanent part of the occult transmissions of the West, and, along with Gnosticism and Neoplatonism, represents the foundation of all the major Western occult currents. Hermetic elements are demonstrably present in the Rosicrucian and Theosophical movements.
The caduceus in pseudo-science: There are amazing claims that a Cadeuceus Power Wand has zero impedance and infinite resonance! -check it out here .
The caduceus as a Medical symbol: The link between Hermes and his caduceus and medicine seems to have arisen by Hermes links with alchemy. Alchemists were referred to as the sons of Hermes, as Hermetists or Hermeticists and as "practitioners of the hermetic arts". By the end of the sixteenth century, the study of alchemy included not only medicine and pharmaceuticals but chemistry, mining and metallurgy. Despite learned opinion that it is the single snake staff of Asclepius that is the proper symbol of medicine, many medical groups have adopted the twin serpent caduceus of Hermes or Mercury as a medical symbol during the nineteenth and twentieth centuries.
Like the staff of Asclepius, the caduceus became associated with medicine through its use as a printer’s mark, as printers saw themselves as messengers of the printed word and diffusers of knowledge (hence the choice of the symbol of the messenger of the ancient gods). A major reason for the current popularity of the caduceus as a medical symbol was its illinformed [03] official adoption as the insignia for the Medical Department of the United States Army in 1902.
Once again, I think you can see that the caduceus was linked to both the occult and to something very much resembling what is known today as "yin and yang". I used to possess(they burned in the fire) the entire World Book Encyclopedia from A through Z. In the set that I had, it was clearly documented that the earliest "doctors" were indeed "witchdoctors". Additionally, the earliest forms of "medicine" were clearly linked with "sorcery". It might interest you to know the following(then again, it very well might not interest you):
"Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts."
(Revelation 9:21)
The word that is translated as "sorceries" is the Greek word "pharmakeia" from which we presently derive such words as "pharmacy" and "pharmacist".
Anyway, that was just some "food for thought". Whatever conclusions you personally draw from any of what I've just posted, I'll stick with "Divine healing" and "deliverance" over cutting someone open and ripping out part of their body and pumping them full of pills(while you deplete their finances...remember, the "caduceus" was directly linked to THEFT) any day. Have a good one.
vkamath: I do plan on addressing the entirety of your most recent questions for me at a later time, however, for now, I just want to focus in on the medical profession a little. The medical profession may not be as "natural" as you apparently think it is. As I mentioned in a previous post, I have studied the origins of the medical profession somewhat extensively in the past. I had, at one time several years ago, put together several pages of information regarding the medical profession, but, alas, my wife and I suffered a fire nearly four years ago in which we pretty much lost everything(including my research papers) but our lives and my Bible. Anyhow, here's a few tidbits for you to hopefully consider. Let's start with the "Hippocratic Oath":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath
The Hippocratic Oath is an oath traditionally taken by physicians pertaining to the ethical practice of medicine. It's widely believed that the oath was written by Hippocrates or one of his students 1, but recently it has been proposed that the oath was written by Pythagoreans [1]. Although mostly of historical and traditional value, the oath is considered a rite of passage for practitioners of medicine. The Hippocratic Oath (Original, translated from Greek. The oath is reportedly that of Hippocrates, the parent of medicine, written in the 4th Century B.C.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I swear by Apollo the physician, by Æsculapius, Hygeia, and Panacea, and I take to witness all the gods, all the goddesses, to keep according to my ability and my judgement, the following Oath.
To consider dear to me as my parents him who taught me this art; to live in common with him and if necessary to share my goods with him; To look upon his children as my own brothers, to teach them this art if they so desire without fee or written promise; to impart to my sons and the sons of the master who taught me and the disciples who have enrolled themselves and have agreed to the rules of the profession, but to these alone the precepts and the instruction.
I will prescribe regimens for the good of my patients according to my ability and my judgment and never do harm to anyone.
To please no one will I prescribe a deadly drug nor give advice which may cause his death.
Nor will I give a woman a pessary to procure abortion.
But I will preserve the purity of my life and my art.
I will not cut for stone, even for patients in whom the disease is manifest; I will leave this operation to be performed by practitioners, specialists in this art.
In every house where I come I will enter only for the good of my patients, keeping myself far from all intentional ill-doing and all seduction and especially from the pleasures of love with women or with men, be they free or slaves.
All that may come to my knowledge in the exercise of my profession or in daily commerce with men, which ought not to be spread abroad, I will keep secret and will never reveal.
If I keep this oath faithfully, may I enjoy my life and practice my art, respected by all men and in all times; but if I swerve from it or violate it, may the reverse be my lot."
Seems that they forgot that part about aiding women to "procure abortions", but that's another topic for another day. Anyhow, I trust you noticed the names of certain "gods" followed by a generic reference to "all the gods" and "all the goddesses".
Let's look briefly at the symbol for the medical profession, shall we?
http://drblayney.com/Asclepius.html#worm
The Caduceus vs the Staff of Asclepius (Asklepian 03)
Keith Blayney Sept 2002, revised Oct 2005
Mercury (Hermes) & merchant approach disapproving Asclepius (Physician) and the naked Graces (Meditrine, Hygeia and Panacea)
[Engraved from an original in the then Museum Pio Clemens in Rome
Galerie Mythologique, Recueil de Monuments by Aubin Louis Millin, Paris 1811.]
- Asclepius dealt with patients - merchants make deals with clients
- Asclepius is linked with a constellation of idealistic medical ideas
- Hermes is linked with hermetic occultism
- Mercury is identified with mercantile mercenary views
[1] The Caduceus of Mercury (Roman) and the Karykeion of Hermes (Greek)
Many "medical" organisations use a symbol of a short rod entwined by two snakes and topped by a pair of wings, which is actually the caduceus or magic wand of the Greek god Hermes (Roman Mercury), messenger of the gods, inventor of (magical) incantations, conductor of the dead and protector of merchants and thieves. It is derived from the Greek karykeion = "herald's staff", itself based on the word "eruko" meaning restrain, control.
It is interesting to see that most of organisations using this symbol are generally either commercial or military (or American). New Zealand examples include drug and pharmaceutical companies. A study by Friedlander confirms this impression.
The link between the caduceus of Hermes (Mercury) and medicine seems to have arisen by the seventh century A.D., when Hermes had come to be linked with alchemy. Alchemists were referred to as the sons of Hermes, as Hermetists or Hermeticists and as "practitioners of the hermetic arts". There are clear occult associations with the caduceus.
The caduceus was the magic staff of Hermes (Mercury), the god of commerce, eloquence, invention, travel and theft, and so was a symbol of heralds and commerce, not medicine.
The words caduity & caducous imply temporality, perishableness and senility, while the medical profession espouses renewal, vitality and health.
[2] The Staff of Asclepius (Æsclepius, Asklepios)
[Personification of Medical or healing Art and its ideals]
Professional and patient centred organisations (such as the NZMA, in fact most medical Associations around the world including the World Health Organization) use the "correct" and traditional symbol of medicine, the staff of Asclepius with a single serpent encircling a staff, classically a rough-hewn knotty tree limb. Asclepius (an ancient greek physician deified as the god of medicine) is traditionally depicted as a bearded man wearing a robe that leaves his chest uncovered and holding a staff with his sacred single serpent coiled around it, (example right) symbolizing renewal of youth as the serpent casts off its skin. The single serpent staff also appears on a Sumerian vase of c. 2000 B.C. representing the healing god Ningishita, the prototype of the Greek Asklepios. However, there is a more practical origin postulated which makes sense [See Dracunculus medinensis].
Asclepius and his staff
Statue of Askleppios at Guys Hospital
Who was Asclepius? Asclepius was most probably a skilled physician who practised in Greece around 1200BC (and described in Homer's Iliad). Eventually through myth and legend he came to be worshipped as Asclepius, the (Greek) god of Healing. [See BBC reference]
Medical schools developed, which were usually connected to temples or shrines called Asclepions (Asclepieia) dedicated to Asclepius. The Asclepion became very important in Greek society. Patients believed they could be cured by sleeping in them. They would visit, offering gifts and sacrifices to the god, and be treated by priest healers (called the Asclepiadae). The worship of Asclepius spread to Rome and continued as late as the sixth century.
The Asclepiadae were a large order of priest physicians who controlled the sacred secrets of healing, which were passed from father to son. Harmless Aesculapian snakes were kept in the combination hospital-temples built by the ancient Greeks and, later, by the Romans in honor of the god. The snakes are found not only in their original range of southern Europe, but also in the various places in Germany and Austria where Roman temples had been established. Escaped snakes survived and flourished.
Smooth, glossy, and slender, the snake has a uniformly brown back with a streak of darker color behind the eyes. The snake's belly is yellowish or whitish and has ridged scales that catch easily on rough surfaces, making it especially adapted for climbing trees. Scientific classification: The Aesculapian snake belongs to the family Colubridae. It is classified as Elaphe longissima.
The Myth: Asclepius is the god of Healing. He is the son of Apollo and the nymph, Coronis. While pregnant with Asclepius, Coronis secretly took a second, mortal lover. When Apollo found out, he sent Artemis to kill her. While burning on the funeral pyre, Apollo felt pity and rescued the unborn child from the corpse. Asclepius was taught about medicine and healing by the wise centaur, Cheiron, and became so skilled in it that he succeeded in bringing one of his patients back from the dead. Zeus felt that the immortality of the Gods was threatened and killed the healer with a thunderbolt. At Apollo's request, Asclepius was placed among the stars as Ophiuchus, the serpent-bearer.
Meditrine, Hygeia and Panacea: The children of Asclepius included his daughters Meditrina, Hygeia and Panacea who were symbols of medicine, hygiene and healing (literally, "all healing") respectively. Two of the sons of Asclepius appeared in Homer's Illiad as physicians in the Greek army (Machaon and Podalirius).
Note that the classic Hippocratice Oath is sworn "by Apollo the physician, by Æsculapius, Hygeia, and Panacea, ....."
The probable medical origin of the single serpent around a rod: In ancient times infection by parasitic worms was common. The filarial worm Dracunculus medinensis aka "the fiery serpent", aka "the dragon of Medina" aka "the guinea worm" crawled around the victim's body, just under the skin. Physicians treated this infection by cutting a slit in the patient's skin, just in front of the worm's path. As the worm crawled out the cut, the physician carefully wound the pest around a stick until the entire animal had been removed. It is believed that because this type of infection was so common, physicians advertised their services by displaying a sign with the worm on a stick. [See graphic photos -not for the faint-hearted or Benjamin.]
The staff as a Medical symbol: From the early 16th century onwards, the staff of Asclepius and the caduceus of Hermes were widely used as printers’ marks especially as frontispieces to pharmacopoeias in the 17th and 18th centuries. Over time the rod and serpent (the Asclepian staff) emerged as an independent symbol of medicine.
Despite the unequivocal claim of the staff of Asclepius to represent medicine (and healing), the caduceus, a rod with two entwined serpents topped by a pair of wings appears to be the more popular symbol of medicine in the United States, probably due to simple confusion between the caduceus and the staff of Asclepius, the true symbol of medicine. Many people use the word caduceus to mean both of these emblems.
If you do a little research on your own(as I did many years ago), then I trust that you will discover that the earliest "hospitals" were "pagan temples" that were dedicated to the "gods" of healing. Continuing on with this same article:
The Caduceus of Hermes
The Greek Hermes found his analogue in Egypt as the ancient Wisdom god Thoth, as Taaut of the Phoenicians and in Rome as the god Mercury (all linked with a magic rod with twin snakes).
The mythical origin of his magic twin serpent caduceus is described in the story of Tiresias. Poulenc, in "Les Mamelles de Tiresias" (The Breasts of Tiresias) tells how Tiresias--the seer who was so unhelpful to Oepidus and Family- found two snakes copulating, and to separate them stuck his staff between them. Immediately he was turned into a woman, and remained so for seven years, until he was able to repeat his action, and change back to male. The transformative power in this story, strong enough to completely reverse even physical polarities of male and female, comes from the union of the two serpents, passed on by the wand. Tiresias' staff, complete with serpents, was later passed on to Hermes...
Occult Hermetic Connection: An occult description of the Caduceus of Hermes (Mercury) is that the serpents may represent positive and negative kundalini as it moves through the chakras and around the spine (the staff) to the head where it communicates with MIND by intellection, the domain of Mercury [wings].
Caduceus Power Wand: This wand is sold at occult, new age & witchcraft stores such as Abaxion with descriptions such as "It's central phallic rod represents the potentiality of the masculine, and is initmately surrounded by the writhing, woven shakti energies of two coupling serpents. The rod also represents the spine [sushumna] while the serpents conduct spiritual currents [pranas] along the ida and pingala channels in a double helix pattern from the chakra at the base of the spine up to the pineal gland".
According to occultists, there are three principal nadis (Sanskrit for channel) in the human body. The sushumna (the spinal column through which the life-forces flow), by which means we enter and leave the body, the Ida (refreshment and stimulation of spirit), which is associated with the higher mind or manas and the Pingala, (reddish-brown), associated with kama or the force of desire. (G. de Purucker "Man in Evolution" ch. 15 & 16; and "Fountain-Source of Occultism", pp. 458-63).
Hermetic: There are few names to which more diverse persons and disciplines lay claim than the term "Hermetic". Alchemists have applied the adjective "Hermetic" to their art, while magicians (not the entertaining type) attach the name to their ceremonies of evocation and invocation. Followers of Meister Eckhart, Raymond Lull, Paracelsus, Jacob Boehme, and most recently Valentin Tomberg are joined by academic scholars of esoterica, all of whom attach the word "Hermetic" to their activities.
The most abiding impact of Hermeticism on Western culture came about by way of the heterodox mystical, or occult, tradition. Renaissance occultism, with its alchemy, astrology, ceremonial magic, and occult medicine, became saturated with the teachings of the Hermetic books. This content has remained a permanent part of the occult transmissions of the West, and, along with Gnosticism and Neoplatonism, represents the foundation of all the major Western occult currents. Hermetic elements are demonstrably present in the Rosicrucian and Theosophical movements.
The caduceus in pseudo-science: There are amazing claims that a Cadeuceus Power Wand has zero impedance and infinite resonance! -check it out here .
The caduceus as a Medical symbol: The link between Hermes and his caduceus and medicine seems to have arisen by Hermes links with alchemy. Alchemists were referred to as the sons of Hermes, as Hermetists or Hermeticists and as "practitioners of the hermetic arts". By the end of the sixteenth century, the study of alchemy included not only medicine and pharmaceuticals but chemistry, mining and metallurgy. Despite learned opinion that it is the single snake staff of Asclepius that is the proper symbol of medicine, many medical groups have adopted the twin serpent caduceus of Hermes or Mercury as a medical symbol during the nineteenth and twentieth centuries.
Like the staff of Asclepius, the caduceus became associated with medicine through its use as a printer’s mark, as printers saw themselves as messengers of the printed word and diffusers of knowledge (hence the choice of the symbol of the messenger of the ancient gods). A major reason for the current popularity of the caduceus as a medical symbol was its illinformed [03] official adoption as the insignia for the Medical Department of the United States Army in 1902.
Once again, I think you can see that the caduceus was linked to both the occult and to something very much resembling what is known today as "yin and yang". I used to possess(they burned in the fire) the entire World Book Encyclopedia from A through Z. In the set that I had, it was clearly documented that the earliest "doctors" were indeed "witchdoctors". Additionally, the earliest forms of "medicine" were clearly linked with "sorcery". It might interest you to know the following(then again, it very well might not interest you):
"Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts."
(Revelation 9:21)
The word that is translated as "sorceries" is the Greek word "pharmakeia" from which we presently derive such words as "pharmacy" and "pharmacist".
Anyway, that was just some "food for thought". Whatever conclusions you personally draw from any of what I've just posted, I'll stick with "Divine healing" and "deliverance" over cutting someone open and ripping out part of their body and pumping them full of pills(while you deplete their finances...remember, the "caduceus" was directly linked to THEFT) any day. Have a good one.
That was a very interesting historical information of the medical symbol Caduceus.
Its amazing how a person's blind belief could be so strong as to reject the practice of modern medicine. Just out of curiosity - Have you or your family never been cured by a doctor?
Last year, my son (who was less than 2 months old at the time) had high fever. We had to hospitalize him and he was under observation for 3 days. The doctors diagnosed him as having Urinary tract infection and prescribed anti-biotics. He was cured after a week.
If you were in my situation, would you take your son to a doctor?
QUOTE
Anyway, that was just some "food for thought". Whatever conclusions you personally draw from any of what I've just posted, I'll stick with "Divine healing" and "deliverance" over cutting someone open and ripping out part of their body and pumping them full of pills(while you deplete their finances...remember, the "caduceus" was directly linked to THEFT) any day. Have a good one.
Its amazing how a person's blind belief could be so strong as to reject the practice of modern medicine. Just out of curiosity - Have you or your family never been cured by a doctor?
Last year, my son (who was less than 2 months old at the time) had high fever. We had to hospitalize him and he was under observation for 3 days. The doctors diagnosed him as having Urinary tract infection and prescribed anti-biotics. He was cured after a week.
If you were in my situation, would you take your son to a doctor?
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