Hello.
i'd like to ask, what is dream, does it have any connection with reality? do they come true, or lets say, indicate something about to happen, ?
QUOTE (allen.92101+Jun 25 2012, 02:44 PM)
Hello.
i'd like to ask, what is dream, does it have any connection with reality? do they come true, or lets say, indicate something about to happen, ?
Sometimes they do come true. I had a nightmare of surviving a train crash on Saturday night and then the next Tuesday night I survived a level crossing crash. Just like in my dream. That was a premonition. Miraculous escape and written up in the newspaper.
i'd like to ask, what is dream, does it have any connection with reality? do they come true, or lets say, indicate something about to happen, ?
Sometimes they do come true. I had a nightmare of surviving a train crash on Saturday night and then the next Tuesday night I survived a level crossing crash. Just like in my dream. That was a premonition. Miraculous escape and written up in the newspaper.
doubled up sorry
QUOTE (Robittybob1+Jun 25 2012, 06:30 PM)
Sometimes they do come true. I had a nightmare of surviving a train crash on Saturday night and then the next Tuesday night I survived a level crossing crash. Just like in my dream. That was a premonition. Miraculous escape and written up in the newspaper.
Cue Final Destination scenario.
Cue Final Destination scenario.
I think our brains in dream state see what is coming . Like watching a fly ball when you are an out fielder in the game of baseball . There was tests done on fighter pilots and military claim that precognition was a real thing. That fighter pilots anticipated the direction there prey would turn in advance , so as to hit there target . A lot like kids can do in video games as they learn the game . They succeed by there anticipation better than mere statistics allow.
So the fighter pilot experiment was in controlled experiments down to the seconds and they determined that human brain sees the future . It was a small amount of time. Seconds on a clock or even less than seconds .
So I think the further into the future , but it becomes more distorted as the precognition reaches out father into the future . More dream state, the more your mind reaches out.
How many of us in the 70s had a dream of planes crashing into tall buildings , or even the 60s . I did and as a child of 6 to 12 intermittent they materialized as dreams .
I was astounded when 9/11 happened . The dream was extremely similar . Not accurate by any means. Yet as a child the concept was clear . Jet Air-liners crash into a building . Scary yes and the call for my mother was extreme as a child .
I am betting it was a common dream and not just isolation of my own mind . See you can dismiss it as coincident easy enough for in the dream I believed it to be L.A. I was also walking on the street as the jets flew by over head and the concrete jungle didn't allow Me to see much except I did see a Jets hit a tall building .
Now I think that was put in my head by the memes of the day . They appear to unfold like a story . A telegraph and I believe lots of us had that same dream before 9/11 and now most of us not connected by personal loss from the tragedy no longer have a dream any where close in resemblance to what happen on that dreadful day . It was part of the chain of events that leads us here right now.
Now there is a bible quote also eluding to that same future . Coincident you read it and see for your self . The quote is " When the twin Towers fall" It is in a old testament and is associated with future prophesies . Most of that book is .
I am going to google it and see if the book pops up
So the fighter pilot experiment was in controlled experiments down to the seconds and they determined that human brain sees the future . It was a small amount of time. Seconds on a clock or even less than seconds .
So I think the further into the future , but it becomes more distorted as the precognition reaches out father into the future . More dream state, the more your mind reaches out.
How many of us in the 70s had a dream of planes crashing into tall buildings , or even the 60s . I did and as a child of 6 to 12 intermittent they materialized as dreams .
I was astounded when 9/11 happened . The dream was extremely similar . Not accurate by any means. Yet as a child the concept was clear . Jet Air-liners crash into a building . Scary yes and the call for my mother was extreme as a child .
I am betting it was a common dream and not just isolation of my own mind . See you can dismiss it as coincident easy enough for in the dream I believed it to be L.A. I was also walking on the street as the jets flew by over head and the concrete jungle didn't allow Me to see much except I did see a Jets hit a tall building .
Now I think that was put in my head by the memes of the day . They appear to unfold like a story . A telegraph and I believe lots of us had that same dream before 9/11 and now most of us not connected by personal loss from the tragedy no longer have a dream any where close in resemblance to what happen on that dreadful day . It was part of the chain of events that leads us here right now.
Now there is a bible quote also eluding to that same future . Coincident you read it and see for your self . The quote is " When the twin Towers fall" It is in a old testament and is associated with future prophesies . Most of that book is .
I am going to google it and see if the book pops up
Isaiah 30 . Yeah thats it
I read the verse . I never noticed that before . "The Boiling Yokel" . You all in all see the "Boiling Yokel" in those verses ? No wonder I live in cartoon land . Peanut galleries abound.
O.K. Here is one for you . An Atheist blue light special . Mythical Father in the Big Sky?
I like that one . It makes Me think of the song " Meet My maker in Big Sky country "
I gots to google that one now . Make sure the title is right
I read the verse . I never noticed that before . "The Boiling Yokel" . You all in all see the "Boiling Yokel" in those verses ? No wonder I live in cartoon land . Peanut galleries abound.
O.K. Here is one for you . An Atheist blue light special . Mythical Father in the Big Sky?
I like that one . It makes Me think of the song " Meet My maker in Big Sky country "
I gots to google that one now . Make sure the title is right
Chris Whitley " Big Sky Country "
Great song . Be a sport and Post it for Me Rob
Great song . Be a sport and Post it for Me Rob
QUOTE (Mekigal+Jun 25 2012, 09:14 PM)
Chris Whitley " Big Sky Country "
Great song . Be a sport and Post it for Me Rob
Not today I can't.
Great song . Be a sport and Post it for Me Rob
Not today I can't.
yes but doesnt it seem a weee bit wierd of us knowing the future, then present is supposed to have a relation with the future,or how else are we supposed to imagine or know something that has never occured? is there like , any scientific explanatin for that?
You must have an aim in life if you want to make a hit.
QUOTE (odellkewish+Jun 30 2012, 04:00 AM)
You must have an aim in life if you want to make a hit.
There is a difference between dream ambition and REM sleep dreams. One you can control the other you can't.
There is a difference between dream ambition and REM sleep dreams. One you can control the other you can't.
I'll bite, since I've said so before on here in the past.
I've had "premonitions" or "precognitive dreams" before.
I don't know why exactly, and I don't know that there is any pattern, except that the majority of the ones which come true and are far too specific to be coincidence tend to be involving weather disasters.
there are only a few ways to even TRY to explain this, and all of them contradict existing laws of causality, since any way you slice it, "information" from or about the future which is precise and accurate, in a non-coincidental manner, arrives in the present, in an ordered fashion.
Options:
1) Humans have an organ in our brains which somehow detects an unknown particle or wave which travels backwards in time from the future. This does not explain the origin of the particle or wave, nor how the particle or wave could come to contain such precise information, unless a human or some other intelligent being from the future was sending the information back in time.
2) God did it. My favorite and almost certainly true.
3) Everyone who experiences precognitive dreams has some sort of short-term memory dysfunction which causes them to mistake the order in which events occurred. Problem with this is it does not explain precognitive dreams where a third party was told ahead of time about the event before it actually occurred, which happened in the case of Katrina and Rita for me...
I saw in a dream, weeks before it happened, hurricane Rita's course plotted out on a hurricane tracking map which took up my entire field of vision in the dream. Rita's course crossed Katrina's, on the map in my dream, and made landfall at the Texas/Louisiana border, slightly on the Louisiana side in my dream. I told my mother and brother-in-law about this a day and half before the landfall actually occurred.
Remember the tornado outbreak that happened in Mississippi and Alabama?
A few months before that happened, I dreamed the entire thing. I woke up from the dream and was shocked and amazed, but I was also frustrated with the whole situation. I dislike the fact that most of the time, as stated, the precognitive dreams are very bad things, but I was sick of the whole deal and stuff. So I was like "Well, whatever God. If that's you, let it happen," or words like that.
Well, I regret that. I regret my attitude, I regret my words, I regret the event itself, and I even regret dreaming it ahead of time.
Is it my responsibility? How? What could I change? And nobody would believe me anyway, even if I had rock solid proof, nobody would believe it anyway.
I wouldn't believe it if I was them!
I've admitted in the past that I almost never know if it's actually real until it happens, so there is very little functional use for this phenomenon.
Anyway, there's definitely something more to dreams than just your mind sorting memories, skills, or internal thoughts.
I wish everyone else on the planet would experience at least 6 or 7 good, solid precognitive dreams during the next year or so, just so they could see how it feels, and hopefully, it won't be something bad happening either, but I'm not the one who makes that decision.
I've had "premonitions" or "precognitive dreams" before.
I don't know why exactly, and I don't know that there is any pattern, except that the majority of the ones which come true and are far too specific to be coincidence tend to be involving weather disasters.
there are only a few ways to even TRY to explain this, and all of them contradict existing laws of causality, since any way you slice it, "information" from or about the future which is precise and accurate, in a non-coincidental manner, arrives in the present, in an ordered fashion.
Options:
1) Humans have an organ in our brains which somehow detects an unknown particle or wave which travels backwards in time from the future. This does not explain the origin of the particle or wave, nor how the particle or wave could come to contain such precise information, unless a human or some other intelligent being from the future was sending the information back in time.
2) God did it. My favorite and almost certainly true.
3) Everyone who experiences precognitive dreams has some sort of short-term memory dysfunction which causes them to mistake the order in which events occurred. Problem with this is it does not explain precognitive dreams where a third party was told ahead of time about the event before it actually occurred, which happened in the case of Katrina and Rita for me...
I saw in a dream, weeks before it happened, hurricane Rita's course plotted out on a hurricane tracking map which took up my entire field of vision in the dream. Rita's course crossed Katrina's, on the map in my dream, and made landfall at the Texas/Louisiana border, slightly on the Louisiana side in my dream. I told my mother and brother-in-law about this a day and half before the landfall actually occurred.
Remember the tornado outbreak that happened in Mississippi and Alabama?
A few months before that happened, I dreamed the entire thing. I woke up from the dream and was shocked and amazed, but I was also frustrated with the whole situation. I dislike the fact that most of the time, as stated, the precognitive dreams are very bad things, but I was sick of the whole deal and stuff. So I was like "Well, whatever God. If that's you, let it happen," or words like that.
Well, I regret that. I regret my attitude, I regret my words, I regret the event itself, and I even regret dreaming it ahead of time.
Is it my responsibility? How? What could I change? And nobody would believe me anyway, even if I had rock solid proof, nobody would believe it anyway.
I wouldn't believe it if I was them!
I've admitted in the past that I almost never know if it's actually real until it happens, so there is very little functional use for this phenomenon.
Anyway, there's definitely something more to dreams than just your mind sorting memories, skills, or internal thoughts.
I wish everyone else on the planet would experience at least 6 or 7 good, solid precognitive dreams during the next year or so, just so they could see how it feels, and hopefully, it won't be something bad happening either, but I'm not the one who makes that decision.
I know exactly what you mean.
QUOTE (Robittybob1+Jul 3 2012, 11:18 PM)
I know exactly what you mean.
I suspect that more people have had at least several of such experiences than are willing to admit it.
Perhaps they are afraid of rejection.
Perhaps they have rejected the truth of the matter themselves, because they cannot bear to face the reality, the consciousness, which presented itself to them, and both the physical and moral implications thereof.
Perhaps time itself has an opposite, flowing backwards somehow.
But if it is a signal from a mortal being in the future, then who or what could possibly encode such a signal, how would they know our brains could receive it(more importantly,) and why does the importance or significance of these events range from the relatively mundane as in personal relationships or events, to that effect cities and nation-states?
In the case of the disasters, if some mortal, future time cop is trying to warn you of disasters or something like that, then why not encode some sort of proof that the dream is "real," such as encode them in continuous twos or threes, so that at least the first could prove the dream is real, and the second could be prevented, or at least warned or prepared for?
Then again, if you prevented the disaster you would then falsify the dream, so then maybe the dream could only warn you of a "possibility" or a "version" of the future that is so close in terms of mechanics and history to the one you will experience so that human perception can't tell the difference, but different enough not to contradict logic or conservation.
Oh, but it happens.
The skeptics can call you crazy if they like, but the phenomenon most certainly happens.
The probability of presenting things like unknown text, or the contents of an unique, unplanned conversation ahead of time, accurately and precisely, is impossibly small to be an accident or coincidence.
For the record, it does NOT work like Nicolas Cage in "Next". Even if it involves a crisis situation, you do not get multiple tries in multiple versions of the time line to make things work.
You only get one try anyway, and that is, even if you "think" or "know" you should do anything at all...At least I've certainly never experienced a nested timeline or a nested premonition, or even a premonition that gave me actual instructions or a set of choices.
It appears to be just like any other sensation or knowledge, and what you do with it, or don't do wit it, appears to be just the same as well; subject to your own wisdom, folly, or fancy.
I suspect that more people have had at least several of such experiences than are willing to admit it.
Perhaps they are afraid of rejection.
Perhaps they have rejected the truth of the matter themselves, because they cannot bear to face the reality, the consciousness, which presented itself to them, and both the physical and moral implications thereof.
Perhaps time itself has an opposite, flowing backwards somehow.
But if it is a signal from a mortal being in the future, then who or what could possibly encode such a signal, how would they know our brains could receive it(more importantly,) and why does the importance or significance of these events range from the relatively mundane as in personal relationships or events, to that effect cities and nation-states?
In the case of the disasters, if some mortal, future time cop is trying to warn you of disasters or something like that, then why not encode some sort of proof that the dream is "real," such as encode them in continuous twos or threes, so that at least the first could prove the dream is real, and the second could be prevented, or at least warned or prepared for?
Then again, if you prevented the disaster you would then falsify the dream, so then maybe the dream could only warn you of a "possibility" or a "version" of the future that is so close in terms of mechanics and history to the one you will experience so that human perception can't tell the difference, but different enough not to contradict logic or conservation.
Oh, but it happens.
The skeptics can call you crazy if they like, but the phenomenon most certainly happens.
The probability of presenting things like unknown text, or the contents of an unique, unplanned conversation ahead of time, accurately and precisely, is impossibly small to be an accident or coincidence.
For the record, it does NOT work like Nicolas Cage in "Next". Even if it involves a crisis situation, you do not get multiple tries in multiple versions of the time line to make things work.
You only get one try anyway, and that is, even if you "think" or "know" you should do anything at all...At least I've certainly never experienced a nested timeline or a nested premonition, or even a premonition that gave me actual instructions or a set of choices.
It appears to be just like any other sensation or knowledge, and what you do with it, or don't do wit it, appears to be just the same as well; subject to your own wisdom, folly, or fancy.
...Even text ? Some unknown text? Have you experienced that too?
QUOTE (Robittybob1+Jul 4 2012, 05:49 PM)
...Even text ? Some unknown text? Have you experienced that too?
I have received detailed instructions about things I had never even thought about.
I find that very strange.
As far as premonition goes i think the past, present and the future are physicly connected in real time.
The future has infante possibilities. The very nature of the universe. Evolution also reflects the nature of the universe becoming bigger better and more organized.
The only thing that is certain is the past and the present.
Nothing is the why it appears.
I have received detailed instructions about things I had never even thought about.
I find that very strange.
As far as premonition goes i think the past, present and the future are physicly connected in real time.
The future has infante possibilities. The very nature of the universe. Evolution also reflects the nature of the universe becoming bigger better and more organized.
The only thing that is certain is the past and the present.
Nothing is the why it appears.
QUOTE (Quantum_Conundrum+Jul 4 2012, 02:58 AM)
there are only a few ways to even TRY to explain this, and all of them contradict existing laws of causality,
See that is not right.
If there is causality then the future can be determined . Set in stone by the things that cause it .
Bigger you knows the out come and tells the little you in your dreams
My wife had a dream that I made friends with a bunch of people in a tree . It disturbed her quite a bit and she had no idea why or even what the dream meant .
It was easy for me to see as I had just hooked up with some granolas in real life ( Musical connections ) You see how that reflection manifested in her dream / She could see it happening but her despicable feelings for lazy rabid environmental granola types would not let her face the dream for what it was . She could see the future in the dream but her denial would not let her face the meaning of the dream . Me being dependent on her despised group of influence
Perhaps the future that is seen is not really the future but someone's thought about what the future should be.
Example.
Many people say they had dreams about 911.
How do we know that these people didn't pick up on the extremely intense visions of the terrorists that planned the attack.
We are all quite closely realated as a spices and all think much the same.
We could all be connected in ways that are not clearly understood.
Example.
Many people say they had dreams about 911.
How do we know that these people didn't pick up on the extremely intense visions of the terrorists that planned the attack.
We are all quite closely realated as a spices and all think much the same.
We could all be connected in ways that are not clearly understood.
The brain contains personality firmware which define our human propensities and define us as a species. This firmware is genetically based, but is also molded by our conscious interaction with reality.
We have natural instincts but we also have will and choice. The sum of the two is who we become; collective human yet unique. Dreams are designed to help lower the potential within the firmware if the choices are not optimized.
As an analogy, at birth the firmware are like the seeds of a plant. Within that seed are the genetic instructions for a future mature plant species that will go through stages of life and can bare fruit. But like any plant, the final plant will also be dependent on wild card variables in the external environment such as the amount of light, temperature, water, nutrients, pH, mold, bugs, virus, spacing of plants, weeds, etc. The latter is connected to the conscious mind and its individual and collective social choices and pressures. These can also impact the growing firmware seeds as they follow natural instructions.
Like growing a plant, if it is not developing in an optimized way, there are usually signs or indicators we can observe. This is where the dreams come in. Dreams use a language called symbolism, which is different from spoken language. The symbolic language less give us clues like leaf wilt, which tells us how the firmware is not being optimized and suggests corrective measures. But you need to know collective human language of symbols to equate what you see in dreams.
As an analogy if we are growing tomatoes, the symptoms we will see from the plant tells us what the problem is. The plant does not say directly, "I need nitrogen", but rather will say this with yellow leaves, which we interpret.
Premonition is an anticipation of a future situation, which may or may not occur, based on present and past choices. The firmware via dream symbols can also do this. For example, say I over fertilize the plant. In the present, the plants still looks fine, but in a day or two it will show fertilizer shock. Before the full shock appears, the firmware may extrapolate and provide clues like early symptoms of distorted leaves, which one can then extrapolate consciously. We know the plant will be messes up tomorrow even before it happens.
We have natural instincts but we also have will and choice. The sum of the two is who we become; collective human yet unique. Dreams are designed to help lower the potential within the firmware if the choices are not optimized.
As an analogy, at birth the firmware are like the seeds of a plant. Within that seed are the genetic instructions for a future mature plant species that will go through stages of life and can bare fruit. But like any plant, the final plant will also be dependent on wild card variables in the external environment such as the amount of light, temperature, water, nutrients, pH, mold, bugs, virus, spacing of plants, weeds, etc. The latter is connected to the conscious mind and its individual and collective social choices and pressures. These can also impact the growing firmware seeds as they follow natural instructions.
Like growing a plant, if it is not developing in an optimized way, there are usually signs or indicators we can observe. This is where the dreams come in. Dreams use a language called symbolism, which is different from spoken language. The symbolic language less give us clues like leaf wilt, which tells us how the firmware is not being optimized and suggests corrective measures. But you need to know collective human language of symbols to equate what you see in dreams.
As an analogy if we are growing tomatoes, the symptoms we will see from the plant tells us what the problem is. The plant does not say directly, "I need nitrogen", but rather will say this with yellow leaves, which we interpret.
Premonition is an anticipation of a future situation, which may or may not occur, based on present and past choices. The firmware via dream symbols can also do this. For example, say I over fertilize the plant. In the present, the plants still looks fine, but in a day or two it will show fertilizer shock. Before the full shock appears, the firmware may extrapolate and provide clues like early symptoms of distorted leaves, which one can then extrapolate consciously. We know the plant will be messes up tomorrow even before it happens.
QUOTE (Whitewolf4869+Jul 11 2012, 11:45 PM)
We could all be connected in ways that are not clearly understood.
we are . Whad I been saying . There is a hidden language . It is like a domino thing . Zipidy do da zip-pity day.
It has no feeling for human life either . Hey I was just joking about the ? Better not tell you
Dreams use a language called symbolism. Symbolism is a different language than normal spoken language like English, French, etc.
As a way to the contrast symbols and normal language, consider the statue of liberty. This is a large statue that is found in New York City. As a symbol is represents the concept of liberty.
Often in a dream by a male any female that appears is essentially the same symbol regardless of who she is. She would be called the anima and represents the female side of the male.
The late psychologist Carl Jung found that dream symbolism are collective and are essentially the same for all, regardless of culture. If you know collective human symbolism, you can interpret any dream regardless of culture, language or even time in history.
This commonality of symbolism is because the genetic based personality firmware, which defines human nature (as a species) is common to all humans. We differ by the choices of the conscious mind which will use a specific cultural language. Each culture may have their own archetypal female in dreams but she in all her forms is the same symbol for all.
It is sort of like medicine. You can operate on any human patient regardless of language or political orientation and know where the organs are since this too is collective human.
What often happens is the conscious mind tries to interpret dreams literally using their specific cultural language and personal experiences and the dream makes no sense. But that is true of anything. You don't use astronomy to investigate the cell. You need specific tools. Collective human symbolism is the tool needed to investigate dreams.
As a way to the contrast symbols and normal language, consider the statue of liberty. This is a large statue that is found in New York City. As a symbol is represents the concept of liberty.
Often in a dream by a male any female that appears is essentially the same symbol regardless of who she is. She would be called the anima and represents the female side of the male.
The late psychologist Carl Jung found that dream symbolism are collective and are essentially the same for all, regardless of culture. If you know collective human symbolism, you can interpret any dream regardless of culture, language or even time in history.
This commonality of symbolism is because the genetic based personality firmware, which defines human nature (as a species) is common to all humans. We differ by the choices of the conscious mind which will use a specific cultural language. Each culture may have their own archetypal female in dreams but she in all her forms is the same symbol for all.
It is sort of like medicine. You can operate on any human patient regardless of language or political orientation and know where the organs are since this too is collective human.
What often happens is the conscious mind tries to interpret dreams literally using their specific cultural language and personal experiences and the dream makes no sense. But that is true of anything. You don't use astronomy to investigate the cell. You need specific tools. Collective human symbolism is the tool needed to investigate dreams.
i will buy that. Totally . Symbolic language . It is the leading edge of interaction as far as I can tell . The cutting edge of future thought .
That moment when you discover something is kin . Even though it may have been discovered before it is new to the subject ( the personal human ) . That is the cutting edge I am talking about . The moment of realization . That is akin to the language of the killing floor . Dispelled past symbols, replaced by the new discovery symbols. The old symbols die .
Now you can get a feel for the unraveling of time where all are in a different state of past present future.
If you think of it as a ship. The human race being a ship for example . I call it circles of influence. So now we label the human race as a governor body of influence . One entity . A ship is good symbolism because of the way it encompasses the entire human race. This you can see by example the phrase " All in the same boat "
Anyway you all would not believe how developed the language is . How we all speak the language just by being in the same boat . The same circle .
Now I would like you to consider the fracturing into smaller groups . Conflict and harmony of the language .
Theses is the animal I call the information wars of our times . Fractured circles of influence battling for viability in an ever diminishing world of viability .
Consider this . Peoples work . Is your business a real business ?
Lets say your business is based on superstition and the cutting edge dispels the myth of your business you use to support your circle of influence. You see where the war aspect of it all comes into play .
How denial could play a roll when you are dependent on the business .
How does this pertain to symbolism . By the circles of influence or group discussion flow.
Got to go Later
That moment when you discover something is kin . Even though it may have been discovered before it is new to the subject ( the personal human ) . That is the cutting edge I am talking about . The moment of realization . That is akin to the language of the killing floor . Dispelled past symbols, replaced by the new discovery symbols. The old symbols die .
Now you can get a feel for the unraveling of time where all are in a different state of past present future.
If you think of it as a ship. The human race being a ship for example . I call it circles of influence. So now we label the human race as a governor body of influence . One entity . A ship is good symbolism because of the way it encompasses the entire human race. This you can see by example the phrase " All in the same boat "
Anyway you all would not believe how developed the language is . How we all speak the language just by being in the same boat . The same circle .
Now I would like you to consider the fracturing into smaller groups . Conflict and harmony of the language .
Theses is the animal I call the information wars of our times . Fractured circles of influence battling for viability in an ever diminishing world of viability .
Consider this . Peoples work . Is your business a real business ?
Lets say your business is based on superstition and the cutting edge dispels the myth of your business you use to support your circle of influence. You see where the war aspect of it all comes into play .
How denial could play a roll when you are dependent on the business .
How does this pertain to symbolism . By the circles of influence or group discussion flow.
Got to go Later
Dreams are interesting in that they lie outside the current range of the scientific method. For example, if I had a dream there is no way to verify all the details I will see in my dream. There are no such scientific tools that would allow an outside observer to verify what I say. An observer can tell I am dreaming, but beyond that I cannot prove what i see, even though I see it. One would have to take it on faith, which is not part of science.
At the same time, the scientific method needs repeatable experiments that others can run. But dreams rarely repeat in the same details. Therefore dream details are not verifiable and not repeatable. Although dreams are a phenomena of nature, they are not covered under the existing scientific method. Dreams are more common than a decaying proton yet only the more rare is subject to science in terms of allowable speculations and models.
The scientific method is designed to be done in the third person, where we all can stand outside the phenomena in question and observe. We all have eyes so we can all observe and verify. But with dreams, science would need to be done in the first person since the phenomena, in all its details, can only be witnessed from inside the brain. The scientist would have to become both the experiment and the scientist at the same time, instead of just a scientist detached from the experiment. This is the only way to see all the details so the explanation is complete.
The scientific method breaks down when it comes to the common phenomena of dreams and would need to add an addendum, to be able to explore this frontier. Or as long as there is no addendum, we can only assume dreams are irrational and not verifiable in any detail in a scientific way.
A good analogy is a ship full of scientists exploring the ocean floor, but none wish to go down to the bottom to look in person. Instead they all need to stand on the surface and pull a few things up from the deep, and then speculate what is on the bottom from this. The rest of science will call this subjective science since there is a huge detachment from the phenomena in question. You would need to get into the diving bell and look in first person to upgrade this to objective science. But diving is not condone within the charter of the scientific method since the you need to remain separated from the phenomena for verification.
At the same time, the scientific method needs repeatable experiments that others can run. But dreams rarely repeat in the same details. Therefore dream details are not verifiable and not repeatable. Although dreams are a phenomena of nature, they are not covered under the existing scientific method. Dreams are more common than a decaying proton yet only the more rare is subject to science in terms of allowable speculations and models.
The scientific method is designed to be done in the third person, where we all can stand outside the phenomena in question and observe. We all have eyes so we can all observe and verify. But with dreams, science would need to be done in the first person since the phenomena, in all its details, can only be witnessed from inside the brain. The scientist would have to become both the experiment and the scientist at the same time, instead of just a scientist detached from the experiment. This is the only way to see all the details so the explanation is complete.
The scientific method breaks down when it comes to the common phenomena of dreams and would need to add an addendum, to be able to explore this frontier. Or as long as there is no addendum, we can only assume dreams are irrational and not verifiable in any detail in a scientific way.
A good analogy is a ship full of scientists exploring the ocean floor, but none wish to go down to the bottom to look in person. Instead they all need to stand on the surface and pull a few things up from the deep, and then speculate what is on the bottom from this. The rest of science will call this subjective science since there is a huge detachment from the phenomena in question. You would need to get into the diving bell and look in first person to upgrade this to objective science. But diving is not condone within the charter of the scientific method since the you need to remain separated from the phenomena for verification.
thats me Jekyll and Hyde . Good thing I am well natured . Very tempered with fire. My Hyde and Jekyll. They are friends and working real hard on cooperation to a final outcome.
I seen a lot . So I got a lot to call on . Very ugly and the very beautiful . Raw emotions , Sweet emotions
To see from vantage point that I wish you all could . It don't have to be like this . We make it the way it is . It is in the little things we do and then others copy . It moves like a virus .
You know the example . I yawn and a bunch of people yawn and it sets off a chain reaction of yawners .
All interactions play the same roll .
Can we jump time that is the question before Me ? Can I personally trip the wire?
Can you trip the wire ? Can we trip the wire . All pull together.
Anyway . I am telling you there is another communication base separate from our spoken word and that don't explain it cause it incorporates the spoken word also .
It happens really fast and is why it is hard to detect . It is coherent make no mistake . Just as coherent as any form of communication . It is detectable . It happens at the speed of light but response as in any brain can have a delay , but I tell you what from testing call and response of the language a subject can make an instantaneous response.
So here is the guide lines for your personal testing . Whisper at a level that only you consciously can discern. Use a set amount of phrases that would if loud enough for the subject would induce negative and positive responses. Now you can use the set on as many people as you can in public settings as you document the actions of the people you are directing.
This is what you are going to find :
Not only the person directed at but also bystanders will respond and in similar fashion all so . I think it is due to memes. The natural desire to want to join in any given scene. The potential for connection on a social level.
Like mindedness is my conclusion . As the whisper penetrates the subconscious observer the subject has a sensation of like mindedness , which creates a instant bond . This is speaking more to the positive affirmations presented in the sets, even though the negative does induce plenty of response also and if the subject identifies with the negative aspects there is a good chance they are identifying with there own victim status.
These too I have tested :
The revenge factor of identification . Support groups is one way to look at it .
So there is a type of joy when someone else experiences the same events . Or even to the point of it just happening to someone else .
O.K. I better stop . That is a lot to think about for now .
I want you to know I have tested it extensively .
My back ground is Builder and having personal interactions with peoples lives on the inside .
Hunter and observer of animal behavior and applied to the human species .
Plus the language calls out my name in almost every thing. That sounds crazy I know . It is an affliction I have lived with from birth . It is what leads me to the ability to analysis my own species. To determine why language calls my name
It is what lead to my personal discovery of confirmation biasing . Which all humans do .
From that realization you can side step and take a closer look at the beast I am trying to describe.
It is a real language and it is instantaneous. Try my experiment with a set of whispers like i suggested .
Watch out it will blow your mind when you see it . Prepare your mind for evil you never thought existed . Know that what you are seeing you contribute to.
It is not just them . It is you also . Justifying your self is a confirmation bias .
I do it and you do it .
This language is in the dream state . It is the dream masked by consciousness. It is still there working in the day time as it interpreters the days activities and comes close to you in your sleep dream state.
Think about this : You go to sleep with a problem . You wake up with a solution . What happened in-between while your sleeping . Running scenarios as you sleep . In a cartoon world sort of way. As you wake up it becomes real life manageable consciously .
Anyway if you do the experiment prepare your self just encase you see the language unfolding . Get a grip and realize you are not going crazy . Be forgiving of the actions and responses because the subjects don't know there doing it .
My conclusion is it is a basic survival instinct. Totally real raw imagery of the collective human mind . What it is to be human at this time and space .
It will change . As you start to see the language and you learn to speak it it will change on its own. By your own realization others around you will be affected .
One day everyone will be able to identify it as I believe it is an evolutionary process going down. A next step in awareness . From this I believe we will unravel other animal communications with a more complete understanding of not only our communications but of all other species.
I can't believe I am the only one conscious of this language .
Others must be out there and if you are listen close :
Don't let it take you down
Don't misinterpret.
Do the best you can to stay an observer
The emotional aspect of it will give you urges you thought did not exist in you
Stay an observer , take a few deep breaths and do every thing you can to stay calm . It has always been there . Remember that .
It is not body snatchers or aliens in peoples bodies .
It is the instinctual hidden language that has always been there .
Highly developed by evolution over billions of years
I seen a lot . So I got a lot to call on . Very ugly and the very beautiful . Raw emotions , Sweet emotions
To see from vantage point that I wish you all could . It don't have to be like this . We make it the way it is . It is in the little things we do and then others copy . It moves like a virus .
You know the example . I yawn and a bunch of people yawn and it sets off a chain reaction of yawners .
All interactions play the same roll .
Can we jump time that is the question before Me ? Can I personally trip the wire?
Can you trip the wire ? Can we trip the wire . All pull together.
Anyway . I am telling you there is another communication base separate from our spoken word and that don't explain it cause it incorporates the spoken word also .
It happens really fast and is why it is hard to detect . It is coherent make no mistake . Just as coherent as any form of communication . It is detectable . It happens at the speed of light but response as in any brain can have a delay , but I tell you what from testing call and response of the language a subject can make an instantaneous response.
So here is the guide lines for your personal testing . Whisper at a level that only you consciously can discern. Use a set amount of phrases that would if loud enough for the subject would induce negative and positive responses. Now you can use the set on as many people as you can in public settings as you document the actions of the people you are directing.
This is what you are going to find :
Not only the person directed at but also bystanders will respond and in similar fashion all so . I think it is due to memes. The natural desire to want to join in any given scene. The potential for connection on a social level.
Like mindedness is my conclusion . As the whisper penetrates the subconscious observer the subject has a sensation of like mindedness , which creates a instant bond . This is speaking more to the positive affirmations presented in the sets, even though the negative does induce plenty of response also and if the subject identifies with the negative aspects there is a good chance they are identifying with there own victim status.
These too I have tested :
The revenge factor of identification . Support groups is one way to look at it .
So there is a type of joy when someone else experiences the same events . Or even to the point of it just happening to someone else .
O.K. I better stop . That is a lot to think about for now .
I want you to know I have tested it extensively .
My back ground is Builder and having personal interactions with peoples lives on the inside .
Hunter and observer of animal behavior and applied to the human species .
Plus the language calls out my name in almost every thing. That sounds crazy I know . It is an affliction I have lived with from birth . It is what leads me to the ability to analysis my own species. To determine why language calls my name
It is what lead to my personal discovery of confirmation biasing . Which all humans do .
From that realization you can side step and take a closer look at the beast I am trying to describe.
It is a real language and it is instantaneous. Try my experiment with a set of whispers like i suggested .
Watch out it will blow your mind when you see it . Prepare your mind for evil you never thought existed . Know that what you are seeing you contribute to.
It is not just them . It is you also . Justifying your self is a confirmation bias .
I do it and you do it .
This language is in the dream state . It is the dream masked by consciousness. It is still there working in the day time as it interpreters the days activities and comes close to you in your sleep dream state.
Think about this : You go to sleep with a problem . You wake up with a solution . What happened in-between while your sleeping . Running scenarios as you sleep . In a cartoon world sort of way. As you wake up it becomes real life manageable consciously .
Anyway if you do the experiment prepare your self just encase you see the language unfolding . Get a grip and realize you are not going crazy . Be forgiving of the actions and responses because the subjects don't know there doing it .
My conclusion is it is a basic survival instinct. Totally real raw imagery of the collective human mind . What it is to be human at this time and space .
It will change . As you start to see the language and you learn to speak it it will change on its own. By your own realization others around you will be affected .
One day everyone will be able to identify it as I believe it is an evolutionary process going down. A next step in awareness . From this I believe we will unravel other animal communications with a more complete understanding of not only our communications but of all other species.
I can't believe I am the only one conscious of this language .
Others must be out there and if you are listen close :
Don't let it take you down
Don't misinterpret.
Do the best you can to stay an observer
The emotional aspect of it will give you urges you thought did not exist in you
Stay an observer , take a few deep breaths and do every thing you can to stay calm . It has always been there . Remember that .
It is not body snatchers or aliens in peoples bodies .
It is the instinctual hidden language that has always been there .
Highly developed by evolution over billions of years
Say you had to communicate without words, i.e., written or spoken language, would this be possible? The answer is yes. One way would look like charades. In fact, you can communicate with charades even between people of different languages who do not understand each other's spoken language.
If I wanted to communicate the idea that the dog ran down the hill all languages would come up with almost identical charades. This charade language would still touch upon our spoken language, in each person's mind, since we would think in terms of the words, but each in our own language.
The language of the unconscious mind and dreams is loosely analogous to a primal form of charades but it uses a collective human language called symbols. The symbol ic charades are universal.
If I wanted to communicate the idea that the dog ran down the hill all languages would come up with almost identical charades. This charade language would still touch upon our spoken language, in each person's mind, since we would think in terms of the words, but each in our own language.
The language of the unconscious mind and dreams is loosely analogous to a primal form of charades but it uses a collective human language called symbols. The symbol ic charades are universal.
QUOTE (Robittybob1+Jul 4 2012, 12:49 PM)
...Even text ? Some unknown text? Have you experienced that too?
Most definitely.
IN the dream the text was spoken aloud. In reality, the next day I met a person who was carrying a piece of paper, which I had never seen or heard of, with that exact same text in addition to other events which played out as in the dream a few hours later.
This was not concealed by me, as I told several people about it later on christian web sites, and even told a pastor/councilor at church, and the pastor didn't believe it either. He hypocritically proclaimed, "God doesn't speak to people in dreams any more."
I haven't had any premonitions lately, but I did have a dream last night and this morning.
It was related to the thing with Joe Paterno and Jerry Sandusky in a way, as in child or teen sex abuse.
In the dream I was a witness to an adult woman giving a teenage boy a blow job at a school campus, and it was later spoken to me that it was a "common thing".
Whether male on male, female on female, male on female, female on male; Jerry Sandusky is just the one that got caught.
Most definitely.
IN the dream the text was spoken aloud. In reality, the next day I met a person who was carrying a piece of paper, which I had never seen or heard of, with that exact same text in addition to other events which played out as in the dream a few hours later.
This was not concealed by me, as I told several people about it later on christian web sites, and even told a pastor/councilor at church, and the pastor didn't believe it either. He hypocritically proclaimed, "God doesn't speak to people in dreams any more."
I haven't had any premonitions lately, but I did have a dream last night and this morning.
It was related to the thing with Joe Paterno and Jerry Sandusky in a way, as in child or teen sex abuse.
In the dream I was a witness to an adult woman giving a teenage boy a blow job at a school campus, and it was later spoken to me that it was a "common thing".
Whether male on male, female on female, male on female, female on male; Jerry Sandusky is just the one that got caught.
When you interpret dreams, all the dream symbols should be viewed as being parts of you, i.e., different parts of the conscious and unconscious mind. This is so because the unconscious firmware which controls the dream scape project into the environment.
As a way to understand projection, picture wearing a hat with a built in movie projector that shines forward. As you look at the world, you will see the world, plus the movie overlay. If the projector simply projected gray light your world would appear gray to you.
If you were unconscious that you were wearing the movie projector hat, the composite image is what you will assume is reality. It is half conscious reality and half unconscious projection. The world is really not gray but will appear so if you are unconscious of the movie. Depression can project gray.
The symbols in your dreams contain the firmware movie overlay projection and will form composites with things you see in reality. The symbols in dreams represent a composite and therefore contain parts of you blended with things you assume are outside of you.
A simple experiment one could perform to observe this projection overlay effect in the first person, instead of a third person account, is as follows:
Have someone drop you off in the woods, alone, late at night, without any light or flashlight. What often happens is the imagination will become active and begin to project fears into the night; lions and tigers and bears, Oh My!, Then the shadow near the bush, or the sudden sound in the brush, becomes a wild animal that is not really there, but feels like it is there, etc.,
You might even feel yourself reacting to the imagination/projection like it is real. Your heart may beat faster and you may even start to run. The dark external environment will filter out your sensory systems as a control. You should be able to differentiate the projector.
If that imaginary animal of your experimental projection appears in a dream the following night, he is all projection and represents part of you but used the bush as a screen so it could become conscious.
As a way to understand projection, picture wearing a hat with a built in movie projector that shines forward. As you look at the world, you will see the world, plus the movie overlay. If the projector simply projected gray light your world would appear gray to you.
If you were unconscious that you were wearing the movie projector hat, the composite image is what you will assume is reality. It is half conscious reality and half unconscious projection. The world is really not gray but will appear so if you are unconscious of the movie. Depression can project gray.
The symbols in your dreams contain the firmware movie overlay projection and will form composites with things you see in reality. The symbols in dreams represent a composite and therefore contain parts of you blended with things you assume are outside of you.
A simple experiment one could perform to observe this projection overlay effect in the first person, instead of a third person account, is as follows:
Have someone drop you off in the woods, alone, late at night, without any light or flashlight. What often happens is the imagination will become active and begin to project fears into the night; lions and tigers and bears, Oh My!, Then the shadow near the bush, or the sudden sound in the brush, becomes a wild animal that is not really there, but feels like it is there, etc.,
You might even feel yourself reacting to the imagination/projection like it is real. Your heart may beat faster and you may even start to run. The dark external environment will filter out your sensory systems as a control. You should be able to differentiate the projector.
If that imaginary animal of your experimental projection appears in a dream the following night, he is all projection and represents part of you but used the bush as a screen so it could become conscious.
I was just reading The Odyssey (Penguin) and came upon the following.
'Dreams, sir' said the cautious Penelope, 'are awkward and confusing things: not all that people see in them comes true. For there are two gates through which these insubstantial visions reach us; one is of horn and the other of ivory. Those that come through the ivory gate cheat us with empty promises that never see fulfilment; while those that issue from the gate of burnished horn inform the dreamer what will really happen.'
Lucid dreams are interesting i.e. becoming aware that you are in a dream during the dream.
'Dreams, sir' said the cautious Penelope, 'are awkward and confusing things: not all that people see in them comes true. For there are two gates through which these insubstantial visions reach us; one is of horn and the other of ivory. Those that come through the ivory gate cheat us with empty promises that never see fulfilment; while those that issue from the gate of burnished horn inform the dreamer what will really happen.'
Lucid dreams are interesting i.e. becoming aware that you are in a dream during the dream.
QUOTE
QUOTE=selva,Jul 27 2012, 11:00 AM]Dreams are successions of images, ideas, emotions, and sensations that occur involuntarily in the mind during certain stages of sleep.
What that means is dreams are a natural phenomena that exists in reality, apart from our conscious will, and therefore are subject to investigation. Dreams are unique in that although they are a natural phenomena, they are naturally generated by the same brain a scientist uses to observe phenomena.
The proper approach for investigating dreams, is not from the outside in the third person, or else their own internal generator may add subjective projection to the third person observations. The result is currently considered subjective science since you will not be able to differentiate the phenomena precisely.
Let me give an analogous example. Many people suffer from back pain. There are also many people who like to eat pain killers for the buzz, and can use back pain as a means to this end. From the third person, it is not always easy to tell one from the other. But because recreational use and real pain are both common, some doctors restrict everyone out of their own recreational projection, while others give the pain killers to everyone out of pain projection. The science gets contaminated since there is no third person way to filter.
If the doctor had a way, like the Vulcan mind meld, and could directly gain first hand experience within the patient, would this be more accurate? The answer is yes, yet common sense is lacking in dream science. The result is either over inflation in the value of dreams or deflation in the value of dreams.
Like I pointed out previously, the scientific method is not defined in a way that allows investigation of dreams in an objective way, because of the unique situation of the phenomena occupying the same brain as the observer. The result is, there is no way to calibrate the observer using the third person to remove projected bias. One has to use the first person to first minimize bias with direct data. With the mind in calibration then you differentiate the phenomena.
QUOTE (MDT+Jul 29 2012, 02:20 PM)
What that means is dreams are a natural phenomena that exists in reality, apart from our conscious will, and therefore are subject to investigation. Dreams are unique in that although they are a natural phenomena, they are naturally generated by the same brain a scientist uses to observe phenomena.
The proper approach for investigating dreams, is not from the outside in the third person, or else their own internal generator may add subjective projection to the third person observations. The result is currently considered subjective science since you will not be able to differentiate the phenomena precisely.
Let me give an analogous example. Many people suffer from back pain. There are also many people who like to eat pain killers for the buzz, and can use back pain as a means to this end. From the third person, it is not always easy to tell one from the other. But because recreational use and real pain are both common, some doctors restrict everyone out of their own recreational projection, while others give the pain killers to everyone out of pain projection. The science gets contaminated since there is no third person way to filter.
If the doctor had a way, like the Vulcan mind meld, and could directly gain first hand experience within the patient, would this be more accurate? The answer is yes, yet common sense is lacking in dream science. The result is either over inflation in the value of dreams or deflation in the value of dreams.
Like I pointed out previously, the scientific method is not defined in a way that allows investigation of dreams in an objective way, because of the unique situation of the phenomena occupying the same brain as the observer. The result is, there is no way to calibrate the observer using the third person to remove projected bias. One has to use the first person to first minimize bias with direct data. With the mind in calibration then you differentiate the phenomena.
Sounds like your making a lot of assumptions. Dreams are a phenomena that is not well understood similar to the universe in many ways.
All know, or have consciously witnessed ourselves falling into, and out of... an "awoke" condition...from an Alpha wave rhythm condition. The Alpha state is a giddy half-awake place where we may be speaking quite rationally, as I am now, and suddenly we catch ourselves rambling off into alligator purses on the top shelf, but reserve some key space for the the alluvial plains....
That's the crossover to another wavelength that is the first step of letting our mind rest.
The mind slips into and out of this Alpha state, into the deep sleep of Delta waves. This is a "in-and-out" condition, as well, and eventually these "switching in states" initiates a further wave-set called "REM". REM is a loosely contrived in-and-out state as well.
In a REM state, large flowing amounts of "inner lights" called PHOSPHENES flash in our eyes, and make it quite easy for scenes to be fashioned from these flows. A part of the mind which does not get to make "rational decisions and control" during the conscious periods of the "fully awake state", will find this time pleasing, to stretch it's legs and have it's "jolly's" focused.
More to come, if you need it, but now I must walk to the alligator purse and raise the wagon off the beach before the giant TV screened mantis-caterpillar reaches here.....
That's the crossover to another wavelength that is the first step of letting our mind rest.
The mind slips into and out of this Alpha state, into the deep sleep of Delta waves. This is a "in-and-out" condition, as well, and eventually these "switching in states" initiates a further wave-set called "REM". REM is a loosely contrived in-and-out state as well.
In a REM state, large flowing amounts of "inner lights" called PHOSPHENES flash in our eyes, and make it quite easy for scenes to be fashioned from these flows. A part of the mind which does not get to make "rational decisions and control" during the conscious periods of the "fully awake state", will find this time pleasing, to stretch it's legs and have it's "jolly's" focused.
More to come, if you need it, but now I must walk to the alligator purse and raise the wagon off the beach before the giant TV screened mantis-caterpillar reaches here.....
Problem is I'm well aware of all of this, and none of it explains the phenomenon of "precognitive dreaming".
Try this link and video, and go to the 9,00 mark.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9DMiy_DVok
This is something I ran across a few days ago while watching these videos about the Boxing Day Tsunami.
Now these videos focus a lot more on the humanity and family time that was taking place right before and as the disaster hit.
This man is telling the story and making the claim that his Son dreamed seven times about a horrible disaster at the beach, AHEAD of time, and was in tears about it because he didn't understand what it meant, but that he knew something bad was going to happen...and then this happened.
Now you can believe that's a coincidence.
You can believe the guy is just a liar, etc.
You can't deny though, the fact that he's making the claim, knowing that a lot of people might think that's ridiculous.
Now if true, this would be evidence of foreknowledge or divine knowledge in SOME dreams.
Obviously, it would be stronger if they actually had him on camera a few days earlier telling somebody, but the likelihood of that is low, since family members would be unlikely to film their own members in what might be initially perceived as a "disturbed" or "distressed" state.
This is one of the few cases I've ever seen where someone else made a direct claim to have dreamed about a regional or global disaster that later came to pass exactly as dreamed.
I've had several of them myself, so I know how the guy feels. I'm not exactly sure why some of them happen at all.
When you can literally see it in the news in a dream several days ahead of time in some cases, it starts to get through.
Yet even still, I've never come up with a way of proving which ones are "real" and which ones are just dreams until it's too late to matter, except in one case; That was Hurricane Rita. Somehow I just "Knew" in that case because of the part about Katrina.
At any rate, as I said earlier, I do't really care what people think about me. I've discussed this on here several times before and people called me crazy and stuff, but they can't disprove it either.
Now here's the deal. When it happens about weather events, it's like watching the news a day or a week or a month ahead of time, or even a season or more ahead of time. In one case I've literally SEEN the news videos a few months ahead of time in a dream.
It would be nice if it happened to the atheists and agnostics on here a few times.
Maybe then you'd believe in something I know is real, but that "science" can't see or understand.
Try this link and video, and go to the 9,00 mark.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9DMiy_DVok
This is something I ran across a few days ago while watching these videos about the Boxing Day Tsunami.
Now these videos focus a lot more on the humanity and family time that was taking place right before and as the disaster hit.
This man is telling the story and making the claim that his Son dreamed seven times about a horrible disaster at the beach, AHEAD of time, and was in tears about it because he didn't understand what it meant, but that he knew something bad was going to happen...and then this happened.
Now you can believe that's a coincidence.
You can believe the guy is just a liar, etc.
You can't deny though, the fact that he's making the claim, knowing that a lot of people might think that's ridiculous.
Now if true, this would be evidence of foreknowledge or divine knowledge in SOME dreams.
Obviously, it would be stronger if they actually had him on camera a few days earlier telling somebody, but the likelihood of that is low, since family members would be unlikely to film their own members in what might be initially perceived as a "disturbed" or "distressed" state.
This is one of the few cases I've ever seen where someone else made a direct claim to have dreamed about a regional or global disaster that later came to pass exactly as dreamed.
I've had several of them myself, so I know how the guy feels. I'm not exactly sure why some of them happen at all.
When you can literally see it in the news in a dream several days ahead of time in some cases, it starts to get through.
Yet even still, I've never come up with a way of proving which ones are "real" and which ones are just dreams until it's too late to matter, except in one case; That was Hurricane Rita. Somehow I just "Knew" in that case because of the part about Katrina.
At any rate, as I said earlier, I do't really care what people think about me. I've discussed this on here several times before and people called me crazy and stuff, but they can't disprove it either.
Now here's the deal. When it happens about weather events, it's like watching the news a day or a week or a month ahead of time, or even a season or more ahead of time. In one case I've literally SEEN the news videos a few months ahead of time in a dream.
It would be nice if it happened to the atheists and agnostics on here a few times.
Maybe then you'd believe in something I know is real, but that "science" can't see or understand.
QUOTE
Sounds like your making a lot of assumptions. Dreams are a phenomena that is not well understood similar to the universe in many ways.
Like observing any phenomena in the universe, the more directly you can observe the phenomena the better the data. If we look at something 500 million light years away, we have more freedom to speculate more than if we can touch it. The first person touches the dream, the third person is separated by what appears to be millions of miles, as inferred by misunderstanding.
With dreams the best seat in the house is you being part of an actual dream. One would let the internal phenomena happen while being conscious enough to retain as much detail as possible. This data is then recorded and analyzed the next day. There is nuance that will only be seen in the first person.
This does not explain pre-cognitive dreams, but would at least create a base from which such difficult questions can be inferred.
Where third person did come in handy, was comparing the dreams of a lot of people to see if there were trends. Dreams use a common human language called symbolism. One needs to know how to speak the language.
A good primer book is, The Undiscovered Self, by Carl Jung. It is an introduction the archetypes of the collective unconscious or the personality firmware that will generate the dreams.
To collect evidence of cognitive abilities, one need only keep a dream journal for a period of time. Haven't for decades. You will find it interesting that many of your log entries, when reexamined months later, will not be familiar to you. But it's in your handwriting.
Give the log to an outside party to store, so there is no question of evidence tampering, if some real incident should match a dream event, then the log becomes valid experimental evidence of an anomaly worth further follow-up.
We could keep brief logs here in this thread.
Date
R =Real Time of dream occurrence (Exp: approx. 5am)
P=Perceived time (in dream-Exp:seemingly afternoon)
(N,S,E,W)=Perceived direction dreamer standing while observing log entry details
Followed by log entry details, condensed into a paragraph. Or longer if needed.
Give the log to an outside party to store, so there is no question of evidence tampering, if some real incident should match a dream event, then the log becomes valid experimental evidence of an anomaly worth further follow-up.
We could keep brief logs here in this thread.
Date
R =Real Time of dream occurrence (Exp: approx. 5am)
P=Perceived time (in dream-Exp:seemingly afternoon)
(N,S,E,W)=Perceived direction dreamer standing while observing log entry details
Followed by log entry details, condensed into a paragraph. Or longer if needed.
QUOTE (keith*+Aug 7 2012, 03:03 AM)
To collect evidence of cognitive abilities, one need only keep a dream journal for a period of time. Haven't for decades. You will find it interesting that many of your log entries, when reexamined months later, will not be familiar to you. But it's in your handwriting.
Give the log to an outside party to store, so there is no question of evidence tampering, if some real incident should match a dream event, then the log becomes valid experimental evidence of an anomaly worth further follow-up.
We could keep brief logs here in this thread.
Date
R =Real Time of dream occurrence (Exp: approx. 5am)
P=Perceived time (in dream-Exp:seemingly afternoon)
(N,S,E,W)=Perceived direction dreamer standing while observing log entry details
Followed by log entry details, condensed into a paragraph. Or longer if needed.
Good idea. A dream diary on the Internet. We did this a couple of years ago and it was interesting. But dreams are at time obscure and not lending to simple analysis.
I dream of flying, and I wake up unsure if I have ever succeeded at flying, but when I stand on my feet I feel as heavy a ever.
What is flight mean? Does it indicate "success"?
Give the log to an outside party to store, so there is no question of evidence tampering, if some real incident should match a dream event, then the log becomes valid experimental evidence of an anomaly worth further follow-up.
We could keep brief logs here in this thread.
Date
R =Real Time of dream occurrence (Exp: approx. 5am)
P=Perceived time (in dream-Exp:seemingly afternoon)
(N,S,E,W)=Perceived direction dreamer standing while observing log entry details
Followed by log entry details, condensed into a paragraph. Or longer if needed.
Good idea. A dream diary on the Internet. We did this a couple of years ago and it was interesting. But dreams are at time obscure and not lending to simple analysis.
I dream of flying, and I wake up unsure if I have ever succeeded at flying, but when I stand on my feet I feel as heavy a ever.
What is flight mean? Does it indicate "success"?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Interpretation_of_Dreams
Freud was the second most influential figure in psychology (B.F. Skinner was first) in the 20th century.
If you haven't encountered a reference to his work somewhere one could assume you're only mildly interested in dreams.
Freud was the second most influential figure in psychology (B.F. Skinner was first) in the 20th century.
If you haven't encountered a reference to his work somewhere one could assume you're only mildly interested in dreams.
Who's going to be the first to put their dream online?
The original reason I decided to research dreams, in the first person, was I had been trying to self actualize during the previous several years. I learned about dreams and other things. This process took many years with the help of psychologists and others, including loving girlfriends, but I became whole.
Once I reached the point of self actualization, I was happy, centered, but was bored. In 20/20 hindsight, I had enjoyed learning about the mind. The journey had always been more fun than the final destination. So I decided to do some unique research and take what I had learned to the next level.
I saw Jung and the collective unconscious as the next level and wanted to experience the archetypes to see if these were real in the first person. I realized you can't depend on third hand data, since even self actualization needed you go into the trenches. You can't self actualize from a lecture, so I assumed you can't know about archetypes only by reading. But was this real or imaginary?
One dream I still remember, occurred after I had been collecting and analyzing dreams for over a year. In the dream there was a large horizontal ring of light and fire that was rotating to the counter clock wise. I watched and saw a man and women jumped into the ring. They merged and became absorbed. I then heard a dark booming sinister voice say, "when you have entered the ring it shall be complete."
I became terrorized in my dream, because I did not feel good about having to merge; psychosis. I woke myself out of the dream, like climbing out of a deep well, only to see the walls of my bedroom breathing and the sinister presence about to enter my bedroom.
One part of me was trying to remain objective and observe this unique dynamic data. But another side of me was in shear terror. My animal side was afraid but another science side of me was calm. I pictured a man on a horse, with his horse in panic, bucking to run, while the rider is trying keep the horse calm so he could assess the situation and figure out what to do.
Reason alone would not calm my terrorize animal side (horse) since the induction was irrational. Rather I discovered I could calm my animal side with prayers I learned from my childhood. My horse settled and I was able to calmly observe. At that point I realized I had a sword (reason) and shield (prayer) and was no longer afraid allowing me to go even deeper to dynamics inductions.
Some people like to jump from planes or bungee jump. But for me my courage was dealing with the unconscious mind. That was fun for me, allowing me to get some very unique data sequences.
My dream outlined a unconscious process that would spontaneously occur, a few months in the future. It could a called a thousand fold distillation. The inner self (ring) would generate a subjective scenario of light and fire (intuition and instinct). I would sense and feel something becoming conscious. The male and female merging meant I needed to merge in thought (male) and emotion (female); let it happen and follow the lead. I also needed to let my ego merge until it kicks in. Then I needed to separate from the induction and analyze it. If I translated it right I would get a dose of endorphins. But within hours or minutes it would begin again. This lasted over six months with hundreds of scenarios with some having as many as seven archetypes active at the same time. It was exhausting, but I finally got spit me out of the process back on my feet.
After that I stopped all my dream and unconscious research because that was too much and I felt I was lucky to have gotten out in one piece. But in retrospect, the ring process was like a spontaneous workout with the symbolic translation and endorphins reward helping to create a communication link. After that my creativity became enhanced due to the communication link.
Once I reached the point of self actualization, I was happy, centered, but was bored. In 20/20 hindsight, I had enjoyed learning about the mind. The journey had always been more fun than the final destination. So I decided to do some unique research and take what I had learned to the next level.
I saw Jung and the collective unconscious as the next level and wanted to experience the archetypes to see if these were real in the first person. I realized you can't depend on third hand data, since even self actualization needed you go into the trenches. You can't self actualize from a lecture, so I assumed you can't know about archetypes only by reading. But was this real or imaginary?
One dream I still remember, occurred after I had been collecting and analyzing dreams for over a year. In the dream there was a large horizontal ring of light and fire that was rotating to the counter clock wise. I watched and saw a man and women jumped into the ring. They merged and became absorbed. I then heard a dark booming sinister voice say, "when you have entered the ring it shall be complete."
I became terrorized in my dream, because I did not feel good about having to merge; psychosis. I woke myself out of the dream, like climbing out of a deep well, only to see the walls of my bedroom breathing and the sinister presence about to enter my bedroom.
One part of me was trying to remain objective and observe this unique dynamic data. But another side of me was in shear terror. My animal side was afraid but another science side of me was calm. I pictured a man on a horse, with his horse in panic, bucking to run, while the rider is trying keep the horse calm so he could assess the situation and figure out what to do.
Reason alone would not calm my terrorize animal side (horse) since the induction was irrational. Rather I discovered I could calm my animal side with prayers I learned from my childhood. My horse settled and I was able to calmly observe. At that point I realized I had a sword (reason) and shield (prayer) and was no longer afraid allowing me to go even deeper to dynamics inductions.
Some people like to jump from planes or bungee jump. But for me my courage was dealing with the unconscious mind. That was fun for me, allowing me to get some very unique data sequences.
My dream outlined a unconscious process that would spontaneously occur, a few months in the future. It could a called a thousand fold distillation. The inner self (ring) would generate a subjective scenario of light and fire (intuition and instinct). I would sense and feel something becoming conscious. The male and female merging meant I needed to merge in thought (male) and emotion (female); let it happen and follow the lead. I also needed to let my ego merge until it kicks in. Then I needed to separate from the induction and analyze it. If I translated it right I would get a dose of endorphins. But within hours or minutes it would begin again. This lasted over six months with hundreds of scenarios with some having as many as seven archetypes active at the same time. It was exhausting, but I finally got spit me out of the process back on my feet.
After that I stopped all my dream and unconscious research because that was too much and I felt I was lucky to have gotten out in one piece. But in retrospect, the ring process was like a spontaneous workout with the symbolic translation and endorphins reward helping to create a communication link. After that my creativity became enhanced due to the communication link.
I find what you have done interesting for sure, but could you explain what you mean in this bit:
"But within hours or minutes it would begin again. This lasted over six months with hundreds of scenarios with some having as many as seven archetypes active at the same time. " are you talking of repetitive dreams?
Are you male or female?
A clue you offered was "with the help of psychologists and others, including loving girlfriends" suggested to me "female", unless you are one very lucky guy!
QUOTE
Then I needed to separate from the induction and analyze it. If I translated it right I would get a dose of endorphins. But within hours or minutes it would begin again. This lasted over six months with hundreds of scenarios with some having as many as seven archetypes active at the same time. It was exhausting, but I finally got spit me out of the process back on my feet.
?"But within hours or minutes it would begin again. This lasted over six months with hundreds of scenarios with some having as many as seven archetypes active at the same time. " are you talking of repetitive dreams?
Are you male or female?
A clue you offered was "with the help of psychologists and others, including loving girlfriends" suggested to me "female", unless you are one very lucky guy!
QUOTE (Quantum_Conundrum+Aug 6 2012, 01:47 PM)
Problem is I'm well aware of all of this, and none of it explains the phenomenon of "precognitive dreaming".
Try this link and video, and go to the 9,00 mark.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9DMiy_DVok
This is something I ran across a few days ago while watching these videos about the Boxing Day Tsunami.
Now these videos focus a lot more on the humanity and family time that was taking place right before and as the disaster hit.
This man is telling the story and making the claim that his Son dreamed seven times about a horrible disaster at the beach, AHEAD of time, and was in tears about it because he didn't understand what it meant, but that he knew something bad was going to happen...and then this happened.
Now you can believe that's a coincidence.
You can believe the guy is just a liar, etc.
You can't deny though, the fact that he's making the claim, knowing that a lot of people might think that's ridiculous.
Now if true, this would be evidence of foreknowledge or divine knowledge in SOME dreams.
Obviously, it would be stronger if they actually had him on camera a few days earlier telling somebody, but the likelihood of that is low, since family members would be unlikely to film their own members in what might be initially perceived as a "disturbed" or "distressed" state.
This is one of the few cases I've ever seen where someone else made a direct claim to have dreamed about a regional or global disaster that later came to pass exactly as dreamed.
I've had several of them myself, so I know how the guy feels. I'm not exactly sure why some of them happen at all.
When you can literally see it in the news in a dream several days ahead of time in some cases, it starts to get through.
Yet even still, I've never come up with a way of proving which ones are "real" and which ones are just dreams until it's too late to matter, except in one case; That was Hurricane Rita. Somehow I just "Knew" in that case because of the part about Katrina.
At any rate, as I said earlier, I do't really care what people think about me. I've discussed this on here several times before and people called me crazy and stuff, but they can't disprove it either.
Now here's the deal. When it happens about weather events, it's like watching the news a day or a week or a month ahead of time, or even a season or more ahead of time. In one case I've literally SEEN the news videos a few months ahead of time in a dream.
It would be nice if it happened to the atheists and agnostics on here a few times.
Maybe then you'd believe in something I know is real, but that "science" can't see or understand.
There is an advanced language . I keep telling you . Your dream state reads the advanced language . It is like some one saying " I will punch you and then he does "
You here him say it . You can tell by his tone and know it is a real possibility but when the fist hits your face you act all surprised.
I thought the air force already proved precognition was real by doing testing on fighter pilot responses in war time simulations . That there decision to act in a direction came before the actual event happened . That there accuracy was more than chance can predict . Was that a real test ? Does anybody know ? I read it in the National News section of the Missoulian news paper a few years back .
Try this link and video, and go to the 9,00 mark.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9DMiy_DVok
This is something I ran across a few days ago while watching these videos about the Boxing Day Tsunami.
Now these videos focus a lot more on the humanity and family time that was taking place right before and as the disaster hit.
This man is telling the story and making the claim that his Son dreamed seven times about a horrible disaster at the beach, AHEAD of time, and was in tears about it because he didn't understand what it meant, but that he knew something bad was going to happen...and then this happened.
Now you can believe that's a coincidence.
You can believe the guy is just a liar, etc.
You can't deny though, the fact that he's making the claim, knowing that a lot of people might think that's ridiculous.
Now if true, this would be evidence of foreknowledge or divine knowledge in SOME dreams.
Obviously, it would be stronger if they actually had him on camera a few days earlier telling somebody, but the likelihood of that is low, since family members would be unlikely to film their own members in what might be initially perceived as a "disturbed" or "distressed" state.
This is one of the few cases I've ever seen where someone else made a direct claim to have dreamed about a regional or global disaster that later came to pass exactly as dreamed.
I've had several of them myself, so I know how the guy feels. I'm not exactly sure why some of them happen at all.
When you can literally see it in the news in a dream several days ahead of time in some cases, it starts to get through.
Yet even still, I've never come up with a way of proving which ones are "real" and which ones are just dreams until it's too late to matter, except in one case; That was Hurricane Rita. Somehow I just "Knew" in that case because of the part about Katrina.
At any rate, as I said earlier, I do't really care what people think about me. I've discussed this on here several times before and people called me crazy and stuff, but they can't disprove it either.
Now here's the deal. When it happens about weather events, it's like watching the news a day or a week or a month ahead of time, or even a season or more ahead of time. In one case I've literally SEEN the news videos a few months ahead of time in a dream.
It would be nice if it happened to the atheists and agnostics on here a few times.
Maybe then you'd believe in something I know is real, but that "science" can't see or understand.
There is an advanced language . I keep telling you . Your dream state reads the advanced language . It is like some one saying " I will punch you and then he does "
You here him say it . You can tell by his tone and know it is a real possibility but when the fist hits your face you act all surprised.
I thought the air force already proved precognition was real by doing testing on fighter pilot responses in war time simulations . That there decision to act in a direction came before the actual event happened . That there accuracy was more than chance can predict . Was that a real test ? Does anybody know ? I read it in the National News section of the Missoulian news paper a few years back .
Darwin's Cathedral . What is that ? Anybody know .
Got to google
Got to google
QUOTE (Mekigal+Aug 8 2012, 12:13 AM)
Darwin's Cathedral . What is that ? Anybody know .
Got to google
Wow that is what I been saying . Yeah ditto on Darwin's Cathedral .
Unbelievable
Got to google
Wow that is what I been saying . Yeah ditto on Darwin's Cathedral .
Unbelievable
Darwin's Cathedral synopsis: Book defines religion in the context of evolution, thereby incorporating it as an evolutionary factor.
To efficiently log dreams for later graphing, we need a few more precise labels in which to categorize dreams by their basic differences.
Exp:
a). Title Labels--
R =Real Time of dream occurrence (Exp: approx. 5am)
P=Perceived time (in dream-Exp:seemingly afternoon)
(N,S,E,W)=Perceived direction dreamer standing while observing log entry details
b ). Log Entry Labels--
Dream Landscape (one-word labels):
--Tidal zone
--Beach
--Mountains by beach
--Valley
--Mountains by valley,
--Desert
--Alpine high mountains
--Sky
--Outer Space
Indoor Dream:
--Bdrm01, Bdrm02...
--Hallway (to)
--Livingroom, Kitchen, Family Room, Bathroom
--Stairs, Tower
City Landscape, City interiors:
--Store (Food, Other)
--Hwy, St., Intersection.
Flying:
--Perceived distance/ height achieved, direction of travel (N,S,E,W)
--One word descriptors of perceived landscape observed
(from one-word list above)
Perceived symbols/glyphs will be described as briefly as possible.
Perceived human interaction/faces/character will be described as briefly as possible.
No dream logged, will represent periods of no dreams remembered, or of no interest to log at that time. Such gaps in logging should be expected.
No old dreams from last year.
To efficiently log dreams for later graphing, we need a few more precise labels in which to categorize dreams by their basic differences.
Exp:
a). Title Labels--
R =Real Time of dream occurrence (Exp: approx. 5am)
P=Perceived time (in dream-Exp:seemingly afternoon)
(N,S,E,W)=Perceived direction dreamer standing while observing log entry details
b ). Log Entry Labels--
Dream Landscape (one-word labels):
--Tidal zone
--Beach
--Mountains by beach
--Valley
--Mountains by valley,
--Desert
--Alpine high mountains
--Sky
--Outer Space
Indoor Dream:
--Bdrm01, Bdrm02...
--Hallway (to)
--Livingroom, Kitchen, Family Room, Bathroom
--Stairs, Tower
City Landscape, City interiors:
--Store (Food, Other)
--Hwy, St., Intersection.
Flying:
--Perceived distance/ height achieved, direction of travel (N,S,E,W)
--One word descriptors of perceived landscape observed
(from one-word list above)
Perceived symbols/glyphs will be described as briefly as possible.
Perceived human interaction/faces/character will be described as briefly as possible.
No dream logged, will represent periods of no dreams remembered, or of no interest to log at that time. Such gaps in logging should be expected.
No old dreams from last year.
Still batshit, eh? 
QUOTE (Guest+Aug 7 2012, 07:45 PM)
Still batshit, eh?
You have me at a disadvantage. But only in your own mind.
You have me at a disadvantage. But only in your own mind.
You miss the point: You are at a disadvantage.
Even here.
Even here.
QUOTE (Guest+Aug 8 2012, 02:51 AM)
You miss the point: You are at a disadvantage.
Even here.
I take it I bested you once, in the field of intellectual prowess, and that you are still smarting from the encounter. Jealousy harbored, is a floundering vessel.
Even here.
I take it I bested you once, in the field of intellectual prowess, and that you are still smarting from the encounter. Jealousy harbored, is a floundering vessel.
Real Time (RT): 4am
Perceived Dream Time (DT): afternoon-early eve
Weather (in dream): overcast
Place: Small city--mainstreet--moving/driving north (N)
My Role: Housing caseworker
Characters: Man (late20/early30) Latino/Italian
Man is indignant and impatiently waiting for a house for him /wife/child(ren).
Other Characters: Women in community room lecture (woman at podium).
Man is left in community room with his family.
I leave, knowing I'm dreaming, and am irate to have spent my dream-time working.
I was never a housing caseworker in wake hours, nor in dreams before.
Perceived Dream Time (DT): afternoon-early eve
Weather (in dream): overcast
Place: Small city--mainstreet--moving/driving north (N)
My Role: Housing caseworker
Characters: Man (late20/early30) Latino/Italian
Man is indignant and impatiently waiting for a house for him /wife/child(ren).
Other Characters: Women in community room lecture (woman at podium).
Man is left in community room with his family.
I leave, knowing I'm dreaming, and am irate to have spent my dream-time working.
I was never a housing caseworker in wake hours, nor in dreams before.
RT: 5am DT:afternoon W:sunny/clouds
Interior House, Large one-room cube 50ft(L)X50ft(W)X50ft(H), supported by center posts, central second story 20ft X 20ft cube white-curtained, surrounded by glass railing...on top of same support posts as outer shell of large room. 50ft window of thick glass or plexiglass/solar glass/tinted is the entire west exposed wall of room.
Wealthy 25ish y.o. man (brown hair, brown eyes) is at upper-floor SW rail corner, face extended over railing, dropping spit toward me (observer) 30 ft below, I am resting on living room cushions, catching spit lobs in glass container. I am exceeding successful at this task.
He reappears downstairs, asking me to be his best friend. I tell him that I am not gay, that I found him a decent enough fellow, and would not mind it at all to be his friend.
We walk to a kitchen area at the NW area of the room, where a woman (black hair, brown eyes, same age as man) just enters the house from a door in that corner. The man looks at me to see (I feel that this is his intent) if I have any excitable interests in this woman. I feign none, as I do not wish to stir any jealous tendencies, yet not wanting to ruin any allure he may have towards her, etc. (I found her not ugly, but not my type--something you wouldn't reveal to your new best wealthy friend--a best friend of a wealthy man must be tactful at all times...)
END
Interior House, Large one-room cube 50ft(L)X50ft(W)X50ft(H), supported by center posts, central second story 20ft X 20ft cube white-curtained, surrounded by glass railing...on top of same support posts as outer shell of large room. 50ft window of thick glass or plexiglass/solar glass/tinted is the entire west exposed wall of room.
Wealthy 25ish y.o. man (brown hair, brown eyes) is at upper-floor SW rail corner, face extended over railing, dropping spit toward me (observer) 30 ft below, I am resting on living room cushions, catching spit lobs in glass container. I am exceeding successful at this task.
He reappears downstairs, asking me to be his best friend. I tell him that I am not gay, that I found him a decent enough fellow, and would not mind it at all to be his friend.
We walk to a kitchen area at the NW area of the room, where a woman (black hair, brown eyes, same age as man) just enters the house from a door in that corner. The man looks at me to see (I feel that this is his intent) if I have any excitable interests in this woman. I feign none, as I do not wish to stir any jealous tendencies, yet not wanting to ruin any allure he may have towards her, etc. (I found her not ugly, but not my type--something you wouldn't reveal to your new best wealthy friend--a best friend of a wealthy man must be tactful at all times...)
END
QUOTE (keith*+Aug 26 2012, 12:08 PM)
... is at upper-floor SW rail corner...
Correction: SE rail corner
Correction: SE rail corner
QUOTE (keith*+Aug 26 2012, 07:08 PM)
RT: 5am DT:afternoon W:sunny/clouds
Interior House, Large one-room cube 50ft(L)X50ft(W)X50ft(H), supported by center posts, central second story 20ft X 20ft cube white-curtained, surrounded by glass railing...on top of same support posts as outer shell of large room. 50ft window of thick glass or plexiglass/solar glass/tinted is the entire west exposed wall of room.
Wealthy 25ish y.o. man (brown hair, brown eyes) is at upper-floor SW rail corner, face extended over railing, dropping spit toward me (observer) 30 ft below, I am resting on living room cushions, catching spit lobs in glass container. I am exceeding successful at this task.
He reappears downstairs, asking me to be his best friend. I tell him that I am not gay, that I found him a decent enough fellow, and would not mind it at all to be his friend.
We walk to a kitchen area at the NW area of the room, where a woman (black hair, brown eyes, same age as man) just enters the house from a door in that corner. The man looks at me to see (I feel that this is his intent) if I have any excitable interests in this woman. I feign none, as I do not wish to stir any jealous tendencies, yet not wanting to ruin any allure he may have towards her, etc. (I found her not ugly, but not my type--something you wouldn't reveal to your new best wealthy friend--a best friend of a wealthy man must be tactful at all times...)
END
Why worry about the orientation etc. The dream is obviously questioning your motives and sexuality.
Being the best friend of a person who spits on you? Well what is the motive for that?
Interior House, Large one-room cube 50ft(L)X50ft(W)X50ft(H), supported by center posts, central second story 20ft X 20ft cube white-curtained, surrounded by glass railing...on top of same support posts as outer shell of large room. 50ft window of thick glass or plexiglass/solar glass/tinted is the entire west exposed wall of room.
Wealthy 25ish y.o. man (brown hair, brown eyes) is at upper-floor SW rail corner, face extended over railing, dropping spit toward me (observer) 30 ft below, I am resting on living room cushions, catching spit lobs in glass container. I am exceeding successful at this task.
He reappears downstairs, asking me to be his best friend. I tell him that I am not gay, that I found him a decent enough fellow, and would not mind it at all to be his friend.
We walk to a kitchen area at the NW area of the room, where a woman (black hair, brown eyes, same age as man) just enters the house from a door in that corner. The man looks at me to see (I feel that this is his intent) if I have any excitable interests in this woman. I feign none, as I do not wish to stir any jealous tendencies, yet not wanting to ruin any allure he may have towards her, etc. (I found her not ugly, but not my type--something you wouldn't reveal to your new best wealthy friend--a best friend of a wealthy man must be tactful at all times...)
END
Why worry about the orientation etc. The dream is obviously questioning your motives and sexuality.
Being the best friend of a person who spits on you? Well what is the motive for that?
QUOTE (Robittybob1+Aug 26 2012, 02:26 PM)
Why worry about the orientation etc. The dream is obviously questioning your motives and sexuality.
Being the best friend of a person who spits on you? Well what is the motive for that?
Ahh, but it is MY dream, and I am the spitter AND the cup orientator.
It's all about orientation. That is what is obvious.
Additional data:
The first spit drop fell straight down into the cup (cup did not have to be moved)
The second drop needed the cup to be moved 2-3 in (5-7 cm) to the right (North).
The interval between the second and third drop was shorter, and to catch the third drop, the cup had to be moved 2-3 in to the North-East (of the initial drop location).
A fourth drop landed 1 in (2 cm) to the right (N) of the initial drop location.
All drops landed in the cup.
Being the best friend of a person who spits on you? Well what is the motive for that?
Ahh, but it is MY dream, and I am the spitter AND the cup orientator.
It's all about orientation. That is what is obvious.
Additional data:
The first spit drop fell straight down into the cup (cup did not have to be moved)
The second drop needed the cup to be moved 2-3 in (5-7 cm) to the right (North).
The interval between the second and third drop was shorter, and to catch the third drop, the cup had to be moved 2-3 in to the North-East (of the initial drop location).
A fourth drop landed 1 in (2 cm) to the right (N) of the initial drop location.
All drops landed in the cup.
QUOTE (keith*+Aug 26 2012, 09:50 PM)
Ahh, but it is MY dream, and I am the spitter AND the cup orientator.
It's all about orientation. That is what is obvious.
Additional data:
The first spit drop fell straight down into the cup (cup did not have to be moved)
The second drop needed the cup to be moved 2-3 in (5-7 cm) to the right (North).
The interval between the second and third drop was shorter, and to catch the third drop, the cup had to be moved 2-3 in to the North-East (of the initial drop location).
A fourth drop landed 1 in (2 cm) to the right (N) of the initial drop location.
All drops landed in the cup.
You must have an amazing sense of direction. I hardly know where north is while I'm awake let alone while I'm dreaming!
I still can't follow you obsession with directions of the compass. What are you trying to prove?
It's all about orientation. That is what is obvious.
Additional data:
The first spit drop fell straight down into the cup (cup did not have to be moved)
The second drop needed the cup to be moved 2-3 in (5-7 cm) to the right (North).
The interval between the second and third drop was shorter, and to catch the third drop, the cup had to be moved 2-3 in to the North-East (of the initial drop location).
A fourth drop landed 1 in (2 cm) to the right (N) of the initial drop location.
All drops landed in the cup.
You must have an amazing sense of direction. I hardly know where north is while I'm awake let alone while I'm dreaming!
I still can't follow you obsession with directions of the compass. What are you trying to prove?
QUOTE (Robittybob1+Aug 27 2012, 02:41 PM)
You must have an amazing sense of direction. I hardly know where north is while I'm awake let alone while I'm dreaming!
I still can't follow you obsession with directions of the compass. What are you trying to prove?
The only reasoning the original OP required was to log dream details, to have an array of dream event records to compare against real time events to follow...to analyze any coincidences, etc. with those events and the dream details. No detail is significant to record, no detail is too insignificant.
Date/time of dream--Easy data to record.
Perceived weather and time of day in dream--these are harder to determine unless the dream is occurring in an outdoor environ, or a dream situated indoors has windows to the outdoors.
Time passes in dreams, the lights change, the apparent sunshine changes position, etc.
(I should add, in my dream experiences. This is not to infer the conditions have any reality, but that the mind is reconstituting emulations of these conditions).
Where the sun is in the sky when the dream begins, and where it is at the completion of the dream..other familiarities of direction/heading/bearings retrieval. I'm an avid hiker, and some of this is hard to exactly pinpoint or explain. Moss grows on the north side of trees, star formations...a feeling for direction, metal plate in my skull
...whatever.
Prove?
No other reason but thoroughness and memory of detail. Otherwise, this endeavor is a pretty much a flimsy investigation, at best.
Not all dreams will have such details. Sometimes a sunset can be confused for a sunrise, unless it gets immediately darker afterwards....
I still can't follow you obsession with directions of the compass. What are you trying to prove?
The only reasoning the original OP required was to log dream details, to have an array of dream event records to compare against real time events to follow...to analyze any coincidences, etc. with those events and the dream details. No detail is significant to record, no detail is too insignificant.
Date/time of dream--Easy data to record.
Perceived weather and time of day in dream--these are harder to determine unless the dream is occurring in an outdoor environ, or a dream situated indoors has windows to the outdoors.
Time passes in dreams, the lights change, the apparent sunshine changes position, etc.
(I should add, in my dream experiences. This is not to infer the conditions have any reality, but that the mind is reconstituting emulations of these conditions).
Where the sun is in the sky when the dream begins, and where it is at the completion of the dream..other familiarities of direction/heading/bearings retrieval. I'm an avid hiker, and some of this is hard to exactly pinpoint or explain. Moss grows on the north side of trees, star formations...a feeling for direction, metal plate in my skull
...whatever.Prove?
No other reason but thoroughness and memory of detail. Otherwise, this endeavor is a pretty much a flimsy investigation, at best.
Not all dreams will have such details. Sometimes a sunset can be confused for a sunrise, unless it gets immediately darker afterwards....
Well that's two dreams this month for me. No premonitions of the future so far.
interesting > i pretty much know at all times which way is north . The sun tells you plane and clear . There is one place I get all mixed up Crise Pond up Nine Mile Road . Several switch backs and a pour vision of the sun due to tree lines . The last leg the switch back changes like in a figure eight type move as you are coming to the ridge and dropping slightly over the other side . It is a real mind *** for me and I don't like not knowing which way is north . We camped there while building a large log house in the valley below . Gas was at 4 bucks and more per gallon at the time . Right when the economy collapsed and gas went through the roof . It was my inflation proof job that went south because of the log company that was supplying logs that went broke got stimulus money then filled bankruptcy, Then the owner dropped dead .
We did manage to get it built in the end . No thanks to that log out fit . And it was not cash cow because of it also . They sucked all joy out of that one .
So Rob Put your hand out to the direction of the rising son and your other hand out to where it sets . Look straight a head . If your left hand is toward the rising son you are looking pretty much south . If it is your right hand you are looking pretty much north .
Lets not get into swing of a door yet . We will save that for another day
We did manage to get it built in the end . No thanks to that log out fit . And it was not cash cow because of it also . They sucked all joy out of that one .
So Rob Put your hand out to the direction of the rising son and your other hand out to where it sets . Look straight a head . If your left hand is toward the rising son you are looking pretty much south . If it is your right hand you are looking pretty much north .
Lets not get into swing of a door yet . We will save that for another day
What you said is very right except that it is all wrong for me since I'm in the Southern Hemisphere!
QUOTE (Robittybob1+Aug 27 2012, 05:50 PM)
What you said is very right except that it is all wrong for me since I'm in the Southern Hemisphere!
The base (longest arm) of the Southern Cross (Crux) constellation points to the south. There is no southern pole star. It's a large dark area between base star of Crux and the bright eye of the Serpent constellation.
I envy you. The nearest stars to Earth are in your sky every night.
The base (longest arm) of the Southern Cross (Crux) constellation points to the south. There is no southern pole star. It's a large dark area between base star of Crux and the bright eye of the Serpent constellation.
I envy you. The nearest stars to Earth are in your sky every night.
QUOTE (keith*+Aug 28 2012, 01:34 AM)
The base (longest arm) of the Southern Cross (Crux) constellation points to the south. There is no southern pole star. It's a large dark area between base star of Crux and the bright eye of the Serpent constellation.
I envy you. The nearest stars to Earth are in your sky every night.
Ihave no trouble with South at night if the stars are out. It is possible to use the Southern Cross as a clock too! the amout of rotation changes with the season as well as the hour so it is a bit complex to be really useful.
http://www.oneminuteastronomer.com/3322/te...southern-cross/
"Telling Time with the Southern Cross"
"Story: Southern Cross
Page 2 – Orientation and navigation"
http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/southern-cross/2
I envy you. The nearest stars to Earth are in your sky every night.
Ihave no trouble with South at night if the stars are out. It is possible to use the Southern Cross as a clock too! the amout of rotation changes with the season as well as the hour so it is a bit complex to be really useful.
http://www.oneminuteastronomer.com/3322/te...southern-cross/
"Telling Time with the Southern Cross"
"Story: Southern Cross
Page 2 – Orientation and navigation"
http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/southern-cross/2
Dream details are useful if you know how to interpret the details. This is no different from any other science investigation. The natural phenomena in question will output data, which we observe. The more detail you can see the better you can explain the phenomena. But like any scientific investigation, you need at least some background, so you can know how we collectively interpret the data based on one or more accepted orientations.
What we appear to be doing in going into the jungle of the mind and seeing a new animal. We record its movement and habits but don't know to analyze the data to make that observation add up to something useful.
I my experience, dreams symbolism are best interpreted as being parts of your own personality. For example, say your mother appeared in a dream, this symbol is not your mother, per se, but rather how she has been absorbed into your mind, thereby passing on behavior emulation. The brain is dealing with the potentials created by various dynamic data inputs.
There are also personality firmware, which are the active elements of the unconscious that are being programmed. Mother is connected to the firmware called the anima. Once the personal programming is resolved the firmware output differently. They become more collective or will take on the form of strangers often of mythological character.
What we appear to be doing in going into the jungle of the mind and seeing a new animal. We record its movement and habits but don't know to analyze the data to make that observation add up to something useful.
I my experience, dreams symbolism are best interpreted as being parts of your own personality. For example, say your mother appeared in a dream, this symbol is not your mother, per se, but rather how she has been absorbed into your mind, thereby passing on behavior emulation. The brain is dealing with the potentials created by various dynamic data inputs.
There are also personality firmware, which are the active elements of the unconscious that are being programmed. Mother is connected to the firmware called the anima. Once the personal programming is resolved the firmware output differently. They become more collective or will take on the form of strangers often of mythological character.
Real Time (RT): 4am
Perceived Dream Time (DT): afternoon
Weather (in dream): sunny
Place: Islamic Area/(Middle East?)
My Role: Observer
Characters: Man (age: 60s/early70s) Middle Eastern/Arabic/Muslim--Ancient royalty, scholar, official, leader...?
Dark Interior building--Room with Council table in center--Open exit doorway in SE corner--doorway to another room to the west--group of men having meeting in other room.
Observer standing at a speaker's podium (Facing South) in center of room. Table in front of podium (S) has many chairs, but room is empty of people, except observer.
Gazing at piece of paper, trying to make out diagrams and wording.
After some passing of time, a man enters the room from my right (W), from other room
Mild-natured elder gentleman (middle-easterner) dressed in fine robes (dark-greenish?),
with dark-greenish head-piece, dark brown-grey hair/beard.
Observer, uncertain about customs, and concerned about being caught reading the piece of paper starts to put it onto top of (slanted top--light tan wood) podium.
Gentleman seems very calm, intelligent, understanding, says, "It's okay, you can look at anything you like in here...there is more reading material on that under-shelf there, on the podium...the Koran, if you wish to look at that also."
Observer looks at podium shelf where there is a large white manuscript.
Man leaves back to other room.
Observer moves to southern wall chair (facing west) to further attempt reading the words and diagrams/map on aforementioned piece of paper. This moment is too brief to accomplish focusing on any recognizable data. Man re-enters room.
Man is smiling contently as he approaches observer's seated position. Man is carrying an object, and is explaining that the object is a gift. Observer stands from seated position, trying to focus on the gift.
Gift is circular in shape--10-12 inches (30 cm) diameter--and is of two half-circle pieces--Ornate wood handles, each with dark bristle hairs (2-3 in. long) pointing toward the other--
two big combs or brushes pointing at each other, bristle ends touching the other. The brushes are about 1/2 to 3/4 inch (2 cm) thick.
Observer accepts the gift, as the man says, "These (brushes) have another purpose, and are not to be used for cleaning--if you must clean your feet, there is water outside the (exit) door."
--END OF DREAM--
Perceived Dream Time (DT): afternoon
Weather (in dream): sunny
Place: Islamic Area/(Middle East?)
My Role: Observer
Characters: Man (age: 60s/early70s) Middle Eastern/Arabic/Muslim--Ancient royalty, scholar, official, leader...?
Dark Interior building--Room with Council table in center--Open exit doorway in SE corner--doorway to another room to the west--group of men having meeting in other room.
Observer standing at a speaker's podium (Facing South) in center of room. Table in front of podium (S) has many chairs, but room is empty of people, except observer.
Gazing at piece of paper, trying to make out diagrams and wording.
After some passing of time, a man enters the room from my right (W), from other room
Mild-natured elder gentleman (middle-easterner) dressed in fine robes (dark-greenish?),
with dark-greenish head-piece, dark brown-grey hair/beard.
Observer, uncertain about customs, and concerned about being caught reading the piece of paper starts to put it onto top of (slanted top--light tan wood) podium.
Gentleman seems very calm, intelligent, understanding, says, "It's okay, you can look at anything you like in here...there is more reading material on that under-shelf there, on the podium...the Koran, if you wish to look at that also."
Observer looks at podium shelf where there is a large white manuscript.
Man leaves back to other room.
Observer moves to southern wall chair (facing west) to further attempt reading the words and diagrams/map on aforementioned piece of paper. This moment is too brief to accomplish focusing on any recognizable data. Man re-enters room.
Man is smiling contently as he approaches observer's seated position. Man is carrying an object, and is explaining that the object is a gift. Observer stands from seated position, trying to focus on the gift.
Gift is circular in shape--10-12 inches (30 cm) diameter--and is of two half-circle pieces--Ornate wood handles, each with dark bristle hairs (2-3 in. long) pointing toward the other--
two big combs or brushes pointing at each other, bristle ends touching the other. The brushes are about 1/2 to 3/4 inch (2 cm) thick.
Observer accepts the gift, as the man says, "These (brushes) have another purpose, and are not to be used for cleaning--if you must clean your feet, there is water outside the (exit) door."
--END OF DREAM--
I am a bit rusty but let me see if I can analyze some of the dream. The direction west is the direction of the setting sun, leading to night. The men meeting in the western room has a connection to the unconscious mind (night). You enter from an exit in the south-east. The east is morning and south is bright daylight and represent the conscious mind. The exit from the inside might be connected to your dreams, that is brewing unconsciously in the west and will exit into consciousness. You are now inside between the two but still alone not yet able to fully interact (process the data).
The wise old man is an archetype connected to meaning. His green robes is the color of grass, trees and nature. He is connected to natural brain firmware, which processes data for meaning. The firmware has your attention and is communicating.
You are trying to interpret the symbols or writing but are not sure if you are suppose to be. But it is OK.
The circle is one of the symbols of the inner self, which is at the very center of the unconscious mind. The wise old man offers wisdom as a gift to show you how you can reach the inner self.
The gift is not to be used to wash the feet. The feet touch the earth and have a connection to the earthy side or instincts. The gift he offers is not for your instincts but for your intellect. The wise old man is about the mind. There are other archetypes for the instincts. The man tells you if you much wash your instincts, go outside or do this consciously.
The wise old man is an archetype connected to meaning. His green robes is the color of grass, trees and nature. He is connected to natural brain firmware, which processes data for meaning. The firmware has your attention and is communicating.
You are trying to interpret the symbols or writing but are not sure if you are suppose to be. But it is OK.
The circle is one of the symbols of the inner self, which is at the very center of the unconscious mind. The wise old man offers wisdom as a gift to show you how you can reach the inner self.
The gift is not to be used to wash the feet. The feet touch the earth and have a connection to the earthy side or instincts. The gift he offers is not for your instincts but for your intellect. The wise old man is about the mind. There are other archetypes for the instincts. The man tells you if you much wash your instincts, go outside or do this consciously.
QUOTE (Guest+Oct 1 2012, 08:05 AM)
I am a bit rusty but let me see if I can analyze some of the dream. ...The circle is one of the symbols of the inner self...
That was thorough and excellent. I liked that. Thank you for that interpretation.
That was thorough and excellent. I liked that. Thank you for that interpretation.
NOTES-- dream log posted Sept 30th:
In keeping with the intent of the OP, these logs are being kept as a collection to correlate any coincidental events in real-life, with this dream collection. I had hoped to continue this for a year, which would (at this rate of 3 dreams/2 months = 18 dreams per year) be an easily doable task, handling my dreams only.
This simple system of logging seems fine, but with many other individual entries, it would have to entail a more organized filing of log data points.
Simple points as :
09/30, 4am, afternoon/sunny, Middle East/Arabic,
Indoors-Dim, Door Exit SE, Door Int W.
Man (W)
60-70 years old
Arabic/Islamic
Brown-Grey/Beard
Wealthy
Well-dressed
Robe
Head-piece
Green
Other persons (Int W)
Podium (S)
Long table (Farther S)
Paper with writing
Koran (White Leather)
Chair
Gift
Circle
Half-Circle
Brush (3" Bristles)
Will convey the needed data, with commentary of personal, emotional or other interpretation separated in a following post (Limiting to 1 or 2 posts per entry titled DREAM LOG and NOTES) These details seem extraneous, but will make data easier to look up in the Forum's search engine later on.
Conclusion:
Practice correlation attempt:
Indoors (3 entries)
Men (3 entries)
Chairs (3 entries)
Women (2 entries)
Podium (2 entries)
Wealthy (2 entries)
Islamic (1 entry)
First Presidential Debate will be about Economy and Foreign policy. Outcome greatly influenced by Woman, Elderly, and Hispanic viewers.
In keeping with the intent of the OP, these logs are being kept as a collection to correlate any coincidental events in real-life, with this dream collection. I had hoped to continue this for a year, which would (at this rate of 3 dreams/2 months = 18 dreams per year) be an easily doable task, handling my dreams only.
This simple system of logging seems fine, but with many other individual entries, it would have to entail a more organized filing of log data points.
Simple points as :
09/30, 4am, afternoon/sunny, Middle East/Arabic,
Indoors-Dim, Door Exit SE, Door Int W.
Man (W)
60-70 years old
Arabic/Islamic
Brown-Grey/Beard
Wealthy
Well-dressed
Robe
Head-piece
Green
Other persons (Int W)
Podium (S)
Long table (Farther S)
Paper with writing
Koran (White Leather)
Chair
Gift
Circle
Half-Circle
Brush (3" Bristles)
Will convey the needed data, with commentary of personal, emotional or other interpretation separated in a following post (Limiting to 1 or 2 posts per entry titled DREAM LOG and NOTES) These details seem extraneous, but will make data easier to look up in the Forum's search engine later on.
Conclusion:
Practice correlation attempt:
Indoors (3 entries)
Men (3 entries)
Chairs (3 entries)
Women (2 entries)
Podium (2 entries)
Wealthy (2 entries)
Islamic (1 entry)
First Presidential Debate will be about Economy and Foreign policy. Outcome greatly influenced by Woman, Elderly, and Hispanic viewers.
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