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BigDumbWeirdo
QUOTE (Ashibayai+Feb 4 2008, 12:33 AM)
BDW I think you may be a little confused about the terminology of a hallucinogen. They're not saying that it causes hallucinations as you're used to defining them. That is to say that it doesn't cause visual hallucinations, but it does cause some hallucinogenic effects. 

Excerpt from wikipedia article on hallucinogens.

Ok.... I see a lot of usage of the word Hallucinogen to mean anything which "cause subjective changes in perception, thought, emotion and consciousness."
I see it, but I don't agree with it.
From the American Heritage Science Dictionary:
"A drug or chemical that causes a person to have hallucinations. Mescaline, LSD, and psilocybin are hallucinogens."
From the American Heritage Stedman's Medical Dictionary:
"A substance that induces hallucination."
From the Merriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary:
"a substance and especially a drug that induces hallucinations"

And finally, the definition of "hallucinations"
From Dictionary.com (the American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language)
"Perception of visual, auditory, tactile, olfactory, or gustatory experiences without an external stimulus and with a compelling sense of their reality, usually resulting from a mental disorder or as a response to a drug."
From the On-line Medical Dictionary (http://cancerweb.ncl.ac.uk/cgi-bin/omd?query=&action=Home)
"Subjectively experienced sensation in the absence of an actual appropriate stimulus, but which is regarded by the individual as real."


I see the common usage of the word, but I don't see any room for accuracy in that usage. It's incorrect, even if commonly used. Urban legends and common misconceptions arise for a reason, and this is a prime example. So many people who SHOULD know the proper usage of the word use it improperly that the improper meaning becomes better known than the proper meaning.
Regardless of it's use in reports written by MD's or Wikipedia articles, THC doesn't fit the medical and scientific definition of the word "Hallucinogen" because it doesn't directly and typically cause hallucinations. Occasionally, use of the drug is indirectly responsible for the occurrence of hallucinations, but as I've mentioned before, so are many stimuli which could not be called "Hallucinogens" by any stretch of the word, such as: Adrenaline rushes, extreme happiness or frights, sleep deprivation (causes many many more hallucinations than THC,) oasis', and even imagination. Not to mention schizophrenia. Just because it's use occasionally results in hallucinations doesn't make it an hallucinogen.
Ashibayai
I can see how you disagree with it, but I still think that disagreement is stemming from the loose definition of the word hallucinogen. Here I think is a better quote from wikipedia that makes a subtle point.
QUOTE
Unlike other psychoactive drugs, such as stimulants and opioids, the hallucinogens do not merely amplify familiar states of mind, but rather induce experiences that are qualitatively different from those of ordinary consciousness.


I never hallucinated visually when I did smoke, but when I first started the strong effects would make time seem to dilate or sometimes I'd get a sense of synesthesia where things like observed movement would seem to create a sort of music or art. Not at all visual or auditory, but more kinesthetic in nature. It may not be what others define to be a hallucination, but personally I think it definitely qualifies.
BigDumbWeirdo
QUOTE (Ashibayai+Feb 4 2008, 01:21 AM)
I can see how you disagree with it, but I still think that disagreement is stemming from the loose definition of the word hallucinogen. Here I think is a better quote from wikipedia that makes a subtle point.

Naturally. The debate is descending to an argument over semantics, which will never go anywhere. As far as that goes, however, I'd like to point out that if you ask Joe Schmoe on the street what a hallucinogen is, he'd say "something that makes you hallucinate." assuming he was a reasonably intelligent person who'd either heard the word used in context before, or recognized the root word from which it is constructed. Similarly, if you check in a dictionary (including medical and scientific dictionaries, as I quoted in my previous post) you see much the same definition. It is only as you move from the utter layman to the interested amateur and biased professional that you see the word used to mean anything which "cause subjective changes in perception, thought, emotion and consciousness."
That is the reason for my disagreement. By using the word in the context of the last sentence in the previous paragraph, and describing THC as an hallucinogen, you are implying that smoking pot will make you hallucinate. This is simply not true for the vast majority of people. There is a very small chance that you will hallucinate as an indirect result of smoking pot, if you have the right body chemistry to allow for hallucinations caused by the release of endorphins.
And that being said, I'll stop arguing.

QUOTE
sometimes I'd get a sense of synesthesia where things like observed movement would seem to create a sort of music or art. Not at all visual or auditory, but more kinesthetic in nature. It may not be what others define to be a hallucination, but personally I think it definitely qualifies.

That's something I've experienced as well, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it synesthesia. It's more like the endorphins in your brain help you make conscious connections between the senses, and causing visual stimuli to serve as inspiration for auditory expression. It's more like an amplification of the brain processes which already work, and less like the creation of new processes. As an example:
User posted image: <a target='_blank' href='http://www.things4myspace.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/gothic/gothic-54.gif'>User posted image</a>
User posted image: <a target='_blank' href='http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/7051/rabbit31wp6.jpg'>User posted image</a>
If you try to come up with music based on one of these two images, the styles of the music will be dramatically different. Music for the first would likely be very wistful, sorrowful music, heavily layered, possibly with a driving bass line, simple 4x4 drums and lots of synths, loaded with effects. Music for the second would be simple, uptempo and playful, possibly featuring the predominant use of brass and horns, or perhaps maybe a folk/country-themed number with a simple guitar and violin combination.
If you were to do the same thing under the influence of THC, you would probably come to the same conclusions about the music, the difference being the ease with which the process happens. You'd likely start humming something right away.
Now, ten people can try that little exercise, and while they would all naturally come up with different musical phrases to describe each picture, the resemblance between two people's version of the first picture's theme would be far less than the difference between a single person's theme for the first and second picture.

It's just an amplification, not a new process.




I also want to add that I forgot to list tachycardia in my original list of the side effects of marijuana. It's true that it is a common side effect, and I don't know why I forgot to mention it.
tikay
QUOTE (BigDumbWeirdo+Feb 4 2008, 09:36 AM)
Naturally. The debate is descending to an argument over semantics, which will never go anywhere. As far as that goes, however, I'd like to point out that if you ask Joe Schmoe on the street what a hallucinogen is, he'd say "something that makes you hallucinate." assuming he was a reasonably intelligent person who'd either heard the word used in context before, or recognized the root word from which it is constructed. Similarly, if you check in a dictionary (including medical and scientific dictionaries, as I quoted in my previous post) you see much the same definition. It is only as you move from the utter layman to the interested amateur and biased professional that you see the word used to mean anything which "cause subjective changes in perception, thought, emotion and consciousness."
That is the reason for my disagreement. By using the word in the context of the last sentence in the previous paragraph, and describing THC as an hallucinogen, you are implying that smoking pot will make you hallucinate. This is simply not true for the vast majority of people.

I agree there is little chance one is ever going to hallucinate under the influence of marijuana. The choicest highest quality stuff in the world will not give you that effect. I think that the only way it may cause hallucinations is if one is already prone to them, as in mental "illness" or if it releases something like LSD25 into the system, from previous use of that hallucinagin.

I believe that is why I began to hallucinate on marijuana...I had both a schitzoid type illness, AND had taken LSD several times and believe it was stored in my cells... and that use of marijuana, may have helped release the acid into my system again (not sure the latter is entirely possible). I hope that was well outlined in my statement before, but I thought it might bear repeating.

from wikipedia article:

Flashbacks and HPPD
There is a reported possibility of "flashbacks", a psychological phenomenon in which an individual experiences an episode of some of LSD's subjective effects long after the drug has worn off — sometimes weeks, months, or even years afterward. Flashbacks can incorporate both positive and negative aspects of LSD trips. Colloquial usage of the term flashback refers to any experience reminiscent of LSD effects, with the typical connotation that the episodes are of short duration. However, psychiatry recognizes a disorder in which LSD-like effects are persistent and cause clinically significant impairment or distress. This syndrome is called Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder (HPPD), though not truly hallucinogenic, a DSM-IV diagnosis. Several scientific journal articles have described the disorder.[53]

The issues of HPPD and flashbacks are complicated and subtle, with no definitive explanations currently available. Any attempt at explanation must reflect several observations: first, over 70 percent of LSD users claim never to have "flashed back"; second, the phenomenon does appear linked with LSD use, though a causal connection has not been established; and third, a higher proportion of psychiatric patients report flashbacks than "normal" users.[54] Several studies have tried to determine how likely a "normal" user (that is, a user not suffering from known psychiatric conditions) of LSD is to experience flashbacks. The larger studies include Blumenfeld's in 1971[55] and Naditch and Fenwick's in 1977,[56] which arrived at figures of 20% and 28%, respectively. A recent review suggests that HPPD (according to the DSM-IV definition) caused by LSD appears to be rare and affects a distinctly vulnerable subpopulation of users.[57] Differences in the estimated prevalence of flashbacks may partly depend on the multiple meanings of the term and the fact that Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder can only be diagnosed in a person who admits to their health care practitioner that they have used psychotropics.

Debate continues over the nature and causes of chronic flashbacks. Explanations in terms of LSD physically remaining in the body for months or years after consumption have been discounted by experimental evidence.[54] Some say HPPD is a manifestation of post-traumatic stress disorder, not related to the direct action of LSD on brain chemistry, and varies according to the susceptibility of the individual to the disorder. Many emotionally intense experiences can lead to flashbacks when a person is reminded acutely of the original experience. However, not all published case reports of chronic flashbacks appear to describe an anxious hyper-vigilant state reminiscent of post-traumatic stress disorder.[54]

It appers that my hypothesis that LSD remains in the body (stored in cellular structure) are most probably wrong. I'll assume from here on, then, that my flashback hallucinations were from my mental health issues.
tikay
Here is some interesting reading on the CIA and LSD...

MK-ULTRA Project

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKULTRA
BigDumbWeirdo
QUOTE (tikay+Feb 4 2008, 01:02 PM)
Here is some interesting reading on the CIA and LSD...

MK-ULTRA Project

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKULTRA

I'm quite familiar with that project, and I thank you for providing the link to it.
One thing I find curious about project MK-ULTRA and the various sub-projects it encompassed is that conspiracy theorist so rarely use this example of a verified conspiracy theory as evidence that their own theories are not patently false...
In fact, that logic is what let me to set aside beliefs in UFOs (being alien spacecraft,) Bigfoot, the Loch Ness monster, etc, etc and the government cover-ups related to those subjects. It seemed to me then, and it seems so now, that if the apologists and proponents of such theories cannot even use the best available arguments and evidence to support their positions, then what weight could such positions possibly have? If they've overlooked evidence that is so startlingly in their favor (even if coincidentally so) then what are the chances that they've overlooked evidence against their position?

Sorry to change to subject, but I had to mention that.
As far as LSD flashbacks go, I think they're more a form of memory than anything. I've experienced once or twice an episode I would call an "acid flashback," years after the last time I ever touched the stuff, but it was so brief and so low-intensity that it makes more sense to assume that something about my environment triggered a strong memory of a time when I was on acid.
tikay
What I found happening with flashbacks was a new occurrence of the same proportion as those I had experienced on the drug. I was not remembering an event from the past so much as slipping into the same phenomenon....the faces i always saw while on acid...the sights and sounds were reoccurring, not as memory but as a new current event, when I tried to use marijuana. I was seeing faces which I felt were speaking to me either "telepathically" or with an audible sound. A semi-distant voice would tell me things...it was as if I was listening to neighbors speaking loudly a few doors down, which was connected to a face or faces that I saw in for instance clouds, or something as mundane as a floorboard.

Because I did not want to be brought back into the same scenario as those experienced when on lsd I stopped trying to smoke marijuana again. My crowd only used the best sort of marijuana, usually grown organically in Kona, of the highest caliber to be found anywhere in the world. I just simply decided when these flashback sort of moments occurred in real time that I was no longer able to handle weed of any sort without risking relapse into any state of my previous delusions. In other words to put it simply I was not remembering past events, It appears that I was rather trapped within the framework of the same sort of psychosis, happening all over again although the event was different, until I came down.

Those voices were likely to bring about myriad of emotions and actions in me, from ecstatic bouts, to the lowest of lows, including gestures I made while on LSD toward committing suicide. Something that had never been contemplated before taking the acid. Things that happened to me on LSD made Alice in Wonderland appear rather logical. After months of the torment of being out of reality as we know it, I would try to end things in the only way I knew how, by taking myself out of the equation.

The conspiracy theorists are I feel often on the right track, and I agree with many things that they conspire to prove. One sad fact is they do not have skeptical science on their side and they have no way of proving that which seems obvious.
UFO's are showing themselves to people on a regular basis now. And I am pretty sure myself that 9/11 was an inside job, but proving that is hard, especially with the kind of removal of evidence that was instigated with great immediacy upon those tragedies so called ending. They were not only tragedies for those who suffered loss of family members or friends but for a whole nation, because even innocence is hard to prove now on the part of our government and it looks as if one will never know without someone (like a president) saying that it was planned, or some hard evidence in the form of cover up documentation.

Sorry I have gone off topic folks....once again. But trying to answer and explain my position on conspiracy.

Derek1148
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vo7KVR1rMHk
xtrmn8r
Hi All.

Regarding flashbacks and such, when I was going to school and learned about Pavlovs' Dog (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Pavlov) in Psych 101, a girlfriend and I tried an experiment.
We lived a block from a small park with sandbox, slide and a swing. Late at night we would go to the park and smoke while swinging. I get stoned,when I'm on a swing, to this day. biggrin.gif
Sapo
That's funny! I have the illusion that I 'ruined' a person that works for AMD. He was walking his dog, as I was, and hadn't smoked for years. His desires won over his good intentions, and he asked me for a hit. ohmy.gif

I didn't see him for a month or so, then he showed up at the park again to tell me he'd been so scared they'd do a urinalysis that he got a raise! I suppose that's good... smile.gif
tikay
QUOTE (xtrmn8r+Feb 4 2008, 07:42 PM)
Hi All.

Regarding flashbacks and such, when I was going to school and learned about Pavlovs' Dog (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Pavlov) in Psych 101, a girlfriend and I tried an experiment.
We lived a block from a small park with sandbox, slide and a swing. Late at night we would go to the park and smoke while swinging. I get stoned,when I'm on a swing, to this day. biggrin.gif

Oh come on now swings are just stoney...everyone gets a little stoned on a swing. tongue.gif
Sapo
Oh, tikay. I try, so hard, I try. But I can't help it!

OK, so I beat it this time. cool.gif laugh.gif I didn't say what came to mind regarding another thread.

sad.gif
Mr. Robin Parsons
Good thread.

Been a Drunk, and have admitted to having had that other 'stuff' in my bloodstream ~ so... Smells 'Stinky' ~ some of it..... (Insert :sleepy: smilie?)

It is a $38 Billion a YEAR cash crop in the US.

Alcohol most assuredly does more to adulterate the Brain Function of a Human being as to cause them to act in Manners that they ~ Otherwise ~ never would have, than Any amount of Marijuana that you can-could smoke ~ Could do to you.

Voice of experience.

More social Problems from Alcohol than from Marijuana, and about the equivalent in Health damage - over time - in Avowed Users ~ those who consume more than the Daily Recommended Dosage of alcohol per day as it too has health benefits, Red Wine With Resveratrol etc.

Should be legalized as that would STOP the ongoing criminal affects that are occurring in our societies from the marketing of a product that cannot be eliminated from the marketplace.

Legalization equals better control for the prevention of it 'getting into the hands of the Children' as people who would sell it would NOT want to lose that right just for being Caught selling it to children.

Pan Pax

smile.gif
Mr. Robin Parsons
As for 'hallucinations' (I) have experienced drunkenness to the point where (I) could no longer focus on one thing ~ but saw two or three repetitions of the same thing and could not center on them.

Alcohol tends to lower moral self-restrictiveness and tends to increase emotional response intensity while lowering reaction timing and coordination.

Subtly addictive - (I) found - increasing over time and probably harder to break - as a habit - if practiced into older age.

From Friendship's (I) have had since Childhood et al ~ (I) know Lots of People who have successfully quit Marijuana......

As a Child (I) recall asking my parent what 'Pink Elephants' were as (I) had overheard an Adult say they had seen them....

No one should indulge in ANY addiction or addictive practise, but that is too idealistic to expert to occur as reality, so we tend to want to mitigate the outcomes as best as we can.

Would you all Agree the very first pleasurable corporeal feeling that we all seem to get addicted to ~ is sex? from our childhood or teenage years....

Pan Pax

smile.gif
Gehn
QUOTE (Mr. Robin Parsons+Feb 5 2008, 12:31 PM)
Good thread.

Been a Drunk, and have admitted to having had that other 'stuff' in my bloodstream ~ so... Smells 'Stinky' ~ some of it..... (Insert :sleepy: smilie?)

Well now, THAT explains a lot. It's been shown that alcohol prevents neurons from growing as well as killing them - you must have taken quite a bit of the stuff as a child.

- Gehn wink.gif
Mr. Robin Parsons
QUOTE (Gehn+Feb 5 2008, 01:00 PM)
Well now, THAT explains a lot. It's been shown that alcohol prevents neurons from growing as well as killing them - you must have taken quite a bit of the stuff as a child.

- Gehn wink.gif

No - it came later on more-so in my adult years.....although my very first experience was at a very early age ~ as was my very first time getting Drunk...younger than you are now....

BTW (I) By the Grace of God have quit ~ and can - now - imbibe sanely ~ one or two - then stop.....

God's Grace no longer the cravings nor the System to tolerate those quantities.

(I) too had a chest x-ray not long ago (< 4 years ago - to 'clear me' for surgery) and am ~ apparently ~ quite healthy that way too.
Gehn
QUOTE (Mr. Robin Parsons+Feb 5 2008, 06:15 PM)
No - it came later on more-so in my adult years.....although my very first experience was at a very early age ~ as was my very first time getting Drunk...younger than you are now....

BTW (I) By the Grace of God have quit ~ and can - now - imbibe sanely ~ one or two - then stop.....

God's Grace no longer the cravings nor the System to tolerate those quantities.

(I) too had a chest x-ray not long ago (< 4 years ago - to 'clear me' for surgery) and am ~ apparently ~ quite healthy that way too.

Well, good for you laugh.gif !

- Gehn wink.gif
tikay
QUOTE (Sapo+Feb 4 2008, 10:21 PM)
Oh, tikay. I try, so hard, I try. But I can't help it!

OK, so I beat it this time. cool.gif laugh.gif I didn't say what came to mind regarding another thread.

sad.gif

Dearest Sapo! Did you feel a judgment coming from my direction? Poor baby, I just don't like taking over a thread like I sometimes do by answering every ones posts and...well there was nothing wrong with yours! I suppose you feel guilty or something about letting a consenting adult smoke from your doobie? Yes...maybe you do need a spanking! But then again the person was an adult I am thinking so, stop feeling bad.

I hoped you would like my artwerks ~ They were a lot of fun even though controlling the lines on metal is much harder than on paper...etching is more fun for me, somehow.

Mr. Parsons...I have tried many many substances and though alcohol was never a favorite (it was the reefer madness i had) I still understand how one can easily fall victim to anything that helps alleviate inhibitions which all substances/chemicals tend to do once ingested to a certain point. I have also had narcotic habits for a time and they are certainly as bad for the body and as hard to eliminate as alcohol, and as dangerous if not more so. I'd rather not say what I was doing there...you may all take a wild guess and leave it at that.

The odds that we have killed off our brain cells and they won't grow back are no longer sure....we are now discovering that the brain recovers cellular structure, I wonder if you can damage it beyond cellular repair?...but anyway you and I are aging and that means we must constantly work the mind in order it keep it working properly. Avoiding aluminum and other harmful things like lead...so that we may keep the ol' alsheimers at bay...and drugs and alcohol are best avoided too, yes, in quantities I mean...of course...nothing much will kill you in good moderation, well narcotics might, one must be careful. Good to hear you surrendered to the fact you had a problem with the dreaded stuff and got some help. I am happy that you can drink like a gentleman. I was in N/A and A/A for many years...washing my brain of desire for the things that were my downfall.

I wish more people in my circles would decide they have a problem because many do not see it, or the see it and do nothing to change. It isn't easy to stop our bad habits and I salute you.
smile.gif
t.k.

Sapo
Tikay! No, I was a bit ashamed of myself for attacking a troll. I meant that I'm trying to be good, but last night was too much, and I enjoyed the sport again! Briefly. cool.gif
Derek1148
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,269256,00.html
tikay
Great link Derek! I was wondering if I was crazy...thinking it brought out my psychosis... laugh.gif
paul h
Derek1148,
The link you posted said:
British doctors took brain scans of 15 healthy volunteers given small doses of two of the active ingredients of cannabis, as well as a placebo.
One compound, cannabidiol, or CBD, made people more relaxed. But even small doses of another component, tetrahydrocannabinol, or THC, produced temporary psychotic symptoms in people, including hallucinations and paranoid delusions, doctors said.


Why not test the effects of pot by giving the test subjects real pot not some derivatives?
What they did in this test would be like me thinking that I could test the horsepower of a car engine by running it on diesel fuel when it was designed to run on gas.
Mr. Robin Parsons
QUOTE (paul h+Feb 5 2008, 06:10 PM)
Derek1148, The link you posted said: British doctors took brain scans of 15 healthy volunteers given small doses of two of the active ingredients of cannabis, as well as a placebo. One compound, cannabidiol, or CBD, made people more relaxed. But even small doses of another component, tetrahydrocannabinol, or THC, produced temporary psychotic symptoms in people, including hallucinations and paranoid delusions, doctors said. Why not test the effects of pot by giving the test subjects real pot not some derivatives? What they did in this test would be like me thinking that I could test the horsepower of a car engine by running it on diesel fuel when it was designed to run on gas.
Here in Canada you can get a subscription to Government Pot and you can only imagine that they can 'tailor' their plants to contain what they ('governance') think are the most needed 'active ingredients' as opposed to the ones that they believe are 'not as good' or needed (not recognizing that one needs the other to placate the users need for the one that doesn't feel so good ~ all alone) things like making it a more potent Drug for the Creation of the Hunger pangs-cravings you can get from Pot, increase genetically those canabinoids or substances that produce those effects.

Tailoring for bio-genic chemical compounds is done by proper research into the component function.


Pan Pax

smile.gif
Sapo
There is, or was, a marijuana research farm in north Mississippi, courtesy of the University of Mississippi and the DEA. They grow some of the very best in the world. I read a report that said some of the strains are approximately 12.5% THC and related compounds, by weight. They are guarded by troops with fully automatic weapons, of course.

Marinol doesn't give me the munchies, but it does wonders for nausea. As opposed to phenergan, which causes, in me, violent nausea.
Derek1148
QUOTE (paul h+Feb 5 2008, 10:10 PM)
Derek1148,
The link you posted said:
British doctors took brain scans of 15 healthy volunteers given small doses of two of the active ingredients of cannabis, as well as a placebo.
One compound, cannabidiol, or CBD, made people more relaxed. But even small doses of another component, tetrahydrocannabinol, or THC, produced temporary psychotic symptoms in people, including hallucinations and paranoid delusions, doctors said.


Why not test the effects of pot by giving the test subjects real pot not some derivatives?
What they did in this test would be like me thinking that I could test the horsepower of a car engine by running it on diesel fuel when it was designed to run on gas.

Breaking down compounds to determine toxicity and mutagenic effect is common in scientific research. Ultimately the decision to use an illegal narcotic is up to the individual. The consequences that need to be evaluated are both possible criminal prosecution and possible detriment to health.

But information both conclusive and speculative should be considered. When smoking, ingesting, or injecting any substance, knowledge is never a negative thing.

Consider Thalidomide (prescribed and legal pharmaceutical).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide
barakn
QUOTE (Derek1148+Feb 4 2008, 03:55 AM)
http://leda.lycaeum.org/?ID=16606

That's quite interesting. But it may be the exception that proves the rule. Is there any evidence that strychnine use wasn't limited to heroin in the '70s in a few limited markets in Asia and Europe?
Derek1148
QUOTE
That's quite interesting.  But it may be the exception that proves the rule.  Is there any evidence that strychnine use wasn't limited to heroin in the '70s in a few limited markets in Asia and Europe?

Although heroin is sometimes “stepped on” with toxic substances such as strychnine, there certainly are any number of additional reasons to discourage children and young adults from engaging in its usage. Even without strychnine, it is not a vitamin.
paul h
QUOTE (Derek1148+Feb 5 2008, 08:02 PM)
Breaking down compounds to determine toxicity and mutagenic effect is common in scientific research. Ultimately the decision to use an illegal narcotic is up to the individual. The consequences that need to be evaluated are both possible criminal prosecution and possible detriment to health.

But information both conclusive and speculative should be considered. When smoking, ingesting, or injecting any substance, knowledge is never a negative thing.

Consider Thalidomide (prescribed and legal pharmaceutical).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide

Your point is taken.
soundhertz
God there is so much I want to say about all this I can't. A couple of things, though. First, there have been several weed threads already. I suggest finding them and reading; a good one was in the medical news forum. BDW, people who smoke weed and cigs have a lower rate of cancer than cigs alone. The link to the most complete study is in the aforementioned thread if you can find it.

There is so much misinformation here it's mindboggling. THC is characterized as a hallucinogen, but it isn't one in reality. If you want to know what a hallucinogen is, smoke Salvia Divinorum - it's still legal in most states. I've smoked it many times. Smoke it and you won't ever catch yourself saying weed is a hallucinogen again. But make solidly sure you are sitting, with someone who is sober and won't let you get up.
Columbian Gold and Panama Red and Meshmacan, all from the 70's, would get you just as stoned now as AK47 or White Dolphin or Bubbleberry or.....
When the gov't. finally realizes that they can make more money from it's legality than it's illegality it will be legalized.
Your brain will not be a crispy egg from smoking it. Carl's wasn't! Bill's wasn't. Al's wasn't. George's is because of all the coke and religion.
Hot smoke is always bad for your lings. While cancer may not be a major concern, COPD is. Vaporize it. Or simmer it in butter and use the butter. It is preserved by the fat and will last forever in the fridge.
Alaska, Ohio, and Kentucky are some of the most reasonable places to buy/grow it. NORML provides yearly updates on all 50 states.
And anybody who doesn't have real knowledge and has to relegate themselves to googling it and talking out of their ***, providing endless misinfo, please DON'T!
Sorry, but this crap always gets me in a bad mood because I spent time in prison for it, with longer sentence than real criminals that robbed and hurt, whom I had to deal with every day.
Derek1148
First offense Simple Possession (Marijuana) rarely results a prison sentence. However, charges of Possession with Intent to Distribute or Drug Distribution can result in incarceration (in USA).


http://www.druginfo.adf.org.au/article.asp...D_hallucinogens
soundhertz
uhhh...correct dry.gif
Sapo
Well, maybe we should get a beer brewing topic going? Here or there. Somebody mentioned it a while ago, but because of all my 'infirmities', I can't remember which site it was, or whether I actually said it. sad.gif

laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif
soundhertz
My secondary modus operandi is horticulture rolleyes.gif (no I don't do that anymore) but a few years ago I grew hops. It's the closest relative to cannabis, and apparently they will graft...


sorry derek I take comment back. You're a good guy.
xtrmn8r
Hi soundhertz,

QUOTE
When the gov't. finally realizes that they can make more money from it's legality than it's illegality it will be legalized.


I find it hard to believe someone in the US government hasn't considered this. Surely they are not so disconnected from the real world to have overlooked so lucrative an income. I can only assume something else is going on!! ph34r.gif
soundhertz
QUOTE
I find it hard to believe someone in the US government hasn't considered this. Surely they are not so disconnected from the real world to have overlooked so lucrative an income. I can only assume something else is going on!!


Yes, many things, not the least being the gov't workforce to support the prohibition. But turning them all into bureaucrats to manage the legalization complexities has probably not dawned on them yet.
tikay
Why not do it in Sapos Joint? Or at least give it it's own thread in here. Some beer-makers may not come to a thread about marijuana. wink.gif
Derek1148
Edit.
Mr. Robin Parsons
QUOTE (xtrmn8r+Feb 6 2008, 12:07 AM)
Hi soundhertz, I find it hard to believe someone in the US government hasn't considered this. Surely they are not so disconnected from the real world to have overlooked so lucrative an income. I can only assume something else is going on!!
Yes ~ politics.

Here in Canada they have proposed changing the law ~ several times ~ to get re-elected - as, every time the Law is written up to change the status quo, it dies a death on the Floor as they ~ seemingly ~ kept departing to election time ~ just at the right time ~ every-time.

Legalization in Canada would probably re-start what went on during the American Prohibition of Alcohol (Criminal trade ~ cross border) and getting a part of your $38 Billion a year cash crops' circulation of money ~ moved to another country ~ (Exported) is not in American Commercial or Political interests.

The war on drugs sells well to voters who think it will protect their children, even though it would protect them better if it were legalized and controlled like tobacco.

Pan Pax

smile.gif
Derek1148
QUOTE (Mr. Robin Parsons+Feb 6 2008, 12:31 PM)
The war on drugs sells well to voters who think it will protect their children, even though it would protect them better if it were legalized and controlled like tobacco.

Are you speaking solely of marijuana, or all currently illegal narcotics?
Mr. Robin Parsons
QUOTE (Derek1148+Feb 6 2008, 01:03 PM)
Are you speaking solely of marijuana, or all currently illegal narcotics?

Marijuana first, and perhaps the British System that was once presented on "60 Minutes" wherein willing to admit to use, ergo seeking help ~ users ~ could get a government subscription to the Drug (Cocaine was the one mentioned) that was then used as to help abate the criminality of the trade and to help them, the user, to find their own personal route out - or off - of their addiction.

Helped to Stabilize lots of otherwise un-stable people.

Pan Pax

(Good question BTW)

smile.gif
Derek1148
QUOTE (Mr. Robin Parsons+Feb 6 2008, 05:27 PM)
Marijuana first, and perhaps the British System that was once presented on "60 Minutes" wherein willing to admit to use, ergo seeking help ~ users ~ could get a government subscription to the Drug (Cocaine was the one mentioned) that was then used as to help abate the criminality of the trade and to help them, the user, to find their own personal route out - or off - of their addiction.

Helped to Stabilize lots of otherwise un-stable people.

Pan Pax

(Good question BTW)

smile.gif
Mr. Robin Parsons
QUOTE (Derek1148+Feb 6 2008, 01:37 PM)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methadone

So switch one addiction for another??

Why not just legalize ~ by regime ~ that-the original drug - as ones like Cocaine are actually Very Cheap - in-expensive to supply....

Pan Pax

smile.gif
tikay
I am not sure that strong narcotics should ever be legalized...what would one do to control usage? There are so many who would take that as permission to become addicts. Kind of a scary idea. sad.gif
Derek1148
QUOTE (Mr. Robin Parsons+Feb 6 2008, 06:16 PM)
So switch one addiction for another??

Why not just legalize ~ by regime ~ that-the original drug - as ones like Cocaine are actually Very Cheap - in-expensive to supply....

Pan Pax

smile.gif

Legalization will not remove addiction. Just as the end of Prohibition did not remove alcoholism (or the spousal and child abuse that sometimes accompanies alcoholism).
Edward 3
At least if you legalise you get the bad guys ( pushers & organized crime ) out of the loop. Although, come to think of it, who would replace them - the tobacco companies or other like-minded exploitative murderers?
Anyone want to sue me for that comment ??
tikay
Hunh! Replacing the dealer with another like minded killer would really not change things much would it?

The dealers would not be jailed for the selling so it would reduce tax monies that are keeping those dealers of today jailed at a tune of something like 50,000. per person a year. How much money would be saved when the average dealers were not arrested and jailed??? Enough to spend on more and better drugs for the average citizen I guess.

I don't see legalization coming anytime soon... smile.gif
If they were going to end the criminal element connected to drugs they would have to have whole systems for establishing a new world order...(just kidding)
wink.gif
Mr. Robin Parsons
QUOTE (Derek1148+Feb 6 2008, 03:50 PM)
Legalization will not remove addiction. Just as the end of Prohibition did not remove alcoholism (or the spousal and child abuse that sometimes accompanies alcoholism).
Never said it would as ~ Control ~ is the issue - not elimination - as elimination is (So far proved) not achievable by criminalization of the product, but it is easier to get closer to that elimination goal by legalized Control of the product.

It affords educational opportunities to the addicts.

It also affords society the knowledge of the consequences of the usage over time, something we lose now because it is a criminal product and many people will not tell-reveal that they use.

Licensed addicts are waaaay less likely to sell the product to others - as the motivation to that is a loss to themselves ~ first ~ ergo; there is a greater likelihood that the product becomes much more difficult to obtain from an illegal marketplace.

There is also the opportunity to engage in medical testing of-for Licensed addicts as to ensure that the product distribution - to them - is being consumed by them and not re-sold.

This all makes it more difficult for new people to get addicted in the first place.

As for permission to become an addict, never seen anyone fill out the form stating 'Yes (I) want to be or to become a drug addict' so (I) don't see an 'licensing' - permission - going on there, those who do - would see it no matter what anyone else said ~ anyways.

Pan Pax

smile.gif
tikay
Permission as in "hey it's legal so lets not worry about trying it" people don't plan to become addicts...it is a sneaky little devil, addiction. I would think that given the permission insinuated by legalization, many more citizens would become addicted...without planning to.

Addiction is a rough taskmaster. Many cannot handle the stressors, and instead of seeking help just overdose on the drug of choice to end all the madness. The resulting loss of life is no joke, especially for the family members they leave behind. sad.gif
Derek1148
QUOTE (tikay+Feb 6 2008, 09:09 PM)
Permission as in "hey it's legal so lets not worry about trying it" people don't plan to become addicts...it is a sneaky little devil, addiction. I would think that given the permission insinuated by legalization, many more citizens would become addicted...without planning to.

Addiction is a rough taskmaster. Many cannot handle the stressors, and instead of seeking help just overdose on the drug of choice to end all the madness. The resulting loss of life is no joke, especially for the family members they leave behind. sad.gif

There is term called “co-dependency.” Everything and everyone an addict touches, he or she destroys. Wife, children, mother, father, and friends: are all negatively affected by an addict.

http://pl.youtube.com/watch?v=GTZk0bGLRw0
Mr. Robin Parsons
QUOTE (tikay+Feb 6 2008, 05:09 PM)
Permission as in "hey it's legal so lets not worry about trying it" people don't plan to become addicts...it is a sneaky little devil, addiction. I would think that given the permission insinuated by legalization, many more citizens would become addicted...without planning to.

My original premise was of this nature....

QUOTE (Me above+)
willing to admit to use, ergo seeking help ~ users
So (I) was talking about people who had become addicted through the Illegal marketplace first ~ but needed the assistance or help to retrieve themselves from the absorbing that that marketplace enjoins.

Not legalization of Hard Drugs - Heroin - Speed - Crack etc etc. so you can go sign on and try them out, but that You would need prove that you had been a user ~ are an addict ~ already, and admitted to recognizing that you - now - need the help.....

Except for marijuana as it is (A bit like) an equal and opposite of Alcohol.

One sedates you the other stimulates you, respective to above.

Pan Pax

smile.gif
Ashibayai
QUOTE (BigDumbWeirdo+Feb 4 2008, 04:36 PM)
Naturally. The debate is descending to an argument over semantics, which will never go anywhere. As far as that goes, however, I'd like to point out that if you ask Joe Schmoe on the street what a hallucinogen is, he'd say "something that makes you hallucinate." assuming he was a reasonably intelligent person who'd either heard the word used in context before, or recognized the root word from which it is constructed. Similarly, if you check in a dictionary (including medical and scientific dictionaries, as I quoted in my previous post) you see much the same definition. It is only as you move from the utter layman to the interested amateur and biased professional that you see the word used to mean anything which "cause subjective changes in perception, thought, emotion and consciousness."
That is the reason for my disagreement. By using the word in the context of the last sentence in the previous paragraph, and describing THC as an hallucinogen, you are implying that smoking pot will make you hallucinate. This is simply not true for the vast majority of people. There is a very small chance that you will hallucinate as an indirect result of smoking pot, if you have the right body chemistry to allow for hallucinations caused by the release of endorphins.
And that being said, I'll stop arguing.


That's something I've experienced as well, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it synesthesia. It's more like the endorphins in your brain help you make conscious connections between the senses, and causing visual stimuli to serve as inspiration for auditory expression. It's more like an amplification of the brain processes which already work, and less like the creation of new processes. As an example:
User posted image: <a target='_blank' href='http://www.things4myspace.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/gothic/gothic-54.gif'>User posted image</a>
User posted image: <a target='_blank' href='http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/7051/rabbit31wp6.jpg'>User posted image</a>
If you try to come up with music based on one of these two images, the styles of the music will be dramatically different. Music for the first would likely be very wistful, sorrowful music, heavily layered, possibly with a driving bass line, simple 4x4 drums and lots of synths, loaded with effects. Music for the second would be simple, uptempo and playful, possibly featuring the predominant use of brass and horns, or perhaps maybe a folk/country-themed number with a simple guitar and violin combination.
If you were to do the same thing under the influence of THC, you would probably come to the same conclusions about the music, the difference being the ease with which the process happens. You'd likely start humming something right away.
Now, ten people can try that little exercise, and while they would all naturally come up with different musical phrases to describe each picture, the resemblance between two people's version of the first picture's theme would be far less than the difference between a single person's theme for the first and second picture.

It's just an amplification, not a new process.




I also want to add that I forgot to list tachycardia in my original list of the side effects of marijuana. It's true that it is a common side effect, and I don't know why I forgot to mention it.

I think I agree with this post. No, you will not hallucinate on Marijuana and to say it's a hallucinogen might be a bit much, but if they want to use the word for a formal definition of it, I say let them play their word games. The public will realize the truth in the end anyway.
BigDumbWeirdo
QUOTE (Ashibayai+Feb 8 2008, 02:23 AM)
The public will realize the truth in the end anyway.

I disagree with that part. Misinformation is FAR easier to come by than accurate information.
Derek1148
The classification as a Hallucinogen is not in and of itself negative. THC apparently seems to aid patients suffering from severe nausea after receiving chemotherapy. In addition, THC can reduce eye pressure in the treatment of glaucoma.

In some cases, Hypnotics are used in the treatment of insomnia.

Classification is simply employed to categorize various drugs and narcotics.
"THEY"
Derek, let me interrupt and clarify your post a bit. It isn't necessarily true that it is THC that is used medicinally...... Let me quote from wikipedia here to support myself...

QUOTE
Marinol, a registered trademark of Unimed Pharmaceuticals, Inc. is the commercial name for a product containing dronabinol, which is the INN of Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC). THC is a naturally occurring component in cannabis. While THC is the main psychoactive substance in cannabis, dronabinol preparations do not contain the other significant chemical constituents present in cannabis.

Marinol is an FDA-approved cannabinoid and is prescribed as an appetite stimulant, primarily for AIDS, chemotherapy and gastric bypass patients. Marinol was also FDA approved as an anti-nauseant, in order to better address the nauseau experienced after chemotherapy treatments. Compare Sativex, a mouth spray for neuropathic pain of multiple sclerosis sufferers approved for use in Canada and in the US as of 2006. While Marinol can serve as an anti-emetic and appetite booster, its immunomodulative effect should be taken into account in the treatment of any compromised immune condition.


And you don't get high off Marinol. This is a subject I understand, as my sister in law can no longer be prescribed Marinol as she is a pot smoker, and my niece (the cancer baby) also can't be prescribed Marinol for her nausea as the mother is a pot smoker and nursing her still.......
Derek1148
QUOTE ("THEY"+Feb 8 2008, 05:45 PM)
Derek, let me interrupt and clarify your post a bit.  It isn't necessarily true that it is THC that is used medicinally......  Let me quote from wikipedia here to support myself...



And you don't get high off Marinol.  This is a subject I understand, as my sister in law can no longer be prescribed Marinol as she is a pot smoker, and my niece (the cancer baby) also can't be prescribed Marinol for her nausea as the mother is a pot smoker and nursing her still.......

Certain narcotics, although effective when medically indicated, have enormous potential for abuse. Methaqualone was an excellent pharmaceutical but was highly abused.

I understand what you are saying. But THC is effective in the medical indications you describe. Legality is another issue. Heroin is an effective pain killer but not currently prescribed in USA.


P.S.
I wish your niece well. If your niece would benefit from the prescription pharmaceutical, I would get a second opinion (both medical and legal) on obtaining it for her.
tikay
QUOTE ("THEY"+Feb 8 2008, 10:45 AM)




And you don't get high off Marinol. This is a subject I understand, as my sister in law can no longer be prescribed Marinol as she is a pot smoker, and my niece (the cancer baby) also can't be prescribed Marinol for her nausea as the mother is a pot smoker and nursing her still.......

Is that legal where you live? For the mom to smoke weed and nurse the baby. huh.gif A person I know just had her baby taken for smoking while pregnant, (in CA).
Of course that may be only part of the story, I never talked to doctors, just this mom.
"THEY"
(Thanks Derek, she had a transplant end of November and is doing quite well now. As long as the cancer never comes back somewhere else, but she is still under chemo to reduce the possibility of that)

Tracey, I HIGHly doubt it is legal here, but in Alaska it pretty much is (ps, pun intended wink.gif ). I imagine the reason she can't take Marinol, is because the drs in AK gave Childrens Hosp the heads up, so they dont give it to her, and just don't test the baby or mom for drugs. If they gave her Marinol, they would have to test the blood for that too, then would be put into a legal bind when they found too high of levels..... Washington state laws and restrictions pretty much mirror California.

Also, after posting my above quote, I read further into the wiki article, and it claims some people DO experience intoxication from Marinol. In my previous readings, I had heard it didn't. So I stand corrected. ph34r.gif
tikay
Oh...well in Hawaii I had friends whose son got a grapefruit sized cancer in his stomach. Kona hospital allowed (well turned a blind eye) when the parents closed the door and gave a few hits to their eight year old, before meals.

I still don't know where I stand on kids getting high, unless they ARE very sick.
There are so many complications that arise from a serious habit forming. There is a young man in this house getting high,(like seven days a week) and I just wish the mom would do more to stop that. He just turned 14. I do not see a bright future for him, but I did the same thing so i can't judge him for it...I just wish more for him from life, than I ended up with.
"THEY"
QUOTE (tikay+Feb 8 2008, 11:29 AM)
I just wish more for him from life, than I ended up with.

Yeah... I can't imagine my life being as successful as it is, if I never gave it up so many years ago..... unsure.gif
BigDumbWeirdo
QUOTE (Derek1148+Feb 8 2008, 11:50 AM)
The classification as a Hallucinogen is not in and of itself negative. 

No, but it has distinct connotations which are patently untrue.

QUOTE
THC apparently seems to aid patients suffering from severe nausea after receiving chemotherapy.

Nausea of any sort, really, but most such studies have been done on chemo patients, yes.

QUOTE (->
QUOTE
THC apparently seems to aid patients suffering from severe nausea after receiving chemotherapy.

Nausea of any sort, really, but most such studies have been done on chemo patients, yes.

In addition, THC can reduce eye pressure in the treatment of glaucoma.

So much for the government classifying it as having "no medical usage."
(I'm agreeing with you, by the way.)

QUOTE
Classification is simply employed to categorize various drugs and narcotics.

Right. And while THC is sometimes classified as an hallucinogen, it is not always the case, nor is it accurate given the definition of "hallucinogen."
Just because some doctors call it that, doesn't make it so. Keep in mind that in all sciences, there are political issues which influence the research and theories of the scientists involved. Not all scientists are always correct, and in this case, I firmly believe that THC should never be classified as an hallucinogen, and most European and oriental medical standards agree. It's predominantly American doctors who classify it as such, which is quite telling when you consider the intolerant view that mainstream America has held towards THC for about a hundred years, now.


P.S. Let me take this opportunity to apologize if I came off as being judgmental in my disagreement, I didn't mean to. I wrote my initial disagreement with the assumption that you would quickly agree with me (for the same reasons I've given since,) and while I enjoy intelligent debate, I don't want to be an @$$ when my opponent clearly isn't being one, him/herself. smile.gif
"THEY"
I never hallucinated. But I DID go through withdrawals........ Pot is said to be non addictive.......... laugh.gif laugh.gif
tikay
QUOTE (BigDumbWeirdo+Feb 8 2008, 02:27 PM)



Right. And while THC is sometimes classified as an hallucinogen, it is not always the case, nor is it accurate given the definition of "hallucinogen."

It's a rather BROAD definition isn't it...I agree it isn't in any way accurate unless you have symptoms which I already exposed earlier.

So far as having withdrawals...that was probably not physical, probably psycological only, THEY. What do you think?
Mr. Robin Parsons
Given that in the US alcohol is no longer classified as a 'Drug' but is a Beverage, (Remember if out in the woods and injured apparently you are not supposed to use alcohol to clean a wound ~ as it is a beverage ~ not a drug-antiseptic) how and/or why certain drugs obtain the classification they do - seems - at times more political then scientific or medical.

One of the withdrawal symptoms from Pot is an urge to commit suicide, which goes away after about a week from it's onset.

Pan Pax

smile.gif
Sapo
Robin, that might have been one of your withdrawal symptoms, but not mine, or anyone else's I've ever spoken to. Did you stop more than just smoking in the same period?
Mr. Robin Parsons
QUOTE (Sapo+Feb 9 2008, 12:25 PM)
Robin, that might have been one of your withdrawal symptoms, but not mine, or anyone else's I've ever spoken to. Did you stop more than just smoking in the same period?
No ~ it was - has been - numerous people who have told me that.

Pan Pax

smile.gif
Derek1148
QUOTE ("THEY"+Feb 8 2008, 09:45 PM)
I never hallucinated.  But I DID go through withdrawals........  Pot is said to be non addictive..........  laugh.gif  laugh.gif

In the general sense of defining addiction, one could become addicted to using marijuana, drinking coffee, or even gambling. The use of marijuana and coffee can be habit forming. As can engaging in gambling. And with marijuana or caffeine there might be some minor physical reactions to the removal of the substance from one’s system.

Whereas the using of heroin, methadone, and barbiturates can also become a habit-forming activity, however when removed from one’s system, all three substances generally cause severe physical withdrawal symptoms. And in some cases the withdrawal can be fatal.
Sapo
Something that I find interesting are the dmnd drug company advertisements that caution against such things as 'sudden urges to gamble', or 'sudden uncontrollable sexual urges'. I probably misquoted some of that, but whatever, the gist is there.

My response: *** are they feeding us? My cousin took one of the sleeping pills that've been introduced recently, I forget which, but she reported waking up surrounded by candy wrappers. She had no memory of it, and she's diabetic for God's sake. I've heard of sleep driving, too. Man, I'll just have a beer. sad.gif
Edward 3
Sapo,
I have never come across a drug that does not warn of every possible side-effect ranging from common cold to the possibility of instant death if consumed. It´s just corporate lawyers covering ***.a$$

P.S. I just discovered I can type murder, torture, even Bush , but I am censored from typing a$$. What a$$h0le made that rule ??
Sapo
I know, but until recently, drugs that had unpredictable side-effects were not marketed so widely. The doctors have been taken out of the loop by f'd up statistics and PR. I have said before, I think, that my favorite Latin saying is "Plurissima Leges, Corruptissima Republica". My Latin is terrible, and I didn't take the time to find the correct version, so please forgive me.

Lordy, I just saw your filthy language! Shame, young man! Bush used to be a nice thing. (Maybe we should move this to 'A Little Levity'?) Or not.
Mr. Robin Parsons
QUOTE (Sapo+Feb 9 2008, 04:15 PM)
Something that I find interesting are the dmnd drug company advertisements that caution against such things as 'sudden urges to gamble', or 'sudden uncontrollable sexual urges'. I probably misquoted some of that, but whatever, the gist is there. My response: *** are they feeding us? My cousin took one of the sleeping pills that've been introduced recently, I forget which, but she reported waking up surrounded by candy wrappers. She had no memory of it, and she's diabetic for God's sake. I've heard of sleep driving, too. Man, I'll just have a beer. 
Worked briefly for a printing company some years back and (I) got to see the little cards that get handed out to doctors only Full disclosure cards relevant to specific drugs.

Doctors do get to know, if they read it all, and recall it all, and some of the information was eyeopening to me as it spoke of things like allergic reactions rates, symptoms and treatments and the brevity of time (for the ones that (I) read) to react was well, short - therefore they do get the Knowledge that most of us never get to know or see.

Not a consumer of pills of any form ~ other than when (I) was younger and (I) used ASA for headaches and toothaches.

Pan Pax

smile.gif
tikay
QUOTE (Edward 3+Feb 9 2008, 01:26 PM)
Sapo,
I have never come across a drug that does not warn of every possible side-effect ranging from common cold to the possibility of instant death if consumed. It´s just corporate lawyers covering ***.a$$

P.S. I just discovered I can type murder, torture, even Bush , but I am censored from typing a$$. What a$$h0le made that rule ??

Goddamn is quite acceptable here too, as is bullshit, lardass, and shithead ! laugh.gif

Just be sure to put your swear-words together and you'll be fine...

Goddamn I had such a hard time quitting reefer, it was such bullshit...I felt like such a lardass and a total shithead!

Best to use these words about ones-self!!!!
Drude
Smoking Marijuana in my view is a waste of productive time, an expensive and in some locality (except Nederlands) a liability legally as well as socially, and at best a form of smoking (which is deterimental to health). I never really understood why the popular culture chose marijuana as the cool drug, when in fact so many other non-evasive, legal herbs exist that exhibit the same (well maybe not equally disorienting) effects as marijuana , such as flavoured tobacoo used in hooka, or other otherwise equally harmful (healthy wise), cheaper and legal alternatives.

For some reason also I tend to associate marijuana use with certain personalities (which of course is a crude generalization from personal experience but nontheless an impression I have) who lack motivation, drive to excell, and lack what I call "social ambitions." I of course I speak of memory thinking back on my roommates, who were (by then's standard) rather annoying, and socially sequestered. I also cant help but associate pony-tail with marijuana which I of course understand is a null scientific relationship but probably has to do with the fact that those poeple who most used the drug had the charactristic.

I am also fairly confident that if you dig deeper and perform statistical analysis you might (a prediction) find a correlation with people who do much more dangerous drugs (like opiates or heroin) and marijuana smoking; it is simple, you start with cigarettes, then "ciga-weed" and then other forms of potentially lethal and dependence-developoing drugs follow.

I just wish anybody who honestly cares about themselves, and is not in a defensive teen (or post teen stage) would wisen up to the deteriments of this menacing plant, and quit its use.
Ashibayai
There are a lot of things that are wasteful and harmful to people, but most of them aren't illegal. If there were a good alternative to marijuana I'd be ecstatic, but there isn't so I'll just have to do without.

Although, I'm sure my liver will be quite unhappy about this decision. laugh.gif
paul h
Drude,
>Smoking Marijuana in my view is a waste of productive time,

Only if your smoking at work. tongue.gif
Life is not all about work, there is down time, recreation, stress relief, relaxation.
Right place and right time.

>For some reason also I tend to associate marijuana use with certain personalities ... who lack motivation, drive to excell, and lack what I call "social ambitions."

You forgot stuped. but we do still need them,, (somebody has to empty the trash, dig the ditches, lift that barge, tote that bail). Some people don't have any ladders to climb, but when they are off work who cares how they relax. It's natures way of making sure that we have enough stupid people to do the jobs that smart people won't do. wink.gif
cync
The key thing for young person to know before starting to smoke marijuana, as far as I'm concerned, is that some people the come addicted to it---or, as marijuana smokers so insistently correct---habituated to it.

Whatever the technical difference between addiction and habituation is, the fact is some people become dependent on marijuana.

As far as I know, this doesn't seem to be well documented.

If you become habituated to marijuana, it will eliminate your ability to progress as a human being during the time in which you are habituated. For me, this lasted 10 years. It was 10 years without progress as a person that I could ill-afford.

Another thing you need to realize is, it can take a very long time to become habituated to marijuana. As I figure it, I smoked for 10 years before I became habituated. I doubt there is another drug that can form a destructive habit so slowly.

I knew other people who were similarly habituated to marijuana (they tend to meet each other!)

Another thing for young person to consider is, if marijuana becomes your "drug" instead of alcohol---as was the case with myself---you end up having less of a chance to meet other people---especially people of the opposite sex. You can't indulge in a public bar because it is illegal.

On the other hand, addiction to alcohol is more deadly than habituation to marijuana. I never experienced that---but I don't want to minimize it---that is something you definitely have to carefully watch out for.
BigDumbWeirdo
QUOTE (cync+Feb 11 2008, 01:24 PM)
The key thing for young person to know before starting to smoke marijuana, as far as I'm concerned, is that some people the come addicted to it---or, as marijuana smokers so insistently correct---habituated to it.

And so it begins. I applaud your choice of words.

QUOTE
Whatever the technical difference between addiction and habituation is, the fact is some people become dependent on marijuana.

The difference is the presence of physiological withdrawal symptoms in the case of addiction, versus psychological (or psychosomatic-induced) withdrawal symptoms in the case of a habit.

QUOTE (->
QUOTE
Whatever the technical difference between addiction and habituation is, the fact is some people become dependent on marijuana.

The difference is the presence of physiological withdrawal symptoms in the case of addiction, versus psychological (or psychosomatic-induced) withdrawal symptoms in the case of a habit.

As far as I know, this doesn't seem to be well documented.

Read High Times magazine. There are literally hundred of letters and articles printed in it pertaining to people quitting marijuana.

QUOTE
If you become habituated to marijuana, it will eliminate your ability to progress as a human being during the time in which you are habituated.  For me, this lasted 10 years.  It was 10 years without progress as a person that I could ill-afford.

Patently false, except for the anecdote. Don't blame the drug:
You chose to use it.
Even under the influence, you were still in control of yourself.
Even with your judgment impaired (which THC doesn't do for anyone I've ever met) you are still making decisions yourself.
A more accurate way of phrasing it would be "I experienced a period of 10 years in which I did not progress in terms of maturity or social skills, at the end of which time I decided to stop being that person, and as a part of this decided to stop smoking marijuana."

QUOTE (->
QUOTE
If you become habituated to marijuana, it will eliminate your ability to progress as a human being during the time in which you are habituated.  For me, this lasted 10 years.  It was 10 years without progress as a person that I could ill-afford.

Patently false, except for the anecdote. Don't blame the drug:
You chose to use it.
Even under the influence, you were still in control of yourself.
Even with your judgment impaired (which THC doesn't do for anyone I've ever met) you are still making decisions yourself.
A more accurate way of phrasing it would be "I experienced a period of 10 years in which I did not progress in terms of maturity or social skills, at the end of which time I decided to stop being that person, and as a part of this decided to stop smoking marijuana."

Another thing you need to realize is, it can take a very long time to become habituated to marijuana.  As I figure it, I smoked for 10 years before I became habituated.  I doubt there is another drug that can form a destructive habit so slowly.

Labeling it "destructive" is utterly biased. Read High Times magazine for interviews with CEOs, celebrities, judges, congressmen, mayors, famous philanthropists, and professionals from dozens of fields who all smoke marijuana.

QUOTE
I knew other people who were similarly habituated to marijuana (they tend to meet each other!)

As do many people who share some pastime or another.

QUOTE (->
QUOTE
I knew other people who were similarly habituated to marijuana (they tend to meet each other!)

As do many people who share some pastime or another.

Another thing for young person to consider is, if marijuana becomes your "drug" instead of alcohol---as was the case with myself---you end up having less of a chance to meet other people---especially people of the opposite sex.  You can't indulge in a public bar because it is illegal.

Wait, didn't you JUST say that marijuana smokers tend to meet each other?? unsure.gif blink.gif

QUOTE
On the other hand, addiction to alcohol is more deadly than habituation to marijuana.  I never experienced that---but I don't want to minimize it---that is something you definitely have to carefully watch out for.

Finally, you end on a correct note.
Your post was like a misinformation sandwich, on a nice fresh-baked valid information bun.
Mr. Robin Parsons
QUOTE (Mr. Robin Parsons+Feb 9 2008, 08:55 PM)
(SNIP) Worked briefly for a printing company some years back and (I) got to see the little cards that get handed out to doctors only Full disclosure cards relevant to specific drugs. (SNoP)
BTW this was some years back, like the Nineties, and it has changed (somewhat?) since then. They are better at telling us all of what a drug does because it protects them (Drug Companies) better from lawsuit.

Pan Pax

smile.gif
Sapo
QUOTE (BigDumbWeirdo+Feb 11 2008, 01:48 PM)

Read High Times magazine. There are literally hundred of letters and articles printed in it pertaining to people quitting marijuana.


ohmy.gif High Times has text? I found out that Playboy did, and discovered Shel Silverstein. Does HT have, like, articles and stuff, too? Oh, wow.

laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif
tikay
QUOTE (BigDumbWeirdo+Feb 11 2008, 11:48 AM)

Your post was like a misinformation sandwich, on a nice fresh-baked valid information bun.

I liked your post cync and understood it, and related to it.

I think that everyone is prone to act in different ways relating to smoking marijuana. That some are more productive and others far more productive than others while indulging in it's use or abuse.

If one finds that it is a very pleasent feeling to be under the influence, then the person may find it more debilitating because we tend to abuse it rather than use it.

Myself I found a propensity to lighting up first thing in the morning and smoking it all day long (here and there) to keep a buzz going at a sort of constant rate.
This is more an abuse mode and results in the eventual shutting down of other needs and desires, while those become replaced with the popular one of just being stoned (IN MY OPINION).

I procrastinated and deleted many goals during the years I was smoking a lot of pot. I decided against higher education for going to the beach...and visiting friends to get high. I put off so many things so consistantly it became a habit to put things off, and then having put them off for a long time, sometimes the need to do them at all was eliminated.

Only things that would keep me out of trouble seemed to get done (closer to) on time, things like getting the car legal...so I wouldn't get tickets for things like registration, or insurance...renewing my drivers license. And so I wouldn't be stopped for the law to find weed in my car.


So many jobs were not acceptable because I could not have handled them stoned.
So many people were unacceptable because they would not understand the extent of my habit.
So many days were spent in running around to share my dope or to find someone who would share theirs with me.
A days goal could be where to find a person to get high with, for sharing it was a part of the thrill of being high. Having met the goal I was quite happy that the day had been productive. The conversations we had seemed to be enough to satisfy me that my life was productive and useful.

Maybe some people are more habituated than others, I think if the term addiction fits in any sense, I was addicted to the system I followed around smoking weed, if not to the herb itself. I thought I was addicted to smoking it, I knew I was caught up in a pattern I was going to have a hard time leaving behind.

Maybe my mental state was different than many others but my ability to be very productive on pot was stymied. I could work in certain areas but not others. My ability to write coherantly was not bettered...I tried to journal while high and I used to have a good laugh later when reading the silly things i'd written.
It may have helped in the field of farming, it made the time fly while doing repeatitive work like picking macadamia nuts.

The healing that may have come from smoking marijuana is hard to prove but I found it to be cathartic.

This information is not meant to be factual but merely experiential, based on one persons experience.
Derek1148
QUOTE (Sapo+Feb 11 2008, 07:29 PM)
ohmy.gif High Times has text? I found out that Playboy did, and discovered Shel Silverstein. Does HT have, like, articles and stuff, too? Oh, wow.

laugh.gif  laugh.gif  laugh.gif

Hey, I accidently discovered Ray Bradbury in Playboy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Sound_of_Thunder#Literature
BigDumbWeirdo
QUOTE (Derek1148+Feb 11 2008, 02:38 PM)
Hey, I accidently discovered Ray Bradbury in Playboy.

I discovered The Fabric of the Cosmos by Brian Greene from an ad in Penthouse.
laugh.gif
Derek1148
QUOTE (BigDumbWeirdo+Feb 11 2008, 07:46 PM)
I discovered The Fabric of the Cosmos by Brian Greene from an ad in Penthouse.
laugh.gif

In the back of those magazines (advertisement section) one could buy a Bachelor of Science degree for $50.00 or a Doctorate degree for $75.00.
Sapo
QUOTE (BigDumbWeirdo+Feb 11 2008, 02:46 PM)
I discovered The Fabric of the Cosmos by Brian Greene from an ad in Penthouse.
laugh.gif

And it works the other way, too. I discovered porn in the hallowed issues of National Geographic. My how times change. biggrin.gif
Derek1148
Edit.
cync
QUOTE (tikay+Feb 11 2008, 07:38 PM)
I liked your post cync and understood it, and related to it...

The healing that may have come from smoking marijuana is hard to prove but I found it to be cathartic.


Thank you for your initial comment as quoted.


I enjoyed reading the whole of your post, BigDumbWeirdo. There is a parallel between our experiences, though I did not live near the beach and it sounds like you might have been having more fun than I was---leaving aside the getting high part itself, which was similar. More below.

To the guy who posted before you---sorry I don't have the name handy, I'm not sure if your comments are correct or not as far as the references the very successful and dynamic people. Maybe, but are you sure the people you refer to are really habituated to marijuana---or are they merely smoking "recreationally"? At any rate, I refer to my own experiences and the small number of people I knew in the same situation. I'm quite certain that marijuana had a very negative affect on my life and the lives of these people that I knew very well. You are mistaken to say that the lack of energy---and more than that, lack of courage---was unrelated to the marijuana habit in my case and in the case of those I knew very well.

To be more specific, I had a problem with anxiety. Marijuana allowed me to "escape" that problem temporarily. But then when I came down the anxiety was worse, so I had to get high again. I don't feel like going into all the details of how the process worked out over the years. Suffice to say I had serious issues to work out---and never began to address them until I quit marijuana---nor could I have.

In addition, your defense of marijuana strikes me as overly strong---and reminds me of numerous such defenses I have encountered over the years. I think you are in denial about the bad effects of marijuana.

Back to BigDumbWeirdo. Could you please explain the "healing" that came from marijuana? I'm not asking for proof---just wondering what you mean. In my case, while I might've had feelings like that initially, I certainly didn't retained any such view after a long period of habituation.

I find it interesting that you and your discussion of being habituated to marijuana on such a positive note. By the way, I am wondering if you have quit, if the question is not intrusive.
BigDumbWeirdo
QUOTE (Sapo+Feb 11 2008, 02:51 PM)
And it works the other way, too. I discovered porn in the hallowed issues of National Geographic. My how times change.  biggrin.gif

Hey, me too! laugh.gif
I swear to god I grew up thinking that sub-Saharan African women were the epitome of feminine beauty. laugh.gif

QUOTE (Cync+)
To the guy who posted before you---sorry I don't have the name handy, I'm not sure if your comments are correct or not as far as the references the very successful and dynamic people. Maybe, but are you sure the people you refer to are really habituated to marijuana---or are they merely smoking "recreationally"?

The line between those two manners of smoking is incredibly fuzzy. Some people recreationally smoke every day. Some people have a habit of smoking every weekend. Considering the lack of physical dependency inherent in marijuana, I would say that it's not a distinction that can be easily drawn.
All that being said, common sense tells us that if you're a public figure willing to appear in High Times magazine, you're a daily smoker and proud of it, at the least.

QUOTE
You are mistaken to say that the lack of energy---and more than that, lack of courage---was unrelated to the marijuana habit in my case and in the case of those I knew very well.

I think you're blaming the drug. While I won't claim you won't feel lethargic while under the influence of marijuana, I will say this: My friend Oliver is about to complete his master's degree in physics (and has degrees in mathematics) while on the Dean's list (3.9 GPA!!) and has a wife and a child, as well as many many friends, and he's smoked every single day since he was 14. (He actually had to apply to 15 different jobs after high school to find one that let him work part time and didn't require a drug test.)
I myself have smoked it regularly since I was about 15 or 16, and in that time I managed to overcome Asperger's syndrome and develop the sort of social skills that would make most Aspies wet their pants with jealousy. Of course, I'm no Casanova, but I am fully functional in that regards. During that time I've also taken an IQ test and scored very high, high enough to make the lady who administered the test recommend that my parents enroll me in private school, where I could major in math & science. (Of course, they didn't listen, but that's ok, I'd probably have all the social graces of pissed-off gorilla on steroids if they had.)

QUOTE (->
QUOTE
You are mistaken to say that the lack of energy---and more than that, lack of courage---was unrelated to the marijuana habit in my case and in the case of those I knew very well.

I think you're blaming the drug. While I won't claim you won't feel lethargic while under the influence of marijuana, I will say this: My friend Oliver is about to complete his master's degree in physics (and has degrees in mathematics) while on the Dean's list (3.9 GPA!!) and has a wife and a child, as well as many many friends, and he's smoked every single day since he was 14. (He actually had to apply to 15 different jobs after high school to find one that let him work part time and didn't require a drug test.)
I myself have smoked it regularly since I was about 15 or 16, and in that time I managed to overcome Asperger's syndrome and develop the sort of social skills that would make most Aspies wet their pants with jealousy. Of course, I'm no Casanova, but I am fully functional in that regards. During that time I've also taken an IQ test and scored very high, high enough to make the lady who administered the test recommend that my parents enroll me in private school, where I could major in math & science. (Of course, they didn't listen, but that's ok, I'd probably have all the social graces of pissed-off gorilla on steroids if they had.)

To be more specific, I had a problem with anxiety. Marijuana allowed me to "escape" that problem temporarily. But then when I came down the anxiety was worse, so I had to get high again. I don't feel like going into all the details of how the process worked out over the years. Suffice to say I had serious issues to work out---and never began to address them until I quit marijuana---nor could I have.

I doubt that you couldn't have. My girl has serious issues with anxiety, and while she smokes regularly, she also has seen a therapist about it. (Who actually recommended that she continue her habit in lieu of prescribing her anything.)

QUOTE
In addition, your defense of marijuana strikes me as overly strong---and reminds me of numerous such defenses I have encountered over the years. I think you are in denial about the bad effects of marijuana.

Not at all. Go through and read my posts in this thread. I opened with a list of the harmful side effects, and later added one (tachycardia) to the list that I had forgotten. I'm simply a realist. I don't buy into the hype that's been spun about the harmful effects of marijuana, and you cannot deny that hype has been the name of the game when it comes to mainstream views on the negative effects of marijuana.
Sapo
A sidebar, if I may, on another facet that hasn't been more than touched on yet:

If I am digging the squarest, most flat-bottomed, 16x16x18" deep footing for a foundation, and it's only the third out of eight for the 10 hour day, in Texas stone, with a little bit of dirt thrown in to tease, something to help turn the drudgery into a dance surely helps. I once had that job; after digging for three days, one of my co-workers lit up and, of course shared. We dug lots more holes, and he brought more every day afterwards! laugh.gif

I wouldn't recommend using while driving a D-3, of course... sad.gif
tikay
QUOTE (cync+Feb 11 2008, 01:40 PM)
Thank you for your initial comment as quoted.


Back to BigDumbWeirdo.  Could you please explain the "healing" that came from marijuana?  I'm not asking for proof---just wondering what you mean.  In my case, while I might've had feelings like that initially, I certainly didn't retained any such view after a long period of habituation.

I find it interesting that you and your discussion of being habituated to marijuana on such a positive note.  By the way, I am wondering if you have quit, if the question is not intrusive.

I think you are addressing me tikay...I am female. I was the one you quoted here, and I found some healing from using marijuana, in the ways that you may have with anxiety. I found that my shyness was removed and I could work on being more social, I found I could trust more and forgive man for their indiscretions...their sins against me.

I found a removal of stigmas against others, and an openness formally not understood. I found an ability to deal with my sexual nature which had been damaged from a molestation by a father figure.
I found a sense of freedom not experienced in the past, a freedom from care and worry about the smaller things and a unity with life that I felt I needed to heal from past harms, by more than the one person.

I clearly was helped out by learning the lessons learned while intoxicated on weed, but harmful things came to pass too, while i indulged. I also wonder how much better (financially) my life may have moved along if I had attended school as I had once planned and how more secure I may be now, and how therapy may have been another (better?) route to wellness. I did get some therapy as well while I smoked, and more later...So I am not saying that it was some kind of end all be all...but that somehow I believe it was a healing agent, as well as being something that caused me some harm in the long. Many things appear to be like this in life, having a dual purpose or unwanted side effects while benefiting some part or other.
Sometimes life is enhanced while one is separated from the crowd, other times life harms while it isolates you from love. Sometimes both appear to be active...in the life of a person. Enhanced one way and harmed another by the same substance, this is what I implied, simply.

Thus, I hold no grudge against myself for indulging for years while my psyche healed from some deep mental gash...the herb was a poultice to be sure, and a balm. YET maybe I stayed a bit too long, embracing the cure that's all. I fell in love with my cure, and began to abuse it. No substance is meant to be abused without ill effect. Moderation and a healthy mind cannot be overly harmed by this tonic, but ill health and addictive nature may be beset with sloth and lost dreams. This is what I basically honestly believe.

smile.gif
Tracey/tikay

BigDumbWeirdo
QUOTE (tikay+Feb 11 2008, 09:14 PM)
...I found some healing from using marijuana, in the ways that you may have with anxiety. I found that my shyness was removed and I could work on being more social, I found I could trust more and forgive man for their indiscretions...their sins against me.

I found a removal of stigmas against others, and an openness formally not understood. I found an ability to deal with my sexual nature which had been damaged from a molestation by a father figure.
I found a sense of freedom not experienced in the past, a freedom from care and worry about the smaller things and a unity with life that I felt I needed to heal from past harms, by more than the one person.
...

I can attest to all of those things in my experience, as well.

QUOTE (Sapo+)
If I am digging the squarest, most flat-bottomed, 16x16x18" deep footing for a foundation, and it's only the third out of eight for the 10 hour day, in Texas stone, with a little bit of dirt thrown in to tease, something to help turn the drudgery into a dance surely helps. I once had that job; after digging for three days, one of my co-workers lit up and, of course shared. We dug lots more holes, and he brought more every day afterwards!

I wouldn't recommend using while driving a D-3, of course...

One of my former bands was once stuck in a rut, trying to write songs. For six months we jammed and jammed and jammed, but nothing clicked. Finally (due to some unusual circumstances, we had not done so prior) our guitar player, Zakk brought some doobage to practice. We all sat down and smoked, and over the course of the next 4 hours, wrote and recorded (not profesisonaly, just a room mic to help us remember the songs) 3 songs.
One of those songs (the first one we wrote) resulted in a roomfull of teary-eyed teenage and twenty-something girls, and a roomfull of jaw gaping teenage and twenty-something boys when we first played it live. Our most popular song ever.
Not that the marijuana is responsible of course, but it helped us reach down inside and pull that song up out of ourselves.
"THEY"
QUOTE (BigDumbWeirdo+Feb 12 2008, 09:01 AM)
One of my former bands was once stuck in a rut, trying to write songs. For six months we jammed and jammed and jammed, but nothing clicked. Finally (due to some unusual circumstances, we had not done so prior) our guitar player, Zakk brought some doobage to practice. We all sat down and smoked, and over the course of the next 4 hours, wrote and recorded (not profesisonaly, just a room mic to help us remember the songs) 3 songs.
One of those songs (the first one we wrote) resulted in a roomfull of teary-eyed teenage and twenty-something girls, and a roomfull of jaw gaping teenage and twenty-something boys when we first played it live. Our most popular song ever.
Not that the marijuana is responsible of course, but it helped us reach down inside and pull that song up out of ourselves.

Funny, just last night They2 asked why most male performers seem to either a/ be on drugs or b/ are gay........

I personally think that guys bottle up their passion (which is what comes out in a very good piece of music - I'd love to hear your song.....) The pot (or alcohol, or other drug) is used to drop your inhibitions so you can either write music or perform your act. I know as a kid, I too had too many inhibitions. But the pot only masked the problem, the issues were still there until I dealth with them psychologically. Pot is a bandaid, but if stitches are needed, the wound will never properly heal and that bandaid will be needed continually.
Baby Gauss(darren)
QUOTE ("THEY"+Feb 12 2008, 06:18 PM)
But the pot only masked the problem, the issues were still there until I dealth with them psychologically.  Pot is a bandaid, but if stitches are needed, the wound will never properly heal and that bandaid will be needed continually.

Hi all,

Darren's back from the dead, I didn't even have to sign in, someone read my workshop PC which has no Internet connections, and enrolled me back into physorg.com, strange eH?

My old call sign 'Darren' was banned until the year 2035. Actually, Bush's Nazi bastards blew my PC, it's power supply is beyond repair. Thank you very much Mr Bush. Bush is always going on about how much freedom of speech we have,eH?

As for weed, I've got 8 plants going under a sun lamp. biggrin.gif, Oh, and whats wrong with being constantly stoned? laugh.gif

Cheers guys
Darren
"THEY"
QUOTE (Baby Gauss(darren)+Feb 12 2008, 10:45 AM)
Hi all,

Darren's back from the dead, I didn't even have to sign in, someone read my workshop PC which has no Internet connections, and enrolled me back into physorg.com, strange eH?

My old call sign 'Darren' was banned until the year 2035. Actually, Bush's Nazi bastards blew my PC, it's power supply is beyond repair. Thank you very much Mr Bush. Bush is always going on about how much freedom of speech we have,eH?

As for weed, I've got 8 plants going under a sun lamp. biggrin.gif, Oh, and whats wrong with being constantly stoned? laugh.gif

Cheers guys
Darren

Welcome back Darren! And, you just answered my long standing speculation. I could smell that stink on this side of the pond. I have had you pegged as a pot smoker for a loooooooooong time, dude. Once again, I'M RIGHT! laugh.gif

Hey, have you guys brought up the side effect of paranoia in some people who smoke pot? SHEESH! (hint hint)

LOL
tikay
QUOTE (Baby Gauss(darren)+Feb 12 2008, 11:45 AM)
Actually, Bush's Nazi bastards blew my PC, it's power supply is beyond repair. Thank you very much Mr Bush. Bush is always going on about how much freedom of speech we have,eH?


Oh, and whats wrong with being constantly stoned? laugh.gif


Maybe the paranoia that sometimes goes with getting high.
Tell us how Bush blew out your computer?
Derek1148
QUOTE (tikay+Feb 12 2008, 02:14 AM)
I found a removal of stigmas against others, and an openness formally not understood. I found an ability to deal with my sexual nature which had been damaged from a molestation by a father figure.
I found a sense of freedom not experienced in the past, a freedom from care and worry about the smaller things and a unity with life that I felt I needed to heal from past harms, by more than the one person.

Some use marijuana as a “recreational drug”. And there are risks in using any “drug” or mood altering substance.

However, some individuals who have suffered physiological (and physical) abuse use marijuana (or alcohol, or etc.) to “self medicate.” “Self medication” leaves one vulnerable to excessive drug use and experimentation with stronger (more effective) substances.
gmilam
QUOTE (Derek1148+Feb 12 2008, 02:08 PM)
Some use marijuana as a “recreational drug”. And there are risks in using any “drug” or mood altering substance.

However, some individuals who have suffered physiological (and physical) abuse use marijuana (or alcohol, or etc.) to “self medicate.” “Self medication” leaves one vulnerable to excessive drug use and experimentation with stronger (more effective) substances.

Hence the question, is excessive drug use a problem or a symptom of another problem?
Baby Gauss(darren)
QUOTE (tikay+Feb 12 2008, 07:35 PM)
Maybe the paranoia that sometimes goes with getting high.
Tell us how Bush blew out your computer?

Hi Tikay,

Just after I made my last posting my map of the middle eastern region 'voting in the USA' thread, I was instantly banned. So I continued to post much hate at the administrator/moderators whatever, and about 5 minutes after I was banned, my PC went completely dead. What Bush and co. did was send a power harmonic on the mains supply to take out my PC. I'm banned until the year 2035, this is how high I've climbed the evolutionary ladder.

One thing for sure, it's possible to excess your PC without Internet connection.

What you have got to realise Tikay, is that governments around the world particularly Bush and co. have much higher technology available to themselves than they let on. For example, the current commercial technology that you see around you was designed possibly 50 years ago and not only that, they have worked out exactly what to feed to the populous.

Think of it like this, go to a car show room and ask the sales for a year 2050 merc sports, because the 2008 model is a load of crap, you get what I mean Tikay? It's called thinking ahead of time. People like THEY cannot think ahead, they can only think in the present and have great difficulty recalling the past and so they never learn anything. biggrin.gif

Cheers
Darren
Gehn
QUOTE (Baby Gauss(darren)+Feb 12 2008, 08:50 PM)
Hi Tikay,

Just after I made my last posting my map of the middle eastern region 'voting in the USA' thread, I was instantly banned. So I continued to post much hate at the administrator/moderators whatever, and about 5 minutes after I was banned, my PC went completely dead. What Bush and co. did was send a power harmonic on the mains supply to take out my PC. I'm banned until the year 2035, this is how high I've climbed the evolutionary ladder.


This is either a joke, or just plain paranoid schizophrenia laugh.gif . If Bush and co. can do that, then a lot of other people would have the same thing happening to them. Let me test:

BUSH IS A RETARDED ***** OF A ***HEAD WHO CANNOT READ, WRITE, OR THINK CLEARLY.

Hmmm... Nothing yet.

Which is more likely, power going out in your mains, or the Government selecting YOU to be cut out from power just so you can't slag off Bush?

- Gehn

Edit: Still nothing

Edit: Still nothing rolleyes.gif

Edit: Still nothing! Something must have gone wrong... laugh.gif

Edit: Nearly 5 mins now.... biggrin.gif

Edit: 5 mins. Time up. That's a definite "fail" laugh.gif
Baby Gauss(darren)
QUOTE (Gehn+Feb 12 2008, 08:55 PM)
This is either a joke, or just plain paranoid schizophrenia laugh.gif .

Ghen, I'm not paranoid nor am I schizophrenic, latter complain of voices, I don't get voices and therefore I am completely calm. In fact, I'm so calm, I have trouble shifting my arse around. Oh, and my psychiatrists, licks my arse clean after I've been for ***, okay? laugh.gif

Hmmmm, another 1/2 hour and I ganna start drinking about 6 pints of lager whilst listening to THE CULT for rockers,ravers and sinners. And yes, I hate Bush's christain god with an absolute passion. laugh.gif

Cheers
Darren
"THEY"
I have a sudden need to hear Big Dumb Weirdo's technical complaint story again..........

Helloooooooooooo! BDW? Calling BDW!
gmilam
QUOTE (Baby Gauss(darren)+Feb 12 2008, 02:50 PM)
One thing for sure, it's possible to excess your PC without Internet connection.

Here's your problem....

Too much of anything is not good for you.

Everything in moderation.
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