This is something I've never really thought about until today. Do smarter people have an unfair advantage over the less intelligent? Obviously the better-educated/more intelligent might have better career choices, etc. But is the advantage from having a better education/higher level of intelligence an unfair one?
QUOTE (TheDoc+Jun 20 2008, 04:34 AM)
This is something I've never really thought about until today. Do smarter people have an unfair advantage over the less intelligent? Obviously the better-educated/more intelligent might have better career choices, etc. But is the advantage from having a better education/higher level of intelligence an unfair one?
They most definitely have an advantage... I would not say it's and unfair advantage though.
The terms fair and unfair imply an intelligence is at work. Nature is not unfair or fair, it just is what it is. No more no less.
FGG
They most definitely have an advantage... I would not say it's and unfair advantage though.
The terms fair and unfair imply an intelligence is at work. Nature is not unfair or fair, it just is what it is. No more no less.
FGG
Education or intelligence?
I don't know that either is an UNFAIR advantage... But they are by no means the same thing.
I don't know that either is an UNFAIR advantage... But they are by no means the same thing.
I would say that between the two education is closer to unfair. Personally I would classify neither as unfair.
Is anything really unfair? I suppose that if you start handing out the label unfair that anything could be considered unfair.
Is it unfair that some children die from complications involved in birth? Is it unfair that some children are born into abusive homes while others grow up in bright, cheerful surroundings?
Where do we draw the line?
Is anything really unfair? I suppose that if you start handing out the label unfair that anything could be considered unfair.
Is it unfair that some children die from complications involved in birth? Is it unfair that some children are born into abusive homes while others grow up in bright, cheerful surroundings?
Where do we draw the line?
In my view, extreme intelligence can be a handicap as often as an advantage, particularly given that there are many different kinds of intelligence, some of which are "in alignment" with societal norms and some of which are not. Those who are "out of alignment," I would suggest, can often become "victims" of what I term "discrimination on the basis of 'intellectual orientation'."
- RF
- RF
Everyone has the potential to be 'smart'. It is a question of allowing 'smartness' to flourish.
g.
g.
QUOTE (Raphie Frank+Jun 20 2008, 01:23 AM)
In my view, extreme intelligence can be a handicap as often as an advantage, particularly given that there are many different kinds of intelligence, some of which are "in alignment" with societal norms and some of which are not. Those who are "out of alignment," I would suggest, can often become "victims" of what I term "discrimination on the basis of 'intellectual orientation'."
- RF
Actually, not a bad argument. Think about it from evolutionary terms - mutations are selected for on the basis of fitness for the environment and ability to reproduce. While hyperintelligence may increase one's fitness for the environment, I think we can all see how it can significantly harm one's ability to reproduce.
- RF
Actually, not a bad argument. Think about it from evolutionary terms - mutations are selected for on the basis of fitness for the environment and ability to reproduce. While hyperintelligence may increase one's fitness for the environment, I think we can all see how it can significantly harm one's ability to reproduce.
QUOTE (Gorgeous+)
Everyone has the potential to be 'smart'. It is a question of allowing 'smartness' to flourish.
Unfortunately not true. Certain people simply do not possess the intellectual capacity to understand concepts above a high school level (my neighbor, for example.. great guy, but dumb as a pail of rocks). I do agree, though, that in a majority of cases, it is a case of lack of education, not lack of ability. If one is never exposed to higher concepts, one never has a chance to learn them.
Unfortunately not true. Certain people simply do not possess the intellectual capacity to understand concepts above a high school level (my neighbor, for example.. great guy, but dumb as a pail of rocks). I do agree, though, that in a majority of cases, it is a case of lack of education, not lack of ability. If one is never exposed to higher concepts, one never has a chance to learn them.
QUOTE (Dabeer+Jun 19 2008, 11:27 PM)
QUOTE (Gorgeous+)
Everyone has the potential to be 'smart'. It is a question of allowing 'smartness' to flourish.
Unfortunately not true. Certain people simply do not possess the intellectual capacity to understand concepts above a high school level (my neighbor, for example.. great guy, but dumb as a pail of rocks). I do agree, though, that in a majority of cases, it is a case of lack of education, not lack of ability. If one is never exposed to higher concepts, one never has a chance to learn them.
Depends upon your entirely subjective version of the word 'smart' then, doesn't it? If he is a 'great guy', what is unsmart about that?
It is not always a question of 'knowledge'. Just being can be a form of 'smartness'. For all our 'smartness', we are still polluting and arguing with each other.
g.
All in all, intelligence don't seem (to me) to have all that much to do with success.
Wholeheartedly agree. And one of the reasons, I think, is absence of emotional intelligence. The dumbest things Ive seen people do (and have done myself) were due to unmonitored emotions. That emotional fire starts up and intelligence goes out the window.
We are trained to use our minds but not our emotions. People who are successful in whatever field always seem to be under emotional self-control. And I don't mean being cold, unaffected. I mean knowing when to, and how much to, feel.
Unfortunately not true. Certain people simply do not possess the intellectual capacity to understand concepts above a high school level (my neighbor, for example.. great guy, but dumb as a pail of rocks). I do agree, though, that in a majority of cases, it is a case of lack of education, not lack of ability. If one is never exposed to higher concepts, one never has a chance to learn them.
Depends upon your entirely subjective version of the word 'smart' then, doesn't it? If he is a 'great guy', what is unsmart about that?
It is not always a question of 'knowledge'. Just being can be a form of 'smartness'. For all our 'smartness', we are still polluting and arguing with each other.
g.
I think it's unfair. It's also unfair to be born in the Sudan compared to being born in Canada.
I have no solutions, though. The best I can do is try to help people get as intelligent as possible.
I have no solutions, though. The best I can do is try to help people get as intelligent as possible.
QUOTE (FGG+)
Nature is not unfair or fair, it just is what it is.
Absolutely right. Fair and unfair are subjective terms.
However intelligence in itself is not enough to succeed. I know some pretty smart people who are not doing so well in their lives. I also know a few dumb people who are doing great, simply by their hard work and initiative.
It is a combination of effort and capability.
Absolutely right. Fair and unfair are subjective terms.
However intelligence in itself is not enough to succeed. I know some pretty smart people who are not doing so well in their lives. I also know a few dumb people who are doing great, simply by their hard work and initiative.
It is a combination of effort and capability.
QUOTE (vkamath+Jun 20 2008, 01:08 PM)
However intelligence in itself is not enough to succeed. I know some pretty smart people who are not doing so well in their lives. I also know a few dumb people who are doing great, simply by their hard work and initiative.
I got a really (really) high IQ, but I make less than $40k a year, an the only time I even feel particularly smart is when I deal with folks like the cranks here.
I know a guy who's got an even higher IQ than me, but he lives with his folks an can't hold a job fer more'n a month at a time. I know a girl what took remedial classes all throughout high school, scored under 100 on an IQ test, an currently makes about $100-120k a year, is married an has two kids.
O course, I know folk what do the opposite. My friend Oliver is an experimental physicist with a high IQ who's very well respected, draws a relatively hefty (dunno how much, though, at least half again what I make, prolly more) paycheck an is happily married. I also know a dude named Ben who's dumb as a box o rocks, livin on the streets.
All in all, intelligence don't seem (to me) to have all that much to do with success.
I got a really (really) high IQ, but I make less than $40k a year, an the only time I even feel particularly smart is when I deal with folks like the cranks here.
I know a guy who's got an even higher IQ than me, but he lives with his folks an can't hold a job fer more'n a month at a time. I know a girl what took remedial classes all throughout high school, scored under 100 on an IQ test, an currently makes about $100-120k a year, is married an has two kids.
O course, I know folk what do the opposite. My friend Oliver is an experimental physicist with a high IQ who's very well respected, draws a relatively hefty (dunno how much, though, at least half again what I make, prolly more) paycheck an is happily married. I also know a dude named Ben who's dumb as a box o rocks, livin on the streets.
All in all, intelligence don't seem (to me) to have all that much to do with success.
QUOTE (MjolnirPants+Jun 20 2008, 10:05 AM)
All in all, intelligence don't seem (to me) to have all that much to do with success.
Wholeheartedly agree. And one of the reasons, I think, is absence of emotional intelligence. The dumbest things Ive seen people do (and have done myself) were due to unmonitored emotions. That emotional fire starts up and intelligence goes out the window.
We are trained to use our minds but not our emotions. People who are successful in whatever field always seem to be under emotional self-control. And I don't mean being cold, unaffected. I mean knowing when to, and how much to, feel.
Who determines what 'success' means?
g.
g.
QUOTE (MjolnirPants+)
I got a really (really) high IQ, but I make less than $40k a year, an the only time I even feel particularly smart is when I deal with folks like the cranks here.
I know a guy who's got an even higher IQ than me, but he lives with his folks an can't hold a job fer more'n a month at a time. I know a girl what took remedial classes all throughout high school, scored under 100 on an IQ test, an currently makes about $100-120k a year, is married an has two kids.
O course, I know folk what do the opposite. My friend Oliver is an experimental physicist with a high IQ who's very well respected, draws a relatively hefty (dunno how much, though, at least half again what I make, prolly more) paycheck an is happily married. I also know a dude named Ben who's dumb as a box o rocks, livin on the streets.
More examples...
I have a relative who has a PHD and used to work for NASA in the 80s which he quit after a disagreement with his boss. He was working in a reputed software firm till recently. He was layed off as the company he was working for was cutting costs. He is currently unemployed and living with his mother.
I know a guy who's got an even higher IQ than me, but he lives with his folks an can't hold a job fer more'n a month at a time. I know a girl what took remedial classes all throughout high school, scored under 100 on an IQ test, an currently makes about $100-120k a year, is married an has two kids.
O course, I know folk what do the opposite. My friend Oliver is an experimental physicist with a high IQ who's very well respected, draws a relatively hefty (dunno how much, though, at least half again what I make, prolly more) paycheck an is happily married. I also know a dude named Ben who's dumb as a box o rocks, livin on the streets.
More examples...
I have a relative who has a PHD and used to work for NASA in the 80s which he quit after a disagreement with his boss. He was working in a reputed software firm till recently. He was layed off as the company he was working for was cutting costs. He is currently unemployed and living with his mother.
QUOTE (MjolnirPants+)
All in all, intelligence don't seem (to me) to have all that much to do with success.
Absolutely.
I'm sure a lot of us here have experienced this, particularly in junior and senior high school. While some people called me, "the brain" and wanted help studying, others shunned me, calling me "smartypants" or used other similar, inane rants. I found my outlets in concert band and as president of the Chess Club, among the others who appreciated the merits of intelligence.
If you associate with others at your level, the ideas and consciousness flow, like in the book by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi (pronounced, "chick sent me high") titled, "Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience."
It is a good read! Here's a review:
You have heard about how a musician loses herself in her music, how a painter becomes one with the process of painting. In work, sport, conversation or in the pursuit of hobbies, you have experienced, yourself, the suspension of time, the freedom of complete absorption in activity. This is "flow," an experience that is at once demanding and rewarding, an experience that Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi demonstrates is one of the most enjoyable and valuable experiences a person can have. The exhaustive case studies, controlled experiments and innumerable references to historical figures, philosophers and scientists through the ages prove Csikszentmihalyi's point that flow is a singularly productive and desirable state. But the implications for its application to society are what make the book revolutionary. From the Library Journal: "Aristotle observed 2,300 years ago that more than anything, men and women seek happiness. Csikszentmihalyi (former Head of the Department of Psychology, Univ. of Chicago) has for 25 years made similar observations regarding "flow," a field of behavioral science examining connections between satisfaction and daily activities. A flow state ensues when one is engaged in self-controlled, goal-related, meaningful actions. Data regarding flow were collected on thousands of individuals, from mountain climbers to chess players. This thoroughly researched study is an intriguing look at the age-old problem of the pursuit of happiness and how, through conscious effort, we may more easily attain it."
See also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Csikszentmihalyi and the links within.
Good one!
Also, surely achieving what you set out to achieve must be considered 'success', regardless of whichever 'field' you operate in?
Are people often very mindful of what they are trying to achieve?
g.
That's why I was careful to say successful physicist, golfer, guitar player and so on. Hanging out on this board for a few months a person has to learn something, even if its just through osmosis.
As we say, in my profession: We order recruits to attend all training sessions because who knows, they might learn something by accident.
Absolutely.
QUOTE (Gorgeous+)
Who determines what 'success' means?
Good question. According to me - If you are happy you are successful.
Good question. According to me - If you are happy you are successful.
Einstein was a successful physicist
Tiger Woods is a successful golfer
DeNero is a successful actor
Hendrix was a successful guitar player
The guy who works on my car is a successful auto mechanic
In what they cared about, what they involved their emotions in, they are successful.
Of course, there are other definitions.
Tiger Woods is a successful golfer
DeNero is a successful actor
Hendrix was a successful guitar player
The guy who works on my car is a successful auto mechanic
In what they cared about, what they involved their emotions in, they are successful.
Of course, there are other definitions.
QUOTE (orestis+Jun 20 2008, 03:16 PM)
Einstein was a successful physicist
Tiger Woods is a successful golfer
DeNero is a successful actor
Hendrix was a successful guitar player
The guy who works on my car is a successful auto mechanic
In what they cared about, what they involved their emotions in, they are successful.
Of course, there are other definitions.
Well, that's a pretty good one, but it overlooks the fact that there are varyin degrees o success.
Fer instance, I would say Albert Einstein was a more successful physicist than Paul Peter Ewald. Why? Einstein recieved one o the highest honors in his field, a nobel prize. Einstein is a more widely known name. Einstein made a greater impact upon modern physics than Ewald.
Same holds true fer Hendrix vs Steve Vai, which is a better example, IMHO. Most guitarists ya ask nowadays would say that Vai was the more proficient (see intelligent) player, yet Hendrix's name is more widely recognized an Hendrix albums sell more than Vai's. Hendrix likely (this one is hard to say with certainty, but it's prolly true, given what I know bout modern music) influenced more modern guitar players, thus contributin more to the field, despite a relative lack o that which we would expect higher intelligence to produce; proficiency.
It's really hard to say what success is, by yer post, maintainin a career makes ya successful, an I don't rightly disagree. What's easier an more accurate by far is to say one guy's more successful than another.
Tiger Woods is a successful golfer
DeNero is a successful actor
Hendrix was a successful guitar player
The guy who works on my car is a successful auto mechanic
In what they cared about, what they involved their emotions in, they are successful.
Of course, there are other definitions.
Well, that's a pretty good one, but it overlooks the fact that there are varyin degrees o success.
Fer instance, I would say Albert Einstein was a more successful physicist than Paul Peter Ewald. Why? Einstein recieved one o the highest honors in his field, a nobel prize. Einstein is a more widely known name. Einstein made a greater impact upon modern physics than Ewald.
Same holds true fer Hendrix vs Steve Vai, which is a better example, IMHO. Most guitarists ya ask nowadays would say that Vai was the more proficient (see intelligent) player, yet Hendrix's name is more widely recognized an Hendrix albums sell more than Vai's. Hendrix likely (this one is hard to say with certainty, but it's prolly true, given what I know bout modern music) influenced more modern guitar players, thus contributin more to the field, despite a relative lack o that which we would expect higher intelligence to produce; proficiency.
It's really hard to say what success is, by yer post, maintainin a career makes ya successful, an I don't rightly disagree. What's easier an more accurate by far is to say one guy's more successful than another.
QUOTE
In my view, extreme intelligence can be a handicap as often as an advantage, particularly given that there are many different kinds of intelligence, some of which are "in alignment" with societal norms and some of which are not. Those who are "out of alignment," I would suggest, can often become "victims" of what I term "discrimination on the basis of 'intellectual orientation'."
Raphie Frank quote. I'm sure a lot of us here have experienced this, particularly in junior and senior high school. While some people called me, "the brain" and wanted help studying, others shunned me, calling me "smartypants" or used other similar, inane rants. I found my outlets in concert band and as president of the Chess Club, among the others who appreciated the merits of intelligence.
If you associate with others at your level, the ideas and consciousness flow, like in the book by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi (pronounced, "chick sent me high") titled, "Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience."It is a good read! Here's a review:
You have heard about how a musician loses herself in her music, how a painter becomes one with the process of painting. In work, sport, conversation or in the pursuit of hobbies, you have experienced, yourself, the suspension of time, the freedom of complete absorption in activity. This is "flow," an experience that is at once demanding and rewarding, an experience that Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi demonstrates is one of the most enjoyable and valuable experiences a person can have. The exhaustive case studies, controlled experiments and innumerable references to historical figures, philosophers and scientists through the ages prove Csikszentmihalyi's point that flow is a singularly productive and desirable state. But the implications for its application to society are what make the book revolutionary. From the Library Journal: "Aristotle observed 2,300 years ago that more than anything, men and women seek happiness. Csikszentmihalyi (former Head of the Department of Psychology, Univ. of Chicago) has for 25 years made similar observations regarding "flow," a field of behavioral science examining connections between satisfaction and daily activities. A flow state ensues when one is engaged in self-controlled, goal-related, meaningful actions. Data regarding flow were collected on thousands of individuals, from mountain climbers to chess players. This thoroughly researched study is an intriguing look at the age-old problem of the pursuit of happiness and how, through conscious effort, we may more easily attain it."
See also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Csikszentmihalyi and the links within.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| In my view, extreme intelligence can be a handicap as often as an advantage, particularly given that there are many different kinds of intelligence, some of which are "in alignment" with societal norms and some of which are not. Those who are "out of alignment," I would suggest, can often become "victims" of what I term "discrimination on the basis of 'intellectual orientation'." |
Raphie Frank quote.
I'm sure a lot of us here have experienced this, particularly in junior and senior high school. While some people called me, "the brain" and wanted help studying, others shunned me, calling me "smartypants" or used other similar, inane rants. I found my outlets in concert band and as president of the Chess Club, among the others who appreciated the merits of intelligence. If you associate with others at your level, the ideas and consciousness flow, like in the book by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi (pronounced, "chick sent me high") titled, "Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience."
It is a good read! Here's a review:
You have heard about how a musician loses herself in her music, how a painter becomes one with the process of painting. In work, sport, conversation or in the pursuit of hobbies, you have experienced, yourself, the suspension of time, the freedom of complete absorption in activity. This is "flow," an experience that is at once demanding and rewarding, an experience that Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi demonstrates is one of the most enjoyable and valuable experiences a person can have. The exhaustive case studies, controlled experiments and innumerable references to historical figures, philosophers and scientists through the ages prove Csikszentmihalyi's point that flow is a singularly productive and desirable state. But the implications for its application to society are what make the book revolutionary. From the Library Journal: "Aristotle observed 2,300 years ago that more than anything, men and women seek happiness. Csikszentmihalyi (former Head of the Department of Psychology, Univ. of Chicago) has for 25 years made similar observations regarding "flow," a field of behavioral science examining connections between satisfaction and daily activities. A flow state ensues when one is engaged in self-controlled, goal-related, meaningful actions. Data regarding flow were collected on thousands of individuals, from mountain climbers to chess players. This thoroughly researched study is an intriguing look at the age-old problem of the pursuit of happiness and how, through conscious effort, we may more easily attain it."
See also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Csikszentmihalyi and the links within.
We are trained to use our minds but not our emotions. People who are successful in whatever field always seem to be under emotional self-control. And I don't mean being cold, unaffected. I mean knowing when to, and how much to, feel.
I'm sure a lot of us here have experienced this, particularly in junior and senior high school. While some people called me, "the brain" and wanted help studying, others shunned me, calling me "smartypants" or used other similar, inane rants. I found my outlets in concert band and as president of the Chess Club, among the others who appreciated the merits of intelligence.
If you associate with others at your level, the ideas and consciousness flow, like in the book by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi (pronounced, "chick sent me high") titled, "Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience."It is a good read! Here's a review:
You have heard about how a musician loses herself in her music, how a painter becomes one with the process of painting. In work, sport, conversation or in the pursuit of hobbies, you have experienced, yourself, the suspension of time, the freedom of complete absorption in activity. This is "flow," an experience that is at once demanding and rewarding, an experience that Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi demonstrates is one of the most enjoyable and valuable experiences a person can have. The exhaustive case studies, controlled experiments and innumerable references to historical figures, philosophers and scientists through the ages prove Csikszentmihalyi's point that flow is a singularly productive and desirable state. But the implications for its application to society are what make the book revolutionary. From the Library Journal: "Aristotle observed 2,300 years ago that more than anything, men and women seek happiness. Csikszentmihalyi (former Head of the Department of Psychology, Univ. of Chicago) has for 25 years made similar observations regarding "flow," a field of behavioral science examining connections between satisfaction and daily activities. A flow state ensues when one is engaged in self-controlled, goal-related, meaningful actions. Data regarding flow were collected on thousands of individuals, from mountain climbers to chess players. This thoroughly researched study is an intriguing look at the age-old problem of the pursuit of happiness and how, through conscious effort, we may more easily attain it."
See also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Csikszentmihalyi and the links within.
We are trained to use our minds but not our emotions. People who are successful in whatever field always seem to be under emotional self-control. And I don't mean being cold, unaffected. I mean knowing when to, and how much to, feel.
orestis quote.
The importance of emotional intelligence or the "E.Q." (Emotional Quotient) cannot be overemphasized. Self-control is the key to mastery in this realm. I have always found it very easy and have seldom experienced wild "mood swings" and such, but have witnessed them in others all too often.
For a few books on emotional intelligence see: http://www.bookfinder.com/search/?author=&...sic&st=sr&ac=qr
The importance of emotional intelligence or the "E.Q." (Emotional Quotient) cannot be overemphasized. Self-control is the key to mastery in this realm. I have always found it very easy and have seldom experienced wild "mood swings" and such, but have witnessed them in others all too often.
For a few books on emotional intelligence see: http://www.bookfinder.com/search/?author=&...sic&st=sr&ac=qr
QUOTE
If you are happy you are successful.
Good one!
Also, surely achieving what you set out to achieve must be considered 'success', regardless of whichever 'field' you operate in?
Are people often very mindful of what they are trying to achieve?
g.
QUOTE (MjolnirPants+Jun 20 2008, 10:54 AM)
Most guitarists ya ask nowadays would say that Vai was the more proficient (see intelligent) player,
Does proficiency = intelligence?
As a musician, I'd have to say that proficiency has more to do with time devoted to practicing.
Does proficiency = intelligence?
As a musician, I'd have to say that proficiency has more to do with time devoted to practicing.
Your pain is your pain and your gain is your gain. 
QUOTE (gmilam+Jun 20 2008, 05:32 PM)
Does proficiency = intelligence?
As a musician, I'd have to say that proficiency has more to do with time devoted to practicing.
Totally agree - takes years and years to pull off a Yngwie Malmsteen-esque lick that make your fellow (peer group) guitarists wanting to trash their axes.
Been there, done it - however it's a bloody hard dedicated slog - although well worth it, in terms of their total and absolute demoralization.
As a musician, I'd have to say that proficiency has more to do with time devoted to practicing.
Totally agree - takes years and years to pull off a Yngwie Malmsteen-esque lick that make your fellow (peer group) guitarists wanting to trash their axes.
Been there, done it - however it's a bloody hard dedicated slog - although well worth it, in terms of their total and absolute demoralization.
This is just to keep this topic up here instead of the one by the poster child of neither IQ or EQ
QUOTE (orestis+Jun 20 2008, 03:16 PM)
Hendrix was a successful guitar player
In what they cared about, what they involved their emotions in, they are successful.
Success is not synonymous with happiness. Hendrix, Joplin, Morrison, Moon, …Spears, Winehouse; have all battled with their own demons. And in some cases lost. As we all have in some cases. Intellectual capacity (and talent) enables one to be successful, not necessarily happy.
In what they cared about, what they involved their emotions in, they are successful.
Success is not synonymous with happiness. Hendrix, Joplin, Morrison, Moon, …Spears, Winehouse; have all battled with their own demons. And in some cases lost. As we all have in some cases. Intellectual capacity (and talent) enables one to be successful, not necessarily happy.
QUOTE (gmilam+Jun 20 2008, 05:32 PM)
Does proficiency = intelligence?
No. Jes like intelligence != success.
BUT... Intelligence does help make ya successful. It jes ain't the only variable in the equation. That bein said, intelligence should help ya develop proficiency faster.
I know that despite my wide rangin artistic proclivities an the subsequent lack o time to devote to any one hobby (drawin, paintin, writin, buildin muscle cars, playin music, etc...) I managed to surpass many folk with the same number o years o experience, an more time spent practicin, due to me havin less trouble comprehendin the fundamentals an figurin out ways o integratin 'em into my techniques. O course, there are also a few folk I know what beat me, despite not havin an IQ on par with me, so it ain't a law, jes a rule o thumb, jes like the point o FGG's I was agreein with earlier. Intelligence ain't the key to success. It certainly helps, though.
Usin meself as an example again, I can say I'm stuck in the job I got now cause I preferred to spend my time engagin in my various hobbies, rather than studyin jes one in school an makin a career out o it.
No. Jes like intelligence != success.
BUT... Intelligence does help make ya successful. It jes ain't the only variable in the equation. That bein said, intelligence should help ya develop proficiency faster.
I know that despite my wide rangin artistic proclivities an the subsequent lack o time to devote to any one hobby (drawin, paintin, writin, buildin muscle cars, playin music, etc...) I managed to surpass many folk with the same number o years o experience, an more time spent practicin, due to me havin less trouble comprehendin the fundamentals an figurin out ways o integratin 'em into my techniques. O course, there are also a few folk I know what beat me, despite not havin an IQ on par with me, so it ain't a law, jes a rule o thumb, jes like the point o FGG's I was agreein with earlier. Intelligence ain't the key to success. It certainly helps, though.
QUOTE
As a musician, I'd have to say that proficiency has more to do with time devoted to practicing.
Usin meself as an example again, I can say I'm stuck in the job I got now cause I preferred to spend my time engagin in my various hobbies, rather than studyin jes one in school an makin a career out o it.
“To laugh often and much; to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children...to leave the world a better place...to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived. This is to have succeeded.”
Ralph Waldo Emerson
g.
Ralph Waldo Emerson
g.
QUOTE (Gorgeous+Jun 20 2008, 07:18 PM)
“To laugh often and much; to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children...to leave the world a better place...to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived. This is to have succeeded.”
Ralph Waldo Emerson
g.
Cool, Emerson knew.
Ralph Waldo Emerson
g.
Cool, Emerson knew.
QUOTE (Derek1148+Jun 20 2008, 02:09 PM)
Success is not synonymous with happiness. Hendrix, Joplin, Morrison, Moon, …Spears, Winehouse; have all battled with their own demons. And in some cases lost. As we all have in some cases. Intellectual capacity (and talent) enables one to be successful, not necessarily happy.
That's why I was careful to say successful physicist, golfer, guitar player and so on. Hanging out on this board for a few months a person has to learn something, even if its just through osmosis.
That's why I was careful to say successful physicist, golfer, guitar player and so on. Hanging out on this board for a few months a person has to learn something, even if its just through osmosis.
QUOTE (orestis+Jun 20 2008, 07:51 PM)
That's why I was careful to say successful physicist, golfer, guitar player and so on. Hanging out on this board for a few months a person has to learn something, even if its just through osmosis.
As we say, in my profession: We order recruits to attend all training sessions because who knows, they might learn something by accident.
QUOTE (gmilam+)
Education or intelligence?
I don't know that either is an UNFAIR advantage... But they are by no means the same thing.
Well, yeah. One can have the highest education possible and still be a common-sense lacking idiot.
I don't know that either is an UNFAIR advantage... But they are by no means the same thing.
Well, yeah. One can have the highest education possible and still be a common-sense lacking idiot.
QUOTE (DuzmA+)
Is anything really unfair? I suppose that if you start handing out the label unfair that anything could be considered unfair.
Is it unfair that some children die from complications involved in birth? Is it unfair that some children are born into abusive homes while others grow up in bright, cheerful surroundings?
Where do we draw the line?
I suppose those two examples could be considered unfair, but you have a point: Where do we draw the line? How far can the label "unfair" be pushed? In the context of my original question, I don't think that "unfair" can be applied to levels of intelligence. If one person turns out more intelligent, it may be a quirk of fate, yes. It may not be unfair.
Is it unfair that some children die from complications involved in birth? Is it unfair that some children are born into abusive homes while others grow up in bright, cheerful surroundings?
Where do we draw the line?
I suppose those two examples could be considered unfair, but you have a point: Where do we draw the line? How far can the label "unfair" be pushed? In the context of my original question, I don't think that "unfair" can be applied to levels of intelligence. If one person turns out more intelligent, it may be a quirk of fate, yes. It may not be unfair.
QUOTE (Gorgeous+)
Everyone has the potential to be 'smart'. It is a question of allowing 'smartness' to flourish.
QUOTE (Dabeer+)
Unfortunately not true. Certain people simply do not possess the intellectual capacity to understand concepts above a high school level (my neighbor, for example.. great guy, but dumb as a pail of rocks). I do agree, though, that in a majority of cases, it is a case of lack of education, not lack of ability. If one is never exposed to higher concepts, one never has a chance to learn them.
But isn't "intellectual capacity" directly related to being exposed to higher concepts? When exposed to higher concepts, doesn't one's "intellectual capacity" increase? Obviously this is always the case, but doesn't it hold true for most?
But isn't "intellectual capacity" directly related to being exposed to higher concepts? When exposed to higher concepts, doesn't one's "intellectual capacity" increase? Obviously this is always the case, but doesn't it hold true for most?
QUOTE (Derek1148 +)
Success is not synonymous with happiness. Hendrix, Joplin, Morrison, Moon, …Spears, Winehouse; have all battled with their own demons. And in some cases lost. As we all have in some cases. Intellectual capacity (and talent) enables one to be successful, not necessarily happy.
You are looking only at success in profession.
Happiness is critical for being successful in life. Just my opinion.
You are looking only at success in profession.
Happiness is critical for being successful in life. Just my opinion.
Hi All,
I don't know "directly" about "smartness" and it would be hard to quantify since there are different forms of it. High IQ does not equate to "smart"... necessarily. If you are discussing "high achievers" then the adage "greed is good" seems to bring out the "best" in some people with no moral restraints. Regarding success in "the Public Service" and large corporations... It is unfortunately a truism that in a politically correct institution (... the Public Service is indeed an "Institution") sociopaths will get promoted rapidly because of the way the Public Service works. Nobody at the lower ranks want a sociopath in their workgroup and you can't say nasty things about them can you? ... so they are usually "encouraged" to leave through "promotion... and they will get shining accolades from their erstwhile "working mates" to boot... it helps to get rid of them. So you can be a complete b* and make it up that "ladder" and you don't need that much intelligence... but maybe they are quite "smart". There are only three things the sociopath needs to remember "me"... "me"... and of course "me". On the other hand high intelligence in the Public Sector is a trait you do not want to be "branded with" since it only causes resentment among your peers. They will then take every opportunity to bring the "smarty pants" grief and giggle about it when they "fall". They threaten the rest of the working community and their aspirations including the sociopaths (who have all naturally found their way to the top). This is also confirmed by recent research.
Cheers
I don't know "directly" about "smartness" and it would be hard to quantify since there are different forms of it. High IQ does not equate to "smart"... necessarily. If you are discussing "high achievers" then the adage "greed is good" seems to bring out the "best" in some people with no moral restraints. Regarding success in "the Public Service" and large corporations... It is unfortunately a truism that in a politically correct institution (... the Public Service is indeed an "Institution") sociopaths will get promoted rapidly because of the way the Public Service works. Nobody at the lower ranks want a sociopath in their workgroup and you can't say nasty things about them can you? ... so they are usually "encouraged" to leave through "promotion... and they will get shining accolades from their erstwhile "working mates" to boot... it helps to get rid of them. So you can be a complete b* and make it up that "ladder" and you don't need that much intelligence... but maybe they are quite "smart". There are only three things the sociopath needs to remember "me"... "me"... and of course "me". On the other hand high intelligence in the Public Sector is a trait you do not want to be "branded with" since it only causes resentment among your peers. They will then take every opportunity to bring the "smarty pants" grief and giggle about it when they "fall". They threaten the rest of the working community and their aspirations including the sociopaths (who have all naturally found their way to the top). This is also confirmed by recent research.
Cheers
QUOTE (vkamath+)
Happiness is critical for being successful in life. Just my opinion.
vkamath: That would depend upon your definition of "happiness".
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/happy
Main Entry: hap·py
Pronunciation: \ˈha-pē\
Function: adjective
Inflected Form(s): hap·pi·er; hap·pi·est
Etymology: Middle English, from hap
Date: 14th century
1: favored by luck or fortune : fortunate <a happy coincidence>
2: notably fitting, effective, or well adapted : felicitous <a happy choice>
3 a: enjoying or characterized by well-being and contentment <is the happiest person I know> <a happy childhood> b: expressing, reflecting, or suggestive of happiness <a happy ending> c: glad, pleased <I'm happy to meet you> d: having or marked by an atmosphere of good fellowship : friendly <a happy office>
4 a: characterized by a dazed irresponsible state <a punch-happy boxer> b: impulsively or obsessively quick to use or do something <trigger-happy> c: enthusiastic about something to the point of obsession : obsessed <education-conscious and statistic-happy
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search...searchmode=none
happy
1340, "lucky," from hap "chance, fortune" (see haphazard), sense of "very glad" first recorded c.1390. Ousted O.E. eadig (from ead "wealth, riches") and gesælig, which has become silly. O.E. bliðe "happy" survives as blithe. From Gk. to Ir., a great majority of the European words for "happy" at first meant "lucky." An exception is Welsh, where the word used first meant "wise." Used in World War II and after as a suffix (e.g. bomb-happy, flak-happy) expressing "dazed or frazzled from stress." Happiness is first recorded 1530. Happy hour "early evening period of discount drinks and free hors-d'oeuvres at a bar" is first recorded 1961. Happy-go-lucky is from 1672. Happy as a clam (1636) was originally happy as a clam in the mud at high tide, when it can't be dug up and eaten.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hap
Main Entry: 1hap
Pronunciation: \ˈhap\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old Norse happ good luck; akin to Old English gehæp suitable, Old Church Slavic kobĭ lot, fate
Date: 13th century
1 : happening 1
2 : chance, fortune
Although "hap"(luck, chance, fortune) ofttimes plays a role in "success", this is not necessarily always the case. I think that the old adage "When the going gets tough, the tough get going" pretty adequately demonstrates "the other side of the coin". It has also been said that "The school of hard knocks is the best school, but it is also the most expensive". Just something to think about. Good night.
vkamath: That would depend upon your definition of "happiness".
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/happy
Main Entry: hap·py
Pronunciation: \ˈha-pē\
Function: adjective
Inflected Form(s): hap·pi·er; hap·pi·est
Etymology: Middle English, from hap
Date: 14th century
1: favored by luck or fortune : fortunate <a happy coincidence>
2: notably fitting, effective, or well adapted : felicitous <a happy choice>
3 a: enjoying or characterized by well-being and contentment <is the happiest person I know> <a happy childhood> b: expressing, reflecting, or suggestive of happiness <a happy ending> c: glad, pleased <I'm happy to meet you> d: having or marked by an atmosphere of good fellowship : friendly <a happy office>
4 a: characterized by a dazed irresponsible state <a punch-happy boxer> b: impulsively or obsessively quick to use or do something <trigger-happy> c: enthusiastic about something to the point of obsession : obsessed <education-conscious and statistic-happy
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search...searchmode=none
happy
1340, "lucky," from hap "chance, fortune" (see haphazard), sense of "very glad" first recorded c.1390. Ousted O.E. eadig (from ead "wealth, riches") and gesælig, which has become silly. O.E. bliðe "happy" survives as blithe. From Gk. to Ir., a great majority of the European words for "happy" at first meant "lucky." An exception is Welsh, where the word used first meant "wise." Used in World War II and after as a suffix (e.g. bomb-happy, flak-happy) expressing "dazed or frazzled from stress." Happiness is first recorded 1530. Happy hour "early evening period of discount drinks and free hors-d'oeuvres at a bar" is first recorded 1961. Happy-go-lucky is from 1672. Happy as a clam (1636) was originally happy as a clam in the mud at high tide, when it can't be dug up and eaten.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hap
Main Entry: 1hap
Pronunciation: \ˈhap\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old Norse happ good luck; akin to Old English gehæp suitable, Old Church Slavic kobĭ lot, fate
Date: 13th century
1 : happening 1
2 : chance, fortune
Although "hap"(luck, chance, fortune) ofttimes plays a role in "success", this is not necessarily always the case. I think that the old adage "When the going gets tough, the tough get going" pretty adequately demonstrates "the other side of the coin". It has also been said that "The school of hard knocks is the best school, but it is also the most expensive". Just something to think about. Good night.
QUOTE (Good Elf+Jun 20 2008, 10:49 PM)
Hi All,
I don't know "directly" about "smartness" and it would be hard to quantify since there are different forms of it. High IQ does not equate to "smart"... necessarily. If you are discussing "high achievers" then the adage "greed is good" seems to bring out the "best" in some people with no moral restraints. Regarding success in "the Public Service" and large corporations... It is unfortunately a truism that in a politically correct institution (... the Public Service is indeed an "Institution") sociopaths will get promoted rapidly because of the way the Public Service works. Nobody at the lower ranks want a sociopath in their workgroup and you can't say nasty things about them can you? ... so they are usually "encouraged" to leave through "promotion... and they will get shining accolades from their erstwhile "working mates" to boot... it helps to get rid of them. So you can be a complete b* and make it up that "ladder" and you don't need that much intelligence... but maybe they are quite "smart". There are only three things the sociopath needs to remember "me"... "me"... and of course "me". On the other hand high intelligence in the Public Sector is a trait you do not want to be "branded with" since it only causes resentment among your peers. They will then take every opportunity to bring the "smarty pants" grief and giggle about it when they "fall". They threaten the rest of the working community and their aspirations including the sociopaths (who have all naturally found their way to the top). This is also confirmed by recent research.
Cheers
Maybe success is the wrong word to connect to intelligence. How about ability? Intelligence, powered by emotion, creates ability. That would work well in golfing and music and worming ones way through corporate hierarchies.
I don't know "directly" about "smartness" and it would be hard to quantify since there are different forms of it. High IQ does not equate to "smart"... necessarily. If you are discussing "high achievers" then the adage "greed is good" seems to bring out the "best" in some people with no moral restraints. Regarding success in "the Public Service" and large corporations... It is unfortunately a truism that in a politically correct institution (... the Public Service is indeed an "Institution") sociopaths will get promoted rapidly because of the way the Public Service works. Nobody at the lower ranks want a sociopath in their workgroup and you can't say nasty things about them can you? ... so they are usually "encouraged" to leave through "promotion... and they will get shining accolades from their erstwhile "working mates" to boot... it helps to get rid of them. So you can be a complete b* and make it up that "ladder" and you don't need that much intelligence... but maybe they are quite "smart". There are only three things the sociopath needs to remember "me"... "me"... and of course "me". On the other hand high intelligence in the Public Sector is a trait you do not want to be "branded with" since it only causes resentment among your peers. They will then take every opportunity to bring the "smarty pants" grief and giggle about it when they "fall". They threaten the rest of the working community and their aspirations including the sociopaths (who have all naturally found their way to the top). This is also confirmed by recent research.
Cheers
Maybe success is the wrong word to connect to intelligence. How about ability? Intelligence, powered by emotion, creates ability. That would work well in golfing and music and worming ones way through corporate hierarchies.
QUOTE (newguy+)
vkamath: That would depend upon your definition of "happiness".
I was thinking of definition 3 given below
Although "hap"(luck, chance, fortune) ofttimes plays a role in "success", this is not necessarily always the case. I think that the old adage "When the going gets tough, the tough get going" pretty adequately demonstrates "the other side of the coin".
My point was Not that happiness is a pre-requisite for success. How do you define a person's success? I think, it is by how happy they are. It doesn't matter if someone has a lot of money or professional success or high intelligence, if they are not happy.
I was thinking of definition 3 given below
QUOTE
3 a: enjoying or characterized by well-being and contentment <is the happiest person I know> <a happy childhood> b: expressing, reflecting, or suggestive of happiness <a happy ending> c: glad, pleased <I'm happy to meet you> d: having or marked by an atmosphere of good fellowship : friendly <a happy office>
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| 3 a: enjoying or characterized by well-being and contentment <is the happiest person I know> <a happy childhood> b: expressing, reflecting, or suggestive of happiness <a happy ending> c: glad, pleased <I'm happy to meet you> d: having or marked by an atmosphere of good fellowship : friendly <a happy office> |
Although "hap"(luck, chance, fortune) ofttimes plays a role in "success", this is not necessarily always the case. I think that the old adage "When the going gets tough, the tough get going" pretty adequately demonstrates "the other side of the coin".
My point was Not that happiness is a pre-requisite for success. How do you define a person's success? I think, it is by how happy they are. It doesn't matter if someone has a lot of money or professional success or high intelligence, if they are not happy.
QUOTE (Good Elf+Jun 21 2008, 02:49 AM)
Hi All,
I don't know "directly" about "smartness" and it would be hard to quantify since there are different forms of it. High IQ does not equate to "smart"... necessarily. If you are discussing "high achievers" then the adage "greed is good" seems to bring out the "best" in some people with no moral restraints. Regarding success in "the Public Service" and large corporations... It is unfortunately a truism that in a politically correct institution (... the Public Service is indeed an "Institution") sociopaths will get promoted rapidly because of the way the Public Service works. Nobody at the lower ranks want a sociopath in their workgroup and you can't say nasty things about them can you? ... so they are usually "encouraged" to leave through "promotion... and they will get shining accolades from their erstwhile "working mates" to boot... it helps to get rid of them. So you can be a complete b* and make it up that "ladder" and you don't need that much intelligence... but maybe they are quite "smart". There are only three things the sociopath needs to remember "me"... "me"... and of course "me". On the other hand high intelligence in the Public Sector is a trait you do not want to be "branded with" since it only causes resentment among your peers. They will then take every opportunity to bring the "smarty pants" grief and giggle about it when they "fall". They threaten the rest of the working community and their aspirations including the sociopaths (who have all naturally found their way to the top). This is also confirmed by recent research.
Cheers
Could you provide some references relative to the "recent research?"
I don't know "directly" about "smartness" and it would be hard to quantify since there are different forms of it. High IQ does not equate to "smart"... necessarily. If you are discussing "high achievers" then the adage "greed is good" seems to bring out the "best" in some people with no moral restraints. Regarding success in "the Public Service" and large corporations... It is unfortunately a truism that in a politically correct institution (... the Public Service is indeed an "Institution") sociopaths will get promoted rapidly because of the way the Public Service works. Nobody at the lower ranks want a sociopath in their workgroup and you can't say nasty things about them can you? ... so they are usually "encouraged" to leave through "promotion... and they will get shining accolades from their erstwhile "working mates" to boot... it helps to get rid of them. So you can be a complete b* and make it up that "ladder" and you don't need that much intelligence... but maybe they are quite "smart". There are only three things the sociopath needs to remember "me"... "me"... and of course "me". On the other hand high intelligence in the Public Sector is a trait you do not want to be "branded with" since it only causes resentment among your peers. They will then take every opportunity to bring the "smarty pants" grief and giggle about it when they "fall". They threaten the rest of the working community and their aspirations including the sociopaths (who have all naturally found their way to the top). This is also confirmed by recent research.
Cheers
Could you provide some references relative to the "recent research?"
QUOTE (vkamath+Jun 21 2008, 02:16 AM)
Happiness is critical for being successful in life. Just my opinion.
If happiness is the sole criteria, than one could seek that result through the use of narcotics. Success in life might be more along the lines of accomplishing one’s goals. Regardless of the “happiness factor.”
If happiness is the sole criteria, than one could seek that result through the use of narcotics. Success in life might be more along the lines of accomplishing one’s goals. Regardless of the “happiness factor.”
QUOTE (Derek1148+Jun 21 2008, 04:17 AM)
If happiness is the sole criteria, than one could seek that result through the use of narcotics. Success in life might be more along the lines of accomplishing one’s goals. Regardless of the “happiness factor.”
Isn't one's "happiness factor" directly related to the accomplishement of one's goals?
Isn't one's "happiness factor" directly related to the accomplishement of one's goals?
Hi Derek1148,
QUOTE (Derek1148+)
Could you provide some references relative to the "recent research?"
I am not a regular follower of psychopathology so I have no notes and I am certainly no "expert"... just a casual "course sitter" mouthing what I have been told. I have seen a recent article on a Science News site on this precise topic. I was also advised by a psychologist of these traits as part of an "assertiveness training course" (notes have found their way into a WPB)... sorry! It appears the web abounds with information though...
Sociopaths - they're gonna make it after all!
... a truly "sensitive" approach to the "unloved" social pig...
Could try this lot...
"Without Conscience: The Disturbing World of the Psychopaths Among Us", Robert D. Hare, Guilford Press, 1999, ISBN 1572304510. Professor Hare is one of the leading authorities on psychopaths.
"Snakes in Suits: When Psychopaths Go to Work", Paul Babiak & Robert D. Hare, Regan Books, 2006, ISBN-10: 0060837721, ISBN-13: 978-0060837723. The authors explore the infiltration into today's corporations by psychopaths, or those with destructive personality characteristics that are invisible to many with whom they interact.
"Emotional Vampires: Dealing with People Who Drain You Dry", Albert J. Bernstein, Ph.D., McGraw-Hill, 2001, ISBN 0-07-138167-8. Dr. Bernstein cleverly uses the vampire analogy to examine the condition.
"In Sheep's Clothing: Understanding and Dealing with Manipulative People" George K Simon, Ph.D., A. J. Christopher & Co., 1996, ISBN: 096516960X. Dr. Simon uses the term 'Covert Aggression' in his analysis.
All 5 books include sections on how to cope with sociopaths. I copied this list from this site...
Inside the Mind of a Sociopath
Note that not all sociopaths are psychopaths (but some might be)... he he he!
Have fun...
Cheers
Sociopaths - they're gonna make it after all!
... a truly "sensitive" approach to the "unloved" social pig...
Could try this lot...
"Without Conscience: The Disturbing World of the Psychopaths Among Us", Robert D. Hare, Guilford Press, 1999, ISBN 1572304510. Professor Hare is one of the leading authorities on psychopaths.
"Snakes in Suits: When Psychopaths Go to Work", Paul Babiak & Robert D. Hare, Regan Books, 2006, ISBN-10: 0060837721, ISBN-13: 978-0060837723. The authors explore the infiltration into today's corporations by psychopaths, or those with destructive personality characteristics that are invisible to many with whom they interact.
"Emotional Vampires: Dealing with People Who Drain You Dry", Albert J. Bernstein, Ph.D., McGraw-Hill, 2001, ISBN 0-07-138167-8. Dr. Bernstein cleverly uses the vampire analogy to examine the condition.
"In Sheep's Clothing: Understanding and Dealing with Manipulative People" George K Simon, Ph.D., A. J. Christopher & Co., 1996, ISBN: 096516960X. Dr. Simon uses the term 'Covert Aggression' in his analysis.
All 5 books include sections on how to cope with sociopaths. I copied this list from this site...
Inside the Mind of a Sociopath
Note that not all sociopaths are psychopaths (but some might be)... he he he!
Have fun...
Cheers
No, we smart people have fought our way to the top (well, not THE top, but the top) the others choose not to learn.
My husband teaches at a school.
There are some smart kids, and there downright stupid ones.
before I start, you must understand that there is a relationship between the intelligence of a person and his behavior. A rather intelligent student has rather good behaviour, whilst the unintelligent student has bad behavior.
A teacher would say that the smart ones would want to learn. While the others choose not to.
Most kids at school are victims of peer pressure, and are subject to conform in the direction of bad children. The outcome, relatively unintelligent children.
So we DO NOT have an advantage of retarded people. we DO HAVE an advantage however, if only the person was retarded or mentally challenged (mentally ill).
If you still don't get what I mean of mentally challenged people, take a look at Zarkof, deadbeat, DavidD's profile and posts.
Kindest
Sandra
My husband teaches at a school.
There are some smart kids, and there downright stupid ones.
before I start, you must understand that there is a relationship between the intelligence of a person and his behavior. A rather intelligent student has rather good behaviour, whilst the unintelligent student has bad behavior.
A teacher would say that the smart ones would want to learn. While the others choose not to.
Most kids at school are victims of peer pressure, and are subject to conform in the direction of bad children. The outcome, relatively unintelligent children.
So we DO NOT have an advantage of retarded people. we DO HAVE an advantage however, if only the person was retarded or mentally challenged (mentally ill).
If you still don't get what I mean of mentally challenged people, take a look at Zarkof, deadbeat, DavidD's profile and posts.
Kindest
Sandra
QUOTE (TheDoc+Jun 20 2008, 04:34 AM)
This is something I've never really thought about until today. Do smarter people have an unfair advantage over the less intelligent? Obviously the better-educated/more intelligent might have better career choices, etc. But is the advantage from having a better education/higher level of intelligence an unfair one?
Ok, let's say that having a greater potential for intelligence was "unfair", in some context, as you say.
Would this be something you felt was in need of being rectified, and if so, I assume you'd want to propose doing something to others in order that you felt things were no longer unfair ... do I get the gist of this correctly?
If so, I'm curious exactly what you'd like to do to other people to rectify, to your satisfaction, this "unfair" situation and what consequences would your actions have upon them?
Would you force less intelligent people to become more intelligent? If so, what additional harm would you impose on those who remained less intelligent? Or would you consider it to be a form of criminality to utilize ones intelligence either beyond or below some level you determined was sufficiently average and thus lower the outliers until the majority of people shared a common lower standard of intelligence? It seems rather unlikely you can raise intelligence simply by some social decree, as most people are already doing most of what they can to be adept and intelligent already, though it's easy to create pain, problems and punishments for those who excel (destruction is much easier than creation). How would a sufficiently average intelligence be determined and would it not be a form of unfair advantage to be in a position to be a judge of what this standard should be? (In other words, it would be hypocritical to attempt to determine for others what an optimized utility for intelligence should be because that would be a judgement made with their intelligence deferred on the matter).
Would you potentially tax (upon threat of imprisonment we could assume) over achievers and reward underachievers by making them stay in school longer (and create an "unfair" advantage for those selected as more intelligent and designated as the teachers)? (If so, what curriculumn do you believe would stimilate some form of greater intellectual equality in your eyes?)
These are just a few issues to begin considering with regard to your question or impled statement.
Ok, let's say that having a greater potential for intelligence was "unfair", in some context, as you say.
Would this be something you felt was in need of being rectified, and if so, I assume you'd want to propose doing something to others in order that you felt things were no longer unfair ... do I get the gist of this correctly?
If so, I'm curious exactly what you'd like to do to other people to rectify, to your satisfaction, this "unfair" situation and what consequences would your actions have upon them?
Would you force less intelligent people to become more intelligent? If so, what additional harm would you impose on those who remained less intelligent? Or would you consider it to be a form of criminality to utilize ones intelligence either beyond or below some level you determined was sufficiently average and thus lower the outliers until the majority of people shared a common lower standard of intelligence? It seems rather unlikely you can raise intelligence simply by some social decree, as most people are already doing most of what they can to be adept and intelligent already, though it's easy to create pain, problems and punishments for those who excel (destruction is much easier than creation). How would a sufficiently average intelligence be determined and would it not be a form of unfair advantage to be in a position to be a judge of what this standard should be? (In other words, it would be hypocritical to attempt to determine for others what an optimized utility for intelligence should be because that would be a judgement made with their intelligence deferred on the matter).
Would you potentially tax (upon threat of imprisonment we could assume) over achievers and reward underachievers by making them stay in school longer (and create an "unfair" advantage for those selected as more intelligent and designated as the teachers)? (If so, what curriculumn do you believe would stimilate some form of greater intellectual equality in your eyes?)
These are just a few issues to begin considering with regard to your question or impled statement.
QUOTE (TheDoc+Jun 21 2008, 04:58 AM)
Isn't one's "happiness factor" directly related to the accomplishement of one's goals?
"I am now the most miserable man living. If what I feel were equally distributed to the whole human family, there would not be one cheerful face on the earth. Whether I shall ever be better I can not tell; I awfully forebode I shall not. To remain as I am is impossible; I must die or be better, it appears to me." - Abraham Lincoln
http://home.att.net/~rjnorton/Lincoln84.html
"I am now the most miserable man living. If what I feel were equally distributed to the whole human family, there would not be one cheerful face on the earth. Whether I shall ever be better I can not tell; I awfully forebode I shall not. To remain as I am is impossible; I must die or be better, it appears to me." - Abraham Lincoln
http://home.att.net/~rjnorton/Lincoln84.html
QUOTE (StevenA+)
Would this be something you felt was in need of being rectified
Not if the advantage that the more intelligent had was unfair, which I personally think it isn't.
No. This was never about how to make things "fair".
No. This was never about how to make things "fair".
Would you force less intelligent people to become more intelligent?
If that happened, society as we know it would fail. No competitiveness, no ideas, no advancement.
Again, that would hinder modern society. If you dumbed down everyone, you'd basically be shutting the door on advancement in just about every subject imaginable. Science, technology, philosophy, art, all that potential, out the window.
Even if the advantage that the more intelligent have is unfair, the alternative - making things "fair" - would destroy the possibility of human advancement.
Again, that would hinder modern society. If you dumbed down everyone, you'd basically be shutting the door on advancement in just about every subject imaginable. Science, technology, philosophy, art, all that potential, out the window.
Even if the advantage that the more intelligent have is unfair, the alternative - making things "fair" - would destroy the possibility of human advancement.
These are just a few issues to begin considering with regard to your question or impled statement.
Actually, no. You are not only assuming a definite conclusion to be drawn from that question, but you're also looking for solutions to the "problem". The first step is determining whether the "problem" exists, or if it's a "problem" at all. Then we get to stage where we look for solutions.
Not if the advantage that the more intelligent had was unfair, which I personally think it isn't.
QUOTE
I assume you'd want to propose doing something to others in order that you felt things were no longer unfair ... do I get the gist of this correctly?
No. This was never about how to make things "fair".
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| I assume you'd want to propose doing something to others in order that you felt things were no longer unfair ... do I get the gist of this correctly? |
No. This was never about how to make things "fair".
Would you force less intelligent people to become more intelligent?
If that happened, society as we know it would fail. No competitiveness, no ideas, no advancement.
QUOTE
Or would you consider it to be a form of criminality to utilize ones intelligence beyond some level you determined was sufficiently average and thus lower the outliers until the majority of people shared a common lower standard of intelligence?
Again, that would hinder modern society. If you dumbed down everyone, you'd basically be shutting the door on advancement in just about every subject imaginable. Science, technology, philosophy, art, all that potential, out the window.
Even if the advantage that the more intelligent have is unfair, the alternative - making things "fair" - would destroy the possibility of human advancement.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| Or would you consider it to be a form of criminality to utilize ones intelligence beyond some level you determined was sufficiently average and thus lower the outliers until the majority of people shared a common lower standard of intelligence? |
Again, that would hinder modern society. If you dumbed down everyone, you'd basically be shutting the door on advancement in just about every subject imaginable. Science, technology, philosophy, art, all that potential, out the window.
Even if the advantage that the more intelligent have is unfair, the alternative - making things "fair" - would destroy the possibility of human advancement.
These are just a few issues to begin considering with regard to your question or impled statement.
Actually, no. You are not only assuming a definite conclusion to be drawn from that question, but you're also looking for solutions to the "problem". The first step is determining whether the "problem" exists, or if it's a "problem" at all. Then we get to stage where we look for solutions.
Success is a difficult thing to define when it is used as a general condition. It is very easy to define in a situational sense such as success of a plan, success of a military campaign etc. but this doesn't fit the discussion.
It seems to me that for this type of discussion success must be defined on a culture by culture basis. Success of this type is a cultural matter and differs from culture to culture.
If we tackle success in a financial sense we have to put cultural constraints on our definition similar to the way we handle real and relative poverty.
Its likely that general success cannot exist outside of the bounds of 'more successful than' and that it, like relative poverty must have a frame of reference.
Personally I would not say that happiness has anything to do with success.
It seems to me that for this type of discussion success must be defined on a culture by culture basis. Success of this type is a cultural matter and differs from culture to culture.
If we tackle success in a financial sense we have to put cultural constraints on our definition similar to the way we handle real and relative poverty.
Its likely that general success cannot exist outside of the bounds of 'more successful than' and that it, like relative poverty must have a frame of reference.
Personally I would not say that happiness has anything to do with success.
QUOTE (vkamath+)
I was thinking of definition 3 given below
vkamath: I assumed that you were thinking of that definition before I posted my response. Admittedly, I deliberately used the opportunity afforded to me by your comments to hopefully make a point that I'll describe in a moment.
Depends on what kind of 'education', I think.
g.
In answer to your question: Yes Age + Intelligence = Hard brain-wiring smarter(It's a wealth of wisdom to pass on to people who will listen and very valuable).
Yes Mature age people are smarter and have an advantage.
I meant brain wiring not brain washing
vkamath: I assumed that you were thinking of that definition before I posted my response. Admittedly, I deliberately used the opportunity afforded to me by your comments to hopefully make a point that I'll describe in a moment.
QUOTE (vkamath+)
My point was Not that happiness is a pre-requisite for success. How do you define a person's success? I think, it is by how happy they are. It doesn't matter if someone has a lot of money or professional success or high intelligence, if they are not happy.
I certainly understand what you're saying and I'm quite confident that many people in this world share this view of yours(I've met quite a few of them myself). What I'm about to say is really NOT a criticism of your viewpoint as it is intended solely for what I would call the "Christian crybabies" that post on this forum...you know, people like deadbeat who LOOK TO THE GOVERNMENT to ensure their supposed "God-given rights" of "life, liberty and THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS" as described in the Declaration of Independence. I don't know who this supposed "God" of theirs is, for my God never promised such things to His people...at least not in this world. No, rather, IN STARK CONTRAST, Jesus warned His disciples that they might be KILLED, IMPRISONED AND PERSECUTED for His name's sake and, yet, I've personally met THOUSANDS of professing Christians who insist that God's main desire is to make us "happy". This mindset flies directly in the face of Jesus' words, such as the following:
"In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world."(John 16:33)
Elsewhere, Jesus likened the Christian life to that of a woman in labor pains. Although the pains get worse and worse as the "due date" approaches(if Christians are genuinely living Godly lives, then they will be more and more persecuted before Christ returns), THE JOY that the woman feels(or should feel) at the birth of the child(the joy that a Christian will experience at Christ's return) way outshines any former pain. From a Christian standpoint, there is literally "a world of difference" between "happiness" and "joy". Christians were promised the latter, but NOT the former. Would to God that crybabies like deadbeat understood this and behaved themselves accordingly. Anyhow, I'll get down off of my soapbox. Like I said, these comments really weren't directed at you, except as an FYI. Take care.
I certainly understand what you're saying and I'm quite confident that many people in this world share this view of yours(I've met quite a few of them myself). What I'm about to say is really NOT a criticism of your viewpoint as it is intended solely for what I would call the "Christian crybabies" that post on this forum...you know, people like deadbeat who LOOK TO THE GOVERNMENT to ensure their supposed "God-given rights" of "life, liberty and THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS" as described in the Declaration of Independence. I don't know who this supposed "God" of theirs is, for my God never promised such things to His people...at least not in this world. No, rather, IN STARK CONTRAST, Jesus warned His disciples that they might be KILLED, IMPRISONED AND PERSECUTED for His name's sake and, yet, I've personally met THOUSANDS of professing Christians who insist that God's main desire is to make us "happy". This mindset flies directly in the face of Jesus' words, such as the following:
"In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world."(John 16:33)
Elsewhere, Jesus likened the Christian life to that of a woman in labor pains. Although the pains get worse and worse as the "due date" approaches(if Christians are genuinely living Godly lives, then they will be more and more persecuted before Christ returns), THE JOY that the woman feels(or should feel) at the birth of the child(the joy that a Christian will experience at Christ's return) way outshines any former pain. From a Christian standpoint, there is literally "a world of difference" between "happiness" and "joy". Christians were promised the latter, but NOT the former. Would to God that crybabies like deadbeat understood this and behaved themselves accordingly. Anyhow, I'll get down off of my soapbox. Like I said, these comments really weren't directed at you, except as an FYI. Take care.
QUOTE (newguy+Jun 21 2008, 11:57 AM)
I'll get down off of my soapbox.
I suggest you get back on it and put your sorry head back in the noose where it belongs, idiot, only then you may jump down!
I suggest you get back on it and put your sorry head back in the noose where it belongs, idiot, only then you may jump down!
QUOTE (Dr. Wolf+)
I suggest you get back on it and put your sorry head back in the noose where it belongs, idiot, only then you may jump down!
Dr. Wolf: If you weren't just another coward hiding inside of a sockpuppet, then I'd welcome you to this forum. Anyhow, I've had tremendous success in the past dealing with "wolves"...I suspect that such will also be the case where you're concerned. If you're man enough to properly identify yourself(I doubt that you are), then we can chat. If not, then farewell.
P.S. Don't forget to leave me a negative feedback. Yeah, that seems to be the only outlet for people like you who have nothing to bring to the table in regards to intelligence.
Dr. Wolf: If you weren't just another coward hiding inside of a sockpuppet, then I'd welcome you to this forum. Anyhow, I've had tremendous success in the past dealing with "wolves"...I suspect that such will also be the case where you're concerned. If you're man enough to properly identify yourself(I doubt that you are), then we can chat. If not, then farewell.
P.S. Don't forget to leave me a negative feedback. Yeah, that seems to be the only outlet for people like you who have nothing to bring to the table in regards to intelligence.
QUOTE (newguy+Jun 21 2008, 01:16 PM)
then farewell.
..... dear world. (hoping)
..... dear world. (hoping)
Post edited
QUOTE (TheDoc+Jun 20 2008, 04:34 AM)
This is something I've never really thought about until today. Do smarter people have an unfair advantage over the less intelligent? Obviously the better-educated/more intelligent might have better career choices, etc. But is the advantage from having a better education/higher level of intelligence an unfair one?
I don't know if "fairness" enters into this. That would imply some mediating intelligence and rules that all have agreed to abide by. There definitely is an advantage to having an education vs. someone who does not. I think the standard model of society is that the intelligent should preside over the less intelligent, rather than trying to help those who want to better themselves.
I don't know if "fairness" enters into this. That would imply some mediating intelligence and rules that all have agreed to abide by. There definitely is an advantage to having an education vs. someone who does not. I think the standard model of society is that the intelligent should preside over the less intelligent, rather than trying to help those who want to better themselves.
QUOTE (MjolnirPants+Jun 20 2008, 02:05 PM)
I got a really (really) high IQ, but I make less than $40k a year, an the only time I even feel particularly smart is when I deal with folks like the cranks here.
I know a guy who's got an even higher IQ than me, but he lives with his folks an can't hold a job fer more'n a month at a time. I know a girl what took remedial classes all throughout high school, scored under 100 on an IQ test, an currently makes about $100-120k a year, is married an has two kids.
O course, I know folk what do the opposite. My friend Oliver is an experimental physicist with a high IQ who's very well respected, draws a relatively hefty (dunno how much, though, at least half again what I make, prolly more) paycheck an is happily married. I also know a dude named Ben who's dumb as a box o rocks, livin on the streets.
All in all, intelligence don't seem (to me) to have all that much to do with success.
I guess we'd have to settle on an agreed definition for "intelligence" to resolve this problem. Does high IQ=high intelligence?
I know a guy who's got an even higher IQ than me, but he lives with his folks an can't hold a job fer more'n a month at a time. I know a girl what took remedial classes all throughout high school, scored under 100 on an IQ test, an currently makes about $100-120k a year, is married an has two kids.
O course, I know folk what do the opposite. My friend Oliver is an experimental physicist with a high IQ who's very well respected, draws a relatively hefty (dunno how much, though, at least half again what I make, prolly more) paycheck an is happily married. I also know a dude named Ben who's dumb as a box o rocks, livin on the streets.
All in all, intelligence don't seem (to me) to have all that much to do with success.
I guess we'd have to settle on an agreed definition for "intelligence" to resolve this problem. Does high IQ=high intelligence?
QUOTE (oomchu+Jun 21 2008, 03:01 PM)
Does high IQ=high intelligence?
Absolutely NOT!
FGG
Absolutely NOT!
FGG
QUOTE
There definitely is an advantage to having an education vs. someone who does not.
Depends on what kind of 'education', I think.
g.
Hmm... I am currently in high school (going into the 11th grade), and I have noticed a pattern throughout the 'stupid' people (excluding those who actually have some mental handicap) -- they CHOOSE to be stupid. If you choose to forfeit your right to do something, you have no right to complain about equality/fairness.
--
On a completely unrelated topic, where would it be right for one to post about ethics? -- I will review the available threads, but in the event that I do not find a suitable thread, I post this.
--
On a completely unrelated topic, where would it be right for one to post about ethics? -- I will review the available threads, but in the event that I do not find a suitable thread, I post this.
There's a very short story by Kurt Vonnegut on just the theme of this thread. It's only about 2 pages long; give it a read if you like.
Harrison Bergeron
--Stuart Anderson
(I think this is the shortest post I've ever made, even with this comment!)
Harrison Bergeron
--Stuart Anderson
(I think this is the shortest post I've ever made, even with this comment!)
QUOTE (mr_homm+Jun 21 2008, 08:07 PM)
There's a very short story by Kurt Vonnegut on just the theme of this thread. It's only about 2 pages long; give it a read if you like.
Harrison Bergeron
--Stuart Anderson
(I think this is the shortest post I've ever made, even with this comment!)
... About the same... give or take.
Harrison Bergeron
--Stuart Anderson
(I think this is the shortest post I've ever made, even with this comment!)
QUOTE
Hi BDW,
Glad to hear it. There's an old saying about art and literature: theft is the sincerest form of flattery. Best of luck with your writing!
--Stuart Anderson
Glad to hear it. There's an old saying about art and literature: theft is the sincerest form of flattery. Best of luck with your writing!
--Stuart Anderson
... About the same... give or take.
QUOTE (TheDoc+Jun 20 2008, 04:34 AM)
This is something I've never really thought about until today. Do smarter people have an unfair advantage over the less intelligent? Obviously the better-educated/more intelligent might have better career choices, etc. But is the advantage from having a better education/higher level of intelligence an unfair one?
What is the definition of smarter? (Smarter than yourself 3 years ago?) Intelligence comes before geriatric debenture and and at 50 I'm right on the beginning not the later.
In answer to your question: Yes Age+Intelligence==Hardcore brainwireing=smarter(It's a wealth of wisdom to pass on to people who will listen and very valuable).
Yes Mature age people are smarter and have an advantage.
What is the definition of smarter? (Smarter than yourself 3 years ago?) Intelligence comes before geriatric debenture and and at 50 I'm right on the beginning not the later.
In answer to your question: Yes Age+Intelligence==Hardcore brainwireing=smarter(It's a wealth of wisdom to pass on to people who will listen and very valuable).
Yes Mature age people are smarter and have an advantage.
QUOTE (maxwords+Jun 22 2008, 04:12 PM)
In answer to your question: Yes Age + Intelligence = Hard brain-wiring smarter(It's a wealth of wisdom to pass on to people who will listen and very valuable).
Yes Mature age people are smarter and have an advantage.
I meant brain wiring not brain washing
QUOTE (newguy+Jun 23 2008, 01:39 PM)
MjolnirPants/BigDumbCrybaby: Where've you been? I thought maybe you got locked up after your kaneda-like breakdown and departure from this forum. Are you okay?
Oh, I see. Ole Bigdumbo's a crybaby jes cause you said so, right?
Yanno what'd blow my mind? You actually actin like a christian. I wouldn't know how to react! Integrity was suppose to mean somethin to em. I guess ya jes ain't that kind o christian, eh? Oh well, prove me wrong then. Find an quote one post where BigDumbo whined an cried about anythin.
Deliberate, o course. I'd need a shrink, an then he'd need to prescribe me some tranqs before the other option'd even be viable. But I guess you know better, huh? You use yer magical prayer power to see the truth o me sittin here in a mental hospital typin away at the group pc while tryin not to drool too much on the keyboard, right?
Deliberate, o course. I'd need a shrink, an then he'd need to prescribe me some tranqs before the other option'd even be viable. But I guess you know better, huh? You use yer magical prayer power to see the truth o me sittin here in a mental hospital typin away at the group pc while tryin not to drool too much on the keyboard, right?
Thanks. Oh, welcome back...coward.
Welcome back yerself, lyin hypocritical immature coward. It's good to see some people who don't have the balls to stick to their convictions can still call other folk cowards, an thereby make themselves look all the worse.
Oh, I see. Ole Bigdumbo's a crybaby jes cause you said so, right?
Yanno what'd blow my mind? You actually actin like a christian. I wouldn't know how to react! Integrity was suppose to mean somethin to em. I guess ya jes ain't that kind o christian, eh? Oh well, prove me wrong then. Find an quote one post where BigDumbo whined an cried about anythin.
QUOTE
I've been meaning to ask you something...that funny speech that you use with this sockpuppet account of yours...Is that deliberate or is that some sort of side effect from the tranquilizers that your shrink put you on? Please inform.
Deliberate, o course. I'd need a shrink, an then he'd need to prescribe me some tranqs before the other option'd even be viable. But I guess you know better, huh? You use yer magical prayer power to see the truth o me sittin here in a mental hospital typin away at the group pc while tryin not to drool too much on the keyboard, right?
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| I've been meaning to ask you something...that funny speech that you use with this sockpuppet account of yours...Is that deliberate or is that some sort of side effect from the tranquilizers that your shrink put you on? Please inform. |
Deliberate, o course. I'd need a shrink, an then he'd need to prescribe me some tranqs before the other option'd even be viable. But I guess you know better, huh? You use yer magical prayer power to see the truth o me sittin here in a mental hospital typin away at the group pc while tryin not to drool too much on the keyboard, right?
Thanks. Oh, welcome back...coward.
Welcome back yerself, lyin hypocritical immature coward. It's good to see some people who don't have the balls to stick to their convictions can still call other folk cowards, an thereby make themselves look all the worse.
QUOTE (BigDumbWeirdo's sockpuppet+)
Welcome back yerself, lyin hypocritical immature coward. It's good to see some people who don't have the balls to stick to their convictions can still call other folk cowards, an thereby make themselves look all the worse.
Thus saith the guy(used loosely) hiding inside of a sockpuppet with a deliberately altered posting style...
Thus saith the guy(used loosely) hiding inside of a sockpuppet with a deliberately altered posting style...
Thank you brent.tc for that fantastic short story reference. The metaphor of the "Handicapper General" being religious indoctrination, the church or "faith" is great.
Has everyone noticed that as newguy and deadbeat get cornered from losing rational debates, they get more desperate?
Is newguy capable of reading, understanding and synthesizing real peer-reviewed science with something other than his religious brainwashing? (()) You know, building a knowledge base on something that reflects reality and man's true place in nature? 
Are they hearing church bells through THEIR headphones?
newguy, Don't you have a better comeback than to falsely accuse people of being sockpuppets when you have so thoroughly lost an argument! Go away! Christianity would be better off without you. Go witness to the Saudis!
The metaphor of the "Handicapper General" being religious indoctrination, the church or "faith" is great.Has everyone noticed that as newguy and deadbeat get cornered from losing rational debates, they get more desperate?
Is newguy capable of reading, understanding and synthesizing real peer-reviewed science with something other than his religious brainwashing? (()) You know, building a knowledge base on something that reflects reality and man's true place in nature? Are they hearing church bells through THEIR headphones? newguy, Don't you have a better comeback than to falsely accuse people of being sockpuppets when you have so thoroughly lost an argument! Go away! Christianity would be better off without you. Go witness to the Saudis!
QUOTE (newguy+Jun 23 2008, 04:13 PM)
Thus saith the supposed sock-puppet of the guy who calmly and civilly tried to convince me to be less judgemental of others here, but whom I was unwilling to listen to due to my own immaturity and desire for attention.
I fixed it fer ya
I fixed it fer ya
QUOTE (newguy+Jun 23 2008, 04:13 PM)
Thus saith the guy(used loosely) hiding inside of a sockpuppet with a deliberately altered posting style...
Hey newguy, how many times did ya try accessing the Joint after ya got banned?
So why don't ya tell us all jes what ya got banned fer?
Hey newguy, how many times did ya try accessing the Joint after ya got banned?
So why don't ya tell us all jes what ya got banned fer?
QUOTE (MjolnirPants+Jun 23 2008, 07:50 PM)
Hey newguy, how many times did ya try accessing the Joint after ya got banned?
So why don't ya tell us all jes what ya got banned fer?
newguy got banned from Sapo's Joint?
So why don't ya tell us all jes what ya got banned fer?
newguy got banned from Sapo's Joint?
QUOTE (TheDoc+Jun 24 2008, 03:16 AM)
newguy got banned from Sapo's Joint?
Classic proof of smart people having real advantage over idiots.
Classic proof of smart people having real advantage over idiots.
QUOTE (BDW+)
Hey newguy, how many times did ya try accessing the Joint after ya got banned?
So why don't ya tell us all jes what ya got banned fer?
BDW: A few times and...??? Sapo sent me a private message on that forum and I got notified of it at my email address. I tried to access the forum a few times to see what his message was, but I was unable to do so. After that, I PM'd Sapo from this forum to ask him if I had been banned for some reason(in answer to one of his other private messages that he had sent me earlier that day in which he invited me to post on his forum, I had already politely informed him that I had no intention of doing so) and then I read his outburst in the Comments/Suggestion section of this forum and I sent him another PM in which I told him that his comments there had apparently already answered my question. So...? What's your point? Don't have one? Didn't think so. Unless of course your point was to further convince me of your stupidity... See you around.
So why don't ya tell us all jes what ya got banned fer?
BDW: A few times and...??? Sapo sent me a private message on that forum and I got notified of it at my email address. I tried to access the forum a few times to see what his message was, but I was unable to do so. After that, I PM'd Sapo from this forum to ask him if I had been banned for some reason(in answer to one of his other private messages that he had sent me earlier that day in which he invited me to post on his forum, I had already politely informed him that I had no intention of doing so) and then I read his outburst in the Comments/Suggestion section of this forum and I sent him another PM in which I told him that his comments there had apparently already answered my question. So...? What's your point? Don't have one? Didn't think so. Unless of course your point was to further convince me of your stupidity... See you around.
QUOTE (Doc+)
newguy got banned from Sapo's Joint?
Thus saith the ignoramus who was busy arguing with sockpuppets and still would be if I didn't educate his sorry @ss...
Thus saith the ignoramus who was busy arguing with sockpuppets and still would be if I didn't educate his sorry @ss...
QUOTE (newguy+Jun 24 2008, 10:15 AM)
QUOTE (Doc+)
newguy got banned from Sapo's Joint?
Thus saith the ignoramus who was busy arguing with sockpuppets and still would be if I didn't educate his sorry @ss...
Is that another bible quote?
g.
Thus saith the ignoramus who was busy arguing with sockpuppets and still would be if I didn't educate his sorry @ss...
Is that another bible quote?
g.
QUOTE (newguy+Jun 24 2008, 09:12 PM)
BDW: A few times and...??? Sapo sent me a private message on that forum and I got notified of it at my email address. I tried to access the forum a few times to see what his message was, but I was unable to do so. After that, I PM'd Sapo from this forum to ask him if I had been banned for some reason(in answer to one of his other private messages that he had sent me earlier that day in which he invited me to post on his forum, I had already politely informed him that I had no intention of doing so) and then I read his outburst in the Comments/Suggestion section of this forum and I sent him another PM in which I told him that his comments there had apparently already answered my question. So...? What's your point? Don't have one? Didn't think so.
Yanno, ya'd think I hadn't seen the difference 'tween what you said happened an what Sapo (whom I trust a hella lot more than you, an who has the logs to prove it) said happened....
Jes like ole BigDumbo saw the difference 'tween the way you described that PM exchange with PhotoJack an the actual PMs, forwarded to him by photojack.
How often did Jesus lie, newguy? Is that very christian o ya?
Wow... How many people did Jesus insult? Is that very christian o ya?
So come on, be honest now, or do I need to tell the forum for ya? Cause I know the answer...
Yanno, ya'd think I hadn't seen the difference 'tween what you said happened an what Sapo (whom I trust a hella lot more than you, an who has the logs to prove it) said happened....
Jes like ole BigDumbo saw the difference 'tween the way you described that PM exchange with PhotoJack an the actual PMs, forwarded to him by photojack.
How often did Jesus lie, newguy? Is that very christian o ya?
QUOTE
Unless of course your point was to further convince me of your stupidity... See you around.
Wow... How many people did Jesus insult? Is that very christian o ya?
So come on, be honest now, or do I need to tell the forum for ya? Cause I know the answer...
QUOTE (BDW+)
Yanno, ya'd think I hadn't seen the difference 'tween what you said happened an what Sapo (whom I trust a hella lot more than you, an who has the logs to prove it) said happened....
Jes like ole BigDumbo saw the difference 'tween the way you described that PM exchange with PhotoJack an the actual PMs, forwarded to him by photojack. wink.gif
How often did Jesus lie, newguy? Is that very christian o ya?
BDW: Here's your BIG CHANCE...go ahead, document my so-called "lie". Here are the two PM's that I sent to Sapo from this forum:
Sent: Never mind..., Jun 22 2008, 08:49 PM
Sapo:
I just read your post regarding "the joint". I think that answers my question. Take care.
newguy
And here's the email that I received which prompted my to try to log on at "the joint" in the first place:
Things transpired just as I described them...where's your proof to the contrary. I'll be waiting...
sockpuppet(I might as well try to reason with the more intelligent of the two...): When BDW has finished "fingering you", tell him to go get a life. Thanks.
Jes like ole BigDumbo saw the difference 'tween the way you described that PM exchange with PhotoJack an the actual PMs, forwarded to him by photojack. wink.gif
How often did Jesus lie, newguy? Is that very christian o ya?
BDW: Here's your BIG CHANCE...go ahead, document my so-called "lie". Here are the two PM's that I sent to Sapo from this forum:
QUOTE
Sent: blocked?, Jun 22 2008, 08:46 PM
Sapo:
I received an email that stated that I have a new personal message from you on your website. When I tried to log on to your website to view it, I was unable to do so. Have I been blocked? Please inform. Thanks.
newguy
Sapo:
I received an email that stated that I have a new personal message from you on your website. When I tried to log on to your website to view it, I was unable to do so. Have I been blocked? Please inform. Thanks.
newguy
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| Sent: blocked?, Jun 22 2008, 08:46 PM Sapo: I received an email that stated that I have a new personal message from you on your website. When I tried to log on to your website to view it, I was unable to do so. Have I been blocked? Please inform. Thanks. newguy |
Sent: Never mind..., Jun 22 2008, 08:49 PM
Sapo:
I just read your post regarding "the joint". I think that answers my question. Take care.
newguy
And here's the email that I received which prompted my to try to log on at "the joint" in the first place:
QUOTE
From: dready42@gmail.com
Sent:Sun 6/22/08 4:14 PM
Reply-to: jmuggins@austin.rr.com
To: newguy (repent16@hotmail.com)
Hello newguy,
You have received a new private message from "Sapo" to your account on
"Sapo's Joint" with the following subject:
Re: hiding
You can view your new message by clicking on the following link:
http://saposjoint.cjb.net/Forum/ucp.php?i=pm&folder=inbox
You have requested that you be notified on this event, remember that you
can always choose not to be notified of new messages by changing the
appropriate setting in your profile.
--
Muggins, for the Management
Sent:Sun 6/22/08 4:14 PM
Reply-to: jmuggins@austin.rr.com
To: newguy (repent16@hotmail.com)
Hello newguy,
You have received a new private message from "Sapo" to your account on
"Sapo's Joint" with the following subject:
Re: hiding
You can view your new message by clicking on the following link:
http://saposjoint.cjb.net/Forum/ucp.php?i=pm&folder=inbox
You have requested that you be notified on this event, remember that you
can always choose not to be notified of new messages by changing the
appropriate setting in your profile.
--
Muggins, for the Management
Things transpired just as I described them...where's your proof to the contrary. I'll be waiting...
sockpuppet(I might as well try to reason with the more intelligent of the two...): When BDW has finished "fingering you", tell him to go get a life. Thanks.
Npw that I have a few more minutes...
QUOTE (BDW+)
Jes like ole BigDumbo saw the difference 'tween the way you described that PM exchange with PhotoJack an the actual PMs, forwarded to him by photojack.
Really? What "difference"? I still have the PM's that photojack sent me...show me/us the "differences". Come on...I'm waiting.
Really? What "difference"? I still have the PM's that photojack sent me...show me/us the "differences". Come on...I'm waiting.
QUOTE (BDW+)
How often did Jesus lie, newguy? Is that very christian o ya?
So far, all I've seen is accusations...where's the documentation? Don't have any? Didn't think so(actually, I KNOW that you don't).
By the way...what was the purpose of mentioning me being banned from Sapo's joint in the first place? I never actually posted there and I only registered to view fivedoughnut's posting history so that I could post a link to where he admitted to his sockpuppet account. So, what's the big deal? Unless Sapo's both an idiot and a liar like you, then he should readily admit that I never posted there and also verify that I turned down his invitation to post there. So once again I ask, what's the purpose of mentioning it? You wouldn't be frantically grasping at straws, would you? Certainly seems so to me. Anyhow, please do hurry up with that documentation, won't you?
So far, all I've seen is accusations...where's the documentation? Don't have any? Didn't think so(actually, I KNOW that you don't).
By the way...what was the purpose of mentioning me being banned from Sapo's joint in the first place? I never actually posted there and I only registered to view fivedoughnut's posting history so that I could post a link to where he admitted to his sockpuppet account. So, what's the big deal? Unless Sapo's both an idiot and a liar like you, then he should readily admit that I never posted there and also verify that I turned down his invitation to post there. So once again I ask, what's the purpose of mentioning it? You wouldn't be frantically grasping at straws, would you? Certainly seems so to me. Anyhow, please do hurry up with that documentation, won't you?
QUOTE (BDW+)
Wow... How many people did Jesus insult? Is that very christian o ya?
Jesus referred to people as "serpents", "hypocrites", "fools", etc., etc. Would you like me to cite chapter and verse?
Once again, it's pretty funny being admonished to be honest by a someone hiding inside of a sockpuppet who's using a deliberately altered posting style in hopes to deceive. Anyhow, I've been honest all along...unlike you. Prove otherwise, you lying coward. By all means, please do tell the forum how many times I tried to log on at Sapo's joint. While you're at it, make sure to tell them what time it was when I was attempting to log on and compare that with the times of the PM's that I sent to Sapo. As I said, I was merely trying to read the PM that he sent me. Your problem with THAT(I know what your other problems are) would be? By the way, I find you very entertaining...until I remember that you're going to be a father soon. Get some help before the child's born...if not for your own sake, then for the sake of the child.
Jesus referred to people as "serpents", "hypocrites", "fools", etc., etc. Would you like me to cite chapter and verse?
QUOTE
So come on, be honest now, or do I need to tell the forum for ya? Cause I know the answer...
Once again, it's pretty funny being admonished to be honest by a someone hiding inside of a sockpuppet who's using a deliberately altered posting style in hopes to deceive. Anyhow, I've been honest all along...unlike you. Prove otherwise, you lying coward. By all means, please do tell the forum how many times I tried to log on at Sapo's joint. While you're at it, make sure to tell them what time it was when I was attempting to log on and compare that with the times of the PM's that I sent to Sapo. As I said, I was merely trying to read the PM that he sent me. Your problem with THAT(I know what your other problems are) would be? By the way, I find you very entertaining...until I remember that you're going to be a father soon. Get some help before the child's born...if not for your own sake, then for the sake of the child.
QUOTE (newguy+Jun 25 2008, 01:53 AM)
Really? What "difference"? I still have the PM's that photojack sent me...show me/us the "differences". Come on...I'm waiting.
So far, all I've seen is accusations...where's the documentation? Don't have any? Didn't think so(actually, I KNOW that you don't).
...
Anyhow, I've been honest all along...unlike you.
...
Prove otherwise, you lying coward.
So far, all I've seen is accusations...where's the documentation? Don't have any? Didn't think so(actually, I KNOW that you don't).
...
Anyhow, I've been honest all along...unlike you.
...
Prove otherwise, you lying coward.
QUOTE (newguy+)
He not only accepted my "challenge", but he PM'd me and wanted to know if I could recommend to him a list of places where he could do outdoor activities and take photos(he's a photographer, hence "photojack"). In other words, he wrote me as if he had won a free vacation to the Poconos.
QUOTE (PhotoJack+)
I am looking forward to the trip and meeting you and your family. I have many hobbies and interests, love road trips, vintage architecture, almost all museums, local history, photography and more. I hope there will be some time for local excursions. How far are you from N.Y.C. and Philadelphia? I looked up Tobyhanna on wikipedia and found it in Monroe county. This is a part of the country that would be new to me. I've traveled extensively through the desert southwest and recently did a road trip to Duluth, MN, Chicago, St. Louis, O.K. City and back to San Diego. As my tag name implies, photography is one of my main hobbies. I love nature, canoeing, rivers, lakes, sailing, hiking, biking and more.
My schedule is flexible, as I am self-employed, and I want to make it as easy as possible for you. I do tilesetting, landscaping, pruning, gardening, house remodeling and general handyman projects. I would be glad to help with things like that if you would like, in favor of your kind offer. Just make a list and prioritize it, you'd be surprized how fast things can get done. The cheapest coach seats on the cheapest airline would more than suffice.
As conversation starters, do you have hobbies, interests and travels you would like to share? As a child, I lived in Italy and Germany and as an adult have been to about 35 countries from China, Egypt, the Netherlands, Germany again, Greece, Turkey, Romania, Chile and about 20 others. World travel has been a highlight of my life. Take care, Jack
So ya KNOW that I don't have any such documentation, eh?
Tell me, how many folk offer to work off a free vacation?
"Hey captain, I won this trip on yer cruise ship an I was wonderin if there was anythin I could do to help out..."
So tell me... After yer kid was born, did ya renew yer invite? Yanno, jes to be on the level an all, after all, not renewin it makes it look like yer kid bein born was jes an excuse...
My schedule is flexible, as I am self-employed, and I want to make it as easy as possible for you. I do tilesetting, landscaping, pruning, gardening, house remodeling and general handyman projects. I would be glad to help with things like that if you would like, in favor of your kind offer. Just make a list and prioritize it, you'd be surprized how fast things can get done. The cheapest coach seats on the cheapest airline would more than suffice.
As conversation starters, do you have hobbies, interests and travels you would like to share? As a child, I lived in Italy and Germany and as an adult have been to about 35 countries from China, Egypt, the Netherlands, Germany again, Greece, Turkey, Romania, Chile and about 20 others. World travel has been a highlight of my life. Take care, Jack
So ya KNOW that I don't have any such documentation, eh?
Tell me, how many folk offer to work off a free vacation?
"Hey captain, I won this trip on yer cruise ship an I was wonderin if there was anythin I could do to help out..."
So tell me... After yer kid was born, did ya renew yer invite? Yanno, jes to be on the level an all, after all, not renewin it makes it look like yer kid bein born was jes an excuse...
QUOTE (Sapo+)
The text of my PM to him re: hiding was simply to suggest that he need not hide his login status on the Joint, because we do not have problems with moderation and mafia here, and his point of view would be treated fairly in discussion, as everyone else's here will be.
When I discovered that his purpose in registering here was simply to make others look foolish to prove his petty points, I was understandably angry. So very 'Christian' a hypocrite can surely appreciate that...
If you wish to quote me on Physorg, please do. Raphie Frank wanted to know what had me frustrated, and this will do for his answer, since I will not post there again.
Ahh, so now ya admit it... Ya registered for the Joint with no plans to actually post there, ya jes did it so you could dig up dirt on folks ya don't like...
An that's why ya got banned. Sapo don't want none o this drama on his joint. If ya'd been payin attention durin yer search fer dirt, ye'd have noticed the lack o such there. (I can't say as I blame him, as much fun as it may be to see ya sink to new lows on a daily basis. ) So bringin this kind o juvenile tripe over there got ya banned. An fer the record? Ya tried 15 times. Not "a few." 15!!! I think I coulda figured out after once or twice, but ya tried 15 times, son...
Ahh, so now ya admit it... Ya registered for the Joint with no plans to actually post there, ya jes did it so you could dig up dirt on folks ya don't like...
An that's why ya got banned. Sapo don't want none o this drama on his joint. If ya'd been payin attention durin yer search fer dirt, ye'd have noticed the lack o such there. (I can't say as I blame him, as much fun as it may be to see ya sink to new lows on a daily basis. ) So bringin this kind o juvenile tripe over there got ya banned. An fer the record? Ya tried 15 times. Not "a few." 15!!! I think I coulda figured out after once or twice, but ya tried 15 times, son...
He has tried 15 times since yesterday.
Oh, do quote where I claimed ya posted there.... Liar.
Oh, do quote where I claimed ya posted there.... Liar.
So once again I ask, what's the purpose of mentioning it? You wouldn't be frantically grasping at straws, would you?
Frantically graspin at straws... Like stoopin to insults instead o arguments?
I await your elucidation with breathless anticipation.
I await your elucidation with breathless anticipation.
By the way, I find you very entertaining...until I remember that you're going to be a father soon. Get some help before the child's born...if not for your own sake, then for the sake of the child.
Hey, maybe you could come do some faith healin on me?
Oh, an I'm real curious as to why ya seem to think that me supposedly bein a sockpuppet an dislikin you would make me a bad daddy. I can't wait to hear the reasonin behind [b]that[/] one...
Callin someone a hypocrite ain't an insult, if it's proven. Callin someone a fool or even a 'snake' (understandin it to be a euphamism fer hypocrite, that is) ain't, either, if it's proven. But you call me stupid in response to pointin out yer hypocrisy. How's that stupid? Stupid cause you'll pray up a lightnin storm to come get me fer pissin ya off?
When I discovered that his purpose in registering here was simply to make others look foolish to prove his petty points, I was understandably angry. So very 'Christian' a hypocrite can surely appreciate that...
If you wish to quote me on Physorg, please do. Raphie Frank wanted to know what had me frustrated, and this will do for his answer, since I will not post there again.
QUOTE
By the way...what was the purpose of mentioning me being banned from Sapo's joint in the first place? I never actually posted there and I only registered to view fivedoughnut's posting history so that I could post a link to where he admitted to his sockpuppet account.
Ahh, so now ya admit it... Ya registered for the Joint with no plans to actually post there, ya jes did it so you could dig up dirt on folks ya don't like...
An that's why ya got banned. Sapo don't want none o this drama on his joint. If ya'd been payin attention durin yer search fer dirt, ye'd have noticed the lack o such there. (I can't say as I blame him, as much fun as it may be to see ya sink to new lows on a daily basis.
) So bringin this kind o juvenile tripe over there got ya banned. An fer the record? Ya tried 15 times. Not "a few." 15!!! I think I coulda figured out after once or twice, but ya tried 15 times, son...QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| By the way...what was the purpose of mentioning me being banned from Sapo's joint in the first place? I never actually posted there and I only registered to view fivedoughnut's posting history so that I could post a link to where he admitted to his sockpuppet account. |
Ahh, so now ya admit it... Ya registered for the Joint with no plans to actually post there, ya jes did it so you could dig up dirt on folks ya don't like...
An that's why ya got banned. Sapo don't want none o this drama on his joint. If ya'd been payin attention durin yer search fer dirt, ye'd have noticed the lack o such there. (I can't say as I blame him, as much fun as it may be to see ya sink to new lows on a daily basis.
) So bringin this kind o juvenile tripe over there got ya banned. An fer the record? Ya tried 15 times. Not "a few." 15!!! I think I coulda figured out after once or twice, but ya tried 15 times, son...He has tried 15 times since yesterday.
QUOTE
So, what's the big deal? Unless Sapo's both an idiot and a liar like you, then he should readily admit that I never posted there and also verify that I turned down his invitation to post there.
Oh, do quote where I claimed ya posted there.... Liar.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| So, what's the big deal? Unless Sapo's both an idiot and a liar like you, then he should readily admit that I never posted there and also verify that I turned down his invitation to post there. |
Oh, do quote where I claimed ya posted there.... Liar.
So once again I ask, what's the purpose of mentioning it? You wouldn't be frantically grasping at straws, would you?
Frantically graspin at straws... Like stoopin to insults instead o arguments?
QUOTE
(I know what your other problems are)
I await your elucidation with breathless anticipation.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| (I know what your other problems are) |
I await your elucidation with breathless anticipation.
By the way, I find you very entertaining...until I remember that you're going to be a father soon. Get some help before the child's born...if not for your own sake, then for the sake of the child.
Hey, maybe you could come do some faith healin on me?
Oh, an I'm real curious as to why ya seem to think that me supposedly bein a sockpuppet an dislikin you would make me a bad daddy. I can't wait to hear the reasonin behind [b]that[/] one...
QUOTE
Jesus referred to people as "serpents", "hypocrites", "fools", etc., etc. Would you like me to cite chapter and verse?
Callin someone a hypocrite ain't an insult, if it's proven. Callin someone a fool or even a 'snake' (understandin it to be a euphamism fer hypocrite, that is) ain't, either, if it's proven. But you call me stupid in response to pointin out yer hypocrisy. How's that stupid? Stupid cause you'll pray up a lightnin storm to come get me fer pissin ya off?
QUOTE (BDW hiding inside of a sockpuppet+)
So ya KNOW that I don't have any such documentation, eh?
Tell me, how many folk offer to work off a free vacation?
"Hey captain, I won this trip on yer cruise ship an I was wonderin if there was anythin I could do to help out..."
So tell me... After yer kid was born, did ya renew yer invite? Yanno, jes to be on the level an all, after all, not renewin it makes it look like yer kid bein born was jes an excuse...
BDW hiding inside of a sockpuppet: That's it?!? First of all, you should notice that he didn't even mention the reason why I invited him in his PM to me except, possibly, when he said that he "hoped there would be some time for local excursions"...possibly meaning that the other time would be spent in regards to his actual invite. Since you've quoted some of his PM, I'll quote some of my response to what he wrote:
Tell me, how many folk offer to work off a free vacation?
"Hey captain, I won this trip on yer cruise ship an I was wonderin if there was anythin I could do to help out..."
So tell me... After yer kid was born, did ya renew yer invite? Yanno, jes to be on the level an all, after all, not renewin it makes it look like yer kid bein born was jes an excuse...
BDW hiding inside of a sockpuppet: That's it?!? First of all, you should notice that he didn't even mention the reason why I invited him in his PM to me except, possibly, when he said that he "hoped there would be some time for local excursions"...possibly meaning that the other time would be spent in regards to his actual invite. Since you've quoted some of his PM, I'll quote some of my response to what he wrote:
QUOTE (newguy+)
Should I be able to manage to fulfil my end of the "challenge" at this time, then I need for you to know that it will be a very small "window of opportunity". By that, I mean that I will most likely be flying you in, for example, on a Tuesday(hypothetical day...I don't know what day of the week it would actually be) and flying you back out the next day. I read of your hobbies, but, and I hope you don't take this the wrong way, I never invited you for a photo shoot or for a mini-vacation...I invited you to see that Jesus Christ is alive and well.
Rather than object to what I wrote, he responded thusly:
Rather than object to what I wrote, he responded thusly:
QUOTE (photojack+)
Dear newguy, Thank you for the explanatory message. I certainly understand that this is a complex time for you. I wish you and your family and "family to be" all the best. I wouldn't "delay" praying for your mother-in-law, it sounds like she would need that ASAP. I lost my oldest brother in February to bone marrow cancer. The best and latest of science and praying didn't stop the progression of that form of cancer. Please keep me posted about when the time might be appropriate for the prayer session visit. Thank you, Jack
You should be able to notice that the focus of THIS response was on the prayer session...NOT day trips and photography. I'll admit that I shouldn't have used the word "free" in relation to the "vacation". FOR THAT, I'll gladly apologize. There was no intent to deceive at my end...I was merely thinking of how much his initial response reminded me of one of those timeshare vacation packages that are frequently offered in the Poconos where I live. As far as my son's birth is concerned, his birthday can be easily proven by his birth certificate.
You should be able to notice that the focus of THIS response was on the prayer session...NOT day trips and photography. I'll admit that I shouldn't have used the word "free" in relation to the "vacation". FOR THAT, I'll gladly apologize. There was no intent to deceive at my end...I was merely thinking of how much his initial response reminded me of one of those timeshare vacation packages that are frequently offered in the Poconos where I live. As far as my son's birth is concerned, his birthday can be easily proven by his birth certificate.
QUOTE (BDW hiding inside of a sockpuppet+)
Ahh, so now ya admit it... Ya registered for the Joint with no plans to actually post there, ya jes did it so you could dig up dirt on folks ya don't like...
"NOW I admit it"? When did I ever deny it? Never. "Dig up dirt"? You really are stupid. How about this dose of reality...
There were sockpuppet accounts floating around throughout several threads at physorg...
Apparently, I am one of few people who WAS NOT duped by them, whereas atheists were not only arguing with them and leaving them negative feedback, but also posting their comments of FSTDT(Fundies say the darndest things)...
I read a post of Confused2's in which he suggested that some of these sockpuppets belonged to fivedoughnut...
I had visited Sapo's joint as a guest in the past and I was aware that fivedoughnut posted there...
I went to Sapo's joint as a guest and tried clicking on fivedoughnut's posting history to save myself the time of having to go through all of the different threads there...
I was unable to do so without registering, so I registered...
I clicked on fivedoughnut's username, viewed his posting history and found his confession regarding the sockpuppets...
I posted a link to his confession so forum members would stop being duped by a sockpuppet...
And YOU call this "diggin' up dirt on folks I don't like"?!?
You're an idiot...and a desperate one at that.
"NOW I admit it"? When did I ever deny it? Never. "Dig up dirt"? You really are stupid. How about this dose of reality...
There were sockpuppet accounts floating around throughout several threads at physorg...
Apparently, I am one of few people who WAS NOT duped by them, whereas atheists were not only arguing with them and leaving them negative feedback, but also posting their comments of FSTDT(Fundies say the darndest things)...
I read a post of Confused2's in which he suggested that some of these sockpuppets belonged to fivedoughnut...
I had visited Sapo's joint as a guest in the past and I was aware that fivedoughnut posted there...
I went to Sapo's joint as a guest and tried clicking on fivedoughnut's posting history to save myself the time of having to go through all of the different threads there...
I was unable to do so without registering, so I registered...
I clicked on fivedoughnut's username, viewed his posting history and found his confession regarding the sockpuppets...
I posted a link to his confession so forum members would stop being duped by a sockpuppet...
And YOU call this "diggin' up dirt on folks I don't like"?!?
You're an idiot...and a desperate one at that.
QUOTE (BDW hiding inside of a sockpuppet+)
An that's why ya got banned. Sapo don't want none o this drama on his joint. If ya'd been payin attention durin yer search fer dirt, ye'd have noticed the lack o such there. (I can't say as I blame him, as much fun as it may be to see ya sink to new lows on a daily basis. wink.gif ) So bringin this kind o juvenile tripe over there got ya banned. An fer the record? Ya tried 15 times. Not "a few." 15!!! I think I coulda figured out after once or twice, but ya tried 15 times, son...
LOL!!!
Who cares that I got banned...certainly NOT me. SAPO'S the one who invited me to post there when he saw that I had registered and I'M the one who politely turned down his offer. So, like I said, who cares that I got banned...I had no intention of ever posting there in the first place. "Sapo don't want none of this drama on his joint"? Sapo's a jack@ss and you can tell him that I said so. I read enough comments on that forum to recognize that he laughed along with your sockpuppet accounts that he was well aware of. That ought to tell you something about the integrity of that man(used loosely), but, alas, it won't. Let him call me a hypocrite all that he wants...his opinion and his forum mean absolutely nothing to me. And, once again, I never "brought any tripe over there"...I NEVER posted there...are you thick?(rhetorical question). No, rather, immature babies FROM OVER THERE brought their sockpuppet accounts OVER HERE. You sure do have everything @ss-backwards, don't you? I notice that you didn't post the time frames in which I tried logging in...what's the matter...they coincide with my PM's to Sapo? And, for the umpteenth time, I was only attempting to login TO READ THE PM THAT SAPO SENT ME. Do I need a skyrider to put that up in the sky for you down in Florida?
Well, I'm using a public computer at my hotel and others are waiting, so I'll have to get to the rest of your post later...
LOL!!!
Who cares that I got banned...certainly NOT me. SAPO'S the one who invited me to post there when he saw that I had registered and I'M the one who politely turned down his offer. So, like I said, who cares that I got banned...I had no intention of ever posting there in the first place. "Sapo don't want none of this drama on his joint"? Sapo's a jack@ss and you can tell him that I said so. I read enough comments on that forum to recognize that he laughed along with your sockpuppet accounts that he was well aware of. That ought to tell you something about the integrity of that man(used loosely), but, alas, it won't. Let him call me a hypocrite all that he wants...his opinion and his forum mean absolutely nothing to me. And, once again, I never "brought any tripe over there"...I NEVER posted there...are you thick?(rhetorical question). No, rather, immature babies FROM OVER THERE brought their sockpuppet accounts OVER HERE. You sure do have everything @ss-backwards, don't you? I notice that you didn't post the time frames in which I tried logging in...what's the matter...they coincide with my PM's to Sapo? And, for the umpteenth time, I was only attempting to login TO READ THE PM THAT SAPO SENT ME. Do I need a skyrider to put that up in the sky for you down in Florida?
Well, I'm using a public computer at my hotel and others are waiting, so I'll have to get to the rest of your post later...
Woooops...I just re-read my last post...that should have been "sky-writer"...
QUOTE (BDW hiding inside of a sock puppet+)
Oh, an I'm real curious as to why ya seem to think that me supposedly bein a sockpuppet an dislikin you would make me a bad daddy. I can't wait to hear the reasonin behind [b]that[/] one...
BDW hiding inside of a sock puppet: Your "wait" is over. As we both know, unless you've totally gone off the deep end, you're not "supposedly a sock puppet", but you are a sock puppet. Here's your own confession:
http://saposjoint.cjb.net/Forum/viewtopic....t&sd=a&start=10
BDW hiding inside of a sock puppet: Your "wait" is over. As we both know, unless you've totally gone off the deep end, you're not "supposedly a sock puppet", but you are a sock puppet. Here's your own confession:
http://saposjoint.cjb.net/Forum/viewtopic....t&sd=a&start=10
QUOTE (BDW+ BDW's Farewell Address At Physorg May 23 2008)
I reckon I oughtta go ahead an spread the word now, even though the mods saw fit not to ban me for all that cursing...
Ol' Thunder Britches is me. I made him a while back as a test, to see if anyone got it. (Sapo did.) In his first two or three da
Ol' Thunder Britches is me. I made him a while back as a test, to see if anyone got it. (Sapo did.) In his first two or three da