I was thinking about what it would be like if our consciousness did in fact survive after death. Now I do make the assumption that after death, our consciousness has no mass, as it is freed from the bonds of matter which is our physical body. Consciousness would behave like light and would perceive the universe the same as a photon does, traveling at the speed of light!
From an observers point of view, a photon takes a measurable amount of time to travel from it’s source to destination, say, the span of the visible universe (approx 28 billion light years). But, from the photons point of view, it takes no time at all, literally. The universe would appear compressed to a point where source and destination reside at the same location. And, it’s entire life span cannot be measured, it’s so short.
So, my thoughts are with consciousness surviving after death, that when you die, the universe you occupy, would shrink away and disappear as your consciousness reaches the escape velocity of the universe. I think that after that, the consciousness must obviously completely leave our universe and thus (and I hate to use the term) ‘ascend’ to a higher dimension or plane.
In this higher dimension, entire universes (i.e. like ours) would be like the quantum foam, particles that exist for a fleeting moment and then disappear back into the vacuum.
So, am I on drugs, or is this worth a discussion?
Cheers
Always is. The spark of life (consciousness) is always there child growing up, adolescent with whoremones moaning, aged, death, birth...........................
QUOTE (did+Oct 21 2008, 08:05 AM)
I was thinking about what it would be like if our consciousness did in fact survive after death. Now I do make the assumption that after death, our consciousness has no mass, as it is freed from the bonds of matter which is our physical body. Consciousness would behave like light and would perceive the universe the same as a photon does, traveling at the speed of light!
Hi did,
Be wary of 'consciousness'. Reading your post it seems like you believe that consciousness is somehow separate from the physical body; brain, nervous system etc. But why should this be so?
We do not see without eyes, we do not hear without ears, we do not smell without a nose, we do not taste without a tongue, we do not think without a brain....et al.
Hi did,
Be wary of 'consciousness'. Reading your post it seems like you believe that consciousness is somehow separate from the physical body; brain, nervous system etc. But why should this be so?
We do not see without eyes, we do not hear without ears, we do not smell without a nose, we do not taste without a tongue, we do not think without a brain....et al.
hi eyeque,
thanks for your reply.
Are you referring to reincarnation in your reply?
I don't actually believe in reincarnation! As this post is just a thought experiment,
I'm exploring a 'what if' scenario. I guess that consciousness would have to have 'some' mass so as not to be able to reach the universes escape velocity and remain within our realm.
Cheers
thanks for your reply.
Are you referring to reincarnation in your reply?
I don't actually believe in reincarnation! As this post is just a thought experiment,
I'm exploring a 'what if' scenario. I guess that consciousness would have to have 'some' mass so as not to be able to reach the universes escape velocity and remain within our realm.
Cheers
hi Sinister Utopia,
thanks for your warning, I don't think you have anything to worry about thou, as I completely agree with what you are saying. But, it can't hurt to imagine the scenario I suggest, and then explore the idea a bit.
Cheers
thanks for your warning, I don't think you have anything to worry about thou, as I completely agree with what you are saying. But, it can't hurt to imagine the scenario I suggest, and then explore the idea a bit.
Cheers
hi Fairy,
I think you may have started without me ;-)
Cheers
I think you may have started without me ;-)
Cheers
QUOTE (did+Oct 21 2008, 08:48 AM)
hi Sinister Utopia,
thanks for your warning, I don't think you have anything to worry about thou, as I completely agree with what you are saying. But, it can't hurt to imagine the scenario I suggest, and then explore the idea a bit.
Cheers
Hi did,
Firstly, I am not worried. When imaging your idea, one must establish what could survive after death and still qualify as conscious experience. Without a body/brain etc, even 'IF' some part of you survived what processes would still be able to comprehend the departure?
Perhaps a more Religious or Spiritualist forum would be a better place to explore these notions or maybe PM poster 'Tickets/Voodoochile'. He/She claims to have visited this higher dimension and to have traveled at 'c' . I'm sure they'd be happy to discuss these things with you.
thanks for your warning, I don't think you have anything to worry about thou, as I completely agree with what you are saying. But, it can't hurt to imagine the scenario I suggest, and then explore the idea a bit.
Cheers
Hi did,
Firstly, I am not worried. When imaging your idea, one must establish what could survive after death and still qualify as conscious experience. Without a body/brain etc, even 'IF' some part of you survived what processes would still be able to comprehend the departure?
Perhaps a more Religious or Spiritualist forum would be a better place to explore these notions or maybe PM poster 'Tickets/Voodoochile'. He/She claims to have visited this higher dimension and to have traveled at 'c' . I'm sure they'd be happy to discuss these things with you.
You may want to consider the concept of the Boltzmann brain effect-- a bit of a possible and strange presence in the universe.
QUOTE (did+Oct 21 2008, 04:05 AM)
I was thinking about what it would be like if our consciousness did in fact survive after death. Now I do make the assumption that after death, our consciousness has no mass, as it is freed from the bonds of matter which is our physical body. Consciousness would behave like light and would perceive the universe the same as a photon does, traveling at the speed of light!
From an observers point of view, a photon takes a measurable amount of time to travel from it’s source to destination, say, the span of the visible universe (approx 28 billion light years). But, from the photons point of view, it takes no time at all, literally. The universe would appear compressed to a point where source and destination reside at the same location. And, it’s entire life span cannot be measured, it’s so short.
So, my thoughts are with consciousness surviving after death, that when you die, the universe you occupy, would shrink away and disappear as your consciousness reaches the escape velocity of the universe. I think that after that, the consciousness must obviously completely leave our universe and thus (and I hate to use the term) ‘ascend’ to a higher dimension or plane.
In this higher dimension, entire universes (i.e. like ours) would be like the quantum foam, particles that exist for a fleeting moment and then disappear back into the vacuum.
So, am I on drugs, or is this worth a discussion?
Cheers
"Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter," Yoda
Not that anyone can prove that this happens after death, but it is an interesting thought. If one becomes light, then they would be so different than the world they left behind. Religious people should think about this. God would not see time as we do. He took 400 years to rescue the Israelites from Egypt (Book of Exodus) and he did not think He was at all late. (Einstein being Jewish, I wonder if he thought about this one).
There was one person of a mystic inclination that noticed something like this. Interestingly enough, he lived in the 1700's. He was the visionary Emmanuel Swedenborg. He claimed to have gone on all sorts of heavenly journeys. He said there is no time only state. Also there is no space, no here or there.
From an observers point of view, a photon takes a measurable amount of time to travel from it’s source to destination, say, the span of the visible universe (approx 28 billion light years). But, from the photons point of view, it takes no time at all, literally. The universe would appear compressed to a point where source and destination reside at the same location. And, it’s entire life span cannot be measured, it’s so short.
So, my thoughts are with consciousness surviving after death, that when you die, the universe you occupy, would shrink away and disappear as your consciousness reaches the escape velocity of the universe. I think that after that, the consciousness must obviously completely leave our universe and thus (and I hate to use the term) ‘ascend’ to a higher dimension or plane.
In this higher dimension, entire universes (i.e. like ours) would be like the quantum foam, particles that exist for a fleeting moment and then disappear back into the vacuum.
So, am I on drugs, or is this worth a discussion?
Cheers
"Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter," Yoda
Not that anyone can prove that this happens after death, but it is an interesting thought. If one becomes light, then they would be so different than the world they left behind. Religious people should think about this. God would not see time as we do. He took 400 years to rescue the Israelites from Egypt (Book of Exodus) and he did not think He was at all late. (Einstein being Jewish, I wonder if he thought about this one).
There was one person of a mystic inclination that noticed something like this. Interestingly enough, he lived in the 1700's. He was the visionary Emmanuel Swedenborg. He claimed to have gone on all sorts of heavenly journeys. He said there is no time only state. Also there is no space, no here or there.
Hi did, Empress Palpatine, DocN, Fairy, Sinister Utopia et al
Lets accept for a moment that some kind of "life after death" exists "naturally" as some by-product of "Darwinian" Evolution. I am assuming that a "g*d" has no direct role in this process. It would need to exist at the same time as we exist and interact in some way with us to account for all those "spooky happenings" that occasionally go on. I would be the last one to deny that "these things occasionally do happen". Our "essence", whatever that means, needs to be "captured" and bound in some natural system for it to remain an "essence" of the way we were in life because "life" requires a "body" to experience things. It also seems (from the historical perspective) self evident that this "essence" seems to be bound to some aspect that contained or circumscribed it in life. It could be a house, some place or building. These all have one thing in common... matter. A human being is composed of matter and mass which expresses gravity and gravitational influence cannot be blocked and can pass through anything ... way out to the furthermost reaches of the Universe. It is also obvious since gravity and thus the influence of mater waves are constrained by he speed of light are diffracted and scattered but without dissipation like ordinary light is scattered and dissipated.
"Close in" it seems plausible that the strongest "impression" will be local to the physical objects while still in life (things you touched, were in contact with, were near you at the moment you died)... Sort of like the way plasticine takes the shape of a key when it is pressed into it. A hologram is usually formed using a photographic plate and no lens, a "scene being globally excited by a short exposure to some kind of "impressing source"... mostly a coherent laser. Holograms can also be made by embossing on a surface (you have seen these)... even with scratches in an optical plate, a scratch hologram, anything can make a "hologram".
Perhaps our "coherent message" or "essence" upon dying or during some traumatic event is impressed into the walls and floors and other objects around about in the same way a magnetic field can be "frozen" into a iron rod if the rod of iron is struck with a hammer while pointing due north-south at the time.. An "aligned" shock or impulse in life. This causes some kind of "impression" which is retained. This means when the residual "hologram" of this event is illuminated by an appropriate source of similar coherent energy it causes the original matter wave image to be played back. Since matter waves are not optical waves we can't actually see them unless the matter waves diffract and scatter light "indirectly". Matter (wave or no wave) have matter like properties while light has properties only of light. The former are capable of matter wave manipulations and act on "things" and traditionally cannot dissipate easily while light needs to have Orbital Angular Momentum to act on matter at a distance but is "easily dissipated". Permanence vs impermanence. It may be important to the formation of the original "image" to have some kind of "light source" but later the matter wave "impression" may not need light to exist but may need something to "switch it on".
That is the best I can do. The rest is "religion", burning of incense, ringing of bells, saying of prayers. self flagellation and hair shirts, rewards and punishments, heaven and hell, tithing, hellfire and brimstone etc... I have this magic bottle of "snake oil" I would like to sell you which works wonders on all cancers, bodily functions and wards off death or flatulence...
I do not think these "physical" things are directly associated with any deity... They are all part of the basic fears that motivate mankind and the stuff of our nightmares. They would be "natural", currently you will get no tenure if you want to pursue this line of scientific investigation. What is more important to you... Eternal Life or a well paying job in the Future's Exchange? Which "future" is more important... the markets will decide... he he he!
Maybe some future generations will find ways to preserve the "essence" and store them for many thousands of years in quantum computers in a simulation of our world in the space of a 5 cent coin so that "we" or our "essence" can enjoy a "quality" afterlife... for a "stiff" price of course!
Lucky stiff's eh? You may be playing endless rounds of CounterStrike "forever"... bliss or hell?... I dunno!... reboot!
Wikipedia: The Thirteenth Floor
Cheers
QUOTE
I was thinking about what it would be like if our consciousness did in fact survive after death. Now I do make the assumption that after death, our consciousness has no mass, as it is freed from the bonds of matter which is our physical body. Consciousness would behave like light and would perceive the universe the same as a photon does, traveling at the speed of light!
From an observers point of view, a photon takes a measurable amount of time to travel from it’s source to destination, say, the span of the visible universe (approx 28 billion light years). But, from the photons point of view, it takes no time at all, literally. The universe would appear compressed to a point where source and destination reside at the same location. And, it’s entire life span cannot be measured, it’s so short.
So, my thoughts are with consciousness surviving after death, that when you die, the universe you occupy, would shrink away and disappear as your consciousness reaches the escape velocity of the universe. I think that after that, the consciousness must obviously completely leave our universe and thus (and I hate to use the term) ‘ascend’ to a higher dimension or plane.
In this higher dimension, entire universes (i.e. like ours) would be like the quantum foam, particles that exist for a fleeting moment and then disappear back into the vacuum.
So, am I on drugs, or is this worth a discussion?
Every idea is worth a "crack" at as long as we are speaking about some kind of science. I am with you all the way about the photon bit... sure... the photon can exist in our time for billions of our years and cross many Galaxies and also may be considered as an object on a "null geodesic". Time and space according to Relativity "squeezed out of existence". However I would hasten to add that the photon is rather special and can only experience that one state. The limiting case of a material object close to the speed of light, "like you for instance", approximates that null geodesic (though a lot of energy would be required to accelerate any object to these speeds. Time and space would still exist for any material object it is just that relative to "our" time and space it would not occupy any significant role.From an observers point of view, a photon takes a measurable amount of time to travel from it’s source to destination, say, the span of the visible universe (approx 28 billion light years). But, from the photons point of view, it takes no time at all, literally. The universe would appear compressed to a point where source and destination reside at the same location. And, it’s entire life span cannot be measured, it’s so short.
So, my thoughts are with consciousness surviving after death, that when you die, the universe you occupy, would shrink away and disappear as your consciousness reaches the escape velocity of the universe. I think that after that, the consciousness must obviously completely leave our universe and thus (and I hate to use the term) ‘ascend’ to a higher dimension or plane.
In this higher dimension, entire universes (i.e. like ours) would be like the quantum foam, particles that exist for a fleeting moment and then disappear back into the vacuum.
So, am I on drugs, or is this worth a discussion?
Lets accept for a moment that some kind of "life after death" exists "naturally" as some by-product of "Darwinian" Evolution. I am assuming that a "g*d" has no direct role in this process. It would need to exist at the same time as we exist and interact in some way with us to account for all those "spooky happenings" that occasionally go on. I would be the last one to deny that "these things occasionally do happen". Our "essence", whatever that means, needs to be "captured" and bound in some natural system for it to remain an "essence" of the way we were in life because "life" requires a "body" to experience things. It also seems (from the historical perspective) self evident that this "essence" seems to be bound to some aspect that contained or circumscribed it in life. It could be a house, some place or building. These all have one thing in common... matter. A human being is composed of matter and mass which expresses gravity and gravitational influence cannot be blocked and can pass through anything ... way out to the furthermost reaches of the Universe. It is also obvious since gravity and thus the influence of mater waves are constrained by he speed of light are diffracted and scattered but without dissipation like ordinary light is scattered and dissipated.
"Close in" it seems plausible that the strongest "impression" will be local to the physical objects while still in life (things you touched, were in contact with, were near you at the moment you died)... Sort of like the way plasticine takes the shape of a key when it is pressed into it. A hologram is usually formed using a photographic plate and no lens, a "scene being globally excited by a short exposure to some kind of "impressing source"... mostly a coherent laser. Holograms can also be made by embossing on a surface (you have seen these)... even with scratches in an optical plate, a scratch hologram, anything can make a "hologram".
Perhaps our "coherent message" or "essence" upon dying or during some traumatic event is impressed into the walls and floors and other objects around about in the same way a magnetic field can be "frozen" into a iron rod if the rod of iron is struck with a hammer while pointing due north-south at the time.. An "aligned" shock or impulse in life. This causes some kind of "impression" which is retained. This means when the residual "hologram" of this event is illuminated by an appropriate source of similar coherent energy it causes the original matter wave image to be played back. Since matter waves are not optical waves we can't actually see them unless the matter waves diffract and scatter light "indirectly". Matter (wave or no wave) have matter like properties while light has properties only of light. The former are capable of matter wave manipulations and act on "things" and traditionally cannot dissipate easily while light needs to have Orbital Angular Momentum to act on matter at a distance but is "easily dissipated". Permanence vs impermanence. It may be important to the formation of the original "image" to have some kind of "light source" but later the matter wave "impression" may not need light to exist but may need something to "switch it on".
That is the best I can do. The rest is "religion", burning of incense, ringing of bells, saying of prayers. self flagellation and hair shirts, rewards and punishments, heaven and hell, tithing, hellfire and brimstone etc... I have this magic bottle of "snake oil" I would like to sell you which works wonders on all cancers, bodily functions and wards off death or flatulence...
I do not think these "physical" things are directly associated with any deity... They are all part of the basic fears that motivate mankind and the stuff of our nightmares. They would be "natural", currently you will get no tenure if you want to pursue this line of scientific investigation. What is more important to you... Eternal Life or a well paying job in the Future's Exchange? Which "future" is more important... the markets will decide... he he he!Maybe some future generations will find ways to preserve the "essence" and store them for many thousands of years in quantum computers in a simulation of our world in the space of a 5 cent coin so that "we" or our "essence" can enjoy a "quality" afterlife... for a "stiff" price of course!
Lucky stiff's eh? You may be playing endless rounds of CounterStrike "forever"... bliss or hell?... I dunno!... reboot!Wikipedia: The Thirteenth Floor
Cheers
Hi all,
I'm all for exploring the idea of attempting to visualise seeing the Universe from different perspectives. In fact it can be a good way of learning. What I don't understand is the necessity for someone to die for this to be a viable thought experiment. As I have alluded to earlier, consciousness MUST rely on the physical body/mind/brain to be active to see, comprehend and knowingly experience anything! Otherwise what is the point of having physicality at all?
For me the idea is more viable if we pretend that some kind of technology is invented that somehow allows us to visualise from abstract perspectives as has been described perhaps. No need to invoke death, gods, spirits, demons at all.
Just my 2pence worth, as you were.
I'm all for exploring the idea of attempting to visualise seeing the Universe from different perspectives. In fact it can be a good way of learning. What I don't understand is the necessity for someone to die for this to be a viable thought experiment. As I have alluded to earlier, consciousness MUST rely on the physical body/mind/brain to be active to see, comprehend and knowingly experience anything! Otherwise what is the point of having physicality at all?
For me the idea is more viable if we pretend that some kind of technology is invented that somehow allows us to visualise from abstract perspectives as has been described perhaps. No need to invoke death, gods, spirits, demons at all.
Just my 2pence worth, as you were.
QUOTE (Fairy+Oct 22 2008, 10:43 AM)
take more drugs
Ironically, our species is still recovering from the hangovers of ancient drug takers.
It's probably where the notions of an 'Extra Spirituality/Higher Dimension etc, etc' arose in the first place.
QUOTE (Sinister Utopia+Oct 22 2008, 10:11 AM)
For me the idea is more viable if we pretend that some kind of technology is invented that somehow allows us to visualise from abstract perspectives as has been described perhaps. No need to invoke death, gods, spirits, demons at all.
That's right, and I will shortly present three or four ideas for experiments that will do just that.
QUOTE (Fairy+Oct 23 2008, 10:04 AM)
ironically in my view its also how we evolved consciousness/self awareness in the 1st place
ps: i would really like to start a thread about how organism have opiate receptors and how and when they evolved and for what specific purpose, seeing that opiate alkaloids are limited to certain varieties of plants? and any other drugs of that class are either synthetic or semi-synthetic, anyone wanna go?
Interesting idea.
We are already dead. So there is no thing as after death.
We we're dead 2000 year ago. But the spark of life continues!!!!, Your a child growing up with adolescent whoremones moaning, with plenty of Chicky babe sluts sucking and begging or a f'ing up the bare a-ss!!!!! The spark of life goes on `ad infinium' (Excuse my Latin, I would like to use some hard core French lol)
Yes but growing up is not the same as alive.
QUOTE (Fairy+Oct 24 2008, 09:10 PM)
well any takers? 
Why don't you start the thread and see?
Why don't you start the thread and see?
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