lengould
25th August 2005 - 03:08 AM
QUOTE (Brian+Aug 23 2005, 11:07 PM)
QUOTE
Anyone who's raised a pet dog already knew that.
I think this is quite different from what happens in dogs. Dogs do not pass on acquired knowledge to their young.
A monkey can learn how to crack open a shellfish, and pass on that particular technique to other members of his troop, establishing a cultural norm. Other troops can have different approaches to tasks. This is the "culture" they are referring to.
Actually, I am aware of the "100 monkeys" types of observational research on the Macaques of the pacific islands, among others. But i also grew up on a farm/ranch, where we observed, while monitoring groups in wildlands throughought summer releases, even the "extremely dumb" domestic cow teaching their offspring some surprisingly complex skills. All bloodlines/maternities were carefully tracked, as is normal in the industry, and certain maternal lines would consistently exhibit some quite unexpected behaviors. Such as knowing how to defeat particular gate latch types, or fencing configurations.
We also depended on a series of guard / herder dogs, and they're a lot smarter, at least the big working dogs.
Chimpanzee
26th August 2005 - 12:36 PM
It's about time you "discovered" our superior culture. You dumb primates; it took you two thousand years to devise a toilette. You just started to develop your pitiful brains, and you are all fat and ugly.
Carbonflux
28th August 2005 - 08:28 AM
I think this is an animal rights issue.
I think the way we treat animals is a fourm of slavery
This is why we rationalise these efforts to 'find' or 'prove' animal culture.
Scientic hubris in this matter is a crime against sentient life that I assume someday people will see in the same light has slavery.
'Science' needs to prove animals Don't have a culture.
I have never seen an animal that did not have some kind of culture.
Best Regards
Ben
29th August 2005 - 02:27 PM
What are we testing or looking for or trying to prove. Are we testing to see how stupid we are or how stupid the rest of the species are.
Dos prove give other animal more rights, don't we feel already what we are try to prove or disprove.
Its not because most of use don't see it, or don't recognise that it isn't there. How "small" will we permit us to be to be on the same level as the rest?
What do we have to lose?
I have a fish I had some cats I know some birts and dogs an cows and so furth, I know them as persons not as human. I have seen them learn and discover. This in an surroundings that has no tutors or old family members. In an surroundings of suppression and still.
"Animal" like we call them are the "niger, the slaves " of today are they not...
Krista
1st September 2005 - 05:25 PM
As I see it, the issue is more than just the fact that chimpanzees have culture, or other animals for that matter. The important thing is the transmission of what is learned. If chimp #3 from group A was moved to a new group lacking any family members, would he/she still teach what was previously used in group A?
Quite frankly, the acquisition of language by early humans is one of the hotbeds of paleoanthropology, and understanding the extent to which other primates can communicate affects many of the theories surrounding brain development and physical adaptations to be able to produce speech. Depending on how conclusive the research becomes, it could help clarify the evolution of anthropoids.
Grugon
1st September 2005 - 07:55 PM
I believe all of you have failed to understand the analogy here. The chimpanzees in this case would be young westerners and europeans who transmit their stupidity to the others as if it were actually a culture.