I heard that a spark could at least separate the double atom.
It also recombines.
Same for all double molecules.
Is this perpetual motion or unexplained by present day physics?
So it burns and recombines... thats free energy to me.
No exhaust.
There are two problems with this:
First, the energy that comes out when the double molecule recombines is EXACTLY the same amount as the energy the molecule absorbed from the original spark, so you don't get any more energy out than you put in.
Second, Helium is not a double molecule. It is chemically inert, and its molecule is just a single atom.
Hope this helps!
--Stuart Anderson
First, the energy that comes out when the double molecule recombines is EXACTLY the same amount as the energy the molecule absorbed from the original spark, so you don't get any more energy out than you put in.
Second, Helium is not a double molecule. It is chemically inert, and its molecule is just a single atom.
Hope this helps!
--Stuart Anderson
Basic chemistry/physics : The energy required to break bonds is the same as energy released when those bonds are formed.
QUOTE
It is chemically inert
I thought so too until recently. Apparently a number of ions involving helium and even a few neutral molecules have been formed using it, but only in extreme circumstances.
Usually burning involves oxygen, for the most part. Oxygen doesn't react with oxygen except in temporary endothermic reactions. If by burn you mean a nuclear burn, or 2He->Be, that would generate energy.
He/She said 'spark' which suggests just chemical, rather than nuclear, reactions.
Though not totally relevent, He-4 + He-4 -> Be-8 is an extremely unstable reaction and almost always splits back to the two heliums again. It's an extremely important point however that Be-8+He-4 -> C-12*, where * represents the fact it's in a resonance level and quickly spits out a gamma ray to lower it's energy level.
That resonance is essential to large scale production of carbon in stars, without it we might not be around.
Though not totally relevent, He-4 + He-4 -> Be-8 is an extremely unstable reaction and almost always splits back to the two heliums again. It's an extremely important point however that Be-8+He-4 -> C-12*, where * represents the fact it's in a resonance level and quickly spits out a gamma ray to lower it's energy level.
That resonance is essential to large scale production of carbon in stars, without it we might not be around.
Did BMW make a Helium engine ?
Guess not.
A spark might dislodge an electron causing further heating.
Helium exhausted and cooled can capture an electron and be ready for the
next spark.
All atoms under atomic weight 16 might have a diatomic form.
So I am only using that form, if it exists.
Thanks for you answers, I would not get them on other forums.
Guess not.
A spark might dislodge an electron causing further heating.
Helium exhausted and cooled can capture an electron and be ready for the
next spark.
All atoms under atomic weight 16 might have a diatomic form.
So I am only using that form, if it exists.
Thanks for you answers, I would not get them on other forums.
Helium is a Noble gas which makes it a monoatomic gas under all but the most extreme conditions (liquid helium is made by cooling to below a few Kelvin).
Im not sure what you mean by "Helium exhausted and cooled can capture an electron and be ready for the next spark." if you want to store electrons, try using a capacitor.
Im not sure what you mean by "Helium exhausted and cooled can capture an electron and be ready for the next spark." if you want to store electrons, try using a capacitor.
QUOTE (Guest_airlinemusic+Jul 22 2006, 03:28 AM)
All atoms under atomic weight 16 might have a diatomic form.
So I am only using that form, if it exists.
Why? Lithium is a metal, it doesn't work covalent compounds in the same way non-metals usually do and certainly not with itself.
To get energy from a fuel, you have to have a substance which has a lot of internal energy, through chemical or nuclear bonds. You do something to it (like burn it) and the total amount of energy in the bonds after is less than the total energy in the bonds before. The difference in energy goes into heat and drives a car piston or a generator or pushes electrons through a torch.
You're talking about just messing about with helium's electron shell. Since helium doesn't naturally bond to anything, there's no energy to be got from messing with it's electron shell. You cannot get what isn't there.
So I am only using that form, if it exists.
Why? Lithium is a metal, it doesn't work covalent compounds in the same way non-metals usually do and certainly not with itself.
QUOTE
Helium exhausted and cooled can capture an electron and be ready for the
next spark.
Not following what you're saying. Just cooling helium isn't going to make it capture an electron.next spark.
To get energy from a fuel, you have to have a substance which has a lot of internal energy, through chemical or nuclear bonds. You do something to it (like burn it) and the total amount of energy in the bonds after is less than the total energy in the bonds before. The difference in energy goes into heat and drives a car piston or a generator or pushes electrons through a torch.
You're talking about just messing about with helium's electron shell. Since helium doesn't naturally bond to anything, there's no energy to be got from messing with it's electron shell. You cannot get what isn't there.
Easy,
Heat the gas up into a near plasma state....introduce something slightly reactive like Hafnium
...and Bob's yer uncle. 
Heat the gas up into a near plasma state....introduce something slightly reactive like Hafnium
...and Bob's yer uncle.
Ok lets try a Nobel gas mixture.
Thanks again for the discussion.
Patent info
AEROPS
Title: US3977191: Atomic expansion reflex optics power optics power source (AEROPS) engine
[ Derwent Title ]
Country: US United States of America
View Images High
Resolution
Low
Resolution
9 pages
Inventor: Britt, Robert Gordon; Salisbury, NC 28144
Assignee: None
Published / Filed: 1976-08-31 / 1974-08-14
Application Number: US1974000497335
IPC Code: Advanced: F01K 3/18; F01K 25/00;
Core: F01K 3/00; more...
IPC-7: F01K 25/06;
U.S. Class: Current: 060/509; 060/513; 060/721; 219/121.36; 313/643;
Original: 060/509; 060/513; 060/721; 219/121.P; 313/226;
Field of Search: 060/508-515,651,671,650,680,669 313/226 219/21 P
Priority Number:
1974-08-14 US1974000497335
Abstract: An engine is provided which will greatly reduce atmospheric pollution and noise by providing a sealed system engine power source which has no exhaust nor intake ports. The engine includes a spherical hollow pressure chamber which is provided with a reflecting mirror surface. A noble gas mixture within the chamber is energized by electrodes and work is derived from the expansion of the gas mixture against a piston.
Primary / Asst. Examiners: Ostrager, Allen M.;
Family: None
First Claim:
Show all 12 claims What is new and therefore desired to be protected by Letters Patent of the United States is: 1. An atomic expansion reflex optics power source comprising:
* a plurality of pressure chambers, each having a reflecting mirror surface on its inside wall, and each having heat transfer fins and tubes as an integral part thereof, said plurality of pressure chambers having a plurality of electrodes extending into the inside of said pressure chambers, said electrodes being connected to a source of electrical voltage pulses, said pressure chambers being charged with a noble gas mixture under pressure, and
* means to generate heat, pressure and power in said noble gas mixture within said plurality of pressure chambers.
Background / Summary: Show background / summary
Drawing Descriptions: Show drawing descriptions
Description: Show description
Forward References: Show 2 U.S. patent(s) that reference this one
U.S. References: Go to Result Set: All U.S. references | Forward references (2) | Backward references (2) | Citation Link
Buy
PDF Patent Pub.Date Inventor Assignee Title
Buy PDF- 11pp US3398686 1968-08 Guin LIQUID SHOCK MOTOR AND PUMPING DEVICE
Buy PDF- 6pp US3609965 1971-10 Hercher INTERNAL STEAM GENERATING ENGINE
Foreign References: None
So it works by atomic recapture of an electron from ???, well I guess
it just gets one back from air or radiation or combination in existence
all around us. So electron capture is free, and a helium (well Nobel gas
mixture) engine works?
There a liquid air cycle involved in another device but I can't figure that
one out too well. Story goes that Tesla had a working device, his lab
burned and a patent was file in Germany for the process not too soon after.
Thanks again for the discussion.
Patent info
AEROPS
Title: US3977191: Atomic expansion reflex optics power optics power source (AEROPS) engine
[ Derwent Title ]
Country: US United States of America
View Images High
Resolution
Low
Resolution
9 pages
Inventor: Britt, Robert Gordon; Salisbury, NC 28144
Assignee: None
Published / Filed: 1976-08-31 / 1974-08-14
Application Number: US1974000497335
IPC Code: Advanced: F01K 3/18; F01K 25/00;
Core: F01K 3/00; more...
IPC-7: F01K 25/06;
U.S. Class: Current: 060/509; 060/513; 060/721; 219/121.36; 313/643;
Original: 060/509; 060/513; 060/721; 219/121.P; 313/226;
Field of Search: 060/508-515,651,671,650,680,669 313/226 219/21 P
Priority Number:
1974-08-14 US1974000497335
Abstract: An engine is provided which will greatly reduce atmospheric pollution and noise by providing a sealed system engine power source which has no exhaust nor intake ports. The engine includes a spherical hollow pressure chamber which is provided with a reflecting mirror surface. A noble gas mixture within the chamber is energized by electrodes and work is derived from the expansion of the gas mixture against a piston.
Primary / Asst. Examiners: Ostrager, Allen M.;
Family: None
First Claim:
Show all 12 claims What is new and therefore desired to be protected by Letters Patent of the United States is: 1. An atomic expansion reflex optics power source comprising:
* a plurality of pressure chambers, each having a reflecting mirror surface on its inside wall, and each having heat transfer fins and tubes as an integral part thereof, said plurality of pressure chambers having a plurality of electrodes extending into the inside of said pressure chambers, said electrodes being connected to a source of electrical voltage pulses, said pressure chambers being charged with a noble gas mixture under pressure, and
* means to generate heat, pressure and power in said noble gas mixture within said plurality of pressure chambers.
Background / Summary: Show background / summary
Drawing Descriptions: Show drawing descriptions
Description: Show description
Forward References: Show 2 U.S. patent(s) that reference this one
U.S. References: Go to Result Set: All U.S. references | Forward references (2) | Backward references (2) | Citation Link
Buy
PDF Patent Pub.Date Inventor Assignee Title
Buy PDF- 11pp US3398686 1968-08 Guin LIQUID SHOCK MOTOR AND PUMPING DEVICE
Buy PDF- 6pp US3609965 1971-10 Hercher INTERNAL STEAM GENERATING ENGINE
Foreign References: None
So it works by atomic recapture of an electron from ???, well I guess
it just gets one back from air or radiation or combination in existence
all around us. So electron capture is free, and a helium (well Nobel gas
mixture) engine works?
There a liquid air cycle involved in another device but I can't figure that
one out too well. Story goes that Tesla had a working device, his lab
burned and a patent was file in Germany for the process not too soon after.
QUOTE (fivedoughnut+Jul 22 2006, 02:04 PM)
Easy,
Heat the gas up into a near plasma state....introduce something slightly reactive like Hafnium ...and Bob's yer uncle.
Hafnium?....what was I thinking
...Pehaps at high temp & pressure helium might react with fluorine. 
Heat the gas up into a near plasma state....introduce something slightly reactive like Hafnium
...and Bob's yer uncle. Hafnium?....what was I thinking
...Pehaps at high temp & pressure helium might react with fluorine.
QUOTE (fivedoughnut+Jul 23 2006, 05:09 AM)
Hafnium?....what was I thinking :blink: ...Perhaps at high temp & pressure helium might react with fluorine. :)
But some kind of spark might dislodge an electron from He.
Is He on the Sun or is it Hydrogen that is missing.
If He has a spectrum then some electrons are jumping shells.
Neon gas lights exhibit how electrons recover.
It appears the patent through off the oil companies by stating optical.
I didn't check who owns it now.
If initial energy is great, the gas is re-chambered to recover.
Recovery, or continuous absorption (Einstein's B), recovers the gas's
electrons. I heard absorption or recovery energy in some case is more
than the energy given off but is from aether and is free of charge.
But some kind of spark might dislodge an electron from He.
Is He on the Sun or is it Hydrogen that is missing.
If He has a spectrum then some electrons are jumping shells.
Neon gas lights exhibit how electrons recover.
It appears the patent through off the oil companies by stating optical.
I didn't check who owns it now.
If initial energy is great, the gas is re-chambered to recover.
Recovery, or continuous absorption (Einstein's B), recovers the gas's
electrons. I heard absorption or recovery energy in some case is more
than the energy given off but is from aether and is free of charge.
QUOTE
Abstract: An engine is provided which will greatly reduce atmospheric pollution and noise by providing a sealed system engine power source which has no exhaust nor intake ports. The engine includes a spherical hollow pressure chamber which is provided with a reflecting mirror surface. A noble gas mixture within the chamber is energized by electrodes and work is derived from the expansion of the gas mixture against a piston.
Looks to me that you have more than just helium and perhaps no helium at all. It just says a noble gas mixture. The thing with noble gas is when you pass a current through it light is given off. Being mono-atomic, when you have noble gases trapped in a chamber you essentially have a jar of atoms. When electricity is passed through the gas the atoms will bump up in energy level. Under normal circumstances (fluorescent lights) the atoms drop back down in energy level by releasing photons. What they have done is lined the inside with mirrors that will capture the photons and resend them back into the gas mixture. So unlike the light, when the current is sent through the gas the gas becomes reactive and remains reactive for as long as the current is passing through it. The mixture then reacts with itself causing expansion of the gas. When the current ceases the gas mixture returns to its natural state as mono-atomic noble gas.
Noble gas is inert due to its valence electrons. If you send an electric current through the gas the atoms increase in energy level. When an atom increases in energy level the atom's electrons will jump up in energy level. This can give the atom an unstable valent electron shell. Under normal circumstances the atom would at this point release a photon allowing the atom to return to its stable self but with the mirrors constantly sending the photons back in with no drop in energy level themselves than the atoms re-receive these photons at a constant rate and so can not return to its formal stable self. Now the atoms have to find another way to stabilize themselves. The only option left is to develop covalent bonds with each other.
As soon as the current ceases than the atoms are once again allowed to drop back down in energy level which means they're covalent bond is no longer possible and so they break the bond between them to return to their most stable state.
May I summarize?
Helium may glow. There is no free energy in this.
Aloha
Helium may glow. There is no free energy in this.
Aloha
Post duplicate. Please delete.
This is a form of Einsteins coefficients for stimulated emissions.
Lasar atoms of some emission frequency is stimulated by a light
flash of another frequency.
Neon signs are fairly hot, so a chambered mixture might power a Tesla
Turbine with hot gasses and recombine to be injected into the spark
chamber.
http://www.delphion.com/details?pn=US03977191__
Two companies are using it.
Lasar atoms of some emission frequency is stimulated by a light
flash of another frequency.
Neon signs are fairly hot, so a chambered mixture might power a Tesla
Turbine with hot gasses and recombine to be injected into the spark
chamber.
http://www.delphion.com/details?pn=US03977191__
Two companies are using it.
The engine looks like a sort of "steam engine," with a closed loop of noble gasses. The gasses aren't chemically reacting as a fuel, they are being electrically heated. The mirrored surfaces prolly to reflect the photons given off by the noble gasses back into the chamber for further heating efficiency. Indeed, noble gasses would be used because they rather non-reactive, thus at higher pressures and temperatures and in excited states, they will return to their original states after cooling/doing work.
So this isn't a way to produce energy, but merely a means of transferring stored electric energy into mechanical energy.
As it has been pointed out, noble gasses can be made to react, but this requires a lot of energy put into it and produces unstable compounds.
So this isn't a way to produce energy, but merely a means of transferring stored electric energy into mechanical energy.
As it has been pointed out, noble gasses can be made to react, but this requires a lot of energy put into it and produces unstable compounds.
Thanks for those posts.
I wonder if those neon lights or fluorescent lamps give off more heat than
given in electrical input.
One 'free energy' device from Tesla that was too easy to keep and
not be suppressed.
The whole idea of 'free energy' is a suppression agenda.
The Tesla Turbine (most efficient turbine) working from a hot inert gas
input might be something to calibrate.
I mentioned this on another forum, however I'm not that cool on working
with a gas that kills. We need air.
I almost forgot to mention a story about defrosting ol' time refrigerators using an
ice pick, some one lost air almost died and ruined his refrigerator when he
punctured a refrigerant channel.
I wonder if those neon lights or fluorescent lamps give off more heat than
given in electrical input.
One 'free energy' device from Tesla that was too easy to keep and
not be suppressed.
The whole idea of 'free energy' is a suppression agenda.
The Tesla Turbine (most efficient turbine) working from a hot inert gas
input might be something to calibrate.
I mentioned this on another forum, however I'm not that cool on working
with a gas that kills. We need air.
I almost forgot to mention a story about defrosting ol' time refrigerators using an
ice pick, some one lost air almost died and ruined his refrigerator when he
punctured a refrigerant channel.
You can have a nuclear fusion reaction with helium. This is the so-called triple-alpha process.
However, the input energy is even higher than for standard hydrogen fusion.
A helium plasma is much more common, and is commonly used to improve plasma etching characteristics. This is probably what fivedoughnut is referring to.
From the patent summary:
"...The first photons emitted are reflected back into the mass of excited atoms by a reflecting mirror surface on the inside wall of any particular hollow spherical pressure chamber, and this triggers more photons to be released by these atoms. They are reflected likewise and strike other atoms into excitation and photon energy release. The electrons orbiting around the protons of each excited atom in any hollow spherical pressure chamber increase in speed and expand outward from center via centrifugal force causing the atoms to enlarge in size. Consequently, a pressure wave is developed, the gases expand and the pressure of the gas increases...
However, the input energy is even higher than for standard hydrogen fusion.
A helium plasma is much more common, and is commonly used to improve plasma etching characteristics. This is probably what fivedoughnut is referring to.
From the patent summary:
"...The first photons emitted are reflected back into the mass of excited atoms by a reflecting mirror surface on the inside wall of any particular hollow spherical pressure chamber, and this triggers more photons to be released by these atoms. They are reflected likewise and strike other atoms into excitation and photon energy release. The electrons orbiting around the protons of each excited atom in any hollow spherical pressure chamber increase in speed and expand outward from center via centrifugal force causing the atoms to enlarge in size. Consequently, a pressure wave is developed, the gases expand and the pressure of the gas increases...
Here is the Hydrogen molecule non Relativistic effect.
Energy in = energy out does not apply.. due to 'dark matter' effects
in between atoms.
'Dark matter' physics defy Relativistic physics.
H2 + 103cal/gram mole => 2H => H2 + 109,000 cal/gram mole
This may be aiding the hydrogen booster getting a 30% increase in mileage
as youtube has hundreds of videos on this now.
Helium will respond to a Tesla coil (high voltage, low current, low power)
spark by generating 460 kcal/gram- mole (a cubic inch) of heat.
Good for expanding gases as in the Papp and AEROPS.
The AEROPS uses the photo electric effect by UV effecting
alpha emissions in elements lower the AW 19, the noble gases in this case.
Alpha emissions turn into Helium thus Helium can be produced by UV.
Energy in = energy out does not apply.. due to 'dark matter' effects
in between atoms.
'Dark matter' physics defy Relativistic physics.
H2 + 103cal/gram mole => 2H => H2 + 109,000 cal/gram mole
This may be aiding the hydrogen booster getting a 30% increase in mileage
as youtube has hundreds of videos on this now.
Helium will respond to a Tesla coil (high voltage, low current, low power)
spark by generating 460 kcal/gram- mole (a cubic inch) of heat.
Good for expanding gases as in the Papp and AEROPS.
The AEROPS uses the photo electric effect by UV effecting
alpha emissions in elements lower the AW 19, the noble gases in this case.
Alpha emissions turn into Helium thus Helium can be produced by UV.
QUOTE (airlinemusic+Jun 21 2008, 08:10 PM)
Here is the Hydrogen molecule non Relativistic effect.
Energy in = energy out does not apply.. due to 'dark matter' effects
in between atoms.
'Dark matter' physics defy Relativistic physics.
H2 + 103cal/gram mole => 2H => H2 + 109,000 cal/gram mole
"dark matter"
Fee-fi-fo-fum, I smell the stench of an idiot, man.
ps; fuel cells produce energy from the creation of H2O via catalytic separation of hydrogen into protons and electrons, if not, how do you propose to store monatomic hydrogen? - in some frozen inert gas matrix?
Energy in = energy out does not apply.. due to 'dark matter' effects
in between atoms.
'Dark matter' physics defy Relativistic physics.
H2 + 103cal/gram mole => 2H => H2 + 109,000 cal/gram mole
"dark matter"
Fee-fi-fo-fum, I smell the stench of an idiot, man.
ps; fuel cells produce energy from the creation of H2O via catalytic separation of hydrogen into protons and electrons, if not, how do you propose to store monatomic hydrogen? - in some frozen inert gas matrix?
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