coberst
31st October 2009 - 08:09 PM
Can experimentalism loosen the grasp of tradition?
I remember watching the movie Fiddler on the Roof. In this movie there was much talk, and singing and dancing about tradition. The story of the movie is, I think, about what happens when a people steeped in tradition are forced to deal with dramatic change.
The rock of tradition continually meets the winds of change to produce a new tradition. Tradition evolves and the rate of evolution marches ever faster as technology provides the metronomic beat of the march.
Cognitive science presently functions within the boundaries of two distinctly different paradigms. The traditional and first generation paradigm, Artificial Intelligence, is founded upon the theory of mechanical manipulation of symbols by computer, has in the last few decades been challenged by the SGCS (Second Generation Cognitive Science) also known as Experimentalism.
Cognitive science seeks to comprehend via empirical techniques answers to such questions as: What is reason, how do we organize experience, what is a conceptual system, and others. These are not new questions but the answers derived via SGCS are new to science and a challenge to traditional philosophy.
Objectivism is considered to be the traditional philosophical view. “It has come out of two thousand years of philosophizing about the nature of reason. It is still widely believed despite overwhelming empirical evidence against it.” Objectivism is still widely held as valid because the empirical challenge to traditional knowledge, which is not within the domain of the natural sciences, takes generations to permeate the consciousness of the general pubic. The general public learns such matters primarily via social osmosis.
Cognitive science is in transition and categorization is the central issue defining the separation of the traditional view from the experimentalist view.
Cognitive science has introduced revolutionary theories that, if true, will change dramatically the views of Western philosophy. Advocates of the traditional view will, of course, “say that conceptual structure must have a neural realization in the brain, which just happens to reside in a body. But they deny that anything about the body is essential for characterizing what concepts are.”
The cognitive science claim is that ”the very properties of concepts are created as a result of the way the brain and body are structured and the way they function in interpersonal relations and in the physical world.”
The embodied-mind hypothesis therefore radically undercuts the perception/conception distinction. In an embodied mind, it is conceivable that the same neural system engaged in perception (or in bodily movements) plays a central role in conception. Indeed, in recent neural modeling research, models of perceptual mechanisms and motor schemas can actually do conception work in language learning and in reasoning.
A standard technique for checking out new ideas is to create computer models of the idea and subject that model to simulated conditions to determine if the model behaves as does the reality. Such modeling techniques are used constantly in projecting behavior of meteorological parameters.
Neural computer models have shown that the types of operations required to perceive and move in space require the very same type of capability associated with reasoning. That is, neural models capable of doing all of the things that a body must be able to do when perceiving and moving can also perform the same kinds of actions associated with reasoning, i.e. inferring, categorizing, and conceiving.
Our understanding of biology indicates that the body has a marvelous ability to do as any handyman does, i.e. make do with what is at hand. The body would, it seems logical to assume, take these abilities that exist in all creatures that move and survive in space and with such fundamental capabilities reshape it through evolution to become what we now know as our ability to reason. The first budding of the reasoning ability exists in all creatures that function as perceiving, moving, surviving, creatures.
Cognitive science has, it seems to me, connected our ability to reason with our bodies in such away as to make sense out of connecting reason with our biological evolution in ways that Western philosophy has not done, as far as I know.
It seems to me that Western philosophical tradition as always tried to separate mind from body and in so doing has never been able to show how mind, as was conceived by this tradition, could be part of Darwin’s theory of natural selection. Cognitive science now provides us with a comprehensible model for grounding all that we are both bodily and mentally into a unified whole that makes sense without all of the attempts to make mind as some kind of transcendent, mystical, reality unassociated with biology.
Quotes from Philosophy in the Flesh by Lakoff and Johnson
uaafanblog
1st November 2009 - 12:20 PM
You provide no link(s) for the basis of your quotes which I'm assuming are the bolded parts of your text. When I'm done with this response I'm going to give you negative feedback for that.
In a forum such as this it is your responsibility to provide links to the sources/references you're making. Incorporating quotes from your source's text with your own words (even though you've mentioned said source) is akin to plagiarizing.
As best I can interpret, you're trying to make some vague point about transcendentalism versus western philosophy and have a discussion; yet you make only one exceptionally weak proposition at the beginning of your post. You fail to adequately define the terms you're introducing and/or provide any context for their discussion.
If your point here is that western philosophy can't reveal truth because it doesn't recognize the "chi" (or some equally ridiculous notion) then have the balls to come out and say it versus dancing around it with this whacked terminology.
Do us all a favor. Substantially edit your post by making arguable propositions. Tell us what you believe and why then argue then use your source to support your assertions. If you do so, I'll be happy to come back and tear them to shreds.
coberst
1st November 2009 - 08:09 PM
QUOTE (uaafanblog+Nov 1 2009, 12:20 PM)
You provide no link(s) for the basis of your quotes which I'm assuming are the bolded parts of your text. When I'm done with this response I'm going to give you negative feedback for that.
In a forum such as this it is your responsibility to provide links to the sources/references you're making. Incorporating quotes from your source's text with your own words (even though you've mentioned said source) is akin to plagiarizing.
As best I can interpret, you're trying to make some vague point about transcendentalism versus western philosophy and have a discussion; yet you make only one exceptionally weak proposition at the beginning of your post. You fail to adequately define the terms you're introducing and/or provide any context for their discussion.
If your point here is that western philosophy can't reveal truth because it doesn't recognize the "chi" (or some equally ridiculous notion) then have the balls to come out and say it versus dancing around it with this whacked terminology.
Do us all a favor. Substantially edit your post by making arguable propositions. Tell us what you believe and why then argue then use your source to support your assertions. If you do so, I'll be happy to come back and tear them to shreds.
I use standard punctuation. When I use another's words I use quotation marks. "These are quotation marks". If you had read all the way to the bottom of the OP you would know from whence the quotes came.
light in the tunnel
2nd November 2009 - 12:57 AM
QUOTE (uaafanblog+Nov 1 2009, 12:20 PM)
You provide no link(s) for the basis of your quotes which I'm assuming are the bolded parts of your text. When I'm done with this response I'm going to give you negative feedback for that.
In defense of this poster, a citation to Lakhoff and Johnson's text, Philosophy in the Flesh, was given at the end of the post. Maybe you missed it because it was a single line set off from the rest of the post at the bottom of the box?
I mentioned something about Lakhoff and Johnson's Metaphors We Live By in other post, but I forget about the Philosophy in the Flesh approach where cognition is studied in terms of bodily experiences.
This post actually sums up the key aspects of these authors' approach to cognition and philosophy quite well - but then I am already familiar so I am far from "objective," in the sense of arriving without any prior knowledge.
In response to the concern with tradition, I would say that Lakhoff and Johnson would look at the very concept of tradition in terms of cognitive structuring of the concept itself.
I have found a good technique to study concepts using this approach to cognition is to look up the etymology of a word, because it often contains concrete root concepts that reveal the metaphorical foundations of the word's meaning and usage in practical discourses.
Part of the entry for "tradition" from the Online Etymological Dictionary:
c.1380, from O.Fr. tradicion (1292), from L. traditionem (nom. traditio) "delivery, surrender, a handing down," from traditus, pp. of tradere "deliver, hand over," from trans- "over" + dare "to give"
This suggests that the concept of tradition or traditional knowledge may have to do with a prescribed relationship of subordination or submission to authority. This may be contrasted with another (anti-orthodox or critical) approach to knowledge in which authority is resisted or challenged toward various ends.
Knowledge is often defined or labeled as "traditional" or "non-traditional" but perhaps it would make more sense to see these status-labels as contested attributions rather than an inherent or essential trait. In other words, maybe knowledge is not really traditional or non-traditional in any essential sense, but rather it is attributed this label as part of a power-struggle over authority and the will to elate an attitude of surrender in the knower or learner. If you are interested in Foucault, the concept is docility. Asserting tradition would be seen as a power tactic deployed to make people docile and more susceptible to surrendering to authority (in my interpretation of Foucault for this topic then).
This is probably just one direction of many that could be taken with this concept and these theories. I would say it would be better to address specific problems and questions when putting theories on the table like this in a thread. I realize that the original poster probably just wanted to start a general discussion about the theory, but without a specific question or focus, I'm afraid any discussion could become quickly very unfocussed. Maybe not a problem for some?
coberst
2nd November 2009 - 11:52 AM
QUOTE (light in the tunnel+Nov 2 2009, 12:57 AM)
I would say it would be better to address specific problems and questions when putting theories on the table like this in a thread. I realize that the original poster probably just wanted to start a general discussion about the theory, but without a specific question or focus, I'm afraid any discussion could become quickly very unfocussed. Maybe not a problem for some?
I think that our (American) educational system has left us all with serious learning handicaps. I seek to alert the reader to these problems in the hope that the reader will become a self-actualizing self-learner.
One important aspect for developing an intellectual life is the ability to become a critical reader. As such one must learn how to develop questions while trying to comprehend a new domain of knowledge.
uaafanblog
2nd November 2009 - 12:28 PM
Darkness in the Open:
I clearly indicated that I'd seen his reference. It surprises me not that one dilettante rises to support another. The fact remains that the thread starter's initial post was quasi-plagiarism. Your ongoing Sophistry does nothing to advance reason. It's a shame philosophical thought is riddled with posers who have no idea of how to advance an argument. Using weak metaphors and dancing around the fringes of concepts does not equal cogent thinking.
Bert and Ernie:
A more important aspect of intellectual life is an ability to communicate effectively. You've got a long way to go before you begin to approach that state. Say "something". You've said nothing substantial here. Your apologist above should have been booted from this place for his/her whacked interpretations spewed in a veil faux rose-water. But I suppose that's to be expected on a physics forum.
Dolts:
Reason and wisdom are ill-served by sophistry. Put away your pop-philosophy texts and read some Hume.
Goofus A Gallant
2nd November 2009 - 03:12 PM
I thought it pointed out the obvious, "mind" is a function of the brain. You can't separate the two because they are both aspects of the same physical process.
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