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Harry Costas
G'day from the land of ozzzzzzz

Reading through many papers I have come to the conclusion that not many know how a black Hole works and in some cases even question whether a black hole exists.

Maybe in this topic we can be opened minded.

Black Holes
http://filer.case.edu/sjr16/advanced/stars_blackhole.html
Types and Sizes of Black Holes

QUOTE
A black hole is classified by the only three properties that it possesses: Mass, Spin, and Magnetic Field.

Currently, there are only two recognized mass classes of black hole: Stellar and Supermassive. The stellar black holes are star-sized and range in the 10-100 solar mass range. The supermassive black holes are at the cores of - what appear to be - every large galaxy, including our Milky Way. These range in the millions to even billions of solar masses.

Intermediate black holes are hotly debated. There has been no universally-accepted proof as to their existence, and many doubt there to be a reasonable mechanism by which they would form.

The simplest black hole has no spin and no magnetic field. This is called a Schwarzschild black hole. A black hole that has a field but no spin is called a Reissner-Nordstrøm black hole. One that has both a magnetic field and spin is called a Kerr black hole.



I will add to this later. Darn I have to go and pick up the kids.


Harry Costas
G'day

Winding spiral arms reveal black hole mass
http://www.astronomy.com/asy/default.aspx?c=a&id=7018
K. Margiani
Hello Costas!

Black hole is driver of the Milky Way, remnant of the died parent star.

http://www.astro.virginia.edu/class/whittl...4/M1_MW_nuc.mpg
Harry Costas
G'day from the land of ozzzzzz

Hello margiani

You said

QUOTE
Black hole is driver of the Milky Way, remnant of the died parent star.


A black hole is an ultra dense compact matter nothing less nothing more. Its extreme density much denser than the nucleus of an atom, allows it to develope extreme electromagnetic and gravitational fields. It is not a remnant of a parent star or a dead star. It is part of a phase (Stage) that plays part in a recyling process. Millions of these compact bodies that we call stellar black holes form throughout the milky way and as they move towards the centre they merge and form bigger so called black holes and eventually form our main black hole being several million solar masses. All compact bodies form jets and eject matter. The monster black holes that create supper jets is directly related to the amount of matter sucked in.



K. Margiani
"monster" black holes never create supper jets. After merging of galaxies "monster" black holes create quasars and only "monster" quasar creates supper jets.
Sec
QUOTE (K. Margiani+Jun 8 2008, 06:08 AM)
"monster" black holes never create supper jets. After merging of galaxies "monster" black holes create quasars and only "monster" quasar creates supper jets.

Discovery is intellectual happiness? blink.gif - better change that sig' to "Ignorance is bliss".

laugh.gif
Harry Costas
Hello All

Margiani said

QUOTE
"monster" black holes never create supper jets. After merging of galaxies "monster" black holes create quasars and only "monster" quasar creates supper jets.


Mate you need to read up on quasars, so called black holes and jets.

Do a bit of research and if you cannot find the information I will post it.

Hello rpenner

Thank you for the links, they are great

This one is very special
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap990128.html





K. Margiani
for open minds only.

I want to describe Merging (axial hit) of two old spiral galaxies. Each of them has Super Massive Black Hole (SMBH) in the centre. Merging can decay gravitational order of both galaxies. Stars with own planetary systems start fall down on the SMBH. Gravitated and exploded stars and planets create huge nuclear reactions around both SMBH. Huge nuclear reactions create huge nuclear wind from SMBH. Huge nuclear wind forms huge nuclear clouds. It means SMBH creates QUAZAR. Huge radiations of exploded stellar and planetary chemical elements from ultra dense nucleus of quasar are absorbing by same chemical elements of huge red-hot nuclear and molecular clouds surrounded the quasar. This is proof of socked forbidden lines formation in the spectrum. It means events around Centaurus A and 3c438 are results after huge hit between two quasars. Thus each big bang in the universe is event formed after huge hit between two quasars.
Harry Costas
G'day from the land of ozzzzzzzz


Margianni said

QUOTE
Thus each big bang in the universe is event formed after huge hit between two quasars.


Merging of quasars (collision of galaxies one or mutliple) is a very common process, bt in the scope of things is just a drop in an ocean of water. Not a big bang but a merging process that is part of a recycling process.

Keep an open mind. Knowing sometimes stops you from learning.

I know very little, and the more I read the more I find that I know very little. We are at the door steps of learning about the universe.
K. Margiani
All objects of the universe are participating in the universe events. Black holes, Quasars, galaxies, globular clusters, even stars, planets and nebulas are part of the recycling, renewing and evolution processes in the endless universe. Each of them has own mission in the evolution order.
Harry Costas
Hello Margiani

You said

QUOTE
All objects of the universe are participating in the universe events. Black holes, Quasars, galaxies, globular clusters, even stars, planets and nebulas are part of the recycling, renewing and evolution processes in the endless universe. Each of them has own mission in the evolution order.


Thats ok, now try to understand the workings of each part.


K. Margiani
Costas, thanks for order

I’ll do your order ASAP.
Harry Costas
Hello Margiani

Its not an order,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,smile

Its what we all need to do, to understand the workings of anything.


Harry Costas
G'day from the land of ozzzzzzzzzzz



http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1984RvMP...56..255B


QUOTE
Abstract

Powerful extragalactic radio sources comprise two extended regions containing magnetic field and synchrotron-emitting relativistic electrons, each linked by a jet to a central compact radio source located in the nucleus of the associated galaxy. These jets are collimated streams of plasma that emerge from the nucleus in opposite directions, along which flow mass, momentum, energy, and magnetic flux. Methods of using the observations diagnostically to infer the pressures, densities, and fluid velocities within jets are explained. The jets terminate in the extended radio components, where they interact strongly with the surrounding medium through a combination of shock waves and instabilities. Jets may expand freely, be confined by external gas pressure, or be pinched by toroidal magnetic fields. Shear flows are known to be Kelvin-Helmholtz unstable and thus may be responsible for some of the observed oscillation of jets about their mean directions and for creating the turbulence and shock waves needed to accelerate the relativistic electrons. Larger-scale bending may be caused by changes in the jet axis within the nucleus, gravitational interaction of the radio galaxy with a companion galaxy, or rapid motion of the source through dense intergalactic gas. The compact radio sources also exhibit a jet morphology and contain more direct clues as to the origins of jets; in particular, the variations sometimes observed imply bulk flows that are relativistic. It is widely believed that nuclear activity is ultimately ascribable to gas accreting onto a massive black hole. The accretion can proceed in several different fashions, depending upon whether or not the gas has angular momentum and whether or not the radiation emitted is sufficiently intense to influence the dynamics of the flow. Several distinct mechanisms for jet production in the context of black holes have been proposed. (Alternative mechanisms involving dense star clusters and massive spinning stars are also reviewed.) Supersonic jets may be collimated along the spin axis of a gas cloud surrounding the source of the lighter jet gas. Magnetic fields may be crucial in collimating jets, especially if they are wrapped around the jet by orbiting gas and can thereby collimate the outflow through the pinch effect. In fact, the spin energy of the black hole could also be extracted by magnetic torques, in which case the jet would contain electrons and positrons and carry a large electromagnetic Poynting flux. Statistical investigations of active galaxies also furnish valuable information on their nature and evolutionary behavior. The formation of particular kinds of sources appears to be correlated with environmental effects and cosmic epoch. In addition, the brightest compact radio sources on the sky, which probably involve relativistic motion, may be intrinsically faint objects beamed in our direction. There is now compelling evidence for the continuous fueling of extragalactic radio sources through jets emerging from the nucleus of the associated galaxy. The morphological classification of radio sources is interpreted in terms of the powers, speeds, and surroundings of jets. The ratio of the mass accretion rate to the mass of the hole may determine whether an active nucleus will be primarily a thermal object like an optical quasar or a nonthermal object like a radio galaxy. The authors outline a unified model of nuclear activity and assess what future progress may stem from observational developments (especially the proposed very long baseline array), experimental approaches (such as wind tunnel simulations), and theoretical studies (in particular, large-scale numerical hydrodynamical computing).
Harry Costas
G'day from the land of ozzz

Information on Black Holes is mostly unlnown.

This following paper is interesting.

A Cluster of Black Holes at the Galactic Center

Authors: Jordi Miralda-Escude, Andrew Gould (Ohio State University)
(Submitted on 17 Mar 2000)

QUOTE
Abstract: If the stellar population of the bulge contains black holes formed in the final core collapse of ordinary stars with M \ga 30 M_{\odot}, then about 25,000 stellar mass black holes should have migrated by dynamical friction into the central parsec of the Milky Way, forming a black hole cluster around the central supermassive black hole. These black holes can be captured by the central black hole when they randomly reach a highly eccentric orbit due to relaxation, either by direct capture (when their Newtonian peribothron is less than 4 Schwarzschild radii), or after losing orbital energy through gravitational waves. The overall depletion timescale is ~ 30 Gyr, so most of the 25,000 black holes remain in the central cluster today. The presence of this black hole cluster would have several observable consequences. First, the low-mass, old stellar population should have been expelled from the region occupied by the black hole cluster due to relaxation, implying a core in the profile of solar-mass red giants with a radius of ~ 2 pc (i.e., 1'). The observed central density cusp (which has a core radius of only a few arc seconds) should be composed primarily of young (\la 1 Gyr) stars. Second, flares from stars being captured by supermassive black holes in other galaxies should be rarer than usually expected because the older stars will have been expelled from the central regions by the black hole clusters of those galaxies. Third, the young (\la 2 Gyr) stars found at distances ~ 3 - 10 pc from the Galactic center should be preferentially on highly eccentric orbits. Fourth, if future high-resolution $K$-band images reveal sources microlensed by the Milky Way's central black hole, then the cluster black holes could give rise to secondary (``planet-like'') perturbations on the main event.
Grumpy
Harry Costas

Lots of "should"s in that paper, lots of assumptions and unsupported statements as well. Good thing we have actual observations to tell us what IS, rather than what the authors think SHOULD BE. Of course, in 2000 there had been no direct observations yet, so they couldn't know that their assumptions and statements were wrong.

Grumpy cool.gif
Harry Costas
G'day from the land of ozzz


The last post was missing the link
Authors: Jordi Miralda-Escude, Andrew Gould (Ohio State University)
(Submitted on 17 Mar 2000)
http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0003269


Harry Costas
G'day from the land of ozzzzzz

To understand so called black holes we need to look at the information that is done by many scientists around the world.

http://arxiv.org/abs/0904.3486
The spin dependence of the Blandford-Znajek effect

Authors: David Garofalo
(Submitted on 22 Apr 2009)

QUOTE
Abstract: The interaction of large scale magnetic fields with the event horizon of rotating black holes (the Blandford-Znajek [1977] mechanism) forms the basis for some models of the most relativistic jets. We explore a scenario in which the central inward "plunging" region of the accretion flow enhances the trapping of large scale poloidal field on the black hole. The study is carried out using a fully relativistic treatment in Kerr spacetime, with the focus being to determine the spin dependence of the Blandford-Znajek effect. We find that large scale magnetic fields are enhanced on the black hole compared to the inner accretion flow and that the ease with which this occurs for lower prograde black hole spin, produces a spin dependence in the Blandford-Znajek effect that has attractive applications to recent observations. Among these is the correlation between inferred accretion rate and nuclear jet power observed by Allen et al. (2006) in X-ray luminous elliptical galaxies. If the black hole rotation in these elliptical galaxies is in the prograde sense compared with that of the inner accretion disk, we show that both the absolute value and the uniformity of the implied jet-production efficiency can be explained by the flux-trapping model. The basic scenario that emerges from this study is that a range of intermediate values of black hole spins could be powering these AGN. We also suggest that the jets in the most energetic radio-galaxies may be powered by accretion onto {\it retrograde} rapidly-rotating black holes.



Grumpy
Harry Costas

As your cite plainly states, it is not the BH that is the source for jets, it is the magnetic field of the accretion disk.

Grumpy cool.gif
Harry Costas
G'day from the land of ozzzzzzz

http://arxiv.org/abs/0905.1709
Phenomenology of 10^32 Dark Sectors

Authors: Gia Dvali, Michele Redi
(Submitted on 11 May 2009)

QUOTE
Abstract: We postulate an exact permutation symmetry acting on 10^32 Standard Model copies as the largest possible symmetry extension of the Standard Model. This setup automatically lowers the fundamental gravity cutoff down to TeV, and thus, accounts for the quantum stability of the weak scale. We study the phenomenology of this framework and show that below TeV energies the copies are well hidden, obeying all the existing observational bounds. Nevertheless, we identify a potential low energy window into the hidden world, the oscillation of the neutron into its dark copies. At the same time, proton decay can be suppressed by gauging the diagonal baryon number of the different copies. This framework offers an alternative approach to several particle physics questions. For example, we suggest a novel mechanism for generating naturally small neutrino masses that are suppressed by the number of neutrino species. The mirror copies of the Standard Model naturally house dark matter candidates. The general experimentally observable prediction of this scenario is an emergence of strong gravitational effects at the LHC. The low energy permutation symmetry powerfully constrains the form of this new gravitational physics and allows to make observational predictions, such as, production of micro black-holes with very peculiar properties.
Harry Costas
G'day from the land of ozzzzzzzz

To understand so called black holes one needs to read up. I'm not saying this is correct or wrong. Its interesting.

http://arxiv.org/abs/0808.2609
A new line element derived from the variable rest mass in gravitational field

Authors: N. Ben-Amots
(Submitted on 19 Aug 2008)

QUOTE
Abstract: This paper presents a new line element based on the assumption of the variable rest mass in gravitational field, and explores some its implications. This line element is not a vacuum solution of Einstein's equations, yet it is sufficiently close to Schwarzschild's line element to be compatible with all of the experimental and observational measurements made so far to confirm the three Einstein's predictions. The theory allows radiation and fast particles to escape from all massive bodies, even from those that in Einstein's general relativity framework will be black holes. The striking feature of this line element is the non-existence of black holes.




Harry Costas
G'day from the land of ozzzzzzzz

I forgot to add this paper.

http://arxiv.org/abs/0801.2974
Where is the Radiation Edge in Magnetized Black Hole Accretion discs?

Authors: Kris Beckwith, John Hawley, Julian Krolik
(Submitted on 18 Jan 2008 (v1), last revised 8 Jul 2008 (this version, v2))

QUOTE
Abstract: General Relativistic (GR) Magnetohydrodynamic (MHD) simulations of black hole accretion find significant magnetic stresses near and inside the innermost stable circular orbit (ISCO), suggesting that such flows could radiate in a manner noticeably different from the prediction of the standard model, which assumes that there are no stresses in that region. We provide estimates of how phenomenologically interesting parameters like the ``radiation edge", the innermost ring of the disc from which substantial thermal radiation escapes to infinity, may be altered by stresses near the ISCO. These estimates are based on data from a large number of three-dimensional GRMHD simulations combined with GR ray-tracing. For slowly spinning black holes ($a/M<0.9$), the radiation edge lies well inside where the standard model predicts, particularly when the system is viewed at high inclination. For more rapidly spinning black holes, the contrast is smaller. At fixed total luminosity, the characteristic temperature of the accretion flow increases between a factor of $1.2-2.4$ over that predicted by the standard model, whilst at fixed mass accretion rate, there is a corresponding enhancement of the accretion luminosity which may be anywhere from tens of percent to order unity. When all these considerations are combined, we find that, for fixed black hole mass, luminosity, and inclination angle, our uncertainty in the characteristic temperature of the radiation reaching distant observers due to uncertainty in dissipation profile (around a factor of 3) is {\it greater} than the uncertainty due to a complete lack of knowledge of the black hole's spin (around a factor of 2) and furthermore that spin estimates based on the stress-free inner boundary condition provide an upper limit to $a/M$.
Harry Costas
G'day from the land of ozzzzz

Getting to know the so called black holes.


http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0606489
Galactic Nuclei and Jets in Wave Gravity

Authors: Kris Krogh
(Submitted on 20 Jun 2006 (v1), last revised 25 Jun 2006 (this version, v3))

QUOTE
Abstract: "Wave gravity" refers to a quantum-mechanical gravity theory introduced in two previous papers [1,2]. Although based on the optics of de Broglie waves instead of curved space-time, it agrees with the standard tests of general relativity. As in that theory, galactic nuclei are dark objects where gravity prevents the escape of most radiation. In this case, collapse is counteracted by rising internal pressure and black hole singularities don't occur. Unlike black holes, these nuclei can have internal magnetic fields, and high-energy plasma can escape along magnetic field lines closely aligned with the gravitational field direction. This allows a different model of jets from active galactic nuclei, where jets can arise without direct fueling by accretion disks. It also offers a new basis for the tight correlation observed [13] between the masses of galactic nuclei and their hosts.
Harry Costas
G'day from the land of ozzzzz

This is nice movie, short and sweet

http://chandra.harvard.edu/photo/2006/bhce...sequence_sm.mov
Harry Costas
G'day from the land of ozzzzzzz



Hello fiary

Some people complain that I post too many links.


I kind of slowed down


Keep Cool mate


Grumpy
Harry Costas

QUOTE
Some people complain that I post too many links.


The problem is that some of the cites you use are just plain wrong(http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0606489
Galactic Nuclei and Jets in Wave Gravity), and some you just don't understand as not supporting your conclusions(http://arxiv.org/abs/0801.2974
Where is the Radiation Edge in Magnetized Black Hole Accretion discs?)

The first is just plain wrong(as are many papers in the preprint archive arxiv, the paper is wrong in assuming the lack of a singularity means the lack of an event horizon), the second is correct in supporting the fact that the jets are the result of magnetic fields of THE ACCRETION DISK, not coming from the BH itself(NOTHING can come out of the EH, the EH is a RADIUS from the center of gravity, not an object, and the laws of physics preclude it).

Grumpy cool.gif

Harry Costas
G'day from the land of ozzz

Another interesting paper to read. I was emailed this recently.

I'm not trying to prove any point, rather its reading and learning.

A new method to compute quasi-local spin and other invariants on marginally trapped surfaces
Authors: Michael Jasiulek
(Submitted on 8 Jun 2009)

QUOTE
Abstract: We accurately compute the scalar 2-curvature, the Weyl scalars, associated quasi-local spin, mass and higher multipole moments on marginally trapped surfaces in numerical 3+1 simulations. To determine the quasi-local quantities we introduce a new method which requires a set of invariant surface integrals, allowing for surface grids of a few hundred points only. The new technique circumvents solving the Killing equation and is also an alternative to approximate Killing vector fields. We apply the method to a perturbed black hole ringing down to Kerr and compare the quasi-local spin with other methods that use Killing vector fields, coordinate vector fields, quasinormal ringing and properties of the Kerr metric on the surface. It even agrees with the spin of approximate Killing vector fields during the phase of perturbed axisymmetry. Additionally, we introduce a new coordinate transformation, adapting spherical coordinates to any two points on the sphere like the two minima of the scalar 2-curvature on axisymmetric trapped surfaces.
Harry Costas
G'day from the land of ozzzzzzz

http://arxiv.org/abs/0812.4232
What is the closest black hole to the Sun?

Authors: C. Foellmi
(Submitted on 22 Dec 2008 (v1), last revised 16 Apr 2009 (this version, v3))

QUOTE
Abstract: We examine the distance of the two galactic microquasars GRO J1655-40 and A0620-00, which are potentially the two closest black holes to the Sun. We aim to provide a picture as wide and complete as possible of the problem of measuring the distance of microquasars in our Galaxy. The purpose of this work is to fairly and critically review in great detail every distance method used for these two microquasars in order to show that the distances of probably all microquasars in our galaxy are much more uncertain than currently admitted. Moreover, we show that many confirmations of quantitative results are often entangled and rely on very uncertain measurements. We also present a new determination of the maximum distance of GRO J1655-40 using red clump giant stars, and show that it confirms our earlier result of a distance less than 2 kpc instead of 3.2 kpc. Since it then becomes more likely that GRO J1655-40 could originate from the stellar cluster NGC 6242, located at 1.0 kpc, we review the distance estimations of A0620-00, which is so far the closest black hole with an average distance of about 1.0 kpc. We show that the distance methods used for A0620-00 are also problematic. Finally, we present a new analysis of spectroscopic and astrometric archival data on this microquasar, and apply the maximum-distance method of Foellmi et al. (2006). It appears that A0620-00 could indeed be even closer to the Sun than currently estimated, and consequently would be the closest known black hole to the Sun.
Harry Costas
G'day from the land of ozzzzzzzzz

Just sharing the reading no point to prove.

http://arxiv.org/abs/0802.2034
Extragalactic jets with helical magnetic fields: relativistic MHD simulations

Authors: R. Keppens, Z. Meliani, B. van der Holst, F. Casse
(Submitted on 14 Feb 2008)

QUOTE
Abstract: Extragalactic jets are inferred to harbor dynamically important, organized magnetic fields which presumably aid in the collimation of the relativistic jet flows. We here explore by means of grid-adaptive, high resolution numerical simulations the morphology of AGN jets pervaded by helical field and flow topologies. We concentrate on morphological features of the bow shock and the jet beam behind the Mach disk, for various jet Lorentz factors and magnetic field helicities. We investigate the influence of helical magnetic fields on jet beam propagation in overdense external medium. We use the AMRVAC code, employing a novel hybrid block-based AMR strategy, to compute ideal plasma dynamics in special relativity. The helicity of the beam magnetic field is effectively transported down the beam, with compression zones in between diagonal internal cross-shocks showing stronger toroidal field regions. In comparison with equivalent low-relativistic jets which get surrounded by cocoons with vortical backflows filled by mainly toroidal field, the high speed jets demonstrate only localized, strong toroidal field zones within the backflow vortical structures. We find evidence for a more poloidal, straight field layer, compressed between jet beam and backflows. This layer decreases the destabilizing influence of the backflow on the jet beam. In all cases, the jet beam contains rich cross-shock patterns, across which part of the kinetic energy gets transferred. For the high speed reference jet considered here, significant jet deceleration only occurs beyond distances exceeding ${\cal O}(100 R_j)$, as the axial flow can reaccelerate downstream to the internal cross-shocks. This reacceleration is magnetically aided, due to field compression across the internal shocks which pinch the flow.
rpenner
Stop posting in this style. It is disruptive, sterile, and duplicative.

If you have a point of view, write an essay. If you have a scientific contribution, write a paper. If you want to ask a question, supply a concise version of the context and ask the question.

If you don't have a point of view, useful contribution, or willingness to contribute to the community, don't post.

There is no need, ever, to claim a paper is interesting without explaining your basis for saying that. There is no need, ever, to quote the abstract of a paper verbatim. It is much better to link to the paper and explain what the paper says in your own words and explain why you think that is important for others to read. It is likewise important to explain who your audience is when you suggest some people should read the paper.
Harry Costas
G'day rpenner

Black holes are not well known and their properties are not known at all.

By understanding some parts, particularly the formation of jets from these condessed matter may give us some understanding.

Magnetic reconnection maybe the key mechanism for the formation of such jets.


There are not that many points you can prove in regards to black holes, but to share information and most ABS are self explaining.

The closest magnetic field reconnection can been seen on the surface of the Sun.


jsaldea12
Do let me add some infos: As in the macrocosm, so in microcosm: In macrocosm, like the solar system, the sun is the nucleus and the planets are satellites (just like electrons). The same too, with galaxies, there is always the massive black hole, as nucleus, and the stars, the satellites. In microcosm, re-the atom, there is the nucleus and the electrons (as satellites).

Can we say that there is uncanny similarity between the black hole, nucleus of galaxy and the proton-neutron, nucleus of atom? The black hole has strong electro-magnetic force, has strong gravitational electro-magnetic for4ce that prevents light from escaping because light itself is elecro-magnetic. In like manner, the proton-neutron, nucleus of atom, must have same qualities, re- strong magnetic property, strong gravitational force, Also, proton does not decay, uncannily, black hole does not decay, too, or too extremely difficult to decay, that black hole even sucks escaping energy and light..(Hawking radiation is supra-ejected energy from black hole, not decay). .

What do you think?


jsaldea12
7.8.09
MjolnirPants
QUOTE (Harry Costas+Jul 7 2009, 02:48 AM)
Black holes are not well known and their properties are not known at all.

Your ability to browse through so many scientific papers and still make claims like this is a testament to your own willful ignorance.

Hey, guess what. Light can't escape a black hole's event horizon. Now you know one of it's properties.
jsaldea12
I was exactly referring to that, too, that light, if ever, is emitted from black hole cannot escape black hole because the strong gravitational force of the black hole sucks it.. But the deeper reason why light is prevented is because the strong gravitational force of black hole is electro-magnetic and light is electro-magnetic, too. Just a practical example, if: accidentally , your hand holds an electrical wire, there is strong electro-magnetic force that prevents us from pulling out our hand.. In like manner, the strong GRAVITATIONAL force has strong electro-magnetic force that is mainly responsible for making sure that electro-magnetic light is simply being sucked back. My point is this: that strong gravitational force is actually the strong gravitational field that has electro-magnetic property. Such being the case, gravitational field of earth has electro-magnetic property but very weak, cannot be detected by advance human scientific instrument, but such property is there, just like weak, weak gravity which cannot be detected, but electro-magnetic light detects it, interacts, .both light and gravitational field have inherent electro-magnetic property.…trying to see deeper implications.. .. .

Jsaldea12

7.8.09
RobDegraves
Wow... was that ever a bunch of BS. You can't even get normal science right.

QUOTE
Just a practical example, if: accidentally , your hand holds an electrical wire, there is strong electro-magnetic force that prevents us from pulling out our hand..


That's because the electricity causes your muscles to contract... not because your hand is magnetized. Sheesh.. children know this one.


QUOTE (->
QUOTE
Just a practical example, if: accidentally , your hand holds an electrical wire, there is strong electro-magnetic force that prevents us from pulling out our hand..


That's because the electricity causes your muscles to contract... not because your hand is magnetized. Sheesh.. children know this one.


Such being the case, gravitational field of earth has electro-magnetic property but very weak, cannot be detected by advance human scientific instrument, but such property is there, just like weak, weak gravity which cannot be detected, but electro-magnetic light detects it, interacts, .both light and gravitational field have inherent electro-magnetic property.…trying to see deeper implications.. .. .


So... gravity can't be detected...

Wait.. what?

blink.gif
Harry Costas
G'day from the land of ozzzzzzz

Do people still live in the dark ages.?

What is a Black hole?

Does EMR escape from a black hole? Yes

http://chandra.harvard.edu/photo/2009/cena/
Centaurus A:
Black Hole Outflows From Centaurus A


http://chandra.harvard.edu/photo/2001/0157blue/
Centaurus A:
A Nearby Elliptical Galaxy With An Active Galactic Nucleus


How the so called black hole drives the jet is still unknown.

and yet the size of these so called black holes determine the form of the galaxy.

jsaldea12
The test of the pudding is in the eating. Try touching your finger, briefly to be safe, to a live wire. Then, touch same finger to a VCD. .and observe.. Some of the recording are de-magnetized by your magnetized finger..

That is true too, your muscle contracts, too.

The point i want to drive is that if the strong graviational force field of blackhole is electro-magnetic, therefore all gravitationasl fields of other bodies, like the sun, earth, etc, have electro-magnetic property, though very, very weak?

Regards.


Jsaldea12

7.10.09.
Harry Costas
G'day from the land of ozzz

Maybe look up wikipedea.
Grumpy
Harry Costas

QUOTE
Does EMR escape from a black hole? Yes


No. Once again you confuse the outflow from the BH SYSTEM as coming out of the BH itself. No radiation or matter of any kind can escape a BH, all the magnetic and physical properties we observe are the result of the accretion disk. A BH with no accretion disk is not detectable by any means(unless one were to fall into it's gravity well) other than sensing it's Hawking Radiation.

QUOTE (->
QUOTE
Does EMR escape from a black hole? Yes


No. Once again you confuse the outflow from the BH SYSTEM as coming out of the BH itself. No radiation or matter of any kind can escape a BH, all the magnetic and physical properties we observe are the result of the accretion disk. A BH with no accretion disk is not detectable by any means(unless one were to fall into it's gravity well) other than sensing it's Hawking Radiation.

How the so called black hole drives the jet is still unknown.


False, the process has been modelled according to our current understanding of physics.

"These data support the suggestion that twisted magnetic field lines are creating the jet plumes. Material in the center of the galaxy, such as nearby stars and gas, gets pulled in by the black hole's overwhelming gravity and forms a disk orbiting around the core (the material's inertia keeps it spiraling in a disk rather than falling straight into the black hole). The distorted magnetic field lines seem to pull charged particles off the disk and cause them to gush outward at nearly the speed of light."

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/0804...ole-blazar.html

QUOTE
and yet the size of these so called black holes determine the form of the galaxy.


Rather, the amount of material available to form the galaxy determines both the size of the galaxy and the size of the central BH.

Grumpy cool.gif
Harry Costas
G'day from the land of ozzzzz

Grumpy you are talking around the subject.

There are three school of thoughts around the formation of jets.

One school refers to the disc playing the main. Although jets formed from this process are unable to form an axion dipole vector fields to enable a stable jet formation that can last for millions of years.

Second school refers to the actual core having a condensed matter, maybe of quark particles or even Neutrino matter forming a vortex that drives the jet.

The thrid school combines both the disc and the core in the formation of the jet. It's like the chicken and the egg.

As time goes on, we find that the more we learn the more we find how lttle we know.
Supernova is yet to be fully understood.

The following forces allow us to study.

http://arxiv.org/abs/0906.3043
The Meissner Effect and Vortex Expulsion in Color-Superconducting Quark stars, and its Role for Re-heating of Magnetars

Authors: Brian Niebergal, Rachid Ouyed, Rodrigo Negreiros, Fridolin Weber
(Submitted on 16 Jun 2009)

QUOTE
Abstract: Compact stars made of quark matter rather than confined hadronic matter, are expected to form a color superconductor. This superconductor ought to be threaded with rotational vortex lines within which the star's interior magnetic field is confined. The vortices (and thus magnetic flux) would be expelled from the star during stellar spin-down, leading to magnetic reconnection at the surface of the star and the prolific production of thermal energy. In this Letter, we show that this energy release can re-heat quark stars to exceptionally high temperatures, such as observed for Soft Gamma Repeaters (SGRs), Anomalous X-Ray pulsars (AXPs), and X-ray dim isolated neutron stars (XDINs). Moreover, our numerical investigations of the temperature evolution, spin-down rate, and magnetic field behavior of such superconducting quark stars suggest that SGRs, AXPs, and XDINs may be linked ancestrally. Finally, we discuss the possibility of a time delay before the star enters the color superconducting phase, which can be used to estimate the density at which quarks deconfine. We find this density to be five times that of nuclear saturation.


This image is a classsic example of its force

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap080617.html
APOD: 2008 June 17- Eta Carinae and the Homunculus Nebula

Notice the dipole axiom.

also this image

http://chandra.harvard.edu/photo/2002/0157/
Centaurus A Arcs:
Arcs Tell The Tale Of A Giant Eruption

and

http://chandra.harvard.edu/photo/2003/cenajet/
Centaurus A Jet:
Energetic Jet Meets Resistance In Nearby Galaxy
Grumpy
Harry Costas

QUOTE
One school refers to the disc playing the main.


Actually, this is the only legitimate source for the jets, as there is no magnetic field from the BH itself(magnetism is an electro-magnetic force, subject to the same limitations as light).

QUOTE (->
QUOTE
One school refers to the disc playing the main.


Actually, this is the only legitimate source for the jets, as there is no magnetic field from the BH itself(magnetism is an electro-magnetic force, subject to the same limitations as light).

Although jets formed from this process are unable to form an axion dipole vector fields to enable a stable jet formation that can last for millions of years.


They evidently can, for such things do exist and the accretion disk is the only possible source.


QUOTE
Second school refers to the actual core having a condensed matter, maybe of quark particles or even Neutrino matter forming a vortex that drives the jet.

The thrid school combines both the disc and the core in the formation of the jet. It's like the chicken and the egg.

As time goes on, we find that the more we learn the more we find how lttle we know.


These are schools with only cranks in attendance.

QUOTE (->
QUOTE
Second school refers to the actual core having a condensed matter, maybe of quark particles or even Neutrino matter forming a vortex that drives the jet.

The thrid school combines both the disc and the core in the formation of the jet. It's like the chicken and the egg.

As time goes on, we find that the more we learn the more we find how lttle we know.


These are schools with only cranks in attendance.

Supernova is yet to be fully understood.


Well, DUH!!! But the SPECTRA of the various types of supernovas is very well understood, enough that type 1a can be used for a standard candle with a error of less than 6%.

QUOTE
The Meissner Effect and Vortex Expulsion in Color-Superconducting Quark stars, and its Role for Re-heating of Magnetars


Neither of which are BHs, thus irrelivant to the point. As are the other cites.

Grumpy cool.gif

Harry Costas
G'day from the land of ozzzzz

Grumpy you need to read up on the properties of black holes, your non scientific opinions are back in the dark ages.
AlexG
QUOTE (Harry Costas+Jul 10 2009, 09:03 PM)
G'day from the land of ozzzzz

Grumpy you need to read up on the properties of black holes, your non scientific opinions are back in the dark ages.

BHs have the properties of mass, charge, and spin.

That's it.
Harry Costas
G'day Alex

You said

QUOTE
BHs have the properties of mass, charge, and spin.

That's it.


Properties of mass in what phase?

Charge how so and what form?

Spin!! What does the spinning? The overall mass or the votex?

I wish it was "THAT's IT" and we can all go home and put a shrimp on the barbi.
AlexG
QUOTE
Properties of mass in what phase?


Meaningless question. A BH has mass. There is no 'phase'.

QUOTE (->
QUOTE
Properties of mass in what phase?


Meaningless question. A BH has mass. There is no 'phase'.

Charge how so and what form?


There is only electrical charge. Is there a reason you never studied any physics?

QUOTE
Spin!! What does the spinning? The overall mass or the votex?


The mass of a BH can spin, dragging space/time around with it. It's called frame dragging.

Harry Costas
G'day Alex

What do you know about the phases of matter?
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