To add comments or start new threads please go to the full version of: Billion Dollar Blunder
PhysForum Science, Physics and Technology Discussion Forums > General Sci-Tech Discussions > Other Sci-Tech Topics

enostbuckle
Pending Doom

Ford is following closely behind in GM's footsteps. With a market value of $16 billion, they're burning cash to the extent that their bonds are now rated, at best, as borderline junk bonds. Their pension assets are $67 billion with pension debt of $111 billion. They're under-funding their pension to the tune of $45 billion and if the US Congress has its way, Ford will have to anti-up that money in 5 years. If the pension deal doesn't make them go belly-up, their health care costs will.

Guest
good.
Drude
kind of sad. I always liked Ford, and I still think with a little creative thinking they can fix it. Like Bently, Rolls-Royce, Ford will most likely be bought by VW, or BMW, or even GM or Toyota. Some cars are just too good to let die. If it ever plummets beyond a level, then BMW might just buy it and preserve it for the heck of its old traditional name.


It is sad thou, cuz Ford is no less a crappy car than acura, or honda. Speaking of which I am planing to file a law suit against Honda for falsifying their gas mileage in their honda civic hybrids. 48 MPG my ***! liars! My car is checked by the dealer and said to be functioning well and it is burning a pathetic 30 MPG. I could buy a VW Jetta and it would give me more than 30 MPG. Anyhow, Ford might be a crappy car but so is Honda. Did I also mention that my transmision started to make a crying noise two weeks after I bought the car?
Silvia
QUOTE (Drude+Feb 5 2006, 01:17 AM)
kind of sad. I always liked Ford, and I still think with a little creative thinking they can fix it. Like Bently, Rolls-Royce, Ford will most likely be bought by VW, or BMW, or even GM or Toyota. Some cars are just too good to let die. If it ever plummets beyond a level, then BMW might just buy it and preserve it for the heck of its old traditional name.


It is sad thou, cuz Ford is no less a crappy car than acura, or honda. Speaking of which I am planing to file a law suit against Honda for falsifying their gas mileage in their honda civic hybrids. 48 MPG my ***! liars! My car is checked by the dealer and said to be functioning well and it is burning a pathetic 30 MPG. I could buy a VW Jetta and it would give me more than 30 MPG. Anyhow, Ford might be a crappy car but so is Honda. Did I also mention that my transmision started to make a crying noise two weeks after I bought the car?

Hi,

i agree with you and i like ford and mg. the cabrio´s from mg are so hot!
El_Machinae
The average union worker should be socking away money as fast as they can, so they can upgrade their education and afford to move to a new town.

I bet they don't realise that.
Drude
why? some workers make much more money than some of these people who dedicate their life to education. Education is overrated. It is practically a waste of money beyond a limit. One has to really find out what matters in his or her life. Education alone is just a waste of money to be honest. only a few % of the world uses their educations to do something constructive like build a car, a house, or even design a rocket. The rest simply use their "hands on experience" and their books barely help them.
El_Machinae
Because, if the plants close, they're going to lose their jobs. Then there will be a flood of workers with the same qualifications trying to scrap for any work in the area.

The trick, in that dog-eat-dog scenario, is to distinguish yourself (via additional accreditation) or moving to an area that isn't flooded with desperate people (or both). At that point, every single worker will have wished they had planned better.

I rarely use smilies, but I find it funny that you think getting an education does not give a competitive advantage to people.
aspotting
To upgrade your education it is necessary to have the will in yourself. If you don´t want to learn more to become a better position in life or job you don´t have to.
In my experiences you must learn every day more and more to surviving in our world. user posted image
solidspin
hello, all -

El Machinae - you're assuming a closed set. If you get more education (like I'm struggling to do) and start your own company (which I have), you now have an open set and are no longer relying on the dumb f&cks that are running the "Big 3" - soon to be the big 2.

HOWEVER............

Ford, GM, DC, American Airlines, United, et al. have all made the same blunderous error, thanks to Congress. Congress (through a loophole that lobbyists suggested when the bill was passed in the 80's) allowed for companies who have defined benefits plans (i.e. pensions, benefits for workers) to NOT CONTRIBUTE fully (as a percent of total revenue) to the pension plans. Secondly, the money managers assumed a ridiculous appreciation rate in their securities (stocks, bonds, market, etc.) which, the plan went, would generate enough income to cover the future bills.

wrooooooooooong!

Now, the taxpayer (i.e. - the poor working schmos - like us) is footing the bill through a provision (also created by the crooks and liars in Congress) called the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation (PBGC). The PBGC just bailed out United airlines to the tune of over $9b and the PBGC is currently in the hole about $24b total.

So, we get stuck w/ the bill and the crooks and liars go merrily on their way - where is Grumpy when you need him????
El_Machinae
QUOTE
El Machinae - you're assuming a closed set.


Yeah, you're right. But, you'll admit that 99% of people operate as if there is a closed set. I wish you the best luck. (What type of company are you trying to start?)

I'm not suggesting anything too difficult, I'm just suggesting that union workers save more of their money than they are. When you can see the writing on the wall (the jobs are going to disappear), then it's the only logical option.
zwerg007
good
Mandy24
@ Silvia

Hi, i agree with you too and i love my mg. the cabrios from mg are the hottest!
Marcel707
Das sind hier sehr interessante Kommentars und eine sehr gute Seite, macht weiter so
Caroline23
Hi, I am Caroline and I drive a BMW Convertible 330Ci.
This is my Dreamcar. smile.gif My Webpage
Marcel
BMW is the best, forget rest
kaneda
Ford has diversified out of motors in the last 3-4 decades and while the motoring section has suffered with many blunders from people who don't have a clue being allowed to run the company (making big cars when small cars are selling, using tyres which cause crashes, etc), Ford still has a lot of money.
kaneda
The real billion dollar blunder :

The Iraq war which has wrecked the country, driven many muslims into the arms of Al Qaeda, and every four days costs American tax payers another billion dollars (this is without 20,000 or more extra troops.)
kaneda
QUOTE (Guest+Feb 4 2006, 04:37 PM)
good.

Let all the pensioners starve? sad.gif
bares123
BMW is quite hot and quite fast. I also have one as my one!
sexgeschichte
Hy , i am mark and i love my BMW 3 . is the finest car in the world . and believe me, the lady likes it!
silverhaze
Hy ,i am not convinced concerning the bmw 3 series. I've heard they had some troubles with the electronics. regards
PhysOrg scientific forums are totally dedicated to science, physics, and technology. Besides topical forums such as nanotechnology, quantum physics, silicon and III-V technology, applied physics, materials, space and others, you can also join our news and publications discussions. We also provide an off-topic forum category. If you need specific help on a scientific problem or have a question related to physics or technology, visit the PhysOrg Forums. Here you’ll find experts from various fields online every day.
To quit out of "lo-fi" mode and return to the regular forums, please click here.