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xtrmn8r
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/...70907150931.htm

Every ancient culture and religion has some variation on a great flood most of which are very similar. Does anyone think there was not a catastrophic flood?
Guest_axemaster
Yes, there was one when the Caspian Sea flooded into the Medditerranean a few thousand years ago. Good chance of a match.

-Axemaster
PeterROwen
It was the other way around axemaster!
xtrmn8r
http://www.crystalinks.com/floodstories.html

The similarities between flood stories from cultures thousands of miles apart can't account for territorial flooding. There was either a deluge on a world wide scale, or there was travel on a global scale long before we considered it possible. Somehow these stories became known to every civilization at the same time.
El_Machinae
If the Biblical Flood occured, wouldn't all cultures have stories about migrating to where they are, after a huge flood dumped off their ancestors in Turkey?

Why does a claim that a local flood occured support the Global Flood theory? Local floods are a dime-a-dozen.

Regarding 'doubt' about a Biblical Flood: how did the vipers/monkeys/frogs get back to South America? They couldn't take the (very cold) land bridge the people took.
Guest_Nick
The age of the universe astronomers calculate from the time it takes for the most distant object's light to reach us. THis is 13 billion years. What they forgot to include was the time it took for the universe to expand and carry that object to that distance. When you include the expansion of the universe in the calculation the age of the universe is 35 billion.

Mitch Raemsch
xtrmn8r
El_Machinae Posted on 9/16/07 at 2:28 PM

QUOTE
If the Biblical Flood occurred, wouldn't all cultures have stories about migrating to where they are, after a huge flood dumped off their ancestors in Turkey?


QUOTE (->
QUOTE
If the Biblical Flood occurred, wouldn't all cultures have stories about migrating to where they are, after a huge flood dumped off their ancestors in Turkey?


Regarding 'doubt' about a Biblical Flood: how did the vipers/monkeys/frogs get back to South America?


The myths do not talk about traveling to the places these people are now. Most of the flood stories occur in the region of origin.

No answer to your second question, still thinking about this.

N O M
QUOTE (xtrmn8r+Sep 16 2007, 12:39 PM)
Every ancient culture and religion has some variation on a great flood most of which are very similar. Does anyone think there was not a catastrophic flood?

What a load of garbage.

The religion you choose to follow was thought up by a bunch of inbred goat herders, who had no knowledge of science and were so gullible they thought the tide going out was their priest calling on the power of god to part the water. As far as they were concerned when the little valley they lived in flooded it was the whole world.
xtrmn8r
Hi NOM

I would buy this argument if the myths were not so similar. I agree that ancient man was not sophisticated enough to understand what was happening, but the legends all tell virtually the same story.
Guest_Joseph
I to would agree with others who say that a lot of the Myths we're a result of the low level of knowledge about the world. However,.. i also agree with another person who cited that the existence of a myth concerning a great flood is almost across the board and is integrated into various societies and belief systems. In my opinion that should not appear strange,.instead what should appear strange is the virtual non existence of the History of Mans culture before these flood myths come on to the scene. For reasons thus far not found,.Mans cultural and social History,.cannot be traced reliably much further than a few thousand years. This if considered in context,.say in comparison to archaeological data,.and paleontology studies,..leaves a vast chasm of time on the order of at least a hundred thousand years,.in which very little cultural or societal information has been discovered.

Of course there are those who would argue that at that time Man was basically a nomad with very little in the way of cognitive ability,.I disagree with that premise,or theory,.because in such a situation Culture and Society should have logically arose simultaneously around the world,.. and not in specific areas,..as we see it today.

thanks just and opinion
N O M
QUOTE (xtrmn8r+Sep 17 2007, 03:23 PM)
Hi NOM

I would buy this argument if the myths were not so similar. I agree that ancient man was not sophisticated enough to understand what was happening, but the legends all tell virtually the same story.

Oh yeah, those aboriginal dreamtime myths are all about Noah blink.gif Just like all the mentions of koalas and kangaroos on the ark laugh.gif

No flood myths in the pacific. They'd kinda notice the sea level rising on their little attols huh.gif Oh, yeah. The bible is all about how Noah stopped by to drop his Easter Island mates off just after he unloaded the llamas.

Don't remember any dodos or moa beign on the ark. Oh yeah, they're extinct.
IMCREATED
There is scientific evidence that does in fact support a global flood. Dr. John Baumgardner has developed a "3-D spherical-shell finite-element model for the earth's mantle". "U.S. News and World Report called Dr. Baumgardner ‘the world’s preeminent expert in the design of computer convection.’" Dr. John Baumgardner
globalflood.org

QUOTE
Oh yeah, those aboriginal dreamtime myths are all about Noah blink.gif Just like all the mentions of koalas and kangaroos on the ark laugh.gif


NOM, I don't believe that the Bible mentions any specific animals on the ark. It only mentions "two of each kind". That would include koalas and kangaroos.
N O M
One crackpot creationist claiming to be a scientist doesn't constitute "scientific evidence". There is plenty of real evidence against a global flood.

Just how big was this ark? Two of everything? So he spent centuries traversing the globe collecting these millions of species, then several centuries putting them back?

What did the two of everything carnivores eat for the decades before the prey species built up the numbers to sustain them?

Since we are talking a global flood, don't forget he would have had to collect all the fresh water fish, and all the plants.
What about places like the great barrier reef, that and every species on it would have been wiped out by such a flood. Oh, were they all on the ark as well?

Face it, it was a good fairy story, especially with the unicorns, but that's all.
gmilam
QUOTE (xtrmn8r+Sep 15 2007, 07:39 PM)
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/...70907150931.htm

Every ancient culture and religion has some variation on a great flood most of which are very similar. Does anyone think there was not a catastrophic flood?

Do you mean some people still believe that there was a worldwide flood?

So, where did all that water come from? And where did it go?
El_Machinae
QUOTE (xtrmn8r+Sep 17 2007, 03:23 AM)
Hi NOM

I would buy this argument if the myths were not so similar. I agree that ancient man was not sophisticated enough to understand what was happening, but the legends all tell virtually the same story.

Right, but their myths are similar in that a Flood occured where they are now. That would happen if there were local floods (and those are very, very common). The Biblical Flood tale tells of a flood that wouldn't have left any survivors where they are now.

There were likely local floods that lead into the jewish myth, I don't mind that.

Ask yourself, if I found geological evidence of a (temporarily) re-directed river in Greece, would that validate the story of Hercules and his labours? I don't think so, since there are hundreds of natural reasons for why a river might be temporarily redirected and there are tens of thousands of historical examples of such events.
xtrmn8r

N O M

QUOTE
No flood myths in the pacific.


Oh yes there is!

http://www.crystalinks.com/floodstories3.html

El_Machinae

QUOTE (->
QUOTE
No flood myths in the pacific.


Oh yes there is!

http://www.crystalinks.com/floodstories3.html

El_Machinae

The Biblical Flood tale tells of a flood that wouldn't have left any survivors where they are now.


This is my point, some of the other stories predate the bible. One cannot use the bible as the ultimate reference to historical events.
Jeremy Fisher
QUOTE (xtrmn8r+Sep 18 2007, 02:00 AM)

This is my point, some of the other stories predate the bible. One cannot use the bible as the ultimate reference to historical events.

dont be daft. the bible is the ultimate reference book dimwit. laugh.gif
xtrmn8r
Jeremy Fisher Posted on Today at 7:06 PM
QUOTE (xtrmn8r @ Sep 18 2007, 02:00 AM)

This is my point, some of the other stories predate the bible. One cannot use the bible as the ultimate reference to historical events.


QUOTE
dont be daft. the bible is the ultimate reference book dimwit.


First of all there is no reason to be insulting wink.gif

Secondly,the bible is a plagiarized book written hundreds of years after the original lore and the books of the bible were determined by Constantine at the Council of Nicaea. Some very interesting material was purposely left out so to create the current religious philosophy. The bibile IS NOT the ultimate reference book.. you dimwit.
axemaster
Thanks for the correction, though I'm actually having some trouble looking up the subject smile.gif

QUOTE
One crackpot creationist claiming to be a scientist doesn't constitute "scientific evidence". There is plenty of real evidence against a global flood.

Just how big was this ark? Two of everything? So he spent centuries traversing the globe collecting these millions of species, then several centuries putting them back?

What did the two of everything carnivores eat for the decades before the prey species built up the numbers to sustain them?

Since we are talking a global flood, don't forget he would have had to collect all the fresh water fish, and all the plants.
What about places like the great barrier reef, that and every species on it would have been wiped out by such a flood. Oh, were they all on the ark as well?

Face it, it was a good fairy story, especially with the unicorns, but that's all.


NOM, I can see where you're coming from, and I sympathize. However, you're not being fair. Don't take the story literally. Over thousands of years there are probably plenty of massive floods just about everywhere.

Let's say a flood happens. Some fisherman wants to save his goats, so he puts them in his boat, along with his family. The flood takes a few days to recede (common with floods), and since it's the lowcountry, it looks like the entire world is underwater. He believes the entire world has flooded. Pretty good start on the Great Flood, eh? All you need now is some storytelling, and...

QUOTE (->
QUOTE
One crackpot creationist claiming to be a scientist doesn't constitute "scientific evidence". There is plenty of real evidence against a global flood.

Just how big was this ark? Two of everything? So he spent centuries traversing the globe collecting these millions of species, then several centuries putting them back?

What did the two of everything carnivores eat for the decades before the prey species built up the numbers to sustain them?

Since we are talking a global flood, don't forget he would have had to collect all the fresh water fish, and all the plants.
What about places like the great barrier reef, that and every species on it would have been wiped out by such a flood. Oh, were they all on the ark as well?

Face it, it was a good fairy story, especially with the unicorns, but that's all.


NOM, I can see where you're coming from, and I sympathize. However, you're not being fair. Don't take the story literally. Over thousands of years there are probably plenty of massive floods just about everywhere.

Let's say a flood happens. Some fisherman wants to save his goats, so he puts them in his boat, along with his family. The flood takes a few days to recede (common with floods), and since it's the lowcountry, it looks like the entire world is underwater. He believes the entire world has flooded. Pretty good start on the Great Flood, eh? All you need now is some storytelling, and...

There is scientific evidence that does in fact support a global flood. Dr. John Baumgardner has developed a "3-D spherical-shell finite-element model for the earth's mantle". "U.S. News and World Report called Dr. Baumgardner ‘the world’s preeminent expert in the design of computer convection.’" Dr. John Baumgardner
globalflood.org


Uh huh... If you believe that, you'll believe anything. Hey, I'll trade you $10 for $50! It's a great deal, trust me!

-Axemaster
xtrmn8r
gmilam Posted: Today at 3:39 PM

QUOTE
Do you mean some people still believe that there was a worldwide flood?

So, where did all that water come from? And where did it go?


Apparently some do think there was a global flood.

If a meteor of sufficient size were to strike the Atlantic or Pacific ocean, would that create tsunami or flooding on a global scale?



N O M
QUOTE (axemaster+Sep 18 2007, 02:32 PM)
NOM, I can see where you're coming from, and I sympathize. However, you're not being fair. Don't take the story literally. Over thousands of years there are probably plenty of massive floods just about everywhere.

Let's say a flood happens. Some fisherman wants to save his goats, so he puts them in his boat, along with his family. The flood takes a few days to recede (common with floods), and since it's the lowcountry, it looks like the entire world is underwater. He believes the entire world has flooded. Pretty good start on the Great Flood, eh? All you need now is some storytelling, and...

My point exactly. Then all you need is a few gullible idiots around a campfire followed by three thousand years of inbreeding.
N O M
QUOTE (xtrmn8r+Sep 18 2007, 02:00 PM)
Oh yes there is!

http://www.crystalinks.com/floodstories3.html

I'm no expert on the other Pacific legends, but the Māori legends have been horribly misquoted. To the point of being outright lies and fabrications.
xtrmn8r
N O M

QUOTE
I'm no expert on the other Pacific legends, but the Māori legends have been horribly misquoted. To the point of being outright lies and fabrications


Source, Please.
N O M
QUOTE (xtrmn8r+Sep 18 2007, 03:11 PM)
gmilam
QUOTE (xtrmn8r+Sep 17 2007, 09:48 PM)
gmilam Posted: Today at 3:39 PM



Apparently some do think there was a global flood.

If a meteor of sufficient size were to strike the Atlantic or Pacific ocean, would that create tsunami or flooding on a global scale?

On a global scale? Enough to cover Mt Ararat? I have my doubts.
John A
sea level

Yes, there was worldwide flooding.
gmilam
QUOTE (John A+Sep 18 2007, 07:46 AM)
sea level

Yes, there was worldwide flooding.

That's not what your chart shows. blink.gif
John A
QUOTE (gmilam+Sep 18 2007, 01:13 PM)
That's not what your chart shows.  blink.gif


Sure it does. I don't know how anyone could say that a 120 meter rise in sea level doesn't equate to global flooding. blink.gif wink.gif
K. Margiani
It would be very interesting for analyze what taking place 12000 years ago on the Earth and what can dwellers anticipate before geocatastrophe. Flood will happen again… By the historical sources, archaeological researches, and another scientific researches have proved the geocatastrophe really happened 12,000 years ago.
In reality during these two days of the flood had been powerful shock shaking and strong earthquakes all over the Earth. Continental and oceanic lithosphere platforms were under totally shaking. Many volcanoes began eruption simultaneously on the Earth surface and from the oceans beds cracks. From oceanic lithosphere platforms borders colossal amount of fiery masses of the asthenosphere were flowing into the ocean (across rift zones) by this time. All of this geocatastrophic events caused intensive and long-lasting boiling and evaporation process of water. This was followed by heavy rainfall, which lasted for many weeks. Thick black clouds of volcanic ash covered almost the whole planet Earth. Tropical zone for short time period and other region for longer time period didn’t experience the influence of the Sun. The reason of the huge boiling and evaporation of water masses was erupted liquid fiery magma masses from Asthenosphere into oceans. After such detail explanation it’s easy to understand why the heavy rainfall lasted about several weeks on the Earth. In different areas of the Earth, duration of rain falls was different. In some places it rained for a few weeks only, in others 40 days and so on. All this of course could be connected with definite areas location relatively to the sea level, nearness of the regions to oceans and seas and other factors. Huge volcanic suffocate gasses was spreading into atmosphere during floods, and changed the percentage of atmospheric chemical consistence and chemical composition. During a long time this caused very influence on the life of mammals’ kingdom.
Floods were covering huge areas of the land by this time. Because of the geological platforms total shaking, water flown out from the coasts, greatly ruptured fauna and very damage flora. In soil layers, which existed 12000 years ago, find out volcanic ash and sea mud, almost several hundred meters height deposited there from sea level. At the left coast of South America water reached 900 meter from sea level. It means Pacific Ocean bed is main sours of huge deformations, vibrations and floods.
12000 years ago volcanic dust was ascended and existed into high layers of atmosphere for a long time period. Because of volcanic dust and thick black clouds the Earth lacked Sun’s warmth. Many fishes were boiled alive in seas and oceans. After few months on the most part of Earth temperature began to fall down, which did freezing for several months follow. Mainly tropical zone survived this process. It enabled elephants and other big mammals to survive and not disappear totally.
Ocean bed was shaking at the beginning stage of the flood during 2 days and caused huge vibration of zero level of oceans. Global shaking of continental and oceanic lithosphere platforms changed izostatical balance. Because of slowly rising and submerging movements of continental platforms, their geographical contours were changed as well. Temporal drift of continents was few day. A slow process displacement of tiles has been known long ago. The renewing process of the ocean bed is going in the Pacific Ocean still. Such process could never caused formation of new mountain ranges. This process only causes melting process of solid ocean bed hard masses into asthenosphere little by little.
Let’s imagine for a second, what a catastrophe of a small power in today’s conditions could be followed by. Modern process of cooling in asthenosphere little by little forms colossal pressure. Periodic volcanic explosions can’t neutralize this burst pressure. It can be neutralized only by periodic small power of geocatastrophe (flood). Long - lasting shaking of Earth crust will activates many passive volcanoes and creates many new ones. Liquid magma will flow through the cracks between the lithosphere plates spatially through mid-ocean ridges. The process of Earth crust shaking during several days will erase totally all settlements of the Earth. Giant disaster will kill a huge number of people. Heavy rains lasting many weeks will cause terrible floods. From destroyed power plant dams colossal masses of water flow. Huge masses of water from oceanic depth will cover huge places of the land and will destroy almost everything that escaped disaster. Global shaking of ocean beds will cause pouring out of huge water masses from oceanic depth on the land. The final stage of Apocalypse is a glacial. Many those survived creatures in such low temperature will be killed. Strange conditions with warm seas, oceans and continents covered by snow and ice will appear on the Earth. Alive boiling fishes will decay in oceans and seas. The decaying process will be same on the continents as well. Together with the cold, as a result of starvation many creatures on the Earth will die as well. Ruins of many cities close to oceans and seas coasts will sink fully and forever. At the initial stage of flood strongest storms occur. Reason will be fast movement of atmospheric streams. During this stage many volcanoes will explode simultaneously.
xtrmn8r

An update of an old debate.

QUOTE
Their consensus was that an abundance of physical and cultural evidence confirmed that periodic close encounters of a large comet from the 5th Millennium B.C. to the early 11th Century B.C. were responsible for several eras of wide-spread destruction on the Earth's surface, including the forced end of the Bronze Age.


http://www.world-mysteries.com/newgw/atlantis_fj.htm
hawksecho
While some areas of the world have some evidence of a post-glacial, post-ice age "deluge", such as the Black Sea, there is no evidence that the world was affected by any thing like this. Since I view the Bible as allegory and not science it makes sense that the idea of a "total" flood has at it's roots in classic myths of creation/destruction/rebirth. As for not having much information prior to known ancient cultures, there is little evidence if any of societal based written communication prior to the end of the last ice age. We do have however cave and rock paintings going back several tens of thousands of years. Due to the lack of communication other then verbal between differing groups prior to the end of the ice age most of the art work is highly individualized (not alphabet based). Yet we do see highly realistic and representative as well as abstract paintings all over. As for the concept of an ark, and the need to get life forms of all kinds unless your dealing in metaphor things get so silly as to be incapable of rational argument.
paul h
NOM,
>Just how big was this ark? Two of everything? So he spent centuries traversing the globe collecting these millions of species, then several centuries putting them back?


Knowing the answers to these 3 or 4 questions will not change your thinking but, if you want to find the answers,,, read the Bible for the answers. If your going to slam the flood theory, at least get it right first, then do your best to debate it. That's OK but, The statements you made here are like debating global warming with someone that heard someone else's take on the Al Gore movie and they are now convinced that we are all going to die in 10 years. In order to debate anything one must first understand their opponent's view.
BigDumbWeirdo
I haven't thoroughly read all the posts in this thread, but has it occurred to anyone that instead of one worldwide flood there may have been a few year period of many local floods? That would explain it all, including why the bible and other sources describe a worldwide flood. After all, when a foreign army or trader showed up, they too would have tales of flooding that occurred around the same time...
hawksecho
To BigDumbWeirdo:Yes localized floods were a dime a dozen, yet had nothing to do with a "global " flood. i have never remotely seen or heard any argument in favor of a this. Floods terrified people as they still do, often in the past because destruction was maximal, and these things happened often with little or no warning. between an affirmation that life could in a hart beat be taken, as well as assuring people that there are certain natural cycles. Again, I base my views on the Bible was allegorical and not historic for the most part. Of course there are those who take the Bible, despite multiple translations over a long period of time as true word for word. Certainly we all have a right to this or any opinion, some of mine might or might not concur with others. Last the idea of a universal flood to me is better explained as part of the archetypal need to explain the unexplainable then actual events.
BigDumbWeirdo
QUOTE (hawksecho+Dec 9 2007, 01:13 PM)
To BigDumbWeirdo:Yes localized floods were a dime a dozen, yet had nothing to do with a "global " flood. i have never remotely seen or heard any argument in favor of a this. Floods terrified people as they still do, often in the past because destruction was maximal, and these things happened often with little or no warning. between an affirmation that life could in a hart beat be taken, as well as assuring people that there are certain natural cycles. Again, I base my views on the Bible was allegorical and not historic for the most part. Of course there are those who take the Bible, despite multiple translations over a long period of time as true word for word. Certainly we all have a right to this or any opinion, some of mine might or might not concur with others. Last the idea of a universal flood to me is better explained as part of the archetypal need to explain the unexplainable then actual events.

You seem to be misunderstanding me... I'm suggesting that there might have been a period of -say- 5 years of heavy flooding around the world near the end of the most recent period of glaciation that might have made for stories that survived generations, and when distant groups met and exchanged stories, the universal presense of such stories gave rise to the myth of a global flood, which in turn, would change over time, resulting in the tale set forth in the bible.
As you pointed out, flood terrify the people affected by them, especially in a time when there weren't boats in every other backyard, and rescue crews standing by in helicopters to save the victims. Why wouldn't such stories stand the test of time?
Also, why wouldn't there have been at least one period of intense flooding as glaciers melted? If anything, I think there would have been a much longer period than 5 or 10 years in which flooding was more than just a common occurence, but a constant, looming danger for anyone living too far north or south, and there almost certainly was at least 1 year in which the number of floods in temperate regions was much higher than the average during the last period of glacial melting...
scope
Does anyone else have suspicions about the theoretical Planet X? I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but if such a celestial body did have an orbit close enough to our solar system, catastrophic events could happen much in the way of biblical end-of-day revelations.

Apparently. I'm not an expert in this field. I'm proposing a question.
paul h
QUOTE (scope+Dec 11 2007, 07:24 PM)
Does anyone else have suspicions about the theoretical Planet X? I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but if such a celestial body did have an orbit close enough to our solar system, catastrophic events could happen much in the way of biblical end-of-day revelations.

Apparently. I'm not an expert in this field. I'm proposing a question.

Scope,
I am a firm believer that the catastrophic events will happen exactly the way of biblical end-of-day revelations.
But to cut to the chase the book of Revelations predicts allot of things that are for the most part social events. War, famine, pestilence. The peak of a war would be just about to destroy mankind but it will be stopped by a discovery of an inbound space object (comet or large rock) This some how will make a war useless if we are about to be hit by an L.E.O. (BTW it does hit) There are many objects that could causes this but I don't know about any Planet X. I'm sure that if it was there we would have found it by now. A few years ago I heard that there were more employees at the average McDonalds than people looking for space rocks large enough to destroy man. Perhaps this has changed now but, if found what could we do about it?
xtrmn8r
Hi paul h,

scope was refering to Zacharia Sitchins books about planet X. I doubt you would agree with him, but he has the history of humans all figured out.(?) blink.gif

"SITCHIN, Zacharia. Earth Chronicles, 6 Vols.
For greatest comprehension, it is suggested that these books be read in order of publication and with a very open mind. The ideas are intriguing even if academic-level proof is lacking.

Order the first book of the Earth Chronicles, The Twelfth Planet (Bear & Co., 1991) Sitchen's first book in his series on humanity's extraterrestrial forefathers.

Order the second book, The Stairway to Heaven (Avon, 1996)
Sitchen takes us to the legendary Land of the Gods, and provides revelations about the Great Pyramids, the Sphinx, and other mysterious monuments whose true meanings and purposes have been lost.

Order the third book, The Wars of Gods and Men (Avon, 1995)
Sitchen investigates the origins of Giza, Baalbek, Jerusalem, and other mysterious sites; time-wise, beginning with the earliest recorded times on earth going through the time of the old testament. Find out who Abraham "really" was.

Order the fourth book, The Lost Realms (Avon, 1996)
Sitchin again turns to ancient sources for proof supporting his theories that millennia ago alien visitors shaped our destiny.

Order the fifth book, Genesis Revsited (Avon, 1995)
A re-evaluation of the Bible's book of Genesis.

Order the fifth book, The Cosmic Code (Avon, 1998)
Many thousands of years ago, extraordinary beings guided the evolution of life on earth, determining the very nature of humankind we know today."

BigDumbWeirdo
QUOTE (xtrmn8r+Dec 11 2007, 07:31 PM)
Hi paul h,

scope was refering to Zacharia Sitchins books about planet X. I doubt you would agree with him, but he has the history of humans all figured out.(?) blink.gif
...

Yeah, just like Farsight's got physics all figured out.
Assumptions needed to swallow Sitchin's theories.
1: No-one but him knows how to read the Sumerian language.
2: He learned how to read it entirely on his own.
3: Every respected academic in the world with any knowledge of Sumerian culture or beliefs is wrong. (except him, of course)
4: Aliens are STILL modifying our DNA, without anyone being the wiser. (except him, of course)
5: The laws of physics operate differently than mainstream science believes. (regardless of evidence.)
6: a technologically advanced culture used primitive techniques to mine gold.
7: Humans were "designed" by this culture. (forget all the flaws in our design, and the fact that even with our current level of medical knowledge, we could design {if not create} a creature much more efficient than ourselves)
8: Humans (and aliens) had and used nuclear weapons 2000 years ago.
If you believe those things or are at least willing to, then this guy is worth reading! biggrin.gif
If not, then PLEASE don't read any of his work. It's painful.
I know. I read one his books once... And that was back when I believed in alien abductions and bigfoot and angels and demons, yet I STILL found his theories to be outlandish and... Retarded, for lack of a better word.
paul h
xtrmn8r,
Well,,I had thought that he was referring to a mystery planet that was hiding behind the sun or something like that (I remember something about it from like 4th grade). The books sound like a good read. I like that sort of stuff. I do recall a tid bit about these type of theories.
paul h
BigDumbWeirdo,
Thanks,
But I do like that sort of stuff anyway. It's good for a laugh.
as for Farsight it sounds like he would be good for a laugh too.
xtrmn8r
Hi paul h, BDW,

The problem with writers like Sitchen and von Daeniken et al, is while they may explain humans on Earth, where did the aliens come from? It seems to me they have just compounded the problem of life in the universe. ph34r.gif
BigDumbWeirdo
QUOTE (xtrmn8r+Dec 11 2007, 08:18 PM)
Hi paul h, BDW,

The problem with writers like Sitchen and von Daeniken et al, is while they may explain humans on Earth, where did the aliens come from? It seems to me they have just compounded the problem of life in the universe. ph34r.gif

I tend to think the problems with such writers is that they're loony, but that's me laugh.gif
Their explanations are only valid if one does not posses a working knowledge of history. Sitchin claims that we had and used nuclear weapons 4000 years ago, resulting in the destruction of Ur. Well, that's all fine and good, until you consider that there's no indication of radioactive contamination of the site, let alone any indication of a nuclear blast. Then there's the kicker. Ur wasn't destroyed 4000 years ago. All the evidence suggests it was inhabited until about 500 BC.
Same holds true for the rest of that crowd. Their theories seem sound, until you learn more about history.
They answer all the questions that the average layman might have, but fail to address the evidence that the professionals have.
xtrmn8r
Hi BDW,

QUOTE
I tend to think the problems with such writers is that they're loony...


I agree, now, I didn't at one time, but I got a lot of entertainment and curiosity from these writers. I wonder, sometimes, if they REALLY believe there works or if it just sell books.(?) And we're way off topic here. We'll continure on your thread.
BigDumbWeirdo
QUOTE (xtrmn8r+Dec 11 2007, 09:04 PM)
Hi BDW,



I agree, now, I didn't at one time, but I got a lot of entertainment and curiosity from these writers. I wonder, sometimes, if they REALLY believe there works or if it just sell books.(?) And we're way off topic here. We'll continure on your thread.

Both, probably. They probably believed their basic theories, then hyped it all up to sell more copies. Then they probably started believing the hyped up versions.
Good point about being off topic.
Hawksecho doesn't seem to be around, does anyone else disagree/agree with what I posted earlier about a brief period of heavy local flooding? I don't have much to back it up with, but it's an idea that's occurred to me more than once. If someone wants to argue the point with me, it might actually motivate me to gather some evidence for the idea (I'm so lazy... laugh.gif )
Or I might give it up, depending.
I dunno. I guess I'm just rambling because I don't really have much to add to this thread, other than my idea. Oh yeah, and I don't believe the biblical account is factually accurate.
K. Margiani
Biblical flood was reason of small displacement between continental and oceans lithosphere platforms. It means small vertical and horisontal displacements of the platforms by huge pressure of asthenosphere.
It is possible, small (few hundred metre) asteroid impact was reason of this event too.
Modern cosmogeological theory. www.cosmogeology.ge
Sentient Marine
How about a Biblical flood based on racial memory that is still to come?

Point we 'assume' the arrow of time for de Sitter space and not the two time like lines as indicated by anti de Sitter space. So if there was an event that caused a great flood now like the charging of the atmosphere and the survivors went on to discover folded space and time travel their story of an unyet happened event could become folk law.

Scenario, a connection point that has not ever existed naturally on the earth connects the electrical power of the sun to a point on earth. Bit of a shame that, the electro corrosive effect would damage the site and leave an enormous pit. The thing is even a bird can land on a high voltage power line and be safe as long as it does not become the conduit for power transfer. The storm takes forty days to dissipate the energy discharge, and a very impressive lightening display is recorded.

Since we are talking Biblical and this is acknowledged as the time of the seventh seal a world electrocution event fits the description. How else would a person from 2000 years ago without the knowledge of electricity describe a continuous arc. Or motorcycle imagery of a rider in flames, quantum connected thought or the highest point for an unprotected individual not grounded and on synthetic tires as insulators. Carbon based rubber conducted electricity but not the modern tire.

Electric high voltage arc water bridges form when pure water has 15,000 volts applied. Imagine what millions of volts to sea water could do. Then there is the rain. The charge could split the nitrogen and the carbon dioxide and start the formation of carbon-nitrogen linked compounds of which cyanide is one. Wormwood is bitter water set to kill billions ... it could if it was cyanide impregnated. Primitive groups stir the water or aerate and allow to stand for many hours to allow bacteria to break the cyanide down to much safer cyanates.

How many zoos have colonys of animals, not many. The collection may already be in place. The last of many of humanities animals may be breeding pairs in special enclosures.

It would sit deep in the minds of those who survived such a disaster. It is also interesting what comes up in the minds of those who use meditation to try to understand as well as the written text. Just a thought.
PuckSR
How about this?

There never was a biblical flood....???

The fact that all cultures have a "global flood myth" is an urban myth.
Very few cultures have a global flood myth, and most of them exist in the Europe/middle east.

Of course, "global flood myths" showed up AFTER the countries where Christianized.

Here is a great example of a "flood myth" from another culture....
In Norse mythology, there are two separate deluges. According to the Prose Edda by Snorri Sturluson, the first occurred at the dawn of time before the world was formed. Ymir, the first giant, was killed by the god Odin and his brothers Vili and Ve, and when he fell, so much blood flowed from his wounds that it drowned almost the entire race of giants with the exception of the frost giant Bergelmir and his wife. They escaped in a ship and survived, becoming the progenitors of a new race of giants. Ymir's body was then used to form the earth while his blood became the sea.

The second, in the Norse mythological time cycle, is destined to occur in the future during the final battle between the gods and giants, known as Ragnarök. During this apocalyptic event, Jormungandr, the great World Serpent that lies beneath the sea surrounding Midgard, the realm of mortals, will rise up from the watery depths to join the conflict, resulting in a catastrophic flood that will drown the land. However, following Ragnarök the earth will be reborn and a new age of humanity will begin.

So...in Norse myth the flood wiped out the "frost giants" at the beginning of time?
Yeah, that sounds like Noah....
Oh, and it was a "flood of blood"

thinker
Pretty sure that oral tradition has its ways of twisting a story. If any of you are thinking that the flood was global (no land above water), I think you should consider the possibility of the fact that flooding the whole Earth makes a story sound better.
El_Machinae
The Norse myth is pretty much proven by the fact that there aren't any giants anymore! biggrin.gif
Sapo
QUOTE (PuckSR+Jan 17 2008, 09:31 PM)
How about this?

There never was a biblical flood....???

The fact that all cultures have a "global flood myth" is an urban myth.
Very few cultures have a global flood myth, and most of them exist in the Europe/middle east.

Of course, "global flood myths" showed up AFTER the countries where Christianized.

Here is a great example of a "flood myth" from another culture....
In Norse mythology, there are two separate deluges. According to the Prose Edda by Snorri Sturluson, the first occurred at the dawn of time before the world was formed. Ymir, the first giant, was killed by the god Odin and his brothers Vili and Ve, and when he fell, so much blood flowed from his wounds that it drowned almost the entire race of giants with the exception of the frost giant Bergelmir and his wife. They escaped in a ship and survived, becoming the progenitors of a new race of giants. Ymir's body was then used to form the earth while his blood became the sea.

The second, in the Norse mythological time cycle, is destined to occur in the future during the final battle between the gods and giants, known as Ragnarök. During this apocalyptic event, Jormungandr, the great World Serpent that lies beneath the sea surrounding Midgard, the realm of mortals, will rise up from the watery depths to join the conflict, resulting in a catastrophic flood that will drown the land. However, following Ragnarök the earth will be reborn and a new age of humanity will begin.

So...in Norse myth the flood wiped out the "frost giants" at the beginning of time?
Yeah, that sounds like Noah....
Oh, and it was a "flood of blood"

Fascinating that you bring up Norse mythology. I just put another server online, named Fafnir. Odd...
Rusty Shackleford
Science vs Norse Mythology
Sapo
That was fun, Rusty. Thanks!
barakn
QUOTE (Guest_axemaster+Sep 16 2007, 02:35 AM)
Yes, there was one when the Caspian Sea flooded into the Medditerranean a few thousand years ago. Good chance of a match.

-Axemaster

You're thinking of the flooding of the Black Sea.
photojack
QUOTE
The proposed deluge has been connected with various Great Flood myths, notably Noah's Flood.

Hershel Shanks, editor of the Biblical Archaeology Review, said that "all modern critical Bible scholars regard the tale of Noah as legendary. There are other flood stories, but if you want to see the Black Sea flood in Noah's flood, who's to say no?"
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_deluge_theory (Emphasis mine.)

The Biblical Archaeology Review is a respected, peer-reviewed publication that doesn't perpetuate myths. cool.gif They see through the legends, folklore and parables with scientific scrutiny and archaeological accuracy. They have debunked countless Biblical stories with valid evidence based on science. rolleyes.gif
El_Machinae
QUOTE (Rusty Shackleford+Jan 19 2008, 03:17 AM)
Science vs Norse Mythology

Exactly!

And I'd like to see the Theory of Evolution explain why I like to fill my nights with drunken parties and brawls! Odinism surely explains that! tongue.gif
Horta
I vaguely remember a flood story from a scientific point of view without a God causing Judgment. It went like this. There was once a civilization that was long ago and modern at least as modern as the technology of WWII. The earth's atmosphere was differant back then having a more unified temperature. The world was tropical all over. There were no polar ice caps back then. This protective layer of the atmosphere was suddenly brought down in buckets due to over saturation of pollutants much like today's thinner atmosphere. This extra atmosphere was gone forever once it rained down in the flood. Like today, mankind's arrogance and stuborness caused the flood. Just like today the Global Climate Change will destroy the earth. Humans never learn. It is better to Blame God for what mankind is doing all by him/her self. Einstein in discovering the grid proving no intervention from outside it can occur, shows it is our fault for the up coming disasters not a God or Devil. We as the human species have to bear that responsability for our stewardship of the earth. God can not always play the scape goat.
MaxTrans
QUOTE (Guest_Nick+Sep 16 2007, 10:21 PM)
The age of the universe astronomers calculate from the time it takes for the most distant object's light to reach us. This is 13 billion years. What they forgot to include was the time it took for the universe to expand and carry that object to that distance. When you include the expansion of the universe in the calculation the age of the universe is 35 billion.

Mitch Raemsch

Hello to all!
My name is Maxim. I'm new in here, so please be forgiving to any of my post, for as stupid as they may sometimes sound.
Any way.
Are you, Mitch Raemsch, a leading scientist in an astrophysics field? I'm not putting doubt to any of your words, but don't you think the guys sitting there are smart enough?
No hard feelings biggrin.gif
barakn
QUOTE (MaxTrans+Jan 28 2008, 06:50 AM)
Hello to all!
My name is Maxim. I'm new in here, so please be forgiving to any of my post, for as stupid as they may sometimes sound.
Any way.
Are you, Mitch Raemsch, a leading scientist in an astrophysics field? I'm not putting doubt to any of your words, but don't you think the guys sitting there are smart enough?
No hard feelings biggrin.gif

I'll cast doubt on his words. They aren't directly calculating the time it takes -- are they sitting there with a stopwatch with the amazing 13 billion year battery? They are actually using the redshift of very distant objects, and since redshift is due to the stretching of space they are automatically including that effect in their calculations.
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