QUOTE (newton+Mar 12 2006, 02:30 AM)
QUOTE (Commen sense+Mar 12 2006, 07:18 AM)
QUOTE (newton+Mar 12 2006, 07:12 AM)
i'll spell this out one more time.
a 'shill' is TOOL of a 'grifter'. the grifter is behind the scam, and 'he' is the benefactor of the 'grift/scam'.
a 'shill' can be a willing, complicit TOOL, or an unwilling TOOL whose views JUST HAPPEN to help the 'grifter' with his 'grift'.
k? you can be in the murderer car without agreeing with the motives and goals of the 'grifter' murderers.
mmmmmmmmm'k?
So basicly your saying your a murderer because you're helping Osama get away with his murder right? I agree.
no.
i think murder is wrong.
i think osama was involved.
i think bush is osama's bum buddy, and they and saddam have menage a trois at camp david.
k, 'liberal' whose worried about 'activists' getting 'sidetracked'?
u have no evidence of explosives
u have no evidence the governmet did shait
u are letting Bush get away with real murder in Iraq because ur idea is laughable and will never be taken serious
u are letting them muddy the push for an investigation into Bush's real crimes
u should be ashamed
k? u childish twit?
a 'shill' is TOOL of a 'grifter'. the grifter is behind the scam, and 'he' is the benefactor of the 'grift/scam'.
a 'shill' can be a willing, complicit TOOL, or an unwilling TOOL whose views JUST HAPPEN to help the 'grifter' with his 'grift'.
k? you can be in the murderer car without agreeing with the motives and goals of the 'grifter' murderers.
mmmmmmmmm'k?
So basicly your saying your a murderer because you're helping Osama get away with his murder right? I agree.
no.
i think murder is wrong.
i think osama was involved.
i think bush is osama's bum buddy, and they and saddam have menage a trois at camp david.
k, 'liberal' whose worried about 'activists' getting 'sidetracked'?
u have no evidence of explosives
u have no evidence the governmet did shait
u are letting Bush get away with real murder in Iraq because ur idea is laughable and will never be taken serious
u are letting them muddy the push for an investigation into Bush's real crimes
u should be ashamed
k? u childish twit?
QUOTE (Common NonSense+Mar 12 2006, 06:54 AM)
Cars flip over all the time when buildings collapse. It's a natural occurance.
At least that's what they told me in training before they put this computer in front of me.
They also told me that if I type in a large font no one will notice that I lie
YOU HAVE TO USE ALL CAPS AND BOLD, TOO! DUH! WHAT DIVISION ARE YOU IN? HEH!
At least that's what they told me in training before they put this computer in front of me.
They also told me that if I type in a large font no one will notice that I lie
YOU HAVE TO USE ALL CAPS AND BOLD, TOO! DUH! WHAT DIVISION ARE YOU IN? HEH!
QUOTE (newton+Mar 12 2006, 07:23 AM)
QUOTE (RealityCheck+Mar 12 2006, 07:11 AM)
Hi newt. Makes me wonder just how reliable/factual a witness (not witless) YOU would have made if you had been there under all that stress/angst/panic? I wonder which 'movie script' would have been uppermost in your mind that would have 'coloured/tailored' what YOU saw and heard while trying to ensure you didn't die in the middle of all that was happening?
RC.
.
holy non-sequitor, batman! get the cognitive dissonance repellent!!!!
why? why would that have any relevence at all to the reality of 911, reality check?
what i would do or report is completely moot, as far as i can tell.
but, you're a scientist, so what do i know?
eraserhead.
p.s. i'm not a mechanical recording device like a camera, or a video recorder with audio, or a VCR recording the live news broadcasts. they're not quite as confused by stress as humans, i hear.
Sorry newt, I had to go make some dinner. Back now.
Do you have a particular problem with my wondering what sort of things YOU'D be 'describing' (and in what 'imagey') if YOU had been caught up on the spot in the traumatic events of 9/11? Did I offend you by asking that?
Where's the non sequitur? Were their not 'interpretations' of 'sounds' being discussed? What's upset you so much?
RC.
.
u have no evidence of explosives
-----------------except for sonic signatures and pictures of violent ejections of debris, and nearly frictionless collapses of three steel frame buildings, two of which were award winning 'engineering marvels' when they were built, and molten metal, and pyroclastic flows and burned and flipped cars and the complete pulverisation of everything in the building including people, plastic, glass, concrete and wood into an ultrafine dust........
u have no evidence the governmet did shait
------------------except 'able danger' and 'northwoods' and bush's slip saying he saw the FRIST plane crash into the tower on TV, rumsfeld's slip that the terrorists used planes AND missiles AND (inaudible)............(i REALLY wonder what (inaudible) was. probably just cursed, realising he'd fooked up royally, lol)
u are letting Bush get away with real murder in Iraq because ur idea is laughable and will never be taken serious
-----------------------i TRIED to arrest him, but the entire military and legal might of the USA stopped me(by the way, he's YOUR boy, not mine, i'm not 'letting him get away' with anything, common clod)
u are letting them muddy the push for an investigation into Bush's real crimes
------------------------------------------and you!? what are YOU doing, 'liberal' crusader for justice?
u should be ashamed
k? u childish twit?
------------------------------------that means a lot coming from you. i'll rethink my whole life now. thanks, man.
*insert three mocking laughing sun worship icons here*
RC.
.
holy non-sequitor, batman! get the cognitive dissonance repellent!!!!
why? why would that have any relevence at all to the reality of 911, reality check?
what i would do or report is completely moot, as far as i can tell.
but, you're a scientist, so what do i know?
eraserhead.
p.s. i'm not a mechanical recording device like a camera, or a video recorder with audio, or a VCR recording the live news broadcasts. they're not quite as confused by stress as humans, i hear.
Sorry newt, I had to go make some dinner. Back now.
Do you have a particular problem with my wondering what sort of things YOU'D be 'describing' (and in what 'imagey') if YOU had been caught up on the spot in the traumatic events of 9/11? Did I offend you by asking that?
Where's the non sequitur? Were their not 'interpretations' of 'sounds' being discussed? What's upset you so much?
RC.
.
QUOTE (Commen sense+Mar 12 2006, 07:38 AM)
u have no evidence of explosives
-----------------except for sonic signatures and pictures of violent ejections of debris, and nearly frictionless collapses of three steel frame buildings, two of which were award winning 'engineering marvels' when they were built, and molten metal, and pyroclastic flows and burned and flipped cars and the complete pulverisation of everything in the building including people, plastic, glass, concrete and wood into an ultrafine dust........
u have no evidence the governmet did shait
------------------except 'able danger' and 'northwoods' and bush's slip saying he saw the FRIST plane crash into the tower on TV, rumsfeld's slip that the terrorists used planes AND missiles AND (inaudible)............(i REALLY wonder what (inaudible) was. probably just cursed, realising he'd fooked up royally, lol)
u are letting Bush get away with real murder in Iraq because ur idea is laughable and will never be taken serious
-----------------------i TRIED to arrest him, but the entire military and legal might of the USA stopped me(by the way, he's YOUR boy, not mine, i'm not 'letting him get away' with anything, common clod)
u are letting them muddy the push for an investigation into Bush's real crimes
------------------------------------------and you!? what are YOU doing, 'liberal' crusader for justice?
u should be ashamed
k? u childish twit?
------------------------------------that means a lot coming from you. i'll rethink my whole life now. thanks, man.
*insert three mocking laughing sun worship icons here*
QUOTE (RealityCheck+Mar 12 2006, 07:46 AM)
QUOTE (newton+Mar 12 2006, 07:23 AM)
QUOTE (RealityCheck+Mar 12 2006, 07:11 AM)
Hi newt. Makes me wonder just how reliable/factual a witness (not witless) YOU would have made if you had been there under all that stress/angst/panic? I wonder which 'movie script' would have been uppermost in your mind that would have 'coloured/tailored' what YOU saw and heard while trying to ensure you didn't die in the middle of all that was happening?
RC.
.
holy non-sequitor, batman! get the cognitive dissonance repellent!!!!
why? why would that have any relevence at all to the reality of 911, reality check?
what i would do or report is completely moot, as far as i can tell.
but, you're a scientist, so what do i know?
eraserhead.
p.s. i'm not a mechanical recording device like a camera, or a video recorder with audio, or a VCR recording the live news broadcasts. they're not quite as confused by stress as humans, i hear.
Sorry newt, I had to go make some dinner. Back now.
Do you have a particular problem with my wondering what sort of things YOU'D be 'describing' (and in what 'imagey') if YOU had been caught up on the spot in the traumatic events of 9/11? Did I offend you by asking that?
Where's the non sequitur? Were their not 'interpretations' of 'sounds' being discussed? What's upset you so much?
RC.
.
i'm not upset.
it's irrelevent. pure speculation. (i know you're more fond of pure speculation than empirical evidence, but i need a springboard to do any relevent extrapolation)
if i was there, i assume all the bad guys would be in jail by now, due to my impeccable heroic infallibility.
seriously, though. what's your point? i had a cop point a gun at my head once(he was chasing a suspect through a bus station, pointed his gun at the perp(alleged, lol) and the perp whipped around a corner leaving me in the line of fire.
i've been in quite a few life and death scrapes, dude, so i REALLY don't get your point. i drive fast, i've scaled buildings with my bare hands, operated cranes, been chased by a bear, etc. the mind goes into hyper-drive in intense situations and becomes MORE observant.
you know, 'time slowed down' is a common comment from experiencers of intense phenomena?
RC.
.
holy non-sequitor, batman! get the cognitive dissonance repellent!!!!
why? why would that have any relevence at all to the reality of 911, reality check?
what i would do or report is completely moot, as far as i can tell.
but, you're a scientist, so what do i know?
eraserhead.
p.s. i'm not a mechanical recording device like a camera, or a video recorder with audio, or a VCR recording the live news broadcasts. they're not quite as confused by stress as humans, i hear.
Sorry newt, I had to go make some dinner. Back now.
Do you have a particular problem with my wondering what sort of things YOU'D be 'describing' (and in what 'imagey') if YOU had been caught up on the spot in the traumatic events of 9/11? Did I offend you by asking that?
Where's the non sequitur? Were their not 'interpretations' of 'sounds' being discussed? What's upset you so much?
RC.
.
i'm not upset.
it's irrelevent. pure speculation. (i know you're more fond of pure speculation than empirical evidence, but i need a springboard to do any relevent extrapolation)
if i was there, i assume all the bad guys would be in jail by now, due to my impeccable heroic infallibility.
seriously, though. what's your point? i had a cop point a gun at my head once(he was chasing a suspect through a bus station, pointed his gun at the perp(alleged, lol) and the perp whipped around a corner leaving me in the line of fire.
i've been in quite a few life and death scrapes, dude, so i REALLY don't get your point. i drive fast, i've scaled buildings with my bare hands, operated cranes, been chased by a bear, etc. the mind goes into hyper-drive in intense situations and becomes MORE observant.
you know, 'time slowed down' is a common comment from experiencers of intense phenomena?
QUOTE (RealityCheck+Mar 12 2006, 01:56 AM)
QUOTE (Christophera+Mar 12 2006, 01:31 AM)
QUOTE (Commen sense+Mar 11 2006, 09:01 PM)
QUOTE (Christophera+Mar 11 2006, 09:00 PM)
QUOTE (newton+Mar 11 2006, 05:50 PM)
QUOTE (shagster+Mar 11 2006, 05:23 PM)
The puffs are initiated by the buckling. Part of the puff is the fireproofing covering the perimeter columns being crushed. Some is drywall from the offices. The puffs have a light color on the lower half of the buckled east side as the collapse starts. The same dust above the buckled zone has a darker color because the soot from the fires above is mixed in with it.
but the spire has been relieved of any crushing forces from above, so what would cause the remaining core columns to buckle? (which, by the way, i don't see any of. i see a straight spire get whacked on one side by some explosive force, and then begin to tip as a straight spire, and then fall straight down.)
i know RC has a theory about it, but surprisingly, i don't agree that things were moving around much at the base. it is also clear from the debris pile photos that the towers were peeled like a banana at the base. which indicates, forces radiating predominantly outward. obviously, this is also apparent for the (ultra fine) dust cloud.
That peeling effect is from the core exploding and pushing outward on the beams between the interior box columns.
No it's not. It's from falling apart all on it's own..
Okay, you say it falls apart on its own. Why is it going up so much?
Hi Chris, everyone. Isn't that about where the lower half of the core temporarily obstructs the downward collapse of the 'central' part of the debris 'plug' formed by most of the upper core, its inner concrete floor slabs and hat-truss?
If so, that's EXACTLY where I would expect an EXTRA AMOUNT of 'UP-rebound/SIDE-expulsion' effects before the remnant core itself succumbs to the DOUBTLESS damage that such a 'rebound/expulsion' PILE-DRIVER 'hit' would have done to all its 'integral' geometry/interconnections.
So Chris, in fact, that extra 'explosive-looking' effect AT THAT LEVEL shows that it was the collapse to that stage that produced it...and not high-explosives. That's how I connect the height/effects with the core remnant height/status information presented by you guys. Ciao!
RC.
.
Okay, I'm certain that I'm just not qualified or experienced in physics enough to really understand some of the more esoteric concepts put forth here.
Can any one properly sequence the math needed to quantify 'UP-rebound/SIDE-expulsion' effects?
Particuarly in regard to the following image.
but the spire has been relieved of any crushing forces from above, so what would cause the remaining core columns to buckle? (which, by the way, i don't see any of. i see a straight spire get whacked on one side by some explosive force, and then begin to tip as a straight spire, and then fall straight down.)
i know RC has a theory about it, but surprisingly, i don't agree that things were moving around much at the base. it is also clear from the debris pile photos that the towers were peeled like a banana at the base. which indicates, forces radiating predominantly outward. obviously, this is also apparent for the (ultra fine) dust cloud.
That peeling effect is from the core exploding and pushing outward on the beams between the interior box columns.
No it's not. It's from falling apart all on it's own..
Okay, you say it falls apart on its own. Why is it going up so much?
Hi Chris, everyone. Isn't that about where the lower half of the core temporarily obstructs the downward collapse of the 'central' part of the debris 'plug' formed by most of the upper core, its inner concrete floor slabs and hat-truss?
If so, that's EXACTLY where I would expect an EXTRA AMOUNT of 'UP-rebound/SIDE-expulsion' effects before the remnant core itself succumbs to the DOUBTLESS damage that such a 'rebound/expulsion' PILE-DRIVER 'hit' would have done to all its 'integral' geometry/interconnections.
So Chris, in fact, that extra 'explosive-looking' effect AT THAT LEVEL shows that it was the collapse to that stage that produced it...and not high-explosives. That's how I connect the height/effects with the core remnant height/status information presented by you guys. Ciao!
RC.
.
Okay, I'm certain that I'm just not qualified or experienced in physics enough to really understand some of the more esoteric concepts put forth here.
Can any one properly sequence the math needed to quantify 'UP-rebound/SIDE-expulsion' effects?
Particuarly in regard to the following image.
QUOTE (newton+Mar 12 2006, 08:00 AM)
QUOTE (RealityCheck+Mar 12 2006, 07:46 AM)
QUOTE (newton+Mar 12 2006, 07:23 AM)
QUOTE (RealityCheck+Mar 12 2006, 07:11 AM)
Hi newt. Makes me wonder just how reliable/factual a witness (not witless) YOU would have made if you had been there under all that stress/angst/panic? I wonder which 'movie script' would have been uppermost in your mind that would have 'coloured/tailored' what YOU saw and heard while trying to ensure you didn't die in the middle of all that was happening?
RC.
.
holy non-sequitor, batman! get the cognitive dissonance repellent!!!!
why? why would that have any relevence at all to the reality of 911, reality check?
what i would do or report is completely moot, as far as i can tell.
but, you're a scientist, so what do i know?
eraserhead.
p.s. i'm not a mechanical recording device like a camera, or a video recorder with audio, or a VCR recording the live news broadcasts. they're not quite as confused by stress as humans, i hear.
Sorry newt, I had to go make some dinner. Back now.
Do you have a particular problem with my wondering what sort of things YOU'D be 'describing' (and in what 'imagey') if YOU had been caught up on the spot in the traumatic events of 9/11? Did I offend you by asking that?
Where's the non sequitur? Were their not 'interpretations' of 'sounds' being discussed? What's upset you so much?
RC.
.
i'm not upset.
it's irrelevent. pure speculation. (i know you're more fond of pure speculation than empirical evidence, but i need a springboard to do any relevent extrapolation)
if i was there, i assume all the bad guys would be in jail by now, due to my impeccable heroic infallibility.
seriously, though. what's your point? i had a cop point a gun at my head once(he was chasing a suspect through a bus station, pointed his gun at the perp(alleged, lol) and the perp whipped around a corner leaving me in the line of fire.
i've been in quite a few life and death scrapes, dude, so i REALLY don't get your point. i drive fast, i've scaled buildings with my bare hands, operated cranes, been chased by a bear, etc. the mind goes into hyper-drive in intense situations and becomes MORE observant.
you know, 'time slowed down' is a common comment from experiencers of intense phenomena?
Wow! What a guy! Pity no-one else could measure up. I bet all those people having two 110 story buildings falling around them will be pissed that they TOO weren't SUPERMAN, heh? What a guy!
Tell me, how much UNEXPECTED 'prior terror' did you have to 'process' before your 'observations'?...you know, from planes coming to visit, exploding and raining burning debris all over everything and stuff like that.....you know, expected/everyday like thousands of people falling and dying while you're running for your life and not knowing if you are running fast enough to make it.
Do you seriously compare a momentary and/or anticipated experience to that day of compounding and mounting terror and chaos and shambles on a scale probaly not experienced by those people ever in their lives before? Seriously, you would carry on as 'superman observer'? Amazing! I'm impressed, really. Pity you WEREN'T on the spot....then we could all know the truth and all this CTer nonsense assertions would, as you say, be unnecessary....because you would have the culprits behind bars in no time. Wow!
RC.
.
RC.
.
holy non-sequitor, batman! get the cognitive dissonance repellent!!!!
why? why would that have any relevence at all to the reality of 911, reality check?
what i would do or report is completely moot, as far as i can tell.
but, you're a scientist, so what do i know?
eraserhead.
p.s. i'm not a mechanical recording device like a camera, or a video recorder with audio, or a VCR recording the live news broadcasts. they're not quite as confused by stress as humans, i hear.
Sorry newt, I had to go make some dinner. Back now.
Do you have a particular problem with my wondering what sort of things YOU'D be 'describing' (and in what 'imagey') if YOU had been caught up on the spot in the traumatic events of 9/11? Did I offend you by asking that?
Where's the non sequitur? Were their not 'interpretations' of 'sounds' being discussed? What's upset you so much?
RC.
.
i'm not upset.
it's irrelevent. pure speculation. (i know you're more fond of pure speculation than empirical evidence, but i need a springboard to do any relevent extrapolation)
if i was there, i assume all the bad guys would be in jail by now, due to my impeccable heroic infallibility.
seriously, though. what's your point? i had a cop point a gun at my head once(he was chasing a suspect through a bus station, pointed his gun at the perp(alleged, lol) and the perp whipped around a corner leaving me in the line of fire.
i've been in quite a few life and death scrapes, dude, so i REALLY don't get your point. i drive fast, i've scaled buildings with my bare hands, operated cranes, been chased by a bear, etc. the mind goes into hyper-drive in intense situations and becomes MORE observant.
you know, 'time slowed down' is a common comment from experiencers of intense phenomena?
Wow! What a guy! Pity no-one else could measure up. I bet all those people having two 110 story buildings falling around them will be pissed that they TOO weren't SUPERMAN, heh? What a guy!
Tell me, how much UNEXPECTED 'prior terror' did you have to 'process' before your 'observations'?...you know, from planes coming to visit, exploding and raining burning debris all over everything and stuff like that.....you know, expected/everyday like thousands of people falling and dying while you're running for your life and not knowing if you are running fast enough to make it.
Do you seriously compare a momentary and/or anticipated experience to that day of compounding and mounting terror and chaos and shambles on a scale probaly not experienced by those people ever in their lives before? Seriously, you would carry on as 'superman observer'? Amazing! I'm impressed, really. Pity you WEREN'T on the spot....then we could all know the truth and all this CTer nonsense assertions would, as you say, be unnecessary....because you would have the culprits behind bars in no time. Wow!
RC.
.
QUOTE (RealityCheck+Mar 12 2006, 08:17 AM)
Pity you WEREN'T on the spot....then we could all know the truth and all this CTer nonsense assertions would, as you say, be unnecessary....because you would have the culprits behind bars in no time. Wow!
RC.
.
yeah. pity.
oh, well. cape was at the cleaners. what can i say.
once again, cameras and recorders are not subject to the kind of bias you're implying has some kind of relevance.
the shocked and confused empirical evidence matches what the numerous, all wrong, all saying the same thing(the thing that matches the empirical evidence, you know?) witnesses said.
ie. BOOOOOOM
it's a good thing 'private dicks' like you and conman sense are helping clear things up.
RC.
.
yeah. pity.
oh, well. cape was at the cleaners. what can i say.
once again, cameras and recorders are not subject to the kind of bias you're implying has some kind of relevance.
the shocked and confused empirical evidence matches what the numerous, all wrong, all saying the same thing(the thing that matches the empirical evidence, you know?) witnesses said.
ie. BOOOOOOM
it's a good thing 'private dicks' like you and conman sense are helping clear things up.
QUOTE (newton+Mar 12 2006, 08:28 AM)
QUOTE (RealityCheck+Mar 12 2006, 08:17 AM)
Pity you WEREN'T on the spot....then we could all know the truth and all this CTer nonsense assertions would, as you say, be unnecessary....because you would have the culprits behind bars in no time. Wow!
RC.
.
yeah. pity.
oh, well. cape was at the cleaners. what can i say.
once again, cameras and recorders are not subject to the kind of bias you're implying has some kind of relevance.
the shocked and confused empirical evidence matches what the numerous, all wrong, all saying the same thing(the thing that matches the empirical evidence, you know?) witnesses said.
ie. BOOOOOOM
it's a good thing 'private dicks' like you and conman sense are helping clear things up.
BOOOOOOM. Hmmmm sounds like something that a 110 story building would 'say' for the camera/sound recorder. Are you sure you weren't there? Because your 'description' of that building collapse sounds so uncannily lifelike (or should that be 'deathlike'?).
Anyway, that's all the evidence we need, right? That sound BOOOOOOM says it all, heh? BOOOOOOOM: Planes hit. BOOOOOOM: Planes explode. BOOOOOM: top of building hits bottom half. BOOOOOOM: 2x110 stories of steel and concrete hit the ground.
Amazing! Let's wrap it up folks; nothing more to see here! move along, move along. (sorry, just couldn't resist using Foxx's favourite line/motif at least once in my life, hehehe). Cheers!
RC.
.
Yep... these are typical occurrances every time a building collapses...
Cars turned upside down... must been the wind squishing out of those pancaking floors...
http://oceanmirage.homestead.com/files/aftermath01.jpg
and Melted Buses for sure ! Always happens when those cool dust clouds squished out by pancaking floors pass by...
http://oceanmirage.homestead.com/files/Terrorist17.jpg
http://oceanmirage.homestead.com/files/Terrorist18.jpg
YOU, mr. scientist are a joke.
foxx. i'm sorry to say it, but you obviously weren't listening when reality check PERFECTLY DESCRIBED the whole scenario(he's a scientist, and doesn't need to do 'research' like us peons and phd.s).
you see, it was the GREEN LEAVES that caused those tires and all the glass of those vehicles to disappear(and LOOTERS! damn new yorkers!)
i for one, am really glad to have a little conman sense and a good reality check(think hockey) around this TOO CHAOTIC TO EVER UNDERSTAND world.
Amidst all the banter, one wonders, what the hell would make a bus melt like that?
I have read a few reports of cars spontaneously combusting just before the collapses...
And nobody seems to have any explanation other than that the cars were hit by burning debris... but witness have reported cars exploding... which is quite distinct from, say, being hit with a pice of burning debris.
What makes cars explode???? I am at a loss to explain this.
(: hereward
So by your estimation the Fire crew took longer to go DOWN 6 stories as it took to CLIMB 78 stories???
BOY, them NYFD are one bunch of MORONS.
So by your estimation the Fire crew took longer to go DOWN 6 stories as it took to CLIMB 78 stories???
BOY, them NYFD are one bunch of MORONS.
You seem to be missing the point. If the floors pulled the columns in, how is it that those two corners and possibly more, remain standing up to six seconds after collapse. How did the spandrel plates become disconnected? Why just these corner sections remaining? How is it that large sections of the walls are falling outwards? Why are the first expulsions on the corners with subsequent expulsions staggered inwards as collapse progresses?How did the upper section of core become disconnected?
Gordon.
Gordon,
THERE ARE NO OUTSIDE CORNER COLUMNS.
The corners we are talking about are the MASSIVE CORNER COLUMNS of the CORE.
The 4 Corner Columns of the Core carried 20% of the Core's load.
Gordon CONTINUES with his meltdown.
Sad really,
Of the CLOWNS, at least he showed SOME promise of lucidity.
Pity.
Arthur
I POST A PICTURE OF THIS TREE
Arthur
Metamars comes back with THIS question:
Can you place this tree on a steet map?
Metamars,
LOOK A LITTLE PAST THE TREE, PAST THE WORK LIGHT THEY HAVE SET UP TO SHINE ON THE SITE.
See the SMOLDERING PILE???
LOOK A LITTLE PAST THAT.
WHAT DO YOU SEE STICKING UP????
Does THIS help you place the tree?
Not sure how it could have BEEN any closer.
Arthur
You're still not answering my questions. Note well that the tree seems to be completely undamaged. Seems rather unlikely that the tree would be apparently so close to the fallen debris, with no visible damage.
I POST A PICTURE OF THIS TREE
Arthur
Metamars comes back with THIS question:
Can you place this tree on a steet map?
Metamars,
LOOK A LITTLE PAST THE TREE, PAST THE WORK LIGHT THEY HAVE SET UP TO SHINE ON THE SITE.
See the SMOLDERING PILE???
LOOK A LITTLE PAST THAT.
WHAT DO YOU SEE STICKING UP????
Does THIS help you place the tree?
Not sure how it could have BEEN any closer.
Arthur
You're still not answering my questions. Note well that the tree seems to be completely undamaged. Seems rather unlikely that the tree would be apparently so close to the fallen debris, with no visible damage.
Why, if something doesn't LAND on it, what do you think was going to HURT IT since the tree is obvious proof (as if we needed any more) that there was NO PYROCLASTIC CLOUD.
NOT EVEN A 100 C one, let alone the 1,000 K one that Hoffman postulates.
More trees:
Notice window boxes and street planters (so we are not just talking about GROUND temps either)
If these were any closer you would have to first lift the debris off them.
Notice how GREEN some of these look, so it must not be specie specific.
NEED MORE???
Or do you consider THESE fake as well???
Arthur
RC.
.
yeah. pity.
oh, well. cape was at the cleaners. what can i say.
once again, cameras and recorders are not subject to the kind of bias you're implying has some kind of relevance.
the shocked and confused empirical evidence matches what the numerous, all wrong, all saying the same thing(the thing that matches the empirical evidence, you know?) witnesses said.
ie. BOOOOOOM
it's a good thing 'private dicks' like you and conman sense are helping clear things up.
BOOOOOOM. Hmmmm sounds like something that a 110 story building would 'say' for the camera/sound recorder. Are you sure you weren't there? Because your 'description' of that building collapse sounds so uncannily lifelike (or should that be 'deathlike'?).
Anyway, that's all the evidence we need, right? That sound BOOOOOOM says it all, heh? BOOOOOOOM: Planes hit. BOOOOOOM: Planes explode. BOOOOOM: top of building hits bottom half. BOOOOOOM: 2x110 stories of steel and concrete hit the ground.
Amazing! Let's wrap it up folks; nothing more to see here! move along, move along. (sorry, just couldn't resist using Foxx's favourite line/motif at least once in my life, hehehe). Cheers!
RC.
.
A revision to the BIGGEST COLLECTION OF IDIOTS EVER ON ONE THREAD.
It obviously requires TWO large Mini-buses to hold these clowns:
Whereas the annual general meeting of everybody who thinks you talk sense can be accomodated in a phone box.
Gordon
It obviously requires TWO large Mini-buses to hold these clowns:
Whereas the annual general meeting of everybody who thinks you talk sense can be accomodated in a phone box.
Gordon
QUOTE (newton+Mar 12 2006, 05:51 AM)
QUOTE (Foxx+Mar 12 2006, 05:45 AM)
QUOTE
by the objective scientist
...bearing on the physics as presented, I tend to ignore unless pertinent in some direct way to the observed physical phenomena.
...bearing on the physics as presented, I tend to ignore unless pertinent in some direct way to the observed physical phenomena.
Yep... these are typical occurrances every time a building collapses...
Cars turned upside down... must been the wind squishing out of those pancaking floors...
http://oceanmirage.homestead.com/files/aftermath01.jpg
and Melted Buses for sure ! Always happens when those cool dust clouds squished out by pancaking floors pass by...
http://oceanmirage.homestead.com/files/Terrorist17.jpg
http://oceanmirage.homestead.com/files/Terrorist18.jpg
YOU, mr. scientist are a joke.
foxx. i'm sorry to say it, but you obviously weren't listening when reality check PERFECTLY DESCRIBED the whole scenario(he's a scientist, and doesn't need to do 'research' like us peons and phd.s).
you see, it was the GREEN LEAVES that caused those tires and all the glass of those vehicles to disappear(and LOOTERS! damn new yorkers!)
i for one, am really glad to have a little conman sense and a good reality check(think hockey) around this TOO CHAOTIC TO EVER UNDERSTAND world.
Amidst all the banter, one wonders, what the hell would make a bus melt like that?
I have read a few reports of cars spontaneously combusting just before the collapses...
And nobody seems to have any explanation other than that the cars were hit by burning debris... but witness have reported cars exploding... which is quite distinct from, say, being hit with a pice of burning debris.
What makes cars explode???? I am at a loss to explain this.
(: hereward
FIRE PATROLMAN PAUL CURRAN
At that time I went back to the north tower again, and they were stretching a line. A lot of car fires erupted. All of a sudden cars were blowing up everywhere.
I went back and I helped a guy stretch a line. The guy was all by himself. I helped him stretch a line and started putting water on the car fires. I remember distinctly walking past 118 Truck. 118 Truck was parked right on West Street north of Vesey
*********************************************
EMT FREDDY BURGOS
When the first building came down, after the dust lifted from that one, in front of me, the other ambulances, most of them not Fire Department, private or some other ambulances, burning.
FIREFIGHTER RICHARD CARLETTI
Basically they wanted engines was booster tanks to come down and extinguish the car fires then going.
FIREFIGHTER RONALD CIFU
Even after the collapse when we were starting to relay water to the car fires.
many of the firemen reported this. Lots of the cars and fire engines and ambulances parked along West HW and Vesey and Liberty exploded.
www.nytimes.com/pages/nyr...onspecial3 /
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
EMT PATRICIA ONDROVIC File No. 9 1 10048
graphics8.nytimes.com/pac...110048.PDF
En route to the alarm, I saw the two towers burning. We parked in the middle of Vesey Street between West and the West Side Highway. My partner and I grabbed our stretcher, went to put it in the back of our vehicle, and at that time, I think it was the lobby of the building behind us blew out.
Everybody started running, I didn't see him again that day. He got thrown one way, I got thrown the other way. Stuffs blowing up. So I ran back out and I started running west again on Vesey. At that point, there was a car on the corner of the West Side Highway.
As I was running up Vesey, the first car blew up on me on the corner of Vessey and the West Side Highway. That set my turnout coat on fire, that set my hair on fire. I kept running. I ended up running through this park, and I couldn't even see where I was running anymore. I kept running North through North Park. As I was running up here, two or three more cars exploded on me. They weren't near any buildings at that point, they were just parked on the street. Stuff is still blowing up behind me, as I'm running. I can hear stuff exploding. I could hear rumbling, the street under me was moving like I was in an earthquake. (this was obviously when WTC2 fell). I've been in those, so I know what they feel like. It felt like an earthquake. There was no where safe to go. As I was running north in this park, and then I could start seeing again a little bit, and I just kept looking in the sky.
And firemen's fireproof coats-like this ladies and socks caught fire.
RONALD COYNE EMT WTC2
MY SAFETY COAT WAS ALREADY ON FIRE. MY SOCKS WERE ON FIRE
I was just covered with burns and bruises and I could hardly breathe.
img.photobucket.com/album...rist41.jpg
img.photobucket.com/album...rist19.jpg
img.photobucket.com/album...age012.jpg
img.photobucket.com/album...rist17.jpg
At that time I went back to the north tower again, and they were stretching a line. A lot of car fires erupted. All of a sudden cars were blowing up everywhere.
I went back and I helped a guy stretch a line. The guy was all by himself. I helped him stretch a line and started putting water on the car fires. I remember distinctly walking past 118 Truck. 118 Truck was parked right on West Street north of Vesey
*********************************************
EMT FREDDY BURGOS
When the first building came down, after the dust lifted from that one, in front of me, the other ambulances, most of them not Fire Department, private or some other ambulances, burning.
FIREFIGHTER RICHARD CARLETTI
Basically they wanted engines was booster tanks to come down and extinguish the car fires then going.
FIREFIGHTER RONALD CIFU
Even after the collapse when we were starting to relay water to the car fires.
many of the firemen reported this. Lots of the cars and fire engines and ambulances parked along West HW and Vesey and Liberty exploded.
www.nytimes.com/pages/nyr...onspecial3 /
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
EMT PATRICIA ONDROVIC File No. 9 1 10048
graphics8.nytimes.com/pac...110048.PDF
En route to the alarm, I saw the two towers burning. We parked in the middle of Vesey Street between West and the West Side Highway. My partner and I grabbed our stretcher, went to put it in the back of our vehicle, and at that time, I think it was the lobby of the building behind us blew out.
Everybody started running, I didn't see him again that day. He got thrown one way, I got thrown the other way. Stuffs blowing up. So I ran back out and I started running west again on Vesey. At that point, there was a car on the corner of the West Side Highway.
As I was running up Vesey, the first car blew up on me on the corner of Vessey and the West Side Highway. That set my turnout coat on fire, that set my hair on fire. I kept running. I ended up running through this park, and I couldn't even see where I was running anymore. I kept running North through North Park. As I was running up here, two or three more cars exploded on me. They weren't near any buildings at that point, they were just parked on the street. Stuff is still blowing up behind me, as I'm running. I can hear stuff exploding. I could hear rumbling, the street under me was moving like I was in an earthquake. (this was obviously when WTC2 fell). I've been in those, so I know what they feel like. It felt like an earthquake. There was no where safe to go. As I was running north in this park, and then I could start seeing again a little bit, and I just kept looking in the sky.
And firemen's fireproof coats-like this ladies and socks caught fire.
RONALD COYNE EMT WTC2
MY SAFETY COAT WAS ALREADY ON FIRE. MY SOCKS WERE ON FIRE
I was just covered with burns and bruises and I could hardly breathe.
img.photobucket.com/album...rist41.jpg
img.photobucket.com/album...rist19.jpg
img.photobucket.com/album...age012.jpg
img.photobucket.com/album...rist17.jpg
QUOTE (newton+Mar 12 2006, 07:12 AM)
i'll spell this out one more time.
a 'shill' is TOOL of a 'grifter'. the grifter is behind the scam, and 'he' is the benefactor of the 'grift/scam'.
a 'shill' can be a willing, complicit TOOL, or an unwilling TOOL whose views JUST HAPPEN to help the 'grifter' with his 'grift'.
k?
It is VERY clear who the SHILLS are and what they are about
$$$$$$
The New World Order Exposed, by Victor Thorn, Sisyphus Press, 565 pages. This mammoth book tries to show how 9-11 was one piece in a large puzzle, the big picture being the attempt by the tiny global elite to control the world…
Pentagate by Thierry Meyssan, is the second book by a French author whose photographs, posted on the internet, questioning whether a Boeing hit the Pentagon stunned the world.
Alice in Wonderland and the World Trade Center Disaster- Why the official story of 9/11 is a monumental lie by David Icke He has a huge website and has written many books and lectured all over about “the ruling class,” who has sought to control humanity for thousands of years.
" '9/11' " facing our fascist state & what a plot!, by Don Paul is a very easy read (he doesn’t bother with footnotes) which includes everything Don believes to be true (even if their isn’t any evidence beyond an online article…)
All Fall Down: The Politics of Terror and Mass Persuasion by William Thomas is a useful overview and analysis, but the book isn’t easy to get- you have to order it from his website or send the author a check or money order
The War on Freedom- The 9-11 Conspiracies by Jim Marrs. Jim has written extensively on “conspiracies” and throws in some weird stuff which invites the reader to dismiss the entire book. At times he distances himself and says some people allege that “blah, blah, blah…”
War and Globalization- The Truth Behind September 11th, by Michel Chossudovsky Also a Website and magazine, Global Outlook
a 'shill' is TOOL of a 'grifter'. the grifter is behind the scam, and 'he' is the benefactor of the 'grift/scam'.
a 'shill' can be a willing, complicit TOOL, or an unwilling TOOL whose views JUST HAPPEN to help the 'grifter' with his 'grift'.
k?
It is VERY clear who the SHILLS are and what they are about
$$$$$$
The New World Order Exposed, by Victor Thorn, Sisyphus Press, 565 pages. This mammoth book tries to show how 9-11 was one piece in a large puzzle, the big picture being the attempt by the tiny global elite to control the world…
Pentagate by Thierry Meyssan, is the second book by a French author whose photographs, posted on the internet, questioning whether a Boeing hit the Pentagon stunned the world.
Alice in Wonderland and the World Trade Center Disaster- Why the official story of 9/11 is a monumental lie by David Icke He has a huge website and has written many books and lectured all over about “the ruling class,” who has sought to control humanity for thousands of years.
" '9/11' " facing our fascist state & what a plot!, by Don Paul is a very easy read (he doesn’t bother with footnotes) which includes everything Don believes to be true (even if their isn’t any evidence beyond an online article…)
All Fall Down: The Politics of Terror and Mass Persuasion by William Thomas is a useful overview and analysis, but the book isn’t easy to get- you have to order it from his website or send the author a check or money order
The War on Freedom- The 9-11 Conspiracies by Jim Marrs. Jim has written extensively on “conspiracies” and throws in some weird stuff which invites the reader to dismiss the entire book. At times he distances himself and says some people allege that “blah, blah, blah…”
War and Globalization- The Truth Behind September 11th, by Michel Chossudovsky Also a Website and magazine, Global Outlook
QUOTE (hereward+Mar 12 2006, 08:50 AM)
And nobody seems to have any explanation other than that the cars were hit by burning debris... but witness have reported cars exploding... which is quite distinct from, say, being hit with a pice of burning debris.
What makes cars explode???? I am at a loss to explain this.
(: hereward
What makes cars explode?
Duh
Its called a GAS TANK.
But the fact is, virtually all the pictures are simply burned out vehicles.
They are burned out because there was almost no attempt made to put out the fires.
Because the people who could were:
A) Dead
B ) had no equipment
C) had equipment but no water pressure
D) worried about more important things, like finding their friends or finding fresh air
Arthur
What makes cars explode???? I am at a loss to explain this.
(: hereward
What makes cars explode?
Duh
Its called a GAS TANK.
But the fact is, virtually all the pictures are simply burned out vehicles.
They are burned out because there was almost no attempt made to put out the fires.
Because the people who could were:
A) Dead
B ) had no equipment
C) had equipment but no water pressure
D) worried about more important things, like finding their friends or finding fresh air
Arthur
QUOTE
In the second collapse the core was not visible as it was after the first. This indicates that the core failure initiated at the base by the relatively slower acting thermite like charge was not as far advanced in the first collapse as it was in the second.So what could have caused the perpetrators to decide that it was necessary to set off the charges early on this tower? A question that I believe was being asked recently, but one with a very obvious but uncomfortable reply. Fire crew had just arrived on the first fire floor and were in direct radio contact.
Gordon.
Gordon.
So by your estimation the Fire crew took longer to go DOWN 6 stories as it took to CLIMB 78 stories???
BOY, them NYFD are one bunch of MORONS.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| In the second collapse the core was not visible as it was after the first. This indicates that the core failure initiated at the base by the relatively slower acting thermite like charge was not as far advanced in the first collapse as it was in the second.So what could have caused the perpetrators to decide that it was necessary to set off the charges early on this tower? A question that I believe was being asked recently, but one with a very obvious but uncomfortable reply. Fire crew had just arrived on the first fire floor and were in direct radio contact. Gordon. |
So by your estimation the Fire crew took longer to go DOWN 6 stories as it took to CLIMB 78 stories???
BOY, them NYFD are one bunch of MORONS.
You seem to be missing the point. If the floors pulled the columns in, how is it that those two corners and possibly more, remain standing up to six seconds after collapse. How did the spandrel plates become disconnected? Why just these corner sections remaining? How is it that large sections of the walls are falling outwards? Why are the first expulsions on the corners with subsequent expulsions staggered inwards as collapse progresses?How did the upper section of core become disconnected?
Gordon.
Gordon,
THERE ARE NO OUTSIDE CORNER COLUMNS.
The corners we are talking about are the MASSIVE CORNER COLUMNS of the CORE.
The 4 Corner Columns of the Core carried 20% of the Core's load.
Gordon CONTINUES with his meltdown.
Sad really,
Of the CLOWNS, at least he showed SOME promise of lucidity.
Pity.
Arthur
QUOTE (adoucette+Mar 12 2006, 06:47 AM)
QUOTE (metamars+Mar 11 2006, 09:30 PM)
QUOTE (Adoucette+)
I POST A PICTURE OF THIS TREE
Arthur
Metamars comes back with THIS question:
Can you place this tree on a steet map?
Metamars,
LOOK A LITTLE PAST THE TREE, PAST THE WORK LIGHT THEY HAVE SET UP TO SHINE ON THE SITE.
See the SMOLDERING PILE???
LOOK A LITTLE PAST THAT.
WHAT DO YOU SEE STICKING UP????
Does THIS help you place the tree?
Not sure how it could have BEEN any closer.
Arthur
You're still not answering my questions. Note well that the tree seems to be completely undamaged. Seems rather unlikely that the tree would be apparently so close to the fallen debris, with no visible damage.
http://killtown.blogspot.com/
KT: You talked about the cars blowing up in your WTC Task Force interview, correct?
PO: Yes.
KT: Can you estimate how many vehicles blew up around you?
PO: At least three and some were on fire as I was running by. I was still on the south side of Vesey running west. The burning cars were between my ambulance and about the middle of the 6 World Trade where the lobby doors were at.
KT: Where you running on the street, or up the sidewalk?
PO: Up the sidewalk.
KT: When these vehicles blew up, was it kind of like what you would see in the movies where the vehicle pops up in the air when it explodes with a fireball coming out?
PO: I remember parts flying off -- I think I got hit with a car door. I remember they were also on fire, but I don't specifically recall the movie type fireball, but there was a loud bang as the door flew off the one car I was running past.
KT: Do you have any idea what was causing these vehicles to catch on fire and/or explode? Was the air temperature really hot as you were running by these cars?
PO: I don't know what was causing them to blow up. I didn't know at the time that I was trying to outrun a skyscraper falling on me, but after I found out what I ran from. I figured it was the impact of the building falling and residual effect. I am not an engineer, so I can only guess at a probable cause. I don't remember feeling any extreme heat.
KT: Could you tell if the vehicles blowing up on the street were only parked next to the WTC 6?
PO: I was only paying attention to my immediate surroundings, if there were any vehicles not near me blowing up, I wasn't aware of them, just the ones closest to me.
KT: What type of vehicles were they (cars, SUVs, trucks -- civilian, non-civilian) that were on fire or had blown up?
PO: They were unmarked cars, most likely privately owned. I didn't see any SUVs, trucks or any "official" vehicles on fire.
KT: Were these cars all parked next to each other?
PO: They were parallel parked. There was no discernable order to what was on fire. It was all very chaotic.
KT: You talked about the cars blowing up in your WTC Task Force interview, correct?
PO: Yes.
KT: Can you estimate how many vehicles blew up around you?
PO: At least three and some were on fire as I was running by. I was still on the south side of Vesey running west. The burning cars were between my ambulance and about the middle of the 6 World Trade where the lobby doors were at.
KT: Where you running on the street, or up the sidewalk?
PO: Up the sidewalk.
KT: When these vehicles blew up, was it kind of like what you would see in the movies where the vehicle pops up in the air when it explodes with a fireball coming out?
PO: I remember parts flying off -- I think I got hit with a car door. I remember they were also on fire, but I don't specifically recall the movie type fireball, but there was a loud bang as the door flew off the one car I was running past.
KT: Do you have any idea what was causing these vehicles to catch on fire and/or explode? Was the air temperature really hot as you were running by these cars?
PO: I don't know what was causing them to blow up. I didn't know at the time that I was trying to outrun a skyscraper falling on me, but after I found out what I ran from. I figured it was the impact of the building falling and residual effect. I am not an engineer, so I can only guess at a probable cause. I don't remember feeling any extreme heat.
KT: Could you tell if the vehicles blowing up on the street were only parked next to the WTC 6?
PO: I was only paying attention to my immediate surroundings, if there were any vehicles not near me blowing up, I wasn't aware of them, just the ones closest to me.
KT: What type of vehicles were they (cars, SUVs, trucks -- civilian, non-civilian) that were on fire or had blown up?
PO: They were unmarked cars, most likely privately owned. I didn't see any SUVs, trucks or any "official" vehicles on fire.
KT: Were these cars all parked next to each other?
PO: They were parallel parked. There was no discernable order to what was on fire. It was all very chaotic.
What they LEFT OUT of that blogspot (wonder why?)
As I was running north in this park, and then I could start seeing again a little bit, and I just kept looking in the sky. Cause the captain was saying there's another plane heading in our direction, I was looking for another plane. I saw something in the sky, it was a plane, but it was way out. It looked like it was over Jersey or something, then it wasn't there anymore. I saw a small fireball, and it was gone. I saw two other planes. One came in one way, and the other came in the other way, and there was a plane in the middle that was way far off in the distance. Then the plane in the middle just disappeared into a little fire ball. It looked like the size of a golf ball from where I could see it. And the other two planes veered off into opposite directions. I just kept on running north. About fifteen blocks later, I had no idea that that was just the first tower that had come down. I had no idea at that time that that's what that was, and the other buildings were being affected, of course, by that building falling.
he tells us to take the vehicle, put me and Charles in the back of the vehicle and go
three blocks south. Charles told him, are you out of your mind? We're not safe where we are, let alone three blocks south. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, I know. Get in the ambulance and go three blocks south. At that point I got really upset. I said, do you realize they just blew up our triage sector? Everybody back there is dead, everybody back there is gone. There is no reason for us to go back there, we don't have the proper protective equipment, we don't have the proper vehicles. There's no way I'm going back there, there's no reason to go back. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, don't be hysterical, just go back three blocks south. I'm not going three blocks south, he's not going three blocks south, this ambulance is not going three blocks south. Sean started telling him we're not safe where we are now, and we were fifteen blocks away. It was certainly not safe there.
He was the whole time saying.. .cause at that point I was screaming at him, cause he wasn't in there. We were telling him what we saw, and he just wouldn't listen. Yeah, yeah, I know. I hadn't realized that the first tower had fallen.
Arthur
As I was running north in this park, and then I could start seeing again a little bit, and I just kept looking in the sky. Cause the captain was saying there's another plane heading in our direction, I was looking for another plane. I saw something in the sky, it was a plane, but it was way out. It looked like it was over Jersey or something, then it wasn't there anymore. I saw a small fireball, and it was gone. I saw two other planes. One came in one way, and the other came in the other way, and there was a plane in the middle that was way far off in the distance. Then the plane in the middle just disappeared into a little fire ball. It looked like the size of a golf ball from where I could see it. And the other two planes veered off into opposite directions. I just kept on running north. About fifteen blocks later, I had no idea that that was just the first tower that had come down. I had no idea at that time that that's what that was, and the other buildings were being affected, of course, by that building falling.
he tells us to take the vehicle, put me and Charles in the back of the vehicle and go
three blocks south. Charles told him, are you out of your mind? We're not safe where we are, let alone three blocks south. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, I know. Get in the ambulance and go three blocks south. At that point I got really upset. I said, do you realize they just blew up our triage sector? Everybody back there is dead, everybody back there is gone. There is no reason for us to go back there, we don't have the proper protective equipment, we don't have the proper vehicles. There's no way I'm going back there, there's no reason to go back. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, don't be hysterical, just go back three blocks south. I'm not going three blocks south, he's not going three blocks south, this ambulance is not going three blocks south. Sean started telling him we're not safe where we are now, and we were fifteen blocks away. It was certainly not safe there.
He was the whole time saying.. .cause at that point I was screaming at him, cause he wasn't in there. We were telling him what we saw, and he just wouldn't listen. Yeah, yeah, I know. I hadn't realized that the first tower had fallen.
Arthur
QUOTE (metamars+Mar 12 2006, 10:22 AM)
QUOTE (adoucette+Mar 12 2006, 06:47 AM)
QUOTE (metamars+Mar 11 2006, 09:30 PM)
QUOTE (Adoucette+)
I POST A PICTURE OF THIS TREE
Arthur
Metamars comes back with THIS question:
Can you place this tree on a steet map?
Metamars,
LOOK A LITTLE PAST THE TREE, PAST THE WORK LIGHT THEY HAVE SET UP TO SHINE ON THE SITE.
See the SMOLDERING PILE???
LOOK A LITTLE PAST THAT.
WHAT DO YOU SEE STICKING UP????
Does THIS help you place the tree?
Not sure how it could have BEEN any closer.
Arthur
You're still not answering my questions. Note well that the tree seems to be completely undamaged. Seems rather unlikely that the tree would be apparently so close to the fallen debris, with no visible damage.
Why, if something doesn't LAND on it, what do you think was going to HURT IT since the tree is obvious proof (as if we needed any more) that there was NO PYROCLASTIC CLOUD.
NOT EVEN A 100 C one, let alone the 1,000 K one that Hoffman postulates.
More trees:
Notice window boxes and street planters (so we are not just talking about GROUND temps either)
If these were any closer you would have to first lift the debris off them.
Notice how GREEN some of these look, so it must not be specie specific.
NEED MORE???
Or do you consider THESE fake as well???
Arthur
QUOTE (hereward+Mar 12 2006, 08:50 AM)
Amidst all the banter, one wonders, what the hell would make a bus melt like that?
I have read a few reports of cars spontaneously combusting just before the collapses...
And nobody seems to have any explanation other than that the cars were hit by burning debris... but witness have reported cars exploding... which is quite distinct from, say, being hit with a pice of burning debris.
What makes cars explode???? I am at a loss to explain this.
(: hereward
What????
Remember this from the Rita evac in Texas?
They believed it started in the brakes.
Arthur
I have read a few reports of cars spontaneously combusting just before the collapses...
And nobody seems to have any explanation other than that the cars were hit by burning debris... but witness have reported cars exploding... which is quite distinct from, say, being hit with a pice of burning debris.
What makes cars explode???? I am at a loss to explain this.
(: hereward
What????
Remember this from the Rita evac in Texas?
They believed it started in the brakes.
Arthur
Slick Gordy:
By the way. Your theory falls down on one basic observation. The core failed first, evidenced by the early movement of the antennae. There is no way for your theory to hold up with this factor.
Gordon
Well, apparently you were wrong.
"Photographic and videographic records were reviewed to identify structurally-related events. Where possible, all four faces of a building were examined for a given event or time period to provide complete understanding of the building response. Observations from a single vantage point can be misleading and may result in incorrect interpretation of events. For instance, photographic and videographic records taken from due north of the WTC 1 collapse appeared to indicate that the antenna was sinking into the roof (McAllister 2002). When records from east and west vantage points were viewed, it was apparent that the building section above the impact area tilted to the south as the building collapsed."
Was MOVE DOWNWARD ==> becomes == CAN TILT.
WEASEL
Arthur
STEEL STEEL STEEL STEEL, MY GOD PEOPLE, MINIMAL TO THE ENTIRE EVENT WAS THE gd STEEL! MORESO WAS THE 6 FLOOR HOLE IN THE STRUCTURE, THAT HAD NO CORE, WAS BLOWN UP FROM INSIDE, AND THE ONLY LINKS HOLDING IT ALL TOGETHER WERE GONE, THE TRUSSES. THE HEAT ONLY NEEDED TO BE HOT ENOUGH TO CHANGE TEMPER, AND NOT OF THE STEEL, BUT OF THE BOLTS HOLDING THE STRUCTURE TOGETHER, AS THERE WERE NO RIVOTS OR WELDS, NOR MASONRY, NOR NOTHING ELSE. THE SIGNIFICANCE TO THE DEVISTATING HEAT NOT TEMPRETURE WAS ALL THAT WAS NEEDED TO HAVE THE FEW REMAINING COMPONENTS TO FAIL. THE PLANE WENT THROUGH THE BUILDING, AND IF IT DID, THEN THE CORE WAS GONE! 3 FLOORS AND 3 FLOORS DOWN THE TRUSSES THAT HELD THE OUTER TO THE INNER WERE GONE! THE EXPOLOSION THAT WAS EQUILIVANT TO 5 TONS OF TNT BLASTED ALL THE INNER COMPONENTS ON ALL SIDES. ON THE NORTH TOWER WE HAVE ON THE OUTER HOLLOW TUBE STEEL SKIN ONE GIANT HOLE ON THE ENTRY AND ONE EXIT EFFECTING MULTIPLE FLOORS, WE HAVE ON ANOTHER A WING THAT SLICED IT ALL THE WAY ACROSS, ABD ANOTHER INCLUDING ALL THAT HAD THAT BLAST. WITH THE CORE GONE, THERE WAS NOTHING INSIDE THE STRUCTURE TO KEEP IT FROM FALLING, AND THE OUTER SKIN HAD VERY LITTLE EITHER, AND IT WAS NOT A DIRECT LOAD BEARING SYSTEM WITHOUT BEING HOOKED TO THE CORE. SO WE HAVE THE CORNER ATTACH BRACKETTING BASICALLY HOLDING UP THE TOP PORTION FROM THE 70 FRRT TO THE BOTTOM. THE FIRES HEAT CHANGED THE TEMPER OF THE CONNECTING BOLTS, AND THEY GOT SOFT TO WHERE THE WEIGHT SHAEARED THROUGH THEM, AND IT FELL. wHY THIS CONTINUING DIATRIBE ONLY ABOUT THE STUPID TEMP ON STEEL, YOU ALL ARE SUPPOSED TO BE DOING PHYSICS HERE, BUT ON ALL ASPECTS OF EVENT, NOT JUST ONE THAT BRINGS IT EASY TO COME TO YOUR CONVOLUTING OUTCOMES. gO AND GET ALL THE FACTORS, AND ALL THE EVENTS OF JEULES, AND POUNDS FEET, AND IMPACT AND EXPLOSIVE RATIOS, APPLY ALL NECESSARY SCIENCE AND ACTIONS. TO PLACE THIS REPEATING IDEA TO JET FUEL ON STEEL IS AN ASSNINE APPROACH, AND IN GUIDED BY AGENDA, AND NOT SCIENCE!
---------------------------------------Except that debris is explained away easily by a build up of pressure from falling floors within the building. The evidence is the slow start to these ejections which progress. The evidence is you never produced an explosive which can cut structural steel yet explodes backward to explain this.
---------------------------------------Except that debris is explained away easily by a build up of pressure from falling floors within the building. The evidence is the slow start to these ejections which progress. The evidence is you never produced an explosive which can cut structural steel yet explodes backward to explain this.
and nearly frictionless collapses of three steel frame buildings, two of which were award winning 'engineering marvels' when they were built,
------------------------------------------Except that the videos do show a collapse with lots of friction which slowed the floors down. Except that CT videos produced by 22 year old media enthusiast stop the fall timer at the time the perimeter columns hit the ground instead of the building. A clear indication the whole CT argument needs lies to support it.
-------------------------------------------Except that there are a number of ways this metal could have become that hot. Including the event itself creating enough heat and insulation to sustain this effect, pockets large enough to keep cars under the towers untouched by debris.
-------------------------------------------Except that there are a number of ways this metal could have become that hot. Including the event itself creating enough heat and insulation to sustain this effect, pockets large enough to keep cars under the towers untouched by debris.
, and pyroclastic flows and burned and flipped cars
------------------------------------------Except the no 212 degree F pyroclastic flow burns cars yet leave people and trees alone. And no explosion HOPS over cars to flip others.
------------------------------------------Exept that you would expect a 110 story office building collapse to pulverize it's 2-3 inch concrete floors in what can only be discribed as the mother of all jack hammer effects. You would expect everything else in the building to sucome to the effect.
------------------------------------------Exept that you would expect a 110 story office building collapse to pulverize it's 2-3 inch concrete floors in what can only be discribed as the mother of all jack hammer effects. You would expect everything else in the building to sucome to the effect.
-----------------------i TRIED to arrest him, but the entire military and legal might of the USA stopped me(by the way, he's YOUR boy, not mine, i'm not 'letting him get away' with anything, common clod)
-------------------------------------------u r creating a laughable conspiracy theory which will be tied together with the real conspiracies which followed 9/11 in a neat little bow. That makes him you're buddy, not mine. Especially since I'm not the one who thinks the thousands of americans who would have to be involved in this mass murder love the idiot so much they would go to jail for him. YOU are, k? You think hes Jesus Christ, k? numbskull newt?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------right now stopping people like you from letting Bush get away with murder. Soon I'll be working to get democrats in power so they can investigate Bush's real crimes. The ones the republicans said they would investigate but never have. People like you who work for Rove (Know it or not) are making that effort difficult.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------right now stopping people like you from letting Bush get away with murder. Soon I'll be working to get democrats in power so they can investigate Bush's real crimes. The ones the republicans said they would investigate but never have. People like you who work for Rove (Know it or not) are making that effort difficult.
------------------------------------that means a lot coming from you. i'll rethink my whole life now. thanks, man.
Glade to be of service.
QUOTE
My evidence is the photograph, the downward movement of the spire prior to visible collapse initiation of the perimeter column collapse.
Gordon
Gordon
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| My evidence is the photograph, the downward movement of the spire prior to visible collapse initiation of the perimeter column collapse. Gordon |
By the way. Your theory falls down on one basic observation. The core failed first, evidenced by the early movement of the antennae. There is no way for your theory to hold up with this factor.
Gordon
QUOTE (Arthur+)
Well, apparently you were wrong.
QUOTE (NIST+)
"Photographic and videographic records were reviewed to identify structurally-related events. Where possible, all four faces of a building were examined for a given event or time period to provide complete understanding of the building response. Observations from a single vantage point can be misleading and may result in incorrect interpretation of events. For instance, photographic and videographic records taken from due north of the WTC 1 collapse appeared to indicate that the antenna was sinking into the roof (McAllister 2002). When records from east and west vantage points were viewed, it was apparent that the building section above the impact area tilted to the south as the building collapsed."
QUOTE
No Arthur. I was right. I said it moved. It did move. If that is not correct perhaps you can enlighten us as to how something, anything, can tilt without moving.
Gordon
Gordon
Was MOVE DOWNWARD ==> becomes == CAN TILT.
WEASEL
Arthur
STEEL STEEL STEEL STEEL, MY GOD PEOPLE, MINIMAL TO THE ENTIRE EVENT WAS THE gd STEEL! MORESO WAS THE 6 FLOOR HOLE IN THE STRUCTURE, THAT HAD NO CORE, WAS BLOWN UP FROM INSIDE, AND THE ONLY LINKS HOLDING IT ALL TOGETHER WERE GONE, THE TRUSSES. THE HEAT ONLY NEEDED TO BE HOT ENOUGH TO CHANGE TEMPER, AND NOT OF THE STEEL, BUT OF THE BOLTS HOLDING THE STRUCTURE TOGETHER, AS THERE WERE NO RIVOTS OR WELDS, NOR MASONRY, NOR NOTHING ELSE. THE SIGNIFICANCE TO THE DEVISTATING HEAT NOT TEMPRETURE WAS ALL THAT WAS NEEDED TO HAVE THE FEW REMAINING COMPONENTS TO FAIL. THE PLANE WENT THROUGH THE BUILDING, AND IF IT DID, THEN THE CORE WAS GONE! 3 FLOORS AND 3 FLOORS DOWN THE TRUSSES THAT HELD THE OUTER TO THE INNER WERE GONE! THE EXPOLOSION THAT WAS EQUILIVANT TO 5 TONS OF TNT BLASTED ALL THE INNER COMPONENTS ON ALL SIDES. ON THE NORTH TOWER WE HAVE ON THE OUTER HOLLOW TUBE STEEL SKIN ONE GIANT HOLE ON THE ENTRY AND ONE EXIT EFFECTING MULTIPLE FLOORS, WE HAVE ON ANOTHER A WING THAT SLICED IT ALL THE WAY ACROSS, ABD ANOTHER INCLUDING ALL THAT HAD THAT BLAST. WITH THE CORE GONE, THERE WAS NOTHING INSIDE THE STRUCTURE TO KEEP IT FROM FALLING, AND THE OUTER SKIN HAD VERY LITTLE EITHER, AND IT WAS NOT A DIRECT LOAD BEARING SYSTEM WITHOUT BEING HOOKED TO THE CORE. SO WE HAVE THE CORNER ATTACH BRACKETTING BASICALLY HOLDING UP THE TOP PORTION FROM THE 70 FRRT TO THE BOTTOM. THE FIRES HEAT CHANGED THE TEMPER OF THE CONNECTING BOLTS, AND THEY GOT SOFT TO WHERE THE WEIGHT SHAEARED THROUGH THEM, AND IT FELL. wHY THIS CONTINUING DIATRIBE ONLY ABOUT THE STUPID TEMP ON STEEL, YOU ALL ARE SUPPOSED TO BE DOING PHYSICS HERE, BUT ON ALL ASPECTS OF EVENT, NOT JUST ONE THAT BRINGS IT EASY TO COME TO YOUR CONVOLUTING OUTCOMES. gO AND GET ALL THE FACTORS, AND ALL THE EVENTS OF JEULES, AND POUNDS FEET, AND IMPACT AND EXPLOSIVE RATIOS, APPLY ALL NECESSARY SCIENCE AND ACTIONS. TO PLACE THIS REPEATING IDEA TO JET FUEL ON STEEL IS AN ASSNINE APPROACH, AND IN GUIDED BY AGENDA, AND NOT SCIENCE!
QUOTE
u have no evidence of explosives
-----------------except for sonic signatures and pictures of violent ejections of debris,
-----------------except for sonic signatures and pictures of violent ejections of debris,
---------------------------------------Except that debris is explained away easily by a build up of pressure from falling floors within the building. The evidence is the slow start to these ejections which progress. The evidence is you never produced an explosive which can cut structural steel yet explodes backward to explain this.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| u have no evidence of explosives -----------------except for sonic signatures and pictures of violent ejections of debris, |
---------------------------------------Except that debris is explained away easily by a build up of pressure from falling floors within the building. The evidence is the slow start to these ejections which progress. The evidence is you never produced an explosive which can cut structural steel yet explodes backward to explain this.
and nearly frictionless collapses of three steel frame buildings, two of which were award winning 'engineering marvels' when they were built,
------------------------------------------Except that the videos do show a collapse with lots of friction which slowed the floors down. Except that CT videos produced by 22 year old media enthusiast stop the fall timer at the time the perimeter columns hit the ground instead of the building. A clear indication the whole CT argument needs lies to support it.
QUOTE
and molten metal
-------------------------------------------Except that there are a number of ways this metal could have become that hot. Including the event itself creating enough heat and insulation to sustain this effect, pockets large enough to keep cars under the towers untouched by debris.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| and molten metal |
-------------------------------------------Except that there are a number of ways this metal could have become that hot. Including the event itself creating enough heat and insulation to sustain this effect, pockets large enough to keep cars under the towers untouched by debris.
, and pyroclastic flows and burned and flipped cars
------------------------------------------Except the no 212 degree F pyroclastic flow burns cars yet leave people and trees alone. And no explosion HOPS over cars to flip others.
QUOTE
and the complete pulverisation of everything in the building including people, plastic, glass, concrete and wood into an ultrafine dust........
------------------------------------------Exept that you would expect a 110 story office building collapse to pulverize it's 2-3 inch concrete floors in what can only be discribed as the mother of all jack hammer effects. You would expect everything else in the building to sucome to the effect.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| and the complete pulverisation of everything in the building including people, plastic, glass, concrete and wood into an ultrafine dust........ |
------------------------------------------Exept that you would expect a 110 story office building collapse to pulverize it's 2-3 inch concrete floors in what can only be discribed as the mother of all jack hammer effects. You would expect everything else in the building to sucome to the effect.
-----------------------i TRIED to arrest him, but the entire military and legal might of the USA stopped me(by the way, he's YOUR boy, not mine, i'm not 'letting him get away' with anything, common clod)
-------------------------------------------u r creating a laughable conspiracy theory which will be tied together with the real conspiracies which followed 9/11 in a neat little bow. That makes him you're buddy, not mine. Especially since I'm not the one who thinks the thousands of americans who would have to be involved in this mass murder love the idiot so much they would go to jail for him. YOU are, k? You think hes Jesus Christ, k? numbskull newt?
QUOTE
------------------------------------------and you!? what are YOU doing, 'liberal' crusader for justice?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------right now stopping people like you from letting Bush get away with murder. Soon I'll be working to get democrats in power so they can investigate Bush's real crimes. The ones the republicans said they would investigate but never have. People like you who work for Rove (Know it or not) are making that effort difficult.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| ------------------------------------------and you!? what are YOU doing, 'liberal' crusader for justice? |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------right now stopping people like you from letting Bush get away with murder. Soon I'll be working to get democrats in power so they can investigate Bush's real crimes. The ones the republicans said they would investigate but never have. People like you who work for Rove (Know it or not) are making that effort difficult.
------------------------------------that means a lot coming from you. i'll rethink my whole life now. thanks, man.
Glade to be of service.
well said and if you don't believe it then that is to do with any research into the subject
Check out this info below for necessary links
As a core member of the UK and Ireland 911 Truth Campaign what I say here is backed up by the likes of former MI5 officer David Shayler, authors Ian Henshall, Rowland Morgan, Nafeez Ahmed etc – see http://nineeleven.co.uk.
There is no longer any debate. 911 was an inside job – the evidence was overwhelming years ago. Please don’t take my word for it – do your own reading/watching - there are dozens of good books and films let alone the many websites. There are even peer reviewed scientific papers now. If you have yet to see a film regarding 911 (Fahrenheit 911 does not count) then I recommend Loose Change 2.
There is no point in arguing with those who haven’t accessed the relevant information. How people can argue an opinion based on little or no information has always bemused me. The fact is that no one ever argues once they’ve seen the evidence. If the truth is, that you simply just don’t wanna know then don’t be dismissive – just leave this thread and go and read something a bit cossier.
Sticking to the music, Eminem, Mos Def, Paris, Braintax, Public Enemy, Dead Prez, Immortal Technique, Photek, Blackout (Bristol dnb) are but a few artists that are now understanding the 911 ‘conspiracy’. It’s been pretty much mainstream knowledge for at least a year now and if you’re still in denial after watching some of the films below then you probably always will be.
There is a high likelihood of a war on Iran in the near future. It is imperative that you understand how the war on terror has been manufactured as part of a pretext for wars of aggression in the Middle East and the loss of civil freedoms here at home.
Remember there categorically were no wmd in Iraq and our top politicians fed the public false information over and over – tens of thousands of people have died. Ask yourself – who benefits?
Most of you, I’m sure realise, the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are about controlling the world’s energy resources. The blueprint was laid out by the Neocons in the Project for the New American Century pre 911 – it doesn’t stop at Iraq.
“The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don’t do anything about it.” ~ Albert Einstein
Adrian Connock
http://officialconfusion.com
Local press coverage
9/11 'THE WORK OF SECURITY CHIEFS'
Bristol Evening Post
Recent mainstream news article
Experts Call for Release of 9/11 Evidence
Yahoo newswire
HERE ARE A FEW 911 LINKS – mainly streaming video
Analysis of the attack on the twin towers and the Pentagon:
Loose Change (2nd Edition) Contains animations of the attack on the Pentagon and a very thorough analysis of both the attacks on WTC and the Pentagon:
Loose Change 2nd Edition
Martial Law – Alex Jones. Out of the ashes of the September 11th tragedy, a dark empire of war and tyranny has risen. The Constitution has been shredded and America is now a Police State. This film exposes not just who was behind the 9-11 attacks, but the roots and history of its orchestration.
Martial Law 9/11 - Rise of the Police State:
Face the Facts – 911truthbristol.com – a punchy to the point 45 minute overview of the key 911 issues. Plus links to other 911 related films, which give the viewer a wider understanding of state sponsored terror and the manufacturing of war for profit and power. Face the Facts
Guerilla News Network Aftermath: 911 Unanswered Questions Highlighting the inconsistencies with protocol on 911 and the motives behind elements of the US government orchestrating the attacks.
Painful Deceptions - This video deals with pretty much, every unanswered question surrounding the attacks. Painful Deceptions - An analysis of the September 11th Attack
This recent presentation by Dr. Steven Jones (Department of Physics and Astronomy - Brigham Young University) is primarily focused on the collapses of World Trade Center 1, 2, and 7 on 9/11.
9/11 Revisited: Scientific and Ethical Questions
Here are the related documents that go along with this presentation:
Jones's research 'white paper'
Steven Jones has joined: Scholars for 9/11 Truth
Acoustic profile of the explosives used to bring down the towers. Recorded by an eyewitness, who filmed the entire attack from peer 51. This video contains footage you can't find anywhere else.
911 Eyewitness
There are some who maintain that the mythical 9/11 hijackers, although proven to be too incompetent to fly a little Cessna 172, had acquired the impressive skills that enabled them to fly airliners by training in flight simulators. Nila Sagadevan is an aeronautical engineer and a qualified pilot. Here he explains how the maneuvers Hani Hanjour had to go through to reach the Pentagon are virtually impossible.
The Impossibility of Flying Heavy Aircraft Without Training
About suspicious events on the stock market up to 911
Ever since the attacks on the World Trade towers and the Pentagon, disturbing questions have been raised about the possible involvement of some parts of the U.S. security apparatus or Administration. These questions have been supported by extensive circumstantial evidence and has been investigated by several U.S. Congressional Committees. Furthermore, the U.S. media have reported on the well known relationship which exists between President George W. Bush, the Carlyle Group, several oil companies and the Bin Laden Family.
Former narcotics investigator Mike Ruppert was forced out of the LAPD in 1977 when he exposed evidence of drug trafficking by the CIA. The Truth & Lies of 9-11 is a filmed lecture at Portland State University, where Ruppert uses only government documents, official statements and press reports as the basis of his investigative work. This pioneering, groundbreaking expose of 9-11, now two years old, paints a stark and accurate picture of our world today and tomorrow.
Truth and Lies of 911
Debunking the Kean commission report about 911
David Ray Griffin explains PNAC and the neocon's dream about an American empire in relation to 911
911 and the American Empire
Here he literally debunks the entire report as a 170 page lie:
The 911 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions
Specifically about 9/11 in relation to PNAC (Project for the New American Century)
Was 9/11 more than just an attack? Could the Bush administration have had anything to gain from the attack? Two prominent European politicians, Michael Meacher and Andreas von Bülow, express their serious doubts about the official version of the 9/11 story.
Attack or Godsend
Alternative link:Attack or Godsend
About the media as complicit in the cover-up of 9/11
This is a ground-breaking 44-minute video by Barrie Zwicker. He was the first mainstream journalist in the world to go on air (in January 2002) and ask hard questions about the official story of 9/11. He analyses the use of fear to befuddle the public. He deconstructs the so-called "war on terrorism". He examines in depth the failure of the military on 9/11 and George Bush's highly inappropriate behaviour that day. He finds the 9/11 Commission to be a total cover-up operation. Throughout, he analyses the role of the mainstream media as complicit in keeping the public massively misinformed and befuddled.
The 911 news special you never saw
Perspective on 9-11 excerpts the portion of Painful Deceptions that covers the collapse of Building 7 -- which includes five videos of the Building 7's implosion Jenkins combines the best parts of the work of others, sticks to substantial evidence, and frames the presentation of that evidence in a historical context that facilitates its objective examination.
Perspective on 9/11
Download links to most videos listed above
http://www.question911.com/links.php
Links to high resolution XviD's and DivX: Conspiracy Central (Searched on 911). You will have to sign up HERE to see the download links and you need a bit torrent client to download them
Other Documentation for those who wants to check the facts for themselves:
911 data archives
Truth Bristol 911 links
NIST report:
http://wtc.nist.gov/reports_october05.htm
Comments from other experts on this report:
http://wtc.nist.gov/wtc_public_comments.htm
Eyewitness testimonies:
http://www.mjbarkl.com/locked.htm
911 reading room:
http://911readingroom.org/bib/
Pictures, reports, articles etc.
http://911research.wtc7.net/
Precedents, motives and a history of bankers raping nations with artificial inflation to throw them into war
THE MONEY MASTERS is a 3 1/2 hour non-fiction, historical documentary that traces the origins of the political power structure that rules our nation and the world today. The modern political power structure has its roots in the hidden manipulation and accumulation of gold and other forms of money. The development of fractional reserve banking practices in the 17th century brought to a cunning sophistication the secret techniques initially used by goldsmiths fraudulently to accumulate wealth. With the formation of the privately-owned Bank of England in 1694, the yoke of economic slavery to a privately-owned "central" bank was first forced upon the backs of an entire nation, not removed but only made heavier with the passing of the three centuries to our day. Nation after nation, including America, has fallen prey to this cabal of international central bankers. Info: http://www.themoneymasters.com/
The Money Masters 1 of 3
The Money Masters 2 of 3
The Money Masters 3 of 3
Check out this info below for necessary links
As a core member of the UK and Ireland 911 Truth Campaign what I say here is backed up by the likes of former MI5 officer David Shayler, authors Ian Henshall, Rowland Morgan, Nafeez Ahmed etc – see http://nineeleven.co.uk.
There is no longer any debate. 911 was an inside job – the evidence was overwhelming years ago. Please don’t take my word for it – do your own reading/watching - there are dozens of good books and films let alone the many websites. There are even peer reviewed scientific papers now. If you have yet to see a film regarding 911 (Fahrenheit 911 does not count) then I recommend Loose Change 2.
There is no point in arguing with those who haven’t accessed the relevant information. How people can argue an opinion based on little or no information has always bemused me. The fact is that no one ever argues once they’ve seen the evidence. If the truth is, that you simply just don’t wanna know then don’t be dismissive – just leave this thread and go and read something a bit cossier.
Sticking to the music, Eminem, Mos Def, Paris, Braintax, Public Enemy, Dead Prez, Immortal Technique, Photek, Blackout (Bristol dnb) are but a few artists that are now understanding the 911 ‘conspiracy’. It’s been pretty much mainstream knowledge for at least a year now and if you’re still in denial after watching some of the films below then you probably always will be.
There is a high likelihood of a war on Iran in the near future. It is imperative that you understand how the war on terror has been manufactured as part of a pretext for wars of aggression in the Middle East and the loss of civil freedoms here at home.
Remember there categorically were no wmd in Iraq and our top politicians fed the public false information over and over – tens of thousands of people have died. Ask yourself – who benefits?
Most of you, I’m sure realise, the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are about controlling the world’s energy resources. The blueprint was laid out by the Neocons in the Project for the New American Century pre 911 – it doesn’t stop at Iraq.
“The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don’t do anything about it.” ~ Albert Einstein
Adrian Connock
http://officialconfusion.com
Local press coverage
9/11 'THE WORK OF SECURITY CHIEFS'
Bristol Evening Post
Recent mainstream news article
Experts Call for Release of 9/11 Evidence
Yahoo newswire
HERE ARE A FEW 911 LINKS – mainly streaming video
Analysis of the attack on the twin towers and the Pentagon:
Loose Change (2nd Edition) Contains animations of the attack on the Pentagon and a very thorough analysis of both the attacks on WTC and the Pentagon:
Loose Change 2nd Edition
Martial Law – Alex Jones. Out of the ashes of the September 11th tragedy, a dark empire of war and tyranny has risen. The Constitution has been shredded and America is now a Police State. This film exposes not just who was behind the 9-11 attacks, but the roots and history of its orchestration.
Martial Law 9/11 - Rise of the Police State:
Face the Facts – 911truthbristol.com – a punchy to the point 45 minute overview of the key 911 issues. Plus links to other 911 related films, which give the viewer a wider understanding of state sponsored terror and the manufacturing of war for profit and power. Face the Facts
Guerilla News Network Aftermath: 911 Unanswered Questions Highlighting the inconsistencies with protocol on 911 and the motives behind elements of the US government orchestrating the attacks.
Painful Deceptions - This video deals with pretty much, every unanswered question surrounding the attacks. Painful Deceptions - An analysis of the September 11th Attack
This recent presentation by Dr. Steven Jones (Department of Physics and Astronomy - Brigham Young University) is primarily focused on the collapses of World Trade Center 1, 2, and 7 on 9/11.
9/11 Revisited: Scientific and Ethical Questions
Here are the related documents that go along with this presentation:
Jones's research 'white paper'
Steven Jones has joined: Scholars for 9/11 Truth
Acoustic profile of the explosives used to bring down the towers. Recorded by an eyewitness, who filmed the entire attack from peer 51. This video contains footage you can't find anywhere else.
911 Eyewitness
There are some who maintain that the mythical 9/11 hijackers, although proven to be too incompetent to fly a little Cessna 172, had acquired the impressive skills that enabled them to fly airliners by training in flight simulators. Nila Sagadevan is an aeronautical engineer and a qualified pilot. Here he explains how the maneuvers Hani Hanjour had to go through to reach the Pentagon are virtually impossible.
The Impossibility of Flying Heavy Aircraft Without Training
About suspicious events on the stock market up to 911
Ever since the attacks on the World Trade towers and the Pentagon, disturbing questions have been raised about the possible involvement of some parts of the U.S. security apparatus or Administration. These questions have been supported by extensive circumstantial evidence and has been investigated by several U.S. Congressional Committees. Furthermore, the U.S. media have reported on the well known relationship which exists between President George W. Bush, the Carlyle Group, several oil companies and the Bin Laden Family.
Former narcotics investigator Mike Ruppert was forced out of the LAPD in 1977 when he exposed evidence of drug trafficking by the CIA. The Truth & Lies of 9-11 is a filmed lecture at Portland State University, where Ruppert uses only government documents, official statements and press reports as the basis of his investigative work. This pioneering, groundbreaking expose of 9-11, now two years old, paints a stark and accurate picture of our world today and tomorrow.
Truth and Lies of 911
Debunking the Kean commission report about 911
David Ray Griffin explains PNAC and the neocon's dream about an American empire in relation to 911
911 and the American Empire
Here he literally debunks the entire report as a 170 page lie:
The 911 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions
Specifically about 9/11 in relation to PNAC (Project for the New American Century)
Was 9/11 more than just an attack? Could the Bush administration have had anything to gain from the attack? Two prominent European politicians, Michael Meacher and Andreas von Bülow, express their serious doubts about the official version of the 9/11 story.
Attack or Godsend
Alternative link:Attack or Godsend
About the media as complicit in the cover-up of 9/11
This is a ground-breaking 44-minute video by Barrie Zwicker. He was the first mainstream journalist in the world to go on air (in January 2002) and ask hard questions about the official story of 9/11. He analyses the use of fear to befuddle the public. He deconstructs the so-called "war on terrorism". He examines in depth the failure of the military on 9/11 and George Bush's highly inappropriate behaviour that day. He finds the 9/11 Commission to be a total cover-up operation. Throughout, he analyses the role of the mainstream media as complicit in keeping the public massively misinformed and befuddled.
The 911 news special you never saw
Perspective on 9-11 excerpts the portion of Painful Deceptions that covers the collapse of Building 7 -- which includes five videos of the Building 7's implosion Jenkins combines the best parts of the work of others, sticks to substantial evidence, and frames the presentation of that evidence in a historical context that facilitates its objective examination.
Perspective on 9/11
Download links to most videos listed above
http://www.question911.com/links.php
Links to high resolution XviD's and DivX: Conspiracy Central (Searched on 911). You will have to sign up HERE to see the download links and you need a bit torrent client to download them
Other Documentation for those who wants to check the facts for themselves:
911 data archives
Truth Bristol 911 links
NIST report:
http://wtc.nist.gov/reports_october05.htm
Comments from other experts on this report:
http://wtc.nist.gov/wtc_public_comments.htm
Eyewitness testimonies:
http://www.mjbarkl.com/locked.htm
911 reading room:
http://911readingroom.org/bib/
Pictures, reports, articles etc.
http://911research.wtc7.net/
Precedents, motives and a history of bankers raping nations with artificial inflation to throw them into war
THE MONEY MASTERS is a 3 1/2 hour non-fiction, historical documentary that traces the origins of the political power structure that rules our nation and the world today. The modern political power structure has its roots in the hidden manipulation and accumulation of gold and other forms of money. The development of fractional reserve banking practices in the 17th century brought to a cunning sophistication the secret techniques initially used by goldsmiths fraudulently to accumulate wealth. With the formation of the privately-owned Bank of England in 1694, the yoke of economic slavery to a privately-owned "central" bank was first forced upon the backs of an entire nation, not removed but only made heavier with the passing of the three centuries to our day. Nation after nation, including America, has fallen prey to this cabal of international central bankers. Info: http://www.themoneymasters.com/
The Money Masters 1 of 3
The Money Masters 2 of 3
The Money Masters 3 of 3
QUOTE (HEH!+Mar 12 2006, 02:40 AM)
QUOTE (Common NonSense+Mar 12 2006, 06:54 AM)
Cars flip over all the time when buildings collapse. It's a natural occurance.
At least that's what they told me in training before they put this computer in front of me.
They also told me that if I type in a large font no one will notice that I lie
YOU HAVE TO USE ALL CAPS AND BOLD, TOO! DUH! WHAT DIVISION ARE YOU IN? HEH!
IF IT BOTHERS A CTers WHO REPEATS THE SAME ARGUMENT ALREADY ADDRESSED OVER AND OVER, YES! Heh!
At least that's what they told me in training before they put this computer in front of me.
They also told me that if I type in a large font no one will notice that I lie
YOU HAVE TO USE ALL CAPS AND BOLD, TOO! DUH! WHAT DIVISION ARE YOU IN? HEH!
IF IT BOTHERS A CTers WHO REPEATS THE SAME ARGUMENT ALREADY ADDRESSED OVER AND OVER, YES! Heh!
Newton wrote:
"an aluminum tin can rips through steel columns, without the wings shearing off, or the tail shattering, and in fact, there is no visible decceleration of the plane as it 'butters' it's way into the building. (modifies...not even a crumple)"
So are you a blue screen and or hologram theorist?
Seems Newton has taken a strong turn against Hoffman/Jones etc.
"an aluminum tin can rips through steel columns, without the wings shearing off, or the tail shattering, and in fact, there is no visible decceleration of the plane as it 'butters' it's way into the building. (modifies...not even a crumple)"
So are you a blue screen and or hologram theorist?
Seems Newton has taken a strong turn against Hoffman/Jones etc.
QUOTE (Commen sense+Mar 12 2006, 03:37 AM)
QUOTE (Guest+Mar 12 2006, 03:19 AM)
QUOTE (adoucette+Mar 12 2006, 01:41 AM)
When I'm gone from this Earth I SINCERELY hope that I'm talked about for as long and as often as the CT'ers have talked about Schneibster since he's been gone.
Threatening to axe someone you disagree with on a public physics forum does tend to leave a lasting impression. Wouldn't you agree? No?
I guess if your stupid enough to to think he could go through the monitor...
Did I forget to add the "I will hunt you down" part. So sorry. It says a lot about the murderer car that this guy is their hero for whom they feel such an obligation to come to his defense.
So by your estimation the Fire crew took longer to go DOWN 6 stories as it took to CLIMB 78 stories???
BOY, them NYFD are one bunch of MORONS.
So by your estimation the Fire crew took longer to go DOWN 6 stories as it took to CLIMB 78 stories???
BOY, them NYFD are one bunch of MORONS.
You seem to be missing the point. If the floors pulled the columns in, how is it that those two corners and possibly more, remain standing up to six seconds after collapse. How did the spandrel plates become disconnected? Why just these corner sections remaining? How is it that large sections of the walls are falling outwards? Why are the first expulsions on the corners with subsequent expulsions staggered inwards as collapse progresses?How did the upper section of core become disconnected?
Gordon.
Gordon,
THERE ARE NO OUTSIDE CORNER COLUMNS.
The corners we are talking about are the MASSIVE CORNER COLUMNS of the CORE.
The 4 Corner Columns of the Core carried 20% of the Core's load.
Gordon CONTINUES with his meltdown.
Sad really,
Of the CLOWNS, at least he showed SOME promise of lucidity.
Pity.
Arthur
Hes already announced his bias way back. I knew he was just another CTer. One who stands to make money off the idiots who believe him no doubt.
I POST A PICTURE OF THIS TREE
Arthur
Metamars comes back with THIS question:
Can you place this tree on a steet map?
Metamars,
LOOK A LITTLE PAST THE TREE, PAST THE WORK LIGHT THEY HAVE SET UP TO SHINE ON THE SITE.
See the SMOLDERING PILE???
LOOK A LITTLE PAST THAT.
WHAT DO YOU SEE STICKING UP????
Does THIS help you place the tree?
Not sure how it could have BEEN any closer.
Arthur
You're still not answering my questions. Note well that the tree seems to be completely undamaged. Seems rather unlikely that the tree would be apparently so close to the fallen debris, with no visible damage.
I POST A PICTURE OF THIS TREE
Arthur
Metamars comes back with THIS question:
Can you place this tree on a steet map?
Metamars,
LOOK A LITTLE PAST THE TREE, PAST THE WORK LIGHT THEY HAVE SET UP TO SHINE ON THE SITE.
See the SMOLDERING PILE???
LOOK A LITTLE PAST THAT.
WHAT DO YOU SEE STICKING UP????
Does THIS help you place the tree?
Not sure how it could have BEEN any closer.
Arthur
You're still not answering my questions. Note well that the tree seems to be completely undamaged. Seems rather unlikely that the tree would be apparently so close to the fallen debris, with no visible damage.
Why, if something doesn't LAND on it, what do you think was going to HURT IT since the tree is obvious proof (as if we needed any more) that there was NO PYROCLASTIC CLOUD.
NOT EVEN A 100 C one, let alone the 1,000 K one that Hoffman postulates.
More trees:
Notice window boxes and street planters (so we are not just talking about GROUND temps either)
If these were any closer you would have to first lift the debris off them.
Notice how GREEN some of these look, so it must not be specie specific.
NEED MORE???
Or do you consider THESE fake as well???
Arthur
You still haven't answered my question, though I would guess that the interesection with the pink building should be identitfiable, if I made a trip to the ground zero area.
Can you pinpoint these on a map, or not?
BTW, these are (hopefully) not idle questions. I am not capable of doing a fluid hydrodynamics calculation, myself, but I believe that I may be able to make a rough approximation of the drop off of temperature with distance. *
As was discussed extensively earlier in the thread, nobody expects that the dust clouds would not rapidly cool off as they moved away from the source of their heating. To give yet another analogy, if you are deep frying something and it splatters hot grease on you from a very close distance, you may well get burned. If any grease ever reaches you from, say, 18 inches, you will not.
Now, if "proof by analogy" were sufficient, I might well change my name to "Reality Check 2". However, it is not sufficient, and so I do not claim that a calculation of plausible scenarios is not desirable. Quite the opposite, as is crystal clear from my previous writings on the subject.
============================
* Basically, an an initial analysis would involve these types of considerations and approximations:
- determine the concrete's mass
- assume the dust cloud is initially "made", but confined to a cylinder centered on the WTC footprint, with radius chosen such that it's area equals half the area of a WTC building footprint, and height chosen to match that observed in photographs and videos
- get an estimate for how long the dust cloud was produced (I would probabably just infer a figure from Hoffman's paper; IIRC, the dust cloud continued to be emitted from it's point of origin for many seconds after the collapses completed)
- assume that equal volumes of the dust cloud (at constant density) leave the cylinder/origin during this time interval, per unit time
- Note that volume of a cylinder increases as the square of the distance, so volume is dropping off as the inverse square of the distance
- Initially, I would just ignore the energy sink represented by the ambient air which mixes with the dust cloud, though I would add this in during a second pass.
- Following Hoffman, I would also assume that heat transfers are essentially instantaneous between concrete particles and gasses.
BTW, one obvious physics question in my mind regarding all of this is: If gasses expanded due to heat, they obviously much contract as they cool off. However, I fully expect that the suspended concrete particles should not be "inclined" to contract in a similar sense as the ambient gasses. Thus, their location within a volume of air will be determined simply by dynamical considerations - i.e., where they were pushed to by ambient gasses - and thus using the boundary defined by the concrete particles (i.e., the "front") as some kind of indication of a temperature boundary is very misleading.
I'm sure adoucette has thought all this through, right? I'm sure he considered well not only the similarities, but also the differences inherent between a volcanic pyroclastic flow and a WTC pyroclastic flow. Am I correct here, or incorrect?
Of course, I'm being sarcastic, but I note, once again, that adoucette has not agreed that a hydrodynamical elaboration of Hoffman's central ideas would be a good thing. That is hardly a scientific attitude, quite inappropriate for a physics board.
Threatening to axe someone you disagree with on a public physics forum does tend to leave a lasting impression. Wouldn't you agree? No?
I guess if your stupid enough to to think he could go through the monitor...
Did I forget to add the "I will hunt you down" part. So sorry. It says a lot about the murderer car that this guy is their hero for whom they feel such an obligation to come to his defense.
QUOTE (gordon+Mar 12 2006, 07:40 AM)
A revision to the BIGGEST COLLECTION OF IDIOTS EVER ON ONE THREAD.
It obviously requires TWO large Mini-buses to hold these clowns:
Whereas the annual general meeting of everybody who thinks you talk sense can be accomodated in a phone box.
Gordon
That's the most moronic thing I've heard from this moron yet. The cters are in such a minority even the civil engineers in Jones's BYU think you guys are a joke.
You sound like Bush projecting yourself on others. Heh!
It obviously requires TWO large Mini-buses to hold these clowns:
Whereas the annual general meeting of everybody who thinks you talk sense can be accomodated in a phone box.
Gordon
That's the most moronic thing I've heard from this moron yet. The cters are in such a minority even the civil engineers in Jones's BYU think you guys are a joke.
You sound like Bush projecting yourself on others. Heh!
okay, i think your right, gordon. i think there were two corner columns on each corner.
why wouldn't there be? the three column perimeter spandrel plates can be seen at diffent heights than these two corner columns in some of the aerial photos of construction phases.
arthur, just keeps doing the regular song and dance, deny, deny, deny, proved, admit but obfuscate and forget earlier proven variables.
you brave bush defender(s) have been pushing the possibility of a 'syringe theory' that can send out a 'pulse' and claim extreme chaos as an excuse to not possible analyuse the collapse, and yet won't admit that such a 'pulse' could be COOLER AIR in the maelstrom of MOSTLY HOT churning and expanding gases.
the surrounding buildings are covered in SOOT like after a HUGE EXPLOSION.
and, hereward, that IS weird the way cars were reported spontaneuosly exploding when there was no visible heat source. this may point to some kind of exotic secret weapon working on unknown principles.
perhaps this is also why trees were spared, where materials with a higher degree of volatility exploded. i was never a fan of the syringe theory.
perhaps, also, it was due to a random rain of hot balls of thermite.
and, reality check. i'm sorry to be inaccurate.
it was BOOOOOM(tower hasn't budged),..........some 17 to 20s of blessed peace
and then as the tower goes instantly into freefall(as per brazant zhou's analysis)....
...BOOOOM, .....BOOOOOOMooooBOOOOOOOOOOMooooooooooBOOOOOOOOOMoooBOOOOOOOM
(and then no more noise while the spire staggers, and then plummets. once again that is NO NOISE from the collapse of the spire(as recorded from hoboken).
the sound wave graphs clearly show massive percussive spikes that do not match the smooth descent of the tower. one would need to see sudden movement, and then a sudden stop to produce those sounds with a falling object hitting another, like the noise of a drum. the kinetic energy of the stick is translated instantly to the drum head(notice the stick now bounces back up).
explosions taking out core support totally makes sense of the sounds vs. motion comparison and the HUGE PERCUSSIVE SPIKES.
why wouldn't there be? the three column perimeter spandrel plates can be seen at diffent heights than these two corner columns in some of the aerial photos of construction phases.
arthur, just keeps doing the regular song and dance, deny, deny, deny, proved, admit but obfuscate and forget earlier proven variables.
you brave bush defender(s) have been pushing the possibility of a 'syringe theory' that can send out a 'pulse' and claim extreme chaos as an excuse to not possible analyuse the collapse, and yet won't admit that such a 'pulse' could be COOLER AIR in the maelstrom of MOSTLY HOT churning and expanding gases.
the surrounding buildings are covered in SOOT like after a HUGE EXPLOSION.
and, hereward, that IS weird the way cars were reported spontaneuosly exploding when there was no visible heat source. this may point to some kind of exotic secret weapon working on unknown principles.
perhaps this is also why trees were spared, where materials with a higher degree of volatility exploded. i was never a fan of the syringe theory.
perhaps, also, it was due to a random rain of hot balls of thermite.
and, reality check. i'm sorry to be inaccurate.
it was BOOOOOM(tower hasn't budged),..........some 17 to 20s of blessed peace
and then as the tower goes instantly into freefall(as per brazant zhou's analysis)....
...BOOOOM, .....BOOOOOOMooooBOOOOOOOOOOMooooooooooBOOOOOOOOOMoooBOOOOOOOM
(and then no more noise while the spire staggers, and then plummets. once again that is NO NOISE from the collapse of the spire(as recorded from hoboken).
the sound wave graphs clearly show massive percussive spikes that do not match the smooth descent of the tower. one would need to see sudden movement, and then a sudden stop to produce those sounds with a falling object hitting another, like the noise of a drum. the kinetic energy of the stick is translated instantly to the drum head(notice the stick now bounces back up).
explosions taking out core support totally makes sense of the sounds vs. motion comparison and the HUGE PERCUSSIVE SPIKES.
QUOTE (adoucette+Mar 12 2006, 08:33 AM)
QUOTE
In the second collapse the core was not visible as it was after the first. This indicates that the core failure initiated at the base by the relatively slower acting thermite like charge was not as far advanced in the first collapse as it was in the second.So what could have caused the perpetrators to decide that it was necessary to set off the charges early on this tower? A question that I believe was being asked recently, but one with a very obvious but uncomfortable reply. Fire crew had just arrived on the first fire floor and were in direct radio contact.
Gordon.
Gordon.
So by your estimation the Fire crew took longer to go DOWN 6 stories as it took to CLIMB 78 stories???
BOY, them NYFD are one bunch of MORONS.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| In the second collapse the core was not visible as it was after the first. This indicates that the core failure initiated at the base by the relatively slower acting thermite like charge was not as far advanced in the first collapse as it was in the second.So what could have caused the perpetrators to decide that it was necessary to set off the charges early on this tower? A question that I believe was being asked recently, but one with a very obvious but uncomfortable reply. Fire crew had just arrived on the first fire floor and were in direct radio contact. Gordon. |
So by your estimation the Fire crew took longer to go DOWN 6 stories as it took to CLIMB 78 stories???
BOY, them NYFD are one bunch of MORONS.
You seem to be missing the point. If the floors pulled the columns in, how is it that those two corners and possibly more, remain standing up to six seconds after collapse. How did the spandrel plates become disconnected? Why just these corner sections remaining? How is it that large sections of the walls are falling outwards? Why are the first expulsions on the corners with subsequent expulsions staggered inwards as collapse progresses?How did the upper section of core become disconnected?
Gordon.
Gordon,
THERE ARE NO OUTSIDE CORNER COLUMNS.
The corners we are talking about are the MASSIVE CORNER COLUMNS of the CORE.
The 4 Corner Columns of the Core carried 20% of the Core's load.
Gordon CONTINUES with his meltdown.
Sad really,
Of the CLOWNS, at least he showed SOME promise of lucidity.
Pity.
Arthur
Hes already announced his bias way back. I knew he was just another CTer. One who stands to make money off the idiots who believe him no doubt.
QUOTE (adoucette+Mar 12 2006, 03:11 PM)
QUOTE (metamars+Mar 12 2006, 10:22 AM)
QUOTE (adoucette+Mar 12 2006, 06:47 AM)
QUOTE (metamars+Mar 11 2006, 09:30 PM)
QUOTE (Adoucette+)
I POST A PICTURE OF THIS TREE
Arthur
Metamars comes back with THIS question:
Can you place this tree on a steet map?
Metamars,
LOOK A LITTLE PAST THE TREE, PAST THE WORK LIGHT THEY HAVE SET UP TO SHINE ON THE SITE.
See the SMOLDERING PILE???
LOOK A LITTLE PAST THAT.
WHAT DO YOU SEE STICKING UP????
Does THIS help you place the tree?
Not sure how it could have BEEN any closer.
Arthur
You're still not answering my questions. Note well that the tree seems to be completely undamaged. Seems rather unlikely that the tree would be apparently so close to the fallen debris, with no visible damage.
QUOTE (metamars+Mar 12 2006, 10:22 AM)
QUOTE (adoucette+Mar 12 2006, 06:47 AM)
QUOTE (metamars+Mar 11 2006, 09:30 PM)
QUOTE (Adoucette+)
I POST A PICTURE OF THIS TREE
Arthur
Metamars comes back with THIS question:
Can you place this tree on a steet map?
Metamars,
LOOK A LITTLE PAST THE TREE, PAST THE WORK LIGHT THEY HAVE SET UP TO SHINE ON THE SITE.
See the SMOLDERING PILE???
LOOK A LITTLE PAST THAT.
WHAT DO YOU SEE STICKING UP????
Does THIS help you place the tree?
Not sure how it could have BEEN any closer.
Arthur
You're still not answering my questions. Note well that the tree seems to be completely undamaged. Seems rather unlikely that the tree would be apparently so close to the fallen debris, with no visible damage.
Why, if something doesn't LAND on it, what do you think was going to HURT IT since the tree is obvious proof (as if we needed any more) that there was NO PYROCLASTIC CLOUD.
NOT EVEN A 100 C one, let alone the 1,000 K one that Hoffman postulates.
More trees:
Notice window boxes and street planters (so we are not just talking about GROUND temps either)
If these were any closer you would have to first lift the debris off them.
Notice how GREEN some of these look, so it must not be specie specific.
NEED MORE???
Or do you consider THESE fake as well???
Arthur
You still haven't answered my question, though I would guess that the interesection with the pink building should be identitfiable, if I made a trip to the ground zero area.
Can you pinpoint these on a map, or not?
BTW, these are (hopefully) not idle questions. I am not capable of doing a fluid hydrodynamics calculation, myself, but I believe that I may be able to make a rough approximation of the drop off of temperature with distance. *
As was discussed extensively earlier in the thread, nobody expects that the dust clouds would not rapidly cool off as they moved away from the source of their heating. To give yet another analogy, if you are deep frying something and it splatters hot grease on you from a very close distance, you may well get burned. If any grease ever reaches you from, say, 18 inches, you will not.
Now, if "proof by analogy" were sufficient, I might well change my name to "Reality Check 2". However, it is not sufficient, and so I do not claim that a calculation of plausible scenarios is not desirable. Quite the opposite, as is crystal clear from my previous writings on the subject.
============================
* Basically, an an initial analysis would involve these types of considerations and approximations:
- determine the concrete's mass
- assume the dust cloud is initially "made", but confined to a cylinder centered on the WTC footprint, with radius chosen such that it's area equals half the area of a WTC building footprint, and height chosen to match that observed in photographs and videos
- get an estimate for how long the dust cloud was produced (I would probabably just infer a figure from Hoffman's paper; IIRC, the dust cloud continued to be emitted from it's point of origin for many seconds after the collapses completed)
- assume that equal volumes of the dust cloud (at constant density) leave the cylinder/origin during this time interval, per unit time
- Note that volume of a cylinder increases as the square of the distance, so volume is dropping off as the inverse square of the distance
- Initially, I would just ignore the energy sink represented by the ambient air which mixes with the dust cloud, though I would add this in during a second pass.
- Following Hoffman, I would also assume that heat transfers are essentially instantaneous between concrete particles and gasses.
BTW, one obvious physics question in my mind regarding all of this is: If gasses expanded due to heat, they obviously much contract as they cool off. However, I fully expect that the suspended concrete particles should not be "inclined" to contract in a similar sense as the ambient gasses. Thus, their location within a volume of air will be determined simply by dynamical considerations - i.e., where they were pushed to by ambient gasses - and thus using the boundary defined by the concrete particles (i.e., the "front") as some kind of indication of a temperature boundary is very misleading.
I'm sure adoucette has thought all this through, right? I'm sure he considered well not only the similarities, but also the differences inherent between a volcanic pyroclastic flow and a WTC pyroclastic flow. Am I correct here, or incorrect?
Of course, I'm being sarcastic, but I note, once again, that adoucette has not agreed that a hydrodynamical elaboration of Hoffman's central ideas would be a good thing. That is hardly a scientific attitude, quite inappropriate for a physics board.
when the perpetrators are in jail, EVERYONE will make money by not having all their tax dollars and public assets funneled into the hands of the neocon crone army.
there are no democrats, common sense. have you not seen enough pictures of kang(bush) and kodos(clinton) holding hands?
you're not a satanist, are you? or a 'texas longhorns' fan?
there are no democrats, common sense. have you not seen enough pictures of kang(bush) and kodos(clinton) holding hands?
you're not a satanist, are you? or a 'texas longhorns' fan?
I might add: if the rough calculation I have sketched out is done and it supports Hoffman, then I expect adoucette to become an eager proponent of a more elaborate and realistic analysis.
But I'm just speculating,here!!
But I'm just speculating,here!!
QUOTE (adoucette+Mar 12 2006, 01:28 PM)
QUOTE (hereward+Mar 12 2006, 08:50 AM)
And nobody seems to have any explanation other than that the cars were hit by burning debris... but witness have reported cars exploding... which is quite distinct from, say, being hit with a pice of burning debris.
What makes cars explode???? I am at a loss to explain this.
(: hereward
What makes cars explode?
Duh
Its called a GAS TANK.
But the fact is, virtually all the pictures are simply burned out vehicles.
They are burned out because there was almost no attempt made to put out the fires.
Because the people who could were:
A) Dead
B ) had no equipment
C) had equipment but no water pressure
D) worried about more important things, like finding their friends or finding fresh air
Arthur
Brought to you from INSULTINGLY STUPID MOVIE PHYSICS
Ever notice how cars in movies always burst into flames the instant they collide with anything? Our favorite is when a car falling from a high place explodes the instant before it hits the ground. It's as though its gas tank gets panicky and detonates at the mere thought of striking Earth. Fortunately, the physics are not so cooperative.
Gasoline has a very narrow flammable range of about 1.4 to 7.6% gasoline vapor in air 2. In other words, the vapor-air mixture must be exactly as specified or the gas will not burn, let alone explode! Note that we say vapor. Liquid gasoline must change into vapor before it can burn (although this is no huge problem since it easily vaporizes).
For a car to explode during impact the tank must catastrophically rupture and spew a fine mist of gasoline over a large area so it can vaporize and mix with air in exactly the right proportions. The mixture must then find a source of ignition. Automobile gas tanks are built to withstand a considerable impact force and are usually located in a protected area between the beams of a car's frame. Common ignition sources in the car's engine are generally at the other end of the vehicle.
As portrayed in movies, gasoline tanks are fragile and gasoline so volatile that the vaporizing and mixing process occurs in milliseconds. It always results in an explosive mixture which always finds a source of ignition. Thank heavens it's not so easy or people would regularly be blowing themselves up while refueling at the pump.
Even when a wrecked car catches on fire it rarely explodes. A gas tank can explode if it contains an explosive mixture and there's an opening for the flames to enter. More likely, fire would have to impinge on the outside of the gas tank, vaporizing the gasoline in the tank and eventually causing it to overpressure and explode. However, if the vapors escaped fast enough the tank would not rupture. Most fires start in the engine compartment and will not spread backwards to the gas tank area unless the tank is leaking fuel on the ground. Again a whole series of events has to be just right for an explosion to occur.
Although it's actually quite rare, exploding cars are a common excuse for not wearing seat belts. Onlookers at crash sites are often so concerned about explosions that they unnecessarily jeopardize a person with a spinal injury by pulling them out of a wrecked car. The common Hollywood depiction fuels these harmful misconceptions.
What makes cars explode???? I am at a loss to explain this.
(: hereward
What makes cars explode?
Duh
Its called a GAS TANK.
But the fact is, virtually all the pictures are simply burned out vehicles.
They are burned out because there was almost no attempt made to put out the fires.
Because the people who could were:
A) Dead
B ) had no equipment
C) had equipment but no water pressure
D) worried about more important things, like finding their friends or finding fresh air
Arthur
Brought to you from INSULTINGLY STUPID MOVIE PHYSICS
Ever notice how cars in movies always burst into flames the instant they collide with anything? Our favorite is when a car falling from a high place explodes the instant before it hits the ground. It's as though its gas tank gets panicky and detonates at the mere thought of striking Earth. Fortunately, the physics are not so cooperative.
Gasoline has a very narrow flammable range of about 1.4 to 7.6% gasoline vapor in air 2. In other words, the vapor-air mixture must be exactly as specified or the gas will not burn, let alone explode! Note that we say vapor. Liquid gasoline must change into vapor before it can burn (although this is no huge problem since it easily vaporizes).
For a car to explode during impact the tank must catastrophically rupture and spew a fine mist of gasoline over a large area so it can vaporize and mix with air in exactly the right proportions. The mixture must then find a source of ignition. Automobile gas tanks are built to withstand a considerable impact force and are usually located in a protected area between the beams of a car's frame. Common ignition sources in the car's engine are generally at the other end of the vehicle.
As portrayed in movies, gasoline tanks are fragile and gasoline so volatile that the vaporizing and mixing process occurs in milliseconds. It always results in an explosive mixture which always finds a source of ignition. Thank heavens it's not so easy or people would regularly be blowing themselves up while refueling at the pump.
Even when a wrecked car catches on fire it rarely explodes. A gas tank can explode if it contains an explosive mixture and there's an opening for the flames to enter. More likely, fire would have to impinge on the outside of the gas tank, vaporizing the gasoline in the tank and eventually causing it to overpressure and explode. However, if the vapors escaped fast enough the tank would not rupture. Most fires start in the engine compartment and will not spread backwards to the gas tank area unless the tank is leaking fuel on the ground. Again a whole series of events has to be just right for an explosion to occur.
Although it's actually quite rare, exploding cars are a common excuse for not wearing seat belts. Onlookers at crash sites are often so concerned about explosions that they unnecessarily jeopardize a person with a spinal injury by pulling them out of a wrecked car. The common Hollywood depiction fuels these harmful misconceptions.
QUOTE (metamars+Mar 12 2006, 04:41 PM)
I might add: if the rough calculation I have sketched out is done and it supports Hoffman, then I expect adoucette to become an eager proponent of a more elaborate and realistic analysis.
But I'm just speculating,here!!
of course. HAHAHA!
'they' will ALL 'convert'.
even the intimidating invisible army of laughing, mocking 'psyorg observers'. (i REALLY think there out there, metamars. RCS said so a couple times. i'm SURE it's not just more attempts at the bandwagon technique)
But I'm just speculating,here!!
of course. HAHAHA!
'they' will ALL 'convert'.
even the intimidating invisible army of laughing, mocking 'psyorg observers'. (i REALLY think there out there, metamars. RCS said so a couple times. i'm SURE it's not just more attempts at the bandwagon technique)
QUOTE (adoucette+Mar 12 2006, 07:34 AM)
Slick Gordy:
By the way. Your theory falls down on one basic observation. The core failed first, evidenced by the early movement of the antennae. There is no way for your theory to hold up with this factor.
Gordon
Well, apparently you were wrong.
"Photographic and videographic records were reviewed to identify structurally-related events. Where possible, all four faces of a building were examined for a given event or time period to provide complete understanding of the building response. Observations from a single vantage point can be misleading and may result in incorrect interpretation of events. For instance, photographic and videographic records taken from due north of the WTC 1 collapse appeared to indicate that the antenna was sinking into the roof (McAllister 2002). When records from east and west vantage points were viewed, it was apparent that the building section above the impact area tilted to the south as the building collapsed."
Was MOVE DOWNWARD ==> becomes == CAN TILT.
WEASEL
Arthur
Disinfo Arty , are you taking lessons form RC and Con-men Scene?
When the antenna on top of the building rotates about the pivot, would not one of the directions it moves be downward?
THERE ARE NO OUTSIDE CORNER COLUMNS.
The corners we are talking about are the MASSIVE CORNER COLUMNS of the CORE.
The 4 Corner Columns of the Core carried 20% of the Core's load.
Read the post. I explained that the eight lines of vertical charges isolated the corner columns, or if you prefer - the columns at the corners (about 4 - 6 of them) into isolated vertical columns, disconnected from their neighbouring columns by severing of the spandrel plates. My evidence for this is that these corner columns remained standing several seconds after the collapse front had passed to lower storeys.
Someone talks about the movement of the antennae.
Differentiation must be made between the mode of collapse of both towers. Remembering that the first collapse had to be triggered early due to the arrival of possible witnesses. This gave less time for the thermite charge in the lower levels to take effect meaning that, and supplying our evidence by showing that, the core from impact point to ground level was still upright for a few seconds after the collapse of walls, perimeter corners and the upper sections, including upper floors, hat truss, perimeter and core columns. It then fell more or less straight down upon itself.
In the second collapse, the additional time allowed the thermite to take effect and thus allow the core to fall as one unit. Evidence for this is the inward bowing of the walls of this tower over the 10-15 mins prior to collapse, caused by the core being gradually unable to carry the full load and deflecting downwards pulling inwards on the floors and hence the perimeter columns.
It all fits together.
Ask me another.
Gordon.
QUOTE
My evidence is the photograph, the downward movement of the spire prior to visible collapse initiation of the perimeter column collapse.
Gordon
Gordon
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| My evidence is the photograph, the downward movement of the spire prior to visible collapse initiation of the perimeter column collapse. Gordon |
By the way. Your theory falls down on one basic observation. The core failed first, evidenced by the early movement of the antennae. There is no way for your theory to hold up with this factor.
Gordon
QUOTE (Arthur+)
Well, apparently you were wrong.
QUOTE (NIST+)
"Photographic and videographic records were reviewed to identify structurally-related events. Where possible, all four faces of a building were examined for a given event or time period to provide complete understanding of the building response. Observations from a single vantage point can be misleading and may result in incorrect interpretation of events. For instance, photographic and videographic records taken from due north of the WTC 1 collapse appeared to indicate that the antenna was sinking into the roof (McAllister 2002). When records from east and west vantage points were viewed, it was apparent that the building section above the impact area tilted to the south as the building collapsed."
QUOTE
No Arthur. I was right. I said it moved. It did move. If that is not correct perhaps you can enlighten us as to how something, anything, can tilt without moving.
Gordon
Gordon
Was MOVE DOWNWARD ==> becomes == CAN TILT.
WEASEL
Arthur
Disinfo Arty , are you taking lessons form RC and Con-men Scene?
When the antenna on top of the building rotates about the pivot, would not one of the directions it moves be downward?
THERE ARE NO OUTSIDE CORNER COLUMNS.
The corners we are talking about are the MASSIVE CORNER COLUMNS of the CORE.
The 4 Corner Columns of the Core carried 20% of the Core's load.
Read the post. I explained that the eight lines of vertical charges isolated the corner columns, or if you prefer - the columns at the corners (about 4 - 6 of them) into isolated vertical columns, disconnected from their neighbouring columns by severing of the spandrel plates. My evidence for this is that these corner columns remained standing several seconds after the collapse front had passed to lower storeys.
Someone talks about the movement of the antennae.
Differentiation must be made between the mode of collapse of both towers. Remembering that the first collapse had to be triggered early due to the arrival of possible witnesses. This gave less time for the thermite charge in the lower levels to take effect meaning that, and supplying our evidence by showing that, the core from impact point to ground level was still upright for a few seconds after the collapse of walls, perimeter corners and the upper sections, including upper floors, hat truss, perimeter and core columns. It then fell more or less straight down upon itself.
In the second collapse, the additional time allowed the thermite to take effect and thus allow the core to fall as one unit. Evidence for this is the inward bowing of the walls of this tower over the 10-15 mins prior to collapse, caused by the core being gradually unable to carry the full load and deflecting downwards pulling inwards on the floors and hence the perimeter columns.
It all fits together.
Ask me another.
Gordon.
QUOTE (Guest+Mar 12 2006, 08:46 AM)
QUOTE (adoucette+Mar 12 2006, 01:28 PM)
QUOTE (hereward+Mar 12 2006, 08:50 AM)
And nobody seems to have any explanation other than that the cars were hit by burning debris... but witness have reported cars exploding... which is quite distinct from, say, being hit with a pice of burning debris.
What makes cars explode???? I am at a loss to explain this.
(: hereward
What makes cars explode?
Duh
Its called a GAS TANK.
But the fact is, virtually all the pictures are simply burned out vehicles.
They are burned out because there was almost no attempt made to put out the fires.
Because the people who could were:
A) Dead
B ) had no equipment
C) had equipment but no water pressure
D) worried about more important things, like finding their friends or finding fresh air
Arthur
Brought to you from INSULTINGLY STUPID MOVIE PHYSICS
Ever notice how cars in movies always burst into flames the instant they collide with anything? Our favorite is when a car falling from a high place explodes the instant before it hits the ground. It's as though its gas tank gets panicky and detonates at the mere thought of striking Earth. Fortunately, the physics are not so cooperative.
Gasoline has a very narrow flammable range of about 1.4 to 7.6% gasoline vapor in air 2. In other words, the vapor-air mixture must be exactly as specified or the gas will not burn, let alone explode! Note that we say vapor. Liquid gasoline must change into vapor before it can burn (although this is no huge problem since it easily vaporizes).
For a car to explode during impact the tank must catastrophically rupture and spew a fine mist of gasoline over a large area so it can vaporize and mix with air in exactly the right proportions. The mixture must then find a source of ignition. Automobile gas tanks are built to withstand a considerable impact force and are usually located in a protected area between the beams of a car's frame. Common ignition sources in the car's engine are generally at the other end of the vehicle.
As portrayed in movies, gasoline tanks are fragile and gasoline so volatile that the vaporizing and mixing process occurs in milliseconds. It always results in an explosive mixture which always finds a source of ignition. Thank heavens it's not so easy or people would regularly be blowing themselves up while refueling at the pump.
Even when a wrecked car catches on fire it rarely explodes. A gas tank can explode if it contains an explosive mixture and there's an opening for the flames to enter. More likely, fire would have to impinge on the outside of the gas tank, vaporizing the gasoline in the tank and eventually causing it to overpressure and explode. However, if the vapors escaped fast enough the tank would not rupture. Most fires start in the engine compartment and will not spread backwards to the gas tank area unless the tank is leaking fuel on the ground. Again a whole series of events has to be just right for an explosion to occur.
Although it's actually quite rare, exploding cars are a common excuse for not wearing seat belts. Onlookers at crash sites are often so concerned about explosions that they unnecessarily jeopardize a person with a spinal injury by pulling them out of a wrecked car. The common Hollywood depiction fuels these harmful misconceptions.
Excellent post guest, why don’t you register? Reminds me of :
The NBC Fuel tank hoax.
NBC news did a story on side mounted fuel tanks on GM trucks.
The claim of the story was that when such a truck was struck, it would burst into flames. GM insisted that it's side mounted truck fuel tanks were more than sturdy enough to survive the average traffic collision.
NBC produced and aired a video segment that showed a vehicle colliding with the side fuel tank of a GM truck at low speed, and the GM fuel tank exploded.
It later turned out that the fuel tank had been rigged with explosive devices by NBC to manufacture the explosion seen in their news report!
TIME article on the NBC hoax.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/LIE/nbc.html
and yet, it begins to tip, and then falls straight down. really quickly.
when you watch the rick siegel video of it, you can see a puff of dust(a 'puff' which is probably a story high) which initiates the tipping.
i think perhaps the above picture of the spire shows the same explosion.
I thought you were referring to the puffs on the buckled floors of the south tower as it tilted and started to collapse. My error. The explanation I gave was for that, not the spire.
The spire feature must have had a lot of dust on it already. Some of that would have gotten shaken off as it collapsed. It does give the impression of it disintegrating, but metal doesn't disintegrate. It was oscillating quite a bit in the video. Likely the bolts at the column splices fractured from the stress and it simply fell down.
The core wasn't made to take lateral stesses. That's why there were dampers to allow the perimeter to bend without bending the core.
and yet, it begins to tip, and then falls straight down. really quickly.
when you watch the rick siegel video of it, you can see a puff of dust(a 'puff' which is probably a story high) which initiates the tipping.
i think perhaps the above picture of the spire shows the same explosion.
I thought you were referring to the puffs on the buckled floors of the south tower as it tilted and started to collapse. My error. The explanation I gave was for that, not the spire.
The spire feature must have had a lot of dust on it already. Some of that would have gotten shaken off as it collapsed. It does give the impression of it disintegrating, but metal doesn't disintegrate. It was oscillating quite a bit in the video. Likely the bolts at the column splices fractured from the stress and it simply fell down.
The core wasn't made to take lateral stesses. That's why there were dampers to allow the perimeter to bend without bending the core.
I have heard this so many times from the disinformation group. Were are the lateral stresses coming from?
What makes cars explode???? I am at a loss to explain this.
(: hereward
What makes cars explode?
Duh
Its called a GAS TANK.
But the fact is, virtually all the pictures are simply burned out vehicles.
They are burned out because there was almost no attempt made to put out the fires.
Because the people who could were:
A) Dead
B ) had no equipment
C) had equipment but no water pressure
D) worried about more important things, like finding their friends or finding fresh air
Arthur
Brought to you from INSULTINGLY STUPID MOVIE PHYSICS
Ever notice how cars in movies always burst into flames the instant they collide with anything? Our favorite is when a car falling from a high place explodes the instant before it hits the ground. It's as though its gas tank gets panicky and detonates at the mere thought of striking Earth. Fortunately, the physics are not so cooperative.
Gasoline has a very narrow flammable range of about 1.4 to 7.6% gasoline vapor in air 2. In other words, the vapor-air mixture must be exactly as specified or the gas will not burn, let alone explode! Note that we say vapor. Liquid gasoline must change into vapor before it can burn (although this is no huge problem since it easily vaporizes).
For a car to explode during impact the tank must catastrophically rupture and spew a fine mist of gasoline over a large area so it can vaporize and mix with air in exactly the right proportions. The mixture must then find a source of ignition. Automobile gas tanks are built to withstand a considerable impact force and are usually located in a protected area between the beams of a car's frame. Common ignition sources in the car's engine are generally at the other end of the vehicle.
As portrayed in movies, gasoline tanks are fragile and gasoline so volatile that the vaporizing and mixing process occurs in milliseconds. It always results in an explosive mixture which always finds a source of ignition. Thank heavens it's not so easy or people would regularly be blowing themselves up while refueling at the pump.
Even when a wrecked car catches on fire it rarely explodes. A gas tank can explode if it contains an explosive mixture and there's an opening for the flames to enter. More likely, fire would have to impinge on the outside of the gas tank, vaporizing the gasoline in the tank and eventually causing it to overpressure and explode. However, if the vapors escaped fast enough the tank would not rupture. Most fires start in the engine compartment and will not spread backwards to the gas tank area unless the tank is leaking fuel on the ground. Again a whole series of events has to be just right for an explosion to occur.
Although it's actually quite rare, exploding cars are a common excuse for not wearing seat belts. Onlookers at crash sites are often so concerned about explosions that they unnecessarily jeopardize a person with a spinal injury by pulling them out of a wrecked car. The common Hollywood depiction fuels these harmful misconceptions.
Excellent post guest, why don’t you register? Reminds me of :
The NBC Fuel tank hoax.
NBC news did a story on side mounted fuel tanks on GM trucks.
The claim of the story was that when such a truck was struck, it would burst into flames. GM insisted that it's side mounted truck fuel tanks were more than sturdy enough to survive the average traffic collision.
NBC produced and aired a video segment that showed a vehicle colliding with the side fuel tank of a GM truck at low speed, and the GM fuel tank exploded.
It later turned out that the fuel tank had been rigged with explosive devices by NBC to manufacture the explosion seen in their news report!
TIME article on the NBC hoax.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/LIE/nbc.html
QUOTE (newton+Mar 11 2006, 05:15 PM)
and yet, it begins to tip, and then falls straight down. really quickly.
when you watch the rick siegel video of it, you can see a puff of dust(a 'puff' which is probably a story high) which initiates the tipping.
i think perhaps the above picture of the spire shows the same explosion.
I thought you were referring to the puffs on the buckled floors of the south tower as it tilted and started to collapse. My error. The explanation I gave was for that, not the spire.
The spire feature must have had a lot of dust on it already. Some of that would have gotten shaken off as it collapsed. It does give the impression of it disintegrating, but metal doesn't disintegrate. It was oscillating quite a bit in the video. Likely the bolts at the column splices fractured from the stress and it simply fell down.
The core wasn't made to take lateral stesses. That's why there were dampers to allow the perimeter to bend without bending the core.
The core wasn't made to take lateral stesses. That's why there were dampers to allow the perimeter to bend without bending the core.
The dampers were to stop you throwing up due to seasickness.
Gordon.
The dampers were to stop you throwing up due to seasickness.
Gordon.
QUOTE (shagster+Mar 12 2006, 09:37 AM)
QUOTE (newton+Mar 11 2006, 05:15 PM)
and yet, it begins to tip, and then falls straight down. really quickly.
when you watch the rick siegel video of it, you can see a puff of dust(a 'puff' which is probably a story high) which initiates the tipping.
i think perhaps the above picture of the spire shows the same explosion.
I thought you were referring to the puffs on the buckled floors of the south tower as it tilted and started to collapse. My error. The explanation I gave was for that, not the spire.
The spire feature must have had a lot of dust on it already. Some of that would have gotten shaken off as it collapsed. It does give the impression of it disintegrating, but metal doesn't disintegrate. It was oscillating quite a bit in the video. Likely the bolts at the column splices fractured from the stress and it simply fell down.
The core wasn't made to take lateral stesses. That's why there were dampers to allow the perimeter to bend without bending the core.
I have heard this so many times from the disinformation group. Were are the lateral stresses coming from?
30 US Reps for Bush Impeachment Inquiry
March 11, 2006
Atlanta Progressive News
30 US Reps for Bush Impeachment Inquiry
1. APN Interviews Conyers, Swanson, and Goodman
By Matthew Cardinale, Editor, Atlanta Progressive News (March 10, 2006)
(APN) ATLANTA – 30 US House Representatives have signed on as sponsors or co-sponsors of H. Res 635, which would create a Select Committee to look into the grounds for recommending President Bush’s impeachment, Atlanta Progressive News has learned.
“There has been massive support for House Resolution 635 from a very vigorous network of grassroots activists and people committed to holding the Bush Administration accountable for its widespread abuses of power,” US Rep. John Conyers (D-MI) said in a statement prepared for Atlanta Progressive News.
The Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR) also released a book, Articles of Impeachment Against President Bush. The Center is extremely influential in high-profile court fights over issues such as wiretapping, the treatment of detainees by the US, and felon voting rights....
"I am taking steps against the Bush Administration’s handling of the Iraq War and its warrantless wiretapping. I am going to need you to stand with me in fighting for accountability."
-Congressman John Conyers, Jr.
“I have a Citizen Co-sponsorship page on my website, http://johnconyers.com , where over 42,000 people have added their names to the 30 Members of Congress calling for the creation of a special committee to investigate possible impeachable offenses. My website also has a form for people to write a letter-to-the-editor for their local newspaper. It is grassroots activity like this, and the efforts of thousands of others, that has led to greater awareness of and support for my resolution,” Rep. Conyers told Atlanta Progressive News.
March 11, 2006
Atlanta Progressive News
30 US Reps for Bush Impeachment Inquiry
1. APN Interviews Conyers, Swanson, and Goodman
By Matthew Cardinale, Editor, Atlanta Progressive News (March 10, 2006)
(APN) ATLANTA – 30 US House Representatives have signed on as sponsors or co-sponsors of H. Res 635, which would create a Select Committee to look into the grounds for recommending President Bush’s impeachment, Atlanta Progressive News has learned.
“There has been massive support for House Resolution 635 from a very vigorous network of grassroots activists and people committed to holding the Bush Administration accountable for its widespread abuses of power,” US Rep. John Conyers (D-MI) said in a statement prepared for Atlanta Progressive News.
The Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR) also released a book, Articles of Impeachment Against President Bush. The Center is extremely influential in high-profile court fights over issues such as wiretapping, the treatment of detainees by the US, and felon voting rights....
"I am taking steps against the Bush Administration’s handling of the Iraq War and its warrantless wiretapping. I am going to need you to stand with me in fighting for accountability."
-Congressman John Conyers, Jr.
“I have a Citizen Co-sponsorship page on my website, http://johnconyers.com , where over 42,000 people have added their names to the 30 Members of Congress calling for the creation of a special committee to investigate possible impeachable offenses. My website also has a form for people to write a letter-to-the-editor for their local newspaper. It is grassroots activity like this, and the efforts of thousands of others, that has led to greater awareness of and support for my resolution,” Rep. Conyers told Atlanta Progressive News.
The spire didn't stand much of a chance of standing on its own indefinately. It will lean or oscillate. That will put stresses on the splices and fracture bolts or welds. The splices were made to take compressive stresses.
I added a white line to the pic indicating where the far corner of the tower would be. I went over the the right of the left corner an equal number of pixels as determined from the spacing of corners on the south side. That's valid since the pic was taken from a large distance away.
The single column spire feature doesn't match up with the perimeter corner. Also, those columns that form the spire are very large. They look small from a distance, but they are actually thick.
The single column spire feature doesn't match up with the perimeter corner. Also, those columns that form the spire are very large. They look small from a distance, but they are actually thick.
QUOTE (911truthbristolcom+Mar 12 2006, 11:17 AM)
well said and if you don't believe it then that is to do with any research into the subject
Check out this info below for necessary links
As a core member of the UK and Ireland 911 Truth Campaign what I say here is backed up by the likes of former MI5 officer David Shayler, authors Ian Henshall, Rowland Morgan, Nafeez Ahmed etc – see http://nineeleven.co.uk.
There is no longer any debate. 911 was an inside job – the evidence was overwhelming years ago. Please don’t take my word for it – do your own reading/watching - there are dozens of good books and films let alone the many websites. There are even peer reviewed scientific papers now. If you have yet to see a film regarding 911 (Fahrenheit 911 does not count) then I recommend Loose Change 2.
There is no point in arguing with those who haven’t accessed the relevant information. How people can argue an opinion based on little or no information has always bemused me. The fact is that no one ever argues once they’ve seen the evidence. If the truth is, that you simply just don’t wanna know then don’t be dismissive – just leave this thread and go and read something a bit cossier.
Sticking to the music, Eminem, Mos Def, Paris, Braintax, Public Enemy, Dead Prez, Immortal Technique, Photek, Blackout (Bristol dnb) are but a few artists that are now understanding the 911 ‘conspiracy’. It’s been pretty much mainstream knowledge for at least a year now and if you’re still in denial after watching some of the films below then you probably always will be.
There is a high likelihood of a war on Iran in the near future. It is imperative that you understand how the war on terror has been manufactured as part of a pretext for wars of aggression in the Middle East and the loss of civil freedoms here at home.
Remember there categorically were no wmd in Iraq and our top politicians fed the public false information over and over – tens of thousands of people have died. Ask yourself – who benefits?
Most of you, I’m sure realise, the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are about controlling the world’s energy resources. The blueprint was laid out by the Neocons in the Project for the New American Century pre 911 – it doesn’t stop at Iraq.
“The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don’t do anything about it.” ~ Albert Einstein
Adrian Connock
http://officialconfusion.com
Local press coverage
9/11 'THE WORK OF SECURITY CHIEFS'
Bristol Evening Post
Recent mainstream news article
Experts Call for Release of 9/11 Evidence
Yahoo newswire
HERE ARE A FEW 911 LINKS – mainly streaming video
Analysis of the attack on the twin towers and the Pentagon:
Loose Change (2nd Edition) Contains animations of the attack on the Pentagon and a very thorough analysis of both the attacks on WTC and the Pentagon:
Loose Change 2nd Edition
Martial Law – Alex Jones. Out of the ashes of the September 11th tragedy, a dark empire of war and tyranny has risen. The Constitution has been shredded and America is now a Police State. This film exposes not just who was behind the 9-11 attacks, but the roots and history of its orchestration.
Martial Law 9/11 - Rise of the Police State:
Face the Facts – 911truthbristol.com – a punchy to the point 45 minute overview of the key 911 issues. Plus links to other 911 related films, which give the viewer a wider understanding of state sponsored terror and the manufacturing of war for profit and power. Face the Facts
Guerilla News Network Aftermath: 911 Unanswered Questions Highlighting the inconsistencies with protocol on 911 and the motives behind elements of the US government orchestrating the attacks.
Painful Deceptions - This video deals with pretty much, every unanswered question surrounding the attacks. Painful Deceptions - An analysis of the September 11th Attack
This recent presentation by Dr. Steven Jones (Department of Physics and Astronomy - Brigham Young University) is primarily focused on the collapses of World Trade Center 1, 2, and 7 on 9/11.
9/11 Revisited: Scientific and Ethical Questions
Here are the related documents that go along with this presentation:
Jones's research 'white paper'
Steven Jones has joined: Scholars for 9/11 Truth
Acoustic profile of the explosives used to bring down the towers. Recorded by an eyewitness, who filmed the entire attack from peer 51. This video contains footage you can't find anywhere else.
911 Eyewitness
There are some who maintain that the mythical 9/11 hijackers, although proven to be too incompetent to fly a little Cessna 172, had acquired the impressive skills that enabled them to fly airliners by training in flight simulators. Nila Sagadevan is an aeronautical engineer and a qualified pilot. Here he explains how the maneuvers Hani Hanjour had to go through to reach the Pentagon are virtually impossible.
The Impossibility of Flying Heavy Aircraft Without Training
About suspicious events on the stock market up to 911
Ever since the attacks on the World Trade towers and the Pentagon, disturbing questions have been raised about the possible involvement of some parts of the U.S. security apparatus or Administration. These questions have been supported by extensive circumstantial evidence and has been investigated by several U.S. Congressional Committees. Furthermore, the U.S. media have reported on the well known relationship which exists between President George W. Bush, the Carlyle Group, several oil companies and the Bin Laden Family.
Former narcotics investigator Mike Ruppert was forced out of the LAPD in 1977 when he exposed evidence of drug trafficking by the CIA. The Truth & Lies of 9-11 is a filmed lecture at Portland State University, where Ruppert uses only government documents, official statements and press reports as the basis of his investigative work. This pioneering, groundbreaking expose of 9-11, now two years old, paints a stark and accurate picture of our world today and tomorrow.
Truth and Lies of 911
Debunking the Kean commission report about 911
David Ray Griffin explains PNAC and the neocon's dream about an American empire in relation to 911
911 and the American Empire
Here he literally debunks the entire report as a 170 page lie:
The 911 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions
Specifically about 9/11 in relation to PNAC (Project for the New American Century)
Was 9/11 more than just an attack? Could the Bush administration have had anything to gain from the attack? Two prominent European politicians, Michael Meacher and Andreas von Bülow, express their serious doubts about the official version of the 9/11 story.
Attack or Godsend
Alternative link:Attack or Godsend
About the media as complicit in the cover-up of 9/11
This is a ground-breaking 44-minute video by Barrie Zwicker. He was the first mainstream journalist in the world to go on air (in January 2002) and ask hard questions about the official story of 9/11. He analyses the use of fear to befuddle the public. He deconstructs the so-called "war on terrorism". He examines in depth the failure of the military on 9/11 and George Bush's highly inappropriate behaviour that day. He finds the 9/11 Commission to be a total cover-up operation. Throughout, he analyses the role of the mainstream media as complicit in keeping the public massively misinformed and befuddled.
The 911 news special you never saw
Perspective on 9-11 excerpts the portion of Painful Deceptions that covers the collapse of Building 7 -- which includes five videos of the Building 7's implosion Jenkins combines the best parts of the work of others, sticks to substantial evidence, and frames the presentation of that evidence in a historical context that facilitates its objective examination.
Perspective on 9/11
Download links to most videos listed above
http://www.question911.com/links.php
Links to high resolution XviD's and DivX: Conspiracy Central (Searched on 911). You will have to sign up HERE to see the download links and you need a bit torrent client to download them
Other Documentation for those who wants to check the facts for themselves:
911 data archives
Truth Bristol 911 links
NIST report:
http://wtc.nist.gov/reports_october05.htm
Comments from other experts on this report:
http://wtc.nist.gov/wtc_public_comments.htm
Eyewitness testimonies:
http://www.mjbarkl.com/locked.htm
911 reading room:
http://911readingroom.org/bib/
Pictures, reports, articles etc.
http://911research.wtc7.net/
Precedents, motives and a history of bankers raping nations with artificial inflation to throw them into war
THE MONEY MASTERS is a 3 1/2 hour non-fiction, historical documentary that traces the origins of the political power structure that rules our nation and the world today. The modern political power structure has its roots in the hidden manipulation and accumulation of gold and other forms of money. The development of fractional reserve banking practices in the 17th century brought to a cunning sophistication the secret techniques initially used by goldsmiths fraudulently to accumulate wealth. With the formation of the privately-owned Bank of England in 1694, the yoke of economic slavery to a privately-owned "central" bank was first forced upon the backs of an entire nation, not removed but only made heavier with the passing of the three centuries to our day. Nation after nation, including America, has fallen prey to this cabal of international central bankers. Info: http://www.themoneymasters.com/
The Money Masters 1 of 3
The Money Masters 2 of 3
The Money Masters 3 of 3
Loose change is a video made by 22 year old media enthusiast who lie. The proof is the timer which stops collapse at 10:09 when the perimeter columns fall and not the whole building. The building is at about the 40th floor when it diapears in the debris cloud. More evidence of thier lies is the quotes taken out of context saying people heard explosions. Yes they heard explosions but they also said they didn't know the buildings were falling at the time.
http://www.geocities.com/debunking911/
Now why would they have to lie in order to make thier case? They have no case, that's why.
Check out this info below for necessary links
As a core member of the UK and Ireland 911 Truth Campaign what I say here is backed up by the likes of former MI5 officer David Shayler, authors Ian Henshall, Rowland Morgan, Nafeez Ahmed etc – see http://nineeleven.co.uk.
There is no longer any debate. 911 was an inside job – the evidence was overwhelming years ago. Please don’t take my word for it – do your own reading/watching - there are dozens of good books and films let alone the many websites. There are even peer reviewed scientific papers now. If you have yet to see a film regarding 911 (Fahrenheit 911 does not count) then I recommend Loose Change 2.
There is no point in arguing with those who haven’t accessed the relevant information. How people can argue an opinion based on little or no information has always bemused me. The fact is that no one ever argues once they’ve seen the evidence. If the truth is, that you simply just don’t wanna know then don’t be dismissive – just leave this thread and go and read something a bit cossier.
Sticking to the music, Eminem, Mos Def, Paris, Braintax, Public Enemy, Dead Prez, Immortal Technique, Photek, Blackout (Bristol dnb) are but a few artists that are now understanding the 911 ‘conspiracy’. It’s been pretty much mainstream knowledge for at least a year now and if you’re still in denial after watching some of the films below then you probably always will be.
There is a high likelihood of a war on Iran in the near future. It is imperative that you understand how the war on terror has been manufactured as part of a pretext for wars of aggression in the Middle East and the loss of civil freedoms here at home.
Remember there categorically were no wmd in Iraq and our top politicians fed the public false information over and over – tens of thousands of people have died. Ask yourself – who benefits?
Most of you, I’m sure realise, the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are about controlling the world’s energy resources. The blueprint was laid out by the Neocons in the Project for the New American Century pre 911 – it doesn’t stop at Iraq.
“The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don’t do anything about it.” ~ Albert Einstein
Adrian Connock
http://officialconfusion.com
Local press coverage
9/11 'THE WORK OF SECURITY CHIEFS'
Bristol Evening Post
Recent mainstream news article
Experts Call for Release of 9/11 Evidence
Yahoo newswire
HERE ARE A FEW 911 LINKS – mainly streaming video
Analysis of the attack on the twin towers and the Pentagon:
Loose Change (2nd Edition) Contains animations of the attack on the Pentagon and a very thorough analysis of both the attacks on WTC and the Pentagon:
Loose Change 2nd Edition
Martial Law – Alex Jones. Out of the ashes of the September 11th tragedy, a dark empire of war and tyranny has risen. The Constitution has been shredded and America is now a Police State. This film exposes not just who was behind the 9-11 attacks, but the roots and history of its orchestration.
Martial Law 9/11 - Rise of the Police State:
Face the Facts – 911truthbristol.com – a punchy to the point 45 minute overview of the key 911 issues. Plus links to other 911 related films, which give the viewer a wider understanding of state sponsored terror and the manufacturing of war for profit and power. Face the Facts
Guerilla News Network Aftermath: 911 Unanswered Questions Highlighting the inconsistencies with protocol on 911 and the motives behind elements of the US government orchestrating the attacks.
Painful Deceptions - This video deals with pretty much, every unanswered question surrounding the attacks. Painful Deceptions - An analysis of the September 11th Attack
This recent presentation by Dr. Steven Jones (Department of Physics and Astronomy - Brigham Young University) is primarily focused on the collapses of World Trade Center 1, 2, and 7 on 9/11.
9/11 Revisited: Scientific and Ethical Questions
Here are the related documents that go along with this presentation:
Jones's research 'white paper'
Steven Jones has joined: Scholars for 9/11 Truth
Acoustic profile of the explosives used to bring down the towers. Recorded by an eyewitness, who filmed the entire attack from peer 51. This video contains footage you can't find anywhere else.
911 Eyewitness
There are some who maintain that the mythical 9/11 hijackers, although proven to be too incompetent to fly a little Cessna 172, had acquired the impressive skills that enabled them to fly airliners by training in flight simulators. Nila Sagadevan is an aeronautical engineer and a qualified pilot. Here he explains how the maneuvers Hani Hanjour had to go through to reach the Pentagon are virtually impossible.
The Impossibility of Flying Heavy Aircraft Without Training
About suspicious events on the stock market up to 911
Ever since the attacks on the World Trade towers and the Pentagon, disturbing questions have been raised about the possible involvement of some parts of the U.S. security apparatus or Administration. These questions have been supported by extensive circumstantial evidence and has been investigated by several U.S. Congressional Committees. Furthermore, the U.S. media have reported on the well known relationship which exists between President George W. Bush, the Carlyle Group, several oil companies and the Bin Laden Family.
Former narcotics investigator Mike Ruppert was forced out of the LAPD in 1977 when he exposed evidence of drug trafficking by the CIA. The Truth & Lies of 9-11 is a filmed lecture at Portland State University, where Ruppert uses only government documents, official statements and press reports as the basis of his investigative work. This pioneering, groundbreaking expose of 9-11, now two years old, paints a stark and accurate picture of our world today and tomorrow.
Truth and Lies of 911
Debunking the Kean commission report about 911
David Ray Griffin explains PNAC and the neocon's dream about an American empire in relation to 911
911 and the American Empire
Here he literally debunks the entire report as a 170 page lie:
The 911 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions
Specifically about 9/11 in relation to PNAC (Project for the New American Century)
Was 9/11 more than just an attack? Could the Bush administration have had anything to gain from the attack? Two prominent European politicians, Michael Meacher and Andreas von Bülow, express their serious doubts about the official version of the 9/11 story.
Attack or Godsend
Alternative link:Attack or Godsend
About the media as complicit in the cover-up of 9/11
This is a ground-breaking 44-minute video by Barrie Zwicker. He was the first mainstream journalist in the world to go on air (in January 2002) and ask hard questions about the official story of 9/11. He analyses the use of fear to befuddle the public. He deconstructs the so-called "war on terrorism". He examines in depth the failure of the military on 9/11 and George Bush's highly inappropriate behaviour that day. He finds the 9/11 Commission to be a total cover-up operation. Throughout, he analyses the role of the mainstream media as complicit in keeping the public massively misinformed and befuddled.
The 911 news special you never saw
Perspective on 9-11 excerpts the portion of Painful Deceptions that covers the collapse of Building 7 -- which includes five videos of the Building 7's implosion Jenkins combines the best parts of the work of others, sticks to substantial evidence, and frames the presentation of that evidence in a historical context that facilitates its objective examination.
Perspective on 9/11
Download links to most videos listed above
http://www.question911.com/links.php
Links to high resolution XviD's and DivX: Conspiracy Central (Searched on 911). You will have to sign up HERE to see the download links and you need a bit torrent client to download them
Other Documentation for those who wants to check the facts for themselves:
911 data archives
Truth Bristol 911 links
NIST report:
http://wtc.nist.gov/reports_october05.htm
Comments from other experts on this report:
http://wtc.nist.gov/wtc_public_comments.htm
Eyewitness testimonies:
http://www.mjbarkl.com/locked.htm
911 reading room:
http://911readingroom.org/bib/
Pictures, reports, articles etc.
http://911research.wtc7.net/
Precedents, motives and a history of bankers raping nations with artificial inflation to throw them into war
THE MONEY MASTERS is a 3 1/2 hour non-fiction, historical documentary that traces the origins of the political power structure that rules our nation and the world today. The modern political power structure has its roots in the hidden manipulation and accumulation of gold and other forms of money. The development of fractional reserve banking practices in the 17th century brought to a cunning sophistication the secret techniques initially used by goldsmiths fraudulently to accumulate wealth. With the formation of the privately-owned Bank of England in 1694, the yoke of economic slavery to a privately-owned "central" bank was first forced upon the backs of an entire nation, not removed but only made heavier with the passing of the three centuries to our day. Nation after nation, including America, has fallen prey to this cabal of international central bankers. Info: http://www.themoneymasters.com/
The Money Masters 1 of 3
The Money Masters 2 of 3
The Money Masters 3 of 3
Loose change is a video made by 22 year old media enthusiast who lie. The proof is the timer which stops collapse at 10:09 when the perimeter columns fall and not the whole building. The building is at about the 40th floor when it diapears in the debris cloud. More evidence of thier lies is the quotes taken out of context saying people heard explosions. Yes they heard explosions but they also said they didn't know the buildings were falling at the time.
http://www.geocities.com/debunking911/
Now why would they have to lie in order to make thier case? They have no case, that's why.
QUOTE (shagster+Mar 12 2006, 10:20 AM)
The spire didn't stand much of a chance of standing on its own indefinately. It will lean or oscillate. That will put stresses on the splices and fracture bolts or welds. The splices were made to take compressive stresses.
It will lean or oscillate from what? If you say a hurricane I can understand but 9/11 was a calm day. You cant just pull these forces out of thin air like RC and Con-men Sence.
Are you suggesting a new weapon that causes a structure to oscillate until collapse?
It will lean or oscillate from what? If you say a hurricane I can understand but 9/11 was a calm day. You cant just pull these forces out of thin air like RC and Con-men Sence.
Are you suggesting a new weapon that causes a structure to oscillate until collapse?
QUOTE (Guest+Mar 12 2006, 11:25 AM)
QUOTE (Commen sense+Mar 12 2006, 03:37 AM)
QUOTE (Guest+Mar 12 2006, 03:19 AM)
QUOTE (adoucette+Mar 12 2006, 01:41 AM)
When I'm gone from this Earth I SINCERELY hope that I'm talked about for as long and as often as the CT'ers have talked about Schneibster since he's been gone.
Threatening to axe someone you disagree with on a public physics forum does tend to leave a lasting impression. Wouldn't you agree? No?
I guess if your stupid enough to to think he could go through the monitor...
Did I forget to add the "I will hunt you down" part. So sorry. It says a lot about the murderer car that this guy is their hero for whom they feel such an obligation to come to his defense.
I forgot to add "If you're stupid enough to think it's easy to hunt someone down on an internet forum or go through the monitor.."
If you're that stupid then stop posting or I'm going to hunt you down, slice your back open and through salt in the wound.
Lets see how effective this threat is. Heh!
Threatening to axe someone you disagree with on a public physics forum does tend to leave a lasting impression. Wouldn't you agree? No?
I guess if your stupid enough to to think he could go through the monitor...
Did I forget to add the "I will hunt you down" part. So sorry. It says a lot about the murderer car that this guy is their hero for whom they feel such an obligation to come to his defense.
I forgot to add "If you're stupid enough to think it's easy to hunt someone down on an internet forum or go through the monitor.."
If you're that stupid then stop posting or I'm going to hunt you down, slice your back open and through salt in the wound.
Lets see how effective this threat is. Heh!
QUOTE (Commen sense+Mar 12 2006, 06:28 PM)
QUOTE (911truthbristolcom+Mar 12 2006, 11:17 AM)
well said and if you don't believe it then that is to do with any research into the subject
Check out this info below for necessary links
As a core member of the UK and Ireland 911 Truth Campaign what I say here is backed up by the likes of former MI5 officer David Shayler, authors Ian Henshall, Rowland Morgan, Nafeez Ahmed etc – see http://nineeleven.co.uk.
There is no longer any debate. 911 was an inside job – the evidence was overwhelming years ago. Please don’t take my word for it – do your own reading/watching - there are dozens of good books and films let alone the many websites. There are even peer reviewed scientific papers now. If you have yet to see a film regarding 911 (Fahrenheit 911 does not count) then I recommend Loose Change 2.
There is no point in arguing with those who haven’t accessed the relevant information. How people can argue an opinion based on little or no information has always bemused me. The fact is that no one ever argues once they’ve seen the evidence. If the truth is, that you simply just don’t wanna know then don’t be dismissive – just leave this thread and go and read something a bit cossier.
Sticking to the music, Eminem, Mos Def, Paris, Braintax, Public Enemy, Dead Prez, Immortal Technique, Photek, Blackout (Bristol dnb) are but a few artists that are now understanding the 911 ‘conspiracy’. It’s been pretty much mainstream knowledge for at least a year now and if you’re still in denial after watching some of the films below then you probably always will be.
There is a high likelihood of a war on Iran in the near future. It is imperative that you understand how the war on terror has been manufactured as part of a pretext for wars of aggression in the Middle East and the loss of civil freedoms here at home.
Remember there categorically were no wmd in Iraq and our top politicians fed the public false information over and over – tens of thousands of people have died. Ask yourself – who benefits?
Most of you, I’m sure realise, the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are about controlling the world’s energy resources. The blueprint was laid out by the Neocons in the Project for the New American Century pre 911 – it doesn’t stop at Iraq.
“The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don’t do anything about it.” ~ Albert Einstein
Adrian Connock
http://officialconfusion.com
Local press coverage
9/11 'THE WORK OF SECURITY CHIEFS'
Bristol Evening Post
Recent mainstream news article
Experts Call for Release of 9/11 Evidence
Yahoo newswire
HERE ARE A FEW 911 LINKS – mainly streaming video
Analysis of the attack on the twin towers and the Pentagon:
Loose Change (2nd Edition) Contains animations of the attack on the Pentagon and a very thorough analysis of both the attacks on WTC and the Pentagon:
Loose Change 2nd Edition
Martial Law – Alex Jones. Out of the ashes of the September 11th tragedy, a dark empire of war and tyranny has risen. The Constitution has been shredded and America is now a Police State. This film exposes not just who was behind the 9-11 attacks, but the roots and history of its orchestration.
Martial Law 9/11 - Rise of the Police State:
Face the Facts – 911truthbristol.com – a punchy to the point 45 minute overview of the key 911 issues. Plus links to other 911 related films, which give the viewer a wider understanding of state sponsored terror and the manufacturing of war for profit and power. Face the Facts
Guerilla News Network Aftermath: 911 Unanswered Questions Highlighting the inconsistencies with protocol on 911 and the motives behind elements of the US government orchestrating the attacks.
Painful Deceptions - This video deals with pretty much, every unanswered question surrounding the attacks. Painful Deceptions - An analysis of the September 11th Attack
This recent presentation by Dr. Steven Jones (Department of Physics and Astronomy - Brigham Young University) is primarily focused on the collapses of World Trade Center 1, 2, and 7 on 9/11.
9/11 Revisited: Scientific and Ethical Questions
Here are the related documents that go along with this presentation:
Jones's research 'white paper'
Steven Jones has joined: Scholars for 9/11 Truth
Acoustic profile of the explosives used to bring down the towers. Recorded by an eyewitness, who filmed the entire attack from peer 51. This video contains footage you can't find anywhere else.
911 Eyewitness
There are some who maintain that the mythical 9/11 hijackers, although proven to be too incompetent to fly a little Cessna 172, had acquired the impressive skills that enabled them to fly airliners by training in flight simulators. Nila Sagadevan is an aeronautical engineer and a qualified pilot. Here he explains how the maneuvers Hani Hanjour had to go through to reach the Pentagon are virtually impossible.
The Impossibility of Flying Heavy Aircraft Without Training
About suspicious events on the stock market up to 911
Ever since the attacks on the World Trade towers and the Pentagon, disturbing questions have been raised about the possible involvement of some parts of the U.S. security apparatus or Administration. These questions have been supported by extensive circumstantial evidence and has been investigated by several U.S. Congressional Committees. Furthermore, the U.S. media have reported on the well known relationship which exists between President George W. Bush, the Carlyle Group, several oil companies and the Bin Laden Family.
Former narcotics investigator Mike Ruppert was forced out of the LAPD in 1977 when he exposed evidence of drug trafficking by the CIA. The Truth & Lies of 9-11 is a filmed lecture at Portland State University, where Ruppert uses only government documents, official statements and press reports as the basis of his investigative work. This pioneering, groundbreaking expose of 9-11, now two years old, paints a stark and accurate picture of our world today and tomorrow.
Truth and Lies of 911
Debunking the Kean commission report about 911
David Ray Griffin explains PNAC and the neocon's dream about an American empire in relation to 911
911 and the American Empire
Here he literally debunks the entire report as a 170 page lie:
The 911 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions
Specifically about 9/11 in relation to PNAC (Project for the New American Century)
Was 9/11 more than just an attack? Could the Bush administration have had anything to gain from the attack? Two prominent European politicians, Michael Meacher and Andreas von Bülow, express their serious doubts about the official version of the 9/11 story.
Attack or Godsend
Alternative link:Attack or Godsend
About the media as complicit in the cover-up of 9/11
This is a ground-breaking 44-minute video by Barrie Zwicker. He was the first mainstream journalist in the world to go on air (in January 2002) and ask hard questions about the official story of 9/11. He analyses the use of fear to befuddle the public. He deconstructs the so-called "war on terrorism". He examines in depth the failure of the military on 9/11 and George Bush's highly inappropriate behaviour that day. He finds the 9/11 Commission to be a total cover-up operation. Throughout, he analyses the role of the mainstream media as complicit in keeping the public massively misinformed and befuddled.
The 911 news special you never saw
Perspective on 9-11 excerpts the portion of Painful Deceptions that covers the collapse of Building 7 -- which includes five videos of the Building 7's implosion Jenkins combines the best parts of the work of others, sticks to substantial evidence, and frames the presentation of that evidence in a historical context that facilitates its objective examination.
Perspective on 9/11
Download links to most videos listed above
http://www.question911.com/links.php
Links to high resolution XviD's and DivX: Conspiracy Central (Searched on 911). You will have to sign up HERE to see the download links and you need a bit torrent client to download them
Other Documentation for those who wants to check the facts for themselves:
911 data archives
Truth Bristol 911 links
NIST report:
http://wtc.nist.gov/reports_october05.htm
Comments from other experts on this report:
http://wtc.nist.gov/wtc_public_comments.htm
Eyewitness testimonies:
http://www.mjbarkl.com/locked.htm
911 reading room:
http://911readingroom.org/bib/
Pictures, reports, articles etc.
http://911research.wtc7.net/
Precedents, motives and a history of bankers raping nations with artificial inflation to throw them into war
THE MONEY MASTERS is a 3 1/2 hour non-fiction, historical documentary that traces the origins of the political power structure that rules our nation and the world today. The modern political power structure has its roots in the hidden manipulation and accumulation of gold and other forms of money. The development of fractional reserve banking practices in the 17th century brought to a cunning sophistication the secret techniques initially used by goldsmiths fraudulently to accumulate wealth. With the formation of the privately-owned Bank of England in 1694, the yoke of economic slavery to a privately-owned "central" bank was first forced upon the backs of an entire nation, not removed but only made heavier with the passing of the three centuries to our day. Nation after nation, including America, has fallen prey to this cabal of international central bankers. Info: http://www.themoneymasters.com/
The Money Masters 1 of 3
The Money Masters 2 of 3
The Money Masters 3 of 3
Loose change is a video made by 22 year old media enthusiast who lie. The proof is the timer which stops collapse at 10:09 when the perimeter columns fall and not the whole building. The building is at about the 40th floor when it diapears in the debris cloud. More evidence of thier lies is the quotes taken out of context saying people heard explosions. Yes they heard explosions but they also said they didn't know the buildings were falling at the time.
http://www.geocities.com/debunking911/
Now why would they have to lie in order to make thier case? They have no case, that's why.
common sense. the little boy with his finger in the dike.
that army of researchers and facts presented in the mountain of information above, and you want to talk about some little anomaly.
bush foooking loves you, CS.
the point about the banks is more relevent than anything else there, inho.
Check out this info below for necessary links
As a core member of the UK and Ireland 911 Truth Campaign what I say here is backed up by the likes of former MI5 officer David Shayler, authors Ian Henshall, Rowland Morgan, Nafeez Ahmed etc – see http://nineeleven.co.uk.
There is no longer any debate. 911 was an inside job – the evidence was overwhelming years ago. Please don’t take my word for it – do your own reading/watching - there are dozens of good books and films let alone the many websites. There are even peer reviewed scientific papers now. If you have yet to see a film regarding 911 (Fahrenheit 911 does not count) then I recommend Loose Change 2.
There is no point in arguing with those who haven’t accessed the relevant information. How people can argue an opinion based on little or no information has always bemused me. The fact is that no one ever argues once they’ve seen the evidence. If the truth is, that you simply just don’t wanna know then don’t be dismissive – just leave this thread and go and read something a bit cossier.
Sticking to the music, Eminem, Mos Def, Paris, Braintax, Public Enemy, Dead Prez, Immortal Technique, Photek, Blackout (Bristol dnb) are but a few artists that are now understanding the 911 ‘conspiracy’. It’s been pretty much mainstream knowledge for at least a year now and if you’re still in denial after watching some of the films below then you probably always will be.
There is a high likelihood of a war on Iran in the near future. It is imperative that you understand how the war on terror has been manufactured as part of a pretext for wars of aggression in the Middle East and the loss of civil freedoms here at home.
Remember there categorically were no wmd in Iraq and our top politicians fed the public false information over and over – tens of thousands of people have died. Ask yourself – who benefits?
Most of you, I’m sure realise, the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are about controlling the world’s energy resources. The blueprint was laid out by the Neocons in the Project for the New American Century pre 911 – it doesn’t stop at Iraq.
“The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don’t do anything about it.” ~ Albert Einstein
Adrian Connock
http://officialconfusion.com
Local press coverage
9/11 'THE WORK OF SECURITY CHIEFS'
Bristol Evening Post
Recent mainstream news article
Experts Call for Release of 9/11 Evidence
Yahoo newswire
HERE ARE A FEW 911 LINKS – mainly streaming video
Analysis of the attack on the twin towers and the Pentagon:
Loose Change (2nd Edition) Contains animations of the attack on the Pentagon and a very thorough analysis of both the attacks on WTC and the Pentagon:
Loose Change 2nd Edition
Martial Law – Alex Jones. Out of the ashes of the September 11th tragedy, a dark empire of war and tyranny has risen. The Constitution has been shredded and America is now a Police State. This film exposes not just who was behind the 9-11 attacks, but the roots and history of its orchestration.
Martial Law 9/11 - Rise of the Police State:
Face the Facts – 911truthbristol.com – a punchy to the point 45 minute overview of the key 911 issues. Plus links to other 911 related films, which give the viewer a wider understanding of state sponsored terror and the manufacturing of war for profit and power. Face the Facts
Guerilla News Network Aftermath: 911 Unanswered Questions Highlighting the inconsistencies with protocol on 911 and the motives behind elements of the US government orchestrating the attacks.
Painful Deceptions - This video deals with pretty much, every unanswered question surrounding the attacks. Painful Deceptions - An analysis of the September 11th Attack
This recent presentation by Dr. Steven Jones (Department of Physics and Astronomy - Brigham Young University) is primarily focused on the collapses of World Trade Center 1, 2, and 7 on 9/11.
9/11 Revisited: Scientific and Ethical Questions
Here are the related documents that go along with this presentation:
Jones's research 'white paper'
Steven Jones has joined: Scholars for 9/11 Truth
Acoustic profile of the explosives used to bring down the towers. Recorded by an eyewitness, who filmed the entire attack from peer 51. This video contains footage you can't find anywhere else.
911 Eyewitness
There are some who maintain that the mythical 9/11 hijackers, although proven to be too incompetent to fly a little Cessna 172, had acquired the impressive skills that enabled them to fly airliners by training in flight simulators. Nila Sagadevan is an aeronautical engineer and a qualified pilot. Here he explains how the maneuvers Hani Hanjour had to go through to reach the Pentagon are virtually impossible.
The Impossibility of Flying Heavy Aircraft Without Training
About suspicious events on the stock market up to 911
Ever since the attacks on the World Trade towers and the Pentagon, disturbing questions have been raised about the possible involvement of some parts of the U.S. security apparatus or Administration. These questions have been supported by extensive circumstantial evidence and has been investigated by several U.S. Congressional Committees. Furthermore, the U.S. media have reported on the well known relationship which exists between President George W. Bush, the Carlyle Group, several oil companies and the Bin Laden Family.
Former narcotics investigator Mike Ruppert was forced out of the LAPD in 1977 when he exposed evidence of drug trafficking by the CIA. The Truth & Lies of 9-11 is a filmed lecture at Portland State University, where Ruppert uses only government documents, official statements and press reports as the basis of his investigative work. This pioneering, groundbreaking expose of 9-11, now two years old, paints a stark and accurate picture of our world today and tomorrow.
Truth and Lies of 911
Debunking the Kean commission report about 911
David Ray Griffin explains PNAC and the neocon's dream about an American empire in relation to 911
911 and the American Empire
Here he literally debunks the entire report as a 170 page lie:
The 911 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions
Specifically about 9/11 in relation to PNAC (Project for the New American Century)
Was 9/11 more than just an attack? Could the Bush administration have had anything to gain from the attack? Two prominent European politicians, Michael Meacher and Andreas von Bülow, express their serious doubts about the official version of the 9/11 story.
Attack or Godsend
Alternative link:Attack or Godsend
About the media as complicit in the cover-up of 9/11
This is a ground-breaking 44-minute video by Barrie Zwicker. He was the first mainstream journalist in the world to go on air (in January 2002) and ask hard questions about the official story of 9/11. He analyses the use of fear to befuddle the public. He deconstructs the so-called "war on terrorism". He examines in depth the failure of the military on 9/11 and George Bush's highly inappropriate behaviour that day. He finds the 9/11 Commission to be a total cover-up operation. Throughout, he analyses the role of the mainstream media as complicit in keeping the public massively misinformed and befuddled.
The 911 news special you never saw
Perspective on 9-11 excerpts the portion of Painful Deceptions that covers the collapse of Building 7 -- which includes five videos of the Building 7's implosion Jenkins combines the best parts of the work of others, sticks to substantial evidence, and frames the presentation of that evidence in a historical context that facilitates its objective examination.
Perspective on 9/11
Download links to most videos listed above
http://www.question911.com/links.php
Links to high resolution XviD's and DivX: Conspiracy Central (Searched on 911). You will have to sign up HERE to see the download links and you need a bit torrent client to download them
Other Documentation for those who wants to check the facts for themselves:
911 data archives
Truth Bristol 911 links
NIST report:
http://wtc.nist.gov/reports_october05.htm
Comments from other experts on this report:
http://wtc.nist.gov/wtc_public_comments.htm
Eyewitness testimonies:
http://www.mjbarkl.com/locked.htm
911 reading room:
http://911readingroom.org/bib/
Pictures, reports, articles etc.
http://911research.wtc7.net/
Precedents, motives and a history of bankers raping nations with artificial inflation to throw them into war
THE MONEY MASTERS is a 3 1/2 hour non-fiction, historical documentary that traces the origins of the political power structure that rules our nation and the world today. The modern political power structure has its roots in the hidden manipulation and accumulation of gold and other forms of money. The development of fractional reserve banking practices in the 17th century brought to a cunning sophistication the secret techniques initially used by goldsmiths fraudulently to accumulate wealth. With the formation of the privately-owned Bank of England in 1694, the yoke of economic slavery to a privately-owned "central" bank was first forced upon the backs of an entire nation, not removed but only made heavier with the passing of the three centuries to our day. Nation after nation, including America, has fallen prey to this cabal of international central bankers. Info: http://www.themoneymasters.com/
The Money Masters 1 of 3
The Money Masters 2 of 3
The Money Masters 3 of 3
Loose change is a video made by 22 year old media enthusiast who lie. The proof is the timer which stops collapse at 10:09 when the perimeter columns fall and not the whole building. The building is at about the 40th floor when it diapears in the debris cloud. More evidence of thier lies is the quotes taken out of context saying people heard explosions. Yes they heard explosions but they also said they didn't know the buildings were falling at the time.
http://www.geocities.com/debunking911/
Now why would they have to lie in order to make thier case? They have no case, that's why.
common sense. the little boy with his finger in the dike.
that army of researchers and facts presented in the mountain of information above, and you want to talk about some little anomaly.
bush foooking loves you, CS.
the point about the banks is more relevent than anything else there, inho.
QUOTE (newton+Mar 12 2006, 11:40 AM)
when the perpetrators are in jail, EVERYONE will make money by not having all their tax dollars and public assets funneled into the hands of the neocon crone army.
there are no democrats, common sense. have you not seen enough pictures of kang(bush) and kodos(clinton) holding hands?
you're not a satanist, are you? or a 'texas longhorns' fan?
And why wouldn't a CTer think the world is against him? It follows partanoid people will always think like paranoid people.
Your best hopes lay with the democrats because if you thin out the vote again you will never get enough democrats in congress to push for an investigation. But then working for Rove you should know this already...
Who are you going to hang your hope on? The green party taking over in 2006??? HAHAHA! Moron..
there are no democrats, common sense. have you not seen enough pictures of kang(bush) and kodos(clinton) holding hands?
you're not a satanist, are you? or a 'texas longhorns' fan?
And why wouldn't a CTer think the world is against him? It follows partanoid people will always think like paranoid people.
Your best hopes lay with the democrats because if you thin out the vote again you will never get enough democrats in congress to push for an investigation. But then working for Rove you should know this already...
Who are you going to hang your hope on? The green party taking over in 2006??? HAHAHA! Moron..
QUOTE (RealityCheck+Mar 12 2006, 05:38 AM)
QUOTE (metamars+Mar 12 2006, 04:50 AM)
QUOTE (gordon+Mar 12 2006, 04:36 AM)
YET ANOTHER BLUNDEROUS OMISSION IN HIS SO-CALLED 'ANALYSES' WHICH IMPRESS YOU SO MUCH?
I must have missed that bit. Perhaps you could fill me in on just one point that you have made which doen't ramble on about drivel that has little or nothing to do with the subject with the odd adjective or verb thrown in just because you have heard it somewhere on your troubleshooting/varied /groundbreaking/(insert more blowhard egobosting words here) history and think that you will sound good to some other no-mark who is similarly clueless.
Let's be clear here. An education in a subject also confers the ability to assess the knowledge of others.
Gordon.
Thank-you. I was about to waste more time answering "Reality Check's" nonsense and obfuscation, but you have saved me the time.
I might add: take a representative sample of Gordon's posts, and a representative sample of "Reality Check's" posts, to ANY physicist or engineer at a local university, and ask a simple question:
Which is written by a technically competent person, and which is drivel?
Do be kind enough to post the responses you get, properly sourced, of course.
Metamars, I'm sure even YOU could randomly put together impressive-looking equations and numbers and terms STRAIGHT OUT OF A TEXTBOOK....while not understanding AT ALL THEIR MEANING AND OR USAGE IN ANY WAY.
The important thing is COMPREHENSION, not mindless COPYING AND PASTING some totally erroneous textbook terms to 'dress up' totally incompetent analysis constructs.
Haven't you learnt ANYTHING from the debacle with Jones and Hoffman et al? THEY ARE SUPPOSED PROFESSORS, FOR GOODNESS' SAKE...and look at the hash THEY made of the 'equations/figures', heh? Wake up and smell reality....numbers and equations are no substitute for objective observation and logical comprehension. HOW DO YOU THINK ALL THOSE EQUATIONS AND PRINCIPLES GOT FIGURED OUT IN THE FIRST PLACE?...it was those observations and logical comprehensions that allowed mathematical constructs to be created/refined TO REPRESENT THAT REALITY BEING LOGICALLY COMPREHENDED IN THE FIRST PLACE BY 'SCIENTIFIC METHOD' OBSERVATION and later REPRODUCTION VIA MATHEMATICAL REPRESENTATIONS OF SAME.
Have you learned anything from that? If nothing else, take away the point that 'numbers' mean NOTHING without comprehension and context (statistics/survey constructs/analyses are PERFECT examples where the truth is NOT ALWAYS in the NUMBERS, but in the CONTEXT). And in the case of 9/11, the physics is in context only insofar as it can be demonstrated to be 'prosaic' and everyday processes/principles involved in EXTRAORDINARILY CHAOTIC AND HUMONGOUS DYNAMICS.
Once you accept that a lot of things could be happening all over the place during that chaos, then you probably won't feel so much need to invoke space lasers and space aliens and 'mysterious energy' flows. Common sense will do the job.
Lame. Your continued avoidance of even any attempt to be precise, when you could be (that is, if you really are a "scientist", with expertise or even basic knowledge in physics and chemistry), strikes me as nothing more than a way to avoid being shown up for the spewer of drivel that you are.
And, as you have been shown to be a spewer of drivel even in a qualitative way, I don't believe for a second that you are a scientist.
I note, once again, that NIST and FEMA eschewed your "wonderful insights" for the relevance of chaos theory in understanding the collapses. Even in a mumbo jumbo, non-technical way that you specialize in, where it difficult to say where and how, exactly, your thinking is off because you are so unclear in presenting anything resembling a coherent argument. Apparently, in your own mind, your invocation of chaos to explain away anything you can't, otherwise, is a real contribution. But even NIST and FEMA didn't stoop this low!
When are you going to contact NIST and FEMA to let them imbibe of your wisdom? You woulnd't want to leave them in a state of ignorance, now, would you?
And I repeat, if YOU aren't satisfied with common sense, and INSIST that "THEY" did it, then why don't you take the time and trouble to come up with consistent physics explanations in support? Don't you think the victims of 9/11 DESERVE that little bit of effort from YOU, since you maintain that there is an official govt. conspiracy to cover the murder of all their family/friends. You say that the govt did it, but do you take the trouble to prove any of it for the sake of the victims? No. Obviously. You're too lazy; or too not-enamoured-after-all with your own stupidity. That's what comes across, met. I don't care what you think of me. I don't HAVE to care about what lazy stupid peoiple think of me. I care about YOU doing science and everyone involved a disservice by your unsubstantiated UFO/CT bulldust.
RC.
I reject the "common sense" premise of your first question. Indeed, as should be obvious to any reader of this thread (including yourself), we find the "common sense" of the NIST apologists to often be laughable - and yours may be the most laughable of all, though you do have lots of stiff competition. (We really should have a poll to settle the matter. )
Indeed, did I not just recently point out, again, that the more improbable your notion, the more you need to make it quantitative in the hopes of possibly rescuing it? Did you think that I meant "improbable in the mind of the spewer of such drivel"? I did not.
Having put the lie to this obvious twist of propaganda, your question about a physics question is a fair one, though I digress to once again point out the difference between disproving one assertion, and proving one at odds with it.
<begin digression>
If you claim that little green fairies took down the towers, and I say "no, they were taking down with thermite", but fail to prove this claim, that does not mean that the little green faires are indeed the culprits. Perhaps to a believer in Fairy Tales, yes, but you are a scientist, so you know better. Right?
<end digression>
I'm not sure what you mean by "consistent", but I will presume you mean "non-contradictory".
I also presume that that a comprehensive account is desirable. This is certainly my view.
So the question arises: how "comprehensive" is "comprehensive"? I recently introduced the distinction between what I call the strong and weak forms of the NIST'ian hand waving re "global collapse ensued". As NIST carries out their wonderful analysis by closing their eyes to all the anomalies, most all of which point away from their Fairy Tale intuition, should I also carry out a "comprehensive" analysis wherein I also close my eyes to evidence - much of it extraordinary - which argues against NIST's intuition?
If you answer "no, don't ignore these phenomena, also" then please explain to me why it's OK for NIST to do so.
If you answer "yes, ignore these phenomena", then I will deal with your question accordingly.
* Your question being:
I reject the "common sense" premise of your first question. Indeed, as should be obvious to any reader of this thread (including yourself), we find the "common sense" of the NIST apologists to often be laughable - and yours may be the most laughable of all, though you do have lots of stiff competition. (We really should have a poll to settle the matter. )
Indeed, did I not just recently point out, again, that the more improbable your notion, the more you need to make it quantitative in the hopes of possibly rescuing it? Did you think that I meant "improbable in the mind of the spewer of such drivel"? I did not.
Having put the lie to this obvious twist of propaganda, your question about a physics question is a fair one, though I digress to once again point out the difference between disproving one assertion, and proving one at odds with it.
<begin digression>
If you claim that little green fairies took down the towers, and I say "no, they were taking down with thermite", but fail to prove this claim, that does not mean that the little green faires are indeed the culprits. Perhaps to a believer in Fairy Tales, yes, but you are a scientist, so you know better. Right?
<end digression>
I'm not sure what you mean by "consistent", but I will presume you mean "non-contradictory".
I also presume that that a comprehensive account is desirable. This is certainly my view.
So the question arises: how "comprehensive" is "comprehensive"? I recently introduced the distinction between what I call the strong and weak forms of the NIST'ian hand waving re "global collapse ensued". As NIST carries out their wonderful analysis by closing their eyes to all the anomalies, most all of which point away from their Fairy Tale intuition, should I also carry out a "comprehensive" analysis wherein I also close my eyes to evidence - much of it extraordinary - which argues against NIST's intuition?
If you answer "no, don't ignore these phenomena, also" then please explain to me why it's OK for NIST to do so.
If you answer "yes, ignore these phenomena", then I will deal with your question accordingly.
* Your question being:
if YOU aren't satisfied with common sense, and INSIST that "THEY" did it, then why don't you take the time and trouble to come up with consistent physics explanations in support?
Do you know what direction this image is taken from?
The lower image of your post is a perimeter corner, but the above is a corner of the core, or the box columns surrounding it.
The spire appears as the northwest corner here.
I must have missed that bit. Perhaps you could fill me in on just one point that you have made which doen't ramble on about drivel that has little or nothing to do with the subject with the odd adjective or verb thrown in just because you have heard it somewhere on your troubleshooting/varied /groundbreaking/(insert more blowhard egobosting words here) history and think that you will sound good to some other no-mark who is similarly clueless.
Let's be clear here. An education in a subject also confers the ability to assess the knowledge of others.
Gordon.
Thank-you. I was about to waste more time answering "Reality Check's" nonsense and obfuscation, but you have saved me the time.
I might add: take a representative sample of Gordon's posts, and a representative sample of "Reality Check's" posts, to ANY physicist or engineer at a local university, and ask a simple question:
Which is written by a technically competent person, and which is drivel?
Do be kind enough to post the responses you get, properly sourced, of course.
Metamars, I'm sure even YOU could randomly put together impressive-looking equations and numbers and terms STRAIGHT OUT OF A TEXTBOOK....while not understanding AT ALL THEIR MEANING AND OR USAGE IN ANY WAY.
The important thing is COMPREHENSION, not mindless COPYING AND PASTING some totally erroneous textbook terms to 'dress up' totally incompetent analysis constructs.
Haven't you learnt ANYTHING from the debacle with Jones and Hoffman et al? THEY ARE SUPPOSED PROFESSORS, FOR GOODNESS' SAKE...and look at the hash THEY made of the 'equations/figures', heh? Wake up and smell reality....numbers and equations are no substitute for objective observation and logical comprehension. HOW DO YOU THINK ALL THOSE EQUATIONS AND PRINCIPLES GOT FIGURED OUT IN THE FIRST PLACE?...it was those observations and logical comprehensions that allowed mathematical constructs to be created/refined TO REPRESENT THAT REALITY BEING LOGICALLY COMPREHENDED IN THE FIRST PLACE BY 'SCIENTIFIC METHOD' OBSERVATION and later REPRODUCTION VIA MATHEMATICAL REPRESENTATIONS OF SAME.
Have you learned anything from that? If nothing else, take away the point that 'numbers' mean NOTHING without comprehension and context (statistics/survey constructs/analyses are PERFECT examples where the truth is NOT ALWAYS in the NUMBERS, but in the CONTEXT). And in the case of 9/11, the physics is in context only insofar as it can be demonstrated to be 'prosaic' and everyday processes/principles involved in EXTRAORDINARILY CHAOTIC AND HUMONGOUS DYNAMICS.
Once you accept that a lot of things could be happening all over the place during that chaos, then you probably won't feel so much need to invoke space lasers and space aliens and 'mysterious energy' flows. Common sense will do the job.
Lame. Your continued avoidance of even any attempt to be precise, when you could be (that is, if you really are a "scientist", with expertise or even basic knowledge in physics and chemistry), strikes me as nothing more than a way to avoid being shown up for the spewer of drivel that you are.
And, as you have been shown to be a spewer of drivel even in a qualitative way, I don't believe for a second that you are a scientist.
I note, once again, that NIST and FEMA eschewed your "wonderful insights" for the relevance of chaos theory in understanding the collapses. Even in a mumbo jumbo, non-technical way that you specialize in, where it difficult to say where and how, exactly, your thinking is off because you are so unclear in presenting anything resembling a coherent argument. Apparently, in your own mind, your invocation of chaos to explain away anything you can't, otherwise, is a real contribution. But even NIST and FEMA didn't stoop this low!
When are you going to contact NIST and FEMA to let them imbibe of your wisdom? You woulnd't want to leave them in a state of ignorance, now, would you?
QUOTE
And I repeat, if YOU aren't satisfied with common sense, and INSIST that "THEY" did it, then why don't you take the time and trouble to come up with consistent physics explanations in support? Don't you think the victims of 9/11 DESERVE that little bit of effort from YOU, since you maintain that there is an official govt. conspiracy to cover the murder of all their family/friends. You say that the govt did it, but do you take the trouble to prove any of it for the sake of the victims? No. Obviously. You're too lazy; or too not-enamoured-after-all with your own stupidity. That's what comes across, met. I don't care what you think of me. I don't HAVE to care about what lazy stupid peoiple think of me. I care about YOU doing science and everyone involved a disservice by your unsubstantiated UFO/CT bulldust.
RC.
I reject the "common sense" premise of your first question. Indeed, as should be obvious to any reader of this thread (including yourself), we find the "common sense" of the NIST apologists to often be laughable - and yours may be the most laughable of all, though you do have lots of stiff competition. (We really should have a poll to settle the matter. )
Indeed, did I not just recently point out, again, that the more improbable your notion, the more you need to make it quantitative in the hopes of possibly rescuing it? Did you think that I meant "improbable in the mind of the spewer of such drivel"? I did not.
Having put the lie to this obvious twist of propaganda, your question about a physics question is a fair one, though I digress to once again point out the difference between disproving one assertion, and proving one at odds with it.
<begin digression>
If you claim that little green fairies took down the towers, and I say "no, they were taking down with thermite", but fail to prove this claim, that does not mean that the little green faires are indeed the culprits. Perhaps to a believer in Fairy Tales, yes, but you are a scientist, so you know better. Right?
<end digression>
I'm not sure what you mean by "consistent", but I will presume you mean "non-contradictory".
I also presume that that a comprehensive account is desirable. This is certainly my view.
So the question arises: how "comprehensive" is "comprehensive"? I recently introduced the distinction between what I call the strong and weak forms of the NIST'ian hand waving re "global collapse ensued". As NIST carries out their wonderful analysis by closing their eyes to all the anomalies, most all of which point away from their Fairy Tale intuition, should I also carry out a "comprehensive" analysis wherein I also close my eyes to evidence - much of it extraordinary - which argues against NIST's intuition?
If you answer "no, don't ignore these phenomena, also" then please explain to me why it's OK for NIST to do so.
If you answer "yes, ignore these phenomena", then I will deal with your question accordingly.
* Your question being:
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
And I repeat, if YOU aren't satisfied with common sense, and INSIST that "THEY" did it, then why don't you take the time and trouble to come up with consistent physics explanations in support? Don't you think the victims of 9/11 DESERVE that little bit of effort from YOU, since you maintain that there is an official govt. conspiracy to cover the murder of all their family/friends. You say that the govt did it, but do you take the trouble to prove any of it for the sake of the victims? No. Obviously. You're too lazy; or too not-enamoured-after-all with your own stupidity. That's what comes across, met. I don't care what you think of me. I don't HAVE to care about what lazy stupid peoiple think of me. I care about YOU doing science and everyone involved a disservice by your unsubstantiated UFO/CT bulldust. RC. |
I reject the "common sense" premise of your first question. Indeed, as should be obvious to any reader of this thread (including yourself), we find the "common sense" of the NIST apologists to often be laughable - and yours may be the most laughable of all, though you do have lots of stiff competition. (We really should have a poll to settle the matter. )
Indeed, did I not just recently point out, again, that the more improbable your notion, the more you need to make it quantitative in the hopes of possibly rescuing it? Did you think that I meant "improbable in the mind of the spewer of such drivel"? I did not.
Having put the lie to this obvious twist of propaganda, your question about a physics question is a fair one, though I digress to once again point out the difference between disproving one assertion, and proving one at odds with it.
<begin digression>
If you claim that little green fairies took down the towers, and I say "no, they were taking down with thermite", but fail to prove this claim, that does not mean that the little green faires are indeed the culprits. Perhaps to a believer in Fairy Tales, yes, but you are a scientist, so you know better. Right?
<end digression>
I'm not sure what you mean by "consistent", but I will presume you mean "non-contradictory".
I also presume that that a comprehensive account is desirable. This is certainly my view.
So the question arises: how "comprehensive" is "comprehensive"? I recently introduced the distinction between what I call the strong and weak forms of the NIST'ian hand waving re "global collapse ensued". As NIST carries out their wonderful analysis by closing their eyes to all the anomalies, most all of which point away from their Fairy Tale intuition, should I also carry out a "comprehensive" analysis wherein I also close my eyes to evidence - much of it extraordinary - which argues against NIST's intuition?
If you answer "no, don't ignore these phenomena, also" then please explain to me why it's OK for NIST to do so.
If you answer "yes, ignore these phenomena", then I will deal with your question accordingly.
* Your question being:
if YOU aren't satisfied with common sense, and INSIST that "THEY" did it, then why don't you take the time and trouble to come up with consistent physics explanations in support?
The video showed it oscillating at the end of the collapse. It was struck by debris and floor sections got pulled off of it which imparted forces on it. The vibrations of the ground left over from the collapse put some energy into it also. Gravity will also effect it. That pic I posted of the single column spire is tilted slightly. That feature was all the way up to about the 75th floor. That's not going to remain stable for long unless it was perfectly vertical and no wind disturbing it.
If the core remants of the north tower still had the floors and perimeter together with it to add rigidity it would have been better able to resist forces non-compressive stresses. The north spire/feature didn't look like a complete core either. It looked more like a wall or perhaps two wall-like sections. I'd still like to see a video of what the remnant core in the south tower looked like as it collapsed. I've only see one still of it when it could be seen through the dust.
If the core remants of the north tower still had the floors and perimeter together with it to add rigidity it would have been better able to resist forces non-compressive stresses. The north spire/feature didn't look like a complete core either. It looked more like a wall or perhaps two wall-like sections. I'd still like to see a video of what the remnant core in the south tower looked like as it collapsed. I've only see one still of it when it could be seen through the dust.
QUOTE (shagster+Mar 12 2006, 06:23 PM)
Do you know what direction this image is taken from?
The lower image of your post is a perimeter corner, but the above is a corner of the core, or the box columns surrounding it.
The spire appears as the northwest corner here.
QUOTE (reasonwhy+Mar 12 2006, 12:30 PM)
QUOTE (Guest+Mar 12 2006, 08:46 AM)
QUOTE (adoucette+Mar 12 2006, 01:28 PM)
QUOTE (hereward+Mar 12 2006, 08:50 AM)
And nobody seems to have any explanation other than that the cars were hit by burning debris... but witness have reported cars exploding... which is quite distinct from, say, being hit with a pice of burning debris.
What makes cars explode???? I am at a loss to explain this.
(: hereward
What makes cars explode?
Duh
Its called a GAS TANK.
But the fact is, virtually all the pictures are simply burned out vehicles.
They are burned out because there was almost no attempt made to put out the fires.
Because the people who could were:
A) Dead
B ) had no equipment
C) had equipment but no water pressure
D) worried about more important things, like finding their friends or finding fresh air
Arthur
Brought to you from INSULTINGLY STUPID MOVIE PHYSICS
Ever notice how cars in movies always burst into flames the instant they collide with anything? Our favorite is when a car falling from a high place explodes the instant before it hits the ground. It's as though its gas tank gets panicky and detonates at the mere thought of striking Earth. Fortunately, the physics are not so cooperative.
Gasoline has a very narrow flammable range of about 1.4 to 7.6% gasoline vapor in air 2. In other words, the vapor-air mixture must be exactly as specified or the gas will not burn, let alone explode! Note that we say vapor. Liquid gasoline must change into vapor before it can burn (although this is no huge problem since it easily vaporizes).
For a car to explode during impact the tank must catastrophically rupture and spew a fine mist of gasoline over a large area so it can vaporize and mix with air in exactly the right proportions. The mixture must then find a source of ignition. Automobile gas tanks are built to withstand a considerable impact force and are usually located in a protected area between the beams of a car's frame. Common ignition sources in the car's engine are generally at the other end of the vehicle.
As portrayed in movies, gasoline tanks are fragile and gasoline so volatile that the vaporizing and mixing process occurs in milliseconds. It always results in an explosive mixture which always finds a source of ignition. Thank heavens it's not so easy or people would regularly be blowing themselves up while refueling at the pump.
Even when a wrecked car catches on fire it rarely explodes. A gas tank can explode if it contains an explosive mixture and there's an opening for the flames to enter. More likely, fire would have to impinge on the outside of the gas tank, vaporizing the gasoline in the tank and eventually causing it to overpressure and explode. However, if the vapors escaped fast enough the tank would not rupture. Most fires start in the engine compartment and will not spread backwards to the gas tank area unless the tank is leaking fuel on the ground. Again a whole series of events has to be just right for an explosion to occur.
Although it's actually quite rare, exploding cars are a common excuse for not wearing seat belts. Onlookers at crash sites are often so concerned about explosions that they unnecessarily jeopardize a person with a spinal injury by pulling them out of a wrecked car. The common Hollywood depiction fuels these harmful misconceptions.
Excellent post guest, why don’t you register? Reminds me of :
The NBC Fuel tank hoax.
NBC news did a story on side mounted fuel tanks on GM trucks.
The claim of the story was that when such a truck was struck, it would burst into flames. GM insisted that it's side mounted truck fuel tanks were more than sturdy enough to survive the average traffic collision.
NBC produced and aired a video segment that showed a vehicle colliding with the side fuel tank of a GM truck at low speed, and the GM fuel tank exploded.
It later turned out that the fuel tank had been rigged with explosive devices by NBC to manufacture the explosion seen in their news report!
TIME article on the NBC hoax.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/LIE/nbc.html
So you morons think the cars just exploded a block away from the towers while leaving the cars next to the towers alone? Incredible hopping explosives or hopping pyroclastic flow... Which is it...
MORONS Heh!
What makes cars explode???? I am at a loss to explain this.
(: hereward
What makes cars explode?
Duh
Its called a GAS TANK.
But the fact is, virtually all the pictures are simply burned out vehicles.
They are burned out because there was almost no attempt made to put out the fires.
Because the people who could were:
A) Dead
B ) had no equipment
C) had equipment but no water pressure
D) worried about more important things, like finding their friends or finding fresh air
Arthur
Brought to you from INSULTINGLY STUPID MOVIE PHYSICS
Ever notice how cars in movies always burst into flames the instant they collide with anything? Our favorite is when a car falling from a high place explodes the instant before it hits the ground. It's as though its gas tank gets panicky and detonates at the mere thought of striking Earth. Fortunately, the physics are not so cooperative.
Gasoline has a very narrow flammable range of about 1.4 to 7.6% gasoline vapor in air 2. In other words, the vapor-air mixture must be exactly as specified or the gas will not burn, let alone explode! Note that we say vapor. Liquid gasoline must change into vapor before it can burn (although this is no huge problem since it easily vaporizes).
For a car to explode during impact the tank must catastrophically rupture and spew a fine mist of gasoline over a large area so it can vaporize and mix with air in exactly the right proportions. The mixture must then find a source of ignition. Automobile gas tanks are built to withstand a considerable impact force and are usually located in a protected area between the beams of a car's frame. Common ignition sources in the car's engine are generally at the other end of the vehicle.
As portrayed in movies, gasoline tanks are fragile and gasoline so volatile that the vaporizing and mixing process occurs in milliseconds. It always results in an explosive mixture which always finds a source of ignition. Thank heavens it's not so easy or people would regularly be blowing themselves up while refueling at the pump.
Even when a wrecked car catches on fire it rarely explodes. A gas tank can explode if it contains an explosive mixture and there's an opening for the flames to enter. More likely, fire would have to impinge on the outside of the gas tank, vaporizing the gasoline in the tank and eventually causing it to overpressure and explode. However, if the vapors escaped fast enough the tank would not rupture. Most fires start in the engine compartment and will not spread backwards to the gas tank area unless the tank is leaking fuel on the ground. Again a whole series of events has to be just right for an explosion to occur.
Although it's actually quite rare, exploding cars are a common excuse for not wearing seat belts. Onlookers at crash sites are often so concerned about explosions that they unnecessarily jeopardize a person with a spinal injury by pulling them out of a wrecked car. The common Hollywood depiction fuels these harmful misconceptions.
Excellent post guest, why don’t you register? Reminds me of :
The NBC Fuel tank hoax.
NBC news did a story on side mounted fuel tanks on GM trucks.
The claim of the story was that when such a truck was struck, it would burst into flames. GM insisted that it's side mounted truck fuel tanks were more than sturdy enough to survive the average traffic collision.
NBC produced and aired a video segment that showed a vehicle colliding with the side fuel tank of a GM truck at low speed, and the GM fuel tank exploded.
It later turned out that the fuel tank had been rigged with explosive devices by NBC to manufacture the explosion seen in their news report!
TIME article on the NBC hoax.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/LIE/nbc.html
So you morons think the cars just exploded a block away from the towers while leaving the cars next to the towers alone? Incredible hopping explosives or hopping pyroclastic flow... Which is it...
MORONS Heh!
QUOTE (Commen sense+Mar 12 2006, 06:45 PM)
QUOTE (newton+Mar 12 2006, 11:40 AM)
when the perpetrators are in jail, EVERYONE will make money by not having all their tax dollars and public assets funneled into the hands of the neocon crone army.
there are no democrats, common sense. have you not seen enough pictures of kang(bush) and kodos(clinton) holding hands?
you're not a satanist, are you? or a 'texas longhorns' fan?
And why wouldn't a CTer think the world is against him? It follows partanoid people will always think like paranoid people.
Your best hopes lay with the democrats because if you thin out the vote again you will never get enough democrats in congress to push for an investigation. But then working for Rove you should know this already...
Who are you going to hang your hope on? The green party taking over in 2006??? HAHAHA! Moron..
once again.
it's your country. not mine. mine's not much better, mind you.
i hang my hope on a conscious party, dude. an awakening of the sleeping masses.
seems to be happening.
cool, eh?
join us.
The lower image of your post is a perimeter corner, but the above is a corner of the core, or the box columns surrounding it.
That spire appears to be the northwest corner. I showed the two pics for comparison. The core columns of the spire structure don't look like a perimeter corner.
there are no democrats, common sense. have you not seen enough pictures of kang(bush) and kodos(clinton) holding hands?
you're not a satanist, are you? or a 'texas longhorns' fan?
And why wouldn't a CTer think the world is against him? It follows partanoid people will always think like paranoid people.
Your best hopes lay with the democrats because if you thin out the vote again you will never get enough democrats in congress to push for an investigation. But then working for Rove you should know this already...
Who are you going to hang your hope on? The green party taking over in 2006??? HAHAHA! Moron..
once again.
it's your country. not mine. mine's not much better, mind you.
i hang my hope on a conscious party, dude. an awakening of the sleeping masses.
seems to be happening.
cool, eh?
join us.
QUOTE (newton+Mar 12 2006, 06:38 PM)
bush foooking loves you, CS.
In fact, he's back in America just to honor your work.
In fact, he's back in America just to honor your work.
QUOTE (Christophera+Mar 12 2006, 06:50 PM)
The lower image of your post is a perimeter corner, but the above is a corner of the core, or the box columns surrounding it.
That spire appears to be the northwest corner. I showed the two pics for comparison. The core columns of the spire structure don't look like a perimeter corner.
QUOTE (newton+Mar 12 2006, 01:38 PM)
QUOTE (Commen sense+Mar 12 2006, 06:28 PM)
QUOTE (911truthbristolcom+Mar 12 2006, 11:17 AM)
well said and if you don't believe it then that is to do with any research into the subject
Check out this info below for necessary links
As a core member of the UK and Ireland 911 Truth Campaign what I say here is backed up by the likes of former MI5 officer David Shayler, authors Ian Henshall, Rowland Morgan, Nafeez Ahmed etc – see http://nineeleven.co.uk.
There is no longer any debate. 911 was an inside job – the evidence was overwhelming years ago. Please don’t take my word for it – do your own reading/watching - there are dozens of good books and films let alone the many websites. There are even peer reviewed scientific papers now. If you have yet to see a film regarding 911 (Fahrenheit 911 does not count) then I recommend Loose Change 2.
There is no point in arguing with those who haven’t accessed the relevant information. How people can argue an opinion based on little or no information has always bemused me. The fact is that no one ever argues once they’ve seen the evidence. If the truth is, that you simply just don’t wanna know then don’t be dismissive – just leave this thread and go and read something a bit cossier.
Sticking to the music, Eminem, Mos Def, Paris, Braintax, Public Enemy, Dead Prez, Immortal Technique, Photek, Blackout (Bristol dnb) are but a few artists that are now understanding the 911 ‘conspiracy’. It’s been pretty much mainstream knowledge for at least a year now and if you’re still in denial after watching some of the films below then you probably always will be.
There is a high likelihood of a war on Iran in the near future. It is imperative that you understand how the war on terror has been manufactured as part of a pretext for wars of aggression in the Middle East and the loss of civil freedoms here at home.
Remember there categorically were no wmd in Iraq and our top politicians fed the public false information over and over – tens of thousands of people have died. Ask yourself – who benefits?
Most of you, I’m sure realise, the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are about controlling the world’s energy resources. The blueprint was laid out by the Neocons in the Project for the New American Century pre 911 – it doesn’t stop at Iraq.
“The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don’t do anything about it.” ~ Albert Einstein
Adrian Connock
http://officialconfusion.com
Local press coverage
9/11 'THE WORK OF SECURITY CHIEFS'
Bristol Evening Post
Recent mainstream news article
Experts Call for Release of 9/11 Evidence
Yahoo newswire
HERE ARE A FEW 911 LINKS – mainly streaming video
Analysis of the attack on the twin towers and the Pentagon:
Loose Change (2nd Edition) Contains animations of the attack on the Pentagon and a very thorough analysis of both the attacks on WTC and the Pentagon:
Loose Change 2nd Edition
Martial Law – Alex Jones. Out of the ashes of the September 11th tragedy, a dark empire of war and tyranny has risen. The Constitution has been shredded and America is now a Police State. This film exposes not just who was behind the 9-11 attacks, but the roots and history of its orchestration.
Martial Law 9/11 - Rise of the Police State:
Face the Facts – 911truthbristol.com – a punchy to the point 45 minute overview of the key 911 issues. Plus links to other 911 related films, which give the viewer a wider understanding of state sponsored terror and the manufacturing of war for profit and power. Face the Facts
Guerilla News Network Aftermath: 911 Unanswered Questions Highlighting the inconsistencies with protocol on 911 and the motives behind elements of the US government orchestrating the attacks.
Painful Deceptions - This video deals with pretty much, every unanswered question surrounding the attacks. Painful Deceptions - An analysis of the September 11th Attack
This recent presentation by Dr. Steven Jones (Department of Physics and Astronomy - Brigham Young University) is primarily focused on the collapses of World Trade Center 1, 2, and 7 on 9/11.
9/11 Revisited: Scientific and Ethical Questions
Here are the related documents that go along with this presentation:
Jones's research 'white paper'
Steven Jones has joined: Scholars for 9/11 Truth
Acoustic profile of the explosives used to bring down the towers. Recorded by an eyewitness, who filmed the entire attack from peer 51. This video contains footage you can't find anywhere else.
911 Eyewitness
There are some who maintain that the mythical 9/11 hijackers, although proven to be too incompetent to fly a little Cessna 172, had acquired the impressive skills that enabled them to fly airliners by training in flight simulators. Nila Sagadevan is an aeronautical engineer and a qualified pilot. Here he explains how the maneuvers Hani Hanjour had to go through to reach the Pentagon are virtually impossible.
The Impossibility of Flying Heavy Aircraft Without Training
About suspicious events on the stock market up to 911
Ever since the attacks on the World Trade towers and the Pentagon, disturbing questions have been raised about the possible involvement of some parts of the U.S. security apparatus or Administration. These questions have been supported by extensive circumstantial evidence and has been investigated by several U.S. Congressional Committees. Furthermore, the U.S. media have reported on the well known relationship which exists between President George W. Bush, the Carlyle Group, several oil companies and the Bin Laden Family.
Former narcotics investigator Mike Ruppert was forced out of the LAPD in 1977 when he exposed evidence of drug trafficking by the CIA. The Truth & Lies of 9-11 is a filmed lecture at Portland State University, where Ruppert uses only government documents, official statements and press reports as the basis of his investigative work. This pioneering, groundbreaking expose of 9-11, now two years old, paints a stark and accurate picture of our world today and tomorrow.
Truth and Lies of 911
Debunking the Kean commission report about 911
David Ray Griffin explains PNAC and the neocon's dream about an American empire in relation to 911
911 and the American Empire
Here he literally debunks the entire report as a 170 page lie:
The 911 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions
Specifically about 9/11 in relation to PNAC (Project for the New American Century)
Was 9/11 more than just an attack? Could the Bush administration have had anything to gain from the attack? Two prominent European politicians, Michael Meacher and Andreas von Bülow, express their serious doubts about the official version of the 9/11 story.
Attack or Godsend
Alternative link:Attack or Godsend
About the media as complicit in the cover-up of 9/11
This is a ground-breaking 44-minute video by Barrie Zwicker. He was the first mainstream journalist in the world to go on air (in January 2002) and ask hard questions about the official story of 9/11. He analyses the use of fear to befuddle the public. He deconstructs the so-called "war on terrorism". He examines in depth the failure of the military on 9/11 and George Bush's highly inappropriate behaviour that day. He finds the 9/11 Commission to be a total cover-up operation. Throughout, he analyses the role of the mainstream media as complicit in keeping the public massively misinformed and befuddled.
The 911 news special you never saw
Perspective on 9-11 excerpts the portion of Painful Deceptions that covers the collapse of Building 7 -- which includes five videos of the Building 7's implosion Jenkins combines the best parts of the work of others, sticks to substantial evidence, and frames the presentation of that evidence in a historical context that facilitates its objective examination.
Perspective on 9/11
Download links to most videos listed above
http://www.question911.com/links.php
Links to high resolution XviD's and DivX: Conspiracy Central (Searched on 911). You will have to sign up HERE to see the download links and you need a bit torrent client to download them
Other Documentation for those who wants to check the facts for themselves:
911 data archives
Truth Bristol 911 links
NIST report:
http://wtc.nist.gov/reports_october05.htm
Comments from other experts on this report:
http://wtc.nist.gov/wtc_public_comments.htm
Eyewitness testimonies:
http://www.mjbarkl.com/locked.htm
911 reading room:
http://911readingroom.org/bib/
Pictures, reports, articles etc.
http://911research.wtc7.net/
Precedents, motives and a history of bankers raping nations with artificial inflation to throw them into war
THE MONEY MASTERS is a 3 1/2 hour non-fiction, historical documentary that traces the origins of the political power structure that rules our nation and the world today. The modern political power structure has its roots in the hidden manipulation and accumulation of gold and other forms of money. The development of fractional reserve banking practices in the 17th century brought to a cunning sophistication the secret techniques initially used by goldsmiths fraudulently to accumulate wealth. With the formation of the privately-owned Bank of England in 1694, the yoke of economic slavery to a privately-owned "central" bank was first forced upon the backs of an entire nation, not removed but only made heavier with the passing of the three centuries to our day. Nation after nation, including America, has fallen prey to this cabal of international central bankers. Info: http://www.themoneymasters.com/
The Money Masters 1 of 3
The Money Masters 2 of 3
The Money Masters 3 of 3
Loose change is a video made by 22 year old media enthusiast who lie. The proof is the timer which stops collapse at 10:09 when the perimeter columns fall and not the whole building. The building is at about the 40th floor when it diapears in the debris cloud. More evidence of thier lies is the quotes taken out of context saying people heard explosions. Yes they heard explosions but they also said they didn't know the buildings were falling at the time.
http://www.geocities.com/debunking911/
Now why would they have to lie in order to make thier case? They have no case, that's why.
common sense. the little boy with his finger in the dike.
that army of researchers and facts presented in the mountain of information above, and you want to talk about some little anomaly.
bush foooking loves you, CS.
the point about the banks is more relevent than anything else there, inho.
The fact that this information is on CT sites makes everything in it suspect. I've caught so many lies coming out of you sacks of shait I just skip most of it unless it catches my eye. Soon I'll just skip your pathetic post as well since your just another one gordons aplause machines like reasonwhy.
Check out this info below for necessary links
As a core member of the UK and Ireland 911 Truth Campaign what I say here is backed up by the likes of former MI5 officer David Shayler, authors Ian Henshall, Rowland Morgan, Nafeez Ahmed etc – see http://nineeleven.co.uk.
There is no longer any debate. 911 was an inside job – the evidence was overwhelming years ago. Please don’t take my word for it – do your own reading/watching - there are dozens of good books and films let alone the many websites. There are even peer reviewed scientific papers now. If you have yet to see a film regarding 911 (Fahrenheit 911 does not count) then I recommend Loose Change 2.
There is no point in arguing with those who haven’t accessed the relevant information. How people can argue an opinion based on little or no information has always bemused me. The fact is that no one ever argues once they’ve seen the evidence. If the truth is, that you simply just don’t wanna know then don’t be dismissive – just leave this thread and go and read something a bit cossier.
Sticking to the music, Eminem, Mos Def, Paris, Braintax, Public Enemy, Dead Prez, Immortal Technique, Photek, Blackout (Bristol dnb) are but a few artists that are now understanding the 911 ‘conspiracy’. It’s been pretty much mainstream knowledge for at least a year now and if you’re still in denial after watching some of the films below then you probably always will be.
There is a high likelihood of a war on Iran in the near future. It is imperative that you understand how the war on terror has been manufactured as part of a pretext for wars of aggression in the Middle East and the loss of civil freedoms here at home.
Remember there categorically were no wmd in Iraq and our top politicians fed the public false information over and over – tens of thousands of people have died. Ask yourself – who benefits?
Most of you, I’m sure realise, the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are about controlling the world’s energy resources. The blueprint was laid out by the Neocons in the Project for the New American Century pre 911 – it doesn’t stop at Iraq.
“The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don’t do anything about it.” ~ Albert Einstein
Adrian Connock
http://officialconfusion.com
Local press coverage
9/11 'THE WORK OF SECURITY CHIEFS'
Bristol Evening Post
Recent mainstream news article
Experts Call for Release of 9/11 Evidence
Yahoo newswire
HERE ARE A FEW 911 LINKS – mainly streaming video
Analysis of the attack on the twin towers and the Pentagon:
Loose Change (2nd Edition) Contains animations of the attack on the Pentagon and a very thorough analysis of both the attacks on WTC and the Pentagon:
Loose Change 2nd Edition
Martial Law – Alex Jones. Out of the ashes of the September 11th tragedy, a dark empire of war and tyranny has risen. The Constitution has been shredded and America is now a Police State. This film exposes not just who was behind the 9-11 attacks, but the roots and history of its orchestration.
Martial Law 9/11 - Rise of the Police State:
Face the Facts – 911truthbristol.com – a punchy to the point 45 minute overview of the key 911 issues. Plus links to other 911 related films, which give the viewer a wider understanding of state sponsored terror and the manufacturing of war for profit and power. Face the Facts
Guerilla News Network Aftermath: 911 Unanswered Questions Highlighting the inconsistencies with protocol on 911 and the motives behind elements of the US government orchestrating the attacks.
Painful Deceptions - This video deals with pretty much, every unanswered question surrounding the attacks. Painful Deceptions - An analysis of the September 11th Attack
This recent presentation by Dr. Steven Jones (Department of Physics and Astronomy - Brigham Young University) is primarily focused on the collapses of World Trade Center 1, 2, and 7 on 9/11.
9/11 Revisited: Scientific and Ethical Questions
Here are the related documents that go along with this presentation:
Jones's research 'white paper'
Steven Jones has joined: Scholars for 9/11 Truth
Acoustic profile of the explosives used to bring down the towers. Recorded by an eyewitness, who filmed the entire attack from peer 51. This video contains footage you can't find anywhere else.
911 Eyewitness
There are some who maintain that the mythical 9/11 hijackers, although proven to be too incompetent to fly a little Cessna 172, had acquired the impressive skills that enabled them to fly airliners by training in flight simulators. Nila Sagadevan is an aeronautical engineer and a qualified pilot. Here he explains how the maneuvers Hani Hanjour had to go through to reach the Pentagon are virtually impossible.
The Impossibility of Flying Heavy Aircraft Without Training
About suspicious events on the stock market up to 911
Ever since the attacks on the World Trade towers and the Pentagon, disturbing questions have been raised about the possible involvement of some parts of the U.S. security apparatus or Administration. These questions have been supported by extensive circumstantial evidence and has been investigated by several U.S. Congressional Committees. Furthermore, the U.S. media have reported on the well known relationship which exists between President George W. Bush, the Carlyle Group, several oil companies and the Bin Laden Family.
Former narcotics investigator Mike Ruppert was forced out of the LAPD in 1977 when he exposed evidence of drug trafficking by the CIA. The Truth & Lies of 9-11 is a filmed lecture at Portland State University, where Ruppert uses only government documents, official statements and press reports as the basis of his investigative work. This pioneering, groundbreaking expose of 9-11, now two years old, paints a stark and accurate picture of our world today and tomorrow.
Truth and Lies of 911
Debunking the Kean commission report about 911
David Ray Griffin explains PNAC and the neocon's dream about an American empire in relation to 911
911 and the American Empire
Here he literally debunks the entire report as a 170 page lie:
The 911 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions
Specifically about 9/11 in relation to PNAC (Project for the New American Century)
Was 9/11 more than just an attack? Could the Bush administration have had anything to gain from the attack? Two prominent European politicians, Michael Meacher and Andreas von Bülow, express their serious doubts about the official version of the 9/11 story.
Attack or Godsend
Alternative link:Attack or Godsend
About the media as complicit in the cover-up of 9/11
This is a ground-breaking 44-minute video by Barrie Zwicker. He was the first mainstream journalist in the world to go on air (in January 2002) and ask hard questions about the official story of 9/11. He analyses the use of fear to befuddle the public. He deconstructs the so-called "war on terrorism". He examines in depth the failure of the military on 9/11 and George Bush's highly inappropriate behaviour that day. He finds the 9/11 Commission to be a total cover-up operation. Throughout, he analyses the role of the mainstream media as complicit in keeping the public massively misinformed and befuddled.
The 911 news special you never saw
Perspective on 9-11 excerpts the portion of Painful Deceptions that covers the collapse of Building 7 -- which includes five videos of the Building 7's implosion Jenkins combines the best parts of the work of others, sticks to substantial evidence, and frames the presentation of that evidence in a historical context that facilitates its objective examination.
Perspective on 9/11
Download links to most videos listed above
http://www.question911.com/links.php
Links to high resolution XviD's and DivX: Conspiracy Central (Searched on 911). You will have to sign up HERE to see the download links and you need a bit torrent client to download them
Other Documentation for those who wants to check the facts for themselves:
911 data archives
Truth Bristol 911 links
NIST report:
http://wtc.nist.gov/reports_october05.htm
Comments from other experts on this report:
http://wtc.nist.gov/wtc_public_comments.htm
Eyewitness testimonies:
http://www.mjbarkl.com/locked.htm
911 reading room:
http://911readingroom.org/bib/
Pictures, reports, articles etc.
http://911research.wtc7.net/
Precedents, motives and a history of bankers raping nations with artificial inflation to throw them into war
THE MONEY MASTERS is a 3 1/2 hour non-fiction, historical documentary that traces the origins of the political power structure that rules our nation and the world today. The modern political power structure has its roots in the hidden manipulation and accumulation of gold and other forms of money. The development of fractional reserve banking practices in the 17th century brought to a cunning sophistication the secret techniques initially used by goldsmiths fraudulently to accumulate wealth. With the formation of the privately-owned Bank of England in 1694, the yoke of economic slavery to a privately-owned "central" bank was first forced upon the backs of an entire nation, not removed but only made heavier with the passing of the three centuries to our day. Nation after nation, including America, has fallen prey to this cabal of international central bankers. Info: http://www.themoneymasters.com/
The Money Masters 1 of 3
The Money Masters 2 of 3
The Money Masters 3 of 3
Loose change is a video made by 22 year old media enthusiast who lie. The proof is the timer which stops collapse at 10:09 when the perimeter columns fall and not the whole building. The building is at about the 40th floor when it diapears in the debris cloud. More evidence of thier lies is the quotes taken out of context saying people heard explosions. Yes they heard explosions but they also said they didn't know the buildings were falling at the time.
http://www.geocities.com/debunking911/
Now why would they have to lie in order to make thier case? They have no case, that's why.
common sense. the little boy with his finger in the dike.
that army of researchers and facts presented in the mountain of information above, and you want to talk about some little anomaly.
bush foooking loves you, CS.
the point about the banks is more relevent than anything else there, inho.
The fact that this information is on CT sites makes everything in it suspect. I've caught so many lies coming out of you sacks of shait I just skip most of it unless it catches my eye. Soon I'll just skip your pathetic post as well since your just another one gordons aplause machines like reasonwhy.
QUOTE (newton+Mar 12 2006, 01:53 PM)
QUOTE (Commen sense+Mar 12 2006, 06:45 PM)
QUOTE (newton+Mar 12 2006, 11:40 AM)
when the perpetrators are in jail, EVERYONE will make money by not having all their tax dollars and public assets funneled into the hands of the neocon crone army.
there are no democrats, common sense. have you not seen enough pictures of kang(bush) and kodos(clinton) holding hands?
you're not a satanist, are you? or a 'texas longhorns' fan?
And why wouldn't a CTer think the world is against him? It follows partanoid people will always think like paranoid people.
Your best hopes lay with the democrats because if you thin out the vote again you will never get enough democrats in congress to push for an investigation. But then working for Rove you should know this already...
Who are you going to hang your hope on? The green party taking over in 2006??? HAHAHA! Moron..
once again.
it's your country. not mine. mine's not much better, mind you.
i hang my hope on a conscious party, dude. an awakening of the sleeping masses.
seems to be happening.
cool, eh?
join us.
Why don't you stop making my work to get rid of the fool Bush harder by pushing this swift boaters for 9/11 lies?
there are no democrats, common sense. have you not seen enough pictures of kang(bush) and kodos(clinton) holding hands?
you're not a satanist, are you? or a 'texas longhorns' fan?
And why wouldn't a CTer think the world is against him? It follows partanoid people will always think like paranoid people.
Your best hopes lay with the democrats because if you thin out the vote again you will never get enough democrats in congress to push for an investigation. But then working for Rove you should know this already...
Who are you going to hang your hope on? The green party taking over in 2006??? HAHAHA! Moron..
once again.
it's your country. not mine. mine's not much better, mind you.
i hang my hope on a conscious party, dude. an awakening of the sleeping masses.
seems to be happening.
cool, eh?
join us.
Why don't you stop making my work to get rid of the fool Bush harder by pushing this swift boaters for 9/11 lies?
QUOTE (newton+Mar 12 2006, 04:28 PM)
okay, i think your right, gordon. i think there were two corner columns on each corner.
why wouldn't there be? the three column perimeter spandrel plates can be seen at diffent heights than these two corner columns in some of the aerial photos of construction phases.
arthur, just keeps doing the regular song and dance, deny, deny, deny, proved, admit but obfuscate and forget earlier proven variables.
you brave bush defender(s) have been pushing the possibility of a 'syringe theory' that can send out a 'pulse' and claim extreme chaos as an excuse to not possible analyuse the collapse, and yet won't admit that such a 'pulse' could be COOLER AIR in the maelstrom of MOSTLY HOT churning and expanding gases.
the surrounding buildings are covered in SOOT like after a HUGE EXPLOSION.
and, hereward, that IS weird the way cars were reported spontaneuosly exploding when there was no visible heat source. this may point to some kind of exotic secret weapon working on unknown principles.
perhaps this is also why trees were spared, where materials with a higher degree of volatility exploded. i was never a fan of the syringe theory.
perhaps, also, it was due to a random rain of hot balls of thermite.
and, reality check. i'm sorry to be inaccurate.
it was BOOOOOM(tower hasn't budged),..........some 17 to 20s of blessed peace
and then as the tower goes instantly into freefall(as per brazant zhou's analysis)....
...BOOOOM, .....BOOOOOOMooooBOOOOOOOOOOMooooooooooBOOOOOOOOOMoooBOOOOOOOM
(and then no more noise while the spire staggers, and then plummets. once again that is NO NOISE from the collapse of the spire(as recorded from hoboken).
the sound wave graphs clearly show massive percussive spikes that do not match the smooth descent of the tower. one would need to see sudden movement, and then a sudden stop to produce those sounds with a falling object hitting another, like the noise of a drum. the kinetic energy of the stick is translated instantly to the drum head(notice the stick now bounces back up).
explosions taking out core support totally makes sense of the sounds vs. motion comparison and the HUGE PERCUSSIVE SPIKES.
newton wrote
perhaps, also, it was due to a random rain of hot balls of thermite.
If there was thermite used up high to remove perimeter columns milliseconds before floors detonated, yes. That would definately figure.
My only problem with that is that the installation requires intimate contact with the steel. Even thermite applied to interior box column could end up flying out when floors or the core detonated. Still, installation would be difficult.
We need a map showing the locations of burned cars. The relative building faces may show that they were the sides where the demo was disguised as compressive failures.
why wouldn't there be? the three column perimeter spandrel plates can be seen at diffent heights than these two corner columns in some of the aerial photos of construction phases.
arthur, just keeps doing the regular song and dance, deny, deny, deny, proved, admit but obfuscate and forget earlier proven variables.
you brave bush defender(s) have been pushing the possibility of a 'syringe theory' that can send out a 'pulse' and claim extreme chaos as an excuse to not possible analyuse the collapse, and yet won't admit that such a 'pulse' could be COOLER AIR in the maelstrom of MOSTLY HOT churning and expanding gases.
the surrounding buildings are covered in SOOT like after a HUGE EXPLOSION.
and, hereward, that IS weird the way cars were reported spontaneuosly exploding when there was no visible heat source. this may point to some kind of exotic secret weapon working on unknown principles.
perhaps this is also why trees were spared, where materials with a higher degree of volatility exploded. i was never a fan of the syringe theory.
perhaps, also, it was due to a random rain of hot balls of thermite.
and, reality check. i'm sorry to be inaccurate.
it was BOOOOOM(tower hasn't budged),..........some 17 to 20s of blessed peace
and then as the tower goes instantly into freefall(as per brazant zhou's analysis)....
...BOOOOM, .....BOOOOOOMooooBOOOOOOOOOOMooooooooooBOOOOOOOOOMoooBOOOOOOOM
(and then no more noise while the spire staggers, and then plummets. once again that is NO NOISE from the collapse of the spire(as recorded from hoboken).
the sound wave graphs clearly show massive percussive spikes that do not match the smooth descent of the tower. one would need to see sudden movement, and then a sudden stop to produce those sounds with a falling object hitting another, like the noise of a drum. the kinetic energy of the stick is translated instantly to the drum head(notice the stick now bounces back up).
explosions taking out core support totally makes sense of the sounds vs. motion comparison and the HUGE PERCUSSIVE SPIKES.
newton wrote
perhaps, also, it was due to a random rain of hot balls of thermite.
If there was thermite used up high to remove perimeter columns milliseconds before floors detonated, yes. That would definately figure.
My only problem with that is that the installation requires intimate contact with the steel. Even thermite applied to interior box column could end up flying out when floors or the core detonated. Still, installation would be difficult.
We need a map showing the locations of burned cars. The relative building faces may show that they were the sides where the demo was disguised as compressive failures.
QUOTE (Christophera+Mar 12 2006, 01:53 PM)
QUOTE (newton+Mar 12 2006, 06:38 PM)
bush foooking loves you, CS.
In fact, he's back in America just to honor your work.
What happened to your ridiculous concrete core theory? You know, the elevator cannon barrel. which should have sent elevators and landings into low earth orbit. Heh!
Your photograph is fitting since you think hes loved by more than people love Jesus.
The man, the myth, the conspiracy theory.
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyreg...ski_Richard.txt
What do you expect the floors to sound like as they drop, one next to the other? If it didn't SEEM like explosions I would worry we weren't on earth.
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyreg...ski_Richard.txt
What do you expect the floors to sound like as they drop, one next to the other? If it didn't SEEM like explosions I would worry we weren't on earth.
“I saw a flash flash flash [at] the lower level of the building. You know like when they demolish a building?”--Assistant Fire Commissioner Stephen Gregory
This was one of those quotes taken out of context I told you about. Now the WHOLE QUOTE without the taking out of context part...
I know I was with an officer from Ladder 146, a Lieutenant Evangelista, who ultimately called me up a couple of days later just to find out how I was. We both for whatever reason -- again, I don't know how valid this is with everything that was going on at that particular point in time, but for some reason I thought that when I looked in the direction of the Trade Center before it came down, before No. 2 came down, that I saw low-leve] flashes. In my conversation with Lieutenant Evangelista, never mentioning this to him, he questioned me and asked me if I saw low-level flashes in front of the building, and I agreed with him because I thought -- at that time I didn't know what it was. I mean, it could have been as a result of the building collapsing, things exploding, but I saw a flash flash flash and then it looked like the building came down.
Q.: Was that on the lower level of the building or up where the fire was?
A: No, the lower level of the building. You know like when they demolish a building, how when they blow up a building, when it falls down? That's what I thought I saw. And I didn't broach the topic to him, but he asked me. He said I don't know if I'm crazy, but I just wanted to ask you because you were standing right next to me. He said did you see anything by the building? And I said what do you mean by see anything? He said did yc.u see any flashes? I said, yes, well, I thought it was just me. He said no, I saw them, too.
I don't know if that means anything. I mean, I equate it to the building cowing down and pushing things down, it could have been electrical explosions, it could have been whatever.
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyreg...ory_Stephen.txt
Let me guess why they left that important part out..
SO WE WERE PRETTY MUCH-MOST OF THE WORKERS WERE INSIDE THIS BUILDING. I LIKE SAID, I DONT KNOW IF ITS FIVE WORLD TRADE CENTER OR FOUR WORLD TRADE CENTER. MOST OF THEM WERE IN THE BUILDING BECAUSE THE CHIEF OR THE CAPTAIN SAID IF YOU WANT YOU CAN STAY INSIDE THAT BUILDING. BUT I DIDNT FEEL SAFE BECAUSE I KNEW IT WAS TERRORIST ATTACK SO I WAS SCARED. EVERY TIME YOU HEAR PLANE EVERYONE WOULD RUN. SO I PRETTY MUCH STOOD AROUND HERE SOMEWHERE. I WOULD SEE TRIAGE, BUT I WAS PRETTY MUCH IN BETWEEN THE TWO BUILDINGS.
THEN THAT'S WHEN-I KEPT ON WALKING CLOSE TO THE SOUTH TOWER, AND THAT'S WHEN THAT BUILDING COLLAPSED.
Q: HOW DID YOU KNOWTHAT IT WAS COMING DOWN?
A: THAT NOISE .IT WAS NOISE.
Q: WHAT DID YOU HEAR? WHAT DID YOU SEE?
A: IT WAS A FRIGGING NOISE. AT FIRST I THOUGHT IT WAS-DO YOU EVER SEE PROFESSIONAL DEMOLITION WHERE THEY SET THE CHARGES ON CERTAIN FLOORS AND THEN YOU HEAR "POP, POP, POP, POP, POP"? THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT-BECAUSE I THOUGHT IT WAS THAT WHEN I HEARD THAT FRIGGING NOISE, THAT'S WHEN SAW THE BUILDING COMING DOWN.
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/...HIC/9110035.PDF
First notice he and everyone else was scared of TERRORISTS. What do TERRORIST DO? They BLOW SHIAT UP. So it's not unreasonable for someone who is thinking TERRORIST to hear the sound of huge concrete floors falling one on top of the other to think "BOMB" first. As I said, No one has ever seen an airplane hit buildings constructed like this and the collapse if this odd combination.
SO WE WERE PRETTY MUCH-MOST OF THE WORKERS WERE INSIDE THIS BUILDING. I LIKE SAID, I DONT KNOW IF ITS FIVE WORLD TRADE CENTER OR FOUR WORLD TRADE CENTER. MOST OF THEM WERE IN THE BUILDING BECAUSE THE CHIEF OR THE CAPTAIN SAID IF YOU WANT YOU CAN STAY INSIDE THAT BUILDING. BUT I DIDNT FEEL SAFE BECAUSE I KNEW IT WAS TERRORIST ATTACK SO I WAS SCARED. EVERY TIME YOU HEAR PLANE EVERYONE WOULD RUN. SO I PRETTY MUCH STOOD AROUND HERE SOMEWHERE. I WOULD SEE TRIAGE, BUT I WAS PRETTY MUCH IN BETWEEN THE TWO BUILDINGS.
THEN THAT'S WHEN-I KEPT ON WALKING CLOSE TO THE SOUTH TOWER, AND THAT'S WHEN THAT BUILDING COLLAPSED.
Q: HOW DID YOU KNOWTHAT IT WAS COMING DOWN?
A: THAT NOISE .IT WAS NOISE.
Q: WHAT DID YOU HEAR? WHAT DID YOU SEE?
A: IT WAS A FRIGGING NOISE. AT FIRST I THOUGHT IT WAS-DO YOU EVER SEE PROFESSIONAL DEMOLITION WHERE THEY SET THE CHARGES ON CERTAIN FLOORS AND THEN YOU HEAR "POP, POP, POP, POP, POP"? THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT-BECAUSE I THOUGHT IT WAS THAT WHEN I HEARD THAT FRIGGING NOISE, THAT'S WHEN SAW THE BUILDING COMING DOWN.
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/...HIC/9110035.PDF
First notice he and everyone else was scared of TERRORISTS. What do TERRORIST DO? They BLOW SHIAT UP. So it's not unreasonable for someone who is thinking TERRORIST to hear the sound of huge concrete floors falling one on top of the other to think "BOMB" first. As I said, No one has ever seen an airplane hit buildings constructed like this and the collapse if this odd combination.
“There was what appeared to be at first an explosion. It appeared at the very top, simultaneously from all four sides, materials shot out horizontally. And then there seemed to be a momentary delay before you could see the beginning of the collapse." --Chief Frank Cruthers
there was what appeared to be at first an explosion. it appeared at the very top, simultaneously from all four sides
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyreg...IC/Cruthers.txt
And why wouldn't floors falling around the building NOT APPEAR to be an EXPLOSION...
Again, just more sounds like explosions as floors ram into each other. Note he doesn't say he SAW three explosions.
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/...HIC/9110202.PDF
And here is the outright LIE...
Again, just more sounds like explosions as floors ram into each other. Note he doesn't say he SAW three explosions.
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/...HIC/9110202.PDF
And here is the outright LIE...
“ we heard explosions coming from building two, the south tower. It seemed like it took forever, but there were about ten explosions. . . . We then realized the building started to come down.” -- Firefighter Craig Carlsen
Note where these lairs but the "...."
Now for the REAL quote...
I guess about three minutes later you just heard explosions coming from building two, the south tower. It seemed like it took forever, but there were about ten explosions. At the time I didn't realize what it was. We realized later after talking and finding out that it was the floors collapsing to where the plane had hit.
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/...HIC/9110505.PDF
With that alone I should rest my case. These CT sites are dishonest.
Here is the other lie, they split up these quote to make it seem like there are more than hey really are. You have paramedic Daniel Rivera and Stephen Gregory split up as if there are different accounts. They are the same account. What other reason would they have for splitting them up???
MY BACK WAS TOWARDS THE BUILDING, TRYING TO PUSH EVERYBODY UP.
GRASSY HILL WAS THERE AND UP UNDERNEATH THAT OVERPASS, WHEN SOMEBODY JUST SIMPLY SHOUTED AND I HAVE NO IDEA WHO IT WAS, "ITS BLOWING".
I HAD NO CLUE WHAT WAS GOING ON. I NEVER TURNED AROUND BECAUSE A SOUND CAME FROM SOMEWHERE THAT NEVER HEARD BEFORE. SOME PEOPLE COMPARED IT WITH AN AIRPLANE. IT WAS THE WORST SOUND OF ROLLING SOUND, NOT A THUNDER CANT EXPLAIN IT, WHAT IT WAS. ALL I
KNOW IS -- AND FORCE STARTED TO COME HIT ME IN MY BACK. I CANT EXPLAIN IT. YOU HAD TO BE THERE. ALL I KNOW IS -- HAD TO RUN BECAUSE I THOUGHT THERE WAS AN EXPLOSION.
...I WAS UNAWARE WHAT WAS HAPPENING. I THOUGHT
IT WAS JUST MAJOR EXPLOSION I DIDNT KNOW THE BUILDING WAS COLLAPSING
SOMEWHERE AROUND THE MIDDLE OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER, THERE WAS THIS ORANGE AND RED FLASH COMING OUT. INITIALLY IT WAS JUST ONE FLASH. THEN THIS FLASH JUST KEPT POPPING ALL THE WAY AROUND THE BUILDING AND THAT BUILDING HAD STARTED TO EXPLODE. THE POPPING SOUND, AND WITH EACH POPPING SOUND IT WAS INITIALLY AN ORANGE AND THEN RED FLASH CAME OUT OF THE BUILDING AND THEN IT WOULD JUST GO ALL AROUND THE BUILDING ON BOTH SIDES AS FAR AS COULD SEE. THESE POPPING SOUNDS AND THE EXPLOSIONS WERE GETTING BIGGER GOING BOTH UP AND DOWN AND THEN ALL AROUND THE BUILDING.
It's time to see a transformer explosion.
http://www.stupidcollege.com/items/Electri...ormer-Explosion
All these buildings had transformers and transformer vaults.
SO HERE THESE EXPLOSIONS ARE GETTING BIGGER AND LOUDER AND BIGGER AND LOUDER AND I TOLD EVERYBODY IF THIS BUILDING TOTALLY EXPLODES, STILL UNAWARE THAT THE OTHER BUILDING HAD COLLAPSED, IM GOING IN THE WATER.
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/...HIC/9110192.PDF
MY BACK WAS TOWARDS THE BUILDING, TRYING TO PUSH EVERYBODY UP.
GRASSY HILL WAS THERE AND UP UNDERNEATH THAT OVERPASS, WHEN SOMEBODY JUST SIMPLY SHOUTED AND I HAVE NO IDEA WHO IT WAS, "ITS BLOWING".
I HAD NO CLUE WHAT WAS GOING ON. I NEVER TURNED AROUND BECAUSE A SOUND CAME FROM SOMEWHERE THAT NEVER HEARD BEFORE. SOME PEOPLE COMPARED IT WITH AN AIRPLANE. IT WAS THE WORST SOUND OF ROLLING SOUND, NOT A THUNDER CANT EXPLAIN IT, WHAT IT WAS. ALL I
KNOW IS -- AND FORCE STARTED TO COME HIT ME IN MY BACK. I CANT EXPLAIN IT. YOU HAD TO BE THERE. ALL I KNOW IS -- HAD TO RUN BECAUSE I THOUGHT THERE WAS AN EXPLOSION.
...I WAS UNAWARE WHAT WAS HAPPENING. I THOUGHT
IT WAS JUST MAJOR EXPLOSION I DIDNT KNOW THE BUILDING WAS COLLAPSING
SOMEWHERE AROUND THE MIDDLE OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER, THERE WAS THIS ORANGE AND RED FLASH COMING OUT. INITIALLY IT WAS JUST ONE FLASH. THEN THIS FLASH JUST KEPT POPPING ALL THE WAY AROUND THE BUILDING AND THAT BUILDING HAD STARTED TO EXPLODE. THE POPPING SOUND, AND WITH EACH POPPING SOUND IT WAS INITIALLY AN ORANGE AND THEN RED FLASH CAME OUT OF THE BUILDING AND THEN IT WOULD JUST GO ALL AROUND THE BUILDING ON BOTH SIDES AS FAR AS COULD SEE. THESE POPPING SOUNDS AND THE EXPLOSIONS WERE GETTING BIGGER GOING BOTH UP AND DOWN AND THEN ALL AROUND THE BUILDING.
It's time to see a transformer explosion.
http://www.stupidcollege.com/items/Electri...ormer-Explosion
All these buildings had transformers and transformer vaults.
SO HERE THESE EXPLOSIONS ARE GETTING BIGGER AND LOUDER AND BIGGER AND LOUDER AND I TOLD EVERYBODY IF THIS BUILDING TOTALLY EXPLODES, STILL UNAWARE THAT THE OTHER BUILDING HAD COLLAPSED, IM GOING IN THE WATER.
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/...HIC/9110192.PDF
“I took a quick glance at the building and while I didn't see it falling, I saw a large section of it blasting out, which led me to believe it was just an explosion.” -- Captain Jay Swithers
When I was giving her the oxygen, setting up the tank, you could hear a loud rumble. Somebody said run for your life. I turned to see who was yelling "run".
At that point I looked back and most of the people who were triaged in that area with the triage tags on them got up and ran. I took a quick glance at the building and while I didn't see it falling, I saw a large section of it blasting out, which led me to believe it was just an explosion. I thought it was a secondary device, but I knew that we had to go.
But one thing that did happen was an ambulance pulled up which was very clean. So I assumed that the vehicle had not been in the - what I thought was an explosion at the time, but was the first collapse.
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/...HIC/9110172.PDF
First he heard the rumble. Not the so called "Explosion" which he never saw. Then he thought he heard an explosion because he saw the debris falling away from the building. He had TERRORIST on his mind and jumped to the conclusion that it was a bomb. You don't have to be a psychologist here.
This is pulled straight out of someones a$$. There is NO Paul Isaac on the record saying anything of the kind. Another CT deception.
Fire officer Paul Isaac Jr. asserted that 9-11 was an inside job last September 11 at ground zero where mourners and protesters were gathered; “I know 9-11 was an inside job. The police know it’s an inside job; and the firemen know it too”, said Isaac.
http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/bombs_inside_wtc.html
Goodafternoon,
In fact, he's back in America just to honor your work.
What happened to your ridiculous concrete core theory? You know, the elevator cannon barrel. which should have sent elevators and landings into low earth orbit. Heh!
Your photograph is fitting since you think hes loved by more than people love Jesus.
The man, the myth, the conspiracy theory.
QUOTE (hereward+Mar 12 2006, 01:00 PM)
FIRE PATROLMAN PAUL CURRAN
At that time I went back to the north tower again, and they were stretching a line. A lot of car fires erupted. All of a sudden cars were blowing up everywhere.
I went back and I helped a guy stretch a line. The guy was all by himself. I helped him stretch a line and started putting water on the car fires. I remember distinctly walking past 118 Truck. 118 Truck was parked right on West Street north of Vesey
*********************************************
EMT FREDDY BURGOS
When the first building came down, after the dust lifted from that one, in front of me, the other ambulances, most of them not Fire Department, private or some other ambulances, burning.
FIREFIGHTER RICHARD CARLETTI
Basically they wanted engines was booster tanks to come down and extinguish the car fires then going.
FIREFIGHTER RONALD CIFU
Even after the collapse when we were starting to relay water to the car fires.
many of the firemen reported this. Lots of the cars and fire engines and ambulances parked along West HW and Vesey and Liberty exploded.
www.nytimes.com/pages/nyr...onspecial3 /
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
EMT PATRICIA ONDROVIC File No. 9 1 10048
graphics8.nytimes.com/pac...110048.PDF
En route to the alarm, I saw the two towers burning. We parked in the middle of Vesey Street between West and the West Side Highway. My partner and I grabbed our stretcher, went to put it in the back of our vehicle, and at that time, I think it was the lobby of the building behind us blew out.
Everybody started running, I didn't see him again that day. He got thrown one way, I got thrown the other way. Stuffs blowing up. So I ran back out and I started running west again on Vesey. At that point, there was a car on the corner of the West Side Highway.
As I was running up Vesey, the first car blew up on me on the corner of Vessey and the West Side Highway. That set my turnout coat on fire, that set my hair on fire. I kept running. I ended up running through this park, and I couldn't even see where I was running anymore. I kept running North through North Park. As I was running up here, two or three more cars exploded on me. They weren't near any buildings at that point, they were just parked on the street. Stuff is still blowing up behind me, as I'm running. I can hear stuff exploding. I could hear rumbling, the street under me was moving like I was in an earthquake. (this was obviously when WTC2 fell). I've been in those, so I know what they feel like. It felt like an earthquake. There was no where safe to go. As I was running north in this park, and then I could start seeing again a little bit, and I just kept looking in the sky.
And firemen's fireproof coats-like this ladies and socks caught fire.
RONALD COYNE EMT WTC2
MY SAFETY COAT WAS ALREADY ON FIRE. MY SOCKS WERE ON FIRE
I was just covered with burns and bruises and I could hardly breathe.
img.photobucket.com/album...rist41.jpg
img.photobucket.com/album...rist19.jpg
img.photobucket.com/album...age012.jpg
img.photobucket.com/album...rist17.jpg
At that time I went back to the north tower again, and they were stretching a line. A lot of car fires erupted. All of a sudden cars were blowing up everywhere.
I went back and I helped a guy stretch a line. The guy was all by himself. I helped him stretch a line and started putting water on the car fires. I remember distinctly walking past 118 Truck. 118 Truck was parked right on West Street north of Vesey
*********************************************
EMT FREDDY BURGOS
When the first building came down, after the dust lifted from that one, in front of me, the other ambulances, most of them not Fire Department, private or some other ambulances, burning.
FIREFIGHTER RICHARD CARLETTI
Basically they wanted engines was booster tanks to come down and extinguish the car fires then going.
FIREFIGHTER RONALD CIFU
Even after the collapse when we were starting to relay water to the car fires.
many of the firemen reported this. Lots of the cars and fire engines and ambulances parked along West HW and Vesey and Liberty exploded.
www.nytimes.com/pages/nyr...onspecial3 /
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
EMT PATRICIA ONDROVIC File No. 9 1 10048
graphics8.nytimes.com/pac...110048.PDF
En route to the alarm, I saw the two towers burning. We parked in the middle of Vesey Street between West and the West Side Highway. My partner and I grabbed our stretcher, went to put it in the back of our vehicle, and at that time, I think it was the lobby of the building behind us blew out.
Everybody started running, I didn't see him again that day. He got thrown one way, I got thrown the other way. Stuffs blowing up. So I ran back out and I started running west again on Vesey. At that point, there was a car on the corner of the West Side Highway.
As I was running up Vesey, the first car blew up on me on the corner of Vessey and the West Side Highway. That set my turnout coat on fire, that set my hair on fire. I kept running. I ended up running through this park, and I couldn't even see where I was running anymore. I kept running North through North Park. As I was running up here, two or three more cars exploded on me. They weren't near any buildings at that point, they were just parked on the street. Stuff is still blowing up behind me, as I'm running. I can hear stuff exploding. I could hear rumbling, the street under me was moving like I was in an earthquake. (this was obviously when WTC2 fell). I've been in those, so I know what they feel like. It felt like an earthquake. There was no where safe to go. As I was running north in this park, and then I could start seeing again a little bit, and I just kept looking in the sky.
And firemen's fireproof coats-like this ladies and socks caught fire.
RONALD COYNE EMT WTC2
MY SAFETY COAT WAS ALREADY ON FIRE. MY SOCKS WERE ON FIRE
I was just covered with burns and bruises and I could hardly breathe.
img.photobucket.com/album...rist41.jpg
img.photobucket.com/album...rist19.jpg
img.photobucket.com/album...age012.jpg
img.photobucket.com/album...rist17.jpg
QUOTE
“I just remember there was just an explosion. It seemed like on television [when] they blow up these buildings. It seemed like it was going all the way around like a belt, all these explosions.”--Firefighter Richard Banaciski
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyreg...ski_Richard.txt
What do you expect the floors to sound like as they drop, one next to the other? If it didn't SEEM like explosions I would worry we weren't on earth.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| “I just remember there was just an explosion. It seemed like on television [when] they blow up these buildings. It seemed like it was going all the way around like a belt, all these explosions.”--Firefighter Richard Banaciski |
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyreg...ski_Richard.txt
What do you expect the floors to sound like as they drop, one next to the other? If it didn't SEEM like explosions I would worry we weren't on earth.
“I saw a flash flash flash [at] the lower level of the building. You know like when they demolish a building?”--Assistant Fire Commissioner Stephen Gregory
This was one of those quotes taken out of context I told you about. Now the WHOLE QUOTE without the taking out of context part...
I know I was with an officer from Ladder 146, a Lieutenant Evangelista, who ultimately called me up a couple of days later just to find out how I was. We both for whatever reason -- again, I don't know how valid this is with everything that was going on at that particular point in time, but for some reason I thought that when I looked in the direction of the Trade Center before it came down, before No. 2 came down, that I saw low-leve] flashes. In my conversation with Lieutenant Evangelista, never mentioning this to him, he questioned me and asked me if I saw low-level flashes in front of the building, and I agreed with him because I thought -- at that time I didn't know what it was. I mean, it could have been as a result of the building collapsing, things exploding, but I saw a flash flash flash and then it looked like the building came down.
Q.: Was that on the lower level of the building or up where the fire was?
A: No, the lower level of the building. You know like when they demolish a building, how when they blow up a building, when it falls down? That's what I thought I saw. And I didn't broach the topic to him, but he asked me. He said I don't know if I'm crazy, but I just wanted to ask you because you were standing right next to me. He said did you see anything by the building? And I said what do you mean by see anything? He said did yc.u see any flashes? I said, yes, well, I thought it was just me. He said no, I saw them, too.
I don't know if that means anything. I mean, I equate it to the building cowing down and pushing things down, it could have been electrical explosions, it could have been whatever.
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyreg...ory_Stephen.txt
Let me guess why they left that important part out..
QUOTE
“[I]t was [like a] professional demolition where they set the charges on certain floors and then you hear 'Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop'."--Paramedic Daniel Rivera
SO WE WERE PRETTY MUCH-MOST OF THE WORKERS WERE INSIDE THIS BUILDING. I LIKE SAID, I DONT KNOW IF ITS FIVE WORLD TRADE CENTER OR FOUR WORLD TRADE CENTER. MOST OF THEM WERE IN THE BUILDING BECAUSE THE CHIEF OR THE CAPTAIN SAID IF YOU WANT YOU CAN STAY INSIDE THAT BUILDING. BUT I DIDNT FEEL SAFE BECAUSE I KNEW IT WAS TERRORIST ATTACK SO I WAS SCARED. EVERY TIME YOU HEAR PLANE EVERYONE WOULD RUN. SO I PRETTY MUCH STOOD AROUND HERE SOMEWHERE. I WOULD SEE TRIAGE, BUT I WAS PRETTY MUCH IN BETWEEN THE TWO BUILDINGS.
THEN THAT'S WHEN-I KEPT ON WALKING CLOSE TO THE SOUTH TOWER, AND THAT'S WHEN THAT BUILDING COLLAPSED.
Q: HOW DID YOU KNOWTHAT IT WAS COMING DOWN?
A: THAT NOISE .IT WAS NOISE.
Q: WHAT DID YOU HEAR? WHAT DID YOU SEE?
A: IT WAS A FRIGGING NOISE. AT FIRST I THOUGHT IT WAS-DO YOU EVER SEE PROFESSIONAL DEMOLITION WHERE THEY SET THE CHARGES ON CERTAIN FLOORS AND THEN YOU HEAR "POP, POP, POP, POP, POP"? THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT-BECAUSE I THOUGHT IT WAS THAT WHEN I HEARD THAT FRIGGING NOISE, THAT'S WHEN SAW THE BUILDING COMING DOWN.
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/...HIC/9110035.PDF
First notice he and everyone else was scared of TERRORISTS. What do TERRORIST DO? They BLOW SHIAT UP. So it's not unreasonable for someone who is thinking TERRORIST to hear the sound of huge concrete floors falling one on top of the other to think "BOMB" first. As I said, No one has ever seen an airplane hit buildings constructed like this and the collapse if this odd combination.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| “[I]t was [like a] professional demolition where they set the charges on certain floors and then you hear 'Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop'."--Paramedic Daniel Rivera |
SO WE WERE PRETTY MUCH-MOST OF THE WORKERS WERE INSIDE THIS BUILDING. I LIKE SAID, I DONT KNOW IF ITS FIVE WORLD TRADE CENTER OR FOUR WORLD TRADE CENTER. MOST OF THEM WERE IN THE BUILDING BECAUSE THE CHIEF OR THE CAPTAIN SAID IF YOU WANT YOU CAN STAY INSIDE THAT BUILDING. BUT I DIDNT FEEL SAFE BECAUSE I KNEW IT WAS TERRORIST ATTACK SO I WAS SCARED. EVERY TIME YOU HEAR PLANE EVERYONE WOULD RUN. SO I PRETTY MUCH STOOD AROUND HERE SOMEWHERE. I WOULD SEE TRIAGE, BUT I WAS PRETTY MUCH IN BETWEEN THE TWO BUILDINGS.
THEN THAT'S WHEN-I KEPT ON WALKING CLOSE TO THE SOUTH TOWER, AND THAT'S WHEN THAT BUILDING COLLAPSED.
Q: HOW DID YOU KNOWTHAT IT WAS COMING DOWN?
A: THAT NOISE .IT WAS NOISE.
Q: WHAT DID YOU HEAR? WHAT DID YOU SEE?
A: IT WAS A FRIGGING NOISE. AT FIRST I THOUGHT IT WAS-DO YOU EVER SEE PROFESSIONAL DEMOLITION WHERE THEY SET THE CHARGES ON CERTAIN FLOORS AND THEN YOU HEAR "POP, POP, POP, POP, POP"? THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT-BECAUSE I THOUGHT IT WAS THAT WHEN I HEARD THAT FRIGGING NOISE, THAT'S WHEN SAW THE BUILDING COMING DOWN.
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/...HIC/9110035.PDF
First notice he and everyone else was scared of TERRORISTS. What do TERRORIST DO? They BLOW SHIAT UP. So it's not unreasonable for someone who is thinking TERRORIST to hear the sound of huge concrete floors falling one on top of the other to think "BOMB" first. As I said, No one has ever seen an airplane hit buildings constructed like this and the collapse if this odd combination.
“There was what appeared to be at first an explosion. It appeared at the very top, simultaneously from all four sides, materials shot out horizontally. And then there seemed to be a momentary delay before you could see the beginning of the collapse." --Chief Frank Cruthers
there was what appeared to be at first an explosion. it appeared at the very top, simultaneously from all four sides
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyreg...IC/Cruthers.txt
And why wouldn't floors falling around the building NOT APPEAR to be an EXPLOSION...
QUOTE
"I started walking back up towards Vesey Street. I heard three explosions, and then we heard like groaning and grinding, and tower two started to come down.” --Paramedic Kevin Darnowski
Again, just more sounds like explosions as floors ram into each other. Note he doesn't say he SAW three explosions.
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/...HIC/9110202.PDF
And here is the outright LIE...
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| "I started walking back up towards Vesey Street. I heard three explosions, and then we heard like groaning and grinding, and tower two started to come down.” --Paramedic Kevin Darnowski |
Again, just more sounds like explosions as floors ram into each other. Note he doesn't say he SAW three explosions.
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/...HIC/9110202.PDF
And here is the outright LIE...
“ we heard explosions coming from building two, the south tower. It seemed like it took forever, but there were about ten explosions. . . . We then realized the building started to come down.” -- Firefighter Craig Carlsen
Note where these lairs but the "...."
Now for the REAL quote...
I guess about three minutes later you just heard explosions coming from building two, the south tower. It seemed like it took forever, but there were about ten explosions. At the time I didn't realize what it was. We realized later after talking and finding out that it was the floors collapsing to where the plane had hit.
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/...HIC/9110505.PDF
With that alone I should rest my case.
These CT sites are dishonest.Here is the other lie, they split up these quote to make it seem like there are more than hey really are. You have paramedic Daniel Rivera and Stephen Gregory split up as if there are different accounts. They are the same account. What other reason would they have for splitting them up???
QUOTE
“Then this flash just kept popping all the way around the building and that building had started to explode. The popping sound, and with each popping sound it was initially an orange and then a red flash came out of the building and then it would just go all around the building on both sides as far as I could see. These popping sounds and the explosions were getting bigger, going both up and down and then all around the building." -- Captain Karin Deshore
MY BACK WAS TOWARDS THE BUILDING, TRYING TO PUSH EVERYBODY UP.
GRASSY HILL WAS THERE AND UP UNDERNEATH THAT OVERPASS, WHEN SOMEBODY JUST SIMPLY SHOUTED AND I HAVE NO IDEA WHO IT WAS, "ITS BLOWING".
I HAD NO CLUE WHAT WAS GOING ON. I NEVER TURNED AROUND BECAUSE A SOUND CAME FROM SOMEWHERE THAT NEVER HEARD BEFORE. SOME PEOPLE COMPARED IT WITH AN AIRPLANE. IT WAS THE WORST SOUND OF ROLLING SOUND, NOT A THUNDER CANT EXPLAIN IT, WHAT IT WAS. ALL I
KNOW IS -- AND FORCE STARTED TO COME HIT ME IN MY BACK. I CANT EXPLAIN IT. YOU HAD TO BE THERE. ALL I KNOW IS -- HAD TO RUN BECAUSE I THOUGHT THERE WAS AN EXPLOSION.
...I WAS UNAWARE WHAT WAS HAPPENING. I THOUGHT
IT WAS JUST MAJOR EXPLOSION I DIDNT KNOW THE BUILDING WAS COLLAPSING
SOMEWHERE AROUND THE MIDDLE OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER, THERE WAS THIS ORANGE AND RED FLASH COMING OUT. INITIALLY IT WAS JUST ONE FLASH. THEN THIS FLASH JUST KEPT POPPING ALL THE WAY AROUND THE BUILDING AND THAT BUILDING HAD STARTED TO EXPLODE. THE POPPING SOUND, AND WITH EACH POPPING SOUND IT WAS INITIALLY AN ORANGE AND THEN RED FLASH CAME OUT OF THE BUILDING AND THEN IT WOULD JUST GO ALL AROUND THE BUILDING ON BOTH SIDES AS FAR AS COULD SEE. THESE POPPING SOUNDS AND THE EXPLOSIONS WERE GETTING BIGGER GOING BOTH UP AND DOWN AND THEN ALL AROUND THE BUILDING.
It's time to see a transformer explosion.
http://www.stupidcollege.com/items/Electri...ormer-Explosion
All these buildings had transformers and transformer vaults.
SO HERE THESE EXPLOSIONS ARE GETTING BIGGER AND LOUDER AND BIGGER AND LOUDER AND I TOLD EVERYBODY IF THIS BUILDING TOTALLY EXPLODES, STILL UNAWARE THAT THE OTHER BUILDING HAD COLLAPSED, IM GOING IN THE WATER.
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/...HIC/9110192.PDF
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| “Then this flash just kept popping all the way around the building and that building had started to explode. The popping sound, and with each popping sound it was initially an orange and then a red flash came out of the building and then it would just go all around the building on both sides as far as I could see. These popping sounds and the explosions were getting bigger, going both up and down and then all around the building." -- Captain Karin Deshore |
MY BACK WAS TOWARDS THE BUILDING, TRYING TO PUSH EVERYBODY UP.
GRASSY HILL WAS THERE AND UP UNDERNEATH THAT OVERPASS, WHEN SOMEBODY JUST SIMPLY SHOUTED AND I HAVE NO IDEA WHO IT WAS, "ITS BLOWING".
I HAD NO CLUE WHAT WAS GOING ON. I NEVER TURNED AROUND BECAUSE A SOUND CAME FROM SOMEWHERE THAT NEVER HEARD BEFORE. SOME PEOPLE COMPARED IT WITH AN AIRPLANE. IT WAS THE WORST SOUND OF ROLLING SOUND, NOT A THUNDER CANT EXPLAIN IT, WHAT IT WAS. ALL I
KNOW IS -- AND FORCE STARTED TO COME HIT ME IN MY BACK. I CANT EXPLAIN IT. YOU HAD TO BE THERE. ALL I KNOW IS -- HAD TO RUN BECAUSE I THOUGHT THERE WAS AN EXPLOSION.
...I WAS UNAWARE WHAT WAS HAPPENING. I THOUGHT
IT WAS JUST MAJOR EXPLOSION I DIDNT KNOW THE BUILDING WAS COLLAPSING
SOMEWHERE AROUND THE MIDDLE OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER, THERE WAS THIS ORANGE AND RED FLASH COMING OUT. INITIALLY IT WAS JUST ONE FLASH. THEN THIS FLASH JUST KEPT POPPING ALL THE WAY AROUND THE BUILDING AND THAT BUILDING HAD STARTED TO EXPLODE. THE POPPING SOUND, AND WITH EACH POPPING SOUND IT WAS INITIALLY AN ORANGE AND THEN RED FLASH CAME OUT OF THE BUILDING AND THEN IT WOULD JUST GO ALL AROUND THE BUILDING ON BOTH SIDES AS FAR AS COULD SEE. THESE POPPING SOUNDS AND THE EXPLOSIONS WERE GETTING BIGGER GOING BOTH UP AND DOWN AND THEN ALL AROUND THE BUILDING.
It's time to see a transformer explosion.
http://www.stupidcollege.com/items/Electri...ormer-Explosion
All these buildings had transformers and transformer vaults.
SO HERE THESE EXPLOSIONS ARE GETTING BIGGER AND LOUDER AND BIGGER AND LOUDER AND I TOLD EVERYBODY IF THIS BUILDING TOTALLY EXPLODES, STILL UNAWARE THAT THE OTHER BUILDING HAD COLLAPSED, IM GOING IN THE WATER.
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/...HIC/9110192.PDF
“I took a quick glance at the building and while I didn't see it falling, I saw a large section of it blasting out, which led me to believe it was just an explosion.” -- Captain Jay Swithers
When I was giving her the oxygen, setting up the tank, you could hear a loud rumble. Somebody said run for your life. I turned to see who was yelling "run".
At that point I looked back and most of the people who were triaged in that area with the triage tags on them got up and ran. I took a quick glance at the building and while I didn't see it falling, I saw a large section of it blasting out, which led me to believe it was just an explosion. I thought it was a secondary device, but I knew that we had to go.
But one thing that did happen was an ambulance pulled up which was very clean. So I assumed that the vehicle had not been in the - what I thought was an explosion at the time, but was the first collapse.
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/...HIC/9110172.PDF
First he heard the rumble. Not the so called "Explosion" which he never saw. Then he thought he heard an explosion because he saw the debris falling away from the building. He had TERRORIST on his mind and jumped to the conclusion that it was a bomb. You don't have to be a psychologist here.
QUOTE
"there were definitely bombs in those buildings,” Isaac added that “many other firemen know there were bombs in the buildings, but they’re afraid for their jobs to admit it because the ‘higher-ups’ forbid discussion of this fact.” --Auxiliary Lieutenant Fireman Paul Isaac
This is pulled straight out of someones a$$. There is NO Paul Isaac on the record saying anything of the kind. Another CT deception.
Fire officer Paul Isaac Jr. asserted that 9-11 was an inside job last September 11 at ground zero where mourners and protesters were gathered; “I know 9-11 was an inside job. The police know it’s an inside job; and the firemen know it too”, said Isaac.
http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/bombs_inside_wtc.html
Goodafternoon,
QUOTE (Commen sense+Mar 12 2006, 06:34 PM)
QUOTE (Guest+Mar 12 2006, 11:25 AM)
QUOTE (Commen sense+Mar 12 2006, 03:37 AM)
QUOTE (Guest+Mar 12 2006, 03:19 AM)
QUOTE (adoucette+Mar 12 2006, 01:41 AM)
When I'm gone from this Earth I SINCERELY hope that I'm talked about for as long and as often as the CT'ers have talked about Schneibster since he's been gone.
Threatening to axe someone you disagree with on a public physics forum does tend to leave a lasting impression. Wouldn't you agree? No?
I guess if your stupid enough to to think he could go through the monitor...
Did I forget to add the "I will hunt you down" part. So sorry. It says a lot about the murderer car that this guy is their hero for whom they feel such an obligation to come to his defense.
I forgot to add "If you're stupid enough to think it's easy to hunt someone down on an internet forum or go through the monitor.."
I'm going to hunt you down, slice your back open and through salt in the wound.
Is it not a little ironic that someone so concerned about all of the unjustified death in Iraq is willing to beget and support such violent imagery. Only too appropriate for the psycopaths in the murderer car. I can't wait for what's next.
Threatening to axe someone you disagree with on a public physics forum does tend to leave a lasting impression. Wouldn't you agree? No?
I guess if your stupid enough to to think he could go through the monitor...
Did I forget to add the "I will hunt you down" part. So sorry. It says a lot about the murderer car that this guy is their hero for whom they feel such an obligation to come to his defense.
I forgot to add "If you're stupid enough to think it's easy to hunt someone down on an internet forum or go through the monitor.."
I'm going to hunt you down, slice your back open and through salt in the wound.
Is it not a little ironic that someone so concerned about all of the unjustified death in Iraq is willing to beget and support such violent imagery. Only too appropriate for the psycopaths in the murderer car. I can't wait for what's next.
QUOTE (shagster+Mar 12 2006, 10:49 AM)
The video showed it oscillating at the end of the collapse. It was struck by debris and floor sections got pulled off of it which imparted forces on it. The vibrations of the ground left over from the collapse put some energy into it also. Gravity will also effect it. That pic I posted of the single column spire is tilted slightly. That feature was all the way up to about the 75th floor. That's not going to remain stable for long unless it was perfectly vertical and no wind disturbing it.
If the core remants of the north tower still had the floors and perimeter together with it to add rigidity it would have been better able to resist forces non-compressive stresses. The north spire/feature didn't look like a complete core either. It looked more like a wall or perhaps two wall-like sections. I'd still like to see a video of what the remnant core in the south tower looked like as it collapsed. I've only see one still of it when it could be seen through the dust.
I agree this might be possible If the core columns were disconected from the girders, reinforced concrete floors and foundation.
Gravity driven collapse doesn’t have a mechanism for this.
Controlled demolition does.
If the core remants of the north tower still had the floors and perimeter together with it to add rigidity it would have been better able to resist forces non-compressive stresses. The north spire/feature didn't look like a complete core either. It looked more like a wall or perhaps two wall-like sections. I'd still like to see a video of what the remnant core in the south tower looked like as it collapsed. I've only see one still of it when it could be seen through the dust.
I agree this might be possible If the core columns were disconected from the girders, reinforced concrete floors and foundation.
Gravity driven collapse doesn’t have a mechanism for this.
Controlled demolition does.
QUOTE (Guest+Mar 12 2006, 02:15 PM)
QUOTE (Commen sense+Mar 12 2006, 06:34 PM)
QUOTE (Guest+Mar 12 2006, 11:25 AM)
QUOTE (Commen sense+Mar 12 2006, 03:37 AM)
QUOTE (Guest+Mar 12 2006, 03:19 AM)
QUOTE (adoucette+Mar 12 2006, 01:41 AM)
When I'm gone from this Earth I SINCERELY hope that I'm talked about for as long and as often as the CT'ers have talked about Schneibster since he's been gone.
Threatening to axe someone you disagree with on a public physics forum does tend to leave a lasting impression. Wouldn't you agree? No?
I guess if your stupid enough to to think he could go through the monitor...
Did I forget to add the "I will hunt you down" part. So sorry. It says a lot about the murderer car that this guy is their hero for whom they feel such an obligation to come to his defense.
I forgot to add "If you're stupid enough to think it's easy to hunt someone down on an internet forum or go through the monitor.."
I'm going to hunt you down, slice your back open and through salt in the wound.
Is it not a little ironic that someone so concerned about all of the unjustified death in Iraq is willing to beget and support such violent imagery. Only too appropriate for the psycopaths in the murderer car. I can't wait for what's next.
I didn't think you took it seriously. It only proves what an idiot you are.
I agree this might be possible If the core columns were disconected from the girders, reinforced concrete floors and foundation.
Gravity driven collapse doesn’t have a mechanism for this.
Controlled demolition does.
Gravity would certainly effect the lone spire feature and a wall-type structure. That single column spire feature was probably around 300 to 400 feet length and perhaps 2 feet wide. That's an aspect ratio near 200. The wall-like core structure was of comparable length.
Try building a model of something smaller, say 3 inch dia pvc pipe made of 2-foot sections joined with relatively weak joints. Extend it up about 50 feet and see if it can be kept standing vertical while only the bottom is held. A wall structure would also be unstable. If gravity truly isn't a factor, this should be easy to accomplish.
I agree this might be possible If the core columns were disconected from the girders, reinforced concrete floors and foundation.
Gravity driven collapse doesn’t have a mechanism for this.
Controlled demolition does.
Gravity would certainly effect the lone spire feature and a wall-type structure. That single column spire feature was probably around 300 to 400 feet length and perhaps 2 feet wide. That's an aspect ratio near 200. The wall-like core structure was of comparable length.
Try building a model of something smaller, say 3 inch dia pvc pipe made of 2-foot sections joined with relatively weak joints. Extend it up about 50 feet and see if it can be kept standing vertical while only the bottom is held. A wall structure would also be unstable. If gravity truly isn't a factor, this should be easy to accomplish.
Here are 3 examples (Were do you get the idea the columns had relatively weak joints?):
Threatening to axe someone you disagree with on a public physics forum does tend to leave a lasting impression. Wouldn't you agree? No?
I guess if your stupid enough to to think he could go through the monitor...
Did I forget to add the "I will hunt you down" part. So sorry. It says a lot about the murderer car that this guy is their hero for whom they feel such an obligation to come to his defense.
I forgot to add "If you're stupid enough to think it's easy to hunt someone down on an internet forum or go through the monitor.."
I'm going to hunt you down, slice your back open and through salt in the wound.
Is it not a little ironic that someone so concerned about all of the unjustified death in Iraq is willing to beget and support such violent imagery. Only too appropriate for the psycopaths in the murderer car. I can't wait for what's next.
I didn't think you took it seriously. It only proves what an idiot you are.
Government covers up freight train accidents…
"The noise sounded like two freight trains going over a trestle right over your head; it was an ugly roar. My wife said the noise when the house went was like a giant pencil sharpener working.”
http://www.crh.noaa.gov/dtx/1953beecher/storiesFJ.php
Did a fright train pass over their head?
“While I was in my kitchen I heard this terrible roar coming," she said. "It sounded like a freight train coming right down my road here”
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/WEATHER/09/02...nado/index.html
It indeed sounded like a freight train roaring past us, and when it was gone, we came out to find things a mess.
http://www.offenburger.com/farmarchive.asp?link=20040906
It came with "the roar of forty freight trains."
http://www.tornadochaser.com/UDALL/reports.htm
“It sounded like a freight train”.
http://www.disasternews.net/news/news.php?articleid=2954
“Before I reached the bottom of the stairs, I heard the sound of a roaring freight train”
"The noise sounded like two freight trains going over a trestle right over your head; it was an ugly roar. My wife said the noise when the house went was like a giant pencil sharpener working.”
http://www.crh.noaa.gov/dtx/1953beecher/storiesFJ.php
Did a fright train pass over their head?
“While I was in my kitchen I heard this terrible roar coming," she said. "It sounded like a freight train coming right down my road here”
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/WEATHER/09/02...nado/index.html
It indeed sounded like a freight train roaring past us, and when it was gone, we came out to find things a mess.
http://www.offenburger.com/farmarchive.asp?link=20040906
It came with "the roar of forty freight trains."
http://www.tornadochaser.com/UDALL/reports.htm
“It sounded like a freight train”.
http://www.disasternews.net/news/news.php?articleid=2954
“Before I reached the bottom of the stairs, I heard the sound of a roaring freight train”
Who would Rove, and co like you to believe is involved in the largest mass murder and cover-up conspiracy in the world? If you ask these conspiracy nuts it’s all these people because none want an investigation…
Lets see...
-Bush, who failed at everything he ever did. He has one of the worse approval ratings of any president rivaling only Nixon during Watergate. Yet all the people below are helping him in one way or another...
-The NYC Fire fighters who know more about building collapses than most if not all of you. It's their LIFE to know. Literally! Yet they don't call for an investigation into the MASS MURDER of over 300 of their brothers... Why? (The twisting of these peoples statements for donations and DVD sales sickens me.) We have uncovered the myth about a gag rule imposed on all fire fighters. Only 9/11 conspiracy sites say this. ONE person who sued Bush for not taking action before the event is ordered by the court not to speak to the media about the case. This is not imposing a gag rule on the whole fire department as some of these sites claim. They are lying to cover up this mass murder for either Bush or the building owner. Why? They don't even know...
CTers bring up an article in Fire House mag which says the fire department wanted to stop the steel from being sold in order to test the fire proofing and other non-bomb/controlled demolition related investigations. They twist the articles context to make it seem like the fire fighters questioned the idea that fire brought down the towers.
http://fe.pennnet.com/Articles/Article_Dis...TICLE_ID=131225
http://fe.pennnet.com/Articles/Article_Dis...TICLE_ID=130026
-The courts for imposing a gag rule [SEE above]
-The NYC Police department who lost over 20 lives. They didn't ask for an investigation. Motive? None...
-The NYC port Authority who lost personel. Motive?
-All the people in the pentagon who have not called for an investigation. Many who are liberal and centrist. They did or said nothing while people supposedly truck in airplane parts to cover the crime. Why? again, no answer...
-The more than 1,600 widows and widowers of 9/11 who rather have investigations of the decisions which lead to the terrorist getting away with this. They don't want to waste time investigating the mass murder of their loved ones. Even the Jersey Girls. Why? They say it's the money... [note: whenever killing someone pay off the relative. They wont say anything.]
-The media (This one I almost believe) who doesn't follow up on the biggest mass murder and conspiracy in American history. It seems no one wants a Nobel prize for journalism. Not only the American media but foreign press like like the BBC and Al Jeezera. Why? No answer here either...
-The photographers from around the world who took pictures of the towers which clearly show bowing of the perimeter columns. These photos support the NIST hypothesis that the sagging trusses lead to the collapse. Some photos also show the core intact shortly after collapse which also not only support the NIST hypothesis but discredits the "Controlled demolition" account.
-Popular Mechanics who debunked these sites are also helping Bush commit the biggest mass murder in history.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html
-PBS Nova since they created a documentary explaining in detail how and why the buildings fell. None of it said bomb.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/wtc/
-Everyone in the NIST who covers up the largest mass murder in US history. This independent org doesn't have a moral person in hundreds of employees because not one has come out exposing this so called "Conspiracy". In fact the hundreds of scientist who signed onto the report are willing to not only lie for Bush but cover up the largest mass murder in American history.
-Pataki because he sold steel to from the WTC for the construction of the USS New York. If the argument is the government sold the steel in order to cover up the crime then Pataki is one of the criminals.
-The NY city scrap yards because they also sold steel to china before all of it was tested. Bush would have needed to call them up and tell them to sell it before they could have investigated every beam. A task which would have taken years and years not to mention millions more. Ironically the republican Mayor Bloomberg could not be involved since he asked the scrap yards not to sell the steel on behalf of the fire fighters.
-EVERY STRUCTUAL ENGINEER IN THE WORLD who doesn't write a paper for a mainstream peer reviewed journal saying the towers were brought down and could not have fallen due to fire. If laymen can prove things just by looking at videos and reading interviews out of context then all those structural engineers MUST be working for Bush right? Even the ones in other countries. Why? No answer...
-The liberals who don't believe the towers were brought down. They're helping a neo-con cover-up the largest mass murder in this nation’s history. Why" No clue...
-The CIA who is in controlling the left wing media.
-anyone who thinks the conspiracy is a diversion to take liberal activist focus off of real crimes.
Even conspiracies with a few people are doomed, Look at Enron and Watergate. The more people you involved the more likely the conspiracy will fall apart. The amount of people needed for this conspiracy could fill one of the towers. It's absurd to think this many people could keep a mass murder for Bush secret for this long. Absurd...
Lets see...
-Bush, who failed at everything he ever did. He has one of the worse approval ratings of any president rivaling only Nixon during Watergate. Yet all the people below are helping him in one way or another...
-The NYC Fire fighters who know more about building collapses than most if not all of you. It's their LIFE to know. Literally! Yet they don't call for an investigation into the MASS MURDER of over 300 of their brothers... Why? (The twisting of these peoples statements for donations and DVD sales sickens me.) We have uncovered the myth about a gag rule imposed on all fire fighters. Only 9/11 conspiracy sites say this. ONE person who sued Bush for not taking action before the event is ordered by the court not to speak to the media about the case. This is not imposing a gag rule on the whole fire department as some of these sites claim. They are lying to cover up this mass murder for either Bush or the building owner. Why? They don't even know...
CTers bring up an article in Fire House mag which says the fire department wanted to stop the steel from being sold in order to test the fire proofing and other non-bomb/controlled demolition related investigations. They twist the articles context to make it seem like the fire fighters questioned the idea that fire brought down the towers.
http://fe.pennnet.com/Articles/Article_Dis...TICLE_ID=131225
http://fe.pennnet.com/Articles/Article_Dis...TICLE_ID=130026
-The courts for imposing a gag rule [SEE above]
-The NYC Police department who lost over 20 lives. They didn't ask for an investigation. Motive? None...
-The NYC port Authority who lost personel. Motive?
-All the people in the pentagon who have not called for an investigation. Many who are liberal and centrist. They did or said nothing while people supposedly truck in airplane parts to cover the crime. Why? again, no answer...
-The more than 1,600 widows and widowers of 9/11 who rather have investigations of the decisions which lead to the terrorist getting away with this. They don't want to waste time investigating the mass murder of their loved ones. Even the Jersey Girls. Why? They say it's the money... [note: whenever killing someone pay off the relative. They wont say anything.]
-The media (This one I almost believe) who doesn't follow up on the biggest mass murder and conspiracy in American history. It seems no one wants a Nobel prize for journalism. Not only the American media but foreign press like like the BBC and Al Jeezera. Why? No answer here either...
-The photographers from around the world who took pictures of the towers which clearly show bowing of the perimeter columns. These photos support the NIST hypothesis that the sagging trusses lead to the collapse. Some photos also show the core intact shortly after collapse which also not only support the NIST hypothesis but discredits the "Controlled demolition" account.
-Popular Mechanics who debunked these sites are also helping Bush commit the biggest mass murder in history.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html
-PBS Nova since they created a documentary explaining in detail how and why the buildings fell. None of it said bomb.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/wtc/
-Everyone in the NIST who covers up the largest mass murder in US history. This independent org doesn't have a moral person in hundreds of employees because not one has come out exposing this so called "Conspiracy". In fact the hundreds of scientist who signed onto the report are willing to not only lie for Bush but cover up the largest mass murder in American history.
-Pataki because he sold steel to from the WTC for the construction of the USS New York. If the argument is the government sold the steel in order to cover up the crime then Pataki is one of the criminals.
-The NY city scrap yards because they also sold steel to china before all of it was tested. Bush would have needed to call them up and tell them to sell it before they could have investigated every beam. A task which would have taken years and years not to mention millions more. Ironically the republican Mayor Bloomberg could not be involved since he asked the scrap yards not to sell the steel on behalf of the fire fighters.
-EVERY STRUCTUAL ENGINEER IN THE WORLD who doesn't write a paper for a mainstream peer reviewed journal saying the towers were brought down and could not have fallen due to fire. If laymen can prove things just by looking at videos and reading interviews out of context then all those structural engineers MUST be working for Bush right? Even the ones in other countries. Why? No answer...
-The liberals who don't believe the towers were brought down. They're helping a neo-con cover-up the largest mass murder in this nation’s history. Why" No clue...
-The CIA who is in controlling the left wing media.
-anyone who thinks the conspiracy is a diversion to take liberal activist focus off of real crimes.
Even conspiracies with a few people are doomed, Look at Enron and Watergate. The more people you involved the more likely the conspiracy will fall apart. The amount of people needed for this conspiracy could fill one of the towers. It's absurd to think this many people could keep a mass murder for Bush secret for this long. Absurd...
QUOTE (reasonwhy+Mar 12 2006, 07:15 PM)
I agree this might be possible If the core columns were disconected from the girders, reinforced concrete floors and foundation.
Gravity driven collapse doesn’t have a mechanism for this.
Controlled demolition does.
Gravity would certainly effect the lone spire feature and a wall-type structure. That single column spire feature was probably around 300 to 400 feet length and perhaps 2 feet wide. That's an aspect ratio near 200. The wall-like core structure was of comparable length.
Try building a model of something smaller, say 3 inch dia pvc pipe made of 2-foot sections joined with relatively weak joints. Extend it up about 50 feet and see if it can be kept standing vertical while only the bottom is held. A wall structure would also be unstable. If gravity truly isn't a factor, this should be easy to accomplish.
The single column spire feature doesn't match up with the perimeter corner. Also, those columns that form the spire are very large. They look small from a distance, but they are actually thick.
It does not line up with any of the three corners which you can see, but it matches perfectly with the fourth corner on the far side. What else could it be?
Gordon.
It does not line up with any of the three corners which you can see, but it matches perfectly with the fourth corner on the far side. What else could it be?
Gordon.
QUOTE (shagster+Mar 12 2006, 11:30 AM)
QUOTE (reasonwhy+Mar 12 2006, 07:15 PM)
I agree this might be possible If the core columns were disconected from the girders, reinforced concrete floors and foundation.
Gravity driven collapse doesn’t have a mechanism for this.
Controlled demolition does.
Gravity would certainly effect the lone spire feature and a wall-type structure. That single column spire feature was probably around 300 to 400 feet length and perhaps 2 feet wide. That's an aspect ratio near 200. The wall-like core structure was of comparable length.
Try building a model of something smaller, say 3 inch dia pvc pipe made of 2-foot sections joined with relatively weak joints. Extend it up about 50 feet and see if it can be kept standing vertical while only the bottom is held. A wall structure would also be unstable. If gravity truly isn't a factor, this should be easy to accomplish.
Here are 3 examples (Were do you get the idea the columns had relatively weak joints?):
QUOTE (Commen sense+Mar 12 2006, 07:01 PM)
Why don't you stop making my work to get rid of the fool Bush harder by pushing this swift boaters for 9/11 lies?