QUOTE (brian+Jan 31 2006, 11:23 AM)
QUOTE (Foxx+Jan 29 2006, 06:21 AM)
http://forum.physorg.com/index.php?showtop...indpost&p=59243
Oh really !
Got any pictures of this mythical south-side gash in WTC 7?
And did the Bankers Trust (130 Liberty Street) suddenly disintegrate in a perfect example of controlled Implosion Demolition?
The hole in Bankers Trust was virtually the same size as the alleged south side gash in WTC 7.
Check it out... count the number of stories the gash in Bankers Trust actually was...
VERY CLOSE to the Alleged damage to the center south face of WTC 7?
http://oceanmirage.homestead.com/AFC01untitled1.html
Here are some pictures of the inside view of the damage...
http://oceanmirage.homestead.com/AFC01_002.html


Compare the relative damage between the post & beam Bankers Trust construction... to the post & beam central core construction in WTC 1...
http://oceanmirage.homestead.com/AFC01_003.html
Yet, the twin towers AND WTC 7 disappeared in the previously un-heard-of phenomenon called 'Global Disproportionate Progressive Collapse'...
while the Banker's Trust still stands.
Nothing 'odd' here at all folks... move along now... nothing to see here... go home and watch Oprah.
Don't look too closely at the damage to Bankers Trust. This is not REGULAR peripheral damage from a falling building. Blast Damage seems apparent to me, in combination with high heat effects...
http://oceanmirage.homestead.com/AFC01_004.html
Check out the FEMA report on this peripheral damage. It is apparent that some of the debris was on a horizontal trajectory as it smashed through low level windows at Bankers Trust which was 600 feet from the closest point of the south tower.
How does 'falling debris' enter a building 600 feet away on a horizontal trajectory?
Yep... you got it... ONLY ONE PHYSICS explaination for that...
Explosive forces originating from low levels of WTC 2.
Thanks, Schneiby.
Seems the Foxx has greatly upset the henhouse.
Was it his abuse of Scheibsters property rights - oooohhh, or his persistent exposure of the ludicrous fairy tale?
Back to the physics it is then -
Hows about answering Foxx above? As frater plecticus has just shown, Arthur is not bashful regarding acceleration forces on spacecraft so perhaps he can tell us how such a large steel section accelerated to the Bankers Trust. In fact I have little doubt he can make a good stab at it but have no doubt he wont.
Lets keep the FOXX in the henhouse, no answers yet?
QUOTE
Something not seen in any of the internet photos of 7 I've seen is the very large gouge on the south side. I'm not talking about the 18 story gouge in the south west corner. There is a much bigger gouge in the center of the south face of the building. Something like this but worse...


Oh really !
Got any pictures of this mythical south-side gash in WTC 7?
And did the Bankers Trust (130 Liberty Street) suddenly disintegrate in a perfect example of controlled Implosion Demolition?
The hole in Bankers Trust was virtually the same size as the alleged south side gash in WTC 7.
Check it out... count the number of stories the gash in Bankers Trust actually was...
VERY CLOSE to the Alleged damage to the center south face of WTC 7?
http://oceanmirage.homestead.com/AFC01untitled1.html
Here are some pictures of the inside view of the damage...
http://oceanmirage.homestead.com/AFC01_002.html


Compare the relative damage between the post & beam Bankers Trust construction... to the post & beam central core construction in WTC 1...
http://oceanmirage.homestead.com/AFC01_003.html
Yet, the twin towers AND WTC 7 disappeared in the previously un-heard-of phenomenon called 'Global Disproportionate Progressive Collapse'...
while the Banker's Trust still stands.
Nothing 'odd' here at all folks... move along now... nothing to see here... go home and watch Oprah.
Don't look too closely at the damage to Bankers Trust. This is not REGULAR peripheral damage from a falling building. Blast Damage seems apparent to me, in combination with high heat effects...
http://oceanmirage.homestead.com/AFC01_004.html
Check out the FEMA report on this peripheral damage. It is apparent that some of the debris was on a horizontal trajectory as it smashed through low level windows at Bankers Trust which was 600 feet from the closest point of the south tower.
How does 'falling debris' enter a building 600 feet away on a horizontal trajectory?
Yep... you got it... ONLY ONE PHYSICS explaination for that...
Explosive forces originating from low levels of WTC 2.
Thanks, Schneiby.
Seems the Foxx has greatly upset the henhouse.
Was it his abuse of Scheibsters property rights - oooohhh, or his persistent exposure of the ludicrous fairy tale?
Back to the physics it is then -
Hows about answering Foxx above? As frater plecticus has just shown, Arthur is not bashful regarding acceleration forces on spacecraft so perhaps he can tell us how such a large steel section accelerated to the Bankers Trust. In fact I have little doubt he can make a good stab at it but have no doubt he wont.
Lets keep the FOXX in the henhouse, no answers yet?
QUOTE (Guest_Jeff+Jan 31 2006, 10:56 AM)
It's not an article, it's a press release. In this case it means it was written by/for the people mentioned in it.
It's not a report, it's an official statement of position. From people with interesting credentials, like Andreas Von Bulow who was Defense Minister of Germany.
There's very little chance you'll read about it in the times. Tell me about one sided opinions, lol. When has the times or any other mainstream propaganda tools honestly reported about the other side of the fairy tale they're selling to the lemmings?
(I said "honest", so chertoff's piece in popular mechanics is out of range)
Von Bulow is making big bucks by selling this to gullible Germans, mostly under thirty and mostly from the former German Democratic Republic.
http://www.broeckers.com/GuardianWeekly.htm
Arthur
It's not a report, it's an official statement of position. From people with interesting credentials, like Andreas Von Bulow who was Defense Minister of Germany.
There's very little chance you'll read about it in the times. Tell me about one sided opinions, lol. When has the times or any other mainstream propaganda tools honestly reported about the other side of the fairy tale they're selling to the lemmings?
(I said "honest", so chertoff's piece in popular mechanics is out of range)
Von Bulow is making big bucks by selling this to gullible Germans, mostly under thirty and mostly from the former German Democratic Republic.
http://www.broeckers.com/GuardianWeekly.htm
Arthur
QUOTE (Schneibster+Jan 30 2006, 11:27 PM)
QUOTE (JamesX+Jan 31 2006, 07:20 AM)
QUOTE (Schneibster+Jan 31 2006, 07:12 AM)
I've checked on case law- surprising how much you can find out searching on the 'Net- and it looks like you're gonna pay my credit cards off, Fauxie. Assuming you're good for it and we don't have to attach your income or something. We'll see what the lawyer says tomorrow morning; I'm pretty sure there's a criminal case to be made here, as well. Have a nice evening, sport.
Be sure to tell your internet lawyer all about the death threats you've been making... sport.
Heh!
How you interpret what I say, as opposed to how a reasonable person would interpret it, has no interest for me. If I were threatening someone's life or health, something I would not do, then I would be very clear about precisely what I had in mind. Looks like you've been reading too many funny posts and not paying enough attention to the DMCA. But then again, you're just a racist, redneck, militia hilljack, so I'm sure your opinion is going to carry great weight.
Would it have been removed ( along with my posts and many others) if it wasn’t a real threat? You must be in the shill dog house for having to sanitize a forum. Do they take it out of your pay?
Be sure to tell your internet lawyer all about the death threats you've been making... sport.
Heh!
How you interpret what I say, as opposed to how a reasonable person would interpret it, has no interest for me. If I were threatening someone's life or health, something I would not do, then I would be very clear about precisely what I had in mind. Looks like you've been reading too many funny posts and not paying enough attention to the DMCA. But then again, you're just a racist, redneck, militia hilljack, so I'm sure your opinion is going to carry great weight.
Would it have been removed ( along with my posts and many others) if it wasn’t a real threat? You must be in the shill dog house for having to sanitize a forum. Do they take it out of your pay?
300!
QUOTE (Guest_Jeff+Jan 31 2006, 02:56 PM)
QUOTE (Ron+Jan 31 2006, 02:15 PM)
re: Scholars for 9/11 Truth call for verification and publication by an international consortium.
The problem I have with this type of "news article" is that it's obviously written by someone sympathetic to the CT. Statements like "that nineteen Arab hijackers under control of one man in the wilds of Afghanistan brought this about" in the delivery of information looks more like propaganda than objective reporting. I would like to see the Times pick this up just so I could read a more investigative inquiry than another one-sided opinion (for either cause).
It's not an article, it's a press release. In this case it means it was written by/for the people mentioned in it.
It's not a report, it's an official statement of position. From people with interesting credentials, like Andreas Von Bulow who was Defense Minister of Germany.
There's very little chance you'll read about it in the times. Tell me about one sided opinions, lol. When has the times or any other mainstream propaganda tools honestly reported about the other side of the fairy tale they're selling to the lemmings?
(I said "honest", so chertoff's piece in popular mechanics is out of range)
"When the wise man points at the moon, the idiot looks at the finger" (Confucius)
In other words it's useless.
The problem I have with this type of "news article" is that it's obviously written by someone sympathetic to the CT. Statements like "that nineteen Arab hijackers under control of one man in the wilds of Afghanistan brought this about" in the delivery of information looks more like propaganda than objective reporting. I would like to see the Times pick this up just so I could read a more investigative inquiry than another one-sided opinion (for either cause).
It's not an article, it's a press release. In this case it means it was written by/for the people mentioned in it.
It's not a report, it's an official statement of position. From people with interesting credentials, like Andreas Von Bulow who was Defense Minister of Germany.
There's very little chance you'll read about it in the times. Tell me about one sided opinions, lol. When has the times or any other mainstream propaganda tools honestly reported about the other side of the fairy tale they're selling to the lemmings?
(I said "honest", so chertoff's piece in popular mechanics is out of range)
"When the wise man points at the moon, the idiot looks at the finger" (Confucius)
In other words it's useless.
First the PICTURE:

Then the CHARGE:

Then the CHARGE:
QUOTE (Foxx+)
Check out the FEMA report on this peripheral damage. It is apparent that some of the debris was on a horizontal trajectory as it smashed through low level windows at Bankers Trust which was 600 feet from the closest point of the south tower.
How does 'falling debris' enter a building 600 feet away on a horizontal trajectory?
Yep... you got it... ONLY ONE PHYSICS explaination for that...
Explosive forces originating from low levels of WTC 2.
FINALLY the REALITY
*Window breakage would appear to be attributable to ... Smaller debris blown from WTC 1 and WTC 2. In particular, several small chunks of lightweight concrete, which appeared to be from WTC 2 floor slabs, were thrown through the north windows of the building. These debris items ranged in size from small fragments that caused bullet-sized holes in the windows to large chunks with a maximum dimension of approximately 12 inches. Many of these chunks landed as far as 15 feet from the exterior building line and appeared to be traveling almost horizontally when they penetrated the building facade.
We KNOW the energy released during the fall is ENORMOUS, but according to the CT'rs it takes additional explosives to send small chunks of debris sideways?
What twisted logic is THAT?
Arthur
How does 'falling debris' enter a building 600 feet away on a horizontal trajectory?
Yep... you got it... ONLY ONE PHYSICS explaination for that...
Explosive forces originating from low levels of WTC 2.
FINALLY the REALITY
*Window breakage would appear to be attributable to ... Smaller debris blown from WTC 1 and WTC 2. In particular, several small chunks of lightweight concrete, which appeared to be from WTC 2 floor slabs, were thrown through the north windows of the building. These debris items ranged in size from small fragments that caused bullet-sized holes in the windows to large chunks with a maximum dimension of approximately 12 inches. Many of these chunks landed as far as 15 feet from the exterior building line and appeared to be traveling almost horizontally when they penetrated the building facade.
We KNOW the energy released during the fall is ENORMOUS, but according to the CT'rs it takes additional explosives to send small chunks of debris sideways?
What twisted logic is THAT?
Arthur
QUOTE (brian+Jan 31 2006, 02:59 PM)
QUOTE (Ron+Jan 31 2006, 02:15 PM)
re: Scholars for 9/11 Truth call for verification and publication by an international consortium.
The problem I have with this type of "news article" is that it's obviously written by someone sympathetic to the CT. Statements like "that nineteen Arab hijackers under control of one man in the wilds of Afghanistan brought this about" in the delivery of information looks more like propaganda than objective reporting. I would like to see the Times pick this up just so I could read a more investigative inquiry than another one-sided opinion (for either cause).
"that nineteen Arab hijackers under control of one man in the wilds of Afghanistan brought this about"
Is that not the official claim? Have they changed that now as well as the NORAD story etc?
What's not in the official story is the way it's portrayed here. It obviously makes it sound like Osama was not educated enough to pull this off. As I said, with a degree in civil engineering he is smart enough - not only to find the towers weakness and exploit it but design one as well!
Why do you need more than money, the people on the plane and Osama to pull this off? WHY?
The problem I have with this type of "news article" is that it's obviously written by someone sympathetic to the CT. Statements like "that nineteen Arab hijackers under control of one man in the wilds of Afghanistan brought this about" in the delivery of information looks more like propaganda than objective reporting. I would like to see the Times pick this up just so I could read a more investigative inquiry than another one-sided opinion (for either cause).
"that nineteen Arab hijackers under control of one man in the wilds of Afghanistan brought this about"
Is that not the official claim? Have they changed that now as well as the NORAD story etc?
What's not in the official story is the way it's portrayed here. It obviously makes it sound like Osama was not educated enough to pull this off. As I said, with a degree in civil engineering he is smart enough - not only to find the towers weakness and exploit it but design one as well!
Why do you need more than money, the people on the plane and Osama to pull this off? WHY?
QUOTE (Common Sense+Jan 31 2006, 11:39 AM)
QUOTE (brian+Jan 31 2006, 02:59 PM)
QUOTE (Ron+Jan 31 2006, 02:15 PM)
re: Scholars for 9/11 Truth call for verification and publication by an international consortium.
The problem I have with this type of "news article" is that it's obviously written by someone sympathetic to the CT. Statements like "that nineteen Arab hijackers under control of one man in the wilds of Afghanistan brought this about" in the delivery of information looks more like propaganda than objective reporting. I would like to see the Times pick this up just so I could read a more investigative inquiry than another one-sided opinion (for either cause).
"that nineteen Arab hijackers under control of one man in the wilds of Afghanistan brought this about"
Is that not the official claim? Have they changed that now as well as the NORAD story etc?
What's not in the official story is the way it's portrayed here. It obviously makes it sound like Osama was not educated enough to pull this off. As I said, with a degree in civil engineering he is smart enough - not only to find the towers weakness and exploit it but design one as well!
Why do you need more than money, the people on the plane and Osama to pull this off? WHY?
Don't forget M. Atta, an architect.
He was in control of the cells in the US.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_Atta
or
Khalid Shaikh Mohammed who had an engineering degree
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_Shaikh_Mohammed
This continued reference to control by a guy in a cave in Afghanistan is an attempt to minimize the planning that went on prior to 9/11.
The planning for 9/11 wasn't done while these guys were in hiding. They were operating OPENLY in Afghanistan at the time.
Arthur
Small chunks that pulverized a 47 story building.
Small chunks that pulverized a 47 story building.
Straw man, no one ever said "Small chunks that pulverized a 47 story building". or close to it.
The debris (Small or not) hit the 47 story building causing a fire on the lower floors which weakened the suports over a period of 5-6 hours. With no one fighting the fire the steel weakened and a major support collapsed as the video of the penthouse falling proves. After the penthouse fell the load transfered to other already weakened suports. A few seconds later the building collapsed basicly from having it's legs burned out from under it over time.
I bet if I burn your feet for a few hours, at some point you'll fall as if you were punched in the face but that doesn't mean you were punched in the face.
The problem I have with this type of "news article" is that it's obviously written by someone sympathetic to the CT. Statements like "that nineteen Arab hijackers under control of one man in the wilds of Afghanistan brought this about" in the delivery of information looks more like propaganda than objective reporting. I would like to see the Times pick this up just so I could read a more investigative inquiry than another one-sided opinion (for either cause).
"that nineteen Arab hijackers under control of one man in the wilds of Afghanistan brought this about"
Is that not the official claim? Have they changed that now as well as the NORAD story etc?
What's not in the official story is the way it's portrayed here. It obviously makes it sound like Osama was not educated enough to pull this off. As I said, with a degree in civil engineering he is smart enough - not only to find the towers weakness and exploit it but design one as well!
Why do you need more than money, the people on the plane and Osama to pull this off? WHY?
Don't forget M. Atta, an architect.
He was in control of the cells in the US.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_Atta
or
Khalid Shaikh Mohammed who had an engineering degree
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_Shaikh_Mohammed
This continued reference to control by a guy in a cave in Afghanistan is an attempt to minimize the planning that went on prior to 9/11.
The planning for 9/11 wasn't done while these guys were in hiding. They were operating OPENLY in Afghanistan at the time.
Arthur
QUOTE
We KNOW the energy released during the fall is ENORMOUS, but according to the CT'rs it takes additional explosives to send small chunks of debris sideways?
Small chunks that pulverized a 47 story building.
QUOTE (frater plecticus+Jan 31 2006, 04:20 PM)
QUOTE
We KNOW the energy released during the fall is ENORMOUS, but according to the CT'rs it takes additional explosives to send small chunks of debris sideways?
Small chunks that pulverized a 47 story building.
Straw man, no one ever said "Small chunks that pulverized a 47 story building". or close to it.
The debris (Small or not) hit the 47 story building causing a fire on the lower floors which weakened the suports over a period of 5-6 hours. With no one fighting the fire the steel weakened and a major support collapsed as the video of the penthouse falling proves. After the penthouse fell the load transfered to other already weakened suports. A few seconds later the building collapsed basicly from having it's legs burned out from under it over time.
I bet if I burn your feet for a few hours, at some point you'll fall as if you were punched in the face but that doesn't mean you were punched in the face.
QUOTE (Guest_rawfooddan+Jan 31 2006, 02:46 PM)
yesitdid,
if you will look at my spreadsheet a little closer you will see that i do model the collapse in 3 different ways. look at the bottom you'll see 3 different tabs- one for top-down, one for 93rd floor down and one for 75th floor down. i assume the pildrivers remain intact all the way down to speed up the collapse, and once they hit the ground all floors fall at the speed of gravity.
You are not taking photographic evidence into account. We see steel falling faster than not only the building collapse but the debris cloud which is also going faster than the building.
You will have to explain how the steel is falling much faster than the building if the building is falling at the speed of free fall.
if you will look at my spreadsheet a little closer you will see that i do model the collapse in 3 different ways. look at the bottom you'll see 3 different tabs- one for top-down, one for 93rd floor down and one for 75th floor down. i assume the pildrivers remain intact all the way down to speed up the collapse, and once they hit the ground all floors fall at the speed of gravity.
You are not taking photographic evidence into account. We see steel falling faster than not only the building collapse but the debris cloud which is also going faster than the building.
You will have to explain how the steel is falling much faster than the building if the building is falling at the speed of free fall.
QUOTE (Schneibster+Jan 31 2006, 07:12 AM)
I've checked on case law- surprising how much you can find out searching on the 'Net- and it looks like you're gonna pay my credit cards off, Fauxie. Assuming you're good for it and we don't have to attach your income or something. We'll see what the lawyer says tomorrow morning; I'm pretty sure there's a criminal case to be made here, as well. Have a nice evening, sport.
Ya know, I normally skim right by stuff you people post (Schneibster, Arthur, Coastal, etc) because it's just simpler to go directly to the posts where your crap is refuted (you're your own worst enemy...nothing but condescending bullshite that I don't have the stomach to read, so I mostly don't read it). But this stuff is taking the cake. You are one serious wack-job, Schneibster.
I can't wait till you bring this entire thread into the public forum via your impending court-room battle over your ugly mug. There'll be no question as to your loony status then, and we'll also get some free publicity on 9/11 'truth' and what the whistle-blowers deal with on a regular basis (I'm sure people are gonna love the amazing ''bellows' theory).
For a proven liar, you've sure got a big mouth. You need a right-good spanking from your mommy, and when she finds out you've been using her computer, you might just get that spanking.
Ya know, I normally skim right by stuff you people post (Schneibster, Arthur, Coastal, etc) because it's just simpler to go directly to the posts where your crap is refuted (you're your own worst enemy...nothing but condescending bullshite that I don't have the stomach to read, so I mostly don't read it). But this stuff is taking the cake. You are one serious wack-job, Schneibster.
I can't wait till you bring this entire thread into the public forum via your impending court-room battle over your ugly mug. There'll be no question as to your loony status then, and we'll also get some free publicity on 9/11 'truth' and what the whistle-blowers deal with on a regular basis (I'm sure people are gonna love the amazing ''bellows' theory).
For a proven liar, you've sure got a big mouth. You need a right-good spanking from your mommy, and when she finds out you've been using her computer, you might just get that spanking.
ditto
Is this science ?
QUOTE
I bet if I burn your feet for a few hours, at some point you'll fall as if you were punched in the face but that doesn't mean you were punched in the face.
Is this science ?
QUOTE (Mel+Jan 31 2006, 04:50 PM)
QUOTE (Schneibster+Jan 31 2006, 07:12 AM)
I've checked on case law- surprising how much you can find out searching on the 'Net- and it looks like you're gonna pay my credit cards off, Fauxie. Assuming you're good for it and we don't have to attach your income or something. We'll see what the lawyer says tomorrow morning; I'm pretty sure there's a criminal case to be made here, as well. Have a nice evening, sport.
Ya know, I normally skim right by stuff you people post (Schneibster, Arthur, Coastal, etc) because it's just simpler to go directly to the posts where your crap is refuted (you're your own worst enemy...nothing but condescending bullshite that I don't have the stomach to read, so I mostly don't read it). But this stuff is taking the cake. You are one serious wack-job, Schneibster.
I can't wait till you bring this entire thread into the public forum via your impending court-room battle over your ugly mug. There'll be no question as to your loony status then, and we'll also get some free publicity on 9/11 'truth' and what the whistle-blowers deal with on a regular basis (I'm sure people are gonna love the amazing ''bellows' theory).
For a proven liar, you've sure got a big mouth. You need a right-good spanking from your mommy, and when she finds out you've been using her computer, you might just get that spanking.
The only proof is that you do to Schneibster what you do in your CT sites. You LIE about the facts hoping no one will dig deeper. All anyone has to do is follow the links and read Schneibster's reply to see what a crack-pot you really are. You're about as useful to this debate as a tape worm sticking out of a dogs A$$ is to a dog.
Pure science. the extent of proof continues....
Small chunks that pulverized a 47 story building.
Take things out of CONTEXT much?
The ORIGINAL question:
Small chunks that pulverized a 47 story building.
Take things out of CONTEXT much?
The ORIGINAL question:
How does 'falling debris' enter a building 600 feet away on a horizontal trajectory?
For which EXPLOSIVES were supposedly the ONLY answer (per Foxx et al)
With the QUESTION always posted after the picture with the TREE COLUMN having smashed a Large gash in the Banker's trust building AS IT FELL.
Means we HAVE to go back to the ORIGINAL report that CLEARLY states the material on a HORIZONTAL TRAJECTORY was 1 ft or smaller in diameter.
NOT the TREES.
Now what happened to the Banker's Trust building Can't be extrapolated to the WTC 7 Building, as the debris field was NOT symetrical.
Arthur
Ya know, I normally skim right by stuff you people post (Schneibster, Arthur, Coastal, etc) because it's just simpler to go directly to the posts where your crap is refuted (you're your own worst enemy...nothing but condescending bullshite that I don't have the stomach to read, so I mostly don't read it). But this stuff is taking the cake. You are one serious wack-job, Schneibster.
I can't wait till you bring this entire thread into the public forum via your impending court-room battle over your ugly mug. There'll be no question as to your loony status then, and we'll also get some free publicity on 9/11 'truth' and what the whistle-blowers deal with on a regular basis (I'm sure people are gonna love the amazing ''bellows' theory).
For a proven liar, you've sure got a big mouth. You need a right-good spanking from your mommy, and when she finds out you've been using her computer, you might just get that spanking.
The only proof is that you do to Schneibster what you do in your CT sites. You LIE about the facts hoping no one will dig deeper. All anyone has to do is follow the links and read Schneibster's reply to see what a crack-pot you really are. You're about as useful to this debate as a tape worm sticking out of a dogs A$$ is to a dog.
QUOTE (frater plecticus+Jan 31 2006, 04:53 PM)
ditto
Is this science ?
QUOTE
I bet if I burn your feet for a few hours, at some point you'll fall as if you were punched in the face but that doesn't mean you were punched in the face.
Is this science ?
QUOTE
It's called an "Experiment". Would you like to try it?
Pure science. the extent of proof continues....
QUOTE (frater plecticus+Jan 31 2006, 12:20 PM)
QUOTE
We KNOW the energy released during the fall is ENORMOUS, but according to the CT'rs it takes additional explosives to send small chunks of debris sideways?
Small chunks that pulverized a 47 story building.
Take things out of CONTEXT much?
The ORIGINAL question:
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| We KNOW the energy released during the fall is ENORMOUS, but according to the CT'rs it takes additional explosives to send small chunks of debris sideways? |
Small chunks that pulverized a 47 story building.
Take things out of CONTEXT much?
The ORIGINAL question:
How does 'falling debris' enter a building 600 feet away on a horizontal trajectory?
For which EXPLOSIVES were supposedly the ONLY answer (per Foxx et al)
With the QUESTION always posted after the picture with the TREE COLUMN having smashed a Large gash in the Banker's trust building AS IT FELL.
Means we HAVE to go back to the ORIGINAL report that CLEARLY states the material on a HORIZONTAL TRAJECTORY was 1 ft or smaller in diameter.
NOT the TREES.
Now what happened to the Banker's Trust building Can't be extrapolated to the WTC 7 Building, as the debris field was NOT symetrical.
Arthur
QUOTE (adoucette+Jan 31 2006, 03:30 PM)
First the PICTURE:

Then the CHARGE:

Then the CHARGE:
QUOTE (Foxx+)
Check out the FEMA report on this peripheral damage. It is apparent that some of the debris was on a horizontal trajectory as it smashed through low level windows at Bankers Trust which was 600 feet from the closest point of the south tower.
How does 'falling debris' enter a building 600 feet away on a horizontal trajectory?
Yep... you got it... ONLY ONE PHYSICS explaination for that...
Explosive forces originating from low levels of WTC 2.
FINALLY the REALITY
*Window breakage would appear to be attributable to ... Smaller debris blown from WTC 1 and WTC 2. In particular, several small chunks of lightweight concrete, which appeared to be from WTC 2 floor slabs, were thrown through the north windows of the building. These debris items ranged in size from small fragments that caused bullet-sized holes in the windows to large chunks with a maximum dimension of approximately 12 inches. Many of these chunks landed as far as 15 feet from the exterior building line and appeared to be traveling almost horizontally when they penetrated the building facade.
We KNOW the energy released during the fall is ENORMOUS, but according to the CT'rs it takes additional explosives to send small chunks of debris sideways?
What twisted logic is THAT?
Arthur
What realms are we in now? La La Land?
Lets skip the "Smaller debris blown from WTC 1 and WTC 2." and go straight to the elephant in the middle of the picture, the elephantine segment of the exterior columns.
EVEN the legenderian Arthur cannot expect anyone to believe that amount of damage could be the result of "small chunks of debris can he? That he expects anyone other than his cohorts to ignore the, rather sticking out a mile, exterior columns is quite hilarious.
Or, in desperation does he hope no one will notice he is addressing the broken windows and ignoring said elephant.
"The structural steel used in the exterior 14-inch by 14-inch columns that were spaced at 3 feet 4 inches on center around the entire periphery of each of the WTC towers .... Column plate thickness varied from 1/4 inch to 5/8 inch in the impact zone of WTC 1 for floors 89-101, and from 1/4 inch to 13/16 inch in the impact zone of WTC 2 for floors 77-87."
http://911research.wtc7.net/mirrors/guardi..._apndxB.htm#B.1
Small chunks that pulverized a 47 story building.
Take things out of CONTEXT much?
The ORIGINAL question:
Small chunks that pulverized a 47 story building.
Take things out of CONTEXT much?
The ORIGINAL question:
How does 'falling debris' enter a building 600 feet away on a horizontal trajectory?
For which EXPLOSIVES were supposedly the ONLY answer (per Foxx et al)
With the QUESTION always posted after the picture with the TREE COLUMN having smashed a Large gash in the Banker's trust building AS IT FELL.
Means we HAVE to go back to the ORIGINAL report that CLEARLY states the material on a HORIZONTAL TRAJECTORY was 1 ft or smaller in diameter.
NOT the TREES.
Now what happened to the Banker's Trust building Can't be extrapolated to the WTC 7 Building, as the debris field was NOT symetrical.
Arthur
Posted too late I see.
Then prey tell how the exterior columns got there, the question you have been asked and have so far avoided.
true.
How does 'falling debris' enter a building 600 feet away on a horizontal trajectory?
Yep... you got it... ONLY ONE PHYSICS explaination for that...
Explosive forces originating from low levels of WTC 2.
FINALLY the REALITY
*Window breakage would appear to be attributable to ... Smaller debris blown from WTC 1 and WTC 2. In particular, several small chunks of lightweight concrete, which appeared to be from WTC 2 floor slabs, were thrown through the north windows of the building. These debris items ranged in size from small fragments that caused bullet-sized holes in the windows to large chunks with a maximum dimension of approximately 12 inches. Many of these chunks landed as far as 15 feet from the exterior building line and appeared to be traveling almost horizontally when they penetrated the building facade.
We KNOW the energy released during the fall is ENORMOUS, but according to the CT'rs it takes additional explosives to send small chunks of debris sideways?
What twisted logic is THAT?
Arthur
What realms are we in now? La La Land?
Lets skip the "Smaller debris blown from WTC 1 and WTC 2." and go straight to the elephant in the middle of the picture, the elephantine segment of the exterior columns.
EVEN the legenderian Arthur cannot expect anyone to believe that amount of damage could be the result of "small chunks of debris can he? That he expects anyone other than his cohorts to ignore the, rather sticking out a mile, exterior columns is quite hilarious.
Or, in desperation does he hope no one will notice he is addressing the broken windows and ignoring said elephant.
"The structural steel used in the exterior 14-inch by 14-inch columns that were spaced at 3 feet 4 inches on center around the entire periphery of each of the WTC towers .... Column plate thickness varied from 1/4 inch to 5/8 inch in the impact zone of WTC 1 for floors 89-101, and from 1/4 inch to 13/16 inch in the impact zone of WTC 2 for floors 77-87."
http://911research.wtc7.net/mirrors/guardi..._apndxB.htm#B.1
QUOTE (Common Sense+Jan 31 2006, 03:26 PM)
In other words it's useless.
You wish.
Every day, more and more people are standing for the Truth. The days of your dirty plans are counted.
You wish.
Every day, more and more people are standing for the Truth. The days of your dirty plans are counted.
QUOTE (adoucette+Jan 31 2006, 05:09 PM)
QUOTE (frater plecticus+Jan 31 2006, 12:20 PM)
QUOTE
We KNOW the energy released during the fall is ENORMOUS, but according to the CT'rs it takes additional explosives to send small chunks of debris sideways?
Small chunks that pulverized a 47 story building.
Take things out of CONTEXT much?
The ORIGINAL question:
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| We KNOW the energy released during the fall is ENORMOUS, but according to the CT'rs it takes additional explosives to send small chunks of debris sideways? |
Small chunks that pulverized a 47 story building.
Take things out of CONTEXT much?
The ORIGINAL question:
How does 'falling debris' enter a building 600 feet away on a horizontal trajectory?
For which EXPLOSIVES were supposedly the ONLY answer (per Foxx et al)
With the QUESTION always posted after the picture with the TREE COLUMN having smashed a Large gash in the Banker's trust building AS IT FELL.
Means we HAVE to go back to the ORIGINAL report that CLEARLY states the material on a HORIZONTAL TRAJECTORY was 1 ft or smaller in diameter.
NOT the TREES.
Now what happened to the Banker's Trust building Can't be extrapolated to the WTC 7 Building, as the debris field was NOT symetrical.
Arthur
Posted too late I see.
Then prey tell how the exterior columns got there, the question you have been asked and have so far avoided.
QUOTE
Every day, more and more people are standing for the Truth. The days of your dirty plans are counted.
true.
QUOTE (Common Sense+Jan 31 2006, 04:56 PM)
QUOTE (Mel+Jan 31 2006, 04:50 PM)
QUOTE (Schneibster+Jan 31 2006, 07:12 AM)
I've checked on case law- surprising how much you can find out searching on the 'Net- and it looks like you're gonna pay my credit cards off, Fauxie. Assuming you're good for it and we don't have to attach your income or something. We'll see what the lawyer says tomorrow morning; I'm pretty sure there's a criminal case to be made here, as well. Have a nice evening, sport.
Ya know, I normally skim right by stuff you people post (Schneibster, Arthur, Coastal, etc) because it's just simpler to go directly to the posts where your crap is refuted (you're your own worst enemy...nothing but condescending bullshite that I don't have the stomach to read, so I mostly don't read it). But this stuff is taking the cake. You are one serious wack-job, Schneibster.
I can't wait till you bring this entire thread into the public forum via your impending court-room battle over your ugly mug. There'll be no question as to your loony status then, and we'll also get some free publicity on 9/11 'truth' and what the whistle-blowers deal with on a regular basis (I'm sure people are gonna love the amazing ''bellows' theory).
For a proven liar, you've sure got a big mouth. You need a right-good spanking from your mommy, and when she finds out you've been using her computer, you might just get that spanking.
The only proof is that you do to Schneibster what you do in your CT sites. You LIE about the facts hoping no one will dig deeper. All anyone has to do is follow the links and read Schneibster's reply to see what a crack-pot you really are. You're about as useful to this debate as a tape worm sticking out of a dogs A$$ is to a dog.
We'll let the jury in your wacko-world court case decide.
Ya know, I normally skim right by stuff you people post (Schneibster, Arthur, Coastal, etc) because it's just simpler to go directly to the posts where your crap is refuted (you're your own worst enemy...nothing but condescending bullshite that I don't have the stomach to read, so I mostly don't read it). But this stuff is taking the cake. You are one serious wack-job, Schneibster.
I can't wait till you bring this entire thread into the public forum via your impending court-room battle over your ugly mug. There'll be no question as to your loony status then, and we'll also get some free publicity on 9/11 'truth' and what the whistle-blowers deal with on a regular basis (I'm sure people are gonna love the amazing ''bellows' theory).
For a proven liar, you've sure got a big mouth. You need a right-good spanking from your mommy, and when she finds out you've been using her computer, you might just get that spanking.
The only proof is that you do to Schneibster what you do in your CT sites. You LIE about the facts hoping no one will dig deeper. All anyone has to do is follow the links and read Schneibster's reply to see what a crack-pot you really are. You're about as useful to this debate as a tape worm sticking out of a dogs A$$ is to a dog.
We'll let the jury in your wacko-world court case decide.
Don't worry, Mell. their day of infamy will be coming pretty soon.
Thanks all.
I've been sitting here reading the pages since my last visit and rolling on the floor with laughter. The more 'threatening' Schneiby becomes the more entertaining... it's like watching a Yosemite Sam cartoon.
However, it is quite apparent that gov't supporters have been thrown so far into confusion over my last posts (related to the issues of this thread) that they have fallen into thrashing & slashing mode just as I had predicted many pages ago.
This was way back on page 287...
http://forum.physorg.com/index.php?showtop...indpost&p=59252
Now anyone who has been paying attention can readily see why ol' Schneiby has fallen off the 'deep end' with his 'shoot-em-up' anger.
He first tried to compare the Bankers Trust damage to the WTC 7 alleged mythical south face damage which mysteriously ... no one has pictures of.
I'm not sure where he thought he was going to go with that, but it royally backfired for numerous reasons.
The gash in the face of Bankers Trust is very similar to the 'alleged' gash in the south face of WTC 7.
The mythical WTC 7 gash (if you twist the words of ONE Fire-fighter - Boyle) was alleged to have been twenty stories high... the gash in BT was about 16 stories high. We have absolutely NO evidence that any perimeter columns smashed through the south face of WTC 7, yet we have irrefutable proof that numerous joined perimeter columns from WTC 2 flew a minimum of 600 feet and smashed through the face of BT...

Each of these column trees weighed about 23 tons. Clearly visible are three of these columnar trees. That gives us a MINIMUM weight of some ~ 70 Tons. Attached to those columns must be others buried within BT from which the 3 columnar trees were hanging from. Obviously the three columnar trees didn't just magnetize themselves to the outside face of BT, therefore they must be attached to others. So now we have, let's say a MINIMUM of 100 Tons of solid steel structures thrown over a minimum of 600 feet from their original location.
While we don't know the original floors of WTC 2 these columns came from, we do know that they did NOT end up buried in the face of BT riding atop a landslide of debris (as gravity should dictate from a normal bilding 'collapse'). NO...They FLEW there, and from a great height - as the entrance trajectory seems to suggest. They were NOT part of a massive landslide of cascading debris, otherwise the entire face of BT would have been covered. These particular columns were forcefully blown far further than the normal heavy perimeter columns. These are truly anomalous columns. These columns were in true free-fall as they impaled Bankers Trust. I'm afraid that 'gravity-driven' collapse can not account for the flight of these Amazing Flying Columns.
Not that it's extremely relevant, but perhaps some mathematical types would like to calculate the force that 100 tons of steel falling through thin air would impart at impact with Bankers Trust.
I'm sure the forces would be huge (much higher than the same section of 'allegedly free-falling' steel would exert after 'falling' 12 feet to impact the lower structure of the WTC).
Yet even so, this massive force was arrested and did not collapse that portion of Bankers Trust right down to the ground. Noting here that the structure impacted at Bankers Trust was much lighter constructed than the corresponding structure in the towers.
This can be seen in the original FEMA library photo. Another interesting thing about the FEMA photo is the caption (added by FEMA)...

This was way back on page 287...
http://forum.physorg.com/index.php?showtop...indpost&p=59252
Now anyone who has been paying attention can readily see why ol' Schneiby has fallen off the 'deep end' with his 'shoot-em-up' anger.
He first tried to compare the Bankers Trust damage to the WTC 7 alleged mythical south face damage which mysteriously ... no one has pictures of.
I'm not sure where he thought he was going to go with that, but it royally backfired for numerous reasons.
The gash in the face of Bankers Trust is very similar to the 'alleged' gash in the south face of WTC 7.
The mythical WTC 7 gash (if you twist the words of ONE Fire-fighter - Boyle) was alleged to have been twenty stories high... the gash in BT was about 16 stories high. We have absolutely NO evidence that any perimeter columns smashed through the south face of WTC 7, yet we have irrefutable proof that numerous joined perimeter columns from WTC 2 flew a minimum of 600 feet and smashed through the face of BT...

Each of these column trees weighed about 23 tons. Clearly visible are three of these columnar trees. That gives us a MINIMUM weight of some ~ 70 Tons. Attached to those columns must be others buried within BT from which the 3 columnar trees were hanging from. Obviously the three columnar trees didn't just magnetize themselves to the outside face of BT, therefore they must be attached to others. So now we have, let's say a MINIMUM of 100 Tons of solid steel structures thrown over a minimum of 600 feet from their original location.
While we don't know the original floors of WTC 2 these columns came from, we do know that they did NOT end up buried in the face of BT riding atop a landslide of debris (as gravity should dictate from a normal bilding 'collapse'). NO...They FLEW there, and from a great height - as the entrance trajectory seems to suggest. They were NOT part of a massive landslide of cascading debris, otherwise the entire face of BT would have been covered. These particular columns were forcefully blown far further than the normal heavy perimeter columns. These are truly anomalous columns. These columns were in true free-fall as they impaled Bankers Trust. I'm afraid that 'gravity-driven' collapse can not account for the flight of these Amazing Flying Columns.
Not that it's extremely relevant, but perhaps some mathematical types would like to calculate the force that 100 tons of steel falling through thin air would impart at impact with Bankers Trust.
I'm sure the forces would be huge (much higher than the same section of 'allegedly free-falling' steel would exert after 'falling' 12 feet to impact the lower structure of the WTC).
Yet even so, this massive force was arrested and did not collapse that portion of Bankers Trust right down to the ground. Noting here that the structure impacted at Bankers Trust was much lighter constructed than the corresponding structure in the towers.
This can be seen in the original FEMA library photo. Another interesting thing about the FEMA photo is the caption (added by FEMA)...

New York, NY, September 20, 2001 -- This building was damaged by the explosions caused by terrorist attacks near the World Trade Center site. Photo by Mike Rieger / FEMA News Photo
(emphasis added)
Heh, the 'terrorists caused EXPLOSIONS at WTC' ???
I thought they just flew planes into the towers.
Little bit of a freudian slip on the part of FEMA, there. Rumsfeld must have written that caption
Just a few things to think about... I'll get back to this later.
Cheers
Foxx
edit to add - I see the legendarian has added more since I began writing the above, which I'm not addressing in this post (as I also note Brian is picking apart arthurs obfuscations quite well)
I've been sitting here reading the pages since my last visit and rolling on the floor with laughter. The more 'threatening' Schneiby becomes the more entertaining... it's like watching a Yosemite Sam cartoon.
However, it is quite apparent that gov't supporters have been thrown so far into confusion over my last posts (related to the issues of this thread) that they have fallen into thrashing & slashing mode just as I had predicted many pages ago.
QUOTE
by Foxx
http://911research.wtc7.net/mirrors/guardi...wtc/WTC_ch6.htm
The ol' "Guardian" strikes again
Hmmm... 'Home Office' seems to have been caught off-guard with that last post and has gone briefly silent, while they regroup...
Never fear, they will be back thrashing & slashing with their sophistry, rhetorics & obfuscations very soon...
http://911research.wtc7.net/mirrors/guardi...wtc/WTC_ch6.htm
The ol' "Guardian" strikes again
Hmmm... 'Home Office' seems to have been caught off-guard with that last post and has gone briefly silent, while they regroup...
Never fear, they will be back thrashing & slashing with their sophistry, rhetorics & obfuscations very soon...
This was way back on page 287...
http://forum.physorg.com/index.php?showtop...indpost&p=59252
Now anyone who has been paying attention can readily see why ol' Schneiby has fallen off the 'deep end' with his 'shoot-em-up' anger.
He first tried to compare the Bankers Trust damage to the WTC 7 alleged mythical south face damage which mysteriously ... no one has pictures of.
I'm not sure where he thought he was going to go with that, but it royally backfired for numerous reasons.
The gash in the face of Bankers Trust is very similar to the 'alleged' gash in the south face of WTC 7.
The mythical WTC 7 gash (if you twist the words of ONE Fire-fighter - Boyle) was alleged to have been twenty stories high... the gash in BT was about 16 stories high. We have absolutely NO evidence that any perimeter columns smashed through the south face of WTC 7, yet we have irrefutable proof that numerous joined perimeter columns from WTC 2 flew a minimum of 600 feet and smashed through the face of BT...

Each of these column trees weighed about 23 tons. Clearly visible are three of these columnar trees. That gives us a MINIMUM weight of some ~ 70 Tons. Attached to those columns must be others buried within BT from which the 3 columnar trees were hanging from. Obviously the three columnar trees didn't just magnetize themselves to the outside face of BT, therefore they must be attached to others. So now we have, let's say a MINIMUM of 100 Tons of solid steel structures thrown over a minimum of 600 feet from their original location.
While we don't know the original floors of WTC 2 these columns came from, we do know that they did NOT end up buried in the face of BT riding atop a landslide of debris (as gravity should dictate from a normal bilding 'collapse'). NO...They FLEW there, and from a great height - as the entrance trajectory seems to suggest. They were NOT part of a massive landslide of cascading debris, otherwise the entire face of BT would have been covered. These particular columns were forcefully blown far further than the normal heavy perimeter columns. These are truly anomalous columns. These columns were in true free-fall as they impaled Bankers Trust. I'm afraid that 'gravity-driven' collapse can not account for the flight of these Amazing Flying Columns.
Not that it's extremely relevant, but perhaps some mathematical types would like to calculate the force that 100 tons of steel falling through thin air would impart at impact with Bankers Trust.
I'm sure the forces would be huge (much higher than the same section of 'allegedly free-falling' steel would exert after 'falling' 12 feet to impact the lower structure of the WTC).
Yet even so, this massive force was arrested and did not collapse that portion of Bankers Trust right down to the ground. Noting here that the structure impacted at Bankers Trust was much lighter constructed than the corresponding structure in the towers.
This can be seen in the original FEMA library photo. Another interesting thing about the FEMA photo is the caption (added by FEMA)...

QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| by Foxx http://911research.wtc7.net/mirrors/guardi...wtc/WTC_ch6.htm The ol' "Guardian" strikes again Hmmm... 'Home Office' seems to have been caught off-guard with that last post and has gone briefly silent, while they regroup... Never fear, they will be back thrashing & slashing with their sophistry, rhetorics & obfuscations very soon... |
This was way back on page 287...
http://forum.physorg.com/index.php?showtop...indpost&p=59252
Now anyone who has been paying attention can readily see why ol' Schneiby has fallen off the 'deep end' with his 'shoot-em-up' anger.
He first tried to compare the Bankers Trust damage to the WTC 7 alleged mythical south face damage which mysteriously ... no one has pictures of.
I'm not sure where he thought he was going to go with that, but it royally backfired for numerous reasons.
The gash in the face of Bankers Trust is very similar to the 'alleged' gash in the south face of WTC 7.
The mythical WTC 7 gash (if you twist the words of ONE Fire-fighter - Boyle) was alleged to have been twenty stories high... the gash in BT was about 16 stories high. We have absolutely NO evidence that any perimeter columns smashed through the south face of WTC 7, yet we have irrefutable proof that numerous joined perimeter columns from WTC 2 flew a minimum of 600 feet and smashed through the face of BT...

Each of these column trees weighed about 23 tons. Clearly visible are three of these columnar trees. That gives us a MINIMUM weight of some ~ 70 Tons. Attached to those columns must be others buried within BT from which the 3 columnar trees were hanging from. Obviously the three columnar trees didn't just magnetize themselves to the outside face of BT, therefore they must be attached to others. So now we have, let's say a MINIMUM of 100 Tons of solid steel structures thrown over a minimum of 600 feet from their original location.
While we don't know the original floors of WTC 2 these columns came from, we do know that they did NOT end up buried in the face of BT riding atop a landslide of debris (as gravity should dictate from a normal bilding 'collapse'). NO...They FLEW there, and from a great height - as the entrance trajectory seems to suggest. They were NOT part of a massive landslide of cascading debris, otherwise the entire face of BT would have been covered. These particular columns were forcefully blown far further than the normal heavy perimeter columns. These are truly anomalous columns. These columns were in true free-fall as they impaled Bankers Trust. I'm afraid that 'gravity-driven' collapse can not account for the flight of these Amazing Flying Columns.
Not that it's extremely relevant, but perhaps some mathematical types would like to calculate the force that 100 tons of steel falling through thin air would impart at impact with Bankers Trust.
I'm sure the forces would be huge (much higher than the same section of 'allegedly free-falling' steel would exert after 'falling' 12 feet to impact the lower structure of the WTC).
Yet even so, this massive force was arrested and did not collapse that portion of Bankers Trust right down to the ground. Noting here that the structure impacted at Bankers Trust was much lighter constructed than the corresponding structure in the towers.
This can be seen in the original FEMA library photo. Another interesting thing about the FEMA photo is the caption (added by FEMA)...

New York, NY, September 20, 2001 -- This building was damaged by the explosions caused by terrorist attacks near the World Trade Center site. Photo by Mike Rieger / FEMA News Photo
(emphasis added)
Heh, the 'terrorists caused EXPLOSIONS at WTC' ???
I thought they just flew planes into the towers.
Little bit of a freudian slip on the part of FEMA, there. Rumsfeld must have written that caption
Just a few things to think about... I'll get back to this later.
Cheers
Foxx
edit to add - I see the legendarian has added more since I began writing the above, which I'm not addressing in this post (as I also note Brian is picking apart arthurs obfuscations quite well)
Oh...
while I think it is quite obvious to all ...(except arthur who is trying to set up another straw-man arguement)... let me make it perfectly clear that no where have I implied the columnar trees in Bankers Trust flew horizontally 600 feet from WTC2.
How preposterous can this Legend writer get?
Obviously the horizontal trajectory of 'concrete boulders' up to 1 foot in diameter is meant in this other portion of Bankers Trust examinations.
That is a separate but still related impact damage issue.
Arthur, you should tell your writers at Home-Office to come up with better straw-man attacks
while I think it is quite obvious to all ...(except arthur who is trying to set up another straw-man arguement)... let me make it perfectly clear that no where have I implied the columnar trees in Bankers Trust flew horizontally 600 feet from WTC2.
How preposterous can this Legend writer get?
Obviously the horizontal trajectory of 'concrete boulders' up to 1 foot in diameter is meant in this other portion of Bankers Trust examinations.
That is a separate but still related impact damage issue.
Arthur, you should tell your writers at Home-Office to come up with better straw-man attacks
Is it really 600 feet from the WTC 2 to the Banker's trust building?
http://thewebfairy.com/nerdcities/WTC/fig-1-1.jpg

Use as a scale, the WTC tower, since its 200 ft on a side.
????
Arthur
http://thewebfairy.com/nerdcities/WTC/fig-1-1.jpg

Use as a scale, the WTC tower, since its 200 ft on a side.
????
Arthur
Further to the Bankers Trust photo... You might want to save this post...This photo originally comes from the FEMA Online Library They have a LOT of great pictures of 9/11 events (GZ & Pentagon)...
Accessing the FEMA online library...
http://www.photolibrary.fema.gov/photolibrary/index.jsp
Click Search Photographs and you get to this page...
http://www.photolibrary.fema.gov/photolibr...tion=Clear+Form
Plug in the dates you want to search...This will bring up a number of thumbnails.
Search through until you find one you are looking for...
Thats where I found...
'Amazing Flying Columns' at Bankers Trust...id # 3988
(If you know the exact number you can just plug that into the search form, and it will take you direct to that page)...for example...
http://www.photolibrary.fema.gov/photolibr...ails.do?id=3988
Note: if you click > Download Original photo and DON'T have Cable or Broadband Internet connections, you may be waiting for days for the picture to download through phone connections... These pictures are quite large.
Here's the Original FEMA Bankers Trust photo...
http://www.photolibrary.fema.gov/photodata/original/3988.jpg
Cheers & happy hunting.
Foxx
Accessing the FEMA online library...
http://www.photolibrary.fema.gov/photolibrary/index.jsp
Click Search Photographs and you get to this page...
http://www.photolibrary.fema.gov/photolibr...tion=Clear+Form
Plug in the dates you want to search...This will bring up a number of thumbnails.
Search through until you find one you are looking for...
Thats where I found...
'Amazing Flying Columns' at Bankers Trust...id # 3988
(If you know the exact number you can just plug that into the search form, and it will take you direct to that page)...for example...
http://www.photolibrary.fema.gov/photolibr...ails.do?id=3988
Note: if you click > Download Original photo and DON'T have Cable or Broadband Internet connections, you may be waiting for days for the picture to download through phone connections... These pictures are quite large.
Here's the Original FEMA Bankers Trust photo...
http://www.photolibrary.fema.gov/photodata/original/3988.jpg
Cheers & happy hunting.
Foxx
QUOTE (Foxx+Jan 31 2006, 03:07 PM)
Oh...
while I think it is quite obvious to all ...(except arthur who is trying to set up another straw-man arguement)... let me make it perfectly clear that no where have I implied the columnar trees in Bankers Trust flew horizontally 600 feet from WTC2.
How preposterous can this Legend writer get?
Obviously the horizontal trajectory of 'concrete boulders' up to 1 foot in diameter is meant in this other portion of Bankers Trust examinations.
That is a separate but still related impact damage issue.
Arthur, you should tell your writers at Home-Office to come up with better straw-man attacks
Foxx, you masterBSer
they let them get away.....
they let them get away.....
As Sen. Kyl has said: 9/11 could have been prevented "if State Department
personnel had merely followed the law and not granted non- immigrant visas to
15 of the 19 hijackers in Saudi Arabia."
If other US officials had not encouraged the illegal immigration of over 10
million aliens to the US and permitted these illegal aliens to reside here
there would not have been a massive population living outside the law which
gave the terrorists the ability to hide in plain site while they planned,
rehearsed, financed and carried out their mass murder. This nationwide
acceptance of massive lawlessness permitted the terrorists to freely
function in our society.
Illegal entry to the US was, and still is, an easy enterprise. All of the
9/11 murderers had visas issued to them by officials of the State
Department. Most, if not all, those visas were granted in clear violation of
the letter and spirit of the Department's own regulations and federal law.
However, the State Department has provided visas to terrorists for many
years prior to 9/11 and thus had fair warning that its procedures were
deficient.
For example, the Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) examined the
immigration histories of terrorists involved in seven conspiracies by
Islamic extremists to murder Americans. CIS included in its study only
those who had committed crimes inside the US, beginning with the Jan 25,
1993 murder of two CIA employees outside Langley headquarters, followed by
the 1st WTC attack, the plots on NYC landmarks and on the NYC subway system,
the embassy bombings, the Millennium Plot on LAX and lastly, the horrific
-3-
tragedy of September 11th, 2001.
Because CIS limited its study only to seven plots either uncovered,
attempted or carried out, and therefore did not attempt to uncover
"sleepers", the total number of terrorists studied was merely forty-eight.
Thirty-six of the forty -eight entered the US with visas issued by the State
Department, and of these several entered the US multiple times.
Given the knowledge that young Arab males to whom it had given visas had
been convicted of terrorist acts committed at least as early as the 1993 WTC
attack, the State Department had more than enough basis to recognize the
weaknesses in its visa granting procedures. However, instead of tightening
procedures State continued its reckless course of action. Mary Ryan, the
Department's chief of Consular Affairs from 1993 to 2002, blindly continued
the Visa Express program for Saudi Arabia which allowed anyone, including
non-Saudis, to apply for visas at privately operated travel agencies. And
during her tenure, Ms. Ryan was responsible for a reduction of the
percentage of applicants interviewed by cons ular officials from "most" to
"about one- fifth."
Clearly, Ms Ryan was reflecting an attitude that pervaded State Department
officials at the highest levels: On June 10, 2002 Deputy Secretary of State
Richard Armitage wrote that believing that "an applicant may pose a threat
to national security is insufficient [grounds] for a consular officer to
deny a visa." But the trail of guilt does not stop at Mr. Armitage, for it
was Sen. Ted Kennedy who was responsible fo r adding language to the 1996
immigration reform act which stipulated that "mere membership" in a
terrorist organization is insufficient basis for denying a visa to an applicant.
Whatever the roles of Messrs. Armitage and Kennedy in allowing terrorists
entry to the US, Ms. Ryan was clearly committed to Visa Express and allowing
virtually anyone to enter the US. After 9/11, Diane Andruch (Ryan's deputy)
reported that the program had been discontinued, but investigation proved
the expedited processing still continued. And incomprehensibly, despite
public anger over her activities, the State Department awarded Mary Ryan a
$15,000 bonus for her "outstanding performa nce" for the period April 16,
2001 to April 15, 2002. It was as if the State Department was affirming its
approval for incompetence.
One of the most damning examples of failures within the government can be
attributed to Maura Harty. It was to her that the 9/11 terrorists' visa
applications came for review.
According to analysis done by Joel Mowbray, nearly all the terrorists' visa
applications were obviously defective on the ir face. For example, that of
-4-
Abdulaziz Alomari (one of the hijackers of the plane which hit my son's
building) did not fill in the space requiring him to name the school he was
claiming to attend; he did not fill in fields requiring him to name his sex
or his nationa lity. Many of the hijackers did not provide the US address
where they would be living, as is required. One listed his destination city
as "no." One claimed his occupation was "teater."
Evidently, no one in the Bush Administration considered Ms. Harty's failures
to be serious. When Mary Ryan left her position, Sec. Powell and President
Bush promoted Ms. Harty to fill that vacancy. The Senate docilely confirmed
her in lame duck session.
Rampant incompetence within the State Department is established by the
record. Is this attributable to the frequency with which its officials
accept fees from the Saudi government after retirement? Could the promise of
future employment with a Saudi-controlled entity affect the performance of
US officia ls while they are still ostensibly working on behalf of the
citizens of this country?
The list of such officials who later took Saudi money includes, according to
Joel Mowbray: Fred Dutton, ***'t. Sec. for Congressional affairs; a
successor in that position, Linwood Holton; Peter Madigan, Deputy ***'t.
Sec. for Legislative Affairs; also, Ambassadors Walter Cutler, Charles
Freeman, Frank Carlucci, Hermann Eilts, Wyche Fowler, Ned Walker, David
Mack, William Eagleton, Michael Sterner, and David Ransom have received
Saudi money through employment at 'think tanks' largely funded by the Saudi
government or individuals.
Clearly, other American interests profited by the collapse of safeguards in
the visa granting process. The travel industry has long depended for much of
its profits on foreign tourists. America's education industry also has
profited from tuition paid by aliens. Factions within the education industry
lobbied against systems for tracking of foreign students and a
comprehensive and effective pilot system, know as CIPRIS, was dismantled
prior to 9/11. The current student tracking system in place, SEVIS, is
dangerously flawed. The result is that aliens with no intention of attending
classes have, and will continue to, obtain entry to the US and then
disappeared into our population.
Even without visas, the terrorists could easily have entered the United
States through the Mexican border or through the Canadian border and our
seaports. The federal government's utter failure to control illegal
immigration is widely known. Why is it that our government has permitted
these conditions to arise and to continue?
while I think it is quite obvious to all ...(except arthur who is trying to set up another straw-man arguement)... let me make it perfectly clear that no where have I implied the columnar trees in Bankers Trust flew horizontally 600 feet from WTC2.
How preposterous can this Legend writer get?
Obviously the horizontal trajectory of 'concrete boulders' up to 1 foot in diameter is meant in this other portion of Bankers Trust examinations.
That is a separate but still related impact damage issue.
Arthur, you should tell your writers at Home-Office to come up with better straw-man attacks
Foxx, you masterBSer
QUOTE (Foxx+)
Check out the FEMA report on this peripheral damage. It is apparent that some of the debris was on a horizontal trajectory as it smashed through low level windows at Bankers Trust which was 600 feet from the closest point of the south tower.
How does 'falling debris' enter a building 600 feet away on a horizontal trajectory?
Yep... you got it... ONLY ONE PHYSICS explaination for that...
Explosive forces originating from low levels of WTC 2.
So you SHOW the picture of the Tree Columns in the side of the building but you use the quote that is about small pieces of concrete.
RIGHT.
But here is the KEY point.
The DEBRIS FIELD is VERY CONSISTANT with a GRAVITY DRIVEN COLLAPSE
http://thewebfairy.com/nerdcities/WTC/fig-1-7.jpg

Arthur
How does 'falling debris' enter a building 600 feet away on a horizontal trajectory?
Yep... you got it... ONLY ONE PHYSICS explaination for that...
Explosive forces originating from low levels of WTC 2.
So you SHOW the picture of the Tree Columns in the side of the building but you use the quote that is about small pieces of concrete.
RIGHT.
But here is the KEY point.
The DEBRIS FIELD is VERY CONSISTANT with a GRAVITY DRIVEN COLLAPSE
http://thewebfairy.com/nerdcities/WTC/fig-1-7.jpg

Arthur
Thought this might be handy
http://www.google.com/unclesam
(U.S. Government - Search all .gov and .mil sites)
and yes, arthur is in there...
http://www.google.com/unclesam
(U.S. Government - Search all .gov and .mil sites)
and yes, arthur is in there...
QUOTE (frater plecticus+Jan 31 2006, 03:40 PM)
Thought this might be handy
http://www.google.com/unclesam
(U.S. Government - Search all .gov and .mil sites)
and yes, arthur is in there...
Handy?
The only thing it finds for me is the letter to the DOE you already posted.
And which I still agree with.
You find anything wrong with me writing a letter of protest to the DOE over their support of NASA launching 47,000 curies of PU 239 and then using earth for a close gravity assist, thus barely missing earth, the risk of doing so is IMMENSE for a truely tiny benefit?
Well Punk, Do Ya?
Arthur
http://www.google.com/unclesam
(U.S. Government - Search all .gov and .mil sites)
and yes, arthur is in there...
Handy?
The only thing it finds for me is the letter to the DOE you already posted.
And which I still agree with.
You find anything wrong with me writing a letter of protest to the DOE over their support of NASA launching 47,000 curies of PU 239 and then using earth for a close gravity assist, thus barely missing earth, the risk of doing so is IMMENSE for a truely tiny benefit?
Well Punk, Do Ya?
Arthur
Well the last post was a drawing,
Here's an Aerial shot.
http://thewebfairy.com/nerdcities/WTC/fig-1-9A.jpg

Pretty clear we ain't talking about 600 ft. between WTC 2 and Bankers Trust
Is it a REAL surprise that it turns out Banker's Trust building is 600 ft from WTC 1?
Foxx can you say OOPS? (I know you were just quoting a FEMA report, but since it was FEMA that should alert you to DOUBLE CHECK everything).
Arthur
Here's an Aerial shot.
http://thewebfairy.com/nerdcities/WTC/fig-1-9A.jpg

Pretty clear we ain't talking about 600 ft. between WTC 2 and Bankers Trust
Is it a REAL surprise that it turns out Banker's Trust building is 600 ft from WTC 1?
Foxx can you say OOPS? (I know you were just quoting a FEMA report, but since it was FEMA that should alert you to DOUBLE CHECK everything).
Arthur
20 reasons to question the official story of 9/11
Oh, and also read this entire thread to see what extent the gubmint-supporting wackos go to to help cover up the crime (or at least keep the debate going round in circles until the final coup de grace can be delivered). Paranoid, you say? We'll see soon enough.
Oh, and also read this entire thread to see what extent the gubmint-supporting wackos go to to help cover up the crime (or at least keep the debate going round in circles until the final coup de grace can be delivered). Paranoid, you say? We'll see soon enough.
To whoever.
In the industry I'm in, we axe shows and people by pulling a show off the air or killing an actor off in the script if they don't perform to expectations.
It's our jargon. Nothing to do with real life death threats. OK?
Cy http://forum.physorg.com/html/emoticons/smile.gif
In the industry I'm in, we axe shows and people by pulling a show off the air or killing an actor off in the script if they don't perform to expectations.
It's our jargon. Nothing to do with real life death threats. OK?
Cy http://forum.physorg.com/html/emoticons/smile.gif
QUOTE
# Material Witness in 9/11 Probe Deported – On May 27, 2004, 26-year-old Mohdar Abdullah, a Yemeni national held as a material witness in connection with the 9/11 terrorist attacks, arrived in Yemen after being deported by ICE officials. Abdullah was arrested shortly after 9/11 and was found to have helped two of the 9/11 hijackers obtain Social Security cards, driver’s licenses, and information on flight schools. Abdullah was later convicted of visa fraud and, after serving his sentence, was ordered removed from the country.
# Saudi with Ties to 9/11 Hijackers Arrested – On May 27, 2004, ICE agents in San Diego arrested 34-year-old Hasan Saddiq Faseh Alddin, a Saudi national and U.S. legal permanent resident, on immigration charges resulting from two prior convictions for domestic violence. The arrest stemmed from a Joint Terrorism Task Force probe. In September 2001, Alddin roomed with a close friend of two of the 9/11 hijackers, Nawaf Alhamzi and Khalid al-Midhar. Alddin’s roommate departed the country the day before the 9/11 attacks. ICE placed Alddin in deportation proceedings. He has since departed the country.
# Saudi with Ties to 9/11 Hijackers Arrested – On May 27, 2004, ICE agents in San Diego arrested 34-year-old Hasan Saddiq Faseh Alddin, a Saudi national and U.S. legal permanent resident, on immigration charges resulting from two prior convictions for domestic violence. The arrest stemmed from a Joint Terrorism Task Force probe. In September 2001, Alddin roomed with a close friend of two of the 9/11 hijackers, Nawaf Alhamzi and Khalid al-Midhar. Alddin’s roommate departed the country the day before the 9/11 attacks. ICE placed Alddin in deportation proceedings. He has since departed the country.
they let them get away.....
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| # Material Witness in 9/11 Probe Deported – On May 27, 2004, 26-year-old Mohdar Abdullah, a Yemeni national held as a material witness in connection with the 9/11 terrorist attacks, arrived in Yemen after being deported by ICE officials. Abdullah was arrested shortly after 9/11 and was found to have helped two of the 9/11 hijackers obtain Social Security cards, driver’s licenses, and information on flight schools. Abdullah was later convicted of visa fraud and, after serving his sentence, was ordered removed from the country. # Saudi with Ties to 9/11 Hijackers Arrested – On May 27, 2004, ICE agents in San Diego arrested 34-year-old Hasan Saddiq Faseh Alddin, a Saudi national and U.S. legal permanent resident, on immigration charges resulting from two prior convictions for domestic violence. The arrest stemmed from a Joint Terrorism Task Force probe. In September 2001, Alddin roomed with a close friend of two of the 9/11 hijackers, Nawaf Alhamzi and Khalid al-Midhar. Alddin’s roommate departed the country the day before the 9/11 attacks. ICE placed Alddin in deportation proceedings. He has since departed the country. |
they let them get away.....
As Sen. Kyl has said: 9/11 could have been prevented "if State Department
personnel had merely followed the law and not granted non- immigrant visas to
15 of the 19 hijackers in Saudi Arabia."
If other US officials had not encouraged the illegal immigration of over 10
million aliens to the US and permitted these illegal aliens to reside here
there would not have been a massive population living outside the law which
gave the terrorists the ability to hide in plain site while they planned,
rehearsed, financed and carried out their mass murder. This nationwide
acceptance of massive lawlessness permitted the terrorists to freely
function in our society.
Illegal entry to the US was, and still is, an easy enterprise. All of the
9/11 murderers had visas issued to them by officials of the State
Department. Most, if not all, those visas were granted in clear violation of
the letter and spirit of the Department's own regulations and federal law.
However, the State Department has provided visas to terrorists for many
years prior to 9/11 and thus had fair warning that its procedures were
deficient.
For example, the Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) examined the
immigration histories of terrorists involved in seven conspiracies by
Islamic extremists to murder Americans. CIS included in its study only
those who had committed crimes inside the US, beginning with the Jan 25,
1993 murder of two CIA employees outside Langley headquarters, followed by
the 1st WTC attack, the plots on NYC landmarks and on the NYC subway system,
the embassy bombings, the Millennium Plot on LAX and lastly, the horrific
-3-
tragedy of September 11th, 2001.
Because CIS limited its study only to seven plots either uncovered,
attempted or carried out, and therefore did not attempt to uncover
"sleepers", the total number of terrorists studied was merely forty-eight.
Thirty-six of the forty -eight entered the US with visas issued by the State
Department, and of these several entered the US multiple times.
Given the knowledge that young Arab males to whom it had given visas had
been convicted of terrorist acts committed at least as early as the 1993 WTC
attack, the State Department had more than enough basis to recognize the
weaknesses in its visa granting procedures. However, instead of tightening
procedures State continued its reckless course of action. Mary Ryan, the
Department's chief of Consular Affairs from 1993 to 2002, blindly continued
the Visa Express program for Saudi Arabia which allowed anyone, including
non-Saudis, to apply for visas at privately operated travel agencies. And
during her tenure, Ms. Ryan was responsible for a reduction of the
percentage of applicants interviewed by cons ular officials from "most" to
"about one- fifth."
Clearly, Ms Ryan was reflecting an attitude that pervaded State Department
officials at the highest levels: On June 10, 2002 Deputy Secretary of State
Richard Armitage wrote that believing that "an applicant may pose a threat
to national security is insufficient [grounds] for a consular officer to
deny a visa." But the trail of guilt does not stop at Mr. Armitage, for it
was Sen. Ted Kennedy who was responsible fo r adding language to the 1996
immigration reform act which stipulated that "mere membership" in a
terrorist organization is insufficient basis for denying a visa to an applicant.
Whatever the roles of Messrs. Armitage and Kennedy in allowing terrorists
entry to the US, Ms. Ryan was clearly committed to Visa Express and allowing
virtually anyone to enter the US. After 9/11, Diane Andruch (Ryan's deputy)
reported that the program had been discontinued, but investigation proved
the expedited processing still continued. And incomprehensibly, despite
public anger over her activities, the State Department awarded Mary Ryan a
$15,000 bonus for her "outstanding performa nce" for the period April 16,
2001 to April 15, 2002. It was as if the State Department was affirming its
approval for incompetence.
One of the most damning examples of failures within the government can be
attributed to Maura Harty. It was to her that the 9/11 terrorists' visa
applications came for review.
According to analysis done by Joel Mowbray, nearly all the terrorists' visa
applications were obviously defective on the ir face. For example, that of
-4-
Abdulaziz Alomari (one of the hijackers of the plane which hit my son's
building) did not fill in the space requiring him to name the school he was
claiming to attend; he did not fill in fields requiring him to name his sex
or his nationa lity. Many of the hijackers did not provide the US address
where they would be living, as is required. One listed his destination city
as "no." One claimed his occupation was "teater."
Evidently, no one in the Bush Administration considered Ms. Harty's failures
to be serious. When Mary Ryan left her position, Sec. Powell and President
Bush promoted Ms. Harty to fill that vacancy. The Senate docilely confirmed
her in lame duck session.
Rampant incompetence within the State Department is established by the
record. Is this attributable to the frequency with which its officials
accept fees from the Saudi government after retirement? Could the promise of
future employment with a Saudi-controlled entity affect the performance of
US officia ls while they are still ostensibly working on behalf of the
citizens of this country?
The list of such officials who later took Saudi money includes, according to
Joel Mowbray: Fred Dutton, ***'t. Sec. for Congressional affairs; a
successor in that position, Linwood Holton; Peter Madigan, Deputy ***'t.
Sec. for Legislative Affairs; also, Ambassadors Walter Cutler, Charles
Freeman, Frank Carlucci, Hermann Eilts, Wyche Fowler, Ned Walker, David
Mack, William Eagleton, Michael Sterner, and David Ransom have received
Saudi money through employment at 'think tanks' largely funded by the Saudi
government or individuals.
Clearly, other American interests profited by the collapse of safeguards in
the visa granting process. The travel industry has long depended for much of
its profits on foreign tourists. America's education industry also has
profited from tuition paid by aliens. Factions within the education industry
lobbied against systems for tracking of foreign students and a
comprehensive and effective pilot system, know as CIPRIS, was dismantled
prior to 9/11. The current student tracking system in place, SEVIS, is
dangerously flawed. The result is that aliens with no intention of attending
classes have, and will continue to, obtain entry to the US and then
disappeared into our population.
Even without visas, the terrorists could easily have entered the United
States through the Mexican border or through the Canadian border and our
seaports. The federal government's utter failure to control illegal
immigration is widely known. Why is it that our government has permitted
these conditions to arise and to continue?
QUOTE (Guest_Mel+Jan 31 2006, 05:54 PM)
QUOTE (Common Sense+Jan 31 2006, 04:56 PM)
QUOTE (Mel+Jan 31 2006, 04:50 PM)
QUOTE (Schneibster+Jan 31 2006, 07:12 AM)
I've checked on case law- surprising how much you can find out searching on the 'Net- and it looks like you're gonna pay my credit cards off, Fauxie. Assuming you're good for it and we don't have to attach your income or something. We'll see what the lawyer says tomorrow morning; I'm pretty sure there's a criminal case to be made here, as well. Have a nice evening, sport.
Ya know, I normally skim right by stuff you people post (Schneibster, Arthur, Coastal, etc) because it's just simpler to go directly to the posts where your crap is refuted (you're your own worst enemy...nothing but condescending bullshite that I don't have the stomach to read, so I mostly don't read it). But this stuff is taking the cake. You are one serious wack-job, Schneibster.
I can't wait till you bring this entire thread into the public forum via your impending court-room battle over your ugly mug. There'll be no question as to your loony status then, and we'll also get some free publicity on 9/11 'truth' and what the whistle-blowers deal with on a regular basis (I'm sure people are gonna love the amazing ''bellows' theory).
For a proven liar, you've sure got a big mouth. You need a right-good spanking from your mommy, and when she finds out you've been using her computer, you might just get that spanking.
The only proof is that you do to Schneibster what you do in your CT sites. You LIE about the facts hoping no one will dig deeper. All anyone has to do is follow the links and read Schneibster's reply to see what a crack-pot you really are. You're about as useful to this debate as a tape worm sticking out of a dogs A$$ is to a dog.
We'll let the jury in your wacko-world court case decide.
In the real world we call this trumped up and frivolous.

Pretty well, considering you are defending the indefensible....for now

Pretty well, considering you are defending the indefensible....for now
It's the 300th page and STILL the conspiracy theorist are proven wrong!!! Will it ever end!
Which conspiracy are you referring to ?
Well, good question arthur. I guess you can fiddle around with a ruler on your computer screen (very scientific) or you could go to this FEMA document...
http://www.house.gov/science/hot/wtc/wtc-report/WTC_ch6.pdf
Where you will find the following...
Well, good question arthur. I guess you can fiddle around with a ruler on your computer screen (very scientific) or you could go to this FEMA document...
http://www.house.gov/science/hot/wtc/wtc-report/WTC_ch6.pdf
Where you will find the following...
"{Bankers Trust} is located directly across Liberty Street from the former site of WTC 2, about 600 feet due south of the southest corner of WTC 2."

Of course, if you don't want to waste time downloading the original pdf document, you can find the same transferred to html (compliments of the "Guardian")...
http://911research.wtc7.net/mirrors/guardi...wtc/WTC_ch6.htm
Now you say...
Soooo, you now agree that the official government sponsored FEMA report is a fairy tale?
And It does look like you may have a point...regarding the 600 feet error (on the part of FEMA), but your concentration on this point is really just an obfuscating attempt in trying to find some error (on my part) that you can twist into accusations of deliberate lies on MY part.
That is not a scientific attempt to debate the issue. It is an 'attack the messenger' tactic.
Whether it was 250 feet or 600 feet ... the 'concrete' missiles were still travelling horizontally from low levels of the building... it doesn't change the horizontal nature of the trajectory.
Nor does it significantly alter the fact that 100 ton columns of steel were forcefully laterally ejected at least twice the distance of the building diameter from near the beginning of the 'collapse'.
In a gravity-driven collapse things fall straight down (according to gravity)...at least until they reach the point of a landslide of debris which spreads out from the base of the building on top of previously landed debris. They don't just jump out horizontally in energetic bursts from the upper reaches of the building.
----------------
Soooo, you now agree that the official government sponsored FEMA report is a fairy tale?
And It does look like you may have a point...regarding the 600 feet error (on the part of FEMA), but your concentration on this point is really just an obfuscating attempt in trying to find some error (on my part) that you can twist into accusations of deliberate lies on MY part.
That is not a scientific attempt to debate the issue. It is an 'attack the messenger' tactic.
Whether it was 250 feet or 600 feet ... the 'concrete' missiles were still travelling horizontally from low levels of the building... it doesn't change the horizontal nature of the trajectory.
Nor does it significantly alter the fact that 100 ton columns of steel were forcefully laterally ejected at least twice the distance of the building diameter from near the beginning of the 'collapse'.
In a gravity-driven collapse things fall straight down (according to gravity)...at least until they reach the point of a landslide of debris which spreads out from the base of the building on top of previously landed debris. They don't just jump out horizontally in energetic bursts from the upper reaches of the building.
----------------
Originally posted by adoucette
Foxx, you masterBSer
So you SHOW the picture of the Tree Columns in the side of the building but you use the quote that is about small pieces of concrete.
My Quote: Check out the FEMA report on this peripheral damage. It is apparent that some of the debris was on a horizontal trajectory as it smashed through low level windows at Bankers Trust which was 600 feet from the closest point of the south tower.
How does 'falling debris' enter a building 600 feet away on a horizontal trajectory?
Yep... you got it... ONLY ONE PHYSICS explaination for that...
Explosive forces originating from low levels of WTC 2.
If you read the whole post in context, the portion you quote above was referring to the FEMA report on Bankers Trust and the 'missiles' which horizontally entered the building (chunks of concrete) which came from the lower levels of WTC 2. Obviously if they entered horizontally, then they originated from the same level of WTC 2.
If you are not smart enough to figure that out, and try to associate the photo of the columnar trees with this concrete damage, that's your problem. This is a clear straw-man obfuscation 'attack' on your part.
No one but an idiot would think that I was implying that the columnar trees in the face of Bankers Trust were ejected horizontally from the same level of WTC 2. That is quite clear from the picture which shows the trajectory of the columnar trees entering from a high steep angle...
http://oceanmirage.homestead.com/AFC01untitled1.html
Keep proving how very sick you are Schnensable.
Pray tell HOW those of us who are investigating mounting evidence that the Neo-con administration is NOT ONLY guilty of slaughtering innocent Iraqis and Lying through their teeth (as do you), but are also guilty of slaughtering innocent americans.
None of us here have any question whatsoever that the neo-cons sold false and misleading information to enter an illegal war of aggression against a foreign state which was of no threat to the US. BUSH (as Head Honcho) should be impeached and charged with Treason for the illegal war, but NONE of the discussion related to the REAL Cause of the towers destruction (as a means to justify the war in the first place) detracts whatsoever from OTHER crimes that the neo-cons are guilty of. Your straw-man BS is total garbage as are you and the rest of your puppets.
Burn, baby... Burn!!!
Firstly, I am against all forms of war and terrorism.
Secondly, no one in this world has been charged with the 9-11 murders
Thirdly, there is no REAL EVIDENCE that supports the official conspiracy theory
Fourthly, I am not helping Bush get away with anything
Soooo, you now agree that the official government sponsored FEMA report is a fairy tale?
And It does look like you may have a point...regarding the 600 feet error (on the part of FEMA), but your concentration on this point is really just an obfuscating attempt in trying to find some error (on my part) that you can twist into accusations of deliberate lies on MY part.
That is not a scientific attempt to debate the issue. It is an 'attack the messenger' tactic.
Whether it was 250 feet or 600 feet ... the 'concrete' missiles were still travelling horizontally from low levels of the building... it doesn't change the horizontal nature of the trajectory.
Nor does it significantly alter the fact that 100 ton columns of steel were forcefully laterally ejected at least twice the distance of the building diameter from near the beginning of the 'collapse'.
In a gravity-driven collapse things fall straight down (according to gravity)...at least until they reach the point of a landslide of debris which spreads out from the base of the building on top of previously landed debris. They don't just jump out horizontally in energetic bursts from the upper reaches of the building.
More FOXX BS.
As I pointed out, Foxx was NOT the source for the 600 ft., that came from FEMA.
And how many times have I told him, I've NEVER read the FEMA report and I've never defended the FEMA report. (Not that I think its a fairy tale as Foxx claims, just that I haven't read it) I joined this debate right after the FINAL NIST report was published and it is my primary source of info.
I did caution him to double check stuff from FEMA (seems like good advice considering how well they handled Katrina)
Thus it is quite obvious that I was not accusing him of lying, nor was there any attacking the messenger,
Au contraire
I was attacking the MESSAGE.
It DOES make a difference if it is 600 ft vs 250 ft.
Which brings me to the question. Foxx, in all the forces released in that collapse you can't envison ANY WAY that pieces of concrete could be expelled roughly horizontally with respect to the Banker's trust building?
Really? You mean when that top section fell onto the floors that collapsed no sideways forces could possibly be generated in those steel pieces?
And NO, I don't believe in a gravity driven collapse that things always just fall STRAIGHT DOWN, not with all those elastic pieces of steel involved. You do remember all those pictures of TWISTED pieces of steel don't you.
Arthur
:D:D
Heh, watch this.
ETA: Just saw Faux' immediately prior post, I keep tellin you, Faux, you're a paranoid, I use one and only one ID here. What a maroon.
Be sure and let me know what you think of the bill when you get it; you're in for a very nasty surprise. I'm not discussing this here any more.
wooooooaahhh.


Protecting the murders of 3000 innocent Americans ?
Protecting the murders of 3000 innocent Americans ?
You're protecting the murder of 30,000 Iraq's and the murder of 3000, americans because that murder is Bin Laden. Have you no shame?
SHOW ME THE PROOF
SHOW ME THE PROOF
Show me proof the administration did it...
I didn't say the administration did it.
SHOW ME THE PROOF
Show me proof the administration did it...
I didn't say the administration did it.
The 9/11 rogue network subsumed some of the asteroids of the 1990s, that is to say, the privatized intelligence enterprises operating under Reagan’s executive order 12333. The September criminals were financiers, top-level bureaucrats, flag-rank military officers, top intelligence officials, and technical specialists; the prime focus of their operations was in all probability a series of private sector locations, where confidentiality could be best assured by excluding elements loyal to the constitution. It is therefore probably misleading to think of people like Cheney as the hand-on field commanders of the terrorist forces of 9/11, although Cheney appears to have been complicit in other ways. Bush was expendable enough to undergo an assassination attempt that morning; he owes his continued tenure in office to his speedy capitulation to the demands of the September criminals.
I'd say the weapons grade Anthrax is a good place to start a serious inquiry


I didn't say the administration did it.
SHOW ME THE PROOF
Show me proof the administration did it...
I didn't say the administration did it.
The 9/11 rogue network subsumed some of the asteroids of the 1990s, that is to say, the privatized intelligence enterprises operating under Reagan’s executive order 12333. The September criminals were financiers, top-level bureaucrats, flag-rank military officers, top intelligence officials, and technical specialists; the prime focus of their operations was in all probability a series of private sector locations, where confidentiality could be best assured by excluding elements loyal to the constitution. It is therefore probably misleading to think of people like Cheney as the hand-on field commanders of the terrorist forces of 9/11, although Cheney appears to have been complicit in other ways. Bush was expendable enough to undergo an assassination attempt that morning; he owes his continued tenure in office to his speedy capitulation to the demands of the September criminals.
I'd say the weapons grade Anthrax is a good place to start a serious inquiry



Good call.
Ya know, I normally skim right by stuff you people post (Schneibster, Arthur, Coastal, etc) because it's just simpler to go directly to the posts where your crap is refuted (you're your own worst enemy...nothing but condescending bullshite that I don't have the stomach to read, so I mostly don't read it). But this stuff is taking the cake. You are one serious wack-job, Schneibster.
I can't wait till you bring this entire thread into the public forum via your impending court-room battle over your ugly mug. There'll be no question as to your loony status then, and we'll also get some free publicity on 9/11 'truth' and what the whistle-blowers deal with on a regular basis (I'm sure people are gonna love the amazing ''bellows' theory).
For a proven liar, you've sure got a big mouth. You need a right-good spanking from your mommy, and when she finds out you've been using her computer, you might just get that spanking.
The only proof is that you do to Schneibster what you do in your CT sites. You LIE about the facts hoping no one will dig deeper. All anyone has to do is follow the links and read Schneibster's reply to see what a crack-pot you really are. You're about as useful to this debate as a tape worm sticking out of a dogs A$$ is to a dog.
We'll let the jury in your wacko-world court case decide.
In the real world we call this trumped up and frivolous.
QUOTE (frater plecticus+Jan 31 2006, 06:07 PM)
Don't worry, Mell. their day of infamy will be coming pretty soon.
Gee, how will I ever sleep at night...
Gee, how will I ever sleep at night...
QUOTE (adoucette+Jan 31 2006, 08:08 PM)
Well the last post was a drawing,
Here's an Aerial shot.
http://thewebfairy.com/nerdcities/WTC/fig-1-9A.jpg

Pretty clear we ain't talking about 600 ft. between WTC 2 and Bankers Trust
Is it a REAL surprise that it turns out Banker's Trust building is 600 ft from WTC 1?
Foxx can you say OOPS? (I know you were just quoting a FEMA report, but since it was FEMA that should alert you to DOUBLE CHECK everything).
Arthur
HAHAHA! Imagine that! WTC 1 is about the same distance from WTC 7 as WTC 2 is from Bankers Trust... And BOTH were hit by debris!!!
HOLY OBFUSCATION BATMAN!!!! It can't be!!! It's the 300th page and STILL the conspiracy theoriest are proven wrong!!! Will it ever end!
I expect Coastal to get a kick out of this as well. Heh!
Here's an Aerial shot.
http://thewebfairy.com/nerdcities/WTC/fig-1-9A.jpg

Pretty clear we ain't talking about 600 ft. between WTC 2 and Bankers Trust
Is it a REAL surprise that it turns out Banker's Trust building is 600 ft from WTC 1?
Foxx can you say OOPS? (I know you were just quoting a FEMA report, but since it was FEMA that should alert you to DOUBLE CHECK everything).
Arthur
HAHAHA! Imagine that! WTC 1 is about the same distance from WTC 7 as WTC 2 is from Bankers Trust... And BOTH were hit by debris!!!
HOLY OBFUSCATION BATMAN!!!! It can't be!!! It's the 300th page and STILL the conspiracy theoriest are proven wrong!!! Will it ever end!
I expect Coastal to get a kick out of this as well. Heh!
QUOTE (Mel+Jan 31 2006, 08:11 PM)
20 reasons to question the official story of 9/11
Oh, and also read this entire thread to see what extent the gubmint-supporting wackos go to to help cover up the crime (or at least keep the debate going round in circles until the final coup de grace can be delivered). Paranoid, you say? We'll see soon enough.
Will you be over throwing the government sometime soon? The sooner the better you know, for the gene pools sake.
Oh, and also read this entire thread to see what extent the gubmint-supporting wackos go to to help cover up the crime (or at least keep the debate going round in circles until the final coup de grace can be delivered). Paranoid, you say? We'll see soon enough.
Will you be over throwing the government sometime soon? The sooner the better you know, for the gene pools sake.
QUOTE
Gee, how will I ever sleep at night... dry.gif

Pretty well, considering you are defending the indefensible....for now
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| Gee, how will I ever sleep at night... dry.gif |

Pretty well, considering you are defending the indefensible....for now
It's the 300th page and STILL the conspiracy theorist are proven wrong!!! Will it ever end!
Which conspiracy are you referring to ?
QUOTE
Originally posted by adoucette
Is it really 600 feet from the WTC 2 to the Banker's trust building?
Is it really 600 feet from the WTC 2 to the Banker's trust building?
Well, good question arthur. I guess you can fiddle around with a ruler on your computer screen (very scientific) or you could go to this FEMA document...
http://www.house.gov/science/hot/wtc/wtc-report/WTC_ch6.pdf
Where you will find the following...
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| Originally posted by adoucette Is it really 600 feet from the WTC 2 to the Banker's trust building? |
Well, good question arthur. I guess you can fiddle around with a ruler on your computer screen (very scientific) or you could go to this FEMA document...
http://www.house.gov/science/hot/wtc/wtc-report/WTC_ch6.pdf
Where you will find the following...
"{Bankers Trust} is located directly across Liberty Street from the former site of WTC 2, about 600 feet due south of the southest corner of WTC 2."

Of course, if you don't want to waste time downloading the original pdf document, you can find the same transferred to html (compliments of the "Guardian")...
http://911research.wtc7.net/mirrors/guardi...wtc/WTC_ch6.htm
Now you say...
QUOTE
Pretty clear we ain't talking about 600 ft. between WTC 2 and Bankers Trust
Is it a REAL surprise that it turns out Banker's Trust building is 600 ft from WTC 1?
Foxx can you say OOPS? (I know you were just quoting a FEMA report, but since it was FEMA that should alert you to DOUBLE CHECK everything).
Is it a REAL surprise that it turns out Banker's Trust building is 600 ft from WTC 1?
Foxx can you say OOPS? (I know you were just quoting a FEMA report, but since it was FEMA that should alert you to DOUBLE CHECK everything).
Soooo, you now agree that the official government sponsored FEMA report is a fairy tale?
And It does look like you may have a point...regarding the 600 feet error (on the part of FEMA), but your concentration on this point is really just an obfuscating attempt in trying to find some error (on my part) that you can twist into accusations of deliberate lies on MY part.
That is not a scientific attempt to debate the issue. It is an 'attack the messenger' tactic.
Whether it was 250 feet or 600 feet ... the 'concrete' missiles were still travelling horizontally from low levels of the building... it doesn't change the horizontal nature of the trajectory.
Nor does it significantly alter the fact that 100 ton columns of steel were forcefully laterally ejected at least twice the distance of the building diameter from near the beginning of the 'collapse'.
In a gravity-driven collapse things fall straight down (according to gravity)...at least until they reach the point of a landslide of debris which spreads out from the base of the building on top of previously landed debris. They don't just jump out horizontally in energetic bursts from the upper reaches of the building.
----------------
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| Pretty clear we ain't talking about 600 ft. between WTC 2 and Bankers Trust Is it a REAL surprise that it turns out Banker's Trust building is 600 ft from WTC 1? Foxx can you say OOPS? (I know you were just quoting a FEMA report, but since it was FEMA that should alert you to DOUBLE CHECK everything). |
Soooo, you now agree that the official government sponsored FEMA report is a fairy tale?
And It does look like you may have a point...regarding the 600 feet error (on the part of FEMA), but your concentration on this point is really just an obfuscating attempt in trying to find some error (on my part) that you can twist into accusations of deliberate lies on MY part.
That is not a scientific attempt to debate the issue. It is an 'attack the messenger' tactic.
Whether it was 250 feet or 600 feet ... the 'concrete' missiles were still travelling horizontally from low levels of the building... it doesn't change the horizontal nature of the trajectory.
Nor does it significantly alter the fact that 100 ton columns of steel were forcefully laterally ejected at least twice the distance of the building diameter from near the beginning of the 'collapse'.
In a gravity-driven collapse things fall straight down (according to gravity)...at least until they reach the point of a landslide of debris which spreads out from the base of the building on top of previously landed debris. They don't just jump out horizontally in energetic bursts from the upper reaches of the building.
----------------
Originally posted by adoucette
Foxx, you masterBSer
So you SHOW the picture of the Tree Columns in the side of the building but you use the quote that is about small pieces of concrete.
My Quote: Check out the FEMA report on this peripheral damage. It is apparent that some of the debris was on a horizontal trajectory as it smashed through low level windows at Bankers Trust which was 600 feet from the closest point of the south tower.
How does 'falling debris' enter a building 600 feet away on a horizontal trajectory?
Yep... you got it... ONLY ONE PHYSICS explaination for that...
Explosive forces originating from low levels of WTC 2.
If you read the whole post in context, the portion you quote above was referring to the FEMA report on Bankers Trust and the 'missiles' which horizontally entered the building (chunks of concrete) which came from the lower levels of WTC 2. Obviously if they entered horizontally, then they originated from the same level of WTC 2.
If you are not smart enough to figure that out, and try to associate the photo of the columnar trees with this concrete damage, that's your problem. This is a clear straw-man obfuscation 'attack' on your part.
No one but an idiot would think that I was implying that the columnar trees in the face of Bankers Trust were ejected horizontally from the same level of WTC 2. That is quite clear from the picture which shows the trajectory of the columnar trees entering from a high steep angle...
http://oceanmirage.homestead.com/AFC01untitled1.html
cue Arthur....
OR this other Amazing Flying Column which impaled WFC 3...


QUOTE
Originally posted by Schnensible
Two can play this sick game..
Meanwhile you're helping Bush get away with this...
Two can play this sick game..
Meanwhile you're helping Bush get away with this...
Keep proving how very sick you are Schnensable.
Pray tell HOW those of us who are investigating mounting evidence that the Neo-con administration is NOT ONLY guilty of slaughtering innocent Iraqis and Lying through their teeth (as do you), but are also guilty of slaughtering innocent americans.
None of us here have any question whatsoever that the neo-cons sold false and misleading information to enter an illegal war of aggression against a foreign state which was of no threat to the US. BUSH (as Head Honcho) should be impeached and charged with Treason for the illegal war, but NONE of the discussion related to the REAL Cause of the towers destruction (as a means to justify the war in the first place) detracts whatsoever from OTHER crimes that the neo-cons are guilty of. Your straw-man BS is total garbage as are you and the rest of your puppets.
Burn, baby... Burn!!!
QUOTE
Now you can show me real proof or we can play the "Post the sickest picture game" and accuse each other of helping to murder innocent people.
Firstly, I am against all forms of war and terrorism.
Secondly, no one in this world has been charged with the 9-11 murders
Thirdly, there is no REAL EVIDENCE that supports the official conspiracy theory
Fourthly, I am not helping Bush get away with anything
QUOTE (Foxx+Jan 31 2006, 05:02 PM)
QUOTE
Pretty clear we ain't talking about 600 ft. between WTC 2 and Bankers Trust
Is it a REAL surprise that it turns out Banker's Trust building is 600 ft from WTC 1?
Foxx can you say OOPS? (I know you were just quoting a FEMA report, but since it was FEMA that should alert you to DOUBLE CHECK everything).
Is it a REAL surprise that it turns out Banker's Trust building is 600 ft from WTC 1?
Foxx can you say OOPS? (I know you were just quoting a FEMA report, but since it was FEMA that should alert you to DOUBLE CHECK everything).
Soooo, you now agree that the official government sponsored FEMA report is a fairy tale?
And It does look like you may have a point...regarding the 600 feet error (on the part of FEMA), but your concentration on this point is really just an obfuscating attempt in trying to find some error (on my part) that you can twist into accusations of deliberate lies on MY part.
That is not a scientific attempt to debate the issue. It is an 'attack the messenger' tactic.
Whether it was 250 feet or 600 feet ... the 'concrete' missiles were still travelling horizontally from low levels of the building... it doesn't change the horizontal nature of the trajectory.
Nor does it significantly alter the fact that 100 ton columns of steel were forcefully laterally ejected at least twice the distance of the building diameter from near the beginning of the 'collapse'.
In a gravity-driven collapse things fall straight down (according to gravity)...at least until they reach the point of a landslide of debris which spreads out from the base of the building on top of previously landed debris. They don't just jump out horizontally in energetic bursts from the upper reaches of the building.
More FOXX BS.
As I pointed out, Foxx was NOT the source for the 600 ft., that came from FEMA.
And how many times have I told him, I've NEVER read the FEMA report and I've never defended the FEMA report. (Not that I think its a fairy tale as Foxx claims, just that I haven't read it) I joined this debate right after the FINAL NIST report was published and it is my primary source of info.
I did caution him to double check stuff from FEMA (seems like good advice considering how well they handled Katrina)
Thus it is quite obvious that I was not accusing him of lying, nor was there any attacking the messenger,
Au contraire
I was attacking the MESSAGE.
It DOES make a difference if it is 600 ft vs 250 ft.
Which brings me to the question. Foxx, in all the forces released in that collapse you can't envison ANY WAY that pieces of concrete could be expelled roughly horizontally with respect to the Banker's trust building?
Really? You mean when that top section fell onto the floors that collapsed no sideways forces could possibly be generated in those steel pieces?
And NO, I don't believe in a gravity driven collapse that things always just fall STRAIGHT DOWN, not with all those elastic pieces of steel involved. You do remember all those pictures of TWISTED pieces of steel don't you.
Arthur
The above objectional photo posted by Schneibster under one of his psuedonyms has been reported to moderators.
I hope that he will remove it immediately, and moderators bar THAT alter-ego puppet from this forum permanently.
You are a sick & disgusting person, Schneiby.
I hope that he will remove it immediately, and moderators bar THAT alter-ego puppet from this forum permanently.
You are a sick & disgusting person, Schneiby.
Heh, watch this.
ETA: Just saw Faux' immediately prior post, I keep tellin you, Faux, you're a paranoid, I use one and only one ID here. What a maroon.
Be sure and let me know what you think of the bill when you get it; you're in for a very nasty surprise. I'm not discussing this here any more.
QUOTE
Be sure and let me know what you think of the bill when you get it; you're in for a very nasty surprise. I'm not discussing this here any more.
wooooooaahhh.


I will have to be at a 'puter that can read .xls files.
Presently I don't have that reader on this computer and the IT guys at work only install such on those stations they deem require it.
Presently I don't have that reader on this computer and the IT guys at work only install such on those stations they deem require it.
What's the matter, can't take looking at the people you help kill with your Roveian "posion well" conspiracy?
Those dead children in Iraq are on YOUR head as well. I hope that image is SEERED into your head. YOU are helping Rove deflect attention from Bush's TRUE crimes to something laughable on it's face. I hope YOU sleep well knowing more children will die when the republican slime win the next election with your help.
Heh!
Those dead children in Iraq are on YOUR head as well. I hope that image is SEERED into your head. YOU are helping Rove deflect attention from Bush's TRUE crimes to something laughable on it's face. I hope YOU sleep well knowing more children will die when the republican slime win the next election with your help.
Heh!
QUOTE
something laughable on it's face
Protecting the murders of 3000 innocent Americans ?
QUOTE (frater plecticus+Jan 31 2006, 10:50 PM)
QUOTE
something laughable on it's face
Protecting the murders of 3000 innocent Americans ?
You're protecting the murder of 30,000 Iraq's and the murder of 3000, americans because that murder is Bin Laden. Have you no shame?
QUOTE
because that murder is Bin Laden
SHOW ME THE PROOF
QUOTE (frater plecticus+Jan 31 2006, 10:55 PM)
QUOTE
because that murder is Bin Laden
SHOW ME THE PROOF
Show me proof the administration did it...
QUOTE (special Guest_Candy+Jan 31 2006, 08:20 PM)
To whoever.
In the industry I'm in, we axe shows and people by pulling a show off the air or killing an actor off in the script if they don't perform to expectations.
It's our jargon. Nothing to do with real life death threats. OK?
Cy http://forum.physorg.com/html/emoticons/smile.gif
Why, thanks Schn.. er, Candy... for dropping by to provide such valuable insight from your industry. In Shillster's now-deleted pyschotic screed he threatened to "find you and axe you". Do you use the term like that in your industry as well?
In the industry I'm in, we axe shows and people by pulling a show off the air or killing an actor off in the script if they don't perform to expectations.
It's our jargon. Nothing to do with real life death threats. OK?
Cy http://forum.physorg.com/html/emoticons/smile.gif
Why, thanks Schn.. er, Candy... for dropping by to provide such valuable insight from your industry. In Shillster's now-deleted pyschotic screed he threatened to "find you and axe you". Do you use the term like that in your industry as well?
I have plans to take down the Empire State building. One of my evil mooslim henchmen will crash into the lobby door with his bicycle. If my calculations are correct, global collapse should ensue.
I have also purchased a digital video camera, so from now on all my releases will be on DVD format.
Oh ya, i almost forgot..... death to amerika.
P.S. I hate your freedoms.
I have also purchased a digital video camera, so from now on all my releases will be on DVD format.
Oh ya, i almost forgot..... death to amerika.
P.S. I hate your freedoms.
QUOTE
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE | ||
Show me proof the administration did it... |
I didn't say the administration did it.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| because that murder is Bin Laden |
SHOW ME THE PROOF
Show me proof the administration did it...
I didn't say the administration did it.
The 9/11 rogue network subsumed some of the asteroids of the 1990s, that is to say, the privatized intelligence enterprises operating under Reagan’s executive order 12333. The September criminals were financiers, top-level bureaucrats, flag-rank military officers, top intelligence officials, and technical specialists; the prime focus of their operations was in all probability a series of private sector locations, where confidentiality could be best assured by excluding elements loyal to the constitution. It is therefore probably misleading to think of people like Cheney as the hand-on field commanders of the terrorist forces of 9/11, although Cheney appears to have been complicit in other ways. Bush was expendable enough to undergo an assassination attempt that morning; he owes his continued tenure in office to his speedy capitulation to the demands of the September criminals.
I'd say the weapons grade Anthrax is a good place to start a serious inquiry


To JamesX.
Whoever on the internet is going to be axed has to be found out through their internet provider address and then be axed if it can be done legally.
Find then axe seems plain to me. Are you too young to know the jargon yet? I bet if you heard "cut" in the movie business you would expect someone to slash your throat. bye bye Jamie.
Cy http://forum.physorg.com/html/emoticons/smile.gif
Whoever on the internet is going to be axed has to be found out through their internet provider address and then be axed if it can be done legally.
Find then axe seems plain to me. Are you too young to know the jargon yet? I bet if you heard "cut" in the movie business you would expect someone to slash your throat. bye bye Jamie.
Cy http://forum.physorg.com/html/emoticons/smile.gif
QUOTE (special Guest_Candy+Jan 31 2006, 11:54 PM)
To JamesX.
Whoever on the internet is going to be axed has to be found out through their internet provider address and then be axed if it can be done legally.
Find then axe seems plain to me. Are you too young to know the jargon yet? I bet if you heard "cut" in the movie business you would expect someone to slash your throat. bye bye Jamie.
Cy http://forum.physorg.com/html/emoticons/smile.gif
Schnozz is very lucky to have such an adroit and timely entertainment industry insider such as yourself (who also knows a thing or two about IPs!) leaping to his semantic defense on a physics board. Thanks for sharing, Candy!
Whoever on the internet is going to be axed has to be found out through their internet provider address and then be axed if it can be done legally.
Find then axe seems plain to me. Are you too young to know the jargon yet? I bet if you heard "cut" in the movie business you would expect someone to slash your throat. bye bye Jamie.
Cy http://forum.physorg.com/html/emoticons/smile.gif
Schnozz is very lucky to have such an adroit and timely entertainment industry insider such as yourself (who also knows a thing or two about IPs!) leaping to his semantic defense on a physics board. Thanks for sharing, Candy!
Sigh, newbs. Nothin you can do with 'em.
QUOTE (frater plecticus+Jan 31 2006, 11:35 PM)
QUOTE
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE | ||
Show me proof the administration did it... |
I didn't say the administration did it.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| because that murder is Bin Laden |
SHOW ME THE PROOF
Show me proof the administration did it...
I didn't say the administration did it.
The 9/11 rogue network subsumed some of the asteroids of the 1990s, that is to say, the privatized intelligence enterprises operating under Reagan’s executive order 12333. The September criminals were financiers, top-level bureaucrats, flag-rank military officers, top intelligence officials, and technical specialists; the prime focus of their operations was in all probability a series of private sector locations, where confidentiality could be best assured by excluding elements loyal to the constitution. It is therefore probably misleading to think of people like Cheney as the hand-on field commanders of the terrorist forces of 9/11, although Cheney appears to have been complicit in other ways. Bush was expendable enough to undergo an assassination attempt that morning; he owes his continued tenure in office to his speedy capitulation to the demands of the September criminals.
I'd say the weapons grade Anthrax is a good place to start a serious inquiry


Good call.
When the US goverment is riddled with Zionists, the hand of Mossad all over September 11, Israel a main beneficiary, Odigo etc, it does not require a Sherlock Holmes type of deduction to conclude where investigations might begin.
"Evidence linking these Israelis to 9/11 is classified. I cannot tell you about evidence that has been gathered. It's classified information."
-- US official quoted in Carl Cameron's Fox News report on the Israeli spy ring and its connections to 9-11.
"Evidence linking these Israelis to 9/11 is classified. I cannot tell you about evidence that has been gathered. It's classified information."
-- US official quoted in Carl Cameron's Fox News report on the Israeli spy ring and its connections to 9-11.
Schneibster deductions for month of January:
$2500 cleaning up forum after psychotic episode.
$1000 posting picture dangerous to official fairy tail.
$1,000,000 giving shill’s a bad name.
$5000 monthly internet lawyer fee (suing people for laughing at him).
$2500 cleaning up forum after psychotic episode.
$1000 posting picture dangerous to official fairy tail.
$1,000,000 giving shill’s a bad name.
$5000 monthly internet lawyer fee (suing people for laughing at him).
QUOTE (brian+Jan 31 2006, 09:20 PM)
the US goverment is riddled with Zionists
Well now we know what YOUR agenda is Brian.
Hmmm?
What do you know, same as OBL's
Coincidence?
I think not.
Arthur
Well now we know what YOUR agenda is Brian.
Hmmm?
What do you know, same as OBL's
Coincidence?
I think not.
Arthur
QUOTE (adoucette+Feb 1 2006, 01:44 AM)
QUOTE (brian+Jan 31 2006, 09:20 PM)
the US goverment is riddled with Zionists
Well now we know what YOUR agenda is Brian.
Hmmm?
What do you know, same as OBL's
Coincidence?
I think not.
Arthur
Arthur's gay.
Pass it on.
Well now we know what YOUR agenda is Brian.
Hmmm?
What do you know, same as OBL's
Coincidence?
I think not.
Arthur
Arthur's gay.
Pass it on.
QUOTE (Schneibster+Jan 31 2006, 08:09 AM)
If that turns out to be true, this could turn really, really ugly, depending on how Canada looks at it. As far as the civil law issues, the tort is clear: my property was taken without my permission, and used without my permission, and not only do I have no assurance that it will not again be so used, and no assurance that other copies of it don't exist in the possession of the individual involved, but this is property that is clearly of use to the individual, so much so that they engaged in stealing it.
canada looks at it like you would be wasting our time and money on VERY frivolous lawsuits.
the copywrite law does not apply to personal use. foxx would have to make money off of his 'possession' of your ' property' for you to effectively 'do' anything.
whenever someone views your precious image in a browser, it is downloaded into their cache. they are ALL STEALING FROM YOU!
'this' could get really ugly. you're such a sore loser.
canada looks at it like you would be wasting our time and money on VERY frivolous lawsuits.
the copywrite law does not apply to personal use. foxx would have to make money off of his 'possession' of your ' property' for you to effectively 'do' anything.
whenever someone views your precious image in a browser, it is downloaded into their cache. they are ALL STEALING FROM YOU!
'this' could get really ugly. you're such a sore loser.
[QUOTE=Foxx,Jan 31 2006, 10:51 AM]

Notice that the peripheral column section has rotated at least +/- 90 degrees as it flew through the air. A purely downward collapse force would favor end-over-end rotation in a horizontal plane. Studying this photo, however, suggests a rotation along a vertical plain. Like the motion of a violently opened door suddenly freed at the last moment from its' hinges. It hit the bank building on a leading edge. Maybe it rotated 270 degrees or even the next next multiple. How else could it have made a vertical entry gash. Vertical rotation would require a purely outward force. You open a door by pushing out, not down.
If the core, eventually, transfered its' entire burden to the peripheral columns, why do they show no signs of deformity? If there was enough down-ward force to throw them 250', you would think that some bending would have occurred.

Notice that the peripheral column section has rotated at least +/- 90 degrees as it flew through the air. A purely downward collapse force would favor end-over-end rotation in a horizontal plane. Studying this photo, however, suggests a rotation along a vertical plain. Like the motion of a violently opened door suddenly freed at the last moment from its' hinges. It hit the bank building on a leading edge. Maybe it rotated 270 degrees or even the next next multiple. How else could it have made a vertical entry gash. Vertical rotation would require a purely outward force. You open a door by pushing out, not down.
If the core, eventually, transfered its' entire burden to the peripheral columns, why do they show no signs of deformity? If there was enough down-ward force to throw them 250', you would think that some bending would have occurred.
QUOTE (newton+Feb 1 2006, 02:21 AM)
QUOTE (Schneibster+Jan 31 2006, 08:09 AM)
If that turns out to be true, this could turn really, really ugly, depending on how Canada looks at it. As far as the civil law issues, the tort is clear: my property was taken without my permission, and used without my permission, and not only do I have no assurance that it will not again be so used, and no assurance that other copies of it don't exist in the possession of the individual involved, but this is property that is clearly of use to the individual, so much so that they engaged in stealing it.
canada looks at it like you would be wasting our time and money on VERY frivolous lawsuits.
the copywrite law does not apply to personal use. foxx would have to make money off of his 'possession' of your ' property' for you to effectively 'do' anything.
whenever someone views your precious image in a browser, it is downloaded into their cache. they are ALL STEALING FROM YOU!
'this' could get really ugly. you're such a sore loser.
Schneibster screwed him/herself on this one. If we're lucky, (s)he's already mailed something to Foxx's address (as posted on his web site), after which time Foxx might oblige us with Schneib's return address. When the American people finally wake up and start cleaning house, they can begin by taking out the human trash at Schneib's place.
Arthur: got any frivolous lawsuits you'd like to file against anyone here?

Notice that the peripheral column section has rotated +/- 90 degrees. A vertical collapse force would favor end-over-end rotation in a horizontal plane. Studying this photo, however, suggests a rotation along a vertical plain. How else could it have made a vertical entry gash. Vertical rotation would require a purely outward force. If the core, eventually, transfered its' entire burden to the peripheral columns, why do they show no signs of deformity? If there was enough down-ward force to throw them 250', you would think that some bending would have occurred.
Silly goose, you're obviously not considering the SIDEWAYS 'Amazing Bellows Effect' !!
If the 'subterranean' Amazing Bellows could fan the smoldering WTC garbage+ sufficiently to keep metal glowingly hot for weeks after the collapse, how hard is it for their horizontal 'cousins' to blow out a few teensy weensy exterior column pieces sideways?
In fact, now that I think of it, maybe THAT'S what happened to the spire! It got blown off sideways by the HAB (Horizontal Amazing Bellows).
I thing the US Military should look into HAB. Think of the weapons potential, if they can only figure out how to harness this mysterious, natural phenomenon which was under our noses all this time!
BTW, where'd you find this picture? Kidding aside, it's excellent photographic evidence pointing to what really happened.
What possible relevance is the ratio of the distance traveled to the diameter of the building?
More relevant is the distance traveled vs. the height from which the columns originate.
One look at the perimeter columns that do remain upright at the bottom of the buildings shows that they are all leaning severely outward from the tower. This demonstrates that there was outward force on them. This is consistent with a pancaking of the floors as the large mass of falling debris would impart an outward force on the perimeter, just as it is when someone bumps into you on the sidewalk and you get pushed to the side. The bottom columns only remain standing because they are anchored to the foundation which was not destroyed. Columns from farther up would have traveled outward. I believe this is all pretty much self evident.
Now Foxx would have us believe that the only mechanism that could impart enough of a horizontal component to the debris' velocity to have a 100 ton section of the perimeter travel 600 feet is explosives.
We know that the collapse itself will impart a horizontal velocity to the perimeter sections. I do not find it beyond belief that some of them would be ejected high enough up and with enough horizontal velocity.
If the section hit the 18th floor of Banker's trust that is approx 215 feet up.
If the section came from the 80th floor of the WTC 2 that is 960 feet up.
The difference is 745 feet.
Gravity would have any ejected debris falling 745 in 6.8 seconds. (Vertical velocity would be 148 mph. )
If it had to travel 600 feet horizontally in 6.8 seconds then it was moving horizontally at 88 feet/sec (60 MPH) when it left the building's side.
About 3.2 million Joules of energy would be required to send this section outwards at that speed(do the calcs if you do not believe me)
According to Bazant the upper section of the north tower would have a mass of 58·10^6 kg. Note that the columns in question would have come from the south tower but the upper section of the south tower was even more massive since it failed lower down than the north tower. Using the mass for the north tower then is being very conservative and the south tower upper section would have had a mass of perhaps twice this.
When it fell 3.7 meters it would have been moving at over 8 meters per second.
The kinetic energy of the falling upper section would have been
(0.5)(58·10^6)(8^2)=1.97·10^9 J or over 600 times the energy required to send that section into Banker's Trust.
canada looks at it like you would be wasting our time and money on VERY frivolous lawsuits.
the copywrite law does not apply to personal use. foxx would have to make money off of his 'possession' of your ' property' for you to effectively 'do' anything.
whenever someone views your precious image in a browser, it is downloaded into their cache. they are ALL STEALING FROM YOU!
'this' could get really ugly. you're such a sore loser.
Schneibster screwed him/herself on this one. If we're lucky, (s)he's already mailed something to Foxx's address (as posted on his web site), after which time Foxx might oblige us with Schneib's return address. When the American people finally wake up and start cleaning house, they can begin by taking out the human trash at Schneib's place.
Arthur: got any frivolous lawsuits you'd like to file against anyone here?
QUOTE (zoktoberfest+Feb 1 2006, 02:50 AM)

Notice that the peripheral column section has rotated +/- 90 degrees. A vertical collapse force would favor end-over-end rotation in a horizontal plane. Studying this photo, however, suggests a rotation along a vertical plain. How else could it have made a vertical entry gash. Vertical rotation would require a purely outward force. If the core, eventually, transfered its' entire burden to the peripheral columns, why do they show no signs of deformity? If there was enough down-ward force to throw them 250', you would think that some bending would have occurred.
Silly goose, you're obviously not considering the SIDEWAYS 'Amazing Bellows Effect' !!
If the 'subterranean' Amazing Bellows could fan the smoldering WTC garbage+ sufficiently to keep metal glowingly hot for weeks after the collapse, how hard is it for their horizontal 'cousins' to blow out a few teensy weensy exterior column pieces sideways?
In fact, now that I think of it, maybe THAT'S what happened to the spire! It got blown off sideways by the HAB (Horizontal Amazing Bellows).
I thing the US Military should look into HAB. Think of the weapons potential, if they can only figure out how to harness this mysterious, natural phenomenon which was under our noses all this time!
BTW, where'd you find this picture? Kidding aside, it's excellent photographic evidence pointing to what really happened.
http://www.photolibrary.fema.gov/photodata/original/4176.jpg

This is the best photo yet to put the Banker's Trust building in perspective.
(The WTC column stuck in the BT building is just above the person in the orange helmet)
But you have to download the hi-res image to appreciate it.
And its clearly NOT 600 feet away from WTC 2.
Arthur

This is the best photo yet to put the Banker's Trust building in perspective.
(The WTC column stuck in the BT building is just above the person in the orange helmet)
But you have to download the hi-res image to appreciate it.
And its clearly NOT 600 feet away from WTC 2.
Arthur
QUOTE
.
Nor does it significantly alter the fact that 100 ton columns of steel were forcefully laterally ejected at least twice the distance of the building diameter from near the beginning of the 'collapse'.
Nor does it significantly alter the fact that 100 ton columns of steel were forcefully laterally ejected at least twice the distance of the building diameter from near the beginning of the 'collapse'.
What possible relevance is the ratio of the distance traveled to the diameter of the building?
More relevant is the distance traveled vs. the height from which the columns originate.
One look at the perimeter columns that do remain upright at the bottom of the buildings shows that they are all leaning severely outward from the tower. This demonstrates that there was outward force on them. This is consistent with a pancaking of the floors as the large mass of falling debris would impart an outward force on the perimeter, just as it is when someone bumps into you on the sidewalk and you get pushed to the side. The bottom columns only remain standing because they are anchored to the foundation which was not destroyed. Columns from farther up would have traveled outward. I believe this is all pretty much self evident.
Now Foxx would have us believe that the only mechanism that could impart enough of a horizontal component to the debris' velocity to have a 100 ton section of the perimeter travel 600 feet is explosives.
We know that the collapse itself will impart a horizontal velocity to the perimeter sections. I do not find it beyond belief that some of them would be ejected high enough up and with enough horizontal velocity.
If the section hit the 18th floor of Banker's trust that is approx 215 feet up.
If the section came from the 80th floor of the WTC 2 that is 960 feet up.
The difference is 745 feet.
Gravity would have any ejected debris falling 745 in 6.8 seconds. (Vertical velocity would be 148 mph. )
If it had to travel 600 feet horizontally in 6.8 seconds then it was moving horizontally at 88 feet/sec (60 MPH) when it left the building's side.
About 3.2 million Joules of energy would be required to send this section outwards at that speed(do the calcs if you do not believe me)
According to Bazant the upper section of the north tower would have a mass of 58·10^6 kg. Note that the columns in question would have come from the south tower but the upper section of the south tower was even more massive since it failed lower down than the north tower. Using the mass for the north tower then is being very conservative and the south tower upper section would have had a mass of perhaps twice this.
When it fell 3.7 meters it would have been moving at over 8 meters per second.
The kinetic energy of the falling upper section would have been
(0.5)(58·10^6)(8^2)=1.97·10^9 J or over 600 times the energy required to send that section into Banker's Trust.
http://www.photolibrary.fema.gov/photodata/original/4145.jpg

As you can see, not compressed, plenty of air passages.
Also chunks not just powder.
Arthur

As you can see, not compressed, plenty of air passages.
Also chunks not just powder.
Arthur
QUOTE (adoucette+Feb 1 2006, 05:57 AM)
http://www.photolibrary.fema.gov/photodata/original/4145.jpg

As you can see, not compressed, plenty of air passages.
Also chunks not just powder.
Arthur
Foxx already told us that the concrete was in chunks. That is what did a lot of damage to the nearby buildings. That was only the chunks that were up to baseball sized though. I believe I posted a picture of larger chunks several pages back.

As you can see, not compressed, plenty of air passages.
Also chunks not just powder.
Arthur
Foxx already told us that the concrete was in chunks. That is what did a lot of damage to the nearby buildings. That was only the chunks that were up to baseball sized though. I believe I posted a picture of larger chunks several pages back.
QUOTE (YesItDid+)
Gravity would have any ejected debris falling 745 in 6.8 seconds. (Vertical velocity would be 148 mph. )
If it had to travel 600 feet horizontally in 6.8 seconds then it was moving horizontally at 88 feet/sec (60 MPH) when it left the building's side.
But the building was ~240 ft away, putting the horizontal velocity at < 40 ft/sec or < 30 mph
Arthur
If it had to travel 600 feet horizontally in 6.8 seconds then it was moving horizontally at 88 feet/sec (60 MPH) when it left the building's side.
But the building was ~240 ft away, putting the horizontal velocity at < 40 ft/sec or < 30 mph
Arthur
QUOTE (adoucette+Jan 31 2006, 09:24 PM)
http://www.photolibrary.fema.gov/photodata/original/5489.jpg

Arthur,
If you look close, you can see a stream of air bellowing up from beneath the truck so strong it is lifting the truck tires millimeters off the ground. I would hurry and publish your theory.

Arthur,
If you look close, you can see a stream of air bellowing up from beneath the truck so strong it is lifting the truck tires millimeters off the ground. I would hurry and publish your theory.
wow. from all those pictures, it looks like there was an explosion of some sort that caused all that damage. is that eyeraq? all that soot! like a fireball and a shockwave hit.
i don't see all these imaginary air spaces, either. looks like a pretty dense pile, as would be expected if it were produced by such a violent crushing action, as proposed by 'make your own reality' fairy tale weavers.
is this some new huge file size spam campaign, shnibarthur? disuade people from reading the thread by posting 17 meg threads?
now, do the columns, not have to buckle to fail? isn't that the story? cause i see a lot of straight pieces. most of the perimeter columns are straight still. like there were knocked out sideways, as opposed to buckled. see 'em? they're lying all over the place. they're even stuck into the sides of buildings.
where is the core in fema/eviloverlords/....../original/4233.jpg ? two walls of the perimeter proved more hardy than the core? interesting, no?
great pictures, though. even if they take nine yrs. to load. very revealing.
this steel doesn't 'snap back' into place after being deformed. that much is clear. there are ample examples of twisted metal, as would be expected in an explosion, or a 'natural' collapse. so, the theory that a perimeter panel, that is three beams with spandrels, can somehow buckle and then 'spring' to the side is another example of big brother trying to convince us that things can push and pull at the same time.
if beams are buckled as a failure mode, WHY AREN'T THEY ALL BUCKLED?
ditzy disinfoists.
i don't see all these imaginary air spaces, either. looks like a pretty dense pile, as would be expected if it were produced by such a violent crushing action, as proposed by 'make your own reality' fairy tale weavers.
is this some new huge file size spam campaign, shnibarthur? disuade people from reading the thread by posting 17 meg threads?
now, do the columns, not have to buckle to fail? isn't that the story? cause i see a lot of straight pieces. most of the perimeter columns are straight still. like there were knocked out sideways, as opposed to buckled. see 'em? they're lying all over the place. they're even stuck into the sides of buildings.
where is the core in fema/eviloverlords/....../original/4233.jpg ? two walls of the perimeter proved more hardy than the core? interesting, no?
great pictures, though. even if they take nine yrs. to load. very revealing.
this steel doesn't 'snap back' into place after being deformed. that much is clear. there are ample examples of twisted metal, as would be expected in an explosion, or a 'natural' collapse. so, the theory that a perimeter panel, that is three beams with spandrels, can somehow buckle and then 'spring' to the side is another example of big brother trying to convince us that things can push and pull at the same time.
if beams are buckled as a failure mode, WHY AREN'T THEY ALL BUCKLED?
ditzy disinfoists.
Hi metamars.
I posted a link to the FEMA Online Photo Library the last time I was here.
How to access the FEMA photo library...
http://forum.physorg.com/index.php?showtop...indpost&p=60072
The Original photos are very high definition.
Even being on Cable it sometimes takes 5 or 6 seconds to download the photos.
The picture above is from the 'original' full picture posted at the FEMA library.
I downloaded it ... and then used my picture editing software ( I use Corel Photo House, but I'm sure many programs have the same capabilities) to 'crop' the full image and zero-in on the area under investigation.
I saved the 'cropped image' to my files and that is 'where' the above photo originated.
As you can see, the Legendarian Amazing Underground Bellows supporter has taken my advice (for once) and has now found a 'goldmine' of pictures, and is posting pics from there like he has found a new toy...
(Enjoy Arthur... I know you are really looking for the truth and are just pretending to be a shill)... Heh
This is a great view of the Bankers Trust (130 Liberty St) Amazing Flying Columns damage.
No imagination needed here to know that those 100 ton columns fell from the sky on an almost vertical descent, (after having been blown ~ 250 feet horizontally from where they originated).
http://www.photolibrary.fema.gov/photodata/original/5681.jpg
(Thanks Arthur )
Oh BTW... the Bankers Trust was not the ONLY building to suffer damage from Amazing Flying Columns.
WFC 3 (World Financial Center 3) was also a recipient of this anomalous 'mexican jumping beans' behaviour..

The FEMA caption on this picture says...
here's a closer view of THOSE perimeter columns...

If you 'draw back' to get a better perspective and context of these Amazing Flying Columns that impaled WFC 3, it gives an idea of the trajectory upon which these Amazing Flying Columns impacted WFC 3...

The first I heard about this was from 'Bluedyedshark' when he posted a link to ...
http://www.gallerize.com/150%20WINDY%20TOW...09-11%20One.htm
Now... I can't say that i agree with EVERYTHING that Grossman posts... but I found this 'good'...
here's a closer view of THOSE perimeter columns...

If you 'draw back' to get a better perspective and context of these Amazing Flying Columns that impaled WFC 3, it gives an idea of the trajectory upon which these Amazing Flying Columns impacted WFC 3...

The first I heard about this was from 'Bluedyedshark' when he posted a link to ...
http://www.gallerize.com/150%20WINDY%20TOW...09-11%20One.htm
Now... I can't say that i agree with EVERYTHING that Grossman posts... but I found this 'good'...
I see a Great Wind... it is coming from the tower...
It drives a huge steel beam... over 390 feet and sinks it deep into a neighboring building.
The riddle: ON WHAT did the steel beam ride?
Now, Grossman was deceived by FEMA's posting that the 'steel beams' (actually columnar tree sections) weighed 600,000 pounds {300 Tons}.
We know that this is a 'typo' (on the PART of FEMA), and that section still MUST have weighed ~ 30 - 60 Tons.
HOW does one propel a 60 Ton piece of steel approximately 400 feet laterally (according to the gravity-driven collapse scenario ??? so that it falls from the sky at actual free-fall speeds that distance AWAY from its' original position... yet other columnar trees fell closer to the base (as would be expected in a gravity-driven 'landslide collapse' scenario).
I am sure that Osama Bin Boogeyman (being the structural engineering expert that he is) had this all calculated into his 'attack'... and to Prove his magical powers (backed by allah), he decided to transport a few of these Amazing Flying Columns by Ali-Baba magic carpets to their destinations.
Is this beginning to make sense to you now?
Of course. the neo-con supporters trivialize such information with clever psyopts to represent the same damage from another perspective...

Cheers
Foxx
Of course. the neo-con supporters trivialize such information with clever psyopts to represent the same damage from another perspective...

Cheers
Foxx
A classic moment on the old thread!
You gotta' admit, Foxx....
It does kind of put things in perspective.
Better hope Jones-in doesn't have a copyright on that photoshop job of his you stole.
Of course. the neo-con supporters trivialize such information with clever psyopts to represent the same damage from another perspective...

Cheers
Foxx
A classic moment on the old thread!
You gotta' admit, Foxx....
It does kind of put things in perspective.
Better hope Jones-in doesn't have a copyright on that photoshop job of his you stole.
Well, Quack...
I'll have to agree with you on this one.
Sheesh... I expect lawsuits coming out my ears shortly.





I didn't say the administration did it.
SHOW ME THE PROOF
Show me proof the administration did it...
I didn't say the administration did it.
The 9/11 rogue network subsumed some of the asteroids of the 1990s, that is to say, the privatized intelligence enterprises operating under Reagan’s executive order 12333. The September criminals were financiers, top-level bureaucrats, flag-rank military officers, top intelligence officials, and technical specialists; the prime focus of their operations was in all probability a series of private sector locations, where confidentiality could be best assured by excluding elements loyal to the constitution. It is therefore probably misleading to think of people like Cheney as the hand-on field commanders of the terrorist forces of 9/11, although Cheney appears to have been complicit in other ways. Bush was expendable enough to undergo an assassination attempt that morning; he owes his continued tenure in office to his speedy capitulation to the demands of the September criminals.
I'd say the weapons grade Anthrax is a good place to start a serious inquiry



Good call.
Can anyone tell help me? I would like to take down the Empire State Building with weapons grade anthrax as I did with the towers. How much do I need?...
What this has to do with the towers only a conspiracy lunatic can connect.
I posted a link to the FEMA Online Photo Library the last time I was here.
How to access the FEMA photo library...
http://forum.physorg.com/index.php?showtop...indpost&p=60072
The Original photos are very high definition.
Even being on Cable it sometimes takes 5 or 6 seconds to download the photos.
The picture above is from the 'original' full picture posted at the FEMA library.
I downloaded it ... and then used my picture editing software ( I use Corel Photo House, but I'm sure many programs have the same capabilities) to 'crop' the full image and zero-in on the area under investigation.
I saved the 'cropped image' to my files and that is 'where' the above photo originated.
As you can see, the Legendarian Amazing Underground Bellows supporter has taken my advice (for once) and has now found a 'goldmine' of pictures, and is posting pics from there like he has found a new toy...
(Enjoy Arthur... I know you are really looking for the truth and are just pretending to be a shill)... Heh
This is a great view of the Bankers Trust (130 Liberty St) Amazing Flying Columns damage.
No imagination needed here to know that those 100 ton columns fell from the sky on an almost vertical descent, (after having been blown ~ 250 feet horizontally from where they originated).
http://www.photolibrary.fema.gov/photodata/original/5681.jpg
(Thanks Arthur )
Oh BTW... the Bankers Trust was not the ONLY building to suffer damage from Amazing Flying Columns.
WFC 3 (World Financial Center 3) was also a recipient of this anomalous 'mexican jumping beans' behaviour..

The FEMA caption on this picture says...
QUOTE
New York, NY, Sept 18, 2001 -- Ohio Task Force workers anchored this 600,000 pound beam from the World Trade Center lodged in a nearby building. Photo by Michael Rieger / FEMA News Photo.
here's a closer view of THOSE perimeter columns...

If you 'draw back' to get a better perspective and context of these Amazing Flying Columns that impaled WFC 3, it gives an idea of the trajectory upon which these Amazing Flying Columns impacted WFC 3...

The first I heard about this was from 'Bluedyedshark' when he posted a link to ...
http://www.gallerize.com/150%20WINDY%20TOW...09-11%20One.htm
Now... I can't say that i agree with EVERYTHING that Grossman posts... but I found this 'good'...
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| New York, NY, Sept 18, 2001 -- Ohio Task Force workers anchored this 600,000 pound beam from the World Trade Center lodged in a nearby building. Photo by Michael Rieger / FEMA News Photo. |
here's a closer view of THOSE perimeter columns...

If you 'draw back' to get a better perspective and context of these Amazing Flying Columns that impaled WFC 3, it gives an idea of the trajectory upon which these Amazing Flying Columns impacted WFC 3...

The first I heard about this was from 'Bluedyedshark' when he posted a link to ...
http://www.gallerize.com/150%20WINDY%20TOW...09-11%20One.htm
Now... I can't say that i agree with EVERYTHING that Grossman posts... but I found this 'good'...
I see a Great Wind... it is coming from the tower...
It drives a huge steel beam... over 390 feet and sinks it deep into a neighboring building.
The riddle: ON WHAT did the steel beam ride?
Now, Grossman was deceived by FEMA's posting that the 'steel beams' (actually columnar tree sections) weighed 600,000 pounds {300 Tons}.
We know that this is a 'typo' (on the PART of FEMA), and that section still MUST have weighed ~ 30 - 60 Tons.
HOW does one propel a 60 Ton piece of steel approximately 400 feet laterally (according to the gravity-driven collapse scenario ??? so that it falls from the sky at actual free-fall speeds that distance AWAY from its' original position... yet other columnar trees fell closer to the base (as would be expected in a gravity-driven 'landslide collapse' scenario).
I am sure that Osama Bin Boogeyman (being the structural engineering expert that he is) had this all calculated into his 'attack'... and to Prove his magical powers (backed by allah), he decided to transport a few of these Amazing Flying Columns by Ali-Baba magic carpets to their destinations.
Is this beginning to make sense to you now?
Of course. the neo-con supporters trivialize such information with clever psyopts to represent the same damage from another perspective...

Cheers
Foxx
QUOTE (newton+Feb 1 2006, 07:25 AM)
wow. from all those pictures, it looks like there was an explosion of some sort that caused all that damage. is that eyeraq? all that soot! like a fireball and a shockwave hit.
i don't see all these imaginary air spaces, either. looks like a pretty dense pile, as would be expected if it were produced by such a violent crushing action, as proposed by 'make your own reality' fairy tale weavers.
is this some new huge file size spam campaign, shnibarthur? disuade people from reading the thread by posting 17 meg threads?
now, do the columns, not have to buckle to fail? isn't that the story? cause i see a lot of straight pieces. most of the perimeter columns are straight still. like there were knocked out sideways, as opposed to buckled. see 'em? they're lying all over the place. they're even stuck into the sides of buildings.
where is the core in fema/eviloverlords/....../original/4233.jpg ? two walls of the perimeter proved more hardy than the core? interesting, no?
great pictures, though. even if they take nine yrs. to load. very revealing.
this steel doesn't 'snap back' into place after being deformed. that much is clear. there are ample examples of twisted metal, as would be expected in an explosion, or a 'natural' collapse. so, the theory that a perimeter panel, that is three beams with spandrels, can somehow buckle and then 'spring' to the side is another example of big brother trying to convince us that things can push and pull at the same time.
if beams are buckled as a failure mode, WHY AREN'T THEY ALL BUCKLED?
ditzy disinfoists.
Nice call, newton...
It seems obvious that The arthur-obfuscator can't 'win' a debate by intelligent discussion... so what does he do???...
He posts numerous mega-files in succession in attempts to spam the thread and shut it down.
Arthur, you low-life scumbag... remove the mega-pics and replace with reasonably sized pics... or delete them... OR... you expose yourself as an obvious spammer.
i don't see all these imaginary air spaces, either. looks like a pretty dense pile, as would be expected if it were produced by such a violent crushing action, as proposed by 'make your own reality' fairy tale weavers.
is this some new huge file size spam campaign, shnibarthur? disuade people from reading the thread by posting 17 meg threads?
now, do the columns, not have to buckle to fail? isn't that the story? cause i see a lot of straight pieces. most of the perimeter columns are straight still. like there were knocked out sideways, as opposed to buckled. see 'em? they're lying all over the place. they're even stuck into the sides of buildings.
where is the core in fema/eviloverlords/....../original/4233.jpg ? two walls of the perimeter proved more hardy than the core? interesting, no?
great pictures, though. even if they take nine yrs. to load. very revealing.
this steel doesn't 'snap back' into place after being deformed. that much is clear. there are ample examples of twisted metal, as would be expected in an explosion, or a 'natural' collapse. so, the theory that a perimeter panel, that is three beams with spandrels, can somehow buckle and then 'spring' to the side is another example of big brother trying to convince us that things can push and pull at the same time.
if beams are buckled as a failure mode, WHY AREN'T THEY ALL BUCKLED?
ditzy disinfoists.
Nice call, newton...
It seems obvious that The arthur-obfuscator can't 'win' a debate by intelligent discussion... so what does he do???...
He posts numerous mega-files in succession in attempts to spam the thread and shut it down.
Arthur, you low-life scumbag... remove the mega-pics and replace with reasonably sized pics... or delete them... OR... you expose yourself as an obvious spammer.
QUOTE (Foxx+Feb 1 2006, 07:59 AM)
Of course. the neo-con supporters trivialize such information with clever psyopts to represent the same damage from another perspective...

Cheers
Foxx
A classic moment on the old thread!
You gotta' admit, Foxx....
It does kind of put things in perspective.
Better hope Jones-in doesn't have a copyright on that photoshop job of his you stole.
Looking at these photos, it seems pretty incredulous that catalyst for all this damage was "2 terrorist-laden airplanes fueled by a hatred for our values armed with only bolt crops and Korans"
QUOTE (Coastal+Feb 1 2006, 09:22 AM)
QUOTE (Foxx+Feb 1 2006, 07:59 AM)
Of course. the neo-con supporters trivialize such information with clever psyopts to represent the same damage from another perspective...

Cheers
Foxx
A classic moment on the old thread!
You gotta' admit, Foxx....
It does kind of put things in perspective.
Better hope Jones-in doesn't have a copyright on that photoshop job of his you stole.
Well, Quack...
I'll have to agree with you on this one.
Sheesh... I expect lawsuits coming out my ears shortly.





QUOTE (Foxx+Feb 1 2006, 07:59 AM)
We know that this is a 'typo' (on the PART of FEMA), and that section still MUST have weighed ~ 30 - 60 Tons.
HOW does one propel a 60 Ton piece of steel approximately 400 feet laterally (according to the gravity-driven collapse scenario ??? so that it falls from the sky at actual free-fall speeds that distance AWAY from its' original position... yet other columnar trees fell closer to the base (as would be expected in a gravity-driven 'landslide collapse' scenario).
I am sure that Osama Bin Boogeyman (being the structural engineering expert that he is) had this all calculated into his 'attack'... and to Prove his magical powers (backed by allah), he decided to transport a few of these Amazing Flying Columns by Ali-Baba magic carpets to their destinations.
Is this beginning to make sense to you now?
I'm sorry, but I still prefer the HAB (Horizontal Amazing Bellows) hypothesis to the Ali-Baba magic carpets hypothesis.
Is sounds SO much more RATIONAL and SCIENTIFIC.
Plus, it's just plain silly to think that, no matter how magical, Ali-Baba carpets could go flying around, underground, for weeks. Thus, you would still need the underground Amazing Bellows Theory!!
The parsimonious explanation is reject 2 separate hypotheses, when a variation of a SINGLE hypothesis will do the trick. After all, a simple 90 degree rotation will take any vertical Amazing Bellows, and transform it into a horizontal Amazing Bellows.
Besides, we wouldn't want anybody to think we were anit-Arab. That is SO politically INcorrect.
HOW does one propel a 60 Ton piece of steel approximately 400 feet laterally (according to the gravity-driven collapse scenario ??? so that it falls from the sky at actual free-fall speeds that distance AWAY from its' original position... yet other columnar trees fell closer to the base (as would be expected in a gravity-driven 'landslide collapse' scenario).
I am sure that Osama Bin Boogeyman (being the structural engineering expert that he is) had this all calculated into his 'attack'... and to Prove his magical powers (backed by allah), he decided to transport a few of these Amazing Flying Columns by Ali-Baba magic carpets to their destinations.
Is this beginning to make sense to you now?
I'm sorry, but I still prefer the HAB (Horizontal Amazing Bellows) hypothesis to the Ali-Baba magic carpets hypothesis.
Is sounds SO much more RATIONAL and SCIENTIFIC.
Plus, it's just plain silly to think that, no matter how magical, Ali-Baba carpets could go flying around, underground, for weeks. Thus, you would still need the underground Amazing Bellows Theory!!
The parsimonious explanation is reject 2 separate hypotheses, when a variation of a SINGLE hypothesis will do the trick. After all, a simple 90 degree rotation will take any vertical Amazing Bellows, and transform it into a horizontal Amazing Bellows.
Besides, we wouldn't want anybody to think we were anit-Arab. That is SO politically INcorrect.
It's time to stop loony conspiracy theories about Sept 11
Astute observers of history are aware that for every notable event there will usually be at least one ,often several wild conspiracy theories which spring up around it. "The CIA killed Hendrix" " The Pope had John Lennon murdered ", "Hitler was half Werewolf", "Space aliens replaced Nixon with a clone" etc,etc. The bigger the event, the more ridiculous and more numerous are the fanciful rantings which circulate in relation to it.
So its hardly surprising that the events of Sept 11 2001 have spawned their fair share of these ludicrous fairy tales. And as always, there is - sadly - a small but gullible percentage of the population eager to lap up these tall tales, regardless of facts or rational analysis.
One of the wilder stories circulating about Sept 11, and one that has attracted something of a cult following amongst conspiracy buffs is that it was carried out by 19 fanatical Arab hijackers, masterminded by an evil genius named Osama bin Laden, with no apparent motivation other than that they "hate our freedoms."
Never a group of people to be bothered by facts, the perpetrators of this cartoon fantasy have constructed an elaborately woven web of delusions and unsubstantiated hearsay in order to promote this garbage across the internet and the media to the extent that a number of otherwise rational people have actually fallen under its spell.
Normally I don't even bother debunking this kind of junk, but the effect that this paranoid myth is beginning to have requires a little rational analysis, in order to consign it to the same rubbish bin as all such silly conspiracy theories.
These crackpots even contend that the extremist Bush regime was caught unawares by the attacks, had no hand in organizing them, and actually would have stopped them if it had been able. Blindly ignoring the stand down of the US air-force, the insider trading on airline stocks - linked to the CIA, the complicit behavior of Bush on the morning of the attacks, the controlled demolition of the WTC, the firing of a missile into the Pentagon and a host of other documented proofs that the Bush regime was behind the attacks, the conspiracy theorists stick doggedly to a silly story about 19 Arab hijackers somehow managing to commandeer 4 planes simultaneously and fly them around US airspace for nearly 2 hours ,crashing them into important buildings, without the US intelligence services having any idea that it was coming, and without the Air Force knowing what to do. (...)
Rest of article at Portland IMC
Astute observers of history are aware that for every notable event there will usually be at least one ,often several wild conspiracy theories which spring up around it. "The CIA killed Hendrix" " The Pope had John Lennon murdered ", "Hitler was half Werewolf", "Space aliens replaced Nixon with a clone" etc,etc. The bigger the event, the more ridiculous and more numerous are the fanciful rantings which circulate in relation to it.
So its hardly surprising that the events of Sept 11 2001 have spawned their fair share of these ludicrous fairy tales. And as always, there is - sadly - a small but gullible percentage of the population eager to lap up these tall tales, regardless of facts or rational analysis.
One of the wilder stories circulating about Sept 11, and one that has attracted something of a cult following amongst conspiracy buffs is that it was carried out by 19 fanatical Arab hijackers, masterminded by an evil genius named Osama bin Laden, with no apparent motivation other than that they "hate our freedoms."
Never a group of people to be bothered by facts, the perpetrators of this cartoon fantasy have constructed an elaborately woven web of delusions and unsubstantiated hearsay in order to promote this garbage across the internet and the media to the extent that a number of otherwise rational people have actually fallen under its spell.
Normally I don't even bother debunking this kind of junk, but the effect that this paranoid myth is beginning to have requires a little rational analysis, in order to consign it to the same rubbish bin as all such silly conspiracy theories.
These crackpots even contend that the extremist Bush regime was caught unawares by the attacks, had no hand in organizing them, and actually would have stopped them if it had been able. Blindly ignoring the stand down of the US air-force, the insider trading on airline stocks - linked to the CIA, the complicit behavior of Bush on the morning of the attacks, the controlled demolition of the WTC, the firing of a missile into the Pentagon and a host of other documented proofs that the Bush regime was behind the attacks, the conspiracy theorists stick doggedly to a silly story about 19 Arab hijackers somehow managing to commandeer 4 planes simultaneously and fly them around US airspace for nearly 2 hours ,crashing them into important buildings, without the US intelligence services having any idea that it was coming, and without the Air Force knowing what to do. (...)
Rest of article at Portland IMC
QUOTE (JamesX+Feb 1 2006, 12:26 AM)
QUOTE (frater plecticus+Jan 31 2006, 11:35 PM)
QUOTE
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE | ||
Show me proof the administration did it... |
I didn't say the administration did it.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| because that murder is Bin Laden |
SHOW ME THE PROOF
Show me proof the administration did it...
I didn't say the administration did it.
The 9/11 rogue network subsumed some of the asteroids of the 1990s, that is to say, the privatized intelligence enterprises operating under Reagan’s executive order 12333. The September criminals were financiers, top-level bureaucrats, flag-rank military officers, top intelligence officials, and technical specialists; the prime focus of their operations was in all probability a series of private sector locations, where confidentiality could be best assured by excluding elements loyal to the constitution. It is therefore probably misleading to think of people like Cheney as the hand-on field commanders of the terrorist forces of 9/11, although Cheney appears to have been complicit in other ways. Bush was expendable enough to undergo an assassination attempt that morning; he owes his continued tenure in office to his speedy capitulation to the demands of the September criminals.
I'd say the weapons grade Anthrax is a good place to start a serious inquiry


Good call.
Can anyone tell help me? I would like to take down the Empire State Building with weapons grade anthrax as I did with the towers. How much do I need?...
What this has to do with the towers only a conspiracy lunatic can connect.
check out the date written on the top of the letters. whether you think it's connected or not, i really don't care what you think.
QUOTE (brian+Feb 1 2006, 01:20 AM)
When the US goverment is riddled with Zionists, the hand of Mossad all over September 11, Israel a main beneficiary, Odigo etc, it does not require a Sherlock Holmes type of deduction to conclude where investigations might begin.
"Evidence linking these Israelis to 9/11 is classified. I cannot tell you about evidence that has been gathered. It's classified information."
-- US official quoted in Carl Cameron's Fox News report on the Israeli spy ring and its connections to 9-11.
Well Sherlock, if you don't have any evidence, what do you base your conclusion on? Because nothing I've seen puts anyone else at the towers but the arab passengers and Bin Laden who admited to it.
"Evidence linking these Israelis to 9/11 is classified. I cannot tell you about evidence that has been gathered. It's classified information."
-- US official quoted in Carl Cameron's Fox News report on the Israeli spy ring and its connections to 9-11.
Well Sherlock, if you don't have any evidence, what do you base your conclusion on? Because nothing I've seen puts anyone else at the towers but the arab passengers and Bin Laden who admited to it.
QUOTE (Head Shill+Feb 1 2006, 01:24 AM)
Schneibster deductions for month of January:
$2500 cleaning up forum after psychotic episode.
$1000 posting picture dangerous to official fairy tail.
$1,000,000 giving shill’s a bad name.
$5000 monthly internet lawyer fee (suing people for laughing at him).
$1,000,000 reward for exposing Rove's "poison well conspiracy brigade" sock puppet's to physorg
$2500 cleaning up forum after psychotic episode.
$1000 posting picture dangerous to official fairy tail.
$1,000,000 giving shill’s a bad name.
$5000 monthly internet lawyer fee (suing people for laughing at him).
$1,000,000 reward for exposing Rove's "poison well conspiracy brigade" sock puppet's to physorg
QUOTE (Mel+Feb 1 2006, 02:11 AM)
QUOTE (adoucette+Feb 1 2006, 01:44 AM)
QUOTE (brian+Jan 31 2006, 09:20 PM)
the US goverment is riddled with Zionists
Well now we know what YOUR agenda is Brian.
Hmmm?
What do you know, same as OBL's
Coincidence?
I think not.
Arthur
Arthur's gay.
Pass it on.
Yet more evidence Mel is a paid Rove shill. Progressives/liberals don't dehumanize gays. Next I expect he'll call someone a ni**ger.
If these people aren't working for Rove they sure act like it.
What on earth are you on about ?

Now... I can't say that i agree with EVERYTHING that Grossman posts... but I found this 'good'...
Now, Grossman was deceived by FEMA's posting that the 'steel beams' (actually columnar tree sections) weighed 600,000 pounds {300 Tons}.
We know that this is a 'typo' (on the PART of FEMA), and that section still MUST have weighed ~ 30 - 60 Tons.
Foxx,
While the distance quoted is reasonable, I'm curious about the
MUST have weighed ~ 30 to 60 tons.
We know the steel got thinner as it went up to keep the building the same dimensions, and of course this would be one of the upper perimeter pieces.
It seems to me that 30 tons (60,000 lbs) seems a lot for that relatively small hunk of steel (I'm just imagining my 4x4 truck compared to this beam, 30 tons would be equal to ~ 15 X the empty weight of my truck, and that just don't seem right, considering my truck has steel beam construction, not to mention, V8 engine, transmission, axles, 16" wheels etc).
I tried to find some independent confirmation on it and have had no luck so far.
I did find that the steel should weigh ~16,000 lbs per cubic meter, which means to weigh 30 tons it should require about 4 cubic meters of steel. When I have time to track down the dimensions of one of those pieces I'll see how much steel they really took.
In any case, while searching I did find this.
http://www.efunda.com/formulae/solid_mecha...eams/theory.cfm
A engineering site with a lot of useful info
and this, which others may find more useful than I.
http://www.structural-engineering.fsnet.co.uk/steel.htm
Its an engineering spreadsheet for calculating steel beams/loading etc.
Looks pretty neat though.
Arthur
Well now we know what YOUR agenda is Brian.
Hmmm?
What do you know, same as OBL's
Coincidence?
I think not.
Arthur
Arthur's gay.
Pass it on.
Yet more evidence Mel is a paid Rove shill. Progressives/liberals don't dehumanize gays. Next I expect he'll call someone a ni**ger.
If these people aren't working for Rove they sure act like it.
QUOTE
Yet more evidence Mel is a paid Rove shill. Progressives/liberals don't dehumanize gays. Next I expect he'll call someone a ni**ger.
If these people aren't working for Rove they sure act like it.
If these people aren't working for Rove they sure act like it.
What on earth are you on about ?
QUOTE (Foxx+Feb 1 2006, 03:59 AM)

Now... I can't say that i agree with EVERYTHING that Grossman posts... but I found this 'good'...
QUOTE
I see a Great Wind... it is coming from the tower...
It drives a huge steel beam... over 390 feet and sinks it deep into a neighboring building.
The riddle: ON WHAT did the steel beam ride?
It drives a huge steel beam... over 390 feet and sinks it deep into a neighboring building.
The riddle: ON WHAT did the steel beam ride?
Now, Grossman was deceived by FEMA's posting that the 'steel beams' (actually columnar tree sections) weighed 600,000 pounds {300 Tons}.
We know that this is a 'typo' (on the PART of FEMA), and that section still MUST have weighed ~ 30 - 60 Tons.
Foxx,
While the distance quoted is reasonable, I'm curious about the
MUST have weighed ~ 30 to 60 tons.
We know the steel got thinner as it went up to keep the building the same dimensions, and of course this would be one of the upper perimeter pieces.
It seems to me that 30 tons (60,000 lbs) seems a lot for that relatively small hunk of steel (I'm just imagining my 4x4 truck compared to this beam, 30 tons would be equal to ~ 15 X the empty weight of my truck, and that just don't seem right, considering my truck has steel beam construction, not to mention, V8 engine, transmission, axles, 16" wheels etc).
I tried to find some independent confirmation on it and have had no luck so far.
I did find that the steel should weigh ~16,000 lbs per cubic meter, which means to weigh 30 tons it should require about 4 cubic meters of steel. When I have time to track down the dimensions of one of those pieces I'll see how much steel they really took.
In any case, while searching I did find this.
http://www.efunda.com/formulae/solid_mecha...eams/theory.cfm
A engineering site with a lot of useful info
and this, which others may find more useful than I.
http://www.structural-engineering.fsnet.co.uk/steel.htm
Its an engineering spreadsheet for calculating steel beams/loading etc.
Looks pretty neat though.
Arthur
QUOTE (zoktoberfest+Feb 1 2006, 02:50 AM)
[QUOTE=Foxx,Jan 31 2006, 10:51 AM]

Notice that the peripheral column section has rotated at least +/- 90 degrees as it flew through the air. A purely downward collapse force would favor end-over-end rotation in a horizontal plane. Studying this photo, however, suggests a rotation along a vertical plain. Like the motion of a violently opened door suddenly freed at the last moment from its' hinges. It hit the bank building on a leading edge. Maybe it rotated 270 degrees or even the next next multiple. How else could it have made a vertical entry gash. Vertical rotation would require a purely outward force. You open a door by pushing out, not down.
If the core, eventually, transfered its' entire burden to the peripheral columns, why do they show no signs of deformity? If there was enough down-ward force to throw them 250', you would think that some bending would have occurred.
Tell me something genius, if it went horizontally with tremendous force as in "Explosion" (Something not seen in any video. They all show the steel falling away from the building with the compression of air. Debris under each collapsed floor was being squeezed out the sides. The effect pushed the debris from the collapsed floor before it further away.) how did that steel rip a 10 story whole above it?

If it was traveling horizontally as you suggest it should have only made a hole and landed in the building. Not hang out side of it like it scrapped the wall on the way down...
Your whole post is BS.

Notice that the peripheral column section has rotated at least +/- 90 degrees as it flew through the air. A purely downward collapse force would favor end-over-end rotation in a horizontal plane. Studying this photo, however, suggests a rotation along a vertical plain. Like the motion of a violently opened door suddenly freed at the last moment from its' hinges. It hit the bank building on a leading edge. Maybe it rotated 270 degrees or even the next next multiple. How else could it have made a vertical entry gash. Vertical rotation would require a purely outward force. You open a door by pushing out, not down.
If the core, eventually, transfered its' entire burden to the peripheral columns, why do they show no signs of deformity? If there was enough down-ward force to throw them 250', you would think that some bending would have occurred.
Tell me something genius, if it went horizontally with tremendous force as in "Explosion" (Something not seen in any video. They all show the steel falling away from the building with the compression of air. Debris under each collapsed floor was being squeezed out the sides. The effect pushed the debris from the collapsed floor before it further away.) how did that steel rip a 10 story whole above it?

If it was traveling horizontally as you suggest it should have only made a hole and landed in the building. Not hang out side of it like it scrapped the wall on the way down...
Your whole post is BS.
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