To add comments or start new threads please go to the full version of: Are We Better Than Mice?
PhysForum Science, Physics and Technology Discussion Forums > News discussions > General Science News

"THEY"
http://www.physorg.com/news121098401.html

The thread was for some unknown reason deleted, but I very recently made a comment in a thread likening the Forum mafia to a drug. Then I made the tease "just say NO to the Forum Mafia". It seems I was right! And the forum mafia aren't the only members here guilty of instigating aggression.... dry.gif
Gehn
QUOTE ("THEY"+Feb 1 2008, 08:09 PM)
http://www.physorg.com/news121098401.html

The thread was for some unknown reason deleted, but I very recently made a comment in a thread likening the Forum mafia to a drug. Then I made the tease "just say NO to the Forum Mafia". It seems I was right! And the forum mafia aren't the only members here guilty of instigating aggression.... dry.gif

What about the cranks? You can't deny that they are also agressive.

- Gehn biggrin.gif
"THEY"
QUOTE ("THEY"+Feb 1 2008, 12:09 PM)
And the forum mafia aren't the only members here guilty of instigating aggression.... dry.gif

Are you trying to instigate aggression?!!! mad.gif

Totally kidding laugh.gif

biggrin.gif
Gehn
QUOTE ("THEY"+Feb 1 2008, 08:52 PM)
Are you trying to instigate aggression?!!! 


You keep that atittude and we might just have to knock you off ph34r.gif .

User posted image: User posted image

Only kidding!

wink.gif Yeah, only kidding..... dry.gif


laugh.gif Only kidding!

- Gehn biggrin.gif
Sapo
QUOTE ("THEY"+Feb 1 2008, 03:09 PM)
http://www.physorg.com/news121098401.html

The thread was for some unknown reason deleted, but I very recently made a comment in a thread likening the Forum mafia to a drug. Then I made the tease "just say NO to the Forum Mafia". It seems I was right! And the forum mafia aren't the only members here guilty of instigating aggression.... dry.gif

I read that article, too. I thought it was an interesting rehash of stuff I learned, or read about, long ago. I can't imagine why it was jerked.

We come again to the Petri dish. cool.gif

Have you watched people on TV recently, and compared the body language to broadcasts from as little as five years ago? Everyone leans forward, (but not too much!), everyone steeples their fingers to evoke the 'fatherly and sincere' figure. Everybody wants to beat the polygraph...

I'm jaded.

Sapo
tikay
I am not sure if I am better than a mouse but if we sat together and held a conversation....some smart mouse and I....I would probably develop some judgement based on how they are with their family, who they keep round as friends, and how much they adhere to the Ethic of Reciprocity. wink.gif

(((Still I hate being judgmental))) dry.gif
tikay
QUOTE (Sapo+Feb 1 2008, 04:05 PM)


Have you watched people on TV recently, and compared the body language to broadcasts from as little as five years ago? Everyone leans forward, (but not too much!), everyone steeples their fingers to evoke the 'fatherly and sincere' figure. Everybody wants to beat the polygraph...

I'm jaded.

Sapo

Im with you Sapo....once the code is broken and becomes common knowledge...how easy to be fake!
Sapo
And you are a complicated mousie, too! That's a good thing, but you know that, too!

Nam myoho renge kyo
tikay
Me complicated!!!! laugh.gif You can't be serious....I am like a cat...I like to sleep a LOT, eat a little, prowl, pounce and play. Pat me and I Puuurrrrrrrr like crazy and roll into your lap! tongue.gif

I would never go near a creature such as this if it were near in size/proportion to me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CL2hetqpfg

You dont have to watch it all....the mouse dies!
Sapo
Whitesnake - Kitten's Got Claws

sad.gif
soundhertz
I don't know, I thought mice secretly ruled our planet cool.gif

But at any rate - Is consciousness merely a bunch of chemicals? Then we are just like mice, excepting that we are aware of more choices, and perhaps not so enslaved to the few that determine survival, noting that ease of survival for our species possibly has allowed for more chemically derived choices. Is there a relation between ease of survival and less aggression, because aggression isn't as necessary, and so for the most part it becomes a choice rather than a necessity? If this ease of survival maintains for many many generations, does it genetically encode resulting in greater 'domestication' - no matter what the species? (ie, you can buy an allegedly totally tame purebred wolf pup). On the other hand, a dog given all the food and water it wants, but treated aggressively all the time, will be aggressive, even if it was kindly nurtured as a pup, because whereas one aspect of survival is no longer an issue, another aspect - in this case a perceived threat to body or self, is constantly being excited. And after enough times, even if the dog realizes it is not necessarily in any real danger - say a person who comes to tease it every day but never really hurts it - it still will act aggressive, and especially to the teaser. And as we have seen, humans with homes and food and water and loved ones do violently deprive their neighbors and do make and drop bombs...

But then if consciousness is more than merely a bunch of chemicals (uh oh unsure.gif ) all bets are off as far as our species is concerned. It at least appears a stretch, to me, that our forum is composed of a bunch of chemicals that argue/support/be in apathy, etc. But then, maybe our inner workings are not intuitive at all, even though we like to think we are. Are chemicals in synergy intuitive? Is that us - chemicals in synergy?
tikay
User posted image: User posted image

Tried to hear the song on youtube...ironically, much too quiet!
Sapo
QUOTE (soundhertz+Feb 1 2008, 06:43 PM)
I don't know, I thought mice secretly ruled our planet cool.gif

But at any rate - Is consciousness merely a bunch of chemicals? Then we are just like mice, excepting that we are aware of more choices, and perhaps not so enslaved to the few that determine survival, noting that ease of survival for our species possibly has allowed for more chemically derived choices. Is there a relation between ease of survival and less aggression, because aggression isn't as necessary, and so for the most part it becomes a choice rather than a necessity? If this ease of survival maintains for many many generations, does it genetically encode resulting in greater 'domestication' - no matter what the species? (ie, you can buy an allegedly totally tame purebred wolf pup). On the other hand, a dog given all the food and water it wants, but treated aggressively all the time, will be aggressive, even if it was kindly nurtured as a pup, because whereas one aspect of survival is no longer an issue, another aspect - in this case a perceived threat to body or self, is constantly being excited. And after enough times, even if the dog realizes it is not necessarily in any real danger - say a person who comes to tease it every day but never really hurts it - it still will act aggressive, and especially to the teaser. And as we have seen, humans with homes and food and water and loved ones do violently deprive their neighbors and do make and drop bombs...

But then if consciousness is more than merely a bunch of chemicals (uh oh unsure.gif ) all bets are off as far as our species is concerned. It at least appears a stretch, to me, that our forum is composed of a bunch of chemicals that argue/support/be in apathy, etc. But then, maybe our inner workings are not intuitive at all, even though we like to think we are. Are chemicals in synergy intuitive? Is that us - chemicals in synergy?

cool.gif Man, if I were the moderator here, I'd move this topic to 'Philosophy'. We should start with Robert Burns, I think. Just to stay on-topic, eh? laugh.gif
soundhertz
Yeah I'm really bad at that. Shoulda had 50 warnings by now, I admit it. sad.gif
"THEY"
QUOTE (soundhertz+Feb 1 2008, 03:54 PM)
Yeah I'm really bad at that. Shoulda had 50 warnings by now, I admit it. sad.gif

Thats okay, he can post his philosophy on my thread. Soundhertz knows me well!

no warnings for you! Brownies instead! (I haven't spammed you in a while)
Sapo
QUOTE (soundhertz+Feb 1 2008, 06:54 PM)
Yeah I'm really bad at that. Shoulda had 50 warnings by now, I admit it. sad.gif

soundhertz: Your score is so pristine! I was almost tempted... tongue.gif

THEY: What kind of brownies? Pecan or Macadamia? Oh, lord, I'm hungry now... rolleyes.gif
tikay
QUOTE (soundhertz+Feb 1 2008, 04:43 PM)
I don't know, I thought mice secretly ruled our planet cool.gif

But at any rate - Is consciousness merely a bunch of chemicals?  Then we are just like mice, excepting that we are aware of more choices, and perhaps not so enslaved to the few that determine survival, noting that ease of survival for our species possibly has allowed for more chemically derived choices.  Is there a relation between ease of survival and less aggression, because aggression isn't as necessary, and so for the most part it becomes a choice rather than a necessity?  If this ease of survival maintains for many many generations, does it genetically encode resulting in greater 'domestication' - no matter what the species?  (ie, you can buy an allegedly totally tame purebred wolf pup).  On the other hand, a dog given all the food and water it wants, but treated aggressively all the time, will be aggressive, even if it was kindly nurtured as a pup, because whereas one aspect of survival is no longer an issue, another aspect - in this case a perceived threat to body or self, is constantly being excited.  And after enough times, even if the dog realizes it is not necessarily in any real danger - say a person who comes to tease it every day but never really hurts it - it still will act aggressive, and especially to the teaser.  And as we have seen, humans with homes and food and water and loved ones do violently deprive their neighbors and do make and drop bombs...

But then if consciousness is more than merely a bunch of chemicals (uh oh unsure.gif ) all bets are off as far as our species is concerned.  It at least appears a stretch, to me, that our forum is composed of a bunch of chemicals that argue/support/be in apathy, etc.  But then, maybe our inner workings are not intuitive at all, even though we like to think we are.  Are chemicals in synergy intuitive?  Is that us - chemicals in synergy?

I am sure we are (consciousness is) more than mere chemicals. I think it is combined with photons and waves of ~energy~ emanating from magnetic sources such as the sun.

You asked:
Is there a relation between ease of survival and less aggression, because aggression isn't as necessary, and so for the most part it becomes a choice rather than a necessity?

>>>>I think that certain things are not meant to be synergistic....that antagonism has it's place in life for growth~ aggression can be a motivating factor in a persons life. (there must be some reason that the world holds so much of it).

If a person is treated aggressively....much like the descriptor you have used with the trained dog...well fed and sheltered but treated with hostility....they become conditioned just like that dog will. To expect hostility, and know it is coming again.
(And eventually they may leave physorg...heheh)

What we are learning, is that, that conditioning can affect the person for a lifetime if no therapeutic method is found and prescribed to, for change. If the person finds there is less and less hostility, as they find new avenues for relief, and new persons to be around to replace hostile ones, they eventually come to be satisfied that life is no longer hostile...and with that knowledge... one finds change of expectations (and healthy growth) is the outcome.

A person who is conditioned with much hostility is like the dog who is trained to respond, they too are trained to respond...fight or flight, acquiescence or battling with the hostile trainer most often ensues as a response. Only the outcome will usually differ.

Dropping bombs is more a reflection of mass hysteria in my summation! It is sort of like Christians believing in the end of the world instead of the end of an age....mass hysteria, could actually have them bringing about the conclusion they find is inevitable... End of World Scenario...(mass lunacy) and the scale of which they believe in things may cause such things to come to fruition. In the same way that a massive amount of faith in a new age of enlightened logic and beauty, may cause that to come into being.


Are chemicals in synergy intuitive?

Synergy is the phenomenon in which two or more discrete influences or agents acting together create an effect greater than that predicted by knowing only the separate effects of the individual agents.

Are brain chemicals intuitive. The brain is a cosmic sponge for information...(mine)
and intuiting is one of the capacity of this brain we have. Synergy of those chemicals (acting and reacting) with ones surroundings, create intuition...don't they?
paul h
Isn't there a seperation between the brain and the mind?
tikay
ohmy.gif Good question.
It is being observed or not ?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind


Mind collectively refers to the aspects of intellect and consciousness manifested as combinations of thought, perception, memory, emotion, will and imagination; mind is the stream of consciousness. It includes all of the brain's conscious processes

Brain:
In animals the brain, or encephalon (Greek for "in the head"), is the control center of the central nervous system, responsible for thought. In most animals, the brain is located in the head, protected by the skull and close to the primary sensory apparatus of vision, hearing, equilibrioception, taste and olfaction. While all vertebrates have a brain, most invertebrates have either a centralized brain or collections of individual ganglia. Primitive animals such as sponges do not have a brain at all. Brains can be extremely complex. For example, the human brain contains more than 100 billion neurons, each linked to as many as 10,000 others.
paul h
Any animal with a brain will react to a near death event, but we humans (with a mind) are the only ones to sit around and contemplate our own demise.
"THEY"
My personal belief is that the brain is matter, and the mind is energy. Animal instincts come from the brain, while knowledge comes from the energy. But who on earth can truly answer that! ohmy.gif Can't prove a soul yet. I guess Soundhertz's chemicals would probably be matter aka animal instinct also.

edit Paul? HUH?
QUOTE
Any animal with a brain will react to a near death event
paul h
QUOTE ("THEY"+Feb 1 2008, 08:37 PM)
My personal belief is that the brain is matter, and the mind is energy.  Animal instincts come from the brain, while knowledge comes from the energy.  But who on earth can truly answer that!  ohmy.gif  Can't prove a soul yet.  I guess Soundhertz's chemicals would probably be matter aka animal instinct also.

edit Paul? HUH?

Fight or flight.

Edit to They: sorry I wasn't clear,, I just got back from the marijuana thread.
tikay
THEY...they are asking for your Brownies over in the marijuana thread...LOL
"THEY"
QUOTE (tikay+Feb 1 2008, 04:48 PM)
THEY...they are asking for your Brownies over in the marijuana thread...LOL

Good thing I wasn't drinking any water!


AAAAAAHHHHHHHH hahaha hahaha! laugh.gif

stupid stoners. ph34r.gif

No offense intended, JMHO....
tikay
laugh.gif I think it's high hilarity....it's a thread made by Cecil P Abstract.... called Don't Smoke Marijuana...who is afraid people will turn into hippy dipshits if they smoke too much of it (see my feedback) and people are all condoning the stuff in the thread... laugh.gif
You should go give them a good talking to ma! biggrin.gif
tikay
QUOTE (paul h+Feb 1 2008, 05:42 PM)
sorry I wasn't clear,, I just got back from the marijuana thread.

wink.gif tongue.gif biggrin.gif laugh.gif
tikay
QUOTE (paul h+Feb 1 2008, 05:37 PM)
Any animal with a brain will react to a near death event, but we humans (with a mind) are the only ones to sit around and contemplate our own demise.

I KNOW!!! We sometimes even contemplate how to bring about our own demise...ever see an animal try to kill itself?
(We may have more intellectual/emotional torments, and fears, but still!)
paul h
This is what makes us better than meeces
and thumbs helps allot too.
tikay
Hmmm...yes that is why I am always checking out a guys thumbs when I am single.
paul h
>when I am single.
that sounds like your single way too often.
soundhertz
QUOTE
Isn't there a seperation between the brain and the mind?


Scientifically, we are matter. Philosophically, we are matter and mind. But matter is energy.
We know the process of thought construction, but what exactly is the 'thought' after it has been constructed, since when we peer deep in as far as we can go, there is still 'nobody home'?
Can there be mind without thought? Or thought without mind?
Are they the same? Scientifically, no.
So what's the missing link? Missing links should be measurable.

QUOTE (->
QUOTE
Isn't there a seperation between the brain and the mind?


Scientifically, we are matter. Philosophically, we are matter and mind. But matter is energy.
We know the process of thought construction, but what exactly is the 'thought' after it has been constructed, since when we peer deep in as far as we can go, there is still 'nobody home'?
Can there be mind without thought? Or thought without mind?
Are they the same? Scientifically, no.
So what's the missing link? Missing links should be measurable.

soundhertz: Your score is so pristine! I was almost tempted...  tongue.gif

I just discovered that you can't give yourself a neg! laugh.gif
.......uh oh... rolleyes.gif
paul h
>Can there be mind without thought?
Just read some of the posts here and well,,,,, tongue.gif
iseason
QUOTE (soundhertz+Feb 1 2008, 11:43 PM)
I don't know, I thought mice secretly ruled our planet cool.gif

But at any rate - Is consciousness merely a bunch of chemicals? Then we are just like mice, excepting that we are aware of more choices, and perhaps not so enslaved to the few that determine survival, noting that ease of survival for our species possibly has allowed for more chemically derived choices. Is there a relation between ease of survival and less aggression, because aggression isn't as necessary, and so for the most part it becomes a choice rather than a necessity? If this ease of survival maintains for many many generations, does it genetically encode resulting in greater 'domestication' - no matter what the species? (ie, you can buy an allegedly totally tame purebred wolf pup). On the other hand, a dog given all the food and water it wants, but treated aggressively all the time, will be aggressive, even if it was kindly nurtured as a pup, because whereas one aspect of survival is no longer an issue, another aspect - in this case a perceived threat to body or self, is constantly being excited. And after enough times, even if the dog realizes it is not necessarily in any real danger - say a person who comes to tease it every day but never really hurts it - it still will act aggressive, and especially to the teaser. And as we have seen, humans with homes and food and water and loved ones do violently deprive their neighbors and do make and drop bombs...

But then if consciousness is more than merely a bunch of chemicals (uh oh unsure.gif ) all bets are off as far as our species is concerned. It at least appears a stretch, to me, that our forum is composed of a bunch of chemicals that argue/support/be in apathy, etc. But then, maybe our inner workings are not intuitive at all, even though we like to think we are. Are chemicals in synergy intuitive? Is that us - chemicals in synergy?

Survival as a singular Dog/Animal tends to follow this trend.....But as balance shifts more dogs = more aggression...regardless of how outside factors act against them....the aggression will turn inwardly to establish ranks which will be enforced....


So as an individual I hate violence and bully tactics........but within a group, these skills are often need as defense mechanisms just to tread water........because few communities have compliant personalities all the way through....

Your Dog may just find himself an aggressive leader of a pack...with the responsibility to defend the pack at all costs of be killed by the same.

Cheers
Iseason
tikay
QUOTE (paul h+Feb 1 2008, 07:00 PM)
>when I am single.
that sounds like your single way too often.

Hardly ever in the past but now I am maturing a little, and am becoming at home with not having a constant companion...it's fairly liberating to not have (a mans)expectations 'round every bend. ((((Apparently you are like dogs)))) tongue.gif

PhysOrg scientific forums are totally dedicated to science, physics, and technology. Besides topical forums such as nanotechnology, quantum physics, silicon and III-V technology, applied physics, materials, space and others, you can also join our news and publications discussions. We also provide an off-topic forum category. If you need specific help on a scientific problem or have a question related to physics or technology, visit the PhysOrg Forums. Here you’ll find experts from various fields online every day.
To quit out of "lo-fi" mode and return to the regular forums, please click here.