Does solar wind include neutrons or any other kinds of particles other than protons and electrons?
Are there any complete molecules, like for example helium since one would expect a lot of helium to be generated by all that hydrogen-fusion?
What generates the protons and electrons actually? Electrons I would expect because these seem to float around everywhere to one degree or another. But aren't protons conserved by nuclear reactions? Or are the protons emitted as solar wind hydrogen atoms that were expelled from the sun as a result of turbulence prior to being consumed in the fusion reactions?
Are neutrons released during hydrogen fusion? Is hydrogen fusion the only type of fusion going on in the sun, or just the main one?
Actually, yes, there are neutrons in the 'solar wind' but they are bound into the nuclei of oxygen and carbon atoms or, more correctly, oxygen and carbon ions. A neutron alone cannot interact with the magnetic fields that abound in the vicinity of the sun. If ten were, by some chance, ejected all alone toward the earth, there would be five of them left in ~10.5 minutes and the attrition would continue so that none would reach the earth unless the trip were less than an hour. Neutrons rapidly decay into an electron and a proton if they are not bound to a proton in an atomic nucleus.
Granted, the Wikipedia article is less than comprehensive but, then, it is free. There are other references for the solar wind, just plug the phrase into a search engine and go!
Granted, the Wikipedia article is less than comprehensive but, then, it is free. There are other references for the solar wind, just plug the phrase into a search engine and go!
QUOTE (light in the tunnel+Aug 20 2009, 12:15 AM)
Does solar wind include neutrons or any other kinds of particles other than protons and electrons?
Are there any complete molecules, like for example helium since one would expect a lot of helium to be generated by all that hydrogen-fusion?
What generates the protons and electrons actually? Electrons I would expect because these seem to float around everywhere to one degree or another. But aren't protons conserved by nuclear reactions? Or are the protons emitted as solar wind hydrogen atoms that were expelled from the sun as a result of turbulence prior to being consumed in the fusion reactions?
Are neutrons released during hydrogen fusion? Is hydrogen fusion the only type of fusion going on in the sun, or just the main one?
Hi LiT;
Most of the solar wind consists of protons, avg. (normal) velocity of ~ 500 km. sec.
However, Yes, there are neutrons in the solar wind usually detected at times of solar flares.
Furthermore; the decaying neutrons have been shown to increase the flux of a certain spectrum of electrons and protons.
See here for example:
http://www.iop.org/EJ/article/1538-4357/46....text.html#rf21
Lunar
Are there any complete molecules, like for example helium since one would expect a lot of helium to be generated by all that hydrogen-fusion?
What generates the protons and electrons actually? Electrons I would expect because these seem to float around everywhere to one degree or another. But aren't protons conserved by nuclear reactions? Or are the protons emitted as solar wind hydrogen atoms that were expelled from the sun as a result of turbulence prior to being consumed in the fusion reactions?
Are neutrons released during hydrogen fusion? Is hydrogen fusion the only type of fusion going on in the sun, or just the main one?
Hi LiT;
Most of the solar wind consists of protons, avg. (normal) velocity of ~ 500 km. sec.
However, Yes, there are neutrons in the solar wind usually detected at times of solar flares.
Furthermore; the decaying neutrons have been shown to increase the flux of a certain spectrum of electrons and protons.
See here for example:
http://www.iop.org/EJ/article/1538-4357/46....text.html#rf21
Lunar
G'day from the land of ozzzzzz
In experimental pinch of magnetic fields high production of Neutrons are formed.
Knowing this and the formation of solar flares from magnetic reconnection one would expect an initial high Neutron production, lasting for a few minutes, than changing to Protons.
There are a number of links related to this, if your interested I will post them.
Here is one:
http://arxiv.org/abs/0901.2128
Naked-eye optical flash from GRB 080319B: Tracing the decaying neutrons in the outflow
Authors: Yi-Zhong Fan, Bing Zhang, Da-Ming Wei
(Submitted on 14 Jan 2009)
In experimental pinch of magnetic fields high production of Neutrons are formed.
Knowing this and the formation of solar flares from magnetic reconnection one would expect an initial high Neutron production, lasting for a few minutes, than changing to Protons.
There are a number of links related to this, if your interested I will post them.
Here is one:
http://arxiv.org/abs/0901.2128
Naked-eye optical flash from GRB 080319B: Tracing the decaying neutrons in the outflow
Authors: Yi-Zhong Fan, Bing Zhang, Da-Ming Wei
(Submitted on 14 Jan 2009)
QUOTE
Abstract: For an unsteady baryonic gamma-ray burst (GRB) outflow, the fast and slow proton shells collide with each other and produce energetic soft gamma-ray emission. If the outflow has a significant neutron component, the ultra-relativistic neutrons initially expand freely until decaying at a larger radius. The late time proton shells ejected from the GRB central engine, after powering the regular internal shocks, will sweep these $\beta-$decay products and give rise to very bright UV/optical emission. The naked-eye optical flash from GRB 080319B, an energetic explosion in the distant universe, can be well explained in this way.
An excellent example of Harry doing a keyword search and linking to an article he hasn't read and can't understand, which has nothing to do with the question.
The cited article only tries to explain some electrons and protons spectra through neutrons, which is short of an observation of neutrons.
And then, I'd like an explanation how neutrons could appear in a flare or in the Solar wind. As stated, they're unstable. Some are created by fusion reactions at the Sun's centre, but our star isn't stirred, as we know from chromosphere spectra. A neutron created there has zero chance of reaching the surface: disintegrates before, or reacts with a proton or a heavier nucleus.
The Solar wind has no component energetic enough to create neutrons, does it? And then, other particle sources (cosmic radiation) wouldn't create any neutron flux big enough to be observable in the Solar wind's flux.
So unless there are better arguments, my guess is - no neutron - and some other explanation for the proton and electron spectra. Other thoughts?
And then, I'd like an explanation how neutrons could appear in a flare or in the Solar wind. As stated, they're unstable. Some are created by fusion reactions at the Sun's centre, but our star isn't stirred, as we know from chromosphere spectra. A neutron created there has zero chance of reaching the surface: disintegrates before, or reacts with a proton or a heavier nucleus.
The Solar wind has no component energetic enough to create neutrons, does it? And then, other particle sources (cosmic radiation) wouldn't create any neutron flux big enough to be observable in the Solar wind's flux.
So unless there are better arguments, my guess is - no neutron - and some other explanation for the proton and electron spectra. Other thoughts?
QUOTE
The solar wind is a stream of charged particles—a plasma—ejected from the upper atmosphere of the sun. It consists mostly of electrons and protons with energies of about 1 keV. The stream of particles varies in temperature and speed with the passage of time. These particles are able to escape the sun's gravity, in part because of the high temperature of the corona, but also because of high kinetic energy that particles gain through a process that is not well-understood.
While early models of the solar wind used primarily thermal energy to accelerate the material, by the 1960s it was clear that thermal acceleration alone cannot account for the high speed of solar wind. An additional unknown acceleration mechanism is required, and likely relates to magnetic fields in the solar atmosphere.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_wind
While early models of the solar wind used primarily thermal energy to accelerate the material, by the 1960s it was clear that thermal acceleration alone cannot account for the high speed of solar wind. An additional unknown acceleration mechanism is required, and likely relates to magnetic fields in the solar atmosphere.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_wind
Neutrons have no charge, and are unaffected by magnetic fields.
Isn't is simplier to look this up than it is to speculate?
Enthalpy, I suppose you are addressing your comment to my article....in my post, so I will respond.
Enthalpy wrote:
The cited article only tries to explain some electrons and protons spectra through neutrons, which is short of an observation of neutrons.
Wrong....please read again...these are from MEASURENTS from the ISEE 3 spacecraft..." We have found evidence for fluxes of energetic electrons in interplanetary space on board the ISEE 3 spacecraft.."
Furthermore these are electrons which are a result of decaying neutrons and can be distinguished from the electrons originating in a solar flare by their energy spectra....
From the article...
"The decay electrons arrived at the spacecraft shortly before the electrons from the flare and can be distinguished from the latter by their distinctive energy spectrum"."
These were detected, by the way, in the ISEE satellite which orbits sun in the vacinity of earth...about 1 au from sun.
Enthalpy wrote:
Wrong....please read again...these are from MEASURENTS from the ISEE 3 spacecraft..." We have found evidence for fluxes of energetic electrons in interplanetary space on board the ISEE 3 spacecraft.."
Furthermore these are electrons which are a result of decaying neutrons and can be distinguished from the electrons originating in a solar flare by their energy spectra....
From the article...
"The decay electrons arrived at the spacecraft shortly before the electrons from the flare and can be distinguished from the latter by their distinctive energy spectrum"."
These were detected, by the way, in the ISEE satellite which orbits sun in the vacinity of earth...about 1 au from sun.
Enthalpy wrote:
And then, I'd like an explanation how neutrons could appear in a flare or in the Solar wind.
Simple...you are assuming neutrons can only be produced in the core....however, they ALREADY EXIST in at the solar surface in Helium ..and these He atoms apparently are ripped apart in the flares....
Whatever the mechanism...neutrons are definitely present BOTH CLOSE TO THE SOLAR SURFACE AND IN THE SOLAR WIND AT EARTH.
QUOTE FROM THE ARTICLE...
"Previous studies have reported OBSERVATION of interplanetary NEUTRONS from solar flares by three methods:
(1) DIRECT DETECTION of neutrons in space from flares on 1980 June 21 (Chupp et al. 1982), 1982 June 3 (Chupp et al. 1987), 1988 December 16 (Dunphy, Chupp, & Rieger 1990), 1991 June 9 (Ryan et al. 1993), and 1991 June 15 (Debrunner et al. 1993);..."
"2) "detection of their decay protons in space after flares on 1980 June 21, 1982 June 3, and 1984 April 25 (Evenson, Meyer, & Pyle 1983; Evenson, Kroeger, & Meyer 1985; Evenson et al. 1990; Ruffolo 1991);"
..
(3)" ..ground-based detection of neutrons from flares on 1982 June 3 (Debrunner et al. 1983; Efimov, Kocharov, & Kudela 1983), 1990 May 24 (Shea, Smart, & Pyle 1991), 1991 March 22 (Pyle & Simpson 1991), ..."
These are all observational results ....
Here's the article again for you to read...and its not a 2 bit article from axiv either, but from the highly respected pier reviewed... and most respected astrophysics journal on planet earth...
THE ASTROPHYSICAL JOURNAL, 464:L87L90, 1996 June 10
http://www.iop.org/EJ/article/1538-4357/46....text.html#rf21
Lunar
Enthalpy wrote:
QUOTE
The cited article only tries to explain some electrons and protons spectra through neutrons, which is short of an observation of neutrons.
Wrong....please read again...these are from MEASURENTS from the ISEE 3 spacecraft..." We have found evidence for fluxes of energetic electrons in interplanetary space on board the ISEE 3 spacecraft.."
Furthermore these are electrons which are a result of decaying neutrons and can be distinguished from the electrons originating in a solar flare by their energy spectra....
From the article...
"The decay electrons arrived at the spacecraft shortly before the electrons from the flare and can be distinguished from the latter by their distinctive energy spectrum"."
These were detected, by the way, in the ISEE satellite which orbits sun in the vacinity of earth...about 1 au from sun.
Enthalpy wrote:
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
The cited article only tries to explain some electrons and protons spectra through neutrons, which is short of an observation of neutrons. |
Wrong....please read again...these are from MEASURENTS from the ISEE 3 spacecraft..." We have found evidence for fluxes of energetic electrons in interplanetary space on board the ISEE 3 spacecraft.."
Furthermore these are electrons which are a result of decaying neutrons and can be distinguished from the electrons originating in a solar flare by their energy spectra....
From the article...
"The decay electrons arrived at the spacecraft shortly before the electrons from the flare and can be distinguished from the latter by their distinctive energy spectrum"."
These were detected, by the way, in the ISEE satellite which orbits sun in the vacinity of earth...about 1 au from sun.
Enthalpy wrote:
And then, I'd like an explanation how neutrons could appear in a flare or in the Solar wind.
Simple...you are assuming neutrons can only be produced in the core....however, they ALREADY EXIST in at the solar surface in Helium ..and these He atoms apparently are ripped apart in the flares....
Whatever the mechanism...neutrons are definitely present BOTH CLOSE TO THE SOLAR SURFACE AND IN THE SOLAR WIND AT EARTH.
QUOTE FROM THE ARTICLE...
"Previous studies have reported OBSERVATION of interplanetary NEUTRONS from solar flares by three methods:
(1) DIRECT DETECTION of neutrons in space from flares on 1980 June 21 (Chupp et al. 1982), 1982 June 3 (Chupp et al. 1987), 1988 December 16 (Dunphy, Chupp, & Rieger 1990), 1991 June 9 (Ryan et al. 1993), and 1991 June 15 (Debrunner et al. 1993);..."
"2) "detection of their decay protons in space after flares on 1980 June 21, 1982 June 3, and 1984 April 25 (Evenson, Meyer, & Pyle 1983; Evenson, Kroeger, & Meyer 1985; Evenson et al. 1990; Ruffolo 1991);"
..
(3)" ..ground-based detection of neutrons from flares on 1982 June 3 (Debrunner et al. 1983; Efimov, Kocharov, & Kudela 1983), 1990 May 24 (Shea, Smart, & Pyle 1991), 1991 March 22 (Pyle & Simpson 1991), ..."
These are all observational results ....
Here's the article again for you to read...and its not a 2 bit article from axiv either, but from the highly respected pier reviewed... and most respected astrophysics journal on planet earth...
THE ASTROPHYSICAL JOURNAL, 464:L87L90, 1996 June 10
http://www.iop.org/EJ/article/1538-4357/46....text.html#rf21
Lunar
G'day from the land of of ozzz
Neutrons are one of the end products and because it has a Neutral Charge, but! that does not mean it does not take part.
The actual pinching of the electromagnetic fields is the process responsible. The elements produced by such a process is well documented.
http://arxiv.org/abs/0903.3968
Reconnection Electric Field and Hardness of X-Ray Emission of Solar Flares
Authors: Chang Liu, Haimin Wang
(Submitted on 23 Mar 2009)
Neutrons are one of the end products and because it has a Neutral Charge, but! that does not mean it does not take part.
The actual pinching of the electromagnetic fields is the process responsible. The elements produced by such a process is well documented.
http://arxiv.org/abs/0903.3968
Reconnection Electric Field and Hardness of X-Ray Emission of Solar Flares
Authors: Chang Liu, Haimin Wang
(Submitted on 23 Mar 2009)
QUOTE
Abstract: Magnetic reconnection is believed to be the prime mechanism to trigger solar flares and accelerate electrons up to energies of MeV. In the classical two-dimensional reconnection model, the separation motion of chromospheric ribbons manifests the successive reconnection that takes place higher up in the corona. Meanwhile, downward traveling energetic electrons bombard the dense chromosphere and create hard X-ray (HXR) emissions, which provide a valuable diagnostic of electron acceleration. Analyses of ribbon dynamics and HXR spectrum have been carried out separately. In this Letter, we report a study of the comparison of reconnection electric field measured from ribbon motion and hardness (spectral index) of X-ray emission derived from X-ray spectrum. Our survey of the maximum average reconnection electric field and the minimum overall spectral index for 13 two-ribbon flares show that they are strongly anti-correlated. The former is also strongly correlated with flare magnitude measured using the peak flux of soft X-ray emissions. These provide strong support for electron acceleration models based on the electric field generated at reconnecting current sheet during flares.
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