This page on wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Davidovits
presents a short bio of Davidovits and his theory about how pyramids were built.
According to this theory, the ancient Egyptians would have used a kind of concrete instead of carving huge blocks of stone.
For our modern times, this might still be an very attractive technology since the current cement industry generates huge quantities of CO2 in the athmosphere while it seems that the ancient Egyptians technology requires no fuels and needs no decarbonation of limestone.
But is this theory reliable?
And how would it be possible to produce such concrete on a large scale?
And what are the basic principles finally?
The concrete theory seems to be built around the idea that the Egyptians simply couldn't have been technologically advanced enough to build the pyramids in the conventionally accepted manner. This is a senseless assertion. The ancient stone cutting techniques that were used to create the pyramid stones are still used in some egyptian quarries today. That fact aside I think that scientists have been able to trace the stones to the individual quarries that produced them.
I can't really say with certainty whether or not the necessary scale of concrete production would have been possible. I think that the white outer layer of stone that was placed on the pyramids after construction may have been made in a similar method to the one described but again I'm not certain.
There are more theories about the pyramids than can ever be dealt with. I heard recently that a survey of the world was taken to find out which human structures would be standing in 20000 years if humanity disappeared today. Needless to say this was a short list but the pyramids were on it. That really puts things in perspective for me. I heard about this info secondhand, if anyone knows where I can find a paper on this structure survival information I would appreciate the link/journal lead.
I can't really say with certainty whether or not the necessary scale of concrete production would have been possible. I think that the white outer layer of stone that was placed on the pyramids after construction may have been made in a similar method to the one described but again I'm not certain.
There are more theories about the pyramids than can ever be dealt with. I heard recently that a survey of the world was taken to find out which human structures would be standing in 20000 years if humanity disappeared today. Needless to say this was a short list but the pyramids were on it. That really puts things in perspective for me. I heard about this info secondhand, if anyone knows where I can find a paper on this structure survival information I would appreciate the link/journal lead.
Lalbatros,
If they used concrete then why would there be quarries in the area?
If they used concrete then why would there be quarries in the area?
QUOTE
The mortar used is of an unknown origin. It has been analyzed and it's chemical composition is known but it can't be reproduced. It is stronger than the stone and still holding up today.
http://www.crystalinks.com/gpstats.html
QUOTE (DuzmA+Mar 17 2008, 02:33 AM)
There are more theories about the pyramids than can ever be dealt with.
Yep. We even have a resident loony who thinks the pyramids were grown
Yep. We even have a resident loony who thinks the pyramids were grown
QUOTE (N O M+Mar 16 2008, 02:57 PM)
Yep. We even have a resident loony who thinks the pyramids were grown
Just make sure you plant the seed POINTY side UP.
Just make sure you plant the seed POINTY side UP.
Tsk, tsk, not at all - just tell Dubya about them and he´ll knock them down and then give No.2 the contract to build them back up, using arrested "terrorists" as cheap labour - actually you can just substitute the names with those of your own choice and political inclination - the fundamental socio-economics remain the same - i.e. the rich get richer, the poor get poorer and the rest of us get screwed to make up any shortfall.
Happy St. Patrick´s Day
edward 3
This is seriously orwellian - I typed the guy´s real first name ( ya the abbreviated first name of your VP) and it was not accepted!!!!! Glad i live in old europe!
Happy St. Patrick´s Day
edward 3
This is seriously orwellian - I typed the guy´s real first name ( ya the abbreviated first name of your VP) and it was not accepted!!!!! Glad i live in old europe!
I wouldn't put much stock in information that comes from crystalinks. I have heard this type of thing before and I think it is just wishful thinking. People want to believe that the pyramids are something mystical, which in my opinion takse away from the architectural achievement that they truly are.
But they were designed to sharpen razor blades... 
QUOTE (N O M+Mar 17 2008, 01:01 AM)
But they were designed to sharpen razor blades...
No, my friend...I don't think so.
No, my friend...I don't think so.
Weren't they built by refugees from Atlantis?
The Egyptians must have `believed in the future' believing that their kings could be brought back to life in the future. Had they had some liquid nitrogen then their kings could have been cloned today. However they would be normal people without much genetic differences.
QUOTE (PIATLAS+Mar 17 2008, 01:22 AM)
The Egyptians must have `believed in the future' believing that their kings could be brought back to life in the future. Had they had some liquid nitrogen then their kings could have been cloned today. However they would be normal people without much genetic differences.
DANGER! DANGER! LOONY ALERT! LOONY ALERT!
DANGER! DANGER! LOONY ALERT! LOONY ALERT!
Believing in the future must have been quite an advancement. I thought people in the past simply lived minute to minute thinking each would be their last and refusing to believe in tomorrow....
QUOTE (DuzmA+Mar 17 2008, 02:20 PM)
Weren't they built by refugees from Atlantis?
Have you been talking to Paulo Riven?
Have you been talking to Paulo Riven?
QUOTE (N O M+Mar 17 2008, 07:34 AM)
Have you been talking to Paulo Riven?
I don't think so...you see, DuzmA has higher intelligence than poor Paulo and would never be able to fall for such balderdash. Unlike some.
I don't think so...you see, DuzmA has higher intelligence than poor Paulo and would never be able to fall for such balderdash. Unlike some.
Thank you for the compliment Doc. I was making an attempt at humor.
QUOTE (DuzmA+Mar 17 2008, 11:29 PM)
Thank you for the compliment Doc. I was making an attempt at humor.
I know
I know
I think the more interesting question is how did they move the stones. I believe they may have used sound.
QUOTE (tikay+Mar 20 2008, 06:08 AM)
I believe they may have used sound.
Yeah. The sound would have been an overseer yelling at the other workers.
What's wrong with the idea of muscle power. It may be hard for the lazy people of today imagining the the results of hard work, but it is possible.
Yeah. The sound would have been an overseer yelling at the other workers.
What's wrong with the idea of muscle power. It may be hard for the lazy people of today imagining the the results of hard work, but it is possible.
QUOTE (N O M+Mar 19 2008, 06:56 PM)
Yeah. The sound would have been an overseer yelling at the other workers.
What's wrong with the idea of muscle power. It may be hard for the lazy people of today imagining the the results of hard work, but it is possible.
What's wrong with the idea of muscle power. It may be hard for the lazy people of today imagining the the results of hard work, but it is possible.
QUOTE (N O M+Mar 19 2008, 10:56 AM)
Yeah. The sound would have been an overseer yelling at the other workers.
It's likely!
It's likely!
Muscle power does seem to be the most likely method. They probably placed the blocks on wooden sleds and used manpower and beasts of burden to pull the sleds down specially built roads.
The real question and I think the issue that you are reffering to is how they moved them up and into place after they moved them to the construction site. I haven't read anything about the use of sound but it sounds interesting. I have heard it suggested that they basically covered them in dirt, raising its level as they ascended in the building. I have also seen designs for elaborate scaffokding that may have been used. I could go on and on with these but I won't as these theories are likely known to all of us.
I'm unsure of exactly which theory to support as they all have holes. I'm interested to hear more about the sound idea and also to get everyone's general take on exactly what happened.
The real question and I think the issue that you are reffering to is how they moved them up and into place after they moved them to the construction site. I haven't read anything about the use of sound but it sounds interesting. I have heard it suggested that they basically covered them in dirt, raising its level as they ascended in the building. I have also seen designs for elaborate scaffokding that may have been used. I could go on and on with these but I won't as these theories are likely known to all of us.
I'm unsure of exactly which theory to support as they all have holes. I'm interested to hear more about the sound idea and also to get everyone's general take on exactly what happened.
QUOTE (tikay+Mar 19 2008, 05:08 PM)
I think the more interesting question is how did they move the stones. I believe they may have used sound.
Tikay,
I believe you are referring to this link which you posted in another thread. It claims that 150 kg stones were lifted 250 m in the air (also some horizontal motion but we'll ignore that) in about 3 minutes using 13 drums and 6 trumpets. The energy needed to lift a stone of this size comes from the formula P.E. = mgh:
P.E. = 150 kg * 9.8 m/s^2 * 250 m = 367,500 J
A horn produces about 0.3 watts and I'm guessing a drum is in the same ballpark http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_power .
19 * 0.3 W = 5.7 W total
5.7 W * 3 minutes = 5.7 W * 180 s = 1026 J.
We'd need about 358 times as many instruments and that's assuming 100% conversion efficiency, which is an unreasonable assumption considering that the instruments are 60 m away from the rock (most will go in other directions besides towards the rock) and that no mechanism has been proposed to explain how the sound energy would preferentially apply force in an upwards direction only.
I noticed the following claim:
This "my society classified the films" argument falls into the same category as "the dog ate my homework." The homework and the films never existed.
Tikay,
I believe you are referring to this link which you posted in another thread. It claims that 150 kg stones were lifted 250 m in the air (also some horizontal motion but we'll ignore that) in about 3 minutes using 13 drums and 6 trumpets. The energy needed to lift a stone of this size comes from the formula P.E. = mgh:
P.E. = 150 kg * 9.8 m/s^2 * 250 m = 367,500 J
A horn produces about 0.3 watts and I'm guessing a drum is in the same ballpark http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_power .
19 * 0.3 W = 5.7 W total
5.7 W * 3 minutes = 5.7 W * 180 s = 1026 J.
We'd need about 358 times as many instruments and that's assuming 100% conversion efficiency, which is an unreasonable assumption considering that the instruments are 60 m away from the rock (most will go in other directions besides towards the rock) and that no mechanism has been proposed to explain how the sound energy would preferentially apply force in an upwards direction only.
I noticed the following claim:
QUOTE
Because he had the opinion in the beginning that he was the victim of mass-psychosis he made two films of the incident. The films showed exactly the same things that he had witnessed.
The English Society for which Dr Jarl was working confiscated the two films and declared them classified.
The English Society for which Dr Jarl was working confiscated the two films and declared them classified.
This "my society classified the films" argument falls into the same category as "the dog ate my homework." The homework and the films never existed.
I was thinking about it and decided that it was highly unlikely that sound was used in the pyramid building process. The other I can somehow believe. Maybe magnetism was used in building the pyramids?
As in Coral Castle...built singlehandedly by Edward Leedskalnin in Florida.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coral_Castle
As in Coral Castle...built singlehandedly by Edward Leedskalnin in Florida.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coral_Castle
Sorry to jump on the offensive, Tikay, but I just had to.
I have a few simple questions. If the ancient Egyptians used sound, magnetism, crystal power, etc in the construction of the pyramids, why then do we have no archaeological remnants of the devices thus used?
If they needed no specialized equipment to accomplish this, then why (given all the advances in modern technology) haven't we figured out how to duplicate the techniques?
I think it's far more likely that muscle power was the primary engine, and that engineered structures (scaffolding, ramps, etc) was the primary tool for it.
While it shows a great deal of imagination to envision unusual techniques by which the pyramids were constructed, I think it also belittles the ambition, determination, expenditure and inventiveness needed to build them the "old fashioned way."
I have a few simple questions. If the ancient Egyptians used sound, magnetism, crystal power, etc in the construction of the pyramids, why then do we have no archaeological remnants of the devices thus used?
If they needed no specialized equipment to accomplish this, then why (given all the advances in modern technology) haven't we figured out how to duplicate the techniques?
I think it's far more likely that muscle power was the primary engine, and that engineered structures (scaffolding, ramps, etc) was the primary tool for it.
While it shows a great deal of imagination to envision unusual techniques by which the pyramids were constructed, I think it also belittles the ambition, determination, expenditure and inventiveness needed to build them the "old fashioned way."
No problem BDW...
I think they were far more advanced in those times than we give them credit for.
Have you investigated the posts where I have posted links to coral castle...how did Mr. Leedskalnin move those "stones" without help? I believe they may have used a similar power in Egypt to lift the massive stones of pyramids...maybe it is illogical, and maybe I have been brainwashed by my up-bringing but, is it so completely nonsensical?
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_quer...le&search_type=
I think they were far more advanced in those times than we give them credit for.
Have you investigated the posts where I have posted links to coral castle...how did Mr. Leedskalnin move those "stones" without help? I believe they may have used a similar power in Egypt to lift the massive stones of pyramids...maybe it is illogical, and maybe I have been brainwashed by my up-bringing but, is it so completely nonsensical?
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_quer...le&search_type=
QUOTE (tikay+Mar 20 2008, 10:12 AM)
No problem BDW...
I think they were far more advanced in those times than we give them credit for.
Have you investigated the posts where I have posted links to coral castle...how did Mr. Leedskalnin move those "stones" without help? I believe they may have used a similar power in Egypt to lift the massive stones of pyramids...maybe it is illogical, and maybe I have been brainwashed by my up-bringing but, is it so completely nonsensical?
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_quer...le&search_type=
I think they were far more advanced in those times than we give them credit for.
Have you investigated the posts where I have posted links to coral castle...how did Mr. Leedskalnin move those "stones" without help? I believe they may have used a similar power in Egypt to lift the massive stones of pyramids...maybe it is illogical, and maybe I have been brainwashed by my up-bringing but, is it so completely nonsensical?
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_quer...le&search_type=
QUOTE (barakn+Mar 19 2008, 09:24 PM)
This "my society classified the films" argument falls into the same category as "the dog ate my homework." The homework and the films never existed.
You are certainly entitled to have that opinion.
QUOTE (tikay+Mar 20 2008, 01:12 PM)
No problem BDW...
I think they were far more advanced in those times than we give them credit for.
Have you investigated the posts where I have posted links to coral castle...how did Mr. Leedskalnin move those "stones" without help? I believe they may have used a similar power in Egypt to lift the massive stones of pyramids...maybe it is illogical, and maybe I have been brainwashed by my up-bringing but, is it so completely nonsensical?
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_quer...le&search_type=
Well, I don't buy the stories Ed Leedskalnin told about building the castle. If he really had used magnetism to levitate the stones, then why did he not patent and market his invention? After all, the building of the castle was -according to all sources- meant to impress his estranged fiancee back in Latvia. What better way to impress a woman than to be recognized as a genius scientist who made millions off his inventions?
Have you ever visited the Coral Castle?
It's quite a bit more impressive in person than in photos, although it's not quite as big as some people imagine.
I think they were far more advanced in those times than we give them credit for.
Have you investigated the posts where I have posted links to coral castle...how did Mr. Leedskalnin move those "stones" without help? I believe they may have used a similar power in Egypt to lift the massive stones of pyramids...maybe it is illogical, and maybe I have been brainwashed by my up-bringing but, is it so completely nonsensical?
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_quer...le&search_type=
Well, I don't buy the stories Ed Leedskalnin told about building the castle. If he really had used magnetism to levitate the stones, then why did he not patent and market his invention? After all, the building of the castle was -according to all sources- meant to impress his estranged fiancee back in Latvia. What better way to impress a woman than to be recognized as a genius scientist who made millions off his inventions?
Have you ever visited the Coral Castle?
It's quite a bit more impressive in person than in photos, although it's not quite as big as some people imagine.
I have never visited that "castle" and I have only found out about it in the last two years or so, through the internet. How do you think the castle was constructed?
QUOTE (tikay+Mar 20 2008, 03:30 PM)
I have never visited that "castle" and I have only found out about it in the last two years or so, through the internet. How do you think the castle was constructed?
The answer to that question as well as to the unspoke question "Why is BDW so skeptical of this castle?" all in one link!
Coral Castle photos
Sorry, Tikay
Edit: Yes, that's Ed Leedskalnin in those photos.
The answer to that question as well as to the unspoke question "Why is BDW so skeptical of this castle?" all in one link!
Coral Castle photos
Sorry, Tikay
Edit: Yes, that's Ed Leedskalnin in those photos.
He used just these pullys and his own weight to lift 30 ton stones? I don't think so, he used some sort of anti-gravity device, surely!
Like this dealio.
http://www.geocities.com/anti_gravity/Cora...e/photos_1.html
Like this dealio.
http://www.geocities.com/anti_gravity/Cora...e/photos_1.html
QUOTE (tikay+Mar 20 2008, 03:03 PM)
He used just these pullys and his own weight to lift 30 ton stones? I don't think so, he used some sort of anti-gravity device, surely!
Like this dealio.
http://www.geocities.com/anti_gravity/Cora...e/photos_1.html
Like this dealio.
http://www.geocities.com/anti_gravity/Cora...e/photos_1.html
QUOTE (tikay+Mar 20 2008, 04:03 PM)
He used just these pullys and his own weight to lift 30 ton stones? I don't think so, he used some sort of anti-gravity device, surely!
Like this dealio.
http://www.geocities.com/anti_gravity/Cora...e/photos_1.html
Those devices DO actually levitate things, I've seen them work.
But not 30 ton blocks of limestone.
More like 6 ounce blocks of metal.
Ed really did experiment a lot with magnetism, but he never got anywhere.
There was a little museum that used to be across the street from the castle, (now, it's a pizza hut) that had built new versions of his devices with the actual parts he would have used, and shown what they could do. The top picture on the page could support a dinner-plate sized steel plate about 4" in the air above it, more or less steadily too. It was pretty cool, but not really amazing.
Here's a quote from the coral castle website:
http://www.coralcastle.com/biography.asp
Like this dealio.
http://www.geocities.com/anti_gravity/Cora...e/photos_1.html
Those devices DO actually levitate things, I've seen them work.
But not 30 ton blocks of limestone.
More like 6 ounce blocks of metal.
Ed really did experiment a lot with magnetism, but he never got anywhere.
There was a little museum that used to be across the street from the castle, (now, it's a pizza hut) that had built new versions of his devices with the actual parts he would have used, and shown what they could do. The top picture on the page could support a dinner-plate sized steel plate about 4" in the air above it, more or less steadily too. It was pretty cool, but not really amazing.
Here's a quote from the coral castle website:
QUOTE
If anyone ever questioned Ed about how he moved the blocks of coral, Ed would only reply that he understood the laws of weight and leverage well.
http://www.coralcastle.com/biography.asp
QUOTE (tikay+Mar 20 2008, 09:03 PM)
He used just these pullys and his own weight to lift 30 ton stones? I don't think so, he used some sort of anti-gravity device, surely!
Like this dealio.
http://www.geocities.com/anti_gravity/Cora...e/photos_1.html
Most of the stones are only several tons and easily movable with block and tackle. The 30 ton stone is another story though.
Like this dealio.
http://www.geocities.com/anti_gravity/Cora...e/photos_1.html
Most of the stones are only several tons and easily movable with block and tackle. The 30 ton stone is another story though.
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