Please take a look at the link and add input if you feel so inclined.
http://www.enotalone.com/article/11493.html
I found this article on Social Intelligence...something a little along the lines of the topics I have been questioning in this forum. While I have referred to some of the trauma in my past I have in no way expanded upon how much and how often I experienced a sort of Hyper-vigilance that relates to the amygdala, and it's performance during times of stress and duress.
I am not really willing to tell all where the injury's of my past are concerned but the stressors were many and rather constant between bouts of happy times.
I wonder if an amygdala triggered reaction and the resulting bursts of adrenalin can become addictive to a person so that they begin to create (drama) stressors because they have become accustomed to the adrenalin reaction and feel a need of it/ do not believe this is my particular case, but I am fairly biased about myself so I really cannot be positive about it can I?
I believe that it may have some bearing on social skills and how people who come from a harsh childhood may have trouble with hyper-vigilance and resulting over-reactions to circumstances in their future lives if not aroused to the problem and receptive of help, so that they may change the pattern of that hyper-vigilance to average situations.
I wish to have a better understanding of how to phrase this so that I would get a really interested crowd to participate in the discussion~ but I hope what I have written will peak your interest, and that some of you will entertain thoughts about anyone you have known who may have an addiction to adrenalin, or who may show signs of an over-aroused amygdala, and want to discuss this.
Could it be that most of todays "Drama Queens" are coming from emotionally intense childhoods, or traumatic past life experiences? And could it be a possibility that they might somehow get addicted to adrenalin from this ?
Does the amygdala lose control over regulation at some point? Does this system get overworked by overuse and work less efficiently? And lastly how does this work together (or not) with dopamine regulation and serotonin output in the brain & throughout ones nervous system?
Thanks in advance for any ideas on this topic.
Having now read all three pages from the link, the subject matter seems to be a bit different. I would be interested in hearing anything on either subject so that I would have a better grasp on emotional intelligence, as it is coming to be understood these days.
To read all three pages of the article just click on the blue links within the pages.
To read all three pages of the article just click on the blue links within the pages.
I do think that it is a learned behavior that becomes an addiction for the brain. I feel the same about bi polar also. I have known many people over the years with bi polar and other mental disorders, and it seems the brain just gets to a point where it can no longer "regulate" itself.
I didn't get very deep into the brain in my psychology studies, but it was always something I wanted to take more classes in.... I have my ideas...
If you have hyper vigilance behavior the only thing I can suggest is to surround yourself with people that aren't that way, and meditate through mental situations to "re train" the responses. Whether or not it would work I have no idea, but it may be possible to lessen the effects.
I am out of time today, but I would love to chat with ya tomorrow. Actually, there was an interesting article on bi polar (and lithium and grey matter) a few days ago that I wanted to start a post on but didn't have the time. Did you by any chance see that one?
I didn't get very deep into the brain in my psychology studies, but it was always something I wanted to take more classes in.... I have my ideas...
If you have hyper vigilance behavior the only thing I can suggest is to surround yourself with people that aren't that way, and meditate through mental situations to "re train" the responses. Whether or not it would work I have no idea, but it may be possible to lessen the effects.
I am out of time today, but I would love to chat with ya tomorrow. Actually, there was an interesting article on bi polar (and lithium and grey matter) a few days ago that I wanted to start a post on but didn't have the time. Did you by any chance see that one?
Thank you! THEY...I didn't see the bi-polar article, no. I have seen people on Lithium though and it made me a little bit scared of the stuff personally, they looked like heroin addicts in the beginning (alot of nodding out and falling asleep in group therapy meetings) and I never saw them much after they adjusted to the dosages.
I would guess that Lithium works as well as any other psychotrophic med...after a person adjusts to it, anyway.
I will look for the article.
I would guess that Lithium works as well as any other psychotrophic med...after a person adjusts to it, anyway.
I will look for the article.
Tikay, in case you haven't found the article yet, here it is:
http://www.physorg.com/printnews.php?newsid=95351363
This is the paragraph that I found of particular interest:
While it doesn't talk about the amygdala, I find it interesting that the cingulate and paralimbic regions are larger. And wonder out loud if it is an effect of the drug or of the brain trying to normalise function from the drug stabilizing emotions. I am hoping this research is moving towards more of an understanding of bi polar.
I agree that Lithium makes people into zombies. The one person I know that was on the stuff was able to get back to a normal life though. Just no emotions!
But back to your subject, the amygdala and adrenalin addiction.... hmmmmmmmmm..... grrr, work demands my attention. More later!
http://www.physorg.com/printnews.php?newsid=95351363
This is the paragraph that I found of particular interest:
QUOTE
"Bipolar patients who were taking lithium had a striking increase in gray matter in the cingulate and paralimbic regions of the brain," she said. "These regions regulate attention, motivation and emotion, which are profoundly affected in bipolar illness."
While it doesn't talk about the amygdala, I find it interesting that the cingulate and paralimbic regions are larger. And wonder out loud if it is an effect of the drug or of the brain trying to normalise function from the drug stabilizing emotions. I am hoping this research is moving towards more of an understanding of bi polar.
I agree that Lithium makes people into zombies. The one person I know that was on the stuff was able to get back to a normal life though. Just no emotions!
But back to your subject, the amygdala and adrenalin addiction.... hmmmmmmmmm..... grrr, work demands my attention. More later!
I guess I am just trying to find a physiological connection to people who appear to be addicted to "Drama" in their lives...the kind of folks I tend to avoid.
For instance these people who find a need to start a conflict when things are going along rather smoothly....people admit they do these things and they cannot be sure why, usually they say they have a bad habit of starting a fight because they want validation of some sort.
I think that a need for what occurs within the body, may be a part of the reason for the need of conflict. I have decided that adrinalin may play a part, (i once thought I was doing this myself but that was many years ago) and that the small doses one gets were a sort of drug that the body craved at some point because it had become used to bursts of the substance and "did not know how" to function without these "doses".
Seems possible that there are people who might agree with this hypothesis but I dont know if there is research being done in the area. Guess I could google adrinalin addiction or something like that...
The article i linked to is very interesting but merely implies that people moods are catching or that toxic attitudes are possibly contageous as well as good moods and things such as fear or awe. Not really the same subject but there are similar adjuncts. For instance if fear was a big part of the climate of the moods in someones childhood, then it would be a consideration that the two can be connected at times.
An article in here yesterday also pointed out research being done on the amygdala relative to men and women looking at sexual pictures...so I guess the amygdala is involved in many aspects of a humans behavior, in more than I was thinking, for sure.
from wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrenaline_junkie
For instance these people who find a need to start a conflict when things are going along rather smoothly....people admit they do these things and they cannot be sure why, usually they say they have a bad habit of starting a fight because they want validation of some sort.
I think that a need for what occurs within the body, may be a part of the reason for the need of conflict. I have decided that adrinalin may play a part, (i once thought I was doing this myself but that was many years ago) and that the small doses one gets were a sort of drug that the body craved at some point because it had become used to bursts of the substance and "did not know how" to function without these "doses".
Seems possible that there are people who might agree with this hypothesis but I dont know if there is research being done in the area. Guess I could google adrinalin addiction or something like that...
The article i linked to is very interesting but merely implies that people moods are catching or that toxic attitudes are possibly contageous as well as good moods and things such as fear or awe. Not really the same subject but there are similar adjuncts. For instance if fear was a big part of the climate of the moods in someones childhood, then it would be a consideration that the two can be connected at times.
An article in here yesterday also pointed out research being done on the amygdala relative to men and women looking at sexual pictures...so I guess the amygdala is involved in many aspects of a humans behavior, in more than I was thinking, for sure.
from wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrenaline_junkie
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endorphin
The endorphin rush. An opioid type reaction that increases feelings of exhilaration, may become an invitation to a person to begin an argument or debate, to extend a fearful situation or effect one, and so on. On occasion I find a person will try to induce fear in myself or someone close to me and I watch the facial expression for signs of glee, or happiness at what seems a rather sadistic form of behavior.
These are the sorts of things I think we must examine as a society, along with doctors of psychology, so that we may become aware of our behaviors and if a problem is ferreted out it may then be dealt with. If a sadistic streak is found in ones friend or neighbor or family member (or self)...it may be pointed out as simply a possible endorphin rush need, or adrenalin addiction, and then the person will have a real valid biological process to think on instead of the much more stigmatized "sadist" label upon their person...an idea much more likely to be discounted altogether.
Therefore a person is much more likely to accept that their body may have become accustomed to endorphin bursts, even to the point of need of more such bodily reaction to stimulus, which might sometimes cause them to start up something, an action causing a reaction based in anger, or fear in someone... this being much better than alternatively calling this person (or seeing them as) a sadistic monster.
From article on Social Intelligence:
Our reactions to others, and theirs to us, have a far-reaching biological impact, sending out cascades of hormones that regulate everything from our hearts to our immune systems, making good relationships act like vitamins - and bad relationships like poisons. We can "catch" other people's emotions the way we catch a cold, and the consequences of isolation or relentless social stress can be life-shortening. Goleman explains the surprising accuracy of first impressions, the basis of charisma and emotional power, the complexity of sexual attraction, and how we detect lies. He describes the "dark side" of social intelligence, from narcissism to Machiavellianism and psychopathy. He also reveals our astonishing capacity for "mindsight," as well as the tragedy of those, like autistic children, whose mindsight is impaired.
and later:
When someone dumps their toxic feelings on us-explodes in anger or threats, shows disgust or contempt-they activate in us circuitry for those very same distressing emotions. Their act has potent neurological consequences: emotions are contagious. We "catch" strong emotions much as we do a rhinovirus-and so can come down with the emotional equivalent of a cold.
Every interaction has an emotional subtext. Along with whatever else we are doing, we can make each other feel a little better, or even a lot better, or a little worse-or a lot worse, as happened to me. Beyond what transpires in the moment, we can retain a mood that stays with us long after the direct encounter ends-an emotional afterglow (or afterglower, in my case).
These tacit transactions drive what amounts to an emotional economy, the net inner gains and losses we experience with a given person, or in a given conversation, or on any given day. By evening the net balance of feelings we have exchanged largely determines what kind of day-"good" or "bad"-we feel we've had.
The endorphin rush. An opioid type reaction that increases feelings of exhilaration, may become an invitation to a person to begin an argument or debate, to extend a fearful situation or effect one, and so on. On occasion I find a person will try to induce fear in myself or someone close to me and I watch the facial expression for signs of glee, or happiness at what seems a rather sadistic form of behavior.
These are the sorts of things I think we must examine as a society, along with doctors of psychology, so that we may become aware of our behaviors and if a problem is ferreted out it may then be dealt with. If a sadistic streak is found in ones friend or neighbor or family member (or self)...it may be pointed out as simply a possible endorphin rush need, or adrenalin addiction, and then the person will have a real valid biological process to think on instead of the much more stigmatized "sadist" label upon their person...an idea much more likely to be discounted altogether.
Therefore a person is much more likely to accept that their body may have become accustomed to endorphin bursts, even to the point of need of more such bodily reaction to stimulus, which might sometimes cause them to start up something, an action causing a reaction based in anger, or fear in someone... this being much better than alternatively calling this person (or seeing them as) a sadistic monster.
From article on Social Intelligence:
Our reactions to others, and theirs to us, have a far-reaching biological impact, sending out cascades of hormones that regulate everything from our hearts to our immune systems, making good relationships act like vitamins - and bad relationships like poisons. We can "catch" other people's emotions the way we catch a cold, and the consequences of isolation or relentless social stress can be life-shortening. Goleman explains the surprising accuracy of first impressions, the basis of charisma and emotional power, the complexity of sexual attraction, and how we detect lies. He describes the "dark side" of social intelligence, from narcissism to Machiavellianism and psychopathy. He also reveals our astonishing capacity for "mindsight," as well as the tragedy of those, like autistic children, whose mindsight is impaired.
and later:
When someone dumps their toxic feelings on us-explodes in anger or threats, shows disgust or contempt-they activate in us circuitry for those very same distressing emotions. Their act has potent neurological consequences: emotions are contagious. We "catch" strong emotions much as we do a rhinovirus-and so can come down with the emotional equivalent of a cold.
Every interaction has an emotional subtext. Along with whatever else we are doing, we can make each other feel a little better, or even a lot better, or a little worse-or a lot worse, as happened to me. Beyond what transpires in the moment, we can retain a mood that stays with us long after the direct encounter ends-an emotional afterglow (or afterglower, in my case).
These tacit transactions drive what amounts to an emotional economy, the net inner gains and losses we experience with a given person, or in a given conversation, or on any given day. By evening the net balance of feelings we have exchanged largely determines what kind of day-"good" or "bad"-we feel we've had.
QUOTE (tikay+Apr 13 2007, 09:26 PM)
...and then the person will have a real valid biological process to think on instead of the much more stigmatized "sadist" label upon their person...
I find idea's like this so intriguing and full of hope....I hope science gets the details of the brain worked out soon.
I find idea's like this so intriguing and full of hope....I hope science gets the details of the brain worked out soon.
tikay, I think that you are correct when you say people become addicted to "drama" and "emotional states". I am also a firm believer in the idea that victims will often engage in behaviors and patterns of behavior that will lead them to situations that cause them to be victimized again or become the victimizer themselves. For example, a physically abused child becomes an adult who only engages in relationships with physically abusive partners. Conversely, this same person may become an abuser themselves. There are many complex reasons for these types of behaviors, but overall, I see a trend for victims of trauma to engage in or seek out more trauma, relive the experience so to speak. I personally feel that the rush of biochemicals produced when a person is subjected to trauma are very addictive, and that this phenomenon goes along way to helping explain why the abused seem to seek out more trauma, albeit largely unconsciously. I think that people with dramatic and attention seeking personalities are being affected in this way too. They are rewarded by the "feelings" they get when they behave in a certain way. Feelings are after all, just complex biochemical reactions by an organism to it's environment. In a very real sense, these people have learned to be the way they are, this learning being regulated by chemical processes that lead to "feelings". This is why I prefer to take a behavioral approach to nearly all psychological problems but especially people who are cognitive of their need for treatment, in other words people who want to change themselves. Treatment then becomes straightforward, identify the undesired behavior or patterns of behavior, then make a plan to change that behavior.
QUOTE (Rusty Shackleford+Apr 13 2007, 10:10 PM)
I am also a firm believer in the idea that victims will often engage in behaviors and patterns of behavior that will lead them to situations that cause them to be victimized again or become the victimizer themselves. For example, a physically abused child becomes an adult who only engages in relationships with physically abusive partners.
Young girls who have been victims of abusive fathers sometimes find themselves in destructive relationships. It is not so much that the female victims of abuse seek out abusive boyfriends, as that some have never witnessed “normal” relationships and they have nothing to gauge what is abusive and what is not.
Young girls who have been victims of abusive fathers sometimes find themselves in destructive relationships. It is not so much that the female victims of abuse seek out abusive boyfriends, as that some have never witnessed “normal” relationships and they have nothing to gauge what is abusive and what is not.
In my perspective, drama queens (and drama "kings") are also trying to control the other person. Also, that they are not in control themselves. Since they are out of control, they control others by forcing someone else to go through the crap with them... I know I haven't explained it well, but I don't have time right at the moment...
QUOTE (Derek1148+Apr 13 2007, 04:28 PM)
Young girls who have been victims of abusive fathers sometimes find themselves in destructive relationships. It is not so much that the female victims of abuse seek out abusive boyfriends, as that some have never witnessed “normal” relationships and they have nothing to gauge what is abusive and what is not.
It is so much that they seek out abusive boyfriends, they do. This may not be conscious "thinking" type decisions, but overall they do seem to seek out abusive relationships. You are correct when you point out that have never witnessed normal relationships and that they have nothing or diminished capacity to guage by. The have learned an abnormal or undesired behavior as their image of the norm. This is the exact reason that they seek out abusive partners or become abusive themselves, they have learned to do it. They are seeking out what is normal for them. Again, if a person is able recognize this, they can change their behavior and learn new behavior.
It is so much that they seek out abusive boyfriends, they do. This may not be conscious "thinking" type decisions, but overall they do seem to seek out abusive relationships. You are correct when you point out that have never witnessed normal relationships and that they have nothing or diminished capacity to guage by. The have learned an abnormal or undesired behavior as their image of the norm. This is the exact reason that they seek out abusive partners or become abusive themselves, they have learned to do it. They are seeking out what is normal for them. Again, if a person is able recognize this, they can change their behavior and learn new behavior.
QUOTE (Rusty Shackleford+Apr 13 2007, 10:50 PM)
It is so much that they seek out abusive boyfriends, they do. This may not be conscious "thinking" type decisions, but overall they do seem to seek out abusive relationships. You are correct when you point out that have never witnessed normal relationships and that they have nothing or diminished capacity to guage by. The have learned an abnormal or undesired behavior as their image of the norm. This is the exact reason that they seek out abusive partners or become abusive themselves, they have learned to do it. They are seeking out what is normal for them. Again, if a person is able recognize this, they can change their behavior and learn new behavior.
I don’t believe the young female victim of abuse is looking for a boyfriend that will beat the hell out of her. However, I agree with you that the ability to recognize and understand what an abusive relationship is will ultimately help the victim avoid engaging in a destructive relationship.
I don’t believe the young female victim of abuse is looking for a boyfriend that will beat the hell out of her. However, I agree with you that the ability to recognize and understand what an abusive relationship is will ultimately help the victim avoid engaging in a destructive relationship.
QUOTE
I don’t believe the young female victim of abuse is looking for a boyfriend that will beat the hell out of her.
I don't necessarily believe that either, but then I am not claiming that they are actively looking for a "beater". It is all about what she has learned, specifically the patterns of behavior she has learned. In this example, the attributes of an abusive man are the same attributes that the abused woman is attracted to in a man. She chooses partners based on how she has learned that a "real man" behaves.
Of course, part of the problem here is that human behavior is very complex, so there aren't many exact mathematical formulas to explain every personality, there are too many contingent variables. So I am of course only speaking of generalities and majorities here, not dealing out hard and fast rules. When I say that the abused seek out abusive relationships, I am only speaking generally, in reality things can be much more complex. Most abuse victims do seem to seek out abusive relationships. Does this mean that a woman makes a decision to find a man who can beat her like Daddy did? No, most don't make that decision. Although some do, some people love the abuse and they admit it. Many abuse victims keep finding themselves in abusive relationships and they have no idea why. An objective observer can usually easily identify the problem, they are attracted to the wrong people or they regularly engage in behaviors that cause them to associate with abusive people. Then again, some abuse victims just move on to healthy relationships making a conscious effort never to go down that road again, some just get lucky.
Don't forget the "victim mentality". Some people just have a psychological need to be a victim. Mostly women, but some men too...
QUOTE ("THEY"+Apr 13 2007, 11:32 PM)
Don't forget the "victim mentality". Some people just have a psychological need to be a victim. Mostly women, but some men too...
"THEY',
Some victims of abuse do fall into the “victim mentality”. The level of abuse and the length of time the victim suffered the abuse are factors. Some abuse of children is so significant that a full recovery for the victim is unlikely. By being the victim the child receives attention and support. It is unfortunate that some cannot escape the “victim mentality”. But when you consider some of the horrible abuse some children are forced to endure, it is difficult to fault them for wanting the attention and support to continue forever (even into adulthood).
"THEY',
Some victims of abuse do fall into the “victim mentality”. The level of abuse and the length of time the victim suffered the abuse are factors. Some abuse of children is so significant that a full recovery for the victim is unlikely. By being the victim the child receives attention and support. It is unfortunate that some cannot escape the “victim mentality”. But when you consider some of the horrible abuse some children are forced to endure, it is difficult to fault them for wanting the attention and support to continue forever (even into adulthood).
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