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light in the tunnel
Would there be a way to design nano particles that can somehow change the wavelength that they reflect light? This would be like a type of ink or dye that changes color as a response when the frequency of an inaudible transmission was present. So you could paint a room once and then change the color to whatever you wanted by remote control.

Since Amazon developed that hand-held electronic book that uses actual ink in its LCD and isn't backlit, this seems like it could be a possibility for walls. Only to use LCD technology would require putting up large panels, which would have seams and probably couldn't be cut to fit.

So if some kind of nano particles could be designed that are suspended in paint, you could customize the color of things with a remote control or dial.
arpc_01
I don't know about nano particles, but they do have LCDs now that are paper thin and flexible. So eventually you'll be able to just get a bunch of smaller lcds and glue them to your wall.
Enthalpy
Paint that changes its colour with temperature already exists. Not even nanotech.
light in the tunnel
QUOTE (Enthalpy+Nov 2 2009, 11:45 PM)
Paint that changes its colour with temperature already exists. Not even nanotech.

Ok, but what if I want the room to be orange at 78 instead of red but I don't want to turn the thermostat down to 72? RC Nanopigmentation: coming soon at WalMart 21st century!
pooja
I am not sure If we can do that. Let me know if u folks have succeded in doing it...
maximus242
Yes its possible with nanotechnology. A number of places are working at this. In addition there is whats called quantum dots which have a spectrum of different colors.

Basically light color is based on frequency, all you have to do is change the frequency of the particle to change its color.
light in the tunnel
QUOTE (maximus242+Dec 4 2009, 06:06 PM)
Yes its possible with nanotechnology. A number of places are working at this. In addition there is whats called quantum dots which have a spectrum of different colors.

Basically light color is based on frequency, all you have to do is change the frequency of the particle to change its color.

I think you could also have a three-color system like with TVs or LED big screens. Then you just have to control the relative brightness of the three monochrome dye particles. Wouldn't that be easier than modulating the frequency of particles?
flyingbuttressman
QUOTE (light in the tunnel+Dec 4 2009, 01:11 PM)
I think you could also have a three-color system like with TVs or LED big screens. Then you just have to control the relative brightness of the three monochrome dye particles. Wouldn't that be easier than modulating the frequency of particles?

Slight problem with this idea.
Even if each "particle" was capable of displaying either different colors or different brightnesses, there is no way to coordinate them. The process of painting something doesn't allow for any kind of control circuit. Each "particle" would have to think for itself.

On the other hand, this would be plausible to do with wallpaper.
light in the tunnel
QUOTE (flyingbuttressman+Dec 4 2009, 06:59 PM)
Slight problem with this idea.
Even if each "particle" was capable of displaying either different colors or different brightnesses, there is no way to coordinate them. The process of painting something doesn't allow for any kind of control circuit. Each "particle" would have to think for itself.

On the other hand, this would be plausible to do with wallpaper.

I was thinking that all the nano-particles would have simple radio receivers to control them by remote. Then you would just need some inaudibly high-pitched frequency to tell the nanobots which color to display.

Wall paper is a good idea but the circuitry sounds like it would have to be planned. Plus wall paper has seems and is difficult to hang. Painting is much easier, imo.
flyingbuttressman
QUOTE (light in the tunnel+Dec 4 2009, 02:44 PM)
I was thinking that all the nano-particles would have simple radio receivers to control them by remote. Then you would just need some inaudibly high-pitched frequency to tell the nanobots which color to display.

Where exactly are these particles receiving power from? (nano batteries are not an option)
How does the controller know which particles are where?
What kind of binder would you use to keep all the nano particles together without covering them up?
What do you do with all the wasted particles that are hidden behind the binder and other nano particles?

Wallpaper is a much better option, and doesn't have any of those problems.
QUOTE
Wall paper is a good idea but the circuitry sounds like it would have to be planned.  Plus wall paper has seems and is difficult to hang.  Painting is much easier, imo.

I think I would take the wallpaper's cost savings and superior image quality over the ease of paint.
light in the tunnel
QUOTE (flyingbuttressman+Dec 4 2009, 07:55 PM)





are nano photovoltaics and rechargeable battery cells a possibility? If so they could harness and store light for energy.

QUOTE
How does the controller know which particles are where?

Why would the controller have to know the specific location of the particles? It just sends out a certain ultra high frequency pitch sound and the particles respond to that frequency with a certain color combination.

QUOTE (->
QUOTE
How does the controller know which particles are where?

Why would the controller have to know the specific location of the particles? It just sends out a certain ultra high frequency pitch sound and the particles respond to that frequency with a certain color combination.

What kind of binder would you use to keep all the nano particles together without covering them up?  What do you do with all the wasted particles that are hidden behind the binder and other nano particles?

I'm assuming that these particles will be easy to replicate and manufacture in mass quantities enough that you can coat the wall in them, suspended in some form of transparent or translucent polyurethane lacquer.

QUOTE
Wallpaper is a much better option, and doesn't have any of those problems.

I think I would take the wallpaper's cost savings and superior image quality over the ease of paint.


How would the wallpaper be made? Would it need an intricate network of circuitry to get power and signal to all the color particles? If so, it would probably require a large printer of some sort to embed the circuitry into the wallpaper.

If it was just a question of creating lots of conductive fibers that are spread out, which randomly connect with each other to form circuitry, why not just paint that directly onto the wall instead of using wallpaper?

QUOTE (->
QUOTE
Wallpaper is a much better option, and doesn't have any of those problems.

I think I would take the wallpaper's cost savings and superior image quality over the ease of paint.


How would the wallpaper be made? Would it need an intricate network of circuitry to get power and signal to all the color particles? If so, it would probably require a large printer of some sort to embed the circuitry into the wallpaper.

If it was just a question of creating lots of conductive fibers that are spread out, which randomly connect with each other to form circuitry, why not just paint that directly onto the wall instead of using wallpaper?

Where exactly are these particles receiving power from? (nano batteries are not an option)

I guess this answers my question at the beginning of this post. But why can't nano batteries be possible?
flyingbuttressman
QUOTE (light in the tunnel+Dec 4 2009, 04:26 PM)
are nano photovoltaics and rechargeable battery cells a possibility? If so they could harness and store light for energy.


Why would the controller have to know the specific location of the particles? It just sends out a certain ultra high frequency pitch sound and the particles respond to that frequency with a certain color combination.


I'm assuming that these particles will be easy to replicate and manufacture in mass quantities enough that you can coat the wall in them, suspended in some form of transparent or translucent polyurethane lacquer.



How would the wallpaper be made? Would it need an intricate network of circuitry to get power and signal to all the color particles? If so, it would probably require a large printer of some sort to embed the circuitry into the wallpaper.

If it was just a question of creating lots of conductive fibers that are spread out, which randomly connect with each other to form circuitry, why not just paint that directly onto the wall instead of using wallpaper?


I guess this answers my question at the beginning of this post. But why can't nano batteries be possible?

Are we talking about television paint or color-shifting paint?
light in the tunnel
QUOTE (flyingbuttressman+Dec 4 2009, 09:37 PM)
Are we talking about television paint or color-shifting paint?

I had something simple in mind where the nano particles would exhibit uniform behavior according to a certain frequency signal, i.e. 1 color for the whole wall.

TV paint is an interesting concept, though. If there was some way to get the particles to recognize their location, they could potentially act independently of each other, no?

This could probably be done by first painting the wall and then using some kind of scanning laser to program them according to location. Then each one could receive distinct per-pixel signal.
flyingbuttressman
QUOTE (light in the tunnel+Dec 4 2009, 04:48 PM)
I had something simple in mind where the nano particles would exhibit uniform behavior according to a certain frequency signal, i.e. 1 color for the whole wall.

Ok, I thought you were talking about television paint, which is completely impractical.
Color-shifting wallpaper could be accomplished with electronic paper technology:
Electronic Paper

As far as power goes, photovoltaics probably won't work because the wallpaper needs to be a color that is not black. Thermal energy would probably be a better solution.
light in the tunnel
QUOTE (flyingbuttressman+Dec 4 2009, 10:03 PM)
Ok, I thought you were talking about television paint, which is completely impractical.
Color-shifting wallpaper could be accomplished with electronic paper technology:
Electronic Paper

As far as power goes, photovoltaics probably won't work because the wallpaper needs to be a color that is not black. Thermal energy would probably be a better solution.

I think someone else already suggested electronic paper type technology.

Do you think room temperature would supply enough energy to power color particles?

Actually it might be if some kind of passive-dye system made it so that once a particular color configuration was achieved it would not rely on continuous power to maintain it, only to change it.

You would need to develop some kind of macro-molecule configuration that would change frequency on command.
maximus242
QUOTE (light in the tunnel+Dec 4 2009, 06:11 PM)
I think you could also have a three-color system like with TVs or LED big screens. Then you just have to control the relative brightness of the three monochrome dye particles. Wouldn't that be easier than modulating the frequency of particles?

Yes you could. Depends on what your trying to achieve. When talking about programmable matter your talking about something extremely small. Too small to have such a device. A single quantum dot would be the size of a catom - which is a programmable atom.

So that would not necessarily work for programmable matter per se (although if you were to scale up the size of catoms perhaps) but if you were seeking some of sort of 3d tv then that idea could work well.

In terms of some of the other things. Most of what you describe is already being worked on, it's called programmable matter.

In terms of particle organization, that is actually one of the easy parts. Carnegie Mellon University and Cambridge University both have done a fair bit of work on programming for the integration and control of thousands of individual particles.

In regards to the question about particle communication, there are a number of ways people are working on accomplishing this. You can look up smart dust for more info.

Also a lot of what is being described is being made far to difficult. What you are describing is relatively easy compared to what some scientists are trying to accomplish.

All you really need is a paint that changes color based off of some kind of input. You could just exploit chemical or physical properties that cause change in color. For example with quantum dots, the color changes with the size. Meaning you can have the exact same material and only by increasing the size of each dot you can change its color.

Also remember the human eye generalizes information, including color. Really it seems alls you need to do is have some kind of OLED based wallpaper.
light in the tunnel
QUOTE (maximus242+Dec 5 2009, 09:33 AM)
Yes you could. Depends on what your trying to achieve. When talking about programmable matter your talking about something extremely small. Too small to have such a device. A single quantum dot would be the size of a catom - which is a programmable atom.

So that would not necessarily work for programmable matter per se (although if you were to scale up the size of catoms perhaps) but if you were seeking some of sort of 3d tv then that idea could work well.

In terms of some of the other things. Most of what you describe is already being worked on, it's called programmable matter.

In terms of particle organization, that is actually one of the easy parts. Carnegie Mellon University and Cambridge University both have done a fair bit of work on programming for the integration and control of thousands of individual particles.

In regards to the question about particle communication, there are a number of ways people are working on accomplishing this. You can look up smart dust for more info.

Also a lot of what is being described is being made far to difficult. What you are describing is relatively easy compared to what some scientists are trying to accomplish.

All you really need is a paint that changes color based off of some kind of input. You could just exploit chemical or physical properties that cause change in color. For example with quantum dots, the color changes with the size. Meaning you can have the exact same material and only by increasing the size of each dot you can change its color.

Also remember the human eye generalizes information, including color. Really it seems alls you need to do is have some kind of OLED based wallpaper.

Thanks for the overview of nano developments. I'll have to do some googling to learn more about smart dust and the schools you mention.

That is interesting that particle size controls color. Is it possible to create variable-sized particles that change size on command?

Also, curse you for taking FBM's side in favor of wallpaper instead of paint:) Just kidding, it isn't really a competition I'm trying to win but it is funny that you came out in favor of his preference instead of mine. I hate hanging wallpaper. So tedious.
maximus242
Well the thing is, to do what you want to do using nanoscience requires years of research, to do what you want to do with wallpaper requires maybe one year of development.

With nanoscience most of the technology isnt there. Its all in the research stages and isnt showing signs of leaving that stage any time soon. There are the brightest minds in nanoscience trying to solve a lot of the problems you face, but until they are solved its going to be rather difficult for you.

I would say if your bent on the paint type application, your best bet would be some sort of biological LED particles that respond to say an rf signal by some kind of stimulation. Organic LED's or OLED for short are much more flexible. They are a synthesis of biology and electrical engineering.

Another idea is you might for example be able to use the color variation cells in a chameleon to change the color of the paint.
light in the tunnel
QUOTE (maximus242+Dec 5 2009, 05:26 PM)
Well the thing is, to do what you want to do using nanoscience requires years of research, to do what you want to do with wallpaper requires maybe one year of development.

With nanoscience most of the technology isnt there. Its all in the research stages and isnt showing signs of leaving that stage any time soon. There are the brightest minds in nanoscience trying to solve a lot of the problems you face, but until they are solved its going to be rather difficult for you.

I would say if your bent on the paint type application, your best bet would be some sort of biological LED particles that respond to say an rf signal by some kind of stimulation. Organic LED's or OLED for short are much more flexible. They are a synthesis of biology and electrical engineering.

Another idea is you might for example be able to use the color variation cells in a chameleon to change the color of the paint.

I hadn't thought of chameleon cells.

I know that these technologies are currently in development. I like discussing potential avenues for technological development not so much because I'm trying to consume the technology the day after tomorrow, but because it helps me learn more about what's currently going on in R&D to talk about it. Plus, I think that the more people think along with the technological developments that are occurring, the more impetus there is for smart people to forge ahead to break even more ground in the ground that is already being broken.
Capracus
Magnetochromatic Material Changes Color on Command

QUOTE
n the future, signs will be instantly rewritable and walls will change color at the flip of a switch. A research team at the University of California at Riverside has created a new magnetically activated, instantly and reversibly color-changing material with potentially groundbreaking applications. The technology is based on that used by colorful birds, beetles, and butterflies: instead of static pigments, the material employs "structural color," which depends on the interference effects of light.
http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2009...s-color-command
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