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Confused2
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_History_o...he_Roman_Empire

[ According to Gibbon ] .. the Roman Empire succumbed to barbarian invasions because of a loss of civic virtue among its citizens. They had become weak, outsourcing their duties to defend their Empire to barbarian mercenaries, who then became so numerous and ingrained that they were able to take over the Empire.

-C2.
Gorgeous
QUOTE (Confused2+May 26 2008, 10:20 PM)
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_History_o...he_Roman_Empire

[ According to Gibbon ] .. the Roman Empire succumbed to barbarian invasions because of a loss of civic virtue among its citizens. They had become weak, outsourcing their duties to defend their Empire to barbarian mercenaries, who then became so numerous and ingrained that they were able to take over the Empire.

-C2.

smile.gif

The Romans had become so self-centred and arrogant, they could not believe that they were as 'barbaric' as everyone else, and that their pretence of 'civility' was therefore a hypocritical sham!

Some changes happen veeeerrrrryyyy slowly, don't they?




g.
xtrmn8r
The Sequence of the Passing of a Civilization

QUOTE
"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always vote for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship."


"The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, those nations always progressed through the following sequence:


1. From bondage to spiritual faith;

2. From spiritual faith to great courage;

3. From courage to liberty;

4. From liberty to abundance;

5. From abundance to complacency;

6. From complacency to apathy;

7. From apathy to dependence;

8. From dependence back into bondage"


At which stage in this sequence do you believe our great nation is currently in? At which stage?


http://hubpages.com/hub/Stages-of-
Zarkov
QUOTE
The Romans had become so self-centred and arrogant, they could not believe that they were as 'barbaric' as everyone else, and that their pretence of 'civility' was therefore a hypocritical sham!


The USA



QUOTE (->
QUOTE
The Romans had become so self-centred and arrogant, they could not believe that they were as 'barbaric' as everyone else, and that their pretence of 'civility' was therefore a hypocritical sham!


The USA



At which stage in this sequence do you believe our great nation is currently in? At which stage?



QUOTE
8. From dependence back into bondage"


The bondage of madness
Sec
QUOTE (Zarkov+May 27 2008, 12:36 AM)
The bondage of madness

That just reminds me - how's the new straightjacket?


laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif
Zarkov
Spreading disgust, 'democracy" and 'religion' to subvert countries to "our way of living" ( in the muck)

The Western Civilisation is more than disgusting

Create discontent,..... hey guys join us in the rape of the world... destroy and pillage nature, all in the name of God...the golden calf!

Democracy... yea you run your own country but first listen to our deceitful propaganda... now you need a revolution, here's a gun, boy ya gonna go far !!!

Now I wonder which major power practices satanic worship!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/05/27/2256734.htm

QUOTE
A report by UK charity Save the Children says children are being sexually abused by peacekeepers and aid workers in parts of the world affected by conflict.

The report says the silence that surrounds the abuse is almost as shocking as the abuse itself.

It says children as young as six years old are being abused, raped and exploited by the very people who are supposed to be looking after them.

A 13-year-old girl near the Ivory Coast town of Moule described how 10 UN peacekeepers gang-raped her in a field near her home and left her bleeding, trembling and vomiting on the ground.

No action has been taken against the soldiers.

The report also found that aid workers have been sexually abusing both boys and girls.

The head of Save the Children in Ivory coast, Heather Carr, says the majority of abuses are unpunished or not reported because the victims are too scared or powerless to speak out.

"It's a minority of people but they are using their power to sexually exploit children," she said.

"The sort of things that go on are sex for food - children will do anything - the level of poverty here is very high and people are desperate, and children don't have the voice to report about this.

"I mean they're suffering sexual exploitation abuse in silence."

The United Nations has said it welcomes the report, which it will study closely.

- BBC


Land of hope and gory, ...vomit

Quantum_Conundrum
QUOTE (Gorgeous+May 26 2008, 06:28 PM)
smile.gif

The Romans had become so self-centred and arrogant, they could not believe that they were as 'barbaric' as everyone else, and that their pretence of 'civility' was therefore a hypocritical sham!

Some changes happen veeeerrrrryyyy slowly, don't they?




g.

Please people, don't compare Rome to America or modern Europe.


Rome held mass murder events as entertainment where citizens would go to watch mock wars where slaves were forced to murder one another.


I mean get real, you sound like Muslims or something, all that's missing is the "Kill the Great Satan America".


You know what, I'm the first person to criticize my country, and have even been banned from forums for doing so, but to compare America to the depravity of Rome is a joke.
Edward 3
I agree with Quantum_Conundrum that comparison of Europe or the U.S. with the Roman Empire is not valid. The more I read about Rome the more I realise that it was a horrible, debased society that, in reality, contributed little to the development of western civilization. However there are lessons to be learned to ensure we do not go down that route again - do you know, for example, that the Romans privatised the business of torturing badly behaved slaves? - could not help but be reminded of the american propensity for privatization and the outsourcing of torture to other countries - as in rendition!!
Interesting take on the subject in the book "Rubicon" by Tom Holland, described in a Sunday Telegraph review as "ideal bedside reading for George Bush"
Gorgeous
QUOTE (Quantum_Conundrum+May 28 2008, 01:15 PM)
Please people, don't compare Rome to America or modern Europe.


Rome held mass murder events as entertainment where citizens would go to watch mock wars where slaves were forced to murder one another.


I mean get real, you sound like Muslims or something, all that's missing is the "Kill the Great Satan America".


You know what, I'm the first person to criticize my country, and have even been banned from forums for doing so, but to compare America to the depravity of Rome is a joke.

Please people, do not misquote others for your own political gain. It makes you look SOOOOOOOOOOO ROMAN!!!! smile.gif (not to mention most certainly racist sad.gif )


It was your old 'mate' zarkov that joined the dots. wink.gif



My thoughts are that Empire-building is Empire-building, regardless of the 'details'. And it always crumbles from the inside anyway! - You must be one of the chief 'rhubarbs'! laugh.gif




g.
"THEY"
QUOTE (Quantum_Conundrum+May 28 2008, 06:15 AM)
Rome held mass murder events as entertainment where citizens would go to watch mock wars where slaves were forced to murder one another.

But this is modern day now. We are far more civilized.


Now we just murder each other with words on the internet!



And humans are supposed to be so much more advanced and intelligent............. HAH.
soundhertz
Nice thread C2, nice post xtrmn8r, can I get a kiss too g- I'm jealous of sapo.

We are between #6 and #7. If I may quote a past post of mine (due to laziness):

QUOTE

Are we a reflection of what governs us? There is little conscience in the governing body, and we have little political conscience in return. The lack of political integrity is so legion and pervading that we feel powerless against it. In combination with the lack of time to effect real change by virtue of having to be so 'busy', we crush under the weight and become, in steps, complacent, apathetic, despaired, and finally resigned, which undermines social conscience, strengthens powerful political centers, and fractures any potential solidarity.

If events so occur that our lives become second or even third world-like, I believe that apathy and complacency will begin to fall away. Anarchy would be the next step; hopefully we retain enough of our original American spirit to take the failing situation by the reins and do what needs to be done to rectify the situation. No political force is more potent than real solidarity. It is of such extreme strength that it can effect sweeping changes in the face of powerful organized resistance, think only of India.

I am of the belief that only a great event can effect positive changes in our current Zeitgeist. Something that affects us real time, and collectively, quite beyond 9/11. Something that greatly threatens our cherished dependence and greatly increases our available time. Even as recently as thirty years ago a change in our international agenda could have been reasonably accomplished but for our comfort, complacency, and dependence-fueled softness. Alas, no, we need a swift kick to inspire and remind us what our role is in our government, and that we have a role at all.

We keep riding the sinewave of history: fracture unity, create a vaccuum, and it fills with the progeny of irresponsibility. Be forced to reunite, wash out the trough till it sparkles again, and enjoy those fruits until their heredity fades in our memories and collective enervation again bears it's fruit. Such is the way of things.

Irrational centers of influence are mitigated by great events, but the healthiest way to vanquish them is not by force, but by teaching, one person at a time if need be. We may be our brother's keeper to some extent, but we are not the captain of their ship. How many strong, motivated, wise, and selfless people do we have? It's hard to say. I think those qualities are much more latent than active, as we spend most of our time working, and de-stressing from that work, trying to raise families with what little time is left over and keep our heads above the choppy waters. There are 300 million of us. How many teachers do we need to leave to our decendents the true substance, not just a flag and a song?


QUOTE (->
QUOTE

Are we a reflection of what governs us? There is little conscience in the governing body, and we have little political conscience in return. The lack of political integrity is so legion and pervading that we feel powerless against it. In combination with the lack of time to effect real change by virtue of having to be so 'busy', we crush under the weight and become, in steps, complacent, apathetic, despaired, and finally resigned, which undermines social conscience, strengthens powerful political centers, and fractures any potential solidarity.

If events so occur that our lives become second or even third world-like, I believe that apathy and complacency will begin to fall away. Anarchy would be the next step; hopefully we retain enough of our original American spirit to take the failing situation by the reins and do what needs to be done to rectify the situation. No political force is more potent than real solidarity. It is of such extreme strength that it can effect sweeping changes in the face of powerful organized resistance, think only of India.

I am of the belief that only a great event can effect positive changes in our current Zeitgeist. Something that affects us real time, and collectively, quite beyond 9/11. Something that greatly threatens our cherished dependence and greatly increases our available time. Even as recently as thirty years ago a change in our international agenda could have been reasonably accomplished but for our comfort, complacency, and dependence-fueled softness. Alas, no, we need a swift kick to inspire and remind us what our role is in our government, and that we have a role at all.

We keep riding the sinewave of history: fracture unity, create a vaccuum, and it fills with the progeny of irresponsibility. Be forced to reunite, wash out the trough till it sparkles again, and enjoy those fruits until their heredity fades in our memories and collective enervation again bears it's fruit. Such is the way of things.

Irrational centers of influence are mitigated by great events, but the healthiest way to vanquish them is not by force, but by teaching, one person at a time if need be. We may be our brother's keeper to some extent, but we are not the captain of their ship. How many strong, motivated, wise, and selfless people do we have? It's hard to say. I think those qualities are much more latent than active, as we spend most of our time working, and de-stressing from that work, trying to raise families with what little time is left over and keep our heads above the choppy waters. There are 300 million of us. How many teachers do we need to leave to our decendents the true substance, not just a flag and a song?


But this is modern day now. We are far more civilized.


Yes, we have football, and I can't wait for August! laugh.gif
excaza
Right, some things are different so a general comparison OBVIOUSLY can never happen.

Arrogance in leadership is arrogance, I don't care if they were more 'civilized' or not.
Zarkov
QUOTE
Rome held mass murder events as entertainment where citizens would go to watch mock wars where slaves were forced to murder one another.

LOL

no, we have in it our homes... for even kids to see

we have it in films, in news... all there is close up and colour and quadraphonic sound

soon even in holograms.... blood and guts and gore..... in ya face

and if that is not enough for you, get a gun and bring it to your school, mall

or get real, join the army to literately kill, rape and pillage in real time...... with no points lost

sick sick world.... the end is nigh...thank you GOD... I don't want my children to be any part of this world.... yuk

must go home soon.............
excaza
QUOTE (Zarkov+May 28 2008, 02:02 PM)
or get real, join the army to literately kill, rape and pillage in real time...... with no points lost

sick sick world.... the end is nigh...thank you GOD... I don't want my children to be any part of this world.... yuk

must go home soon.............

Good, put on your tinfoil hat and run along. The quoted text just lost you all credibility.
Zarkov
You must live in an Islamic world

Christian world's are full of violence as I described

How about posting your local TV guide.... LOL... latest films being screened ... ????

LOL
Gorgeous
QUOTE (soundhertz+May 28 2008, 05:12 PM)
can I get a kiss too g- I'm jealous of sapo.



True Friends

A long time ago in China there were two friends, one who played the harp skillfully and one who listened skillfully.

When the one played or sang about a mountain, the other would say: "I can see the mountain before us."

When the other played about water, the listener would exclaim: "Here is the running stream!"

But the listener fell sick and died. The first friend cut the strings of his harp and never played again. Since that time the cutting of harp strings has always been a sign of intimate friendship.





I send you this because whenever 'sound~hertz', you don't keep 'harping' on about it.


X



Sapo
Gorgeous, you just have to come to the Joint! smile.gif
excaza
QUOTE (Zarkov+May 28 2008, 04:21 PM)
You must live in an Islamic world

Christian world's are full of violence as I described

How about posting your local TV guide.... LOL... latest films being screened ... ????

LOL

Right, because the Bible is clean and flowery.

You're ignorant, go away
Gorgeous
QUOTE (Sapo+May 28 2008, 09:54 PM)
Gorgeous, you just have to come to the Joint! smile.gif


Hmmm, It might prove controversial? unsure.gif



g.
Quantum_Conundrum
We have ACTORS who pretend in works of FICTION in which usually a hero defeats a villian.


They had REAL PEOPLE who were usually FORCED to kill one another against their will.
Quantum_Conundrum
QUOTE ("THEY"+May 28 2008, 11:54 AM)
But this is modern day now. We are far more civilized.


Now we just murder each other with words on the internet!



And humans are supposed to be so much more advanced and intelligent............. HAH.

To me, the two things that are absolutely the most evil about modern western civilization are:


Moral relativity (so called "Subjective Truth")

People who subscribe to this belief seem to be able to justify anything at all. It really is a form of anarchy, but hey, with so many atheists running around these days, it makes perfect sense.

Paradoxically it somehow leads to the "Political Correctness" doctrine, whereby we cannot say anything negative about anything at all, lest we be labled an "extremist".


Abortion (other than to save the mother's life)
Some people, namely the ACLU (Anti-Christian Luciferian Union) and PETA, care more about the mis-guided "sexual freedom" or saving some dolphin or the Polar Bear than they do a human being.
Gorgeous
QUOTE (Quantum_Conundrum+May 29 2008, 12:04 AM)


They had REAL PEOPLE who were usually FORCED to kill one another against their will.

That would be almost exactly the same as all 'soldiers' everywhere to day, then?




QUOTE
We have ACTORS who pretend in works of FICTION in which usually a hero defeats a villian.


http://michaelscomments.files.wordpress.co...sC101021021.jpg




g.
Gorgeous
QUOTE (Quantum_Conundrum+May 29 2008, 12:14 AM)
To me, the two things that are absolutely the most evil about modern western civilization are:


Moral relativity (so called "Subjective Truth")

People who subscribe to this belief seem to be able to justify anything at all. It really is a form of anarchy, but hey, with so many atheists running around these days, it makes perfect sense.

Paradoxically it somehow leads to the "Political Correctness" doctrine, whereby we cannot say anything negative about anything at all, lest we be labled an "extremist".


Abortion (other than to save the mother's life)
Some people, namely the ACLU (Anti-Christian Luciferian Union) and PETA, care more about the mis-guided "sexual freedom" or saving some dolphin or the Polar Bear than they do a human being.

Belief in things that do not exist is a form of Cosmological anarchy. It resolves itself in the form of self-destruction, empirical evidence for which comes from 'above' ^^^



g.
Zarkov
QUOTE
We have ACTORS who pretend in works of FICTION in which usually a hero defeats a villian.


They had REAL PEOPLE who were usually FORCED to kill one another against their will.


and children...even adults.... believe that such observed anti-LIFE "theatrical" behaviour is OK.... they believe it is true and real people behave that way as NORMAL

The news ...real ???.... all the same ...whether in real life B4 your eyes or in "image form" on TV, film

the brain still processes the information...

Why do people cry in a sad movie, why get scared... why get excited....

LOL, you are a real fool to think what the brain sees/hears is not processed at its deepest meaning level

there is even a word for it

desensitised !!!!..... yep turn em'all into KILLERS>..never turn the other cheek...just give it back RIGHT in the guts

sick sick sick

An experiment
turn the sound up on your TV, and leave the room.... listen to the aggression in the voices of American programs... you don't have to view the images....its almost like having your parents at each other's throats... nice
excaza
QUOTE (Zarkov+May 28 2008, 10:25 PM)
An experiment
turn the sound up on your TV, and leave the room.... listen to the aggression in the voices of American programs... you don't have to view the images....its almost like having your parents at each other's throats... nice

Change the channel. There's plenty of bible-thumping channels with the Animated Adventures of Moses and such. Not your cup of tea? There's hundreds of channels without a lick of violence on them, turn to one. Don't like watching the news because it's 'intense' at times? Read a damn newspaper.

QUOTE
desensitised !!!!..... yep turn em'all into KILLERS>..never turn the other cheek...just give it back RIGHT in the guts

If you're dumb enough to want to do things you see on television you should be shot in the head, thrown out of a car, driven over, reversed over, and thrown in a lake.

erm...uh oh...television has turned me into a KILLER

After watching The Office, I really want to go and be regional manager of a company
After watching Lost, I really want to crash on a deserted island
After watching Scrubs, I want to be a doctor
After watching House, I want to be a sarcastic, genius doctor
After watching Sesame Street I want to grow real big and cover myself in yellow feathers.
After playing Mario Kart, I have an unshakable urge to throw turtle shells and banana peels at cars.

See the logic here?

rolleyes.gif

And before you say "it's not the same," yes it is. EXACTLY the same.
gmilam
QUOTE (Quantum_Conundrum+May 28 2008, 07:14 PM)
To me, the two things that are absolutely the most evil about modern western civilization are:


Moral relativity (so called "Subjective Truth")

People who subscribe to this belief seem to be able to justify anything at all. It really is a form of anarchy, but hey, with so many atheists running around these days, it makes perfect sense.

Our biggest fan of "subjective truth" around here is a Catholic... what does that tell ya?
xtrmn8r
QUOTE
Change the channel. There's plenty of bible-thumping channels with the Animated Adventures of Moses and such. Not your cup of tea? There's hundreds of channels without a lick of violence on them, turn to one. Don't like watching the news because it's 'intense' at times? Read a damn newspaper.


Better yet, IMO, turn the TV off and read a book. I haven't watched a television series in over 9 years. I don't think I've missed much.
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