QUOTE (metamars+Apr 15 2007, 12:31 AM)
We all know the buildings fell down. We also know that they did so quickly, and videos should allow us to determine approximate accelerations. Nothing controverial[sic] in these two sentences. But the context of this thread is to discriminate between CD and non-CD.
(1) Collapse initiation. I've been through this before. NCSTAR1-6D contains enough data to determine that when three walls wedged-in at floor 98 of WTC 1, the average DCR on the surviving and unbuckled core columns was about 2. This suffices to assure inelastic behavior such as buckling and connection failure.
(2) Progressive collapse. Using the Bazant & Verdure differential equation to find that resistive force which best fits NEU-FONZE's measurements gives answers which are in very good agreement with the data. Further, the crush-down times are in good agreement with the estimates of collapse times for WTC 1. (But, as shagster has noted, not for WTC 2.)
Since neither (1) nor (2) involve CD and there is no evidence of CD, I offer (1) and (2) as a good explanation. Although not a particularly detailed one, ignoring the tossing of exterior wall sections for hundreds of meters, etc.
(1) Collapse initiation. I've been through this before. NCSTAR1-6D contains enough data to determine that when three walls wedged-in at floor 98 of WTC 1, the average DCR on the surviving and unbuckled core columns was about 2. This suffices to assure inelastic behavior such as buckling and connection failure.
(2) Progressive collapse. Using the Bazant & Verdure differential equation to find that resistive force which best fits NEU-FONZE's measurements gives answers which are in very good agreement with the data. Further, the crush-down times are in good agreement with the estimates of collapse times for WTC 1. (But, as shagster has noted, not for WTC 2.)
Since neither (1) nor (2) involve CD and there is no evidence of CD, I offer (1) and (2) as a good explanation. Although not a particularly detailed one, ignoring the tossing of exterior wall sections for hundreds of meters, etc.
QUOTE (adoucette+Apr 14 2007, 10:16 PM)
You can tell how weak his arguments are by the amount of SCRIPTURE he quotes.
Too bad he ignores one of the key ones: "thou shalt not lie".
Arthur
Well, there is no way in Hades that is a brake light....
...and that was not filmed from an SUV---that indeed is an emergency vehicle of some sort....maybe with Andrew Card at the wheel whisking the President away.
Too bad he ignores one of the key ones: "thou shalt not lie".
Arthur
Well, there is no way in Hades that is a brake light....
...and that was not filmed from an SUV---that indeed is an emergency vehicle of some sort....maybe with Andrew Card at the wheel whisking the President away.
QUOTE (adoucette+Apr 14 2007, 05:17 PM)
Please, Quick, continue to TRUMPET this ALL OVER THE INTERNET.
Nothing makes the CTers look MORE FOOLISH then a FOOL.
Arthur
There's that beautiful picture again of that emergency truck -- thanks, doc.
On the contrary, you and the OCTs look foolish now.
On the recent video evidence on this board that proves explosions happened at the time WTC1 was brought down, NOT ONE OCT DEFENDER ATTACKED TO REFUTE IT.
You yourself couldn't address it.
Why? BECAUSE THERE IS NOTHING TO REFUTE IT WITH. The video is what it is.
Foolish, eh?
Take a hard look in the mirror.
9/11 was an inside job, the truth is coming out and nothing is going to stop it.
John 17:17
SANCTIFY THEM IN THE TRUTH
THY WORD IS TRUTH
QUOTE (NEU-FONZE+Apr 15 2007, 12:16 AM)
Hi David:
This is something I am working on. It's all about chemistry, as Chainsaw will tell you!
Sorry to be so cryptic but that's how it is these days....
Frank
Well, gosh... you should have absolutely NO PROBLEM the dealing with the less strenuous stuff first... 15 micron iron spheres in the WTC dust....
"Commercial-grade" thermate....
Either admit that OR BACK Chainsaw's explanation and call Professor Jones a fraud.
Using words like "cryptic" means nothing when you are residing in a den of OCT liars who won't back/refute each others assertions when they are busted in their lies!
This is something I am working on. It's all about chemistry, as Chainsaw will tell you!
Sorry to be so cryptic but that's how it is these days....
Frank
Well, gosh... you should have absolutely NO PROBLEM the dealing with the less strenuous stuff first... 15 micron iron spheres in the WTC dust....
"Commercial-grade" thermate....
Either admit that OR BACK Chainsaw's explanation and call Professor Jones a fraud.
Using words like "cryptic" means nothing when you are residing in a den of OCT liars who won't back/refute each others assertions when they are busted in their lies!
QUOTE (NEU-FONZE+Apr 14 2007, 11:56 PM)
None of the available combustibles could achieve those temperatures, correct?
Incorrect..
Well...well, Dr Frank Greening PhD...
The possibly parsing PhD....
I'm re-posting this to the defendrosie.com site, Dr Greening.... you've spoken to Professor Steven Jones????
Great! Splendid!
We'll keep Paul Watson...producer for Alex Jones informed and he can forward to Professor Jones
Dr Frank Greening...like fellow OCTer, Grumpy....you "could not"/"would not" hit the "quote" command button OPTING INSTEAD to hit the "add reply" command button,correct?
Perhaps you may not want the readership to see what you're perhaps failing to reply to, Dr Frank Greening?
The possibly parsing PhD
To all Rosie O'Donnell readers... Take a look at Dr. Frank Greening PhD's apparent conduct and draw your own conclusions... I'll hyperlink you all to the radio interview in the next post
940 degrees centigrade is 1742 degrees Fahrenheit instead of 2700 degrees Fahrenheit
Dr Frank Greening PhD...please, don't go anywhere!
The 15 micron diameter iron spheres are not such a "great mystery" after all.... you should have had Chainsaw next to you at that interview....
Dr Greeening,
a) Could you hyperlink us all at defendrosie.com to where you replied to Gordon Ross's critique of your analysis contained in the journalof911 studies?
Gordon Ross used YOUR figures, sir...he just extended your analysis out by what, 50 milliseconds?
b ) Dr Frank Greening...do you back with the full force of your professional repuation what your fellow OCTer, Grumpy stated...that regulatory code compliance to search for thermate was met with the introduction of thermate sniffing poodle dogs?
None of the other OCTers on this PHYSICS FORUM challenged Grumpy on his "intellectual dishonesty"...therefore with such a great cloud of physicists and chemists behind Grumpy...
..you yourself should be able to proudly say,
"Professor Steven Jones... you are a liar and a fraud, sir!
You mainatined the regualtory code was NOT met--- when I, Grumpy, and allll the other OCTer Physicist/Chemists maintain it was indeed met by the introduction of "thermate-sniffing" chihauha dogs."
Hey! Grumpy and Arthur...see how I'll drag Dr. Greening into your dishonesty IF YOU ENGAGE IN IT and your fellow OCTers don't denounce your conduct.
Now Dr Greening's reputation is going to be plastered over the Rosie site SPECIFICALLY for the purpose of having Alex Jones, Steven Jones and Gordon Ross see what Frank Greening may be willing to overlook in the way of your conduct when he thinks others might not be watching.
To Rosie readers...want to partially help get the News Media to lay off of Rosie?
The USS Liberty photos I'll show you will do most of the trick, but also....
Fire back by ensuring that Paul at watson@prisonplanet.com makes sure Professor Steven Jones sees what Dr. Frank Greening may be doing when he might think no one is looking at his fellow OCTers.
Dr. Frank Greening could JUST AS EASILY have replied to the post ..... by hitting the "quote" command button AS OPPOSED TO the "add reply" command button.
Dr Frank Greening may have hit "add reply" because he perhaps may not want you all to see what he may not want to answer;to wit,
Prior to laboratory analysis.... the physical manifestation presented to those fire experts and civil engineers out in the rubble of WTC 7 WOULD HAVE BEEN "molten steel" that had re-cooled to a solid.
1)Partial lengths of steel beams
2)Re-cooled SOLID from what had once been molten at the end of the steel beam where the evaporation HAD BEEN incorrectly adduced.
Notice how they neglected to do the Fahrenheit conversion EVEN THOUGH all my figures were in Fahrenheit...... Oh, sure--- Celsius is used in scientific calculations but they may have known they were dealing with a partial Yank audience, also
Dr Frank Greening... please provide the question that we at defendrosie.com can have Paul Watson ask Alex Jones to ask Steven Jones
1) about how the terminal ends of the steel beams would have appeared
and
2) the lower Fahrenheit temp you say would cause molten liquefaction(higher or lower than 1742 degrees?...what would Professor Jones say?
and
3) what available combustibles burnt at 1742 degrees Fahrenheit or higher(I saw 940 Celsius and 1000 degrees Celsius...which is it,Dr Frank?
c) 15 micron diameter iron spheres, Dr Greening... you're "intelligent thermite" is FAR MORE INTELLIGENT than anyone first suspected ...
..it was SO INTELLIGENT that it ACTUALLY created "commercial grade/quality" thermate???
Is that what you are saying, High IQ Intelligent Thermate?
d)Dr Frank Greening.... Chainsaw provide an answer to the 15 micron spheres of iron....
Why don't youAND COUPLE publicly back his explanation IT with public charges that Professor Steven Jones is a fraud/liar?
If not, demand to know why Chainsaw offered that as an explanation for the "commercial quality/grade" thermate?
Here was Chainsaw's explanation...
State publicly that it annihilates Professor Jones 15 micron assertions and proves Steven Jones to be a fraud/liar
Prior to laboratory analysis.... the physical manifestation presented to those fire experts and civil engineers out in the rubble of WTC 7 WOULD HAVE BEEN "molten steel" that had re-cooled to a solid.
1)Partial lengths of steel beams
2)Re-cooled SOLID from what had once been molten at the end of the steel beam where the evaporation HAD BEEN incorrectly adduced.
Notice how they neglected to do the Fahrenheit conversion EVEN THOUGH all my figures were in Fahrenheit...... Oh, sure--- Celsius is used in scientific calculations but they may have known they were dealing with a partial Yank audience, also
Dr Frank Greening... please provide the question that we at defendrosie.com can have Paul Watson ask Alex Jones to ask Steven Jones
1) about how the terminal ends of the steel beams would have appeared
and
2) the lower Fahrenheit temp you say would cause molten liquefaction(higher or lower than 1742 degrees?...what would Professor Jones say?
and
3) what available combustibles burnt at 1742 degrees Fahrenheit or higher(I saw 940 Celsius and 1000 degrees Celsius...which is it,Dr Frank?
c) 15 micron diameter iron spheres, Dr Greening... you're "intelligent thermite" is FAR MORE INTELLIGENT than anyone first suspected ...
..it was SO INTELLIGENT that it ACTUALLY created "commercial grade/quality" thermate???
Is that what you are saying, High IQ Intelligent Thermate?
d)Dr Frank Greening.... Chainsaw provide an answer to the 15 micron spheres of iron....
Why don't youAND COUPLE publicly back his explanation IT with public charges that Professor Steven Jones is a fraud/liar?
If not, demand to know why Chainsaw offered that as an explanation for the "commercial quality/grade" thermate?
Here was Chainsaw's explanation...
State publicly that it annihilates Professor Jones 15 micron assertions and proves Steven Jones to be a fraud/liar
Blood contains Iron combined with an Ion carrier, The result is iron converted to iron oxide, when it reacts with carbon in the cells that converts it to carbon dioxide, and back to iron.
I wonder what Ion carrier was in the building?
Do not mix these with iron, or steel trust me do not mix these!
e) Dr Frank Greening.... those liars at 911research state that the blueprints are supposed to be publicly available documents.
Will you be the first OCTer to encourage your other OCTer physicists to have the defenrosie.com readers ENCOURAGE Rosie O'Donnell , on national TV, to take a television camera down to the Port Authority to get those blueprints?
Palpatane...Mr. Physiscist, Palpatane!!!!
Why have you not encouraged the defendrosie.com readers to have Rosie get those prints that are supposed to be publicly accessible
It's not like you guys would ACTUALLY WANT the Port Authority to keep withholding them, correct?
Amazing that the 4 major networks Rosie talks about have not sought out those blueprints AND CHALLENGED why the networks have not backed the family members who want these publicly accessible blueprints released, correct?
Do I have permission to add the names of :
David B Benson--- Physicist
Dr Frank Greening PhD--- Chemist
Palpatane--- Physicist
..to those who'd encourage Rosie, on National TV, to go down to the Port Authority, and get those blueprints?
What about it OCTers???? Join in, you don't want to appear scared, do you?
Incorrect..
Well...well, Dr Frank Greening PhD...
The possibly parsing PhD....
I'm re-posting this to the defendrosie.com site, Dr Greening.... you've spoken to Professor Steven Jones????
Great! Splendid!
We'll keep Paul Watson...producer for Alex Jones informed and he can forward to Professor Jones
Dr Frank Greening...like fellow OCTer, Grumpy....you "could not"/"would not" hit the "quote" command button OPTING INSTEAD to hit the "add reply" command button,correct?
Perhaps you may not want the readership to see what you're perhaps failing to reply to, Dr Frank Greening?
The possibly parsing PhD
To all Rosie O'Donnell readers... Take a look at Dr. Frank Greening PhD's apparent conduct and draw your own conclusions... I'll hyperlink you all to the radio interview in the next post
940 degrees centigrade is 1742 degrees Fahrenheit instead of 2700 degrees Fahrenheit
Dr Frank Greening PhD...please, don't go anywhere!
The 15 micron diameter iron spheres are not such a "great mystery" after all.... you should have had Chainsaw next to you at that interview....
Dr Greeening,
a) Could you hyperlink us all at defendrosie.com to where you replied to Gordon Ross's critique of your analysis contained in the journalof911 studies?
Gordon Ross used YOUR figures, sir...he just extended your analysis out by what, 50 milliseconds?
b ) Dr Frank Greening...do you back with the full force of your professional repuation what your fellow OCTer, Grumpy stated...that regulatory code compliance to search for thermate was met with the introduction of thermate sniffing poodle dogs?
None of the other OCTers on this PHYSICS FORUM challenged Grumpy on his "intellectual dishonesty"...therefore with such a great cloud of physicists and chemists behind Grumpy...
..you yourself should be able to proudly say,
"Professor Steven Jones... you are a liar and a fraud, sir!
You mainatined the regualtory code was NOT met--- when I, Grumpy, and allll the other OCTer Physicist/Chemists maintain it was indeed met by the introduction of "thermate-sniffing" chihauha dogs."
Hey! Grumpy and Arthur...see how I'll drag Dr. Greening into your dishonesty IF YOU ENGAGE IN IT and your fellow OCTers don't denounce your conduct.
Now Dr Greening's reputation is going to be plastered over the Rosie site SPECIFICALLY for the purpose of having Alex Jones, Steven Jones and Gordon Ross see what Frank Greening may be willing to overlook in the way of your conduct when he thinks others might not be watching.
To Rosie readers...want to partially help get the News Media to lay off of Rosie?
The USS Liberty photos I'll show you will do most of the trick, but also....
Fire back by ensuring that Paul at watson@prisonplanet.com makes sure Professor Steven Jones sees what Dr. Frank Greening may be doing when he might think no one is looking at his fellow OCTers.
Dr. Frank Greening could JUST AS EASILY have replied to the post ..... by hitting the "quote" command button AS OPPOSED TO the "add reply" command button.
Dr Frank Greening may have hit "add reply" because he perhaps may not want you all to see what he may not want to answer;to wit,
QUOTE
ALSO>>>
The "steel members that appear to have been partially evaporated".... hmmmm ! yes!-- I've seen the micrograph which shows no "evaporation" occurred.
So let's take a look at the terminal end's [where the engineers/experts incorrectly assumed evaporation had occurred]
So the terminal end of that/those steel members where the evaporation HAD THOUGHT to have occurred would have presented themselves physically as "re-cooled molten steel", correct.
SOLID warms to LIQUID warms to GAS
GAS cools to LIQUID cools to SOLID
...except for the "sublimation" effect of "dry ice"--- SOLID warms to GAS without first converting to a liquid state.
Steel/Iron is not subject to the effects of "sublimation".
So the terminal ends of those steel members WHERE THE EVAPORATION was incorrectly thought to have occurred [looked like what?].
The physical manifestation presented to those fire experts and engineers WOULD HAVE BEEN "molten steel" that had re-cooled to a solid.
1)Partial lengths of steel beams
2)Re-cooled SOLID from what had once been molten [liquid] at the end of the steel beam where the evaporation HAD BEEN incorrectly adduced.
Approximately above 2700 degrees to melt AND also below 2700degrees to re-cool into a solid.
None of the available combustibles in WTC 7 could achieve those temperatures,correct?
The "steel members that appear to have been partially evaporated".... hmmmm ! yes!-- I've seen the micrograph which shows no "evaporation" occurred.
So let's take a look at the terminal end's [where the engineers/experts incorrectly assumed evaporation had occurred]
So the terminal end of that/those steel members where the evaporation HAD THOUGHT to have occurred would have presented themselves physically as "re-cooled molten steel", correct.
SOLID warms to LIQUID warms to GAS
GAS cools to LIQUID cools to SOLID
...except for the "sublimation" effect of "dry ice"--- SOLID warms to GAS without first converting to a liquid state.
Steel/Iron is not subject to the effects of "sublimation".
So the terminal ends of those steel members WHERE THE EVAPORATION was incorrectly thought to have occurred [looked like what?].
The physical manifestation presented to those fire experts and engineers WOULD HAVE BEEN "molten steel" that had re-cooled to a solid.
1)Partial lengths of steel beams
2)Re-cooled SOLID from what had once been molten [liquid] at the end of the steel beam where the evaporation HAD BEEN incorrectly adduced.
Approximately above 2700 degrees to melt AND also below 2700degrees to re-cool into a solid.
None of the available combustibles in WTC 7 could achieve those temperatures,correct?
Prior to laboratory analysis.... the physical manifestation presented to those fire experts and civil engineers out in the rubble of WTC 7 WOULD HAVE BEEN "molten steel" that had re-cooled to a solid.
1)Partial lengths of steel beams
2)Re-cooled SOLID from what had once been molten at the end of the steel beam where the evaporation HAD BEEN incorrectly adduced.
Notice how they neglected to do the Fahrenheit conversion EVEN THOUGH all my figures were in Fahrenheit...... Oh, sure--- Celsius is used in scientific calculations but they may have known they were dealing with a partial Yank audience, also
Dr Frank Greening... please provide the question that we at defendrosie.com can have Paul Watson ask Alex Jones to ask Steven Jones
1) about how the terminal ends of the steel beams would have appeared
and
2) the lower Fahrenheit temp you say would cause molten liquefaction(higher or lower than 1742 degrees?...what would Professor Jones say?
and
3) what available combustibles burnt at 1742 degrees Fahrenheit or higher(I saw 940 Celsius and 1000 degrees Celsius...which is it,Dr Frank?
c) 15 micron diameter iron spheres, Dr Greening... you're "intelligent thermite" is FAR MORE INTELLIGENT than anyone first suspected
.....it was SO INTELLIGENT that it ACTUALLY created "commercial grade/quality" thermate???
Is that what you are saying, High IQ Intelligent Thermate?
d)Dr Frank Greening.... Chainsaw provide an answer to the 15 micron spheres of iron....
Why don't youAND COUPLE publicly back his explanation IT with public charges that Professor Steven Jones is a fraud/liar?
If not, demand to know why Chainsaw offered that as an explanation for the "commercial quality/grade" thermate?
Here was Chainsaw's explanation...
State publicly that it annihilates Professor Jones 15 micron assertions and proves Steven Jones to be a fraud/liar
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| ALSO>>> The "steel members that appear to have been partially evaporated".... hmmmm ! yes!-- I've seen the micrograph which shows no "evaporation" occurred. So let's take a look at the terminal end's [where the engineers/experts incorrectly assumed evaporation had occurred] So the terminal end of that/those steel members where the evaporation HAD THOUGHT to have occurred would have presented themselves physically as "re-cooled molten steel", correct. SOLID warms to LIQUID warms to GAS GAS cools to LIQUID cools to SOLID ...except for the "sublimation" effect of "dry ice"--- SOLID warms to GAS without first converting to a liquid state. Steel/Iron is not subject to the effects of "sublimation". So the terminal ends of those steel members WHERE THE EVAPORATION was incorrectly thought to have occurred [looked like what?]. The physical manifestation presented to those fire experts and engineers WOULD HAVE BEEN "molten steel" that had re-cooled to a solid. 1)Partial lengths of steel beams 2)Re-cooled SOLID from what had once been molten [liquid] at the end of the steel beam where the evaporation HAD BEEN incorrectly adduced. Approximately above 2700 degrees to melt AND also below 2700degrees to re-cool into a solid. None of the available combustibles in WTC 7 could achieve those temperatures,correct? |
Prior to laboratory analysis.... the physical manifestation presented to those fire experts and civil engineers out in the rubble of WTC 7 WOULD HAVE BEEN "molten steel" that had re-cooled to a solid.
1)Partial lengths of steel beams
2)Re-cooled SOLID from what had once been molten at the end of the steel beam where the evaporation HAD BEEN incorrectly adduced.
Notice how they neglected to do the Fahrenheit conversion EVEN THOUGH all my figures were in Fahrenheit...... Oh, sure--- Celsius is used in scientific calculations but they may have known they were dealing with a partial Yank audience, also
Dr Frank Greening... please provide the question that we at defendrosie.com can have Paul Watson ask Alex Jones to ask Steven Jones
1) about how the terminal ends of the steel beams would have appeared
and
2) the lower Fahrenheit temp you say would cause molten liquefaction(higher or lower than 1742 degrees?...what would Professor Jones say?
and
3) what available combustibles burnt at 1742 degrees Fahrenheit or higher(I saw 940 Celsius and 1000 degrees Celsius...which is it,Dr Frank?
c) 15 micron diameter iron spheres, Dr Greening... you're "intelligent thermite" is FAR MORE INTELLIGENT than anyone first suspected
.....it was SO INTELLIGENT that it ACTUALLY created "commercial grade/quality" thermate???
Is that what you are saying, High IQ Intelligent Thermate?
d)Dr Frank Greening.... Chainsaw provide an answer to the 15 micron spheres of iron....
Why don't youAND COUPLE publicly back his explanation IT with public charges that Professor Steven Jones is a fraud/liar?
If not, demand to know why Chainsaw offered that as an explanation for the "commercial quality/grade" thermate?
Here was Chainsaw's explanation...
State publicly that it annihilates Professor Jones 15 micron assertions and proves Steven Jones to be a fraud/liar
Blood contains Iron combined with an Ion carrier, The result is iron converted to iron oxide, when it reacts with carbon in the cells that converts it to carbon dioxide, and back to iron.
I wonder what Ion carrier was in the building?
Do not mix these with iron, or steel trust me do not mix these!
e) Dr Frank Greening.... those liars at 911research state that the blueprints are supposed to be publicly available documents.
Will you be the first OCTer to encourage your other OCTer physicists to have the defenrosie.com readers ENCOURAGE Rosie O'Donnell , on national TV, to take a television camera down to the Port Authority to get those blueprints?
Palpatane...Mr. Physiscist, Palpatane!!!!
Why have you not encouraged the defendrosie.com readers to have Rosie get those prints that are supposed to be publicly accessible
It's not like you guys would ACTUALLY WANT the Port Authority to keep withholding them, correct?
Amazing that the 4 major networks Rosie talks about have not sought out those blueprints AND CHALLENGED why the networks have not backed the family members who want these publicly accessible blueprints released, correct?
Do I have permission to add the names of :
David B Benson--- Physicist
Dr Frank Greening PhD--- Chemist
Palpatane--- Physicist
..to those who'd encourage Rosie, on National TV, to go down to the Port Authority, and get those blueprints?
What about it OCTers???? Join in, you don't want to appear scared, do you?
So Dr Greening,
Chainsaw's explanation accounts for the creation of "commercial quality/grade" thermate?
Chainsaw's explanation accounts for the creation of "commercial quality/grade" thermate?
QUOTE (Capracus+Apr 14 2007, 05:47 PM)
Your right Craig, I didn't analyze the 15 minute segment as closely as I should have. After looking at other versions of the same video, I found out that the radio broadcast was being played over a radio at the Hoboken location, I assumed that it was dubbed in like the camera shake video. That said, it still doesn't show the origin of the sounds heard at the Hoboken site. Like I assumed an origin for sounds, the makers of this video are doing the same thing. There were fighter jets flying in the area which could have caused sonic booms, or some other source in the Hoboken area could have caused the sounds.
"Sonic booms"? Rick Siegel was there and believes, and what the whole point of this particular audio segment in the video is, that massive, explosive rumbles were heard and verified scientifically by the full sound analysis done.
To think the sounds heard were from sonic booms, especially in view of the timing of these sounds, does not make sense. It's reminiscent of the 9/11 Commission and NIST, how the Commission didn't mention WTC7, and how NIST didn't go into the collapse sequence because (don't laugh) they said it was obvious from the photographic evidence -- how ridiculous.
Now that I have taken a second look at your video, have you bothered to look at the video segment that I referred you to?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5...inute+wtc&hl=en
At 19:38 in this video the north tower begins to collapses. If you go back one minute and listen all the way up to the collapse you'll notice that there are no signs of explosions or sounds of explosions. How do you explain this discrepancy in relation to the Hoboken video? This video was shot within 2000 feet of the towers, not two miles away in New Jersey. Take your own advice and don't reply until you check out this video.
Yes, I had watched it, but you are mistaken about 19:38 being the start of the collapse.
19:38 is when "Oh, God" is heard {we don't know why this was said}, then there is a break in the video, and then it resumes at 19:42 and we see WTC1 is already fallen down an approximate third of its height.
This video is edited throughout by splicing, and there is no opportunity to hear the explosion before the collapse because it happened between edits.
However, there is no editing with "9/11 Eyewitness" during this particular period, and you can hear all the massive explosions. You should listen to the part of the video BEFORE the audio analysis segment. If you go to the 25 minute mark, you can see & hear the part where explosions occurred before WTC2 was brought down. "Massive" is the proper word to describe all these sounds heard nearly two miles away.
Yes, I had watched it, but you are mistaken about 19:38 being the start of the collapse.
19:38 is when "Oh, God" is heard {we don't know why this was said}, then there is a break in the video, and then it resumes at 19:42 and we see WTC1 is already fallen down an approximate third of its height.
This video is edited throughout by splicing, and there is no opportunity to hear the explosion before the collapse because it happened between edits.
However, there is no editing with "9/11 Eyewitness" during this particular period, and you can hear all the massive explosions. You should listen to the part of the video BEFORE the audio analysis segment. If you go to the 25 minute mark, you can see & hear the part where explosions occurred before WTC2 was brought down. "Massive" is the proper word to describe all these sounds heard nearly two miles away.
And then there is the unedited camera shake video:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8...+collapse&hl=en
Where are the sounds of explosions in this video?
Here are two videos of the same event from two different locations, but with different audios. I don't know. Can you explain it?
Nevertheless, I believe "9/11 Eyewitness" is accurate, including its audio, of what it captured that day, and the sound analysis in it is extremely compelling in showing 9/11 was an inside job.
The two shortest verses in the Bible:
JESUS WEPT
and
REJOICE ALWAYS
"Sonic booms"? Rick Siegel was there and believes, and what the whole point of this particular audio segment in the video is, that massive, explosive rumbles were heard and verified scientifically by the full sound analysis done.
To think the sounds heard were from sonic booms, especially in view of the timing of these sounds, does not make sense. It's reminiscent of the 9/11 Commission and NIST, how the Commission didn't mention WTC7, and how NIST didn't go into the collapse sequence because (don't laugh) they said it was obvious from the photographic evidence -- how ridiculous.
"Sonic booms"? Rick Siegel was there and believes, and what the whole point of this particular audio segment in the video is, that massive, explosive rumbles were heard and verified scientifically by the full sound analysis done.
To think the sounds heard were from sonic booms, especially in view of the timing of these sounds, does not make sense. It's reminiscent of the 9/11 Commission and NIST, how the Commission didn't mention WTC7, and how NIST didn't go into the collapse sequence because (don't laugh) they said it was obvious from the photographic evidence -- how ridiculous.
QUOTE
Now that I have taken a second look at your video, have you bothered to look at the video segment that I referred you to?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5...inute+wtc&hl=en
At 19:38 in this video the north tower begins to collapses. If you go back one minute and listen all the way up to the collapse you'll notice that there are no signs of explosions or sounds of explosions. How do you explain this discrepancy in relation to the Hoboken video? This video was shot within 2000 feet of the towers, not two miles away in New Jersey. Take your own advice and don't reply until you check out this video.
Yes, I had watched it, but you are mistaken about 19:38 being the start of the collapse.
19:38 is when "Oh, God" is heard {we don't know why this was said}, then there is a break in the video, and then it resumes at 19:42 and we see WTC1 is already fallen down an approximate third of its height.
This video is edited throughout by splicing, and there is no opportunity to hear the explosion before the collapse because it happened between edits.
However, there is no editing with "9/11 Eyewitness" during this particular period, and you can hear all the massive explosions. You should listen to the part of the video BEFORE the audio analysis segment. If you go to the 25 minute mark, you can see & hear the part where explosions occurred before WTC2 was brought down. "Massive" is the proper word to describe all these sounds heard nearly two miles away.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
Now that I have taken a second look at your video, have you bothered to look at the video segment that I referred you to? http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5...inute+wtc&hl=en At 19:38 in this video the north tower begins to collapses. If you go back one minute and listen all the way up to the collapse you'll notice that there are no signs of explosions or sounds of explosions. How do you explain this discrepancy in relation to the Hoboken video? This video was shot within 2000 feet of the towers, not two miles away in New Jersey. Take your own advice and don't reply until you check out this video. |
Yes, I had watched it, but you are mistaken about 19:38 being the start of the collapse.
19:38 is when "Oh, God" is heard {we don't know why this was said}, then there is a break in the video, and then it resumes at 19:42 and we see WTC1 is already fallen down an approximate third of its height.
This video is edited throughout by splicing, and there is no opportunity to hear the explosion before the collapse because it happened between edits.
However, there is no editing with "9/11 Eyewitness" during this particular period, and you can hear all the massive explosions. You should listen to the part of the video BEFORE the audio analysis segment. If you go to the 25 minute mark, you can see & hear the part where explosions occurred before WTC2 was brought down. "Massive" is the proper word to describe all these sounds heard nearly two miles away.
And then there is the unedited camera shake video:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8...+collapse&hl=en
Where are the sounds of explosions in this video?
Here are two videos of the same event from two different locations, but with different audios. I don't know. Can you explain it?
Nevertheless, I believe "9/11 Eyewitness" is accurate, including its audio, of what it captured that day, and the sound analysis in it is extremely compelling in showing 9/11 was an inside job.
The two shortest verses in the Bible:
JESUS WEPT
and
REJOICE ALWAYS
YAWN
Arthur
Arthur
QUOTE (adoucette+Apr 14 2007, 10:08 PM)
YAWN
Arthur
Take a pill.
Arthur
Take a pill.
QUOTE (adoucette+Apr 12 2007, 09:32 PM)
What's funny is CT'ers think something is going on in the Tower that is strong enough to shake this remote building that the camera is on, but this same force doesn't shake the towers.
Must be that new INVISIVIBE.
Arthur
Isn't that a matter of resonance. The camera can shake on a tripod without visible shaking of buildings.
Must be that new INVISIVIBE.
Arthur
Isn't that a matter of resonance. The camera can shake on a tripod without visible shaking of buildings.
QUOTE (Capracus+Apr 13 2007, 01:50 PM)
At 19:38, the collapse of the north tower begins. You can go back a minute and listen all the way up to the collapse, and not a hint of thunder, or a mention of it by the camera operators.
Now for some deja vu. Which account is most factual? The one across the bay in New Jersey? The one across the river in Brooklyn? Or, the one across the street from ground zero?
Capracus,
The Bob and Bri movie only contains half collapses, probably he stopped filming and put it on when it happened. A tremendous sound, don't you think ? At 2 miles away you will certainly hear that. with a delay of course. I still haven't mailed Rick Siegel about it, would like to do it.
Now for some deja vu. Which account is most factual? The one across the bay in New Jersey? The one across the river in Brooklyn? Or, the one across the street from ground zero?
Capracus,
The Bob and Bri movie only contains half collapses, probably he stopped filming and put it on when it happened. A tremendous sound, don't you think ? At 2 miles away you will certainly hear that. with a delay of course. I still haven't mailed Rick Siegel about it, would like to do it.
QUOTE (quicknthedead+Apr 15 2007, 03:42 AM)
"Sonic booms"? Rick Siegel was there and believes, and what the whole point of this particular audio segment in the video is, that massive, explosive rumbles were heard and verified scientifically by the full sound analysis done.
To think the sounds heard were from sonic booms, especially in view of the timing of these sounds, does not make sense. It's reminiscent of the 9/11 Commission and NIST, how the Commission didn't mention WTC7, and how NIST didn't go into the collapse sequence because (don't laugh) they said it was obvious from the photographic evidence -- how ridiculous.
Sonic booms, how reticules. At 39:10 in your video, about a minute after the collapse of WTC 1, what do we hear, could that be the noise of a jet? Not a commercial airliner, cause we know they've been grounded at this point. Sounds like a jet fighter to me.
QUOTE
Yes, I had watched it, but you are mistaken about 19:38 being the start of the collapse.
19:38 is when "Oh, God" is heard {we don't know why this was said}, then there is a break in the video, and then it resumes at 19:42 and we see WTC1 is already fallen down an approximate third of its height.
I'm sure he said "Oh My God" because Jesus just walked into the room, and then coincidentally we see the tower collapsing. Maybe the edit was simply for foul language. There is a news broadcast in the background and the exact time could be matched to it.19:38 is when "Oh, God" is heard {we don't know why this was said}, then there is a break in the video, and then it resumes at 19:42 and we see WTC1 is already fallen down an approximate third of its height.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| Yes, I had watched it, but you are mistaken about 19:38 being the start of the collapse. 19:38 is when "Oh, God" is heard {we don't know why this was said}, then there is a break in the video, and then it resumes at 19:42 and we see WTC1 is already fallen down an approximate third of its height. |
I'm sure he said "Oh My God" because Jesus just walked into the room, and then coincidentally we see the tower collapsing. Maybe the edit was simply for foul language. There is a news broadcast in the background and the exact time could be matched to it.
This video is edited throughout by splicing, and there is no opportunity to hear the explosion before the collapse because it happened between edits.
This video is edited throughout by splicing, and there is no opportunity to hear the explosion before the collapse because it happened between edits.
Something as significant as a thunderous explosion and they want to edit it out?
..and yet once more you have failed to mention "15 micron diameter iron spheres".....
You had no problem responding/replying before... but now that I have POINTED OUT the contradiction between "your explanation" and "Greening's "one of the great mysteries"..
...you are RANTING and RAVING and SCREAMING(favorite OCTer terms) to produce Jones work or advance my own thoeries.
15 micron diameter iron spheres
15 micron diameter iron spheres
15 micron diameter iron spheres
"one of the great mysteries" as Dr Frank Greening stated on the radio interview?
OR
easily explained by the answer YOU YOURSELF HAVE already offered and are now attempting to wiggle away from by saying produce Professor Jones papers or advance your oown theories...
No, no...old chum... I'm talking about what you've already replied to and are now trying to wiggle away from.
I think you made a specious claim BASED SOLELY on Dr Greening not rushing to your defense by saying, "Tally Ho, old chaps... I was totally wrong! .... I do soever wish I had taken Chainsaw along with me on that radio interview...
...Chainsaw's explanation is absolutely correct! ...The presence of 15 micron iron spheres is no "great mystery" after all as I Dr. frank Greening previously stated and I back that with the full force of my professional reputation...
I, Dr Frank Greening, now wish to advance Chainsaw's explanation to prove that YOU, Professor Steven Jones are both a "fraud" and a "liar" and I back such a statement using Chainsaw's explanation and now...
..wish to proclaim LOUDLY TO THE WORLD that 15 micron diameter iron spheres do not establish the presence of "commercially prepared thermate".
Chainsaw... you've been busted in a specious reply to the 15 micron diameter sphere post of mine...
I've got you by the snout like that Mountain Man had Hollywood Actor, Ned Beatty by in the movie, "Deliverance".... now "skwealll lika' piggg!"
"come on, piggy...skwealll!"
...and in your next post, tell Dr Frank Greening how he should have properly responded to the 15 micron diameter iron sphere presence by cutting/pasting from your reply to my post...
..otherwise--- you're running away from your own words/lies
"skwealll lika' pig!"
Hey, Chainsaw! This is how Ned Beatty looked in that movie when that hillbilly has Ned kneeling on all fours...first he looked like this
and then he looked like this 
The great mystery is not the spiracles but the fuel necessary to create them and how it was ignited, DA.
It is up to your gods Dr. Jones and Dr Ross to actually prove there is no other source of fuel in the building capable of igniting and forming the spiracles and they have failed to do so.
Your Ideas are simply to simplistic to be worth much notice!
If you wish to worship your gods then I shall not stop you, I do not debate religions much.
Dr Greening..is this correct? Hyperlink me to where you have responded to this in the past, please. Did Gordon Ross use your own arguments, contentions..... etc?
Dr Greening..is this correct? Hyperlink me to where you have responded to this in the past, please. Did Gordon Ross use your own arguments, contentions..... etc?
Dr. Greening has not disproved the logic and conclusions of my article, but has in fact reinforced the most important conclusion: that collapse would have been arrested at an early stage.
Say it isn't so, Dr Frank Greening...better yet, hyperlink the readership to where you have already written to Gordon Ross to tell him that it isn't so
Further doubt has been cast on gravity-driven collapse using the analysis Dr. Greening has provided in reference to the pulverisation of the concrete.
Oh m'goshhh! Surely there must be something you can hyperlink the readership to where you publicly disputed that Ross took your own figures and analyses AND BEAT YOU over the head with them.
Finding that hyperlink is perhaps another one of the "great mysteries" you talked about, Dr Greening?
Oh m'goshhh! Surely there must be something you can hyperlink the readership to where you publicly disputed that Ross took your own figures and analyses AND BEAT YOU over the head with them.
Finding that hyperlink is perhaps another one of the "great mysteries" you talked about, Dr Greening?
Combining this with our knowledge of the theoretical minimum collapse time having regard ony to momentum transfer, it is shown that a collapse time of 17.5 seconds, is the theoretical minimum collapse time having regard only to momentum transfers and the concrete pulverisation.
Is that true? Using your own figures?
This doesn't get any worse does it, Dr Greening... let's hope not as YOU and I plow further ahead into the reading
This timing contrarily does not take regard of the loss of effective mass that would be present due to the pulverisation and the ejection of concrete pieces outside the area where they play a role in promulgating the collapse.
Dr Greening ... I think it's going to get worse
You may not want to be giving any further radio interviews, sir... nor write any more papers... They will do you no good; you can only injure yourself further
Dr Greening ... I think it's going to get worse
You may not want to be giving any further radio interviews, sir... nor write any more papers... They will do you no good; you can only injure yourself further
Having regard to this and the other energies involved, the theoretical minimum collapse time can be seen to be approaching double that of the figures given for the collapse timing in official reports, even with no account taken of the energy demand from the distortion and destruction wrought to the steel superstructures.
Ah, Newton, still my favorite Physorg conspiracy guy!
So much unlike that Moby *** character posting here of late.
"Aye, toil as we may, we all sleep at last in the field.
Sleep? Aye, and rust amid the greenness....."
QUOTE
However, there is no editing with "9/11 Eyewitness" during this particular period, and you can hear all the massive explosions. You should listen to the part of the video BEFORE the audio analysis segment. If you go to the 25 minute mark, you can see & hear the part where explosions occurred before WTC2 was brought down. "Massive" is the proper word to describe all these sounds heard nearly two miles away.
Only half of these sounds don't coincide with any known visual action, and the other half, if they are the sound of the collapse, have nothing to do with explosions. QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| However, there is no editing with "9/11 Eyewitness" during this particular period, and you can hear all the massive explosions. You should listen to the part of the video BEFORE the audio analysis segment. If you go to the 25 minute mark, you can see & hear the part where explosions occurred before WTC2 was brought down. "Massive" is the proper word to describe all these sounds heard nearly two miles away. |
Only half of these sounds don't coincide with any known visual action, and the other half, if they are the sound of the collapse, have nothing to do with explosions.
Here are two videos of the same event from two different locations, but with different audios. I don't know. Can you explain it?
Here are two videos of the same event from two different locations, but with different audios. I don't know. Can you explain it?
No, we have three audios, and two of them have no evidence of explosive sounds. Explain that.
QUOTE
Nevertheless, I believe "9/11 Eyewitness" is accurate, including its audio, of what it captured that day, and the sound analysis in it is extremely compelling in showing 9/11 was an inside job.
The only thing it documented was that some loud noises were heard in Hoboken that day, not necessarily anywhere else. QUOTE (einsteen+Apr 15 2007, 09:45 AM)
Capracus,
The Bob and Bri movie only contains half collapses, probably he stopped filming and put it on when it happened. A tremendous sound, don't you think ? At 2 miles away you will certainly hear that. with a delay of course. I still haven't mailed Rick Siegel about it, would like to do it.
Einsteen, it does seem a little odd the way the movie was edited. And you may be correct about not filming at one or both of the collapse initiations. I guess the only way to find out would be to contact Bob and Bri about their editing. The more I look at this video, the less confidence I have in it's value as far as this subject is concerned. I'm going to keep looking for other videos.
The Bob and Bri movie only contains half collapses, probably he stopped filming and put it on when it happened. A tremendous sound, don't you think ? At 2 miles away you will certainly hear that. with a delay of course. I still haven't mailed Rick Siegel about it, would like to do it.
Einsteen, it does seem a little odd the way the movie was edited. And you may be correct about not filming at one or both of the collapse initiations. I guess the only way to find out would be to contact Bob and Bri about their editing. The more I look at this video, the less confidence I have in it's value as far as this subject is concerned. I'm going to keep looking for other videos.
I saw that Rick Siegel even has his own board, I think I will sign up in the feature to ask him a little bit about those sounds etc
ps. I also saw he had the koran on his website, I hope he is no muslim, makes him biased...
ps. I also saw he had the koran on his website, I hope he is no muslim, makes him biased...
QUOTE (kahlmyishmael+Apr 15 2007, 02:15 AM)
Well, gosh... you should have absolutely NO PROBLEM the dealing with the less strenuous stuff first... 15 micron iron spheres in the WTC dust....
"Commercial-grade" thermate....
Either admit that OR BACK Chainsaw's explanation and call Professor Jones a fraud.
Using words like "cryptic" means nothing when you are residing in a den of OCT liars who won't back/refute each others assertions when they are busted in their lies!
The only thing the particles spiracles is evidence of is high temperatures, above the point were Iron Oxide melts they in fact may not even be steel but iron oxide as the test do not show whether they are iron or an oxide.
PS. I do not speak for DR. Greening, but some one should explain the law of gravity to Dr. Jones as it relates to fluid dynamics in pooled metals.
A Pan has an edge a wall that gives substantial reinforcement to the outer edge of molten aluminum, in such a situation you can not form a hydrogen reaction between aluminum because you will only cool and reinforce the one exposed surface.
PS. I attack the message not the messenger.
Oxidation is a Chemical reaction after all, even in aluminum.
YOU kahlmyishmael, seem not to understand the simplistic stuff.
Just as DR. Ross does not understand Pearl Harbor.
"Commercial-grade" thermate....
Either admit that OR BACK Chainsaw's explanation and call Professor Jones a fraud.
Using words like "cryptic" means nothing when you are residing in a den of OCT liars who won't back/refute each others assertions when they are busted in their lies!
The only thing the particles spiracles is evidence of is high temperatures, above the point were Iron Oxide melts they in fact may not even be steel but iron oxide as the test do not show whether they are iron or an oxide.
PS. I do not speak for DR. Greening, but some one should explain the law of gravity to Dr. Jones as it relates to fluid dynamics in pooled metals.
A Pan has an edge a wall that gives substantial reinforcement to the outer edge of molten aluminum, in such a situation you can not form a hydrogen reaction between aluminum because you will only cool and reinforce the one exposed surface.
PS. I attack the message not the messenger.
Oxidation is a Chemical reaction after all, even in aluminum.
YOU kahlmyishmael, seem not to understand the simplistic stuff.
Just as DR. Ross does not understand Pearl Harbor.
QUOTE (Chainsaw,+Apr 15 2007, 12:20 AM)
Chemistry is the Key to life Frank, that is what most people do not consider.
You can not live without Chemistry.
...and 15 micron diameter iron spheres...what are they the key to, Chainsaw?
"intelligent thermite" with an IQ far higher than previously assumed?
Let's fashion a statement from your reply to the 15 micron iron sphere post AND HAVE DR. Frank Greening admit that it was not such a "great mystery" after all...that he wished he had had you with him on that radio interview...
...and that he, Dr. Frank Greening, is now publicly calling Professor Steven Jones a "fraud " and a "liar" for maintaining that 15 micron diameter spheres within the WTC dust...
...were evidence of "commercial quality/grade" thermate!
If your answer was so great, why would Dr. Frank Greening fail to make such an admission of "no great mystery after all" COUPLED WITH the fraud/liar accusation against Steven Jones?
You can not live without Chemistry.
...and 15 micron diameter iron spheres...what are they the key to, Chainsaw?
"intelligent thermite" with an IQ far higher than previously assumed?
Let's fashion a statement from your reply to the 15 micron iron sphere post AND HAVE DR. Frank Greening admit that it was not such a "great mystery" after all...that he wished he had had you with him on that radio interview...
...and that he, Dr. Frank Greening, is now publicly calling Professor Steven Jones a "fraud " and a "liar" for maintaining that 15 micron diameter spheres within the WTC dust...
...were evidence of "commercial quality/grade" thermate!
If your answer was so great, why would Dr. Frank Greening fail to make such an admission of "no great mystery after all" COUPLED WITH the fraud/liar accusation against Steven Jones?
QUOTE (kahlmyishmael+Apr 15 2007, 01:48 PM)
...and 15 micron diameter iron spheres...what are they the key to, Chainsaw?
"intelligent thermite" with an IQ far higher than previously assumed?
Let's fashion a statement from your reply to the 15 micron iron sphere post AND HAVE DR. Frank Greening admit that it was not such a "great mystery" after all...that he wished he had had you with him on that radio interview...
...and that he, Dr. Frank Greening, is now publicly calling Professor Steven Jones a "fraud " and a "liar" for maintaining that 15 micron diameter spheres within the WTC dust...
...were evidence of "commercial quality/grade" thermate!
If your answer was so great, why would Dr. Frank Greening fail to make such an admission of "no great mystery after all" COUPLED WITH the fraud/liar accusation against Steven Jones?
If I want to be on the radio or on TV. I do not need Dr. Greening for that, because all I have to do is call my agent.
In fact I have turned down interviews in the resent months to concentrate on other endeavors.
What is a mystery about the carbon boil process all that it requires is molten metal which I have believed was at the World Trade Center all along.
That does not mean however that I believe in thermate, fairy tails.
All natural causes must be eliminated first, and that has not been done.
PS. I have also seen DR. Jones evidence, and it is evidence of a chemical reaction that can occur naturally. If you would like to repost his evidence from the samples I will go over it, however it is really a big waste of time.
Every element he found associated with steel is a byproduct of the manufacturing process I believe.
Following Dr. Jones test results and leaping to the concussion that he found thermate is like taking 1+1, and coming up with 572, it just does not logically add up.
"intelligent thermite" with an IQ far higher than previously assumed?
Let's fashion a statement from your reply to the 15 micron iron sphere post AND HAVE DR. Frank Greening admit that it was not such a "great mystery" after all...that he wished he had had you with him on that radio interview...
...and that he, Dr. Frank Greening, is now publicly calling Professor Steven Jones a "fraud " and a "liar" for maintaining that 15 micron diameter spheres within the WTC dust...
...were evidence of "commercial quality/grade" thermate!
If your answer was so great, why would Dr. Frank Greening fail to make such an admission of "no great mystery after all" COUPLED WITH the fraud/liar accusation against Steven Jones?
If I want to be on the radio or on TV. I do not need Dr. Greening for that, because all I have to do is call my agent.
In fact I have turned down interviews in the resent months to concentrate on other endeavors.
What is a mystery about the carbon boil process all that it requires is molten metal which I have believed was at the World Trade Center all along.
That does not mean however that I believe in thermate, fairy tails.
All natural causes must be eliminated first, and that has not been done.
PS. I have also seen DR. Jones evidence, and it is evidence of a chemical reaction that can occur naturally. If you would like to repost his evidence from the samples I will go over it, however it is really a big waste of time.
Every element he found associated with steel is a byproduct of the manufacturing process I believe.
Following Dr. Jones test results and leaping to the concussion that he found thermate is like taking 1+1, and coming up with 572, it just does not logically add up.
QUOTE (einsteen+Apr 15 2007, 04:07 AM)
Isn't that a matter of resonance. The camera can shake on a tripod without visible shaking of buildings.
A tripod is DESIGNED to be stable.
That's the POINT.
It isn't going to vibrate unless the building it is standing on is also SHAKING.
THAT Building is certainly not going to SHAKE if the building that is supposedly transmitting this vibration to it isn't ALSO VISIBLY SHAKING.
But its NOT.
Arthur
A tripod is DESIGNED to be stable.
That's the POINT.
It isn't going to vibrate unless the building it is standing on is also SHAKING.
THAT Building is certainly not going to SHAKE if the building that is supposedly transmitting this vibration to it isn't ALSO VISIBLY SHAKING.
But its NOT.
Arthur
notsoquick
No, just the liars(example: you). Everyone can see that there is no reflection seen in the back window of that BMW, just it's third brake light(hint: while many(if not most) fire trucks are red, not everything that is red is a firetruck, brake lights are red too).
The Havel video also shows how dishonest and just plain wrong you were in your and Ross's paper about explosions prior to impacts. In fact that continuous video timeline completely destroys your argument and illustrates only your foolishness and gullability.
Then, again, we could all use some entertainment. Between your specteral firetruck in the back window, you complete ineptitude at reading seismic charts and your clumsy, false and deliberately faked audio tracks you are the biggest joke on these fori.
Grumpy
QUOTE
Have you noticed he also likes to call people liars a lot, which is, BTW, the hallmark of a less-than-average shill.
No, just the liars(example: you). Everyone can see that there is no reflection seen in the back window of that BMW, just it's third brake light(hint: while many(if not most) fire trucks are red, not everything that is red is a firetruck, brake lights are red too).
The Havel video also shows how dishonest and just plain wrong you were in your and Ross's paper about explosions prior to impacts. In fact that continuous video timeline completely destroys your argument and illustrates only your foolishness and gullability.
Then, again, we could all use some entertainment. Between your specteral firetruck in the back window, you complete ineptitude at reading seismic charts and your clumsy, false and deliberately faked audio tracks you are the biggest joke on these fori.
Grumpy
QUOTE (Chainsaw,+Apr 15 2007, 02:00 PM)
If I want to be on the radio or on TV. I do not need Dr. Greening for that, because all I have to do is call my agent.
In fact I have turned down interviews in the resent months to concentrate on other endeavors.
What is a mystery about the carbon boil process all that it requires is molten metal which I have believed was at the World Trade Center all along.
That does not mean however that I believe in thermate, fairy tails.
All natural causes must be eliminated first, and that has not been done.
PS. I have also seen DR. Jones evidence, and it is evidence of a chemical reaction that can occur naturally. If you would like to repost his evidence from the samples I will go over it, however it is really a big waste of time.
Every element he found associated with steel is a byproduct of the manufacturing process I believe.
Following Dr. Jones test results and leaping to the concussion that he found thermate is like taking 1+1, and coming up with 572, it just does not logically add up.
I think this is the third or fourth time that you have avoided the phrase, "15 micron diameter iron spheres" in the WTC dust...
...which Dr. Greening stated was one of the "great mysteries".
Has nothing to do with your sidestep about calling your agent.
Dr Greening's "great mystery" , according to the motif presented by you, is no "great mystery" at all.
Therefore, Dr. Greening should have absolutely NO PROBLEM stating, "i wish I had Chainsaw with me on that radio interview.... jolly silly that I didn't, old chaps....
Chainsaw's answer demonstratively establishes that you are BOTH a "fraud" and a "liar" Professor Jones...
...when you state that 15 micron diameter iron spheres establish the use of "commercial quality/grade" thermate
Tally ho and cheerio, everyone... I back Chainsaw's statement of the 15 micron iron spheres with the full force of my professional repuation AND FURTHER would like to reiterate that Professor Jones is both a "fraud" and a "liar".
You have not encouraged Dr Greening to say as much
Dr Greening has not agreed with your explanation.
...and on this forum... NEITHER OF YOU have either "admitted" nor "denied" that 15 micron diameter iron spheres establish the use of "commercially-prepared thermate"
Fashion a statemnet ADDRESSED to Dr. Greening as how he should reply to Steven Jones about what 15 micron diameter iron spheres in the WTC dust ESTABLISH about the use of commercially-prepared thermate.
...and tell Dr Greening that he was wrong when he stated it was "one of the great mysteries" on that radio interview.
Again... I have not seen the phrase "15 micron diameter iron spheres" in any of the replies by you two.
Provide a statement, Chainsaw about what "15 micron diameter iron spheres" establish/disestablish regarding the utilization of "commercially prepared thermate" that Dr Greening can agree to back with the full force of his reputation...
...and then have him explain why he would have ever stated in the first place that it was "one of the great mysteries"
In fact I have turned down interviews in the resent months to concentrate on other endeavors.
What is a mystery about the carbon boil process all that it requires is molten metal which I have believed was at the World Trade Center all along.
That does not mean however that I believe in thermate, fairy tails.
All natural causes must be eliminated first, and that has not been done.
PS. I have also seen DR. Jones evidence, and it is evidence of a chemical reaction that can occur naturally. If you would like to repost his evidence from the samples I will go over it, however it is really a big waste of time.
Every element he found associated with steel is a byproduct of the manufacturing process I believe.
Following Dr. Jones test results and leaping to the concussion that he found thermate is like taking 1+1, and coming up with 572, it just does not logically add up.
I think this is the third or fourth time that you have avoided the phrase, "15 micron diameter iron spheres" in the WTC dust...
...which Dr. Greening stated was one of the "great mysteries".
Has nothing to do with your sidestep about calling your agent.
Dr Greening's "great mystery" , according to the motif presented by you, is no "great mystery" at all.
Therefore, Dr. Greening should have absolutely NO PROBLEM stating, "i wish I had Chainsaw with me on that radio interview.... jolly silly that I didn't, old chaps....
Chainsaw's answer demonstratively establishes that you are BOTH a "fraud" and a "liar" Professor Jones...
...when you state that 15 micron diameter iron spheres establish the use of "commercial quality/grade" thermate
Tally ho and cheerio, everyone... I back Chainsaw's statement of the 15 micron iron spheres with the full force of my professional repuation AND FURTHER would like to reiterate that Professor Jones is both a "fraud" and a "liar".
You have not encouraged Dr Greening to say as much
Dr Greening has not agreed with your explanation.
...and on this forum... NEITHER OF YOU have either "admitted" nor "denied" that 15 micron diameter iron spheres establish the use of "commercially-prepared thermate"
Fashion a statemnet ADDRESSED to Dr. Greening as how he should reply to Steven Jones about what 15 micron diameter iron spheres in the WTC dust ESTABLISH about the use of commercially-prepared thermate.
...and tell Dr Greening that he was wrong when he stated it was "one of the great mysteries" on that radio interview.
Again... I have not seen the phrase "15 micron diameter iron spheres" in any of the replies by you two.
Provide a statement, Chainsaw about what "15 micron diameter iron spheres" establish/disestablish regarding the utilization of "commercially prepared thermate" that Dr Greening can agree to back with the full force of his reputation...
...and then have him explain why he would have ever stated in the first place that it was "one of the great mysteries"
QUOTE (kahlmyishmael+Apr 15 2007, 04:19 PM)
I think this is the third or fourth time that you have avoided the phrase, "15 micron diameter iron spheres" in the WTC dust...
...which Dr. Greening stated was one of the "great mysteries".
Has nothing to do with your sidestep about calling your agent.
Dr Greening's "great mystery" , according to the motif presented by you, is no "great mystery" at all.
Therefore, Dr. Greening should have absolutely NO PROBLEM stating, "i wish I had Chainsaw with me on that radio interview.... jolly silly that I didn't, old chaps....
Chainsaw's answer demonstratively establishes that you are BOTH a "fraud" and a "liar" Professor Jones...
...when you state that 15 micron diameter iron spheres establish the use of "commercial quality/grade" thermate
Tally ho and cheerio, everyone... I back Chainsaw's statement of the 15 micron iron spheres with the full force of my professional repuation AND FURTHER would like to reiterate that Professor Jones is both a "fraud" and a "liar".
You have not encouraged Dr Greening to say as much
Dr Greening has not agreed with your explanation.
...and on this forum... NEITHER OF YOU have either "admitted" nor "denied" that 15 micron diameter iron spheres establish the use of "commercially-prepared thermate"
Fashion a statemnet ADDRESSED to Dr. Greening as how he should reply to Steven Jones about what 15 micron diameter iron spheres in the WTC dust ESTABLISH about the use of commercially-prepared thermate.
...and tell Dr Greening that he was wrong when he stated it was "one of the great mysteries" on that radio interview.
Again... I have not seen the phrase "15 micron diameter iron spheres" in any of the replies by you two.
Provide a statement, Chainsaw about what "15 micron diameter iron spheres" establish/disestablish regarding the utilization of "commercially prepared thermate" that Dr Greening can agree to back with the full force of his reputation...
...and then have him explain why he would have ever stated in the first place that it was "one of the great mysteries"
YOU think that DR. Greening is required to agree with me, that is indeed a joke!
He has his own mind and I have mine, two separate individuals.
Please propose how you believe the particles were created and how they relate to the abnormalities seen on Sept. 11/2001 if you can!
I would like to hear your theories on this!
Are is BS. all you can spout?
I am not a controlled Worshiper of Dr. Greening as you are of Dr. Ross, and Dr. Jones.
If you wish to worship your gods then by all means do so I would never try to stop you from practicing your Religion.
...which Dr. Greening stated was one of the "great mysteries".
Has nothing to do with your sidestep about calling your agent.
Dr Greening's "great mystery" , according to the motif presented by you, is no "great mystery" at all.
Therefore, Dr. Greening should have absolutely NO PROBLEM stating, "i wish I had Chainsaw with me on that radio interview.... jolly silly that I didn't, old chaps....
Chainsaw's answer demonstratively establishes that you are BOTH a "fraud" and a "liar" Professor Jones...
...when you state that 15 micron diameter iron spheres establish the use of "commercial quality/grade" thermate
Tally ho and cheerio, everyone... I back Chainsaw's statement of the 15 micron iron spheres with the full force of my professional repuation AND FURTHER would like to reiterate that Professor Jones is both a "fraud" and a "liar".
You have not encouraged Dr Greening to say as much
Dr Greening has not agreed with your explanation.
...and on this forum... NEITHER OF YOU have either "admitted" nor "denied" that 15 micron diameter iron spheres establish the use of "commercially-prepared thermate"
Fashion a statemnet ADDRESSED to Dr. Greening as how he should reply to Steven Jones about what 15 micron diameter iron spheres in the WTC dust ESTABLISH about the use of commercially-prepared thermate.
...and tell Dr Greening that he was wrong when he stated it was "one of the great mysteries" on that radio interview.
Again... I have not seen the phrase "15 micron diameter iron spheres" in any of the replies by you two.
Provide a statement, Chainsaw about what "15 micron diameter iron spheres" establish/disestablish regarding the utilization of "commercially prepared thermate" that Dr Greening can agree to back with the full force of his reputation...
...and then have him explain why he would have ever stated in the first place that it was "one of the great mysteries"
YOU think that DR. Greening is required to agree with me, that is indeed a joke!
He has his own mind and I have mine, two separate individuals.
Please propose how you believe the particles were created and how they relate to the abnormalities seen on Sept. 11/2001 if you can!
I would like to hear your theories on this!
Are is BS. all you can spout?
I am not a controlled Worshiper of Dr. Greening as you are of Dr. Ross, and Dr. Jones.
If you wish to worship your gods then by all means do so I would never try to stop you from practicing your Religion.
QUOTE (Chainsaw+,Apr 15 2007, 04:55 PM)
YOU think that DR. Greening is required to agree with me, that is indeed a joke!
He has his own mind and I have mine, two separate individuals.
Please propose how you believe the particles were created and how they relate to the abnormalities seen on Sept. 11/2001 if you can!
I would like to hear your theories on this!
Are is BS. all you can spout?
I am not a controlled Worshiper of Dr. Greening as you are of Dr. Ross, and Dr. Jones.
If you wish to worship your gods then by all means do so I would never try to stop you from practicing your Religion.
..and yet once more you have failed to mention "15 micron diameter iron spheres".....
You had no problem responding/replying before... but now that I have POINTED OUT the contradiction between "your explanation" and "Greening's "one of the great mysteries"..
...you are RANTING and RAVING and SCREAMING(favorite OCTer terms) to produce Jones work or advance my own thoeries.
15 micron diameter iron spheres
15 micron diameter iron spheres
15 micron diameter iron spheres
"one of the great mysteries" as Dr Frank Greening stated on the radio interview?
OR
easily explained by the answer YOU YOURSELF HAVE already offered and are now attempting to wiggle away from by saying produce Professor Jones papers or advance your oown theories...
No, no...old chum... I'm talking about what you've already replied to and are now trying to wiggle away from.
I think you made a specious claim BASED SOLELY on Dr Greening not rushing to your defense by saying, "Tally Ho, old chaps... I was totally wrong! .... I do soever wish I had taken Chainsaw along with me on that radio interview...
...Chainsaw's explanation is absolutely correct! ...The presence of 15 micron iron spheres is no "great mystery" after all as I Dr. frank Greening previously stated and I back that with the full force of my professional reputation...
I, Dr Frank Greening, now wish to advance Chainsaw's explanation to prove that YOU, Professor Steven Jones are both a "fraud" and a "liar" and I back such a statement using Chainsaw's explanation and now...
..wish to proclaim LOUDLY TO THE WORLD that 15 micron diameter iron spheres do not establish the presence of "commercially prepared thermate".
[removed]
He has his own mind and I have mine, two separate individuals.
Please propose how you believe the particles were created and how they relate to the abnormalities seen on Sept. 11/2001 if you can!
I would like to hear your theories on this!
Are is BS. all you can spout?
I am not a controlled Worshiper of Dr. Greening as you are of Dr. Ross, and Dr. Jones.
If you wish to worship your gods then by all means do so I would never try to stop you from practicing your Religion.
..and yet once more you have failed to mention "15 micron diameter iron spheres".....
You had no problem responding/replying before... but now that I have POINTED OUT the contradiction between "your explanation" and "Greening's "one of the great mysteries"..
...you are RANTING and RAVING and SCREAMING(favorite OCTer terms) to produce Jones work or advance my own thoeries.
15 micron diameter iron spheres
15 micron diameter iron spheres
15 micron diameter iron spheres
"one of the great mysteries" as Dr Frank Greening stated on the radio interview?
OR
easily explained by the answer YOU YOURSELF HAVE already offered and are now attempting to wiggle away from by saying produce Professor Jones papers or advance your oown theories...
No, no...old chum... I'm talking about what you've already replied to and are now trying to wiggle away from.
I think you made a specious claim BASED SOLELY on Dr Greening not rushing to your defense by saying, "Tally Ho, old chaps... I was totally wrong! .... I do soever wish I had taken Chainsaw along with me on that radio interview...
...Chainsaw's explanation is absolutely correct! ...The presence of 15 micron iron spheres is no "great mystery" after all as I Dr. frank Greening previously stated and I back that with the full force of my professional reputation...
I, Dr Frank Greening, now wish to advance Chainsaw's explanation to prove that YOU, Professor Steven Jones are both a "fraud" and a "liar" and I back such a statement using Chainsaw's explanation and now...
..wish to proclaim LOUDLY TO THE WORLD that 15 micron diameter iron spheres do not establish the presence of "commercially prepared thermate".
[removed]
Kallmeishmael
You're done, goodbye.
You're done, goodbye.
QUOTE (kahlmyishmael+Apr 15 2007, 05:25 PM)
..and yet once more you have failed to mention "15 micron diameter iron spheres".....
You had no problem responding/replying before... but now that I have POINTED OUT the contradiction between "your explanation" and "Greening's "one of the great mysteries"..
...you are RANTING and RAVING and SCREAMING(favorite OCTer terms) to produce Jones work or advance my own thoeries.
15 micron diameter iron spheres
15 micron diameter iron spheres
15 micron diameter iron spheres
"one of the great mysteries" as Dr Frank Greening stated on the radio interview?
OR
easily explained by the answer YOU YOURSELF HAVE already offered and are now attempting to wiggle away from by saying produce Professor Jones papers or advance your oown theories...
No, no...old chum... I'm talking about what you've already replied to and are now trying to wiggle away from.
I think you made a specious claim BASED SOLELY on Dr Greening not rushing to your defense by saying, "Tally Ho, old chaps... I was totally wrong! .... I do soever wish I had taken Chainsaw along with me on that radio interview...
...Chainsaw's explanation is absolutely correct! ...The presence of 15 micron iron spheres is no "great mystery" after all as I Dr. frank Greening previously stated and I back that with the full force of my professional reputation...
I, Dr Frank Greening, now wish to advance Chainsaw's explanation to prove that YOU, Professor Steven Jones are both a "fraud" and a "liar" and I back such a statement using Chainsaw's explanation and now...
..wish to proclaim LOUDLY TO THE WORLD that 15 micron diameter iron spheres do not establish the presence of "commercially prepared thermate".
Chainsaw... you've been busted in a specious reply to the 15 micron diameter sphere post of mine...
I've got you by the snout like that Mountain Man had Hollywood Actor, Ned Beatty by in the movie, "Deliverance".... now "skwealll lika' piggg!"
"come on, piggy...skwealll!"
...and in your next post, tell Dr Frank Greening how he should have properly responded to the 15 micron diameter iron sphere presence by cutting/pasting from your reply to my post...
..otherwise--- you're running away from your own words/lies
"skwealll lika' pig!"
Hey, Chainsaw! This is how Ned Beatty looked in that movie when that hillbilly has Ned kneeling on all fours...first he looked like this
and then he looked like this The great mystery is not the spiracles but the fuel necessary to create them and how it was ignited, DA.
It is up to your gods Dr. Jones and Dr Ross to actually prove there is no other source of fuel in the building capable of igniting and forming the spiracles and they have failed to do so.
Your Ideas are simply to simplistic to be worth much notice!
If you wish to worship your gods then I shall not stop you, I do not debate religions much.
QUOTE
Conclusion:
By adopting Dr. Greening's own arguments, corrections, contentions, figures and reasoning, the analysis once again shows that the collapse would have been arrestes at an early stage.
By adopting Dr. Greening's own arguments, corrections, contentions, figures and reasoning, the analysis once again shows that the collapse would have been arrestes at an early stage.
Dr Greening..is this correct? Hyperlink me to where you have responded to this in the past, please. Did Gordon Ross use your own arguments, contentions..... etc?
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| Conclusion: By adopting Dr. Greening's own arguments, corrections, contentions, figures and reasoning, the analysis once again shows that the collapse would have been arrestes at an early stage. |
Dr Greening..is this correct? Hyperlink me to where you have responded to this in the past, please. Did Gordon Ross use your own arguments, contentions..... etc?
Dr. Greening has not disproved the logic and conclusions of my article, but has in fact reinforced the most important conclusion: that collapse would have been arrested at an early stage.
Say it isn't so, Dr Frank Greening...better yet, hyperlink the readership to where you have already written to Gordon Ross to tell him that it isn't so
QUOTE
Further doubt has been cast on gravity-driven collapse using the analysis Dr. Greening has provided in reference to the pulverisation of the concrete.
Oh m'goshhh! Surely there must be something you can hyperlink the readership to where you publicly disputed that Ross took your own figures and analyses AND BEAT YOU over the head with them.
Finding that hyperlink is perhaps another one of the "great mysteries" you talked about, Dr Greening?
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
Further doubt has been cast on gravity-driven collapse using the analysis Dr. Greening has provided in reference to the pulverisation of the concrete. |
Oh m'goshhh! Surely there must be something you can hyperlink the readership to where you publicly disputed that Ross took your own figures and analyses AND BEAT YOU over the head with them.
Finding that hyperlink is perhaps another one of the "great mysteries" you talked about, Dr Greening?
Combining this with our knowledge of the theoretical minimum collapse time having regard ony to momentum transfer, it is shown that a collapse time of 17.5 seconds, is the theoretical minimum collapse time having regard only to momentum transfers and the concrete pulverisation.
Is that true? Using your own figures?
This doesn't get any worse does it, Dr Greening... let's hope not as YOU and I plow further ahead into the reading
QUOTE
This timing contrarily does not take regard of the loss of effective mass that would be present due to the pulverisation and the ejection of concrete pieces outside the area where they play a role in promulgating the collapse.
Dr Greening ... I think it's going to get worse
You may not want to be giving any further radio interviews, sir... nor write any more papers... They will do you no good; you can only injure yourself further
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
This timing contrarily does not take regard of the loss of effective mass that would be present due to the pulverisation and the ejection of concrete pieces outside the area where they play a role in promulgating the collapse. |
Dr Greening ... I think it's going to get worse
You may not want to be giving any further radio interviews, sir... nor write any more papers... They will do you no good; you can only injure yourself further
Having regard to this and the other energies involved, the theoretical minimum collapse time can be seen to be approaching double that of the figures given for the collapse timing in official reports, even with no account taken of the energy demand from the distortion and destruction wrought to the steel superstructures.
.
Dr Greening... I'm afraid that I must inform the board administartors to put your postings on "suicide watch".... shooting yourself that many times in the feet IS BOUND TO END UP in a possible life-threatening scenario... since you'll be unable to walk to proper medical care
Dr Greening... I'm afraid that I must inform the board administartors to put your postings on "suicide watch".... shooting yourself that many times in the feet IS BOUND TO END UP in a possible life-threatening scenario... since you'll be unable to walk to proper medical care
[removed]
kahlmyishmael
I've got you by the snout like that Mountain Man had Hollywood Actor, Ned Beatty by in the movie, "Deliverance".... now "skwealll lika' piggg!" laugh.gif
"come on, piggy...skwealll!"
...and in your next post, tell Dr Frank Greening how he should have properly responded to the 15 micron diameter iron sphere presence by cutting/pasting from your reply to my post...
..otherwise--- you're running away from your own words/lies biggrin.gif
"skwealll lika' pig!"
Hey! This is how Ned Beatty looked in that movie when that hillbilly has Ned kneeling on all fours...first he looked like this huh.gif and then he looked like this ohmy.gif
Are you a Roman Catholic Priest hiding behind your el Queda personna??? You seem to be projecting a proclivity to molest young boys onto others. Do you think being a terrorist HO' will earn you more respect??? I realize that Islamic culture is more accepting of the practice of keeping a catamount, but in America we call people who do those sorts of things CHILD MOLESTERS.
Grumpy
QUOTE
I've got you by the snout like that Mountain Man had Hollywood Actor, Ned Beatty by in the movie, "Deliverance".... now "skwealll lika' piggg!" laugh.gif
"come on, piggy...skwealll!"
...and in your next post, tell Dr Frank Greening how he should have properly responded to the 15 micron diameter iron sphere presence by cutting/pasting from your reply to my post...
..otherwise--- you're running away from your own words/lies biggrin.gif
"skwealll lika' pig!"
Hey! This is how Ned Beatty looked in that movie when that hillbilly has Ned kneeling on all fours...first he looked like this huh.gif and then he looked like this ohmy.gif
Are you a Roman Catholic Priest hiding behind your el Queda personna??? You seem to be projecting a proclivity to molest young boys onto others. Do you think being a terrorist HO' will earn you more respect??? I realize that Islamic culture is more accepting of the practice of keeping a catamount, but in America we call people who do those sorts of things CHILD MOLESTERS.
Grumpy
QUOTE (Grumpy+Apr 15 2007, 06:17 PM)
kahlmyishmael
Are you a Roman Catholic Priest hiding behind your el Queda personna??? You seem to be projecting a proclivity to molest young boys onto others. Do you think being a terrorist HO' will earn you more respect??? I realize that Islamic culture is more accepting of the practice of keeping a catamount, but in America we call people who do those sorts of things CHILD MOLESTERS.
Grumpy
...well, why not advance the more plausible theory that Chainsaw has been caught in his own words and is trying to wiggle his way out of them...
That was the purpose of the analogy... Made it simple for the readership to understand.
He can't even encourage Dr Greening to back the wording in Chainsaw's own posts... Now Chainsaw won't even cut/paste his own reply posting.
Most of us all saw the movie, "Deliverance"...perfectly good, perfectly applicable analogy.
Are you a Roman Catholic Priest hiding behind your el Queda personna??? You seem to be projecting a proclivity to molest young boys onto others. Do you think being a terrorist HO' will earn you more respect??? I realize that Islamic culture is more accepting of the practice of keeping a catamount, but in America we call people who do those sorts of things CHILD MOLESTERS.
Grumpy
...well, why not advance the more plausible theory that Chainsaw has been caught in his own words and is trying to wiggle his way out of them...
That was the purpose of the analogy... Made it simple for the readership to understand.
He can't even encourage Dr Greening to back the wording in Chainsaw's own posts... Now Chainsaw won't even cut/paste his own reply posting.
Most of us all saw the movie, "Deliverance"...perfectly good, perfectly applicable analogy.
QUOTE (kahlmyishmael+Apr 15 2007, 06:14 PM)
"commercially prepared" thermate.
Dr Greening himself advanced the "intelligent thermite" thesis... No we have REALLY intelligent thermite with a very high IQ as evidenced by the 15 micron diameter iron spheres!!!!
..or "commercially prepared thermate/thermite"
Is Dr. Greening saying his thermite was that smart... "my thermite graduated at the top of its class at ordinance school...not like that commercially prepared stuff... my thermite wasn't born with a silver fuse in its mouth... my thermite came up the hard way!"
...and again, Chainsaw..... PUBLICLY ENCOURAGE Dr Greening to adopt the explanation of yours that you NOW REFUSE to cut/paste... adopt it... and use it to level charges of "dishonesty" / "fraud" by Professor Steven Jones.
If your prior explanation was all that hot that it disposed of one of "the great mysteries", you should have absolutely NO PROBLEM convincing Dr Greening to do so.
I see no one else here at PhysOrg is encouraging Dr. Greening to do so.... Just like no one here encouraged Dr Greening to adopt Arthur's explanation of what Andrew Card whispered into George Bush's ear.
No wonder the rest of the PhysOrg OCTers don't encourage Dr Greening to adopt your argument in response to "the 15 micron diameter iron sphere" posting...
...you won't encourage Dr Greening to adopt it yourself
"skwealll lika' piggg!"... guess what was happening to Ned Beatty in the movie, "Deliverance" when he looked like this, Chainsaw???
It's the same thing that is happening to you right now.
"skwealll lika' piggggggggg!"... "c'mon piggy ...skwealll!"
Laugh while you can you shall not laugh long your ignorance is astounding, there is work going on that you have no knowledge of.
When the work is made public, I shall be laughing at you.
Dr Greening himself advanced the "intelligent thermite" thesis... No we have REALLY intelligent thermite with a very high IQ as evidenced by the 15 micron diameter iron spheres!!!!
..or "commercially prepared thermate/thermite"
Is Dr. Greening saying his thermite was that smart... "my thermite graduated at the top of its class at ordinance school...not like that commercially prepared stuff... my thermite wasn't born with a silver fuse in its mouth... my thermite came up the hard way!"
...and again, Chainsaw..... PUBLICLY ENCOURAGE Dr Greening to adopt the explanation of yours that you NOW REFUSE to cut/paste... adopt it... and use it to level charges of "dishonesty" / "fraud" by Professor Steven Jones.
If your prior explanation was all that hot that it disposed of one of "the great mysteries", you should have absolutely NO PROBLEM convincing Dr Greening to do so.
I see no one else here at PhysOrg is encouraging Dr. Greening to do so.... Just like no one here encouraged Dr Greening to adopt Arthur's explanation of what Andrew Card whispered into George Bush's ear.
No wonder the rest of the PhysOrg OCTers don't encourage Dr Greening to adopt your argument in response to "the 15 micron diameter iron sphere" posting...
...you won't encourage Dr Greening to adopt it yourself
"skwealll lika' piggg!"... guess what was happening to Ned Beatty in the movie, "Deliverance" when he looked like this, Chainsaw???
It's the same thing that is happening to you right now.
"skwealll lika' piggggggggg!"... "c'mon piggy ...skwealll!"
Laugh while you can you shall not laugh long your ignorance is astounding, there is work going on that you have no knowledge of.
When the work is made public, I shall be laughing at you.
QUOTE (Grumpy+Apr 15 2007, 06:17 PM)
kahlmyishmael
Are you a Roman Catholic Priest hiding behind your el Queda personna??? You seem to be projecting a proclivity to molest young boys onto others. Do you think being a terrorist HO' will earn you more respect??? I realize that Islamic culture is more accepting of the practice of keeping a catamount, but in America we call people who do those sorts of things CHILD MOLESTERS.
Grumpy
Grumpy do not worry about the kahlmyishmael, after all he is the one proposing intelligent thermite.
How intelligent can he be?
What intelligence level does aluminum and rust attain at 2800c?
A mystery is only a mystery until a solution to the mystery is found, it only takes a fuel source or sources to form the spiracles and what Kahlmyishmael does not seem to understand the source might not be as simplistic as the Aluminum and rust in thermite or thermates. I might be a more complex reaction that is even more powerful, and continuous.
PS. My sides are hurting from laughing at his stupidity, what he says about me does not matter, because he is only demonstration another idiot on the INTERNET quite nicely!
That was my point in continuing this discussion, and it flew though one ear out the other right though his empty head!
Thanks for the Laughs Kahlmyishmael, But my sides are aching to much to continue!
Are you a Roman Catholic Priest hiding behind your el Queda personna??? You seem to be projecting a proclivity to molest young boys onto others. Do you think being a terrorist HO' will earn you more respect??? I realize that Islamic culture is more accepting of the practice of keeping a catamount, but in America we call people who do those sorts of things CHILD MOLESTERS.
Grumpy
Grumpy do not worry about the kahlmyishmael, after all he is the one proposing intelligent thermite.
How intelligent can he be?
What intelligence level does aluminum and rust attain at 2800c?
A mystery is only a mystery until a solution to the mystery is found, it only takes a fuel source or sources to form the spiracles and what Kahlmyishmael does not seem to understand the source might not be as simplistic as the Aluminum and rust in thermite or thermates. I might be a more complex reaction that is even more powerful, and continuous.
PS. My sides are hurting from laughing at his stupidity, what he says about me does not matter, because he is only demonstration another idiot on the INTERNET quite nicely!
That was my point in continuing this discussion, and it flew though one ear out the other right though his empty head!
Thanks for the Laughs Kahlmyishmael, But my sides are aching to much to continue!
QUOTE (adoucette+Apr 15 2007, 02:49 PM)
A tripod is DESIGNED to be stable.
That's the POINT.
It isn't going to vibrate unless the building it is standing on is also SHAKING.
THAT Building is certainly not going to SHAKE if the building that is supposedly transmitting this vibration to it isn't ALSO VISIBLY SHAKING.
But its NOT.
Arthur
OMG! i can't believe you're trying this line of 'reason'.
a tripod only has to be jostled a fraction of an inch for the video to shake. a building would have to move SEVERAL INCHES to be visibly shaking. buildings are always swaying in the wind, but nobody SEES it. you can FEEL it when you're on the upper floors. that's it.
what a LAME argument. LAME, LAME, LAME.
you will use ANY argument just for the sake of arguing. that much is VISIBLE from your SHAKEY reasoning.
( edit 'cause forgot to add 'be', again. )
That's the POINT.
It isn't going to vibrate unless the building it is standing on is also SHAKING.
THAT Building is certainly not going to SHAKE if the building that is supposedly transmitting this vibration to it isn't ALSO VISIBLY SHAKING.
But its NOT.
Arthur
OMG! i can't believe you're trying this line of 'reason'.
a tripod only has to be jostled a fraction of an inch for the video to shake. a building would have to move SEVERAL INCHES to be visibly shaking. buildings are always swaying in the wind, but nobody SEES it. you can FEEL it when you're on the upper floors. that's it.
what a LAME argument. LAME, LAME, LAME.
you will use ANY argument just for the sake of arguing. that much is VISIBLE from your SHAKEY reasoning.
( edit 'cause forgot to add 'be', again. )
QUOTE (Chainsaw+,Apr 15 2007, 06:24 PM)
Laugh while you can you shall not laugh long your ignorance is astounding, there is work going on that you have no knowledge of.
When the work is made public, I shall be laughing at you.
Splendid! But until thennnnnnn ...
...but IN THE MEANTIME-- IN BETWEEN TIME(ain't we got fun)
....why don't you finally,please ,please quit avoiding the issue..... and fianlly ENCOURAGE Dr. Greening to advance your expalanation in favor of his "one of the great mysteries" motif, and say PUBLICLY that Professor Jones committed fraud...
...based on your super-duper, razzle-dazzle reply?
Gosh, man!.... you refuse to even cut/paste your own words now... desperately fleeing from the words in your own postings THE VERY INSTANT that someone suggest they associate their "professional reputatuion" WITH your "scholarship"
Couldn't have been all that great of an explanation in the first place...either that or it was a knowing exercise in "intellectual dishonesty"...
...which would be another good reason to flee from the words in your very own postings.
When the work is made public, I shall be laughing at you.
Splendid! But until thennnnnnn ...
...but IN THE MEANTIME-- IN BETWEEN TIME(ain't we got fun)
....why don't you finally,please ,please quit avoiding the issue..... and fianlly ENCOURAGE Dr. Greening to advance your expalanation in favor of his "one of the great mysteries" motif, and say PUBLICLY that Professor Jones committed fraud...
...based on your super-duper, razzle-dazzle reply?
Gosh, man!.... you refuse to even cut/paste your own words now... desperately fleeing from the words in your own postings THE VERY INSTANT that someone suggest they associate their "professional reputatuion" WITH your "scholarship"
Couldn't have been all that great of an explanation in the first place...either that or it was a knowing exercise in "intellectual dishonesty"...
...which would be another good reason to flee from the words in your very own postings.
QUOTE (Chainsaw,+Apr 15 2007, 06:38 PM)
What intelligence level does aluminum and rust attain at 2800c?
2800C?
2800C?
QUOTE (newton+Apr 15 2007, 06:52 PM)
OMG! i can't believe you're trying this line of 'reason'.
a tripod only has to be jostled a fraction of an inch for the video to shake. a building would have to move SEVERAL INCHES to be visibly shaking. buildings are always swaying in the wind, but nobody SEES it. you can FEEL it when you're on the upper floors. that's it.
what a LAME argument. LAME, LAME, LAME.
you will use ANY argument just for the sake of arguing. that much is VISIBLE from your SHAKEY reasoning.
( edit 'cause forgot to add 'be', again. )
Arthur(Adoucette) got tripped up in his lies so bad DURING THE COURSE of multiple postings THAT THE FINAL MORPH of his pretzel logic was that this is what Andrew Card was whispering into George Bush's ear in that Florida classroom...
"Mr President...that plane you saw crashing into the WTC from a televison THAT WAS OBVIOUSLY ON with the volume THAT WAS OBVIOUSLY TURNED OFF was really a SECOND PLANE crashing into the WTC....
.....and that was not a Cessna single-seater plane, Mr. President; it was a much, much larger 757.... Whoo doggy, Mr President---- America is under attack by TWO terrible pilots"
The more you can get Arthur to quit fleeing from the words in his own posts and keep him on the initial topic---
---the more you get the INCREDIBLY LAUGHABLE morphs like the one shown above.
a tripod only has to be jostled a fraction of an inch for the video to shake. a building would have to move SEVERAL INCHES to be visibly shaking. buildings are always swaying in the wind, but nobody SEES it. you can FEEL it when you're on the upper floors. that's it.
what a LAME argument. LAME, LAME, LAME.
you will use ANY argument just for the sake of arguing. that much is VISIBLE from your SHAKEY reasoning.
( edit 'cause forgot to add 'be', again. )
Arthur(Adoucette) got tripped up in his lies so bad DURING THE COURSE of multiple postings THAT THE FINAL MORPH of his pretzel logic was that this is what Andrew Card was whispering into George Bush's ear in that Florida classroom...
"Mr President...that plane you saw crashing into the WTC from a televison THAT WAS OBVIOUSLY ON with the volume THAT WAS OBVIOUSLY TURNED OFF was really a SECOND PLANE crashing into the WTC....
.....and that was not a Cessna single-seater plane, Mr. President; it was a much, much larger 757.... Whoo doggy, Mr President---- America is under attack by TWO terrible pilots"
The more you can get Arthur to quit fleeing from the words in his own posts and keep him on the initial topic---
---the more you get the INCREDIBLY LAUGHABLE morphs like the one shown above.
QUOTE (newton+Apr 15 2007, 07:07 PM)
2800C?
What temperature does Oxidizing Aluminum produce?
Since that is the fuel in thermite.
What temperature does Oxidizing Aluminum produce?
Since that is the fuel in thermite.
QUOTE (Chainsaw,+Apr 15 2007, 07:25 PM)
What temperature does Oxidizing Aluminum produce?
Since that is the fuel in thermite.
so, you're saying there was thermite in the towers?
Since that is the fuel in thermite.
so, you're saying there was thermite in the towers?
QUOTE (kahlmyishmael+Apr 15 2007, 07:07 PM)
Splendid! But until thennnnnnn ...
...but IN THE MEANTIME-- IN BETWEEN TIME(ain't we got fun)
....why don't you finally,please ,please quit avoiding the issue..... and fianlly ENCOURAGE Dr. Greening to advance your expalanation in favor of his "one of the great mysteries" motif, and say PUBLICLY that Professor Jones committed fraud...
...based on your super-duper, razzle-dazzle reply?
Gosh, man!.... you refuse to even cut/paste your own words now... desperately fleeing from the words in your own postings THE VERY INSTANT that someone suggest they associate their "professional reputatuion" WITH your "scholarship"
Couldn't have been all that great of an explanation in the first place...either that or it was a knowing exercise in "intellectual dishonesty"...
...which would be another good reason to flee from the words in your very own postings.
MY words are posted there is no reason to repeat them or run away from them, and I stand by them.
I have the right to disagree with Dr. Jones, Dr. Ross, Dr. Fetzer, Dr. Judy Wood, or Dr. Greening.
IT does not matter to me if Dr. Greening uses my Ideas or not I simply state the obvious as I perceive it.
Intellectual dishonesty is your forte kahlmyishmael not mine, Dr. Greening can do as he wishes, and he will do as he wishes no one has to encourage him to do anything, that is what you do not understand.
You may make as many of these attacks as you wish it does not bother me at all I expect it, and quite like laughing at your stupidity.
Do you actually think I am only proposing one possible fuel source?
your constant barrage of ignorance in your postings is noted already your continued ignorance is delightful and Amusing.
...but IN THE MEANTIME-- IN BETWEEN TIME(ain't we got fun)
....why don't you finally,please ,please quit avoiding the issue..... and fianlly ENCOURAGE Dr. Greening to advance your expalanation in favor of his "one of the great mysteries" motif, and say PUBLICLY that Professor Jones committed fraud...
...based on your super-duper, razzle-dazzle reply?
Gosh, man!.... you refuse to even cut/paste your own words now... desperately fleeing from the words in your own postings THE VERY INSTANT that someone suggest they associate their "professional reputatuion" WITH your "scholarship"
Couldn't have been all that great of an explanation in the first place...either that or it was a knowing exercise in "intellectual dishonesty"...
...which would be another good reason to flee from the words in your very own postings.
MY words are posted there is no reason to repeat them or run away from them, and I stand by them.
I have the right to disagree with Dr. Jones, Dr. Ross, Dr. Fetzer, Dr. Judy Wood, or Dr. Greening.
IT does not matter to me if Dr. Greening uses my Ideas or not I simply state the obvious as I perceive it.
Intellectual dishonesty is your forte kahlmyishmael not mine, Dr. Greening can do as he wishes, and he will do as he wishes no one has to encourage him to do anything, that is what you do not understand.
You may make as many of these attacks as you wish it does not bother me at all I expect it, and quite like laughing at your stupidity.
Do you actually think I am only proposing one possible fuel source?
your constant barrage of ignorance in your postings is noted already your continued ignorance is delightful and Amusing.
QUOTE (newton+Apr 15 2007, 07:38 PM)
so, you're saying there was thermite in the towers?
NO that is not what I am saying although I expect Oxidizing metal reactions, that is only one fuel source, there are several fuel sources but I can not add more at this time.
However I know that an interesting development is in the works that will shed more light on the conditions in the buildings than is currently known.
I know better than to enlighten people on what it really is but I can give clues.
Like Frank Said it is all about chemistry, when he is ready he will clue us all in more.
I attack he message not the messenger unless the messenger is a complete waist of space, and willfully ignorant like kahlmyishmael only interested in the politics.
NO that is not what I am saying although I expect Oxidizing metal reactions, that is only one fuel source, there are several fuel sources but I can not add more at this time.
However I know that an interesting development is in the works that will shed more light on the conditions in the buildings than is currently known.
I know better than to enlighten people on what it really is but I can give clues.
Like Frank Said it is all about chemistry, when he is ready he will clue us all in more.
I attack he message not the messenger unless the messenger is a complete waist of space, and willfully ignorant like kahlmyishmael only interested in the politics.
well, if NF comes up with some more coincidence theory, i'll only be midly surprised.
and IF he comes up with something remotely plausible, why the HELL didn't NIST find it in their most complete, exhaustive investigation?
here's something funny. i used this, video of tacoma narrows bridge to illustrate the power of standing waves over at ATS, and coincidentally, some debunker("gary razor") has a video where he tries to use the same video to convince people that 'stuff just happens', and that without a degree in physics or engineering, you shouldn't trust your perception about the towers.
the thread i used this on has a good anti-woods argument. why would resonance/microwave/beam weapons have to be 'space-based'? why not just put it in the basement?
and IF he comes up with something remotely plausible, why the HELL didn't NIST find it in their most complete, exhaustive investigation?
here's something funny. i used this, video of tacoma narrows bridge to illustrate the power of standing waves over at ATS, and coincidentally, some debunker("gary razor") has a video where he tries to use the same video to convince people that 'stuff just happens', and that without a degree in physics or engineering, you shouldn't trust your perception about the towers.
the thread i used this on has a good anti-woods argument. why would resonance/microwave/beam weapons have to be 'space-based'? why not just put it in the basement?
QUOTE (Chainsaw,+Apr 15 2007, 07:49 PM)
NO that is not what I am saying although I expect Oxidizing metal reactions, that is only one fuel source, there are several fuel sources but I can not add more at this time.
However I know that an interesting development is in the works that will shed more light on the conditions in the buildings than is currently known.
I know better than to enlighten people on what it really is but I can give clues.
Like Frank Said it is all about chemistry, when he is ready he will clue us all in more.
I attack he message not the messenger unless the messenger is a complete waist of space, and willfully ignorant like kahlmyishmael only interested in the politics.
...and how about 15 micron diameter iron spheres... Frank has ALREADY given us the "intelligent thermite" thesis...
..now we move to "SUPER Hi IQ intelligent thermite".
Can you hyperlink to anywhere Frank has responded to Gordon Ross's critique of his "free fall collapse" of 17.5 seconds minimum?
Why don't you and Frank ever mention the phrase, "15 micron diameter iron spheres"?
It's gotta' be 3 or 4 times I've asked for the hyperlink and for Greening to advance the explanation you posted to call Professor Jones a fraud.
Provide the hyperlink... then encourage Greening to use your posted reply to publicly call Professor Jones a fraud.
it's that simple
However I know that an interesting development is in the works that will shed more light on the conditions in the buildings than is currently known.
I know better than to enlighten people on what it really is but I can give clues.
Like Frank Said it is all about chemistry, when he is ready he will clue us all in more.
I attack he message not the messenger unless the messenger is a complete waist of space, and willfully ignorant like kahlmyishmael only interested in the politics.
...and how about 15 micron diameter iron spheres... Frank has ALREADY given us the "intelligent thermite" thesis...
..now we move to "SUPER Hi IQ intelligent thermite".
Can you hyperlink to anywhere Frank has responded to Gordon Ross's critique of his "free fall collapse" of 17.5 seconds minimum?
Why don't you and Frank ever mention the phrase, "15 micron diameter iron spheres"?
It's gotta' be 3 or 4 times I've asked for the hyperlink and for Greening to advance the explanation you posted to call Professor Jones a fraud.
Provide the hyperlink... then encourage Greening to use your posted reply to publicly call Professor Jones a fraud.
it's that simple
Ah, Newton, still my favorite Physorg conspiracy guy!
So much unlike that Moby *** character posting here of late.
"Aye, toil as we may, we all sleep at last in the field.
Sleep? Aye, and rust amid the greenness....."
QUOTE (newton+Apr 15 2007, 08:04 PM)
why not just put it in the basement?
Yes, yes! I keep telling everybody that it was GR with the G-ray in the Basement!
But nobody believes me...
Yes, yes! I keep telling everybody that it was GR with the G-ray in the Basement!
But nobody believes me...
QUOTE (newton+Apr 15 2007, 08:04 PM)
well, if NF comes up with some more coincidence theory, i'll only be midly surprised.
and IF he comes up with something remotely plausible, why the HELL didn't NIST find it in their most complete, exhaustive investigation?
here's something funny. i used this, video of tacoma narrows bridge to illustrate the power of standing waves over at ATS, and coincidentally, some debunker("gary razor") has a video where he tries to use the same video to convince people that 'stuff just happens', and that without a degree in physics or engineering, you shouldn't trust your perception about the towers.
the thread i used this on has a good anti-woods argument. why would resonance/microwave/beam weapons have to be 'space-based'? why not just put it in the basement?
How would microwaves be used at all, the problem with microwave can be summed up in early experiment on space based energy transfer devices, they are absorbed by moisture in the air, and cause electrical current in metals that would just dissipate into the ground.
Also most of the proposed weapons that would work either require antimatter, or Nuclear detonations to create Gama rays, such as the Gama Ray laser of the star wars programs under Reagan I laughed at that proposal myself back then.
Then you have the problem of atmospheric Ionization of lasers or any other part of the electromagnetic spectrum.
Although I do consider the microwave theory of more probable than the thermite theory.
You see the thermite theory requires that the thermite be bolted to the steel beams then shock waves need to transmit thought those beams into the ground and cause the first seismic waves transmitted into the ground.
As viewed on the first seismic data.
The strength of the waves transmitted to the ground by the impact are a measurement of the shock, the explosives have to endure while bolted to the beams. I have not gotten any aluminum and iron oxide combination-thermtie to survive even a third the shock wave energy that was transmitted though the steel.
The smaller the particle the less likely it is to survive because the Aluminum oxide around the particle is weaker.
PS, the reaction that NF. is looking at is a natural reaction in the buildings that can go unnoticed because it takes a specific set of chemical interactions over time of common building components and materials and leaves almost no trace that it ever happened, except some metal oxide reactions some small chemical reactions, and some molten metal reactions that could be mistaken for reactions of the fires.
All of which would have been likely in the collapse anyway.
Let me put it this way when I put a steel beam into Calcium Chloride, and sulfuric acid, and left it over night, I walked out the next morning and the beam had suffered intense sulfidication, and was so hot that when I touched it with my Forney welding and cutting gloves, It burned my hand though the gloves.
That is also after the hydrogen explosion that it making a mess everywhere.
The beam had obviously cooled from the draining of the sulfuric acid, and Calcium chloride solution yet still was to hot to pick up with out using a pare of big vice grips.
I had set up one of those cheep video cameras you know the security type you buy at walmart, and it was toast the acid was splashed on it and the VCR so no video of what happened. I tried to recover some footage but all I could recover was the first half hour or so and nothing happened in time besides some bubbles forming rather rapidly.
I will have to let NF. explain the rest, but if he is right the buildings were doomed from the minute the planes hit them and it would explain many of the abnormallites better than anything as of yet proposed.
My main problem with Dr. Jones is the god like effect he has on his followers I believe he has added by finding sulfidication and doing test, to the true understanding of the Collapse.
However I should not have my life and that of my family threatened for disagreeing with him even though I do not have a PHD. I can mix compounds and observe the reactions, and report on them faithfully if I live.
I have even contacted Dr. Jones on occasion, and he was some what receptive to my Ideas.
It is just the political aspects that get blown out of proportion, with the followers of the group ethic like kahlmyishmael.
I mean I thought this was about Science and the truth when I started looking into this not about politics, if I had known that it was going to be this political, I would have avoided it like the plague.
and IF he comes up with something remotely plausible, why the HELL didn't NIST find it in their most complete, exhaustive investigation?
here's something funny. i used this, video of tacoma narrows bridge to illustrate the power of standing waves over at ATS, and coincidentally, some debunker("gary razor") has a video where he tries to use the same video to convince people that 'stuff just happens', and that without a degree in physics or engineering, you shouldn't trust your perception about the towers.
the thread i used this on has a good anti-woods argument. why would resonance/microwave/beam weapons have to be 'space-based'? why not just put it in the basement?
How would microwaves be used at all, the problem with microwave can be summed up in early experiment on space based energy transfer devices, they are absorbed by moisture in the air, and cause electrical current in metals that would just dissipate into the ground.
Also most of the proposed weapons that would work either require antimatter, or Nuclear detonations to create Gama rays, such as the Gama Ray laser of the star wars programs under Reagan I laughed at that proposal myself back then.
Then you have the problem of atmospheric Ionization of lasers or any other part of the electromagnetic spectrum.
Although I do consider the microwave theory of more probable than the thermite theory.
You see the thermite theory requires that the thermite be bolted to the steel beams then shock waves need to transmit thought those beams into the ground and cause the first seismic waves transmitted into the ground.
As viewed on the first seismic data.
The strength of the waves transmitted to the ground by the impact are a measurement of the shock, the explosives have to endure while bolted to the beams. I have not gotten any aluminum and iron oxide combination-thermtie to survive even a third the shock wave energy that was transmitted though the steel.
The smaller the particle the less likely it is to survive because the Aluminum oxide around the particle is weaker.
PS, the reaction that NF. is looking at is a natural reaction in the buildings that can go unnoticed because it takes a specific set of chemical interactions over time of common building components and materials and leaves almost no trace that it ever happened, except some metal oxide reactions some small chemical reactions, and some molten metal reactions that could be mistaken for reactions of the fires.
All of which would have been likely in the collapse anyway.
Let me put it this way when I put a steel beam into Calcium Chloride, and sulfuric acid, and left it over night, I walked out the next morning and the beam had suffered intense sulfidication, and was so hot that when I touched it with my Forney welding and cutting gloves, It burned my hand though the gloves.
That is also after the hydrogen explosion that it making a mess everywhere.
The beam had obviously cooled from the draining of the sulfuric acid, and Calcium chloride solution yet still was to hot to pick up with out using a pare of big vice grips.
I had set up one of those cheep video cameras you know the security type you buy at walmart, and it was toast the acid was splashed on it and the VCR so no video of what happened. I tried to recover some footage but all I could recover was the first half hour or so and nothing happened in time besides some bubbles forming rather rapidly.
I will have to let NF. explain the rest, but if he is right the buildings were doomed from the minute the planes hit them and it would explain many of the abnormallites better than anything as of yet proposed.
My main problem with Dr. Jones is the god like effect he has on his followers I believe he has added by finding sulfidication and doing test, to the true understanding of the Collapse.
However I should not have my life and that of my family threatened for disagreeing with him even though I do not have a PHD. I can mix compounds and observe the reactions, and report on them faithfully if I live.
I have even contacted Dr. Jones on occasion, and he was some what receptive to my Ideas.
It is just the political aspects that get blown out of proportion, with the followers of the group ethic like kahlmyishmael.
I mean I thought this was about Science and the truth when I started looking into this not about politics, if I had known that it was going to be this political, I would have avoided it like the plague.
QUOTE (Capracus+Apr 15 2007, 03:24 AM)
Sonic booms, how reticules. At 39:10 in your video, about a minute after the collapse of WTC 1, what do we hear, could that be the noise of a jet? Not a commercial airliner, cause we know they've been grounded at this point. Sounds like a jet fighter to me.
I'm sure he said "Oh My God" because Jesus just walked into the room, and then coincidentally we see the tower collapsing. Maybe the edit was simply for foul language. There is a news broadcast in the background and the exact time could be matched to it.
Something as significant as a thunderous explosion and they want to edit it out?
Only half of these sounds don't coincide with any known visual action, and the other half, if they are the sound of the collapse, have nothing to do with explosions.
No, we have three audios, and two of them have no evidence of explosive sounds. Explain that.
The only thing it documented was that some loud noises were heard in Hoboken that day, not necessarily anywhere else.
This is America. Anyone can believe whatever they want, even if their analysis makes no sense whatsoever regarding the facts. I refer to your reply, and in a court of law, a good prosecutor would tear you a new one based upon it.
I, myself, choose not to waste any more time with you on this.
BUT I CAN SAFELY SAY THE AVERAGE PERSON LOOKING AT THIS VIDEO SEGMENT SEES IT QUITE DIFFERENTLY FOR WHAT IT REVEALS.
And 9/11 WAS an inside job.
Adios
AND THIS IS THE TESTIMONY THAT GOD HAS GIVEN US ETERNAL LIFE
AND THIS LIFE IS IN HIS SON
HE WHO HAS THE SON HAS THE LIFE
HE WHO HAS NOT THE SON OF GOD HAS NOT THE LIFE
I'm sure he said "Oh My God" because Jesus just walked into the room, and then coincidentally we see the tower collapsing. Maybe the edit was simply for foul language. There is a news broadcast in the background and the exact time could be matched to it.
Something as significant as a thunderous explosion and they want to edit it out?
Only half of these sounds don't coincide with any known visual action, and the other half, if they are the sound of the collapse, have nothing to do with explosions.
No, we have three audios, and two of them have no evidence of explosive sounds. Explain that.
The only thing it documented was that some loud noises were heard in Hoboken that day, not necessarily anywhere else.
This is America. Anyone can believe whatever they want, even if their analysis makes no sense whatsoever regarding the facts. I refer to your reply, and in a court of law, a good prosecutor would tear you a new one based upon it.
I, myself, choose not to waste any more time with you on this.
BUT I CAN SAFELY SAY THE AVERAGE PERSON LOOKING AT THIS VIDEO SEGMENT SEES IT QUITE DIFFERENTLY FOR WHAT IT REVEALS.
And 9/11 WAS an inside job.
Adios
AND THIS IS THE TESTIMONY THAT GOD HAS GIVEN US ETERNAL LIFE
AND THIS LIFE IS IN HIS SON
HE WHO HAS THE SON HAS THE LIFE
HE WHO HAS NOT THE SON OF GOD HAS NOT THE LIFE
QUOTE (newton+Apr 15 2007, 01:52 PM)
OMG! i can't believe you're trying this line of 'reason'.
a tripod only has to be jostled a fraction of an inch for the video to shake. a building would have to move SEVERAL INCHES to be visibly shaking. buildings are always swaying in the wind, but nobody SEES it. you can FEEL it when you're on the upper floors. that's it.
what a LAME argument. LAME, LAME, LAME.
you will use ANY argument just for the sake of arguing. that much is VISIBLE from your SHAKEY reasoning.
( edit 'cause forgot to add 'be', again. )
Nope,
SWAYING of a building does not the building next to it shake.
According to the CT'er creed, twas EXPLOSIVES going off that caused grevious damage to the WTC towers and ALSO caused the building some distance away to shake enough that the camera moves.
In this case one would MOST DEFINATELY expect to see some reaction from the TARGET BUILDING of the explosives.
Or at least HEAR them on the audio portion of the video.
But NEITHER are heard or seen.
So, in the absense of ANY OTHER EVIDENCE to the contrary, I think I'll go with someone shook the tripod.
Arthur
a tripod only has to be jostled a fraction of an inch for the video to shake. a building would have to move SEVERAL INCHES to be visibly shaking. buildings are always swaying in the wind, but nobody SEES it. you can FEEL it when you're on the upper floors. that's it.
what a LAME argument. LAME, LAME, LAME.
you will use ANY argument just for the sake of arguing. that much is VISIBLE from your SHAKEY reasoning.
( edit 'cause forgot to add 'be', again. )
Nope,
SWAYING of a building does not the building next to it shake.
According to the CT'er creed, twas EXPLOSIVES going off that caused grevious damage to the WTC towers and ALSO caused the building some distance away to shake enough that the camera moves.
In this case one would MOST DEFINATELY expect to see some reaction from the TARGET BUILDING of the explosives.
Or at least HEAR them on the audio portion of the video.
But NEITHER are heard or seen.
So, in the absense of ANY OTHER EVIDENCE to the contrary, I think I'll go with someone shook the tripod.
Arthur
QUOTE (David B. Benson+Apr 15 2007, 08:46 PM)
Yes, yes! I keep telling everybody that it was GR with the G-ray in the Basement!
But nobody believes me...
it's a distinct possibility.
p.s. thanks, NF, my favourite OCT(although crazy gets points for being kinetic).
But nobody believes me...
it's a distinct possibility.
p.s. thanks, NF, my favourite OCT(although crazy gets points for being kinetic).
QUOTE (Chainsaw,+Apr 15 2007, 08:49 PM)
However I should not have my life and that of my family threatened for disagreeing with him even though I do not have a PHD. I can mix compounds and observe the reactions, and report on them faithfully if I live.
I have even contacted Dr. Jones on occasion, and he was some what receptive to my Ideas.
It is just the political aspects that get blown out of proportion, with the followers of the group ethic like kahlmyishmael.
I mean I thought this was about Science and the truth when I started looking into this not about politics, if I had known that it was going to be this political, I would have avoided it like the plague.
i think you're family is threatened if they're within a one mile radius of your experiments.
there would need to be A LOT of sulphur in the building for what i think you're hinting at.
it will still expose the whole official whitewash for what it is. i think the fact that someone as educated as NF, or someone as practical as you, even feel inspired to look further into the issue says enough. you're not even conspiracy guys.
I have even contacted Dr. Jones on occasion, and he was some what receptive to my Ideas.
It is just the political aspects that get blown out of proportion, with the followers of the group ethic like kahlmyishmael.
I mean I thought this was about Science and the truth when I started looking into this not about politics, if I had known that it was going to be this political, I would have avoided it like the plague.
i think you're family is threatened if they're within a one mile radius of your experiments.
there would need to be A LOT of sulphur in the building for what i think you're hinting at.
it will still expose the whole official whitewash for what it is. i think the fact that someone as educated as NF, or someone as practical as you, even feel inspired to look further into the issue says enough. you're not even conspiracy guys.
QUOTE (newton+Apr 15 2007, 09:58 PM)
it's a distinct possibility.
quicklybraindead
Only if you mean inside a cave in Afganistan.
Only if you mean inside a cave in Afganistan.
Adios
Adieu, DA!!! Go back to the 911 research site, they are even dumber than you have proven to be.
Grumpy
Can not argue with you there.
Can not argue with you there.
there would need to be A LOT of sulphur in the building for what i think you're hinting at.
Not really the major component is the Calcium chloride or other chloride products.
The sulfuric acid only speeds the action of the chloride, and helps in the formation of the Oxidation and sulfidication.
I have no Choice, the truth movement has seen to that, I will not have peace until this is solved then I just want to go to a deserted Island and become a hermit, away from everyone. I think that NF. knows what I mean.
QUOTE
And 9/11 WAS an inside job.
Only if you mean inside a cave in Afganistan.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| And 9/11 WAS an inside job. |
Only if you mean inside a cave in Afganistan.
Adios
Adieu, DA!!! Go back to the 911 research site, they are even dumber than you have proven to be.
Grumpy
QUOTE
i think you're family is threatened if they're within a one mile radius of your experiments.
Can not argue with you there.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| i think you're family is threatened if they're within a one mile radius of your experiments. |
Can not argue with you there.
there would need to be A LOT of sulphur in the building for what i think you're hinting at.
Not really the major component is the Calcium chloride or other chloride products.
The sulfuric acid only speeds the action of the chloride, and helps in the formation of the Oxidation and sulfidication.
QUOTE
it will still expose the whole official whitewash for what it is. i think the fact that someone as educated as NF, or someone as practical as you, even feel inspired to look further into the issue says enough. you're not even conspiracy guys.
I have no Choice, the truth movement has seen to that, I will not have peace until this is solved then I just want to go to a deserted Island and become a hermit, away from everyone. I think that NF. knows what I mean.
B & V produce a crush-down differential equation by homogenizing an entire tower, so that, in the model, no longer are there discrete floors. This offers considerable ease in the programming effort required to determine the energy consumption from the data. But more, it offers a somewhat better explanation of the data for the first 0.8 seconds of measurements for WTC 1, which is just the time it takes for the south edge of one actual floor to be impacted. Recall that the top block tilts to the south at the beginning. Before that, no actual floors are impacted and yet the measured fall is certainly slower than free-fall.
Here is the data. The first column is the time, the second the actual measurements that NEU-FONZE made and estimated the error as +-0.2 m, the third is the corresponding drop produced by my computer program.
0.0 0.0 0.00
0.2 0.1 0.14
0.4 0.4 0.55
0.6 0.9 1.23
0.8 2.0 2.18
and for this portion of the data the acceleration is about 0.7g. Which is noticeably less than free-fall. So something was consuming energy and slowing the fall. We know that the ovrerall energy consumption was about 330 J/kg, which is lots. Where is it going? Not into concrete comminution, since no office floor is struck before 0.8 seconds. Well, possibly in the core some concrete comminution was occurring. No exterior wall sections have yet been tossed to the side, and indeed this does not appear to have occurred for the entire three seconds of measurements. So what process was consuming about 330 J/kg?
I suggest friction between the wedged-in upper portion of the exterior walls and the wedged-out lower portion of the exterior walls, together with some destruction of connection between exterior wall sections. This process is indeed continuous throughout the entire observed portion of the collapse.
Qualitatively this looks fine. But does this process really consume about 0.25--0.3 GJ in the first 0.8 seconds?
Comments, please.
Here is the data. The first column is the time, the second the actual measurements that NEU-FONZE made and estimated the error as +-0.2 m, the third is the corresponding drop produced by my computer program.
0.0 0.0 0.00
0.2 0.1 0.14
0.4 0.4 0.55
0.6 0.9 1.23
0.8 2.0 2.18
and for this portion of the data the acceleration is about 0.7g. Which is noticeably less than free-fall. So something was consuming energy and slowing the fall. We know that the ovrerall energy consumption was about 330 J/kg, which is lots. Where is it going? Not into concrete comminution, since no office floor is struck before 0.8 seconds. Well, possibly in the core some concrete comminution was occurring. No exterior wall sections have yet been tossed to the side, and indeed this does not appear to have occurred for the entire three seconds of measurements. So what process was consuming about 330 J/kg?
I suggest friction between the wedged-in upper portion of the exterior walls and the wedged-out lower portion of the exterior walls, together with some destruction of connection between exterior wall sections. This process is indeed continuous throughout the entire observed portion of the collapse.
Qualitatively this looks fine. But does this process really consume about 0.25--0.3 GJ in the first 0.8 seconds?
Comments, please.
QUOTE (Grumpy+Apr 15 2007, 04:05 PM)
quicklybraindead
Only if you mean inside a cave in Afganistan.
Adieu, DA!!! Go back to the 911 research site, they are even dumber than you have proven to be.
Grumpy
Oh, did you say something? I've got you on ignore.
REJOICE IN THE LORD ALWAYS
AGAIN I WILL SAY REJOICE
Only if you mean inside a cave in Afganistan.
Adieu, DA!!! Go back to the 911 research site, they are even dumber than you have proven to be.
Grumpy
Oh, did you say something? I've got you on ignore.
REJOICE IN THE LORD ALWAYS
AGAIN I WILL SAY REJOICE
QUOTE (newton+Apr 13 2007, 10:55 AM)
and there were SEVERAL vacant floors at the twin towers.
they were not worried about collateral damage, in fact, they wanted shock'n'awe.
whole floors were DONATED to artists.
they were white asbestos elephants.
the 100 'elevator mechanics' planted the bombs, ok, arthur? that's why they didn't stick around and help out, after the planes hit.
newton, here is an update on Ace Elevator ( a little background first):
Who is Ace Elevator?
Port Authority of New York and New Jersey give the maintenance contract held by Otis Elevator (the elevator manufacture ) to a small company, ACE Elevator. Then in 1999, ACE Elevator undertook what was perhaps, one of the largest, most sophisticated elevator modernization programs in the industry's history reported in March of 2001.
They made large structural changes around the machine rooms, floors and walls throughout the buildings. This of course was not in the NIST report.
http://web.archive.org/web/20030926031958/...df/0103-002.pdf
Were is Ace Elevator today? Since almost all the revenue was from the WTC, they filed for bankruptcy:
http://www.nysb.uscourts.gov/opinions/rdd/...152_opinion.pdf
So why would you give one of the largest, most sophisticated elevator modernization programs in the industry's history to A SMALL maintenance contractor with basically one customer?
Grumpy, please explain:
http://www.nysb.uscourts.gov/opinions/rdd/...152_opinion.pdf
So why would you give one of the largest, most sophisticated elevator modernization programs in the industry's history to A SMALL maintenance contractor with basically one customer?
Grumpy, please explain:
Grumpy Posted: Apr 10 2007, 06:54 PM
Negative DA!!!
so I don't misunderstand the meaning.
they were not worried about collateral damage, in fact, they wanted shock'n'awe.
whole floors were DONATED to artists.
they were white asbestos elephants.
the 100 'elevator mechanics' planted the bombs, ok, arthur? that's why they didn't stick around and help out, after the planes hit.
newton, here is an update on Ace Elevator ( a little background first):
Who is Ace Elevator?
Port Authority of New York and New Jersey give the maintenance contract held by Otis Elevator (the elevator manufacture ) to a small company, ACE Elevator. Then in 1999, ACE Elevator undertook what was perhaps, one of the largest, most sophisticated elevator modernization programs in the industry's history reported in March of 2001.
They made large structural changes around the machine rooms, floors and walls throughout the buildings. This of course was not in the NIST report.
http://web.archive.org/web/20030926031958/...df/0103-002.pdf
Were is Ace Elevator today? Since almost all the revenue was from the WTC, they filed for bankruptcy:
QUOTE
ACE’s business was, and, to the extent that it still has a business, is, the
construction, modernization, maintenance and repair of elevators in the New York City area. ACE built the elevator systems in the World Trade Center and until September 11, 2001 had been their sole servicer, from which it derived 90 percent of its revenue.Unable to make up enough of that income from other sources, ACE filed under chapter 11 on December 21, 2004
construction, modernization, maintenance and repair of elevators in the New York City area. ACE built the elevator systems in the World Trade Center and until September 11, 2001 had been their sole servicer, from which it derived 90 percent of its revenue.Unable to make up enough of that income from other sources, ACE filed under chapter 11 on December 21, 2004
http://www.nysb.uscourts.gov/opinions/rdd/...152_opinion.pdf
So why would you give one of the largest, most sophisticated elevator modernization programs in the industry's history to A SMALL maintenance contractor with basically one customer?
Grumpy, please explain:
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| ACE’s business was, and, to the extent that it still has a business, is, the construction, modernization, maintenance and repair of elevators in the New York City area. ACE built the elevator systems in the World Trade Center and until September 11, 2001 had been their sole servicer, from which it derived 90 percent of its revenue.Unable to make up enough of that income from other sources, ACE filed under chapter 11 on December 21, 2004 |
http://www.nysb.uscourts.gov/opinions/rdd/...152_opinion.pdf
So why would you give one of the largest, most sophisticated elevator modernization programs in the industry's history to A SMALL maintenance contractor with basically one customer?
Grumpy, please explain:
Grumpy Posted: Apr 10 2007, 06:54 PM
Negative DA!!!
so I don't misunderstand the meaning.
QUOTE (adoucette+Apr 15 2007, 02:49 PM)
A tripod is DESIGNED to be stable.
That's the POINT.
It isn't going to vibrate unless the building it is standing on is also SHAKING.
THAT Building is certainly not going to SHAKE if the building that is supposedly transmitting this vibration to it isn't ALSO VISIBLY SHAKING.
But its NOT.
Arthur
I hope to find a video that is not much cropped as this one, but when a truck drives in the street then it sometimes happenes that only a part from a clock starts to resonate while my house doesn't resonate, it doesn't move only transfers energy. btw did you notice that at the same time a piece of debris leaves the building at the impact zone. Something major happened and is only visible there because that was an open zone.
That's the POINT.
It isn't going to vibrate unless the building it is standing on is also SHAKING.
THAT Building is certainly not going to SHAKE if the building that is supposedly transmitting this vibration to it isn't ALSO VISIBLY SHAKING.
But its NOT.
Arthur
I hope to find a video that is not much cropped as this one, but when a truck drives in the street then it sometimes happenes that only a part from a clock starts to resonate while my house doesn't resonate, it doesn't move only transfers energy. btw did you notice that at the same time a piece of debris leaves the building at the impact zone. Something major happened and is only visible there because that was an open zone.
QUOTE (quicknthedead+Apr 15 2007, 09:17 PM)
This is America. Anyone can believe whatever they want, even if their analysis makes no sense whatsoever regarding the facts. I refer to your reply, and in a court of law, a good prosecutor would tear you a new one based upon it.
What I believe is not based on a one sided view of the facts. A good prosecutor would not bring such a weak case before a jury. You show one video containing alleged sounds from who knows where and you expect reasonable people to accept it as fact when it is contradicted by other videos containing no such sounds. Even a mediocre defense attorney would make a laughing stock of your prosecutor with the abundance of contradictory evidence. Speaking of contradictory evidence, here is a longer version of the rooftop video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ujw1FPq0pNM
It was shot by a film maker named Etienne Sauret. The location of the camera appears to be about a mile to the north east of WTC 1 judging by the camera angle and the 5 second delay of the collapse sounds. This footage is uninterrupted and the duration long enough to hear any sounds allegedly heard on the Hoboken video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ujw1FPq0pNM
It was shot by a film maker named Etienne Sauret. The location of the camera appears to be about a mile to the north east of WTC 1 judging by the camera angle and the 5 second delay of the collapse sounds. This footage is uninterrupted and the duration long enough to hear any sounds allegedly heard on the Hoboken video.
QUOTE
I, myself, choose not to waste any more time with you on this.
Because your afraid you might have to face the reality of your position.QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| I, myself, choose not to waste any more time with you on this. |
Because your afraid you might have to face the reality of your position.
BUT I CAN SAFELY SAY THE AVERAGE PERSON LOOKING AT THIS VIDEO SEGMENT SEES IT QUITE DIFFERENTLY FOR WHAT IT REVEALS.
BUT I CAN SAFELY SAY THE AVERAGE PERSON LOOKING AT THIS VIDEO SEGMENT SEES IT QUITE DIFFERENTLY FOR WHAT IT REVEALS.
Only if they ignore the rest of the facts. God, I'd hate to think they would allow people like you onto a jury.
These are some quotes from the website of Bob and Bri, the couple that shot the video, What we saw - Bob and Bri .
So why would you give one of the largest, most sophisticated elevator modernization programs in the industry's history to A SMALL maintenance contractor with basically one customer?
MBE/DBE
QUOTE
Q. From where was the video taken?
A. From 41 River Terrace, the tallest building in Battery Park City North, about 500 yards northwest of ground zero. (A blogger has created an image showing our location here.)
I was wrong on my estimation of their distance from ground zero, I thought it was closer to 2000 feet.A. From 41 River Terrace, the tallest building in Battery Park City North, about 500 yards northwest of ground zero. (A blogger has created an image showing our location here.)
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| Q. From where was the video taken? A. From 41 River Terrace, the tallest building in Battery Park City North, about 500 yards northwest of ground zero. (A blogger has created an image showing our location here.) |
I was wrong on my estimation of their distance from ground zero, I thought it was closer to 2000 feet.
Q. Isn't this video missing important scenes?
A. We did not capture the impact of either plane or the start of either building's collapse. As many have surmised, the impacts of the airplanes and collapses of both buildings did catch us by surprise.
Q. Isn't this video missing important scenes?
A. We did not capture the impact of either plane or the start of either building's collapse. As many have surmised, the impacts of the airplanes and collapses of both buildings did catch us by surprise.
Einsteen, you were right about them not catching the beginning of the collapses.
QUOTE
rayna said...
Over the years there have been speculations that there were several explosions before one of the towers collapsed. Did either Bri or Bob hear explosions?
Ray
10/14/2006 6:22 PM
What We Saw said...
Neither of us heard any explosions other than the planes crashing into the towers. The collapse of each tower was accompanied by a loud rumble which sounded and felt like an earthquake.
Craig, sorry, no sounds of explosions from witnesses that were 8500 feet closer than Rick Siegel.Over the years there have been speculations that there were several explosions before one of the towers collapsed. Did either Bri or Bob hear explosions?
Ray
10/14/2006 6:22 PM
What We Saw said...
Neither of us heard any explosions other than the planes crashing into the towers. The collapse of each tower was accompanied by a loud rumble which sounded and felt like an earthquake.
QUOTE (reasonwhy+Apr 16 2007, 12:35 AM)
So why would you give one of the largest, most sophisticated elevator modernization programs in the industry's history to A SMALL maintenance contractor with basically one customer?
MBE/DBE
quicklybraindead
Yeah, along with most of the rest of reality.
reasonlesswhine
Yeah, along with most of the rest of reality.
reasonlesswhine
Grumpy, please explain:
QUOTE
Grumpy Posted: Apr 10 2007, 06:54 PM
Negative DA!!!
so I don't misunderstand the meaning. biggrin.gif
Oh, I'm sure even a DA such as yourself will be able to figure this one out eventually.
Grumpy
QUOTE
Oh, did you say something? I've got you on ignore.
Yeah, along with most of the rest of reality.
reasonlesswhine
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| Oh, did you say something? I've got you on ignore. |
Yeah, along with most of the rest of reality.
reasonlesswhine
Grumpy, please explain:
QUOTE
Grumpy Posted: Apr 10 2007, 06:54 PM
Negative DA!!!
so I don't misunderstand the meaning. biggrin.gif
Oh, I'm sure even a DA such as yourself will be able to figure this one out eventually.
Grumpy
QUOTE (reasonwhy+Apr 16 2007, 01:35 AM)
So why would you give one of the largest, most sophisticated elevator modernization programs in the industry's history to A SMALL maintenance contractor with basically one customer?
So is this your LATEST NIT????
So now you think it was the ELEVATOR MECHANICS?
ROTFLMAO
Arthur
So is this your LATEST NIT????
So now you think it was the ELEVATOR MECHANICS?
ROTFLMAO
Arthur
QUOTE (einsteen+Apr 16 2007, 04:05 AM)
I hope to find a video that is not much cropped as this one, but when a truck drives in the street then it sometimes happenes that only a part from a clock starts to resonate while my house doesn't resonate, it doesn't move only transfers energy. btw did you notice that at the same time a piece of debris leaves the building at the impact zone. Something major happened and is only visible there because that was an open zone.
The WTC was sitting on BEDROCK.
Bedrock in NYC is >60 ft below ground level (which is why there is the BATHTUB)
There is NO WAY something happens massive enough for it to create enough energy to shake a building approx 1 mile away, but NOT shake that building.
OR SHOW UP ON THE LDEO SEISMOGRAPH.
There is NO such disturbance of building shaking magnitude in the LDEO SEISMOGRAPH prior to the collapse of the tower.
http://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/LCSN/Eq/20010...TC_LDEO_KIM.pdf
Arthur
The WTC was sitting on BEDROCK.
Bedrock in NYC is >60 ft below ground level (which is why there is the BATHTUB)
There is NO WAY something happens massive enough for it to create enough energy to shake a building approx 1 mile away, but NOT shake that building.
OR SHOW UP ON THE LDEO SEISMOGRAPH.
There is NO such disturbance of building shaking magnitude in the LDEO SEISMOGRAPH prior to the collapse of the tower.
http://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/LCSN/Eq/20010...TC_LDEO_KIM.pdf
Arthur
I think we have no idea what the source is of that movie, distance of the camera etc, the owner should be contacted.
I can't open your page but I remember those seismic graphs. Here they are again
http://media.popularmechanics.com/images/0...1-graph2-lg.jpg
I once tried to fit it with that shake. When the rubble hits the ground you see also a similar camera shake but with less amplitude. The amplitude of shaking could be frequency dependent of course, although I'm no specialist interpreting these graphs I can only say
1) First shaking is “correlated” with a piece of debris that falls out of the impact area.
2) Debris that leaves the building is correlated with collapse initiation.
3) 2nd shaking is correlated with the demolition wave hitting the ground.
I remember that Greening told that only 2nd stage of collapse caused the major peaks that should mean that the 2nd shaking should indeed be the big amplitude area of the red line (that 2nd stage takes a while then, over 10 seconds, that is of course the parts of M14 first hitting the ground and then the rest of the building that is peeled out in a sequence) and then the first shaking can't be fitted unless it is very frequency dependent...
If we look at 1) then I'm really wondering what the chance is that someone hits the camera 10 seconds before collapse initiation, and also that at the same time a piece of debris leaves the building, that's a product of some chances.
I can't open your page but I remember those seismic graphs. Here they are again
http://media.popularmechanics.com/images/0...1-graph2-lg.jpg
I once tried to fit it with that shake. When the rubble hits the ground you see also a similar camera shake but with less amplitude. The amplitude of shaking could be frequency dependent of course, although I'm no specialist interpreting these graphs I can only say
1) First shaking is “correlated” with a piece of debris that falls out of the impact area.
2) Debris that leaves the building is correlated with collapse initiation.
3) 2nd shaking is correlated with the demolition wave hitting the ground.
I remember that Greening told that only 2nd stage of collapse caused the major peaks that should mean that the 2nd shaking should indeed be the big amplitude area of the red line (that 2nd stage takes a while then, over 10 seconds, that is of course the parts of M14 first hitting the ground and then the rest of the building that is peeled out in a sequence) and then the first shaking can't be fitted unless it is very frequency dependent...
If we look at 1) then I'm really wondering what the chance is that someone hits the camera 10 seconds before collapse initiation, and also that at the same time a piece of debris leaves the building, that's a product of some chances.
QUOTE (David B. Benson+Apr 15 2007, 11:21 PM)
B & V produce a crush-down differential equation by homogenizing an entire tower, so that, in the model, no longer are there discrete floors. This offers considerable ease in the programming effort required to determine the energy consumption from the data. But more, it offers a somewhat better explanation of the data for the first 0.8 seconds of measurements for WTC 1, which is just the time it takes for the south edge of one actual floor to be impacted. Recall that the top block tilts to the south at the beginning. Before that, no actual floors are impacted and yet the measured fall is certainly slower than free-fall.
Here is the data. The first column is the time, the second the actual measurements that NEU-FONZE made and estimated the error as +-0.2 m, the third is the corresponding drop produced by my computer program.
0.0 0.0 0.00
0.2 0.1 0.14
0.4 0.4 0.55
0.6 0.9 1.23
0.8 2.0 2.18
and for this portion of the data the acceleration is about 0.7g. Which is noticeably less than free-fall. So something was consuming energy and slowing the fall. We know that the ovrerall energy consumption was about 330 J/kg, which is lots. Where is it going? Not into concrete comminution, since no office floor is struck before 0.8 seconds. Well, possibly in the core some concrete comminution was occurring. No exterior wall sections have yet been tossed to the side, and indeed this does not appear to have occurred for the entire three seconds of measurements. So what process was consuming about 330 J/kg?
I suggest friction between the wedged-in upper portion of the exterior walls and the wedged-out lower portion of the exterior walls, together with some destruction of connection between exterior wall sections. This process is indeed continuous throughout the entire observed portion of the collapse.
Qualitatively this looks fine. But does this process really consume about 0.25--0.3 GJ in the first 0.8 seconds?
Comments, please.
Compression of the side of the columns has to destroy the hinge joint for the buildings to fall, that would provide resistance at that point.
The back side has already buckled the inside of the buckled beam compresses and the beam fails that would require a lot of energy.
That is just a guess, but it seems plausible for such high energy consumption.
Here is the data. The first column is the time, the second the actual measurements that NEU-FONZE made and estimated the error as +-0.2 m, the third is the corresponding drop produced by my computer program.
0.0 0.0 0.00
0.2 0.1 0.14
0.4 0.4 0.55
0.6 0.9 1.23
0.8 2.0 2.18
and for this portion of the data the acceleration is about 0.7g. Which is noticeably less than free-fall. So something was consuming energy and slowing the fall. We know that the ovrerall energy consumption was about 330 J/kg, which is lots. Where is it going? Not into concrete comminution, since no office floor is struck before 0.8 seconds. Well, possibly in the core some concrete comminution was occurring. No exterior wall sections have yet been tossed to the side, and indeed this does not appear to have occurred for the entire three seconds of measurements. So what process was consuming about 330 J/kg?
I suggest friction between the wedged-in upper portion of the exterior walls and the wedged-out lower portion of the exterior walls, together with some destruction of connection between exterior wall sections. This process is indeed continuous throughout the entire observed portion of the collapse.
Qualitatively this looks fine. But does this process really consume about 0.25--0.3 GJ in the first 0.8 seconds?
Comments, please.
Compression of the side of the columns has to destroy the hinge joint for the buildings to fall, that would provide resistance at that point.
The back side has already buckled the inside of the buckled beam compresses and the beam fails that would require a lot of energy.
That is just a guess, but it seems plausible for such high energy consumption.
It is quite clear that there is NO CORRELATION with that video shaking and the Seismograph readings.
NONE.
You can't shake a building that far away, for a 2 second period, and NOT have it picked up by the Seismograph.
Arthur
NONE.
You can't shake a building that far away, for a 2 second period, and NOT have it picked up by the Seismograph.
Arthur
QUOTE (adoucette+Apr 16 2007, 04:55 AM)
So is this your LATEST NIT????
So now you think it was the ELEVATOR MECHANICS?
ROTFLMAO
Arthur
Just for Arthurs I will repost Ace (fly by night) elevators.
On 9/11 instead of trying to save people as emergency plans called for Ace Elevator supervisors ordered the employees away from the area and made them look like cowards.
So right after that explosion, we were ordered to leave the building.
There was a story that came out in USA Today that said we all ran out like cowards. The reporter, Dennis Couchin, has been advised as to what had happened and he’s going to rewrite his story. I’m just putting this in right now because I feel it’s necessary, because the men that were there in ’93, most of them, a lot of them were still there.
http://www.recordonline.com/adayinseptember/jones.htm
http://www.recordonline.com/adayinseptember/jones.htm
USA TODAY found:
Elevator mechanics left the buildings.
“Eighty elevator mechanics were on duty in the towers that morning, many just a few steps from people who needed rescue. However, the mechanics, fearing for their safety, evacuated on their own initiative when the south tower was struck at 9:03 a.m. A supervisor from the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which owned the World Trade Center, radioed the mechanics about 45 minutes later to say firefighters needed their help. The south tower collapsed as two supervisors were on their way back. “
“But the Port Authority says the emergency plan called for mechanics to stay and help with rescues. "The manuals consider many emergency scenarios and describe the role of the mechanics in detail in responding to them," Port Authority spokesman Allen Morrison says. "There was no situation in which the mechanics were advised or instructed to leave on their own. They were, depending on the situation, to be dispatched to various emergency posts or to respond to various passenger entrapments and to assist police, fire and other rescue personnel."
http://www.usatoday.com/news/sept11/2002-0...ator-usat_x.htm
http://www.usatoday.com/news/sept11/2001/1...t-mechanics.htm
The same 50 heroes working for Otis that saved people in 1993 leave people to die in 2001 (and the 30 plus hired guns for the elevator modernization work).
http://www.usatoday.com/news/sept11/2001/1...t-mechanics.htm
The same 50 heroes working for Otis that saved people in 1993 leave people to die in 2001 (and the 30 plus hired guns for the elevator modernization work).
• Newly installed safety devices condemned many people to death.
“To comply with building codes, the World Trade Center since 1996 had been adding locks that made it impossible for passengers to force open the doors of stalled elevators. These locks, called "door restrictors," had been added to about half of the 198 elevators in the twin towers. Nobody is known to have escaped from an elevator locked by a door restrictor. The World Trade Center followed a long-established approach to elevator rescues: Leave people inside stalled elevators until professionals can perform rescues. The elevators had three mechanisms, including the restrictors, designed to prevent people from accidentally falling down elevator shafts. An untold number were still trapped when the buildings collapsed.”
http://www.usatoday.com/news/sept11/2002-0...ator-usat_x.htm
USA TODAY based its estimate of at least 200 dying in elevators on interviews with survivors, victims' families and emergency personnel, as well as photographs, videos and architectural plans. The information was analyzed in a database. The death toll could have been as high as 400, although the exact number of deaths cannot be known with certainty.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/sept11/2002-0...ator-usat_x.htm
Why were the elevator mechanics ordered to leave the building when they were the only ones able to open the doors and left 200-400 people to die?
And it is more then that. We have the elevator mechanics claiming they were ordered to leave. We have the Ace management claiming they left on their own and there were no set procedures in place.
The Port Authority claims not only were set procedures in place, none called for the elevator maintenance workers to leave.
200 – 400 people die and some were feet away from the people that could save them.
Then the only investigation is by a newspaper (blaming the mechanics). I cannot find an investigation in the NIST, FEMA or 9/11 commission reports. Why?
This is the one area the NIST JOKERS could have made a difference saving lives and they do not even address the "door restrictor" issue!
You mean WHY were they ordered to leave the building AFTER A SECOND JET HAD BEEN FLOWN INTO THE SECOND TOWER AND there were REPORTS CIRCULATING OF A POSSIBLE THIRD JET?
Beats me.
It does of course put the INCREDIBLE BRAVERY of the many fire, police and other people who stayed into perspective.
You mean WHY were they ordered to leave the building AFTER A SECOND JET HAD BEEN FLOWN INTO THE SECOND TOWER AND there were REPORTS CIRCULATING OF A POSSIBLE THIRD JET?
Beats me.
It does of course put the INCREDIBLE BRAVERY of the many fire, police and other people who stayed into perspective.
Then the only investigation is by a newspaper. I cannot find an investigation in the NIST, FEMA or 9/11 commission reports. Why?
This is the one area the NIST JOKERS could have made a difference saving lives and they do not even address the "door restrictor" issue!
So your point is the ELEVATOR MECHANICS were IN ON IT?
You GOT to be kidding me.
As to the Door Restrictors, this requirement was ADDED to building codes TO SAVE LIVES.
Yes, in the case of the WTC towers it BACK-FIRED, but that does not mean in regards to these door locks that they aren't STILL a good idea.
We can't have regulations that ONLY deal with what happened in the WTC towers.
Further, if NISTs other recommendations are followed, (ie. the SFRM recommendations) then the collapse does not happen and the people ARE rescued.
Arthur
You mean WHY were they ordered to leave the building AFTER A SECOND JET HAD BEEN FLOWN INTO THE SECOND TOWER AND there were REPORTS CIRCULATING OF A POSSIBLE THIRD JET?
Beats me.
It does of course put the INCREDIBLE BRAVERY of the many fire, police and other people who stayed into perspective.
As to the Door Restrictors, this requirement was ADDED to building codes TO SAVE LIVES.
Yes, in the case of the WTC towers it BACK-FIRED, but that does not mean in regards to these door locks that they aren't STILL a good idea.
We can't have regulations that ONLY deal with what happened in the WTC towers.
Further, if NISTs other recommendations are followed, (ie. the SFRM recommendations) then the collapse does not happen and the people ARE rescued.
No Arthurs, it's not that simple.
The door restrictors were on the elevator roofs, so only an elevator mechanic could reach it. Door restrictor are available that can be accessed from the front of the elevator by any rescue personnel. The restrictors were also controversial because many of the engineers disagreed with their use in a building that had already been attacked by terrorist.
They could have recommended only allowing restrictors with front access or not at all in buildings that could be terrorist targets. The amount of people restrictors have saved appears to be very few (not much room between the door and wall).
And then no investigation of the one area that could easily have saved lives by NIST, FEMA or the 9/11 commission ( I wonder how many other possible terrorist targets have door restrictors on the elevator roof).
So your point is the ELEVATOR MECHANICS were IN ON IT?
You GOT to be kidding me.
Arthur
I don’t think there is a chance in hell the regular mechanics (former Otis Mechanics) would be in on it. The extra mechanics for the upgrades is a possibility. It was stated that only 60 percent of the mechanics were in the lobby when ordered out. That leaves quit a few extra mechanics to make sure everything goes as planned.
The remaining mechanics did not rescue anyone as reported by USA Today.
More important then the mechanics being “in on it” would be that the mechanics would need to be removed from the crime scene so they could not report explosives or thermite in the elevator shafts when trying to rescue people if the towers were CD'ed
THIS JUST IN.
REASONWHY BELIEVES ELEVATOR MECHANICS ARE THE REAL TERRORISTS.
(Film at 11)
What a putz.
Arthur
I am not afraid of what I might have to face. Not at all. I look at facts the best I can and try to be make honest appraisals, no matter which way it might go.
The Hoboken audio sounds authentic, IMO. However, this longer version of the video you reference sounds authentic also.
But I notice it has practically no sounds of the collapse being heard; you can barely hear that at all. The microphone seemed to be picking up the nearby helicopter and local sirens fine, but hardly anything of WTC1 going down came through. And I think your estimation of the distance is about right.
I've experienced some mikes that zero-in on what is close by but have a tendency to squelch out things farther away. Not all, but some.
As a musician who lives and breathe sounds all the time, this is an interesting problem. I wonder what acoustic experts might say about these two videos' audios giving such different playbacks of the same event.
Bear in mind, I still believe the Hoboken audio is authentic.
FOR THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH BUT THE GIFT OF GOD IS ETERNAL LIFE THROUGH CHRIST JESUS OUR LORD
Craig, what about the comments of Bob and Bri?
Craig, the only honest position you can take on this matter is that there are some unexplained sounds heard on the Hoboken video. The sounds are in no certain way, proof of explosions in the north tower, and no basis for accusing anyone but the hijackers who flew the planes into the buildings.
So now you think it was the ELEVATOR MECHANICS?
ROTFLMAO
Arthur
Just for Arthurs I will repost Ace (fly by night) elevators.
On 9/11 instead of trying to save people as emergency plans called for Ace Elevator supervisors ordered the employees away from the area and made them look like cowards.
QUOTE
So right after that explosion, we were ordered to leave the building.
There was a story that came out in USA Today that said we all ran out like cowards. The reporter, Dennis Couchin, has been advised as to what had happened and he’s going to rewrite his story. I’m just putting this in right now because I feel it’s necessary, because the men that were there in ’93, most of them, a lot of them were still there.
http://www.recordonline.com/adayinseptember/jones.htm
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
So right after that explosion, we were ordered to leave the building. There was a story that came out in USA Today that said we all ran out like cowards. The reporter, Dennis Couchin, has been advised as to what had happened and he’s going to rewrite his story. I’m just putting this in right now because I feel it’s necessary, because the men that were there in ’93, most of them, a lot of them were still there. |
http://www.recordonline.com/adayinseptember/jones.htm
USA TODAY found:
Elevator mechanics left the buildings.
“Eighty elevator mechanics were on duty in the towers that morning, many just a few steps from people who needed rescue. However, the mechanics, fearing for their safety, evacuated on their own initiative when the south tower was struck at 9:03 a.m. A supervisor from the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which owned the World Trade Center, radioed the mechanics about 45 minutes later to say firefighters needed their help. The south tower collapsed as two supervisors were on their way back. “
“But the Port Authority says the emergency plan called for mechanics to stay and help with rescues. "The manuals consider many emergency scenarios and describe the role of the mechanics in detail in responding to them," Port Authority spokesman Allen Morrison says. "There was no situation in which the mechanics were advised or instructed to leave on their own. They were, depending on the situation, to be dispatched to various emergency posts or to respond to various passenger entrapments and to assist police, fire and other rescue personnel."
http://www.usatoday.com/news/sept11/2002-0...ator-usat_x.htm
QUOTE
When the World Trade Center was bombed in 1993, Otis Elevator's mechanics led the rescue of 500 people trapped in elevators. Some mechanics were dropped onto the roofs of the twin towers by helicopter. Others, carrying 50-pound oxygen tanks on their backs, climbed through smoke to machine rooms high in the towers. On Sept. 11, the elevator mechanics — many of the same men involved in the rescues in 1993 — left the buildings after the second jet struck, nearly an hour before the first building collapsed.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/sept11/2001/1...t-mechanics.htm
The same 50 heroes working for Otis that saved people in 1993 leave people to die in 2001 (and the 30 plus hired guns for the elevator modernization work).
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| When the World Trade Center was bombed in 1993, Otis Elevator's mechanics led the rescue of 500 people trapped in elevators. Some mechanics were dropped onto the roofs of the twin towers by helicopter. Others, carrying 50-pound oxygen tanks on their backs, climbed through smoke to machine rooms high in the towers. On Sept. 11, the elevator mechanics — many of the same men involved in the rescues in 1993 — left the buildings after the second jet struck, nearly an hour before the first building collapsed. |
http://www.usatoday.com/news/sept11/2001/1...t-mechanics.htm
The same 50 heroes working for Otis that saved people in 1993 leave people to die in 2001 (and the 30 plus hired guns for the elevator modernization work).
• Newly installed safety devices condemned many people to death.
“To comply with building codes, the World Trade Center since 1996 had been adding locks that made it impossible for passengers to force open the doors of stalled elevators. These locks, called "door restrictors," had been added to about half of the 198 elevators in the twin towers. Nobody is known to have escaped from an elevator locked by a door restrictor. The World Trade Center followed a long-established approach to elevator rescues: Leave people inside stalled elevators until professionals can perform rescues. The elevators had three mechanisms, including the restrictors, designed to prevent people from accidentally falling down elevator shafts. An untold number were still trapped when the buildings collapsed.”
http://www.usatoday.com/news/sept11/2002-0...ator-usat_x.htm
QUOTE
USA TODAY based its estimate of at least 200 dying in elevators on interviews with survivors, victims' families and emergency personnel, as well as photographs, videos and architectural plans. The information was analyzed in a database. The death toll could have been as high as 400, although the exact number of deaths cannot be known with certainty.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/sept11/2002-0...ator-usat_x.htm
Why were the elevator mechanics ordered to leave the building when they were the only ones able to open the doors and left 200-400 people to die?
And it is more then that. We have the elevator mechanics claiming they were ordered to leave. We have the Ace management claiming they left on their own and there were no set procedures in place.
The Port Authority claims not only were set procedures in place, none called for the elevator maintenance workers to leave.
200 – 400 people die and some were feet away from the people that could save them.
Then the only investigation is by a newspaper (blaming the mechanics). I cannot find an investigation in the NIST, FEMA or 9/11 commission reports. Why?
This is the one area the NIST JOKERS could have made a difference saving lives and they do not even address the "door restrictor" issue!
Holy mother of god. Let me see if I understand this...
First it was a backpack nuke. Or two.
Then it was det cord carefully concealed as computer cable. (Wonder what happened when a person tried to plug their PC into it?)
Then it was thermite. (Teams of dozens with complete access to the Towers)
Now it's the elevator company.
Wow. That is pretty......... far fetched boys. that would make how many people complacent in killing 3000+ people, and not one person in there anywhere willing to come forward and hang those responsible? riiiiiiight.
I am impressed that so many Americans are willing to kill 3000+ people just to make a buck. Says a lot about our society, eh?
Or not.
The conspiracy grows.... keep it coming boys, the stories are getting better and better.
MM
First it was a backpack nuke. Or two.
Then it was det cord carefully concealed as computer cable. (Wonder what happened when a person tried to plug their PC into it?)
Then it was thermite. (Teams of dozens with complete access to the Towers)
Now it's the elevator company.
Wow. That is pretty......... far fetched boys. that would make how many people complacent in killing 3000+ people, and not one person in there anywhere willing to come forward and hang those responsible? riiiiiiight.
I am impressed that so many Americans are willing to kill 3000+ people just to make a buck. Says a lot about our society, eh?
Or not.
The conspiracy grows.... keep it coming boys, the stories are getting better and better.
MM
QUOTE
Why were the elevator mechanics ordered to leave the building
You mean WHY were they ordered to leave the building AFTER A SECOND JET HAD BEEN FLOWN INTO THE SECOND TOWER AND there were REPORTS CIRCULATING OF A POSSIBLE THIRD JET?
Beats me.
It does of course put the INCREDIBLE BRAVERY of the many fire, police and other people who stayed into perspective.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| Why were the elevator mechanics ordered to leave the building |
You mean WHY were they ordered to leave the building AFTER A SECOND JET HAD BEEN FLOWN INTO THE SECOND TOWER AND there were REPORTS CIRCULATING OF A POSSIBLE THIRD JET?
Beats me.
It does of course put the INCREDIBLE BRAVERY of the many fire, police and other people who stayed into perspective.
Then the only investigation is by a newspaper. I cannot find an investigation in the NIST, FEMA or 9/11 commission reports. Why?
This is the one area the NIST JOKERS could have made a difference saving lives and they do not even address the "door restrictor" issue!
So your point is the ELEVATOR MECHANICS were IN ON IT?
You GOT to be kidding me.
As to the Door Restrictors, this requirement was ADDED to building codes TO SAVE LIVES.
Yes, in the case of the WTC towers it BACK-FIRED, but that does not mean in regards to these door locks that they aren't STILL a good idea.
We can't have regulations that ONLY deal with what happened in the WTC towers.
Further, if NISTs other recommendations are followed, (ie. the SFRM recommendations) then the collapse does not happen and the people ARE rescued.
Arthur
QUOTE (Masked Marauder+Apr 16 2007, 03:23 PM)
Holy mother of god. Let me see if I understand this...
First it was a backpack nuke. Or two.
Then it was det cord carefully concealed as computer cable. (Wonder what happened when a person tried to plug their PC into it?)
Then it was thermite. (Teams of dozens with complete access to the Towers)
Now it's the elevator company.
Wow. That is pretty......... far fetched boys. that would make how many people complacent in killing 3000+ people, and not one person in there anywhere willing to come forward and hang those responsible? riiiiiiight.
I am impressed that so many Americans are willing to kill 3000+ people just to make a buck. Says a lot about our society, eh?
Or not.
The conspiracy grows.... keep it coming boys, the stories are getting better and better.
MM
killers don't care about the beliefs or creed or cereal preference or mother's maiden name of their victims.
"american" is just a word. it has far less meaning today, than it did 50 years ago.
knowing what did happen is not as easy as knowing what didn't. knowing what didn't happen in no way tells us what did happen. wild speculation is warranted.
First it was a backpack nuke. Or two.
Then it was det cord carefully concealed as computer cable. (Wonder what happened when a person tried to plug their PC into it?)
Then it was thermite. (Teams of dozens with complete access to the Towers)
Now it's the elevator company.
Wow. That is pretty......... far fetched boys. that would make how many people complacent in killing 3000+ people, and not one person in there anywhere willing to come forward and hang those responsible? riiiiiiight.
I am impressed that so many Americans are willing to kill 3000+ people just to make a buck. Says a lot about our society, eh?
Or not.
The conspiracy grows.... keep it coming boys, the stories are getting better and better.
MM
killers don't care about the beliefs or creed or cereal preference or mother's maiden name of their victims.
"american" is just a word. it has far less meaning today, than it did 50 years ago.
knowing what did happen is not as easy as knowing what didn't. knowing what didn't happen in no way tells us what did happen. wild speculation is warranted.
QUOTE (newton+Apr 16 2007, 01:48 PM)
wild speculation is warranted.
But BELIEVING in wild speculations without finding ANY PROOF to support them is moronic.
Arthur
But BELIEVING in wild speculations without finding ANY PROOF to support them is moronic.
Arthur
newton
No, it isn't. Any speculation must still conform to the known laws of physics and to all available evidence. That, of course, means that speculation about explosives and explosions IS NOT JUSTIFIED due to the total lack of supporting evidence and the elimination of the possibility in the very first days of investigation by the FBI and BATF(AND THE BOMB SNIFFING DOGS). After all, bombs were the FIRST thing they looked for, given the 93 bombing. Bomb theories were also the first theories tio be eliminated as possibilities. By the time NIST became involved it was assumed that all intelligent and honest investigators would know this, thus the possibility was given less than a paragraph in NIST's final report, it didn't even rate that.
Grumpy
QUOTE
wild speculation is warranted.
No, it isn't. Any speculation must still conform to the known laws of physics and to all available evidence. That, of course, means that speculation about explosives and explosions IS NOT JUSTIFIED due to the total lack of supporting evidence and the elimination of the possibility in the very first days of investigation by the FBI and BATF(AND THE BOMB SNIFFING DOGS). After all, bombs were the FIRST thing they looked for, given the 93 bombing. Bomb theories were also the first theories tio be eliminated as possibilities. By the time NIST became involved it was assumed that all intelligent and honest investigators would know this, thus the possibility was given less than a paragraph in NIST's final report, it didn't even rate that.
Grumpy
This has probably been mentioned a couple of times, but did anyone see the South Park episode parodying the 9/11 conspiracy theories.
Sounds like some people around hear
QUOTE
Cartman: So now, the inevitable question: if terrorists didn't cause 9/11, who did? (begins to use his fingers to show the numbers as he says them) Remember that there are in fact two towers. Two minus one is one; one one - 11; two minus one is one; one one, and there are nine members on Silverstein's board of directors. That's nine-one-one. Nine-eleven. And take 2 - 1 + 9/11 and you get 12, which leads us all to the mastermind of the 9/11 attacks. (click. Kyle now appears superimposed on the 9/11 picture already onscreen) Kyle!
Kyle: Me??
Cartman: Twelve contains the numbers one and two, just like the toilet yesterday where somebody went number two instead of number one! And one and two with 911 and you get 914! Drop the 4 and it's 91! Exactly the score Kyle got on his spelling test twelve days after 9/11! Who has the most to gain from 9/11?! Kyle! Who was nowhere to be found the morning the towers fell?! Kyle! Who dropped the deuce in the urinal?! Kyle! But probably the most damning of all is the evidence seen in this photo of Tower 2! (clicks, and another shot of the Twin Towers is shown) When I zoomed in I saw what first appeared to be a blur, (zooms in on the picture, which just becomes pixilated) but when I computer-enhanced it, (the pixilation disappears as the picture sharpens - it's a drawing of an evil Kyle with a large, sharp knife in his right hand) You almost got away with it, you sneaky butt hole.
Kyle: Me??
Cartman: Twelve contains the numbers one and two, just like the toilet yesterday where somebody went number two instead of number one! And one and two with 911 and you get 914! Drop the 4 and it's 91! Exactly the score Kyle got on his spelling test twelve days after 9/11! Who has the most to gain from 9/11?! Kyle! Who was nowhere to be found the morning the towers fell?! Kyle! Who dropped the deuce in the urinal?! Kyle! But probably the most damning of all is the evidence seen in this photo of Tower 2! (clicks, and another shot of the Twin Towers is shown) When I zoomed in I saw what first appeared to be a blur, (zooms in on the picture, which just becomes pixilated) but when I computer-enhanced it, (the pixilation disappears as the picture sharpens - it's a drawing of an evil Kyle with a large, sharp knife in his right hand) You almost got away with it, you sneaky butt hole.
Sounds like some people around hear
QUOTE (adoucette+Apr 16 2007, 08:00 PM)
But BELIEVING in wild speculations without finding ANY PROOF to support them is moronic.
Arthur
yeah, like the nineteen hijackers bull.
Arthur
yeah, like the nineteen hijackers bull.
At collapse initiation, WTC 1 tilted hinged on the north wall.
4 arc-degrees center dropped 2.22 m, south wall dropped 4.45 m, at time 0.8+ seconds.
8 arc-degrees center dropped 4.43 m, south wall dropped 8.87 m, at time 1.2- seconds.
At 4 arc-degrees already 0.306 GJ was consumed.
At 8 arc-degrees, 0.6 GJ was consumed.
The point is that at 0.8+ seconds, relatively little of an actual floor had been impacted. Yet some energy sinks consumed 0.3 GJ. What were those?
4 arc-degrees center dropped 2.22 m, south wall dropped 4.45 m, at time 0.8+ seconds.
8 arc-degrees center dropped 4.43 m, south wall dropped 8.87 m, at time 1.2- seconds.
At 4 arc-degrees already 0.306 GJ was consumed.
At 8 arc-degrees, 0.6 GJ was consumed.
The point is that at 0.8+ seconds, relatively little of an actual floor had been impacted. Yet some energy sinks consumed 0.3 GJ. What were those?
QUOTE (adoucette+Apr 16 2007, 07:28 AM)
You mean WHY were they ordered to leave the building AFTER A SECOND JET HAD BEEN FLOWN INTO THE SECOND TOWER AND there were REPORTS CIRCULATING OF A POSSIBLE THIRD JET?
Beats me.
It does of course put the INCREDIBLE BRAVERY of the many fire, police and other people who stayed into perspective.
As to the Door Restrictors, this requirement was ADDED to building codes TO SAVE LIVES.
Yes, in the case of the WTC towers it BACK-FIRED, but that does not mean in regards to these door locks that they aren't STILL a good idea.
We can't have regulations that ONLY deal with what happened in the WTC towers.
Further, if NISTs other recommendations are followed, (ie. the SFRM recommendations) then the collapse does not happen and the people ARE rescued.
No Arthurs, it's not that simple.
The door restrictors were on the elevator roofs, so only an elevator mechanic could reach it. Door restrictor are available that can be accessed from the front of the elevator by any rescue personnel. The restrictors were also controversial because many of the engineers disagreed with their use in a building that had already been attacked by terrorist.
They could have recommended only allowing restrictors with front access or not at all in buildings that could be terrorist targets. The amount of people restrictors have saved appears to be very few (not much room between the door and wall).
And then no investigation of the one area that could easily have saved lives by NIST, FEMA or the 9/11 commission ( I wonder how many other possible terrorist targets have door restrictors on the elevator roof).
QUOTE (adoucette+Apr 16 2007, 07:28 AM)
So your point is the ELEVATOR MECHANICS were IN ON IT?
You GOT to be kidding me.
Arthur
I don’t think there is a chance in hell the regular mechanics (former Otis Mechanics) would be in on it. The extra mechanics for the upgrades is a possibility. It was stated that only 60 percent of the mechanics were in the lobby when ordered out. That leaves quit a few extra mechanics to make sure everything goes as planned.
The remaining mechanics did not rescue anyone as reported by USA Today.
More important then the mechanics being “in on it” would be that the mechanics would need to be removed from the crime scene so they could not report explosives or thermite in the elevator shafts when trying to rescue people if the towers were CD'ed
THIS JUST IN.
REASONWHY BELIEVES ELEVATOR MECHANICS ARE THE REAL TERRORISTS.
(Film at 11)
What a putz.
Arthur
QUOTE (Capracus+Apr 16 2007, 02:48 AM)
What I believe is not based on a one sided view of the facts. A good prosecutor would not bring such a weak case before a jury. You show one video containing alleged sounds from who knows where and you expect reasonable people to accept it as fact when it is contradicted by other videos containing no such sounds. Even a mediocre defense attorney would make a laughing stock of your prosecutor with the abundance of contradictory evidence. Speaking of contradictory evidence, here is a longer version of the rooftop video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ujw1FPq0pNM
It was shot by a film maker named Etienne Sauret. The location of the camera appears to be about a mile to the north east of WTC 1 judging by the camera angle and the 5 second delay of the collapse sounds. This footage is uninterrupted and the duration long enough to hear any sounds allegedly heard on the Hoboken video.
Because your afraid you might have to face the reality of your position.
Only if they ignore the rest of the facts. God, I'd hate to think they would allow people like you onto a jury.
I am not afraid of what I might have to face. Not at all. I look at facts the best I can and try to be make honest appraisals, no matter which way it might go.
The Hoboken audio sounds authentic, IMO. However, this longer version of the video you reference sounds authentic also.
But I notice it has practically no sounds of the collapse being heard; you can barely hear that at all. The microphone seemed to be picking up the nearby helicopter and local sirens fine, but hardly anything of WTC1 going down came through. And I think your estimation of the distance is about right.
I've experienced some mikes that zero-in on what is close by but have a tendency to squelch out things farther away. Not all, but some.
As a musician who lives and breathe sounds all the time, this is an interesting problem. I wonder what acoustic experts might say about these two videos' audios giving such different playbacks of the same event.
Bear in mind, I still believe the Hoboken audio is authentic.
FOR THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH BUT THE GIFT OF GOD IS ETERNAL LIFE THROUGH CHRIST JESUS OUR LORD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ujw1FPq0pNM
It was shot by a film maker named Etienne Sauret. The location of the camera appears to be about a mile to the north east of WTC 1 judging by the camera angle and the 5 second delay of the collapse sounds. This footage is uninterrupted and the duration long enough to hear any sounds allegedly heard on the Hoboken video.
Because your afraid you might have to face the reality of your position.
Only if they ignore the rest of the facts. God, I'd hate to think they would allow people like you onto a jury.
I am not afraid of what I might have to face. Not at all. I look at facts the best I can and try to be make honest appraisals, no matter which way it might go.
The Hoboken audio sounds authentic, IMO. However, this longer version of the video you reference sounds authentic also.
But I notice it has practically no sounds of the collapse being heard; you can barely hear that at all. The microphone seemed to be picking up the nearby helicopter and local sirens fine, but hardly anything of WTC1 going down came through. And I think your estimation of the distance is about right.
I've experienced some mikes that zero-in on what is close by but have a tendency to squelch out things farther away. Not all, but some.
As a musician who lives and breathe sounds all the time, this is an interesting problem. I wonder what acoustic experts might say about these two videos' audios giving such different playbacks of the same event.
Bear in mind, I still believe the Hoboken audio is authentic.
FOR THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH BUT THE GIFT OF GOD IS ETERNAL LIFE THROUGH CHRIST JESUS OUR LORD
here's dr. mark heath videotaping on the scene post collapse. link to youtube
he hears explosions going off. the videotape mic, or digitization isn't sensitive enough to distinguish these sounds from the background roar.
he hears explosions going off. the videotape mic, or digitization isn't sensitive enough to distinguish these sounds from the background roar.
QUOTE (quicknthedead+Apr 17 2007, 02:54 AM)
I am not afraid of what I might have to face. Not at all. I look at facts the best I can and try to be make honest appraisals, no matter which way it might go.
The Hoboken audio sounds authentic, IMO. However, this longer version of the video you reference sounds authentic also.
But I notice it has practically no sounds of the collapse being heard; you can barely hear that at all. The microphone seemed to be picking up the nearby helicopter and local sirens fine, but hardly anything of WTC1 going down came through. And I think your estimation of the distance is about right.
I've experienced some mikes that zero-in on what is close by but have a tendency to squelch out things farther away. Not all, but some.
As a musician who lives and breathe sounds all the time, this is an interesting problem. I wonder what acoustic experts might say about these two videos' audios giving such different playbacks of the same event.
Bear in mind, I still believe the Hoboken audio is authentic.
FOR THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH BUT THE GIFT OF GOD IS ETERNAL LIFE THROUGH CHRIST JESUS OUR LORD
Craig, what about the comments of Bob and Bri?
QUOTE
rayna said...
Over the years there have been speculations that there were several explosions before one of the towers collapsed. Did either Bri or Bob hear explosions?
Ray
10/14/2006 6:22 PM
What We Saw said...
Neither of us heard any explosions other than the planes crashing into the towers. The collapse of each tower was accompanied by a loud rumble which sounded and felt like an earthquake.
They were only a quarter of a mile from the towers. Their video camera was able to pick up all of the accompanying sounds of the event, so obviously they were personally in a position to hear any sounds of pre-collapse explosions if they had occurred.Over the years there have been speculations that there were several explosions before one of the towers collapsed. Did either Bri or Bob hear explosions?
Ray
10/14/2006 6:22 PM
What We Saw said...
Neither of us heard any explosions other than the planes crashing into the towers. The collapse of each tower was accompanied by a loud rumble which sounded and felt like an earthquake.
Craig, the only honest position you can take on this matter is that there are some unexplained sounds heard on the Hoboken video. The sounds are in no certain way, proof of explosions in the north tower, and no basis for accusing anyone but the hijackers who flew the planes into the buildings.
QUOTE (Capracus+Apr 16 2007, 10:29 PM)
Craig, what about the comments of Bob and Bri? They were only a quarter of a mile from the towers. Their video camera was able to pick up all of the accompanying sounds of the event, so obviously they were personally in a position to hear any sounds of pre-collapse explosions if they had occurred.
Craig, the only honest position you can take on this matter is that there are some unexplained sounds heard on the Hoboken video. The sounds are in no certain way, proof of explosions in the north tower, and no basis for accusing anyone but the hijackers who flew the planes into the buildings.
The sounds on the Hoboken video peak the meter before and during the WTC1 event. These peak levels are distinct.
What is the explanation for them, especially before the event?
Craig, the only honest position you can take on this matter is that there are some unexplained sounds heard on the Hoboken video. The sounds are in no certain way, proof of explosions in the north tower, and no basis for accusing anyone but the hijackers who flew the planes into the buildings.
The sounds on the Hoboken video peak the meter before and during the WTC1 event. These peak levels are distinct.
What is the explanation for them, especially before the event?
QUOTE (newton+Apr 17 2007, 04:35 AM)
here's dr. mark heath videotaping on the scene post collapse. link to youtube
he hears explosions going off. the videotape mic, or digitization isn't sensitive enough to distinguish these sounds from the background roar.
Not surprising since there were cars full of gasoline in the basement parking levels.
From a Dangerous Worksite:
he hears explosions going off. the videotape mic, or digitization isn't sensitive enough to distinguish these sounds from the background roar.
Not surprising since there were cars full of gasoline in the basement parking levels.
From a Dangerous Worksite:
QUOTE
The potential for explosions was always present at the site. In one case, a fuel tank with tens of thousands of gallons of diesel fuel was buried seven stories below ground. With smoldering fires, a rupture could have been disastrous. Once workers located the tank, it was safely emptied, and the fuel was removed from the site.
The parking garage under the WTC held nearly 2,000 automobiles, each tank holding an estimated five gallons of gasoline. When recovery workers reached the cars, they found that some had exploded and burned while others remained intact.
Building 6, the former site of OSHA’s Manhattan Area Office, housed many federal agencies, including the U.S. Customs Service. More than 1.2 million rounds of their ammunition, plus explosives and weapons, were stored in a third-floor vault to support their firing range. OSHA worked closely with other government agencies to determine what protective measures were necessary so that the ammunition could be safely removed.
The parking garage under the WTC held nearly 2,000 automobiles, each tank holding an estimated five gallons of gasoline. When recovery workers reached the cars, they found that some had exploded and burned while others remained intact.
Building 6, the former site of OSHA’s Manhattan Area Office, housed many federal agencies, including the U.S. Customs Service. More than 1.2 million rounds of their ammunition, plus explosives and weapons, were stored in a third-floor vault to support their firing range. OSHA worked closely with other government agencies to determine what protective measures were necessary so that the ammunition could be safely removed.
QUOTE (quicknthedead+Apr 17 2007, 05:40 AM)
The sounds on the Hoboken video peak the meter before and during the WTC1 event. These peak levels are distinct.
What is the explanation for them, especially before the event?
What is the explanation for them, especially before the event?
It seems likely that some of the sounds in the Hoboken video are a result of the collapse. The pre-collapse sounds on the other hand have no visible event to associate them with. To make the leap that they must be sounds of pre-planted explosives is irresponsible.
quicknthedead, yes the highest resolution video that I found had no sound, I found the smaller ones later and you indeed only hear the chopper, you don't hear anything at all, even no Sssssssssssssss, like you hear in that wtc2 fireman movie. That is also strange because why would you hear a chopper and no collapsing building, even not the "mechanical" sound.
QUOTE (einsteen+Apr 17 2007, 08:03 AM)
quicknthedead, yes the highest resolution video that I found had no sound, I found the smaller ones later and you indeed only hear the chopper, you don't hear anything at all, even no Sssssssssssssss, like you hear in that wtc2 fireman movie. That is also strange because why would you hear a chopper and no collapsing building, even not the "mechanical" sound.
Einsteen, of course you can hear the collapse sounds. The collapse begins at 31 seconds, and then at 35 seconds you can hear the roar of the collapse.
Einsteen, of course you can hear the collapse sounds. The collapse begins at 31 seconds, and then at 35 seconds you can hear the roar of the collapse.
When I'm back tonight I'm going to watch them again, I have no sound here...
QUOTE (Chainsaw+,Feb 2 2007, 12:26 AM)
Another reason for the Squibs could be, fuel air explosions inside the twin towers core. Since the dense black smoke is essentially carbon dust.
The inside of the buildings is coated with carbon dust that plus small particles of Iron dust from fracturing beams could lead to explosions.
I even agree with you. It is quite possible.
The inside of the buildings is coated with carbon dust that plus small particles of Iron dust from fracturing beams could lead to explosions.
I even agree with you. It is quite possible.
I've never understand those squibs, 50 stories below the demolition zone.
QUOTE (adoucette+Apr 14 2007, 10:32 PM)
Gee an article by Christopher Bollyn, how SWEET.
He's the only 9/11 investigator to have been beaten up and tasered by the cops.
He must be onto something big!
9/11 Investigative Journalist Harassed and Beaten by Undercover Cops
Proof of the
Conspiracy to Injure Bollyn
Malice Exposed - Bollyn Prosecuted for "anti-Israel" Views
Bollyn has consistently pointed out Israel's connections to 9/11.
As his webmaster puts it, 9/11 wasn't an inside job - it was a Zionist job!
He's the only 9/11 investigator to have been beaten up and tasered by the cops.
He must be onto something big!
9/11 Investigative Journalist Harassed and Beaten by Undercover Cops
Proof of the
Conspiracy to Injure Bollyn
Malice Exposed - Bollyn Prosecuted for "anti-Israel" Views
QUOTE
The police video taken by Ofc. John Fitzgerald, whose patrol car was about 30 feet from the scene, certainly caught the entire violent arrest in which two plainclothes officers assaulted me from behind, handcuffed me, broke my right elbow, and TASERed me with a "drive stun" in which the TASER was applied directly to my back while I was held to the ground. The police video tape of the entire incident has been destroyed.
I was charged with resisting arrest and aggravated assault while the police "recycled" the video evidence of their assault.
I recently learned from a source close to the Cook County State's Attorney's office that I am to receive special treatment in my upcoming trial because of my journalism and writings, which are perceived by some as "anti-Israel." Although my charges are misdemeanor offenses of aggravated assault and resisting arrest, I was told that two Jewish prosecutors want to prosecute my case because of my investigative research and writings that they are apparently opposed to.
My source informed me that two Jewish attorneys working for the prosecutor's office want to prosecute my case when it comes to trial on April 23, because of what they perceive to be my "anti-Israel" writings. The source told me that these two prosecutors were attorneys named Rubenstein and Gerber. This was what was going on behind the scenes, he said.
I was shocked, but not surprised, to hear this. This indicates that there is malice against me in my upcoming trial because some of the attorneys working for the Cook County State's Attorney's office disagree with my writings. Furthermore, it shows that these attorneys intend to play a role in the prosecution of my case simply because they are opposed to my political views. Is this blind justice?
Does freedom of speech and thought still exist in America? If I am being prosecuted because of my writing, why don't they charge me a thought crime instead of disguising their malice behind trumped-up charges of my having assaulted three heavily-armed men wearing body armor who were trespassing on my property last August 15?
I was charged with resisting arrest and aggravated assault while the police "recycled" the video evidence of their assault.
I recently learned from a source close to the Cook County State's Attorney's office that I am to receive special treatment in my upcoming trial because of my journalism and writings, which are perceived by some as "anti-Israel." Although my charges are misdemeanor offenses of aggravated assault and resisting arrest, I was told that two Jewish prosecutors want to prosecute my case because of my investigative research and writings that they are apparently opposed to.
My source informed me that two Jewish attorneys working for the prosecutor's office want to prosecute my case when it comes to trial on April 23, because of what they perceive to be my "anti-Israel" writings. The source told me that these two prosecutors were attorneys named Rubenstein and Gerber. This was what was going on behind the scenes, he said.
I was shocked, but not surprised, to hear this. This indicates that there is malice against me in my upcoming trial because some of the attorneys working for the Cook County State's Attorney's office disagree with my writings. Furthermore, it shows that these attorneys intend to play a role in the prosecution of my case simply because they are opposed to my political views. Is this blind justice?
Does freedom of speech and thought still exist in America? If I am being prosecuted because of my writing, why don't they charge me a thought crime instead of disguising their malice behind trumped-up charges of my having assaulted three heavily-armed men wearing body armor who were trespassing on my property last August 15?
Bollyn has consistently pointed out Israel's connections to 9/11.
As his webmaster puts it, 9/11 wasn't an inside job - it was a Zionist job!
QUOTE (quicknthedead+Apr 17 2007, 05:40 AM)
The sounds on the Hoboken video peak the meter before and during the WTC1 event. These peak levels are distinct.
What is the explanation for them, especially before the event?
Buildings on fire can have explosions several common chemical reactions can be explosive when heated.
Explosions do not explosives make, it is a common fallacy to associate explosions with explosives.
I am positive the Reindeer explosion was an inside job, the boiler was inside the steam boat.
http://www.hancockcounty-ky.com/fh5.html
What is the explanation for them, especially before the event?
Buildings on fire can have explosions several common chemical reactions can be explosive when heated.
Explosions do not explosives make, it is a common fallacy to associate explosions with explosives.
I am positive the Reindeer explosion was an inside job, the boiler was inside the steam boat.
QUOTE
Hawesville Cemetery is burial place for thirty-eight passengers of steamboat Reindeer who were killed when a boiler exploded on the Ohio River between Cannelton, Indiana, and Hawesville, March 13, 1854. A gravestone on the northeast edge marks the location where the victims were buried in a mass grave.
Presented by Hancock County Fiscal Court
Presented by Hancock County Fiscal Court
http://www.hancockcounty-ky.com/fh5.html
QUOTE (einsteen+Apr 17 2007, 03:46 AM)
I've never understand those squibs, 50 stories below the demolition zone.
HVAC Return air ducts
HVAC Return air ducts
Agent_X
Christopher Bollyn is an anti-semetic pig who deserves no better treatment that does the KKK with their racist comments.
19 Islamic barbarians hijacked four planes on 911 and flew them into buildings full of inocent people in the name of Allah.
Next you'll be saying it was the Jews who forced those good Christian NAZI to exterminate all those people during WW2.
Grumpy
Christopher Bollyn is an anti-semetic pig who deserves no better treatment that does the KKK with their racist comments.
19 Islamic barbarians hijacked four planes on 911 and flew them into buildings full of inocent people in the name of Allah.
Next you'll be saying it was the Jews who forced those good Christian NAZI to exterminate all those people during WW2.
Grumpy
Grumpy:
When you say "19 Islamic barbarians hijacked four planes on 911 and flew them into buildings full of inocent people in the name of Allah."
Can I ask you a question:
Did Menachem Begin and his Irgun terrorist friends blow up St Davids Hotel on July 22 1946 in the name of Yahweh?
When you say "19 Islamic barbarians hijacked four planes on 911 and flew them into buildings full of inocent people in the name of Allah."
Can I ask you a question:
Did Menachem Begin and his Irgun terrorist friends blow up St Davids Hotel on July 22 1946 in the name of Yahweh?
Is anyone claiming that ANY GROUP (religion, nationality, sex) isn't capable of terroristic acts?
Are you claiming that what this Jewish group did in Palestine 60 years ago has any bearing on 9/11?
If NOT, then WHAT is your point?
Arthur
Are you claiming that what this Jewish group did in Palestine 60 years ago has any bearing on 9/11?
If NOT, then WHAT is your point?
Arthur
NEU-FONZE
Yes.
Grumpy
QUOTE
Did Menachem Begin and his Irgun terrorist friends blow up St Davids Hotel on July 22 1946 in the name of Yahweh?
Yes.
Grumpy
QUOTE (Agent_X+Apr 17 2007, 06:44 AM)
He's the only 9/11 investigator to have been beaten up and tasered by the cops.
Yup, NOW the COOK COUNTY (Chicago) DA's office is IN ON IT.
This begs the question.
WHO ISN'T?
Arthur
PS it appears the screw up was by his own attny.
My first attorney, Jack Smeeton, who I retained near the end of September, refused to file the subpoena although I had given him a well prepared rider demanding all the evidence that the police had regarding my case.
This is how Smeeton, the first attorney of record, through unwarranted inaction sabotaged my case and protected the police by allowing them the time to destroy evidence which he should have requested that they preserve.
Yup, NOW the COOK COUNTY (Chicago) DA's office is IN ON IT.
This begs the question.
WHO ISN'T?
Arthur
PS it appears the screw up was by his own attny.
My first attorney, Jack Smeeton, who I retained near the end of September, refused to file the subpoena although I had given him a well prepared rider demanding all the evidence that the police had regarding my case.
This is how Smeeton, the first attorney of record, through unwarranted inaction sabotaged my case and protected the police by allowing them the time to destroy evidence which he should have requested that they preserve.
Bollyn got into trouble a few years back disrupting one of his local library board meetings. He wanted them to place a holocaust-denier book on the shelves and they refused.
QUOTE (Agent_X+Apr 17 2007, 11:44 AM)
He's the only 9/11 investigator to have been beaten up and tasered by the cops.
He must be onto something big!
9/11 Investigative Journalist Harassed and Beaten by Undercover Cops
[URL=http://www.iamthewitness.com/Bollyn-Proof-of-Conspiracy.html]Proof of the
Conspiracy to Injure Bollyn [/URL]
Malice Exposed - Bollyn Prosecuted for "anti-Israel" Views
Bollyn has consistently pointed out Israel's connections to 9/11.
As his webmaster puts it, 9/11 wasn't an inside job - it was a Zionist job!
Holy mother of god. Now the Israeli's are in on it. So, let me backtrack....
George Bush / *** Cheney did it.
Using a black ops area of the US government that was subsidized by the "uber rich" of the country, then they did what, sub contracted it out to the Israeli's who in turn sub contracted it out to 19 muslim extremists? That would make what, several hundred if not a thousand people involved? and not a peep from any of them?
Have you listened to yourselves lately? First it was a couple of backpack nukes because of the shape of the collapse of the towers. Then it was black ops loading up det. cord disguised as computer cables. Then it was black ops just loading up thermite and cutter charges. Now it is Israeli's and the "uber rich" who just want to get richer.... Or it was George Bush and *** Cheney so they could impose their regime on the US....
And all this was pulled off with slick timing, no goof ups, and even with a thousand investigators, nothing ever found....
But they can't manufacture even one, repeat ONE weapon of mass destruction so that they can justify the war with Iraq.
Have any of you listened to what you are saying? the US government couldn't even evacuate New Orleans with 5 days notice.... How inept can you be?
yet you are convinced that they could pull off 9/11 with millions watching, and the entire place under a microscope.....
Wow.
Man, whatever you are smoking.... Keep it, too much dope for this kid.
He must be onto something big!
9/11 Investigative Journalist Harassed and Beaten by Undercover Cops
[URL=http://www.iamthewitness.com/Bollyn-Proof-of-Conspiracy.html]Proof of the
Conspiracy to Injure Bollyn [/URL]
Malice Exposed - Bollyn Prosecuted for "anti-Israel" Views
Bollyn has consistently pointed out Israel's connections to 9/11.
As his webmaster puts it, 9/11 wasn't an inside job - it was a Zionist job!
Holy mother of god. Now the Israeli's are in on it. So, let me backtrack....
George Bush / *** Cheney did it.
Using a black ops area of the US government that was subsidized by the "uber rich" of the country, then they did what, sub contracted it out to the Israeli's who in turn sub contracted it out to 19 muslim extremists? That would make what, several hundred if not a thousand people involved? and not a peep from any of them?
Have you listened to yourselves lately? First it was a couple of backpack nukes because of the shape of the collapse of the towers. Then it was black ops loading up det. cord disguised as computer cables. Then it was black ops just loading up thermite and cutter charges. Now it is Israeli's and the "uber rich" who just want to get richer.... Or it was George Bush and *** Cheney so they could impose their regime on the US....
And all this was pulled off with slick timing, no goof ups, and even with a thousand investigators, nothing ever found....
But they can't manufacture even one, repeat ONE weapon of mass destruction so that they can justify the war with Iraq.
Have any of you listened to what you are saying? the US government couldn't even evacuate New Orleans with 5 days notice.... How inept can you be?
yet you are convinced that they could pull off 9/11 with millions watching, and the entire place under a microscope.....
Wow.
Man, whatever you are smoking.... Keep it, too much dope for this kid.
QUOTE (Masked Marauder+Apr 17 2007, 05:20 PM)
Holy mother of god. Now the Israeli's are in on it. So, let me backtrack....
George Bush / *** Cheney did it.
Using a black ops area of the US government that was subsidized by the "uber rich" of the country, then they did what, sub contracted it out to the Israeli's who in turn sub contracted it out to 19 muslim extremists? That would make what, several hundred if not a thousand people involved? and not a peep from any of them?
Have you listened to yourselves lately? First it was a couple of backpack nukes because of the shape of the collapse of the towers. Then it was black ops loading up det. cord disguised as computer cables. Then it was black ops just loading up thermite and cutter charges. Now it is Israeli's and the "uber rich" who just want to get richer.... Or it was George Bush and *** Cheney so they could impose their regime on the US....
And all this was pulled off with slick timing, no goof ups, and even with a thousand investigators, nothing ever found....
But they can't manufacture even one, repeat ONE weapon of mass destruction so that they can justify the war with Iraq.
Have any of you listened to what you are saying? the US government couldn't even evacuate New Orleans with 5 days notice.... How inept can you be?
yet you are convinced that they could pull off 9/11 with millions watching, and the entire place under a microscope.....
Wow.
Man, whatever you are smoking.... Keep it, too much dope for this kid.
forget holocaust deniers. what about, 'the reality of massive conspiracies throughout history deniers'.
watergate.
iran/contra.
martin luther king.
kennedy.
jekyll island.
bilderbergers.
and, don't forget, 'steered mass hysteria deniers'..., where whole populations are filled with bloodlust against, ....ANYTHING chosen by the elite.
the inqusitions.
stalin.
kaiser/hitler.
north korea.
post-911 america.
and, what about, "other holocaust ignorers"?
IRAQ
etc.
people have come out from the inside saying it was an inside job, so your argument is a non-starter, anyway. however, it would be no different if all remained silent. that's how the mob works, and IT WORKS.
George Bush / *** Cheney did it.
Using a black ops area of the US government that was subsidized by the "uber rich" of the country, then they did what, sub contracted it out to the Israeli's who in turn sub contracted it out to 19 muslim extremists? That would make what, several hundred if not a thousand people involved? and not a peep from any of them?
Have you listened to yourselves lately? First it was a couple of backpack nukes because of the shape of the collapse of the towers. Then it was black ops loading up det. cord disguised as computer cables. Then it was black ops just loading up thermite and cutter charges. Now it is Israeli's and the "uber rich" who just want to get richer.... Or it was George Bush and *** Cheney so they could impose their regime on the US....
And all this was pulled off with slick timing, no goof ups, and even with a thousand investigators, nothing ever found....
But they can't manufacture even one, repeat ONE weapon of mass destruction so that they can justify the war with Iraq.
Have any of you listened to what you are saying? the US government couldn't even evacuate New Orleans with 5 days notice.... How inept can you be?
yet you are convinced that they could pull off 9/11 with millions watching, and the entire place under a microscope.....
Wow.
Man, whatever you are smoking.... Keep it, too much dope for this kid.
forget holocaust deniers. what about, 'the reality of massive conspiracies throughout history deniers'.
watergate.
iran/contra.
martin luther king.
kennedy.
jekyll island.
bilderbergers.
and, don't forget, 'steered mass hysteria deniers'..., where whole populations are filled with bloodlust against, ....ANYTHING chosen by the elite.
the inqusitions.
stalin.
kaiser/hitler.
north korea.
post-911 america.
and, what about, "other holocaust ignorers"?
IRAQ
etc.
people have come out from the inside saying it was an inside job, so your argument is a non-starter, anyway. however, it would be no different if all remained silent. that's how the mob works, and IT WORKS.
QUOTE (newton+Apr 17 2007, 05:35 PM)
forget holocaust deniers. what about, 'the reality of massive conspiracies throughout history deniers'.
watergate.
iran/contra.
martin luther king.
kennedy.
jekyll island.
bilderbergers.
and, don't forget, 'steered mass hysteria deniers'..., where whole populations are filled with bloodlust against, ....ANYTHING chosen by the elite.
the inqusitions.
stalin.
kaiser/hitler.
north korea.
post-911 america.
and, what about, "other holocaust ignorers"?
IRAQ
etc.
people have come out from the inside saying it was an inside job, so your argument is a non-starter, anyway. however, it would be no different if all remained silent. that's how the mob works, and IT WORKS.
watergate - 10 people involved, maybe
iran/contra - 1 person involved - Ollie North
martin luther king. - A shooter.
kennedy. - A shooter
jekyll island. - ???
bilderbergers - ???
the inqusitions. - out in the public eye, not much hidden
stalin. - out in the public eye, not much hidden
kaiser/hitler. - out in the public eye, not much hidden
north korea. - ????
post-911 america. - ?????
Iraq - Just a ploy to gain control of an oil source (which a good chunk of America agrees with, much to my dismay)
and again, if they could pull off 9/11, then ONE weapon of mass destruction would be a cinch, yes?
MM
watergate.
iran/contra.
martin luther king.
kennedy.
jekyll island.
bilderbergers.
and, don't forget, 'steered mass hysteria deniers'..., where whole populations are filled with bloodlust against, ....ANYTHING chosen by the elite.
the inqusitions.
stalin.
kaiser/hitler.
north korea.
post-911 america.
and, what about, "other holocaust ignorers"?
IRAQ
etc.
people have come out from the inside saying it was an inside job, so your argument is a non-starter, anyway. however, it would be no different if all remained silent. that's how the mob works, and IT WORKS.
watergate - 10 people involved, maybe
iran/contra - 1 person involved - Ollie North
martin luther king. - A shooter.
kennedy. - A shooter
jekyll island. - ???
bilderbergers - ???
the inqusitions. - out in the public eye, not much hidden
stalin. - out in the public eye, not much hidden
kaiser/hitler. - out in the public eye, not much hidden
north korea. - ????
post-911 america. - ?????
Iraq - Just a ploy to gain control of an oil source (which a good chunk of America agrees with, much to my dismay)
and again, if they could pull off 9/11, then ONE weapon of mass destruction would be a cinch, yes?
MM
yellow cake/plame. they tried. turned out, its not a cinch when you lose the advantage of stealth.
kennedy was no one shooter. the government determined there was a second shooter based on acoustic delays during the second committee which looked into it in the seventies.
a court case in 1999 found the FBI responsible for the luther hit.
i think you missed my point about the inquistion, et al. the point is the masses can be easily duped into just about anything through the power of media. that is an open conspiracy.
jekyll island is where the elite conspired succesfully to steal the power of printing money from the citizens of america.
bildebergers meet secretly once a year(the definition of conspiracy). the guest list is eye-opening to say the least. it's not hard to find info on it if you care to look.
kennedy was no one shooter. the government determined there was a second shooter based on acoustic delays during the second committee which looked into it in the seventies.
a court case in 1999 found the FBI responsible for the luther hit.
i think you missed my point about the inquistion, et al. the point is the masses can be easily duped into just about anything through the power of media. that is an open conspiracy.
jekyll island is where the elite conspired succesfully to steal the power of printing money from the citizens of america.
bildebergers meet secretly once a year(the definition of conspiracy). the guest list is eye-opening to say the least. it's not hard to find info on it if you care to look.
Arthur:
You are missing my point!
Grumpy is claiming that "Islamic barbarians" carried out 9/11 - a terrorist act - "in the name of Allah" and, remarkably, that Begin and the Irgun comitted the terrorist act of blowing up the St. Davids Hotel "in the name of Yahweh".
I don't think so!
If you follow Grumpy's logic the Irish catholics who call themselves the IRA comitted their terrorist acts in England and Northern Ireland in the name of the Blessed Virgin Mary!
I think the reality is that 99 % of terrorist acts are committed for political or nationalistic reasons - mainly as retaliation for some kind of foreign occupation.
Besides, the true religious sentiments of the alleged 19 hijackers is unknown, inspite of all the Hollywood-hype about it!
You are missing my point!
Grumpy is claiming that "Islamic barbarians" carried out 9/11 - a terrorist act - "in the name of Allah" and, remarkably, that Begin and the Irgun comitted the terrorist act of blowing up the St. Davids Hotel "in the name of Yahweh".
I don't think so!
If you follow Grumpy's logic the Irish catholics who call themselves the IRA comitted their terrorist acts in England and Northern Ireland in the name of the Blessed Virgin Mary!
I think the reality is that 99 % of terrorist acts are committed for political or nationalistic reasons - mainly as retaliation for some kind of foreign occupation.
Besides, the true religious sentiments of the alleged 19 hijackers is unknown, inspite of all the Hollywood-hype about it!
I see that we are straing a bit off topic here, but i happen to prefer Billy Joel's lyrics to newton's
Harry Truman, Doris Day, Red China, Johnny Ray
South Pacific, Walter Winchell, Joe DiMaggio
Joe McCarthy, Richard Nixon, Studebaker, Television
North Korea, South Korea, Marilyn Monroe
Rosenbergs, H Bomb, Sugar Ray, Panmunjom
Brando, The King And I, and The Catcher In The Rye
Eisenhower, Vaccine, England's got a new queen
Maciano, Liberace, Santayana goodbye
We didn't start the fire
It was always burning
Since the world's been turning
We didn't start the fire
No we didn't light it
But we tried to fight it
Joseph Stalin, Malenkov, Nasser and Prokofiev
Rockefeller, Campanella, Communist Bloc
Roy Cohn, Juan Peron, Toscanini, Dancron
Dien Bien Phu Falls, Rock Around the Clock
Einstein, James Dean, Brooklyn's got a winning team
Davy Crockett, Peter Pan, Elvis Presley, Disneyland
Bardot, Budapest, Alabama, Khrushchev
Princess Grace, Peyton Place, Trouble in the Suez
We didn't start the fire
It was always burning
Since the world's been turning
We didn't start the fire
No we didn't light it
But we tried to fight it
Little Rock, Pasternak, Mickey Mantle, Kerouac
Sputnik, Chou En-Lai, Bridge On The River Kwai
Lebanon, Charles de Gaulle, California baseball
Starkwether, Homicide, Children of Thalidomide
Buddy Holly, Ben Hur, Space Monkey, Mafia
Hula Hoops, Castro, Edsel is a no-go
U2, Syngman Rhee, payola and Kennedy
Chubby Checker, Psycho, Belgians in the Congo
We didn't start the fire
It was always burning
Since the world's been turning
We didn't start the fire
No we didn't light it
But we tried to fight it
Hemingway, Eichman, Stranger in a Strange Land
Dylan, Berlin, Bay of Pigs invasion
Lawrence of Arabia, British Beatlemania
Ole Miss, John Glenn, Liston beats Patterson
Pope Paul, Malcolm X, British Politician sex
J.F.K. blown away, what else do I have to say
We didn't start the fire
It was always burning
Since the world's been turning
We didn't start the fire
No we didn't light it
But we tried to fight it
Birth control, Ho Chi Minh, Richard Nixon back again
Moonshot, Woodstock, Watergate, punk rock
Begin, Reagan, Palestine, Terror on the airline
Ayatollah's in Iran, Russians in Afghanistan
Wheel of Fortune, Sally Ride, heavy metal, suicide
Foreign debts, homeless Vets, AIDS, Crack, Bernie Goetz
Hypodermics on the shores, China's under martial law
Rock and Roller cola wars, I can't take it anymore
We didn't start the fire
It was always burning
Since the world's been turning
We didn't start the fire
No we didn't light it
But we tried to fight it
Harry Truman, Doris Day, Red China, Johnny Ray
South Pacific, Walter Winchell, Joe DiMaggio
Joe McCarthy, Richard Nixon, Studebaker, Television
North Korea, South Korea, Marilyn Monroe
Rosenbergs, H Bomb, Sugar Ray, Panmunjom
Brando, The King And I, and The Catcher In The Rye
Eisenhower, Vaccine, England's got a new queen
Maciano, Liberace, Santayana goodbye
We didn't start the fire
It was always burning
Since the world's been turning
We didn't start the fire
No we didn't light it
But we tried to fight it
Joseph Stalin, Malenkov, Nasser and Prokofiev
Rockefeller, Campanella, Communist Bloc
Roy Cohn, Juan Peron, Toscanini, Dancron
Dien Bien Phu Falls, Rock Around the Clock
Einstein, James Dean, Brooklyn's got a winning team
Davy Crockett, Peter Pan, Elvis Presley, Disneyland
Bardot, Budapest, Alabama, Khrushchev
Princess Grace, Peyton Place, Trouble in the Suez
We didn't start the fire
It was always burning
Since the world's been turning
We didn't start the fire
No we didn't light it
But we tried to fight it
Little Rock, Pasternak, Mickey Mantle, Kerouac
Sputnik, Chou En-Lai, Bridge On The River Kwai
Lebanon, Charles de Gaulle, California baseball
Starkwether, Homicide, Children of Thalidomide
Buddy Holly, Ben Hur, Space Monkey, Mafia
Hula Hoops, Castro, Edsel is a no-go
U2, Syngman Rhee, payola and Kennedy
Chubby Checker, Psycho, Belgians in the Congo
We didn't start the fire
It was always burning
Since the world's been turning
We didn't start the fire
No we didn't light it
But we tried to fight it
Hemingway, Eichman, Stranger in a Strange Land
Dylan, Berlin, Bay of Pigs invasion
Lawrence of Arabia, British Beatlemania
Ole Miss, John Glenn, Liston beats Patterson
Pope Paul, Malcolm X, British Politician sex
J.F.K. blown away, what else do I have to say
We didn't start the fire
It was always burning
Since the world's been turning
We didn't start the fire
No we didn't light it
But we tried to fight it
Birth control, Ho Chi Minh, Richard Nixon back again
Moonshot, Woodstock, Watergate, punk rock
Begin, Reagan, Palestine, Terror on the airline
Ayatollah's in Iran, Russians in Afghanistan
Wheel of Fortune, Sally Ride, heavy metal, suicide
Foreign debts, homeless Vets, AIDS, Crack, Bernie Goetz
Hypodermics on the shores, China's under martial law
Rock and Roller cola wars, I can't take it anymore
We didn't start the fire
It was always burning
Since the world's been turning
We didn't start the fire
No we didn't light it
But we tried to fight it
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